S07.E08: A Housewarming Divided

[RHJunkie]

31 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Lala is another one that can have a seat, by the way.  I took James' comments about her "getting her freak on" and "handstands" as pretty much throwwaway lines going in the mode of the locker room type talk the guys were engaging in, and several other comments about her were made by others.  On the "Vanderpumped" rewatch, though I did catch that he said to Jax, "well, YOU know", to which Jax said "no, no I don't."  Since we know Jax is an inveterate LIAR, it made me wonder (1) if Jax and Lala DID hook up and he doesn't want it to get back to Brittany, as I seem to recall the two were quasi together at the time, or (2) either he or Lala intimated to James at one point that he did.  In either event, the manner in which he described James' comments to Lala seemed downright dishonest.  He made it sound as if James did a matter of fact retelling of Lala's sexual encounters with James, which he did not do.  If Lala should be angry with anyone, it should be Sandoval.  But no, let's make James the villain in all this.  But seriously, the woman who never shuts up about sex, wears a candy penis around her neck at the skating rink and tells people to get their freak on is offended over James saying "handstands"?  Sit down, girlfriend. 

2

Lala is a big ball of hypocrite. For all her power of the pussy and being so pro-woman, she's treated Raquel like absolute trash because she chooses to be with James meanwhile, Racquel has not actually displayed any behaviour that warrants Lala's judgment the way she has dished it out. Lala has called out Jax for being dishonest and being drama but when Jax says something about someone she doesn't like, she doesn't even civilly speak to James about it, she automatically throws out the accusation and is mad as hell about it. Sorry boo, just because you're shacking up with some rich man that perhaps wants to pretend that he's your first and last doesn't make that true and nobody is obligated to play along with your fantasy that no relationship before Randy was truly ever a thing.

[DrSparkles]

2 hours ago, dosodog said:

I agree, Katie is trying, but she has a long way to go.  A very long way to go.

Twitter can be incredibly nasty and I really do think we missed out on a huge chunk of why there was so much anger and hurt and bitterness from everyone involved in Billiegate.

Right now, Katie can't post anything without being dragged all over the place.  People defending James, call her fat, ugly, nasty, etc.  Tell her to get off the show, get a life. I wonder how bad it was in real time.  Because it's really nasty right now.

A fellow poster came up with Herman because it sounded weird for us to call him Myman when he wasn't Ourman.

I'm sad for myself that I understand this sentence.

[IslandGirl]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:12 AM, Jel said:

I think that's fair; I haven't read everything that was tweeted, and it's quite possible that somewhere in that exchange Katie or Lala said something about understanding that this is an especially sensitive issue for Billie (given her history) and expressed regret about not thinking about that at the time. I don't see any perfect behavior in this scenario, Billie gave as good as she got, but would it have killed them to say sorry I didn't think about how their unintentional exclusion could have made Billie feel...at some point... like Ariana did? Maybe they did say that, and good for them if they did. 

But I will say this: I'm a middle-aged, Canadian suburban housewife, and I know what cis-privilege means; the fact that Lala doesn't, or refuses to admit she does, tells me something about her. 

And just in general, I'm done with Herman-as-sacrosanct. If you don't want Herman talked about, I politely suggest you get off my tv. 

I absolutely LOVE this post! Will you marry me?!?!  ;-) 

[gritz]

16 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

The issue isn't so much that Lala is privileged. The issue is whether Lala chooses to act on her privilege or is aware of when she benefits from her privilege when others wouldn't. 

Well, it was obviously an issue for Billie, since she threw out the word while chasing LaLa down. It might've made some sense if she had said it in the context of LaLa having the prerogative of being a millionaire's fiancée, but instead it came off like a non sequitur, or some kind of tic.

6 hours ago, Jel said:

Being excluded from girl stuff is a hot button issue for Billie.

Sure, but Billie has been included in girl stuff, such as the lingerie shopping and the kiki where her date with Jeremy was discussed. It's not like Katie and co. all of a sudden stopped thinking of Billie as female.

Quote

But do any of us really believe that Billie hasn't endured some real pain and hardship because she is trans?

Of course not, and the cast doesn't seem to believe that, either. However, not every dispute Billie has with others stems from transphobia. Sometimes an asshole is just an asshole.

[IslandGirl]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:14 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

One of Ariana’s TH dresses. There’s a diagonal slit across the chest. Blech. It looks like her rightside breast is in a sling or hammock.

I couldn’t follow the Jax/James spat. Did James declare that when Lala wants it, there’s no stopping her; Jax claimed she wanted Jax, but Jax rebuffed her; then James insisted that Jax ultimately relented?

Funny, I absolutely LOVED that dress! :-)  And glad it's not just me; I couldn't follow it either, but I think you hit the nail on the head...

On 1/29/2019 at 6:44 AM, bichonblitz said:

Ariana sure has changed from the girl a season or two ago that hated her vagina, thought it was ugly and didn't like sex to a girl that has no problem climbing in to the back seat of Tom's car with Lala so Lala could go down on her, while Tom is driving! Who is the real Ariana?

The car riding comments to Marina Del Ray were very funny!

Jax seems very serious and pensive this season. I'm not used to this Jax. 

All three guys (Jax, FI and Schwartz) were on WWHL. They all looked incredibly handsome and somewhat grown up. Jax's hate for James is real, though. 

I love this post! I believe Ariana about disliking her vagina because I'm not too crazy about mine either!! Thankfully, my husband has no complaints...

Edited January 30, 2019 by IslandGirl
Lala is not Ariana!

[Judi Sunshine]

I wish people would stop insinuating/flat-out saying that Ariana would get married and want kids, just not with Tom. Not every woman wants those things!

[OnceSane]

I don't think Ariana wants kids or a spouse.  She isn't interested and that's okay.  I do think Tom will eventually move on and have at least the kid less than two years after the breakup.  

[gingerella]

16 hours ago, Jel said:

Being excluded from girl stuff is a hot button issue for Billie.

To be honest, I'd probably not invite Billie either, but it's not because she's trans at all, it's just because she seems like a fucking bitch.

[biakbiak]

It’s unfortunate that with all the Billie drama the fact that Girls Night In is a stupid concept, that they didn’t carry out, and name for an event night has been overshadowed because it’s really dumb.

Edited January 31, 2019 by biakbiak

[yourmomiseasy]

14 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't know what Billie or Katie has said via social media as I don't follow or keep up with either but I think both should be apologizing to each other because both were hurt by actions of the other. Billie isn't justified in insinuating an unfair label onto someone just because she was reacting out of hurt. I think Billie has attempted to address her feelings first in order for them to be acknowledged before she apologizes for how her part came across but wrong is wrong. If either one of them is the bigger person, they should be willing to apologize without the condition of receiving an apology first. They were both wrong and they both need to own it. 

If not explicitly inviting assholes I don't like to events I plan since they'll be there anyway is wrong, then I don't want to be right.  Billie seems to have a knack for making everything into a perceived slight and projecting her issues onto other's actions.  If Billie wasn't so intent on being offended, Katie wouldn't have anything to apologize for.  

Edited January 31, 2019 by yourmomiseasy

[JenE4]

7 hours ago, biakbiak said:

It’s unfortunate that with all the Billie drama the fact that Girls Night In is a stupid concept, that they didn’t carry out, and name for an event night has been overshadowed because it’s really dumb.

That’s a good point about the name. “Girl’s Night In” doesn’t make sense for the attendees because they are having a girl’s night OUT to go there. Henceforth, “Girls Night In” implies that the female stars of the show will be “in da house.” The female stars of the show are Stassi, Katie, Kristin, Lala, Ariana, Brittany, and arguably a special guest appearance by Lisa, who may or may not qualify as a girl in the cast. You know who is NOT a star of the show? Billie, who may possibly be in that group photo of nobodies at the end of the credits, but isn’t throwing a drink or twirling a tray or whatever in slow motion with her name and face featured. In conclusion, your honor, though Billie is a girl, there is no reasonable expectation that she would be included “in” an event featuring the female stars of the show. If the event name don’t fit, you must acquit!

[Jezebel97]

22 hours ago, dosodog said:

I agree, Katie is trying, but she has a long way to go.  A very long way to go.

Twitter can be incredibly nasty and I really do think we missed out on a huge chunk of why there was so much anger and hurt and bitterness from everyone involved in Billiegate.

Right now, Katie can't post anything without being dragged all over the place.  People defending James, call her fat, ugly, nasty, etc.  Tell her to get off the show, get a life. I wonder how bad it was in real time.  Because it's really nasty right now.

A fellow poster came up with Herman because it sounded weird for us to call him Myman when he wasn't Ourman.

it was bad, I saw all the Instagram posts & Twitter comments last year as it was happening which is why their reactions on the episodes are such, it was still raw.

Billie absolutely instigated & fanned the flames against Lala, Katie, Kristen & Stassi

Ariana, & Scheana not as much because they are flip floppers & fence riders

She posted a picture of herself captioned "Stay strong Billie..." so melodramatic 

She also proceeded to delete comments that stood up for the Weho Witches as well as some of her own posts making herself the victim

Yes, technically she did not post that they were transphobic but the implications were there by the sub tweets, re-tweets & likes

& as Lala said, she could have shut the whole thing down at the time but she enjoyed the attention 

I always thought Billie is a thirsty asshole since she first appeared on the show & a non motherfucking factor to me

Has nothing to do with her being trans at all 

And frankly I think that Katie, Kristen & Stassi just did not give her much thought during the Girls Night Out event because she is not their friend 

[Jel]

17 hours ago, gritz said:

Well, it was obviously an issue for Billie, since she threw out the word while chasing LaLa down. It might've made some sense if she had said it in the context of LaLa having the prerogative of being a millionaire's fiancée, but instead it came off like a non sequitur, or some kind of tic.

Sure, but Billie has been included in girl stuff, such as the lingerie shopping and the kiki where her date with Jeremy was discussed. It's not like Katie and co. all of a sudden stopped thinking of Billie as female.

Of course not, and the cast doesn't seem to believe that, either. However, not every dispute Billie has with others stems from transphobia. Sometimes an asshole is just an asshole.

I don't think Katie and Lala are transphobic, more insensitive and self-absorbed.  They are good allies or "woke" right up to the point where it benefits them to be so, but once things get a little messy... 

And once everyone on that show understands that A) No one's emotional pain could ever possibly be worse than Katie's (Katie can lash out at others because she was hurt and she can also be hurt by others because they were hurt by Katie) and B) for the love of God, don't ever talk about Lala's man, there will truly be peace in the valley.

I also think Billie is pretty parched, and probably worked this into as much attention as possible, and she's kind of bossy, and  a try hard, so no heroes in this situation for me, but I think history will judge Katie and Lala as the assholes in this situation, not because of anything Billie tweeted or liked, but because of how they dismissed her feelings.

Looking good: Ariana.

[RHJunkie]

9 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

If not explicitly inviting assholes I don't like to events I plan since they'll be there anyway is wrong, then I don't want to be right.  Billie seems to have a knack for making everything into a perceived slight and projecting her issues onto other's actions.  If Billie wasn't so intent on being offended, Katie wouldn't have anything to apologize for.  

 

Katie wasn't wrong for not inviting her, she was wrong for not acknowledging why Billie felt hurt by Katie's decision...at least that's my take on it. We'll have to agree to disagree if you feel that Billie had no right to feel any kind of way over the matter. Knowing the experience of trans people and the discrimination they face, I'm willing to give Billie the benefit of the doubt that she wasn't intent on being offended just for the sake of being offended but rather her exclusion from planning the event triggered a feeling in Billie even if it was unrelated to Katie's intent. And I still stand by the opinion that Katie was being disingenuous about claiming that she didn't intend to exclude Billie. She did exclude her but for reasons that were unrelated to being trans. I've said time and time again that Billie handled things poorly for sure, but that doesn't make me feel like Katie, Lala or anyone else has an excuse for dismissing Billie's feelings. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by RHJunkie

[Jel]

I feel pretty confident that had Billie taken Katie's side in the James vs. Katie dealy, Katie would have definitely remembered to invite her, and maybe would have even included her in the planning. 

Welcome to covert girl bs, advanced class, Billie. Step one: determine the queen bee.  (Don't choose wrong! )  Step 2: side with her on everything. 

You don't always get to keep your integrity this way, but at least you'll be invited to all the parties.

This message brought to you by Jil, my cynical evil twin. ;)

[Drogo]

2 minutes ago, Jel said:

Welcome to covert girl bs, advanced class, Billie. Step one: determine the queen bee.

And on Wednesdays, we wear pink.

[dosodog]

We do?

No one sent me the memo.. Pardon me while I go on a Twitter Rage Spree.

[Drogo]

31 minutes ago, dosodog said:

No one sent me the memo.. Pardon me while I go on a Twitter Rage Spree.

I'm, like, really angry that you felt the need to say you weren't sent the memo on social media and that you Liked posts that indirectly referred to me as a #NoMemoSender and #MemNo.

Matter of fact, I'm so angry that it doesn't even matter to me that you have a lot of painful memories of not being sent memos in your childhood and that I was semi-aware of your history of being left out of written messages.  I don't care about any of that, because I didn't send this memo to a lot of people and let's face it, my feelings trump their feelings every day and twice on Tuesdays.  And don't tell me I'm memo-privileged because what even is that, I don't care, because it's not a real thing.  And do not come for me.  And do NOT come for my man.   

[dosodog]

Don't you drop the memo card even if you say you're not dropping it! 

And Yourman is safe.  I do practice some kind of girl code, even if I have been wearing the wrong color on Wednesday.

On a side note.....are we making Momoa bi-polar?

Edited January 31, 2019 by dosodog

[FairyDusted]

And the last several posts were much better than the show itself this week. Is it just me that the shine it starting to fade and I don't get fired up during the opening anymore? 

*Sobs* 

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

Katie wasn't wrong for not inviting her, she was wrong for not acknowledging why Billie felt hurt by Katie's decision...at least that's my take on it. We'll have to agree to disagree if you feel that Billie had no right to feel any kind of way over the matter. Knowing the experience of trans people and the discrimination they face, I'm willing to give Billie the benefit of the doubt that she wasn't intent on being offended just for the sake of being offended but rather her exclusion from planning the event triggered a feeling in Billie even if it was unrelated to Katie's intent. And I still stand by the opinion that Katie was being disingenuous about claiming that she didn't intend to exclude Billie. She did exclude her but for reasons that were unrelated to being trans. I've said time and time again that Billie handled things poorly for sure, but that doesn't make me feel like Katie, Lala or anyone else has an excuse for dismissing Billie's feelings. 

I think Katie meant that she didn't mean to exclude Billie specifically. There were plenty of other girls who didn't help plan it. It wasn't a personal slight. 

Also, Billie is 100% entitled to feel hurt; but I just don't buy it. And I don't think they do either. I think she's being disingenuous about why she's upset. For me, it's all about her wanting a bigger role on the show. She doesn't like that main chicks aren't letting her in to their circle. There was some drama with her last year; and she was trying to make the situation more than it was then. Didn't she somehow bring up, or imply, that the girls didn't want her to go out with Jeremy because she was trans - or something? I feel like they just don't trust her at this point and are tired of her drama. 

[yourmomiseasy]

3 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

Katie wasn't wrong for not inviting her, she was wrong for not acknowledging why Billie felt hurt by Katie's decision...at least that's my take on it. We'll have to agree to disagree if you feel that Billie had no right to feel any kind of way over the matter. Knowing the experience of trans people and the discrimination they face, I'm willing to give Billie the benefit of the doubt that she wasn't intent on being offended just for the sake of being offended but rather her exclusion from planning the event triggered a feeling in Billie even if it was unrelated to Katie's intent. And I still stand by the opinion that Katie was being disingenuous about claiming that she didn't intend to exclude Billie. She did exclude her but for reasons that were unrelated to being trans. I've said time and time again that Billie handled things poorly for sure, but that doesn't make me feel like Katie, Lala or anyone else has an excuse for dismissing Billie's feelings. 

Billie is entitled to feel what she wants, but why does Katie have to be responsible for Billie's feelings?  I get mad at some stupid bullshit sometimes, that doesn't mean everyone involved owes me an apology for inadvertently upsetting me.  Also, it's going to take a lot to convince me that someone that talks about pulling the ____ card and starts yelling about ____-privilege at the drop of the hat isn't at least somewhat married into the identity of being a victim and the attention and drama that that brings them.

[hoodooznoodooz]

25 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I think Katie meant that she didn't mean to exclude Billie specifically. There were plenty of other girls who didn't help plan it. It wasn't a personal slight. 

Also, Billie is 100% entitled to feel hurt; but I just don't buy it. And I don't think they do either. I think she's being disingenuous about why she's upset. For me, it's all about her wanting a bigger role on the show. She doesn't like that main chicks aren't letting her in to their circle. There was some drama with her last year; and she was trying to make the situation more than it was then. Didn't she somehow bring up, or imply, that the girls didn't want her to go out with Jeremy because she was trans - or something? I feel like they just don't trust her at this point and are tired of her drama. 

I think Billie told Stassi and Kristen that Jeremy asked her out. They told her that Jeremy got really handsy with Stassi at Katie’s wedding. It seemed to send the message that Jeremy will hit on everyone.

[ghoulina]

39 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I think Billie told Stassi and Kristen that Jeremy asked her out. They told her that Jeremy got really handsy with Stassi at Katie’s wedding. It seemed to send the message that Jeremy will hit on everyone.

Yes. They were trying to warn her off of him. It was Billie's reaction that I was hazy about. I seem to remember her trying to make their words of caution into more than it was. 

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

I think Katie meant that she didn't mean to exclude Billie specifically. There were plenty of other girls who didn't help plan it. It wasn't a personal slight. 

Also, Billie is 100% entitled to feel hurt; but I just don't buy it. And I don't think they do either. I think she's being disingenuous about why she's upset. For me, it's all about her wanting a bigger role on the show. She doesn't like that main chicks aren't letting her in to their circle. There was some drama with her last year; and she was trying to make the situation more than it was then. Didn't she somehow bring up, or imply, that the girls didn't want her to go out with Jeremy because she was trans - or something? I feel like they just don't trust her at this point and are tired of her drama. 

That situation with Jeremy also seemed like a baggage kind of situation much like this one. Trans women dating cis-men can be a risk they take as statistically, it puts them at a higher risk of danger so when someone comes to you and tells you that the guy who's showing interest in you is a creeper who hits on everything that walks, it probably sends up a red flag and probably makes Billie feel insecure that Jeremy isn't interested in her as a person, he's willing to settle for any woman who gives him the time of day. I don't think she interpreted their warning as them associating it with her being trans, I think she was trying to say the way they communicated their warning meant something different to her as a trans woman and she reacted based on that.  I don't think she was trying to imply that Stassi and Kristen were making her being trans as an issue. That's just how I remember it though and I could be misremembering what exactly was said. Also, to be clear, I do think Billie is playing it up for the cameras, but I just don't think she's inventing these feelings for the sake of camera time. I just personally think they are real triggers that she probably would handle differently if there weren't cameras around to play up to and potentially land a full-time spot on the show.

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Billie is entitled to feel what she wants, but why does Katie have to be responsible for Billie's feelings?  I get mad at some stupid bullshit sometimes, that doesn't mean everyone involved owes me an apology for inadvertently upsetting me.  Also, it's going to take a lot to convince me that someone that talks about pulling the ____ card and starts yelling about ____-privilege at the drop of the hat isn't at least somewhat married into the identity of being a victim and the attention and drama that that brings them.

I don't believe acknowledging someone's feelings or even apologizing for hurting someone is taking responsibility for their feelings. I just think it's the decent thing to do when I mean no harm to someone.

I don't agree with her claiming she can pull the trans card but I do think she made a fair point about cis-privilege. Katie wouldn't acknowledge where Billie's reaction was coming from and it's because she's never had to wonder whether someone even questioned the fact that she was a real woman. That is cis-privilege. If you are cis, then it's a privilege you enjoy without ever having to think about it, hence why it's a privilege. The same way white-privilege at its roots isn't intended to say that white people can't face difficulty in their life, but it's unlikely that they ever have to wonder if their struggles are due to their race...can be many factors but the race is among the least likely factors for them. 

And I understand you not necessarily believing Billie is genuine about her feelings but there's still the chance that you are wrong about that and I don't know how to go about addressing that you basically compared Billie's feelings regarding her trans experience (as she explains it) to your experience of sometimes getting mad at 'stupid bullshit'.  So I'm just going to leave that one alone.

[JenE4]

It sounds like Billie needs a good therapist. I mean, she’s far from the only one on the show who does, but she needs to learn that she owns her own reactions. If she’s so easliy triggered by the word “girl” or warnings about creepy dudes or slightly chubby frenemies or fliers/memos without her name, then that’s on her to work through. Sure, in retrospect her friends(?)/coworkers should acknowledge that they didn’t mean to insult her as a woman, but she should at the very least have enough self-awareness to say after the fact that her fear of not being accepted as a woman and experience growing up misgendered really made that a sensitive issue for me, but of course you’ve all been so accepting of me that I never should have implied that it had anything to do with transphobia, yadda-yadda. They ALL should have apologized to each other. How old is Billie? She comes off as young like Lala and James. And, oh boy, before I get memos passed around that I’m age-shaming anyone, I think it’s a pretty normal stage of development to really be overly concerned with what other people are saying about you or think about you and get all caught up in people “making you feel” a certain way, but by the rest of these Pumpers’ ages, you become a bit more internally reflective than externally focused. Scheana is another “young-acting” one seeking constant external validation by men. But I think that’s why this show is starting to get a little boring, otherwise the “kids” are growing up! 

[TattleTeeny]

3 hours ago, FairyDusted said:

And the last several posts were much better than the show itself this week. Is it just me that the shine it starting to fade and I don't get fired up during the opening anymore? 

*Sobs* 

I still love it because I ponder just what in the hell is going on with Scheana in it -- that weird lunge!

[yourmomiseasy]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

And I understand you not necessarily believing Billie is genuine about her feelings but there's still the chance that you are wrong about that and I don't know how to go about addressing that you basically compared Billie's feelings regarding her trans experience (as she explains it) to your experience of sometimes getting mad at 'stupid bullshit'.  So I'm just going to leave that one alone.

Sorry, but getting upset about your name being left off an instragram "flyer" (that you had nothing to do with) is stupid bullshit.

Edited January 31, 2019 by yourmomiseasy

[heatherchandler]

19 hours ago, gingerella said:

To be honest, I'd probably not invite Billie either, but it's not because she's trans at all, it's just because she seems like a fucking bitch.

HAHA!  SAME!  And me neither!

On 1/30/2019 at 8:46 AM, RHJunkie said:

I'll say it again, Billie was dead wrong for the way she addressed her hurt feelings from being excluded and she was dead wrong for retweeting and/or liking tweets that insinuated that Katie and the others were transphobic. That said, Billie seemed to have recognized where she faltered and she attempted to civilly address the issue but she wanted to be clear about her feelings in that moment because that was a legitimate trigger for her. Lala went from 0 to 60 without listening and Katie was completley dismissive and made herself into the victim without acknowledging the role she played in hurting someone else's feelings. It was all about her. If Katie had addressed the issue initially the way Ariana handled it, the problem would have likely de-escalated quickly. And I also felt Katie was being disingenuous by making it seem like Billie's exclusion was simply an oversight. Katie was likely still bitter about Billie's comments to Kristen at brunch and she had no desire to include her. Instead of just saying 'hey, I didn't include you because you pissed me off at brunch with you defending James and blaming Kristen for his behaviour it would have been a more fair representation of where Katie's head was at at the time. She just isn't ringing authentic in the way she's handling this situation which is disappointing because I thought she had taken real steps forward last season but I guess she still needs to work on dealing with issues when she's one of the people at the centre of those issues.  

 

 

I think the only thing Billie realized was that if she wants on the cast - she needs to not be picking fights with all of them.  She will never be a cast member if people don't want to be aruond her.  And she wants on this cast BAD.  

[RHJunkie]

9 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Sorry, but getting upset about your name being left off an instragram "flyer" (that you had nothing to do with) is stupid bullshit.

I get where your position is on the matter and how you're interpreting it but repeating it over and over again is not going to make me agree with your strong conviction that the situation is exactly how you see it. I know people within the community to have heard of their experiences to believe that Billie's 'triggers' are plausible and I'd rather give her the benefit of the doubt that can certainly change the more I see her...just not right now. Again, agree to disagree. There's nothing more to say here that hasn't already been said.

[yourmomiseasy]

2 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I get where your position is on the matter and how you're interpreting it but repeating it over and over again is not going to make me agree with your strong conviction that the situation is exactly how you see it. I know people within the community to have heard of their experiences to believe that Billie's 'triggers' are plausible and I'd rather give her the benefit of the doubt that can certainly change the more I see her...just not right now. Again, agree to disagree. There's nothing more to say here that hasn't already been said.

I was just clarifying that I was not "basically compar[ing] Billie's feelings regarding her trans experience" to stupid bullshit, but rather calling out her histrionics over not being tagged as stupid bullshit.  

I also don't feel the need to apologize to tantrum throwing toddlers when I've hurt their feelings by telling them it's bedtime.  I guess Billie Lee and Katie don't hold the patent on being assholes.

[RHJunkie]

6 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I was just clarifying that I was not "basically compar[ing] Billie's feelings regarding her trans experience" to stupid bullshit, but rather calling out her histrionics over not being tagged as stupid bullshit.  

I also don't feel the need to apologize to tantrum throwing toddlers when I've hurt their feelings by telling them it's bedtime.  I guess Billie Lee and Katie don't hold the patent on being assholes.

Sorry, that was purely my fault - I don't even recall reading the specific part of my comment that you quoted - I read it like as a standalone comment. It makes more sense when I read the select quote and then your response. And to clarify, I assumed you didn't mean to genuinely make the comparison, but since there's a differentiation between how Billie explains herself versus what you believe is the issue, the lack of context made it read that way.

I also don't feel that apologizing is the only option available. You can acknowledge someone's feelings or 'tantrum' without having to apologize for it. Yes, an apology is the easiest way to quash an issue that you didn't mean to get out of hand but I also don't think an apology is necessary in order to maturely handle a situation. What's wrong with saying 'I acknowledge your feelings and understand that there are reasons that may have made you feel that way but that wasn't my intention and it's completely unacceptable and unfair that you wouldn't talk to me first about it...instead you ran to Twitter and made into something it's not and now social media is calling me transphobic'. Truthfully that's how I would handle a child with a tantrum. I wouldn't ignore them because many of them will just become more and more outrageous to get a reaction. I'd acknowledge them but also let them know that shit ain't going to work with me.

[yourmomiseasy]

Fair enough

[gingerella]

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I think the only thing Billie realized was that if she wants on the cast - she needs to not be picking fights with all of them.  She will never be a cast member if people don't want to be aruond her.  And she wants on this cast BAD.  

^THIS^ times a bazillion! From what I've seen of Billie, she's got a major chip on her shoulder and an axe to grind with anyone who she perceives to be slighting her, even if the person(s) in question aren't even remotely thinking/doing that. I get the vibe from her that she feels entitled to be a lead cast member on VR because SUR, Pump & TomTom are in WestHo and she feels that she needs to be the representative for transfolks on that cast. Mind you, the entire cast seems straight, most of the time, so one would take pause and wonder why there aren't any LGBTQ cast members given the location of most of Lisa's establishments. That said, the show isn't really about the LGBTQ community, is it? It's about a small, insular group of now-30-somethings who are infatuated with themselves, have an over inflated sense of self/ego, play musical fuck chairs with one another, and just want to be famewhores. The last bit being the quickest way to living a fake ass life of luxury-branded bullshit. And that's what I think Billie really wants in to. She seems to keep playing her trans card to Lisa and the cast, bemoaning being left out, etc. She's a hostess, yes? So she's literally the face of SUR because she's the first person you see when you walk in the door. That should be a big deal to her, as a representative of the trans community, but it seems like it's not enough, because it's not getting her on to the main cast. She's a wannabe famewhore who's watched VR and the HoWives franchises just enough to realize that making a stink, picking fights all the time, and being controversial will get you airtime (see: waste of carbon Brandy Glanville). So in conclusion, I think for all Billie's bitching and moaning, she's really just after the cheap famewhore opportunities that come with being a full cast member. Her complaining is getting way old, and she comes off as highly disingenuous to me.

[smores]

5 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I also don't feel that apologizing is the only option available. You can acknowledge someone's feelings or 'tantrum' without having to apologize for it. Yes, an apology is the easiest way to quash an issue that you didn't mean to get out of hand but I also don't think an apology is necessary in order to maturely handle a situation. What's wrong with saying 'I acknowledge your feelings and understand that there are reasons that may have made you feel that way but that wasn't my intention and it's completely unacceptable and unfair that you wouldn't talk to me first about it...instead you ran to Twitter and made into something it's not and now social media is calling me transphobic'. Truthfully that's how I would handle a child with a tantrum. I wouldn't ignore them because many of them will just become more and more outrageous to get a reaction. I'd acknowledge them but also let them know that shit ain't going to work with me.

Isn't that kind of what Lisa did with Billie though? She pretty much sat there and said that she understood that she felt left out and why, but that the other girls weren't coming from a bad place.  That they hadn't done it on purpose and that it wasn't fair to make it a transphobic issue.  And Billie flatly rejected it and said she was going to any time she wanted to because Katie was fat?

[HunterHunted]

8 minutes ago, smores said:

Isn't that kind of what Lisa did with Billie though? She pretty much sat there and said that she understood that she felt left out and why, but that the other girls weren't coming from a bad place.  That they hadn't done it on purpose and that it wasn't fair to make it a transphobic issue.  And Billie flatly rejected it and said she was going to any time she wanted to because Katie was fat?

But wasn't Billie's talk with LVP during the actual event? Do we honestly think if Billie tried to have the type of conversation she later had with Ariana or Katie at the at the skating rink during the Girl's Night In that Katie wouldn't have flipped out too? The harm was too fresh for either of them to act like reasonable people at that time.

[biakbiak]

24 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

But wasn't Billie's talk with LVP during the actual event? Do we honestly think if Billie tried to have the type of conversation she later had with Ariana or Katie at the at the skating rink during the Girl's Night In that Katie wouldn't have flipped out too? The harm was too fresh for either of them to act like reasonable people at that time.

Lisa wasn’t at the event. Her convo with Billie was during the day a few days after it.

[smores]

I think that once Billie took the situation public, and started retweeting and liking people calling Katie and the others transphobic, then it's basically on Billie to resolve the situation.  Fundamentally this is a situation where Billie has imagined a motive that just wasn't there, which is something that everyone does from time to time.  So the normal thing to do is either figure out whether it's an actual issue (was I the only person not involved in the planning? did everyone else get invited? No? No? Oh, maybe it wasn't an actual exclusion and I'm being overly sensitive), or, go to the person and talk to them about it.  This would be a bit of a tricky situation, though, since Billie had just been a bitch to Katie and Kristin at her brunch (which, did she invite them?), for basically no real reason.  Even if she wasn't a fan of Kristin being at SUR because of James, she doesn't get to make that decision, so just don't approach the table.  

Instead of dealing with the situation in a constructive way, Billie took it public and basically lobbed a grenade at the others.  That's not cool, and had someone done that to me, it would really color how I dealt with them in the future.  They clearly have to interact because of work (the show), but, beyond being cordial, I'd have very little to do with the person.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I don't understand how this cast has sex with each other constantly and then just hang out like it's normal (including hetero relationships).  I have zero friends that I randomly go down on and if I did I would constantly be thinking about it and feel awkward in front of other people.  I know there have probably been men on men hook-ups and they don't talk about those and it seems unbalanced to be able to talk about how the women have been intimate together.  It's like on Southern Charm how no one cares if all the men sleep around but Kathryn is a whore. 

Also, was FI sober when he was driving?  I don't know why anyone thinking clearly who was clearly so possessive of their significant other would just be like "okay go do that".  I wonder if Herman watched this episode and is embarrassed.  There seems to be more to the story regarding this night. 

[jkitty]

12 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I was just clarifying that I was not "basically compar[ing] Billie's feelings regarding her trans experience" to stupid bullshit, but rather calling out her histrionics over not being tagged as stupid bullshit.  

I also don't feel the need to apologize to tantrum throwing toddlers when I've hurt their feelings by telling them it's bedtime.  I guess Billie Lee and Katie don't hold the patent on being assholes.

Actually, as a person currently living toddler tantrums on the regular, pretty much all parenting advice states that one of the best and most productive ways to deal with tantrums is to acknowledge the child’s distress and help them describe and process their feelings. They are having a tantrum because they are overwhelmed by their emotions and do not have the mental or verbal capacity to describe and process this. As a parent, it’s our job to teach them this. It actually works really well. For example, you (staying calm because you are an adult and understand the tantrum is not a personal attack on you) say “I know you are upset that it’s bedtime. You want to keep playing. That is making you sad and angry. It’s hard. And that’s ok. Your body needs sleeps though so you can play even more tomorrow. It will feel good.”  Usually by this time my toddler has chilled out. 

[Adira]

Billie's got a blog post about how the Girl's Night thing was the biggest trigger of her life.

http://itsmebillielee.com/2019/01/22/the-biggest-trigger-of-my-life-girls-night/

[RHJunkie]

10 hours ago, smores said:

Isn't that kind of what Lisa did with Billie though? She pretty much sat there and said that she understood that she felt left out and why, but that the other girls weren't coming from a bad place.  That they hadn't done it on purpose and that it wasn't fair to make it a transphobic issue.  And Billie flatly rejected it and said she was going to any time she wanted to because Katie was fat?

She may have rejected it because it came from Lisa who had nothing to do with the matter anyway. When Ariana, who was involved in the planning, acknowledged Billie's feelings but also pointed out that she handled the situation poorly, Billie accepted it. It was after Ariana spoke up that Billie approached both Lala and Katie more level-headed and acknowledged that she handled the situation poorly but then quickly got defensive because both women jumped to the transphobic comments online while Billie was trying to more calmly explain why she was triggered. It just all seemed to denigrate into two sides feeling hurt and unwilling to hear the other side until their feelings were acknowledged first. While Katie had the power to quash the issue after Billie stupidly ran to Twitter, Billie also had the power to quash it at Sur but she just fanned the flames because she wasn't willing to admit that going to social media was a bad idea and she also didn't take responsibility for liking comments that in some way or another implied that Katie is transphobic. Even if her intent was to like the comments because of the #transisbeautiful component, it was shitty of her not to acknowledge how compounded the issue further by liking those tweets.

[Diane Mars]

4 hours ago, Adira said:

Billie's got a blog post about how the Girl's Night thing was the biggest trigger of her life.

http://itsmebillielee.com/2019/01/22/the-biggest-trigger-of-my-life-girls-night/

So can I say "Trans-privilege" as in "I'm always the victim, and as I'm a part of a minority, I'm entitled to it, and you're not, because you don't what what it is being transgender, you Cis-woman ?" (And that's really what's summarize the best my feelings regarding this issue with Billie's attitude and way of spinning things to her profit)

If you read it, it's "me", "me", "my feelings", "I", etc... Please ! You're not such a special snowflake, Billie ! The world doesn't revolve around you, you're not 3 y.o anymore....

ETA : if we're 100% responsible for what we say and how we act/react, we're NOT responsible for how "YOU" take it and what "you" feel ! That's ON "YOU".
#youdonthavethepowertochangethingsbutyouhavethepowertochangeyourtakeonit

Edited February 1, 2019 by Diane Mars

[hoodooznoodooz]

3 hours ago, Adira said:

Billie's got a blog post about how the Girl's Night thing was the biggest trigger of her life.

http://itsmebillielee.com/2019/01/22/the-biggest-trigger-of-my-life-girls-night/

Thanks for linking. So now, in my opinion, what triggered Billie was not so much finding out that Katie didn’t include/tag her wrt GNI, but reading in the public comments 

Why wasn’t Billie included?

Because she’s not a real girl. 

[Drogo]

Just now, hoodooznoodooz said:

Thanks for linking. So now, in my opinion, what triggered Billie was not so much finding out that Katie didn’t include/tag her wrt GNI, but reading in the public comments 

Why wasn’t Billie included?

Because she’s not a real girl. 

I'm told Instagram and Twitter both give you the option to delete unwanted comments on your posts.  So if BL saw these "She's not a real girl" comments and called/texted all of her coworkers and they still didn't delete those offensive comments... then they're more in the wrong than I thought.

[ghoulina]

20 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

HAHA!  SAME!  And me neither!

 

I think the only thing Billie realized was that if she wants on the cast - she needs to not be picking fights with all of them.  She will never be a cast member if people don't want to be aruond her.  And she wants on this cast BAD.  

Agreed. Given all her past behavior, I just didn't feel authenticity during that "apology". I think she is just trying all the different angles to make her relevant and a full-time cast member. 

[heatherchandler]

9 hours ago, jkitty said:

Actually, as a person currently living toddler tantrums on the regular, pretty much all parenting advice states that one of the best and most productive ways to deal with tantrums is to acknowledge the child’s distress and help them describe and process their feelings. They are having a tantrum because they are overwhelmed by their emotions and do not have the mental or verbal capacity to describe and process this. As a parent, it’s our job to teach them this. It actually works really well. For example, you (staying calm because you are an adult and understand the tantrum is not a personal attack on you) say “I know you are upset that it’s bedtime. You want to keep playing. That is making you sad and angry. It’s hard. And that’s ok. Your body needs sleeps though so you can play even more tomorrow. It will feel good.”  Usually by this time my toddler has chilled out. 

I am glad this works for you and your kids, but mine would never even listen to me past "I know you are upset..."  I IGNORE all tantrums and within a minute my kids cut it out.  They just want ATTENTION!  But if I let them think that a tantrum is the way to get it, I am not doing them any favors.  I ignore until they stop and then when they are calm, we can discuss.

 

2 hours ago, Diane Mars said:

So can I say "Trans-privilege" as in "I'm always the victim, and as I'm a part of a minority, I'm entitled to it, and you're not, because you don't what what it is being transgender, you Cis-woman ?" (And that's really what's summarize the best my feelings regarding this issue with Billie's attitude and way of spinning things to her profit)

If you read it, it's "me", "me", "my feelings", "I", etc... Please ! You're not such a special snowflake, Billie ! The world doesn't revolve around you, you're not 3 y.o anymore....

ETA : if we're 100% responsible for what we say and how we act/react, we're NOT responsible for how "YOU" take it and what "you" feel ! That's ON "YOU".
#youdonthavethepowertochangethingsbutyouhavethepowertochangeyourtakeonit

Thank you!  I realized a long time ago that no one cares about how I feel (generally speaking) and that is ok.  I will deal with what comes my way.  I do not expect others to jump through hoops to make me feel better.  Anything I experience is part of life, I cannot expect an apology every time I am upset.

 

6 hours ago, Adira said:

Billie's got a blog post about how the Girl's Night thing was the biggest trigger of her life.

http://itsmebillielee.com/2019/01/22/the-biggest-trigger-of-my-life-girls-night/

 

Oh my god my eyes just rolled out of my head.  She is a crazy person.

As I tell my kids - "life is not fair, deal with it."

[CharethCutestory]

Anyone else feel like this show has jumped the shark? Everything is so obviously staged and any interesting, more legit moments are edited within an inch of their life to suggest something other than what's actually happening. I think its in an effort to safeguard the reputations of the veteran cast members, and even then they're true unlikable colors shine through. The Billie Lee/Lala housewarming fight and Stassi's birthday meltdown come to mind, there was way more to those scenes we didn't see but should have since cameras were rolling. I've only caught about a third of this season as it only interests me enough to tune in sporadically and then barely keeps my attention. The cast being "famous" and so sickeningly full of themselves (they were already deluded ego maniacs when they were nobodies), is no fun anymore. They're 30 somethings still acting like immature early twenty somethings with a wedding or joke of a marriage peppered in here and there. James being everybody's villain is forced and boring and again only a ploy to make the vets look less awful. Ganging up on Raquel, the most passive person other than Peter ever featured, because she's being cheated on is inane and 100% hypocritical of all of them. Don't get me started on Jax's "reformation." That puke is as much of a sociopathic dirtbag as he's always been and every time he opens his mouth he proves his act will never change. Don't feed me beer cheese and tell me it's caviar, show. 

Conversely, Below Deck was fantastic this season. And even the not so great Below Deck Med was better than VPR. BD has an element of vintage Real World that comes from seasonal cast changes, the cast working, which provides varying scenarios, and a few staples like Kate, Captain Lee and Chef Ben being great TV due to their wit and remaining down to earth. Once VPR hit season three and it was clear none of these people worked at SUR anymore and drama was being overtly manufactured, the show started its decline and has now become a carefully curated bore of collagen infused instagram influencers in motion. At the same time they lack any major balls to the wall drama and craziness like much of the Real Housewives have. Jersey, for example, is bringing the drama like it's the first or second season. It's in its ninth. The frequent cast revamps, like BD, helps to keep RH fresh. VPR is lacking in every aspect that makes a reality show worth watching. It either needs to be be voyeuristically real  or over the top dramatics. Beverly Hills seems to have recognized this and infused a turbo shot of drama into the upcoming season because the last two were coma inducing. 

So, long winded rant coming to a close, I think they need to restructure or spin off VPR with an unknown, new cast.  If they want to keep featuring the originals I'd put them into a different formula. If I were Andy (I wi$$$$h), keep Stassi, she's problematic at times but other than LVP she is the show, and at least she's intelligent and capable of humor. Put her in her own spinoff with Beaux, focusing on her growing career, etc. Put Lala on Real Housewives, I despise her but I wouldn't mind seeing how her shallow layer of bravado fares against those seasoned pros. And have James anchor the new cast of people. Everyone else, cut 'em loose. We can still see them pop in and out as friends of on the other shows. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by CharethCutestory

[Neveragain]

2 hours ago, CharethCutestory said:

Once VPR hit season three and it was clear none of these people worked at SUR anymore and drama was being overtly manufactured, the show started its decline and has now become a carefully curated bore of collagen infused instagram influencers in motion.

Omg this is poetry! And undeniably true. Great post