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S01.E12: Vanishing Point

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Episode Description:

When Cal is discovered missing from his bedroom, Grace and Ben launch a desperate search which takes them to the remote mountains of upstate New York. A tantalizing trail of breadcrumbs leads them to a startling, game-changing discovery. Meanwhile, Michaela confronts the deceptive Autumn, and the shadowy "Major" finally makes an appearance.

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I don't understand how Ben didn't push Grace into traffic during their conversation on the street.

First with her "If we were living under one roof, Cal wouldn't have run away" bullshit and then responding to Ben's reasonable "You kicked me out" with "And you left! With no objection!". I just loathe her. She is scum. And frankly at this point Ben is coming off worse for not telling to go to hell.

Ugh. So it was an episode colored by hatred for one character.

 

But my little heart fluttered when I recognized the hiker guy as Matt Long. Jack & Bobby was such a great one-season wonder back in 2004 and now I feel old.

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This was kinda a meh episode. Lots of running around, but very little actually happened. I did like Olive and Grandpa getting in on the mystery, but can someone just put a GPS chip in Cal already? Kid wanders off more than a stray cat. We all know that they’re not going to kill or permanently lose Cal so there’s just no tension in find Cal episodes. Frankly I kinda wish he’d stay lost. We can bring back the suspicious female detective though. She has more screen presence in like 5 minutes than many of the regulars do in 5 episodes.

Omg, Grace is the actual worst. Trying to retcon away her “I don’t want to hear any of it! Shut up about your crazy powers and theories about your powers!” just makes her look worse, writers, not better. Ben didn’t tell her anything because he tried and SHE TOLD HIM NOT TO. Also when Grace was all “Do you think I WANT to be separated?!” it made me actually lol and I’m glad Ben just about laughed in her face too when he said “YOU kicked ME out.” I also don’t get why they keep talking about investigating the mystery as “sacrificing for other people.” It’s...not? Cal is feeling the effects of the powers more than anyone else, has almost died because of it, and is of interest to shady people because of it—and as we’ve been told ad nauseaum Ben is only in it FOR CAL—so actually he is doing this all for his family? I don’t understand the writers here. It’s either like different people are writing different scripts and never talking OR they are just trying to fit a round peg into a square hole...of their own making. And why isn’t Ben allowed to say any of this to Grace? It would be nice if their conversation at the end of the episode means that the writers will find another line for Grace than “you are not paying enough attention to your family!” but I’m not holding my breath.

Not interested in Zeke the second time traveler. You can see the love quadrangle coming from a mile away and I am already bored. Dude’s real superhero power is recovering from hypothermia in like 5 seconds! That said, the previews for next week look much more interesting than this week’s ep. yay Saanvi and yay the idea that 828 cracked something open that hasn’t been closed—I dig that idea very much.

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Grace and Ben relationship still boring but at least now she's on board so the character has a reason to be on the show.

Thumbs up on the twist with snow guy. Not confident they will ever be able to make a coherent explanation, but at least we get some fresh air and a change of scenery.

The Major was one of the killers in the Bourne movie w Jeremy Renner. She plays ruthless well. 

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Well, I am confused again!!  I wonder why the Commander/Major/Captain- I forgot what she is- now moving to NYC?  Couldn't she keep doing all of this from DC?  I wonder if the government people are shadow government people?

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So we're not supposed to recognize the major from some other episode? I was wondering about that. It's sometimes hard to keep up with everyone.

I agree on the whole Grace is terrible thing. Ben says you kicked me out and she responds with and you left. What was he supposed to do? Argue with her and not leave?

I hope they're not just setting up a lot more mysteries that they don't intend to pay off anytime soon. You can't just keep starting new mysteries. Some have to be paid off now and then to keep the viewers interested.

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I am now more convinced that ever that the show has no idea why the plane disappears because they expanding the mysterious missing year (s) with new guy. 

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Thumbs up on the twist with snow guy. Not confident they will ever be able to make a coherent explanation, but at least we get some fresh air and a change of scenery.

I'm happy about the twist.  Not the magical life saving properties of the magazine photo of Michaela, but I like that there are now multiple time anomalies.  Does that mean it's a natural phenomenon after all?  

What ever happened to Vance's second hand man?  He was taken away in a black van a couple of episodes ago and hasn't been seen or heard from since.  Ben hasn't mentioned him either. 

Ben is still too accommodating to Grace's ridiculous statements.  She actually had the nerve to yell at him for leaving after she kicked him out?  I hate that sh**.  No means no, Grace.  Men don't have to interpret women's words.  Ben wasn't supposed to be thinking, "Grace is screaming at me to get out, but she actually wants me to fight for our marriage!"  Hopefully the writer's can get their heads out of their asses and write a decent female character for the actress.  Less soap opera, more time travelling mystery people!

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Does Grace not know what "draw" means?

She didn't want to hear it, wanted to pretend everything was normal, and now she says 'why didn't you tell me'?

So the guy was in a time-travel cave? Or something? But only for a year? My attention sorta wandered toward the end.

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I'm willing to bet Capt Daly and Fiona will be back within the next 2 episodes, based on the dark lightning they showed for the next episode. As least things have started to become more interesting. Glad there was no Danny or Lourdes storyline this week. 

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So Zeke looks like he should at least be Jared's cousin, right?
And I guess there's going to be a year old newspaper clipping about him dying/disappearing in a blizzard, right?

 

18 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

I don't understand how Ben didn't push Grace into traffic during their conversation on the street

LOL!
But, seriously:

19 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

Trying to retcon away her “I don’t want to hear any of it! Shut up about your crazy powers and theories about your powers!” just makes her look worse, writers, not better.

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

I did like Olive and Grandpa getting in on the mystery, but can someone just put a GPS chip in Cal already? Kid wanders off more than a stray cat.

But the bad guys would be on Cal's tracker like a hen on a June bug. Better to buy him a variety of burner phones so he can call home. You know, like ET.

 

 

Just now, DoItToIt said:

I'm willing to bet Capt Daly and Fiona will be back within the next 2 episodes,[1] based on the dark lightning they showed for the next episode. As least things have started to become more interesting. Glad there was no Danny[2] or Lourdes[3] storyline this week. 

[1,2,3]Yes, yes, and yes.

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Am I the only one that thinks that maybe Dir. Bob Vance (Vance Refrigeration) is still alive? I don't believe we've heard the last of that character.

Edited by Aryanna
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Grace is the worst. Truly. The absolute worst. Possibly ever. Ben, get out! Ben, how could you have left like that?! Ben, tell me everything! Ben, what you're saying is crazy. Shut up! 

Grace needs to go on a hike in the winter and be lost for a year. At least.

I feel bad saying negative things about children, but the boy who plays Cal seems to be getting worse by the episode. 

The Zeke storyline might at least be interesting, and I do find it intriguing that whatever happened to the plane could have had pretty major ripple effects (affecting people who weren't at all connected to the flight), or that the plane itself is somehow responsible for . . . something, or that whatever happened to the plane has happened at other times, in other places, but on a much smaller scale. Or a combination of all of those. 

Speaking of Zeke, I think he passed out not so much from the hypothermia but because of the anvil that fell on his head portending the love triangle turning into a whole new shape. 

Though I had been in favor of Jared/Michaela, after the terrible writing last week, maybe it would be better to let Mic start something with the new guy, because I don't have any confidence whatsoever that the writers know to wrap up the triangle soon, in any kind of satisfactory way, or without invoking every possible soap opera trope they possibly can. 

And you can add me to the list of those thinking we'll be seeing Daly and Fiona again very soon.

Edited by weathered1
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1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

Omg, Grace is the actual worst. Trying to retcon away her “I don’t want to hear any of it! Shut up about your crazy powers and theories about your powers!” just makes her look worse, writers, not better. Ben didn’t tell her anything because he tried and SHE TOLD HIM NOT TO.

When was that?  I saw ever episode but last week's and all I remember douche-bag Ben ever saying is "trust me" this and "trust me" that and never telling her anything but small bits that made no sense without the bigger picture he always hid.  And he admitted it this episode too.

"Didn't tell you cause I'm the big manly man and I had to protect you, lowly weak woman folks.  Just walk 10 feet behind me and don't ask me to tell you anything and I will save you from things I won't tell you cause you poor woman folk would be all in danger if you knew what was going on.  Better to be in the dark and not worry yer pretty little heads about such things that are best left to us manly men."  God I hate this type of man beyond mere mortal words!!!!

And once he finally HAD to tell her stuff what did he do?  He STILL (and immediately) turned around in seconds and pulled the exact same crap but on his daughter now.  "I can't tell you anything.  Stay home.  Trust me."

I swear if he says "trust me" to one more woman my TV is in danger of me smashing it to bits!

Ben is THE worst!  Worse than that stupid Knights Templar guy in Knight Fall and if you ever saw that show then you know that means Ben is the worst of the worst!

Edited by green
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45 minutes ago, green said:

When was that?  I saw ever episode but last week's and all I remember douche-bag Ben ever saying is "trust me" this and "trust me" that and never telling her anything but small bits that made no sense without the bigger picture he always hid.

Episode 6 when Cal was sick. She essentially said he sounded crazy and reminded him that he went down rabbit trails when Cal was sick the first time.

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1 hour ago, green said:

When was that?  I saw ever episode but last week's and all I remember douche-bag Ben ever saying is "trust me" this and "trust me" that and never telling her anything but small bits that made no sense without the bigger picture he always hid.  And he admitted it this episode too.

"Didn't tell you cause I'm the big manly man and I had to protect you, lowly weak woman folks.  Just walk 10 feet behind me and don't ask me to tell you anything and I will save you from things I won't tell you cause you poor woman folk would be all in danger if you knew what was going on.  Better to be in the dark and not worry yer pretty little heads about such things that are best left to us manly men."  God I hate this type of man beyond mere mortal words!!!!

And once he finally HAD to tell her stuff what did he do?  He STILL (and immediately) turned around in seconds and pulled the exact same crap but on his daughter now.  "I can't tell you anything.  Stay home.  Trust me."

I swear if he says "trust me" to one more woman my TV is in danger of me smashing it to bits!

Ben is THE worst!  Worse than that stupid Knights Templar guy in Knight Fall and if you ever saw that show then you know that means Ben is the worst of the worst!

Truth ! I really like Ben and I like Grace ( that seems almost taboo to say ) and yes I like Ben & Grace together and love the chemistry between them but agree Ben has not one ever has been forthcoming about anything so I’m siding with Grace and do think Ben was the idiot not Grace so really don’t understand all the hatred toward Grace ! At least Grace is likeable which is more than I can say about Jared who is still a lying unfaithful pig and I’d rather see Michaela with the new guy or any guy but Jared ! 

20 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Alright, I am actually interested in snow guy and the possibility of multiple time anomalies. Will the time lines start crossing at different places? This seems like an actually promising new plot thread, dont screw it up, show! This has some real potential!

He told her literally everything the episode where she kicked him out. She asked him why he and Cal were running around, and he told her everything that was going on, and she immediately told him this was all crazy (because I guess disappearing for five years and not aging a day is normal for her?) and he was crazy and he needed to leave right now with all his crazy. I remember it very well, because my head was spinning at her reaction. I mean, if she thinks this is all nuts, she should be worried that her husband and sister in law are experiencing terrible PTSD and should get help ASAP, and if she doesent, why should she be kicking him out, and being all upset about him investigating? Its her son that is central to all of this, and she hardly seems to care! Oh, and when Cal was sick, and she told him to shut up with his stupid solutions. He has told her everything, more than once, but she never wants to hear it.

This is a blatant ret-con to get us to side with Grace, even though its not at all what we have seen! Grace is truly The Worst, and Ben has way more patience with her than I ever could. She blames HIM for leaving? When SHE kicked HIM out?! Dude, your husband isnt a psychic! How was he supposed to read the imaginary subtext of "get outta this house right now"?  What did you want him to do, stay when you told him to go? Thats what people are supposed to do when someone tells them to leave! This is the message that messes people up, and makes it so hard to get across that no means no so often! When a person says they want you to leave, you just leave! Grace would probably call the fucking cops on him! If you want your husband back, you had a billion chances to ask him to come home, and you didnt! You made shitty waffles, ignored you kids, and dithered between your husband and your boyfriend! 

Speak for yourself I have liked Grace all along and still do ! 

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This episode's biggest star was Danny's truck, right?  What a bunch of cool buttons... off-road?  I had to laugh when Ben went, "So this is [Danny's]... other... vehicle?"

A kid was gone for less than 12 hours and the police has cordoned off the street and the mom is being fingerprinted and the detective lady is asking rude accusatory questions like she's judge, jury and executioner.  I love the real-world feel of this show.

For maybe fifteen minutes, I thought it was kind of nice to have Grace involved and in-the-know.  But her responses to Ben when they were talking in the town were jaw-droppingly defensive.  Ben said "You're right [Cal wouldn't have left if both of us were living at the house] but you shouldn't be blaming yourself" and Grace pretty much bit his head off with the "I'm not, but it sounds like you're blaming me."  So she wasn't blaming herself at all?  The whole "Do you think I want to be separated?" and then turning around and faulting Ben for leaving without objections - how can you argue with someone like that?   Ben clearly doesn't care about 190 other passengers over his own family... if anything, it's the reverse.  

Why did Michaela conclude at the end that the major "has to regroup"?  The Major has a frickin' taskforce... why wouldn't they be continuing to search for Cal?  Just because we need a quiet moment in the cabin for the mysterious abominable snowman to give us a teaser of what's to come?  Speaking of which, move over Jared, because hot hiker guy has his eye on Michaela and can identify with her time loss syndrome.  

This show is still mildly engaging though it's obvious they're just spinning their wheels giving us some new unrelated "mystery" every other week.  

Let's finish with Michaela's inspirational line.  "Bottoming out is good"  Totally, extra points if you slap a huge target on a young kid's back!  Since when did Autumn suddenly have a kid?  Wouldn't we have heard the previous lackey threaten her with that before?

Edited by Camera One
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3 hours ago, Camera One said:

Speaking of which, move over Jared, because hot hiker guy has his eye on Michaela and can identify with her time loss syndrome.  

I bet that's almost verbatim what a fly on the wall of the writers' room would've heard.

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10 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

I don't understand how Ben didn't push Grace into traffic during their conversation on the street.

First with her "If we were living under one roof, Cal wouldn't have run away" bullshit and then responding to Ben's reasonable "You kicked me out" with "And you left! With no objection!". I just loathe her. She is scum. And frankly at this point Ben is coming off worse for not telling to go to hell.

Ugh. So it was an episode colored by hatred for one character.

Ben must be in hell, that is the only reason why Grace and to a lesser extent Olive still exist.

10 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Not interested in Zeke the second time traveler. You can see the love quadrangle coming from a mile away and I am already bored. Dude’s real superhero power is recovering from hypothermia in like 5 seconds! That said, the previews for next week look much more interesting than this week’s ep. yay Saanvi and yay the idea that 828 cracked something open that hasn’t been closed—I dig that idea very much.

I am just waiting for Sam Becket to show up.

Edited by icemiser69
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10 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Ben must be in hell, that is the only reason why Grace and to a lesser extent Olive still exist.

Ha! Yes, maybe that is what Flight 828 did: it transported them to an alternate universe...a hell universe.

I do like Olive though. She's really not so bad imo.

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5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I am just waiting for Sam Becket to show up.

Wasn't that on NBC?  It could happen.

I tend to side with Ben more than Grace, but I do think she had reason to be mad for being kept in the dark.   He should have tried to speak to her again after the hospital during the half an episode when they were kind of getting along.  I do think she had not right to be bad when he left when she asked.  She was about to completely melt down and he had been back a number of times where she could have asked him to talk it out or stay.  Plus one of those times he came back he found Danny there.  It was on her to ask him to move back if that is what she wanted.  I actually do think they have some chemistry, at least more than she does with Danny, which makes her look all the worse for not just focusing on the marriage. 

I liked the twist with the guy at the end.  It would not shock me if he also was an obstacle for Jared and Mick.  I do think they are end game - supposed to be true love etc.  Ben and Grace - I really don't know how they will end up.

Too early to tell, but the Major looks like she might have the acting to chops to pull of being a cold, ruthless, big bad.

Unpopular opinion.  I don't think Cal is horrible.  I don't want too much focus going to his character but I am fine with him when he is on screen.  As much as things center around him, a lot of the episodes still have him off-screen a bit.

1 minute ago, stealinghome said:

Ha! Yes, maybe that is what Flight 828 did: it transported them to an alternate universe...a hell universe.

I do like Olive though. She's really not so bad imo.

I think she comes off as a real teen for the most part and she gives off a bit more vulnerability than Grace and is more likable than her mother.  Plus she does look like she feels bad [most of the time] when she sees she has hurt her father.

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7 hours ago, Camera One said:

This episode's biggest star was Danny's truck, right?  What a bunch of cool buttons... off-road?  I had to laugh when Ben went, "So this is [Danny's]... other... vehicle?"

I would have preferred a manual (standard) transmission with Ben down shifting and up shifting all over the place as he is trying to find Cal.  Of course he probably wouldn't know how to drive a stick shift so the point is moot.  It would be pretty funny watching him try to shift without grinding the gears.

18 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Wasn't that on NBC?  It could happen.

Yes, Quantum Leap was on NBC. 

Scott Bakula now stars on NCIS: New Orleans on CBS..

19 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

I do like Olive though. She's really not so bad imo.

With Olive, comes Danny.  When Danny arrives, Grace  gets all high schoolish, not knowing what she wants which leaves Danny and Ben both holding their "onions".

If Olive would just let things be, I wouldn't have a problem with her.

Edited by icemiser69
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Alright, I am actually interested in snow guy and the possibility of multiple time anomalies. Will the time lines start crossing at different places? This seems like an actually promising new plot thread, dont screw it up, show! This has some real potential!

I'm not at all interested in the snow dude and/or any triangle/quadrangle with Mick and Jared and Lourdes-this show needs less family drama, not more. BUT, I do like the idea of crossing storylines and timelines and the possibility of a real sci-fi approach and something of interest.

And, in the world of unrealistic, how about that Danny could get the entire investigation shut down in 3 minutes with no consequences, follow up or anything???? And, yes, they do need to put a GPS on Cal, even if the Major can follow it too.

All in all, a pretty enjoyable plot twist even if we did have to endure Grace pretending like she didn't kick Ben out and that he was to blame for, I don't know, leaving.

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Well, I was on the right track when I wondered if the Major would be played by Camryn Manheim!  She is played by another alumna of Person of Interest (Elizabeth Marvel, who played Alicia), which was another conspiracy-based series.  

I see another time travel story has popped up, ala the sideways of Lost, but instead of a Frozen Donkey Wheel, we have a Frozen Hiker Zeke.  Is he good or evil ala Benry from Lost? (who was played by Michael Emerson, who was the co-star of Person of Interest.)  The connections are just about as convoluted as a government conspiracy.

Aaand the plane through the time rip was also the driving force behind Stephen King's "The Langoliers" (of which the TV version co-starred the guy who played Beckett's contact on Quantum!

The head, it doth reel.

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So the episode was interesting, but to me, it really feels like the writers have bit off more than they can chew. 

Grace is just . . . just there and she's annoying, although less so toward the end of the episode than she was the entire episode. That whole conversation about her kicking him out was horrid. 

I feel like they killed off the wrong person. Ben's mother would have been more useful and it wouldn't be shocking if she was a time traveler herself. And speaking of her, except for that bad scene Michaela had at her grave, her death has been so glossed over. They were with her essentially the day before in Jamaica and when they landed, they found out she had died. I get compartmentalizing feelings, but I find that so extreme. They don't really talk about her, they didn't mourn her. It's just like this "oh well! she died. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" 

Of course Autumn has a kid being used to blackmail her into working for the general. No one ever used that plot before. 

Cal is still creepy.

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2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I am just waiting for Sam Becket to show up.

Oh boy!

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The close ups of various characters while playing "suspenseful" or mournful music/sounds effects, have very nearly reached telenovela level.  It's so bad, it's funny.  It's actually almost at "Geico commercial mocking telenovela" level funny.  

Was anyone able to tell what kind of magazine Zeke had, that featured a full page (at least) article with Michaela, and quotes from OIive (and others)?    An issue of Presumed Dead Disgraced Lady Cop monthly, or...?

Edited by reallyjustjen
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15 hours ago, CountryCrazy said:

Truth ! I really like Ben and I like Grace ( that seems almost taboo to say ) and yes I like Ben & Grace together and love the chemistry between them but agree Ben has not one ever has been forthcoming about anything so I’m siding with Grace and do think Ben was the idiot not Grace so really don’t understand all the hatred toward Grace ! At least Grace is likeable which is more than I can say about Jared who is still a lying unfaithful pig and I’d rather see Michaela with the new guy or any guy but Jared ! 

Speak for yourself I have liked Grace all along and still do ! 

Me too.  I'm 100% Team Grace!

The incidents cited above I asked for -- and thanks to the people who replied -- were the ones I remembered where Ben just rambled on giving just a few bits and pieces and holding back the central core stuff that might make things make some sense.  So what he said did make him sound like a total lunatic then.  Especially at the hospital.  At home before being thrown out he just shuts up and refuses to paint the big picture again. 

These people are absolutely the most infuriating characters in TV shows and lazy writing showing it's ugly head.  They are the ones that cause all the problems with their half-truths and stony and downright self-righteously smug silences.  Go, Team Grace!  She should have been aboard from Day One and not frozen out all season long by stupid, arrogant Ben.

Edited by green

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As to Grace vs Ben.  The show is really setting us up to not like Grace for whatever reason.  We're seeing Ben's side of things.  We see that all the crazy stuff he tells Grace is real, even though the only weird thing Grace has experienced is the return of the plane.  We also see very little of Grace and Ben prior to the plane taking off and returning.  So we have no idea what Ben was like, other than the hints Grace has dropped about him chasing any possible solution to saving Cal. 

They've also thrown Grace into an impossible position of having moved on when her husband & child "died" until the plane reappears.  Which, I think is their way of trying to make her sympathetic.  Because she isn't wrong to have moved on.  And no one is the bad guy (not Grace, not Ben and not Danny).  Though Danny really does need to back off and let Grace make her own decisions.  All those early texts annoyed me.   Though I do get why Olive brought him back into the family dynamic.

So we're seeing Grace and Ben at a crossroads.  Ben isn't telling her everything because every time he tries, she blows him off for chasing windmills or the writers make him say something cryptic before the commercial beat.  So he, until this episode, never really sat her down and said "missing plane, govt conspiracy, callings, blah, blah, blah". 

Grace needs to hear all of it because she can't make a competent choice without all the facts. 

Ben needs to stop trying to pretend he's Liam Neeson in Taken. 

And for the love of all things holy, would someone get Micheala a new love interest because I cannot stand the Lourdes, Jared, Michaela love triangle.  Jared is just a snake.  Lourdes and Michaela deserve better.  And I'm not overly bothered by the cheating, because like with Ben, Danny & Grace, it's just an impossible situation.  But Jared just clearly saw Michaela trying to stay away and he pushed to keep her as a partner.  Walk away dude.

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No matter which "team" you're on - Ben or Grace or neither - you have to admit that the lines of dialogue they had were hideous - "You ASKED me to leave!" "And you WENT!" I'm sorry but that was ridiculous!! I was embarrassed for both actors having to actually look at each other and say those lines. Seriously??? How on earth did the team of writers think that that exchange was compelling or helped make us viewers feel more invested in either character? 

I think having another person who's unknowingly gone through the same experience as the 828-ers is interesting, but I have virtually no faith in the show's writers that they'll do something interesting, suspenseful, and intelligent with it, other than making Snow Guy a love interest for Michaela. I hope I'm wrong - I hope they don't screw this up - but I'm not holding my breath.  But I want to know his backstory - who is he, where'd he come from, what's happened with his loved ones/family in the past year? 

I think at some point, Ben and/or Grace need to have a talk with Cal and let him know, in terms he can understand, what has been happening and what they think is going on. They might not need to give him every single gory detail, but at this point, he needs to be more aware of his 'importance' to The Major and her group, whoever they are, and that he can't just up and walk out the door. He's not five years old - he seems fairly bright - he understands, obviously, that something completely improbable and insane has happened, so I think he'd be able to deal with most of what's happened since they returned. If keeping Cal safe is THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY of Ben and Grace, then clue him in...let him be aware of what his parents are trying to do, and why, so that he "gets" the importance of keeping THEM informed, even if he doesn't quite understand why he's drawing people or places that aren't familiar, etc. 

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I loved it.  The new addition adds a nice, new twist.  It seems the Major wants Cal for her own personal uses. I don't like the fact that she has control of everything related to law enforcement.  Why are all these shows using the whole Government conspiracy with no regard to individual lives scenario.  It's just depressing, like we have no control over our own lives. I don't like seeing soldiers used to round up and collect victims of an incident not of their own making.  I also don’t like the attempt to gaslight us with regard to Grace.  The writers have her acting like Ben deliberately left her in the dark, as far as I remember, she didn’t want to know shit and thought Ben cared about everyone else except his family.  That’s not how I remember it.  Grace even went so far as to warn off Saanvi from interacting with both Cal AND Ben, so she had at least some idea that shit was going down around Cal.  She showed ZERO curiosity!!!  Ben has always tried to protect Cal and his family, not just everyone else.  Sure, he has to check out every lead but he needs to get to who is responsible.

I still don’t forgive Autumn for what she did.  I understand her reasons, but she has done too much damage already.  Go "Brows" for the "smash and grab" and subsequent roughing up of Autumn.  The show could have made it a little harder for "Brows" to find Autumn's daughter.  It took less time to find her daughter than it takes to have a pizza delivered.  Did Autumn even look for her daughter or did she just whine about her ex-partners robbing her blind?  What the fuck did she expect when she was working with identity thieves?  That's what they do.  She was thought dead, of course her old partners would try to blame her for everything and rob her blind.  She herself did it to others.

Loved Cal's drawings, it must be Hell inside his head right now.  Mick's head also.  LOL, Jared's got it bad.  He's not even thinking about his wife.  Poor Lourdes, she's getting screwed and doesn't even know it.  Has Jared even mentioned anything to his wife or is he just going along with the pregnancy plan?  Perhaps, just a line or two about his wife will do.  Otherwise, he's not worth it for either woman.

I hate to say it, but when the scene shifted to all of Cal's family members in the house with NINETEEN police officers (she counted?) looking frantically for him, I thought Olive looked like she just wanted to call Danny and cry on his shoulder. She didn't even hug her parents for comfort. She stood on the opposite side of the room, not even near her parents; like she's not a part of the family.

Nice thinking on her feet by Brows to call in Jared for the Grandpa deception.  Smooth, although the detective was still a bit skeptical.  Perhaps, they should have pulled her aside and maybe test her out a bit for complicity.  This "Major has every law enforcement officer under her thumb" shit gets old.  Where's MSNBC or CNN investigating.  Speaking of, what happened to the reporter who was working with Ben?  Did he get killed or something? He was there, now he's not.  Did he get "Vanced"?

 

Does any body remember what the Major called Cal?  She called him something like "The Focus" or something.  She said something like, "We can't let another 'Focus' get away again", or something along those lines.  Was there another Focus?  Was that Focus the Abominable Snowman?

Edited by Jacks-Son · Reason: The Snowmen are Coming!
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17 hours ago, kirkola said:

...   So we're seeing Grace and Ben at a crossroads.  Ben isn't telling her everything because every time he tries, she blows him off for chasing windmills or the writers make him say something cryptic before the commercial beat.  So he, until this episode, never really sat her down and said "missing plane, govt conspiracy, callings, blah, blah, blah". 

Grace needs to hear all of it because she can't make a competent choice without all the facts. 

Ben needs to stop trying to pretend he's Liam Neeson in Taken.

 

Exactly.  Until now Ben refused to allow Grace to be an equal partner and was rationalizing it by saying he was trying to protect "the little woman" so she won't get hurt.  Huh?  NOT knowing what is going on would cause her to get hurt.  Or unknowingly screw things up like doing the rational thing like calling the cops when your child disappears like in this episode.

Of course he started this incident out with his usual "You screwed up.  How dare you call the cops!  You ruined everything.  Trust me" bullshit again until he finally HAD to let her in on the whole core subject matter that any spouse would share with their mate from the very first day.  But Ben is just a smug elitist control freak who has to be in charge of everything and everyone else and it is okay they stay in the dark and just obey his endless "trust me" "trust me" "trust me" "trust me" crap.

Of course now Olive he is leaving in the dark and doing the same "trust me" crap with.  So she will do something accidental to screw things up soon because she doesn't know everything she should know. I wish she or someone would finally stand up to him and say "Why the hell should I trust you when you don't trust me and always want to keep me in the dark."

(God I wish I had a dollar every time he patronizes one of these people with his endless "trust me" line.  I'd have me a free pizza and coke every Monday night from that alone).

And while we are at it why doesn't he just give his son a burn phone so the kid doesn't have to go through boxes and boxes of crayons and money he gets from wherever to take trains, buses and now even hitchhike with a stranger some the last few miles.  Instead he can just use his burner and ring up and say "Hey daddy, got a calling thingie.  Can you drive me upstate right away?"  God, Ben is both arrogant and totally 100% dumb.

In other news how is that poor Hungarian (was it) guy doing?  With Fiona gone will these people lose the use of the beach house?  What happened to the flight attendant and the stowaway?  And wasn't there an Indian doctor that looked like she would be a major character early in the season but does basically nothing now?  Can we never escape this Family of Screw-Ups and follow more interesting people around instead?

Edited by green
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6 hours ago, basiltherat said:

I see another time travel story has popped up, ala the sideways of Lost, but instead of a Frozen Donkey Wheel, we have a Frozen Hiker Zeke. 

Heh. At least one of us posters can find a bit of humor in this mess.

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@Green.  You bring up good points.  Ben has never sat Grace down and read her the Bible on Flight #828, BUT, has Grace ever sat BEN down and said, there's some weird shit going on around us and especially around Cal.  I see you and your sister conferring with others, especially that fine-ass Specialist that you keep texting, SO, what the fuck is happening?????  NO, she never did.  If someone has information that you feel you should need, you ask until you get the information that you want.  Grace seems to be stuck in "I don't know what to do" mode.  The only way to get out of that mode is ask fucking questions!!!!  NOT when your son is missing and presumed abducted, but when shit started happening like a freaking plane blowing up with a lot of the 828-er's standing around gawking.  What happened there?  Instead, she's bitching about Ben & Cal coming back from the dead and how hard it was for her in the beginning, so much so that she needed multiple MEN to come into the house with their own keys, just to help.  There's no rule that says Ben has to explain every little thing to her when she doesn't even seem curious enough to even ask?

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20 hours ago, Aryanna said:

I agree on the whole Grace is terrible thing. Ben says you kicked me out and she responds with and you left. What was he supposed to do? Argue with her and not leave?

She probably did want him to do that.  So far both Ben and Danny have offered to let the other guy have her and told her that it was the kids that were hard to let go of.

 

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

  Ben has never sat Grace down and read her the Bible on Flight #828, BUT, has Grace ever sat BEN down and said, there's some weird shit going on around us and especially around Cal.  I see you and your sister conferring with others, especially that fine-ass Specialist that you keep texting, SO, what the fuck is happening?????  NO, she never did. 

Grace actually did ask Ben in the hospital, but when she didn't like the beginnings of his answer she shut him down.

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Thanks to everyone here for your opinions, re-caps, etc.  You have made me very comfortable with my decision to erase all the previous episodes I had on my DVR and to cancel any future recordings.  It sounds like the show has become a hot mess. 

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7 hours ago, reallyjustjen said:

Was anyone able to tell what kind of magazine Zeke had, that featured a full page (at least) article with Michaela, and quotes from OIive (and others)?    An issue of Presumed Dead Disgraced Lady Cop monthly, or...?

Its the December 2017 issue of Celebrity Dossier Magazines and a retrospective about how there are still no answers about 828 going missing.

I don't get why the magazine would single out Michaela but it is kind of funny that Jared seems to have declined to participate.

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3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Its the December 2017 issue of Celebrity Dossier Magazines and a retrospective about how there are still no answers about 828 going missing.

I don't get why the magazine would single out Michaela but it is kind of funny that Jared seems to have declined to participate.

Seriously?  Is that what it was or are you joking?  If the showrunners and writers have gone so far as to have props set up with fictitious, intricate details, meanwhile deliberately seeding the Mani-verse with "Lost"-style Easter eggs and over-hyped triangle drama, we are truly

 

Lost.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Seriously?  Is that what it was or are you joking?  If the showrunners and writers have gone so far as to have props set up with fictitious, intricate details, meanwhile deliberately seeding the Mani-verse with "Lost"-style Easter eggs and over-hyped triangle drama, we are truly

 

Lost.jpg

That is what it said next to the date Ben read.

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7 hours ago, reallyjustjen said:

Was anyone able to tell what kind of magazine Zeke had, that featured a full page (at least) article with Michaela, and quotes from OIive (and others)?    An issue of Presumed Dead Disgraced Lady Cop monthly, or...?

Big mystery -- did Zeke find that magazine in the cave or did he bring it with him ?   The Celebrity Dossier Magazine cover had a picture of a Montego Air plane under the headline "Years and Still No Answers".  When the camera focused on the crumpled page that Zeke put on the fire the print on the page was in Latin.  Which is very mysterious.

The text on the page with Michaela's picture:
-- Michaela Stone -- In Our Words
-- We asked Michaela's friends and family to <illegible>in a few words
-- Here's what they said
-- Olive Stone -- "Amazing. Thoughtful. Beautiful and Trusting. Someone that would do anything for you."
-- Rector Haynes -- "Genuine. Confidant and ......."
-- Captain Riojas -- 
-- Grace Stone -- 
-- Lourdes Vasquez -- 
-- Jared Vasquez -- 

On that back of Michaela's magazine page, you can see "Love Always Finds a Way"
And at the bottom of the page, it shows a quote from Rector David Hynes (even though it was spelled 'Haynes' on the other side of the page).

And we finally have a date confirmation -- it's still Dec. 2018, and there is still no sign or mention of seasonal festivities anywhere.

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23 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

I don't understand how Ben didn't push Grace into traffic during their conversation on the street.

Honestly, I would have. That scene was totally jaw-dropping. Grace is just ughhhh.... I wish we could have a Grace-less episode.

Speaking of, another Saanvi-less episode, but looks like she may be back soon.

I liked the new twist with Zeke missing for a year. Also, yes, a Zeke-Michaela-Jared complication is looming... sigh.

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I don't hate Grace as much as some people, but Ben did try and tell her about all that has been going on at least twice and she said she didn't want to hear about any crazy plane stuff.  Yes, Ben could have tried harder to tell her, but she pretty much flipped out on him in the hospital when Cal was sick. She didn't want to listen to him, so it is hard to take her side on that. But I can sort of understand that she thought Ben was just crazy because he did sound crazy. But he and Cal just got transported through time after being declared dead, so maybe be a little more open?

However, her comment about how he moved out when she asked him to, that I don't think she has much leeway on. A person shouldn't demand their spouse leave the house if that's not what they want. No one can read minds (except maybe Cal).

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At least this show is educational.  I'm going to use some Grace argument techniques next time I am quarreling with someone. 

I did laugh when they were flipping through Cal's sketch book and Ben said, "And this [picture] is... ... us right now."

Cal could have just told Ben that he had a calling telling him to go to that remote cabin and they could have just gone together without all the dramatics and confusing clues.

So "find her" just turned out to be the mutterings of a delusional hypothermic hiker though it created a misdirect for three episodes.

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16 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So "find her" just turned out to be the mutterings of a delusional hypothermic hiker though it created a misdirect for three episodes.

Maybe not so delusional as the object of his search was there before him as he woke up from his whatever.  So, he had a calling to find his dream girl?  Good luck, Dude, prepare to share her in this crazy story.  Anyway, the coming attraction seemed to indicate that Brow and Icicle are two halves of an anointed pair.  Combine that with Cal, the Golden Child, we might have the makings of a new cult.

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53 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I did laugh when they were flipping through Cal's sketch book and Ben said, "And this [picture] is... ... us right now."

The first thing I thought of was that scene in Spaceballs where Moranis and crew plug in a videotape of Spaceballs and fast forward it to the current moment, and start watching themselves "live".

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3 hours ago, Camera One said:

So "find her" just turned out to be the mutterings of a delusional hypothermic hiker though it created a misdirect for three episodes

Shouldn't all of those countless "Find her" lines have been "Find me"? Maybe the script editor didn't know how to do a global edit-replace and thought it was too much trouble?

Do bits of tape heal frostbite on fingers?

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14 hours ago, green said:

Exactly.  Until now Ben refused to allow Grace to be an equal partner and was rationalizing it by saying he was trying to protect "the little woman" so she won't get hurt.  Huh?  NOT knowing what is going on would cause her to get hurt.  Or unknowingly screw things up like doing the rational thing like calling the cops when your child disappears like in this episode.

Of course he started this incident out with his usual "You screwed up.  How dare you call the cops!  You ruined everything.  Trust me" bullshit again until he final HAD to let her in on the whole core subject matter that any spouse would share with their mate from the very first day.  But Ben is just a smug elitist control freak who has to be in charge of everything and everyone else and it is okay they stay in the dark and just obey his endless "trust me" "trust me" "trust me" "trust me" crap.

Of course now Olive he is leaving in the dark and doing the same "trust me" crap to now.  So she will do something accidental to screw things up soon because she doesn't know everything she should know. I wish she or someone would finally stand up to him and say "Why the hell should I trust you when you don't trust me and always want to keep me in the dark."

(God I wish I had a dollar every time he patronizes one of these people with his endless "trust me" line.  I'd have me a free pizza and coke every Monday night from that alone).

And while we are at it why doesn't he just give his son a burn phone so the kid doesn't have to go through boxes and boxes of crayons and money he gets from wherever to take trains, buses and now even hitchhike with a stranger some the last few miles.  Instead he can just use his burner and ring up and say "Hey daddy, got a calling thingie.  Can you drive me upstate right away?"  God, Ben is both arrogant and totally 100% dumb.

In other news how is that poor Hungarian (was it) guy doing?  With Fiona gone will these people lose the use of the beach house?  What happened to the flight attendant and the stowaway?  And wasn't there an Indian doctor that looked like she would be a major character early in the season but does basically nothing now?  Can we never escape this Family of Screw-Ups and follow more interesting people around instead?

And my point is that we do not know Ben's backstory.  If he was chasing windmills to save Cal when with the cancer diagnosis, then it explains why Grace won't listen and why Ben acts the way he does.  We don't really have enough information to hate either character, yet.  And both characters are stupid and annoying because they aren't listening to one another.  But even that it slightly explained by the fact that their entire trip 5 years ago was to save their marriage.  They weren't in the same place then, and they aren't now. 

 

Ben may yet turn out to be a dick.  Which would be sad, because I like the actor.  But I do not like the Ben and Grace together.  They are just awful to each other and need to be apart unless they can both grow a pair and start acting like adults.

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10 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And we finally have a date confirmation -- it's still Dec. 2018, and there is still no sign or mention of seasonal festivities anywhere.

Maybe this stupid family only celebrates Festivus these days and they only run out and get their metal pole at the last minute.

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