S04.E13: Man of Worth

[FnkyChkn34]

I don't know if anyone said this yet or not, but the best part of this entire season was the look on Sam/Jamie's face when he realized his aunt and his godfather are doing a little bow-chicka-bow-wow. 

[Cdh20]

38 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I don't know if anyone said this yet or not, but the best part of this entire season was the look on Sam/Jamie's face when he realized his aunt and his godfather are doing a little bow-chicka-bow-wow. 

CountryGirl posted a great gif of it on page 2 of this thread!

[Moxie Cat]

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

 

I don't know if anyone said this yet or not, but the best part of this entire season was the look on Sam/Jamie's face when he realized his aunt and his godfather are doing a little bow-chicka-bow-wow. 

 

Yes! I only caught it on the second viewing. But it is gold, as is his glance at Claire, and she's like, "I dunno!" Great side eye all around.

Just LOVE Ian's beaming smiles at the end of the gauntlet. I can understand why another poster said it looked like another actor. I realized we rarely ever saw Ian so happy! Really a wonderful cap to that sequence, to realize that this was actually the right and happy choice for him. And the show did a great job thoughout the season, showing his interest in the Indians, learning the language....much better deal for the Mohawk than Dogface! Seriously, they totally lucked out there.

The only way I can get behind the Bree/Roger reunion is: 1) she's super-happy to see someone she cares about, the (likely) father of her child, and a man who will marry her in this day and age return to her, and 2) he badly needs a hug and to feel like he belongs with someone who genuinely cares about him. It's OK. I can get behind the idea that they have built the idea of each other up in their hearts over the past year.

But for my money (as a book skimmer), the show badly developed the relationship. We didn't see the relationship after the Christmas kiss on the couch. The next thing we saw was an awkward airport kiss, followed by a weird vacation that ended in a fight, followed by a year or more of estrangement, and then they're in the past and he's desperately trying to find her (while we see no Roger-pining from her). Even her letter is devoid of any real endearment. 

They seem like the opposite of Jamie and Claire, who fell in love due to being in close proximity and recognizing their chemistry and each other's strengths. Bree and Roger are like the opposite: they seem to idealize each other, without really knowing the other person very well or being actually in love with that person. (I still can't get over that Roger didn't seem to expect Bree to finish college when he knew how educated her parents were, and presumably, how smart she was.)

Oddly, though, I did buy the reunion scene, only because each of them had their own desperate reasons to see the other one. I think I'd feel the same about any dear friend in the same situation.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Moxie Cat

[pootlus]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I didn't mind the "running into each other's arms" scene of Brianna and Roger (although I rolled my eyes a little) but Brianna must have bionic eyes to recognize Roger riding towards the house at that distance. I sure as hell wouldn't be able to tell who it was from that far away.

Ahaha I thought this too - I actually said "Wow, she has really good eyesight!" at the TV when all she could see of Roger was a small silhouette under a tree!

Wee Ian - sigh. I am going to miss him, but I'll look forward to seeing his transformation when he comes back in - is it book 6?  Knowing that he (and Rollo) are going to be basically okay (if changed) is the only thing that kept me from bawling when he was saying goodbye to Jamie and Claire.

Murtagh and Jocasta was telegraphed a mile off, but I still did a little jig of glee when they hooked up.  I'm interested to see where the Murtagh-as-regulator story puts him and Jamie against each other (even if only for show) next year.  I hope they ditch the hanging of Roger storyline.  I can see TV watchers going "wait, he's going to be basically tortured all over again!?!"

I wanted to see what happened to that exiled Mohawk.  I liked her and would like to see more of her - maybe she could make her way to Fraser's Ridge, if only to have a resolution to her storyline.

5 hours ago, ruby24 said:

So, yup. That's 1960's American-raised Brianna's attitude towards seeing slavery up close. Surprise that she didn't feel the guilt she thought she would. Kinda shameful, frankly. I actually did think they'd show her to at least be uncomfortable with it on the show.

I adore Phaedre, she's so sweet to Bree, and Ulysses' facial expressions make him steal every scene he is in.  Regarding her attitude, I think Bree is either comfortable with slavery (presumably because they're being treated comparatively well) or has convinced herself that they are more like servants than slaves.  Either way she certainly seems to have got used to it quickly in a way that Claire never really seemed to get comfortable with (or maybe because Claire bosses everyone around regardless of social status).    

5 hours ago, AEMom said:

Bree has never been the most likable character in the books.

She isn't, which really surprised me when I read them, wondering why I was supposed to feel sympathy for her.  Mind you I liked her a lot better than I did Book!Roger, who is just a total prick.  TV!Roger is much better although he does have prickish moments, Rik's portrayal is what makes TV!Roger appealing to me.

I also don't have that big an issue with Sophie's acting.  I do think she's really struggling with the American accent though.

[TaurusRose]

6 hours ago, Hannah Lee said:

On a side note, while I know they were pressed for time this episode, but the episode would have been stronger if they had added quick scenes, or even a line of dialogue to indicate what happened to the Mohawk who was banished (or even that Claire and Jamie felt any guilt that their actions had led to that), where Roger has been (book readers know, but non-book readers don't) how he knew to go to River Run, that Jamie got to hold his grandson, that Brianna had forgiven Jamie and come to understand him more.  Those were all emotional beats that were missing, or niggling "wait, what?" moments that didn't have to be there.

See, this kind of stuff doesn’t bother me. I assumed Roger needed to give the situation a lot of thought. Basically, I don’t care where he was only that he made it to River Run, assured Bree that he loved her, and accepted the child as his son. Ditto for Jamie holding his grandson. I know that baby had been in Jamie’s arms, it would have been nice to see it, but it didn’t ruin my enjoyment of the episode because I didn’t.

I do agree that J&C could have shown some concern for the woman banished from her village because she tried to help them, but honestly it’s not shocking that they didn’t. It’s always about them and their pain to the exclusion of “the other.” I also agree with you about Bree. I would have preferred to see that over Jamie holding the baby, but she did call him Da so there’s that.

[Nidratime]

Quote

I do agree that J&C could have shown some concern for the woman banished from her village because she tried to help them, but honestly it’s not shocking that they didn’t.

The lady banished was done so amidst Jamie and Clarie's "negotiation" of Roger's release. They weren't going to abandon everything to run after her. Who knows where she went after they left or whether they could afford the time searching for her. It's possible she went to another village with Native Americans who were willing to take her in and who were not great pals with the elders of her tribe.

[Scarlett45]

On 1/27/2019 at 10:50 AM, Ziggy said:

I thought that was kind of the point.  At the beginning of the season Brianna wasn't sure of her feelings for Roger.  He followed her back to the 18th Century, and she realized just how much he had done for her and how much he loved her, and that was a turning point for her.  She is soon raped, finds her father and has time at the Ridge to think about things and realize how much she does love him.  All this time she things he left her and returned to the 20th century only to find that her own father had beaten him to within and inch of his life and her cousin sold him into slavery.  And still, he returned to her.  How much more deserved could her feelings possibly be?

They've both been through hell and back (and have more hell yet to come).  But they are finally together and both want the same thing.

I don't care how "cliche" her running to him was.  I thought it spoke volumes about her feelings for him.

That’s how I took it too. I thought Roger was a slut shaming douche more than anyone (and yes he was a slut shaming douche), BUT he did follow Brianna through the stones, and even after they fought (cause he was being an ass) he did find gem stones for them to go home together, and AFTER being enslaved and tortured, then being told that committing to a life with Brianna and the baby* means he won’t be returning to the 20th century any time soon, he chose Brianna. 

Roger is flawed and controlling and annoys me to no end, but he does love Brianna and the baby and is committed to being with them and protecting both of them. Obviously Brianna loves him too, hence the dramatic music- I think it fits. 

 

*I didn’t see Roger’s hesitation as thinking Brianna was “damaged goods” for being raped, that wasn’t his thought process at all. Her having a child that might be his not being able to go HOME, is what gave him pause. Given the pure physical torture and emotional upheaval regarding all he had been through I think the guy did deserve some time to think about it. It wasn’t analogous to a situation of them being happy and well adjusted in the 20th century, Brianna being raped and becoming pregnant- acting that way then would’ve made him a douche. 

[Nidratime]

Quote

*I didn’t see Roger’s hesitation as thinking Brianna was “damaged goods” for being raped, that wasn’t his thought process at all. Her having a child that might be his not being able to go HOME, is what gave him pause. Given the pure physical torture and emotional upheaval regarding all he had been through I think the guy did deserve some time to think about it. It wasn’t analogous to a situation of them being happy and well adjusted in the 20th century, Brianna being raped and becoming pregnant- acting that way then would’ve made him a douche. 

And isn't it kind of refreshing to find a person who traveled to the past who doesn't want to stay there? (Which is what every viewer has said they would want to do, i.e., not stay!) Claire wanted to stay, Geillis wanted to stay, Otter Tooth, apparently, wanted to stay, and Brianna has shown no desire one way or the other.

[Moxie Cat]

29 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

And isn't it kind of refreshing to find a person who traveled to the past who doesn't want to stay there? (Which is what every viewer has said they would want to do, i.e., not stay!) Claire wanted to stay, Geillis wanted to stay, Otter Tooth, apparently, wanted to stay, and Brianna has shown no desire one way or the other.

Too true. I wouldn't. In Brianna's case, though, we've been given no reason for her to want to go back to the 1970s. Both her parents, and now her husband, are in the past. What is there for her in the present? We haven't seen that she has a job or any modern career goals. (Is anything like that in the book? We certainly haven't seen it in the show.) Jamie and Claire have talked about Brianna returning while pregnant but Roger was always the main issue. And it's not like Bree ever said, "yeah - toilets!" She's been completely vague about returning. Now that there's a baby, I guess that convo will never happen or is a long way off, but it would be nice to have a scene where Claire said, "Do you really want to stay?"

[WatchrTina]

8 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

And it's not like Bree ever said, "yeah - toilets!"

Well actually, she said that very thing -- when she and Claire were taking in the washing and naming out loud the things they miss.  The last one was "Toilets . . . that flush!"  

I don't think it was ever Brianna's intention to stay in the past.  She just came to warn them about the fire . . . and to meet her biological father.  I always assumed she planned to go back to the future (and to Roger).  She left him that note in case something bad happened and she wasn't able to return.  She cared enough about him to do that. But I think she was counting on him being there, in the future, as her emotional anchor -- the thing that would steer her home when the time came to return.  That's why she was so freaked out to see him in the past.  His having followed her might make it impossible for her to go back.  Who does she have left to "aim" for?  Her roommate Gail?  I don't think that's a very strong anchor.

Edited January 29, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Ziggy]

9 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

10 hours ago, ruby24 said:

The moment where Bree runs to Roger would have been more effective if anyone cared about Brianna/Roger

 

For the record, I care.  And I don't think I'm alone in that.

You are definitely not alone.

[Cloudberryjam]

15 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Of all the actors in the world, where did they find the guy who plays Roger? He has zero sex appeal and negative chemistry with Bree. He makes me wonder what Bree could have possibly seen in him. 

I have been watching A Discovery of Witches, with Matthew Goode (late of Downton and The Crown) and  I saw someone elsewhere say he was their dream casting for Roger. Now THAT is a Roger that I could understand Brees attraction to, and he would have been a perfect nerdy historian-type.  Sorry but I also find Riks Roger so unappealing—I kept yelling at Brianna “Just find another 18th c guy or marry Lord John!”  

Btw Sam did an interview w Bazaar and he said he and Cait are asking for more creative control over the show and their characters going forward! Heres hoping they get it!!

Welp off to finish The Fiery Cross! See you all next year!! Happy Droughtlander!

[Nidratime]

Matthew Goode is about 4 years older than Richard and looks it, to me.

On a completely separate note, I was looking at Richard Rankin's wikipedia page and it lists him as "actor, comedian". I wonder if he's ever done stand-up, or does that moniker just refer to comedic roles in shows/movies?

Edited January 29, 2019 by Nidratime

[Ziggy]

On 1/27/2019 at 7:54 AM, Ziggy said:

Murtagh and Jocasta :-)  (Can't believe the writers thought no one would see that coming.)

 

On 1/27/2019 at 11:36 AM, SoTheresThat said:

They don't give us much credit, do they?

Did they not realize that many book fans have been speculating ever since the "save Murtagh" campaign began?

Edited January 30, 2019 by Ziggy

[GHScorpiosRule]

Though I find Goode attractive and a good (pardon the pun!) actor, physically, he doesn't look anything like Roger. If I recall correctly, Roger is almost as tall as Jamie, and muscular-ish. Goode is more on the lean and wiry side. 

Another thing that made me smile in the episode was seeing Sam using Jamie's physical ticks, if you will--my favorite, Jamie's tapping his fingers. This time, it was against his wine glass at dinner. I love how he infuses little things like that. Or how, since he's right-handed himself, would use his left hand for certain things because Jamie is left-handed.

Edited January 29, 2019 by GHScorpiosRule

[Ziggy]

11 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

But for my money (as a book skimmer), the show badly developed the relationship. We didn't see the relationship after the Christmas kiss on the couch. The next thing we saw was an awkward airport kiss, followed by a weird vacation that ended in a fight, followed by a year or more of estrangement, and then they're in the past and he's desperately trying to find her (while we see no Roger-pining from her). Even her letter is devoid of any real endearment.

To be fair, I don't think Diana developed their romance in the books.  Maybe that's why it doesn't bother me in the tv show.  I think the writers could have chosen to add to the Roger/Bree story and flesh out the romance a little, but they chose to stick with the book.

I think another reason it doesn't bother me is that their romance is so much more normal than Jamie and Claire's.  Bree and Roger (aside from the time travel) go through the things that most couple go through.  Their romance is very relatable.  Jamie and Claire's romance is pure fantasy.

[Summer]

I've been a fan of Richard Rankin's since before Outlander and if you watch any of his other work he definitely can manage chemistry with his female co-stars (The Crimson Field and The Syndicate specifically)  but I have to agree that he and Sophie just don't have chemistry as Roger and Bree. 

I think other posters may have a point that she has trouble managing the accent and acting, although I think the one thing she DOES do well is portray anger (since it seems like Bree IS angry half the time lol!) I read an article about Sophies audition with Caitriona and the scene they did was the big fight between Claire and Bree when Claires tells her about Jamie.  I wonder if the casting directors were looking at Sophie fitting the bill more as the fiery tempered daughter of Jamie vs Roger love interest?   Also, Sophie said she didn't hear anything for a full year after she auditioned, which leads me to believe they REALLY had a hard time finding the perfect Brianna and maybe Sophie was the best they could find that fit the physical criteria and also hold her ground with Caitriona and, well, hope the chemistry appears later with Richard?  Dunno, just me thoughts....:) . 

And, yes, off screen at cons and interviews I've seen they are great together!  Not sure why that doesn't translate to the big screen.....

[AD55]

25 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

To be fair, I don't think Diana developed their romance in the books.  Maybe that's why it doesn't bother me in the tv show.  I think the writers could have chosen to add to the Roger/Bree story and flesh out the romance a little, but they chose to stick with the book.

I think another reason it doesn't bother me is that their romance is so much more normal than Jamie and Claire's.  Bree and Roger (aside from the time travel) go through the things that most couple go through.  Their romance is very relatable.  Jamie and Claire's romance is pure fantasy.

In this interview with Richard Rankin, he makes a similar point:

[Cdh20]

33 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

To be fair, I don't think Diana developed their romance in the books.  Maybe that's why it doesn't bother me in the tv show.  I think the writers could have chosen to add to the Roger/Bree story and flesh out the romance a little, but they chose to stick with the book.

I think another reason it doesn't bother me is that their romance is so much more normal than Jamie and Claire's.  Bree and Roger (aside from the time travel) go through the things that most couple go through.  Their romance is very relatable.  Jamie and Claire's romance is pure fantasy.

 Well said! Perhaps that is the problem-no couple should be compared to Jamie & Claire? But they are in the same show, LOL! 

[AD55]

38 minutes ago, Summer said:

I've been a fan of Richard Rankin's since before Outlander and if you watch any of his other work he definitely can manage chemistry with his female co-stars (The Crimson Field and The Syndicate specifically)  but I have to agree that he and Sophie just don't have chemistry as Roger and Bree. 

And, yes, off screen at cons and interviews I've seen they are great together!  Not sure why that doesn't translate to the big screen.....

Onscreen chemistry is mysterious, and I've read that sometimes it's better if the actors aren't too close. Husbands and wives, for example, often don't have good onscreen chemistry. I'm not sure why, but I speculate it's because there's a comfort level that translates to the screen, when you want to see sparks flying. I believe Cait and Sam have good chemistry, and they certainly seem close and comfortable together in interviews, so again, it's mysterious why some pairings work and others don't (not exactly a profound insight).

Maybe the chemistry between Richard and Sophie will get better. Most of the scenes between Roger and Brianna thus far have emphasized that their love is mainly one-sided. I guess the exception is when they're handfast.  I thought Sophie looked radiant in the reunion scene. Perhaps that will translate to next season, though if I recollect correctly, that won't be true to the books. I've always thought Roger was more invested in their relationship than Brianna. Roger traveled through the stones, so he chose her, but once they're both in the eighteenth century, Brianna doesn't exactly have her pick of suitors. Whom else is she going to marry? Jamie Frasers are thin on the ground.

[Nidratime]

Quote

 Roger traveled through the stones, so he chose her, but once they're both in the eighteenth century, Brianna doesn't exactly have her pick of suitors. Whom else is she going to marry? Jamie Frasers are thin on the ground.

Besides the fact that, with any other man in the 1700's, she'd definitely be committed to staying in that century. No time-traveling family without Roger. 

[Quickbeam]

I wasn't a huge fan of Bree/Roger in the books, always felt like he was trying and failing to find himself a place in the 1700's. Bree meanwhile was building aquaducts and killing dinner. She was supposed to be a crack shot, I assumed that's how she saw Roger a mile away. 

I hated the run to your arms thing because Sophie is so inadequate in the role. I did wonder why Roger didn't work harder at picking up some Mohawk since he was surrounded by it. 

[Juliegirlj]

Jump the shark moment when Bri suddenly wakes up from giving birth- all washed and primped, and her just bathed newborn is brought to her....... (when Jenny gave birth in Scotland she did so on a pile of straw on the floor). Authenticity is important in period shows. 

Loved the romantic moment when Bri runs to meet Roger, however I agree with those that say they argued too much for us to be truly invested in their storyline. 

[toolazy]

14 hours ago, Nidratime said:

And isn't it kind of refreshing to find a person who traveled to the past who doesn't want to stay there? (Which is what every viewer has said they would want to do, i.e., not stay!) Claire wanted to stay, Geillis wanted to stay, Otter Tooth, apparently, wanted to stay, and Brianna has shown no desire one way or the other.

Claire didn't want to stay at first - she caused a lot of trouble in season 1 for everyone by trying to get home.   But Geillis and Otter Tooth came on purpose and the first time, Claire did not. 

[Cloudberryjam]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Though I find Goode attractive and a good (pardon the pun!) actor, physically, he doesn't look anything like Roger. If I recall correctly, Roger is almost as tall as Jamie, and muscular-ish. Goode is more on the lean and wiry side. 

Another thing that made me smile in the episode was seeing Sam using Jamie's physical ticks, if you will--my favorite, Jamie's tapping his fingers. This time, it was against his wine glass at dinner. I love how he infuses little things like that. Or how, since he's right-handed himself, would use his left hand for certain things because Jamie is left-handed.

MG is def lean n wiry!! But he is 6’2! (Sam 6’3) RR is 6’0.  (The fact that I just looked this up means I definitely am work procrastinating too much and need to look at my life choices haha) Oh well it doesnt matter bc we hav RR and SS and unless new exec producers Sam N Cait fire them we better get used to it :) Obvs there r lots o folks who like RR:)  

Hopefully they will give him some long pants, a bath, and a better attitude next season and he will rock it. I liked him in S3!  

[shelen]

3 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

Jump the shark moment when Bri suddenly wakes up from giving birth- all washed and primped, and her just bathed newborn is brought to her....... (when Jenny gave birth in Scotland she did so on a pile of straw on the floor). Authenticity is important in period shows. 

Loved the romantic moment when Bri runs to meet Roger, however I agree with those that say they argued too much for us to be truly invested in their storyline. 

True, Jennie's delivery was more rustic, but Brianna gave birth on a plantation with many female hands to help her.  No doubt when the baby was whisked away to be checked (ten fingers and ten toes) and bathed, Phaedra and Lizzy went about the business of bathing Brianna and making her comfortable so she can recuperate a bit before she sees the baby.

[mary2013]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 9:14 PM, anamika said:

I thought that John Bell who plays Ian also did a wonderful job this season. He brought an honest earnestness to the character that made him very lovable and yes, his joy at the end was very palpable. That's what makes this show entertaining - the beautiful scenery and the wonderful actors.

Everytime we cut to River Run, I am taken out of the scenes there by the slaves in the background or Ulysses in the Jocasta scenes. I realize that's the nature of the story and the series, but it still makes me uncomfortable that our main characters, the good guys, are so nonchalant about the whole thing.

I guess with Brianna we could hand wave it away as her growing up in 1960's - 1970's America where African-Americans were still second class citizens and subject to Jim Crow laws in the south. But I would like at least one of the characters to acknowledge how all these people there - including Phaedre - have no freedom and no choice being at River Run. Having recently suffered at the hands of slavery and captivity himself, I would think that Roger would be that character and have some introspection and self reflection about the slaves at Riverrun - but from the books, it looks like that does not happen either.

You can't hand wave that away with Brianna, though.  Her mother's best friend while Bree was growing up was Joe Abernathy.  He was a constant presence in her formative years.  Bree wouldn't consider Joe a second class citizen.

 

As for the Ulysses/Jocasta relationship, I hope they do include it.  Have a scene from Jocasta's POV where it was consensual.  And a scene from Ulysses' POV of view where it was . . not so much.   Which book was their relationship exposed - 6 or 7?

[shelen]

7 hours ago, Ziggy said:

 

Did they not realize that many book fans have been speculating every since the "save Murtagh" campaign began?

I am not on facebook, twitter, etc., therefore I am not privy to all things written/said concerning Outlander, so I am confused why people say the writers think we would be surprised a this development :

                     Murtagh and Jocasta,  can't believe the writers thought no one would see that coming.

Have the writers indicated otherwise?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I have been watching A Discovery of Witches, with Matthew Goode (late of Downton and The Crown) and  I saw someone elsewhere say he was their dream casting for Roger. Now THAT is a Roger that I could understand Brees attraction to, and he would have been a perfect nerdy historian-type.  Sorry but I also find Riks Roger so unappealing

If I live to be a thousand I will never understand the appeal of the chinless wonder that is Matthew Goode. I find Richard Rankin perfectly appealing as Roger - just goes to show, tastes differ. 

I do understand the criticisms about Roger and Bree's onscreen chemistry but I tend to consider the problem more Sophie Skelton's than Rankin's. I don't think another actor playing Roger would make much difference. She's kind of a cold fish.

[Ziggy]

19 hours ago, shelen said:

I am not on facebook, twitter, etc., therefore I am not privy to all things written/said concerning Outlander, so I am confused why people say the writers think we would be surprised a this development :

                     Murtagh and Jocasta,  can't believe the writers thought no one would see that coming.

Have the writers indicated otherwise?

If you watch Outlander on demand, at the end of every episode is a short segment called "Inside the World of Outlander," where Maril Davis, Toni Graphia and Matthew B. Roberts discuss the episode.  In this week's segment, Maril said that this "will come out of nowhere for people because in the books Murtagh is dead."

I realize the writers are too busy to read message boards, but I just found that to be very much out of touch.  There have been many, many speculations that those two characters would get together.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Ziggy
Maril said it, not Toni.

[Cdh20]

4 hours ago, Cloudberryjam said:

MG is def lean n wiry!! But he is 6’2! (Sam 6’3) RR is 6’0.  (The fact that I just looked this up means I definitely am work procrastinating too much and need to look at my life choices haha) Oh well it doesnt matter bc we hav RR and SS and unless new exec producers Sam N Cait fire them we better get used to it :) Obvs there r lots o folks who like RR:)  

Hopefully they will give him some long pants, a bath, and a better attitude next season and he will rock it. I liked him in S3!  

I had yesterday off, & my daughter said to me around 8 pm last night-do we need to limit your computer time? Oh well Droughtlander starts now, I should be free to clean to the house!

[toolazy]

36 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

If you watch Outlander on demand, at the end of every episode is a short segment called "Inside the World of Outlander," where Maril Davis, Toni Graphia and Matthew B. Roberts discuss the episode.  In this week's segment, Toni said that this "will come out of nowhere for people because in the books Murtagh is dead."

I realize the writers are too busy to read message boards, but I just found that to be very much out of touch.  There have been many, many speculations that those two characters would get together.

 People were prepared for him to marry her down the line, not hook up with her out of the blue.  Although, there has been chemistry between them every time they met this season so there was definitely groundwork laid.  

[cesstar]

On 1/29/2019 at 9:00 AM, FnkyChkn34 said:

I don't know if anyone said this yet or not, but the best part of this entire season was the look on Sam/Jamie's face when he realized his aunt and his godfather are doing a little bow-chicka-bow-wow. 

This was great! And Claire had a bit of side-eye going on too. Looking forward to more reactions next season!

 

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I do understand the criticisms about Roger and Bree's onscreen chemistry but I tend to consider the problem more Sophie Skelton's than Rankin's. I don't think another actor playing Roger would make much difference. She's kind of a cold fish.

I thought she had good chemistry with Lord John (although who wouldn't!?). I quite like her as Jamie and Claire's daughter too, those scenes worked for me although it's obviously not romantic chemistry! Maybe their onscreen spark will develop as the show goes on but sometimes it just doesn't happen. It's not a show-stopper on it's own but when the writing around the relationship is weak as well it's harder to overcome.

[WatchrTina]

9 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

Jenny gave birth in Scotland she did so on a pile of straw on the floor). Authenticity is important in period shows. 

Jenny gave birth on straw on the floor so as not to ruin the feather bed with all the mess associated with giving birth.  Brianna didn't give birth in bed either.  We saw her laboring in a birthing stool (basically chair with a section cut out of the bottom).  I'm guessing that method of labor/delivery is also authentic to the time.

[shelen]

3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

If you watch Outlander on demand, at the end of every episode is a short segment called "Inside the World of Outlander," where Maril Davis, Toni Graphia and Matthew B. Roberts discuss the episode.  In this week's segment, Toni said that this "will come out of nowhere for people because in the books Murtagh is dead."

I realize the writers are too busy to read message boards, but I just found that to be very much out of touch.  There have been many, many speculations that those two characters would get together.

Agh, got it.

[WatchrTina]

Here's a link to the "Inside the Episode" segment for this episode.  They posted it on Facebook. (I haven't posted a link to Facebook in a LONG time.  Hope this works.)

<bad link deleted>

 UPDATE:  Nope, it doesn't work.  Sorry

Edited January 30, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Ziggy]

3 hours ago, toolazy said:

 People were prepared for him to marry her down the line, not hook up with her out of the blue.  Although, there has been chemistry between them every time they met this season so there was definitely groundwork laid.  

 

Not really “down the line.” Duncan and Jocasta planned to marry at the gathering that the Frasers are traveling to at the end of Drums.

[anamika]

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If I live to be a thousand I will never understand the appeal of the chinless wonder that is Matthew Goode. I find Richard Rankin perfectly appealing as Roger - just goes to show, tastes differ. 

I do understand the criticisms about Roger and Bree's onscreen chemistry but I tend to consider the problem more Sophie Skelton's than Rankin's. I don't think another actor playing Roger would make much difference. She's kind of a cold fish.

Considering what's coming down the line for Roger, I think it's more important that character be played by a good actor than be hot and appealing. Especially on a show like this where the writing is sometimes lacking. Rankin makes the character more sympathetic despite some of his unlikable aspects. And chemistry is subjective. I like Bree and Roger as flawed as they are.

I personally think Rankin is a better actor than Sam Heughan. Some of his line delivery is just spot on - 'A misunderstanding?! Claire!', lol. And he's seems to be a pretty good singer as well.

I also don't get the intense dislike for Roger in some quarters considering the time period. Did not Jaime brutally beat Claire with his belt in book one? It seems like for some reason that Roger is expected to behave like a modern 21st century enlightened man where women are concerned - when even in the 21st century, in the era of me too, men have not improved all that much generally.

I will miss young Ian and Rollo. I like that they had Rollo in all the scenes - he could be seen in the boats from the top shot and in the side shots being very comfy sitting in those boats and then shots of him running around in the village. Since the Mohawk like dogs, I think Rollo will enjoy his time there.

[AAEBoiler]

On 1/27/2019 at 6:14 PM, Trillian said:

I didn’t. I thought it was, for some inexplicable reason, Tobias Menzies dressed as an indigenous person (take a good look at the actor - there is some resemblance there!).

Thank you! I would've swore that the actor was Tobias Menzies too and was wondering how they were going to trace Black Jack Randall's blood line to a Native American in the 20th century.

[toolazy]

13 hours ago, Ziggy said:

 

Not really “down the line.” Duncan and Jocasta planned to marry at the gathering that the Frasers are traveling to at the end of Drums.

Well, considering that the stupid gathering lasts forever, it still seems "down the line."  But my point stands.  We were expecting maybe marriage, but not really a proper love affair.  Now that it looks like we might have a proper love affair, I'm tickled by it.  

[tennisgurl]

I am going to miss Young Ian and Rollo so much! I do like how it worked out, as they've established throughout the season that Ian is interested in Native American culture, and has spent time with them and learned their language and their ways, and while him having to leave his family was absolutely heartbreaking, he seemed so happy when he made it past The Gauntlet! He was beaming so happily, it made me retroactively sad that we have never seen Young Ian that happy before now. This will certainly be awkward to explain to Older Ian and Jenny though. 

So we finally find the story of the Native American ghost head! That story was really cool and I liked the way it was told and shown, even seeing Otter-Tooth back in the 20th century! I do now wonder how many people from the past/future are all running around in different time periods then the one they came from,either just bumping into the stones, or going on purpose to try and change the future. Otter-Tooth turned out to be a sort of Native American Geillis, a person from the 20th century who came to the past to inspire their respective people to fight against the oppressors who will inevitably destroy their cultures...but their people also think that they're both pretty crazy, and kick them out, due to their tendencies towards violent murder and being generally creepy, and then come back as a respective ghost and witch. 

You know Jamie, when you've beaten a guy almost to death and sold him into slavery, maybe give him about a day before you start screaming at him about how all of this is his fault some how? He probably deserved a few of those punches. I mean, Jamie would probably agree with that, but I was with Claire on the "can we just stop with the punching and go home guys?" kinds of looks. Of course, a lot of that was probably because Jamie, as much as he is as progressive as a man of his time and place can possibly be, he is still a big believer in protecting your family and especially the female members of it, and just cannot get how Roger could leave her on their wedding night. 

Jocasta and Murtagh! Oh yeah, get it Murtagh! I was dying at the look Jamie gave gave when he realized that his godfather and aunt had a thing going on, his eyes practically popped out like a cartoon. Of course, its kind of darkly hilarious watching Murtagh asking Jocasta to help him fight for liberty, and woman who owns slaves. I mean, its certainly true to the time, as there were plenty of founding fathers who went on and on about freedom and liberty from British oppression, which still happily owning other humans, never noticing that glaring hypocrisy, but it makes me wonder when someone, probably Claire, will point out that small detail.  

Bree has certainly gotten used to having slaves around, hadn't she? I mean, maybe she has rationalized that she cant really do much at this point, and these people are at least being well treated, as far as being a slave goes. I just kind of wish we saw her being more conflicted about it the way Claire was, being a modern person in this insane and fucked up situation. 

[SoTheresThat]

deleted

Edited January 31, 2019 by SoTheresThat

[fishpan]

On 28/01/2019 at 3:20 PM, nodorothyparker said:

You're right that their book counterparts really don't know much of anything useful on that front, almost comically so at times.  But it still seems like something that would be a natural subject of conversation in their specific situation.  From here going forward, we get repeated mentions of book Jamie asking these questions of each of the three time travelers in the family as he tries to figure out how to respond to each summons from Tyron or various political happenings.  That's one of my consistent criticisms of this season that includes the Great Misunderstanding, that characters aren't having conversations natural to their extraordinary circumstances.  If you didn't know any better, Murtagh might as well have thought that Brianna was away at school before she showed up in Wilmington.

Isn't that said at one point tho in the books or implied.  When Jamie is talking to Claire and Bree the future and what is going to happen sounds vague in a way and like fairytales.  But when he talks to Roger about it, because of the manner he speaks about 'history' it all seems more real and unable to be changed.  Suppose it is in part that Claire and Bree are remembering what Frank told them and what they learned at school, where are Roger was a historian.

Edited January 31, 2019 by fishpan

[Nidratime]

Quote

Isn't that said at one point tho in the books or implied.  When Jamie is talking to Claire and Bree the future and what is going to happen sounds vague in a way and like fairytales.  But when he talks to Roger about it, because of the manner he speaks about 'history' it all seems more real and unable to be changed.  Suppose it is in part that Claire and Bree are remembering what Frank told them and what they learned at school, where are Roger was a historian.

Yes, I haven't read much beyond book four, but I intend to this year.

In any event, when we consider what strengths our 20th Century characters bring to the past, Claire's and Bree's seem the most practical. Claire, the doctor/scientist and Bree, the engineer with hunting skills. Roger, however, is our intellectual. He's an historian, raised by a theologian, and though he's had some exposure to outdoor activities, I take it, it has not been much more than a job between school semesters or maybe "camping". Therefore, Roger's usefulness is a bit more intangible, but one way he should be enormously helpful is in terms of historical knowledge. Now, I know he's probably not an expert on American history and Bree might be more useful filling in some gaps there. But, he should know British colonial history and their relationship with the French which factors into the American Revolution. 

[fishpan]

30 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

In any event, when we consider what strengths our 20th Century characters bring to the past, Claire's and Bree's seem the most practical. Claire, the doctor/scientist and Bree, the engineer with hunting skills. Roger, however, is our intellectual. He's an historian, raised by a theologian, and though he's had some exposure to outdoor activities, I take it, it has not been much more than a job between school semesters or maybe "camping". Therefore, Roger's usefulness is a bit more intangible, but one way he should be enormously helpful is in terms of historical knowledge. Now, I know he's probably not an expert on American history and Bree might be more useful filling in some gaps there. But, he should know British colonial history and their relationship with the French which factors into the American Revolution. 

True in the books you have Claire essentially inventing antibiotics and anaesthetic and Bree building kilns and talking about getting plumbing into Frazer's ridge and that is on top of the skills that Frank ensured she had.  Roger in the books, well he had summers on trawlers, that is how he can speak Gaelic if I remember correctly.  But they were 1950's trawlers so sailing/fishing 18th century style wouldn't be something he's an expert in.  

So yes his usefulness is more intagable.  But in a way that is why Roger in the books is more relateable to me.  He isn't able to master shooting, farming, hunting and all the other skills that everyone else seems to bring to the table straight off the bat.  And he isn't reinventing the wheel, like Claire.  He tries and stumbles a lot but he still seems like a guy who in the 20th century would be a good crack down the pub if not a little staid.

Edited January 31, 2019 by fishpan

[terrymct]

I'm not certain if it's been mentioned before, but the folks at Go Fug Yourself (mostly a fashion blog) have been doing some funny and good recaps of Outlander.  Here's the one for this episode:  https://www.gofugyourself.com/outlander-finale-recap-the-ballad-of-murcasta-01-2019

[Atlanta]

On 1/28/2019 at 9:06 PM, Moxie Cat said:

They seem like the opposite of Jamie and Claire, who fell in love due to being in close proximity and recognizing their chemistry and each other's strengths. Bree and Roger are like the opposite: they seem to idealize each other, without really knowing the other person very well or being actually in love with that person. (I still can't get over that Roger didn't seem to expect Bree to finish college when he knew how educated her parents were, and presumably, how smart she was.)

 

In the book, she does finish her degree. She heads through the stones when she's done with finals and Joe takes her to dinner to celebrate being done. Bummed they didn't show that. She was supposed to catch up with Roger early that summer, but he goes abroad for something work related and she has all her stuff sent to his place for safe keeping.

Spoiler

She later (in the future) does become the breadwinner and works as an engineer in Inverness.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Atlanta

[toolazy]

2 hours ago, terrymct said:

I'm not certain if it's been mentioned before, but the folks at Go Fug Yourself (mostly a fashion blog) have been doing some funny and good recaps of Outlander.  Here's the one for this episode:  https://www.gofugyourself.com/outlander-finale-recap-the-ballad-of-murcasta-01-2019

"Microwaved Bee Gee" cracked me up.

[BigBeagle]

Quote

"Microwaved Bee Gee" cracked me up.

I liked how Roger and Brie embraced like "two humans who have chemistry." Damning with faint praise, indeed.

On the subject of the couple's mad dash into each other arms, may I just say how impressed I was with Sophie Skelton's running skills? She was picking 'em up and putting them down like she was competing in the 100-meter dash ... in a Colonial-era dress.

Edited January 31, 2019 by BigBeagle

[toolazy]

54 minutes ago, BigBeagle said:

I liked how Roger and Brie embraced like "two humans who have chemistry." Damning with faint praise, indeed.

On the subject of the couple's mad dash into each other arms, may I just say how impressed I was with Sophie Skelton's running skills? She was picking 'em up and putting them down like she was competing in the 100-meter dash ... in a Colonial-era dress.

And her shoes were probably weird, too.  Were they making left and right-shaped shoes yet in 1770?  I would have tripped over a petticoat and gone sprawling.