S04.E10: The Children

[Myriad]

I liked the ending scene with Arya on the boat.  It was beautifully shot, and looking at this while listening to the music helped with digesting all that went on during the episode.  It was an intense finale, lots of stuff going on, lots of little tears running down my cheeks.

 

There will be a rewatch where details stand out more, but for now I'm not ready to think that Tyrion killed Shae in self-defense.  While she did try to attack first, the violence on Tyrion's part looked to me like sheer desperation, humiliation, an bold emotional move.  Shae, who he had tried to protect from death, was by now at her second treason.  The way he said "I'm sorry" twice after the fact sold it for me, show-wise, that he fully intended to kill her no matter whether she grabbed the knife or not.

 

Not consequent to that but related, a TV show with so many villains/gray characters needs to have good people to keep the audience.  Their good person was beheaded in S1, and there hasn't been any since.  My thinking is that seeing how Dinklage became wildly popular, he was then their chosen anchor for this goal.  They kind of did the same with Sansa, too, although Dinklage's charisma is by far the strongest one.

[Brn2bwild]

I did like Dany's interaction with the tutor. Yes Dani freed the slaves, but seems to have no idea on how to restructure the society and economy. "For those of us that are too old to change...." Her suggestion to allow for contracts was probably the best on the spot decision she could've made. But yes her buttocks needs to start to RULE.

 

Wouldn't his master be dead, along with all the others?  I thought that bit was odd.

[Winnief]

 

Not consequent to that but related, a TV show with so many villains/gray characters needs to have good people to keep the audience.  Their good person was beheaded in S1, and there hasn't been any since.  My thinking is that seeing how Dinklage became wildly popular, he was then their chosen anchor for this goal.  They kind of did the same with Sansa, too, although Dinklage's charisma is by far the strongest one.

 

Agreed.  You can argue it's a disservice to BookTyrion, but fact is there's no point in watching a tv show where there's absolutely nobody you can root for.  Tell the truth, that's been an increasingly big problem in the books as well.

[Scarlett45]

Wouldn't his master be dead, along with all the others? I thought that bit was odd.

They didn't kill all the masters- just an equal number to the crucified slave children- 163 or something like that. If Meereen has a couple million people there are probably several thousand masters.

[kieyra]

Agreed.  You can argue it's a disservice to BookTyrion, but fact is there's no point in watching a tv show where there's absolutely nobody you can root for.  Tell the truth, that's been an increasingly big problem in the books as well.

You've both hit the nail on the head. The fact of the matter is, I found the later books pretty unbearable, and Amazon 's reviews tell me I'm not alone. If they attempted to follow them as evenly as they've followed the first few (within reason), those record ratings would decline. I'm not as solid in my book-lore as some, but there was just so much in the last two that really made me question if GRRM is capable of pulling his threads back together or if he's just going to keep creating new characters and new plots indefinitely. (I realize I'm saying nothing new here, but the take-away is that if they don't change certain things for TV, the show won't continue its popularity. And at the very least they aren't shying away from the body count.)

[benteen]

I have to admit, I have no idea what to think of Leaf hurling fireballs during the wight battle.  I was like WTF when that happened.

 

Stannis and Jon interacted well but I thought Stannis and Mance had some serious chemistry going on there.  Cieran Hands (Hey, I just realized he has the same initials as Coldhands!) might have been gone for a long time  but sure made the most of his screentime tonight.  THAT was Mance Rayder!

Edited June 16, 2014 by benteen

[Mya Stone]

 

Stannis and Jon interacted well but I thought Stannis and Mance had some serious chemistry going on there.  Cieran Hands (Hey, I just realized he has the same initials as Coldhands!) might have been gone for a long time  but sure made the most of his screentime tonight.  THAT was Mance Rayder!

 

Yes! "We do not kneel" indeed. 

[jjjmoss]

My thinking is that seeing how Dinklage became wildly popular, he was then their chosen anchor for this goal.  They kind of did the same with Sansa, too, although Dinklage's charisma is by far the strongest one.

 

Well, Tyrion and Jon have by far the most chapters. So I don't think the writers changed things about him because of Dinklage being "wildly popular" or because of "Dinklage's charisma."

Tyrion has about 100% more chapters than Sansa, so it's not like the writers had the same amount of material for the two of them to build upon.

[LilWharveyGal]

 

Ugh, I hated the "where do whores go..." in the book. I hope it doesn't come up in the show!

 

I just hope the void isn't filled by 14,759 more games of cyvasse.

 

 

Yeah, I'd been thinking that by just having Lady Stoneheart not speak, they wouldn't need to put Fairley's name in the opening credits. Years and years ago, the show Angel famously concealed the surprise appearance of a character by not having her speak, so that they didn't have to have the actress's name showing up spoiling viewers.

 

I was wondering about that, but Rose Leslie was credited in this episode and she didn't speak.

[Unknown poster]

I assume the Jamie/Cersai scene is going to be the catalyst for their big falling out. That was pure manipulation on her part. She threatens Tywin with the nuclear option, then tells Jamie just what he has always wanted to hear, to win him as an ally (for what, remains to be seen). But now that the only person with the desire, and the power to see the Cersai/Loras marriage happen dead, I think Jamie will be in for a rather rude awakening.

[AuntTora]

The way the show is dismissing so many plot points and whole storylines from the books exposes a lot of them as red herrings, I'd think GRRM is having some trouble writing another thick book full of them, when readers know they're going nowhere.

[benteen]

I would guess that Brienne and Pod will run into Gendry on the road at some point.  Gendry has become another character who has disappeared for a full season.

 

I think saving Jon's leadership and his choice between Winterfell and the Watch was a good idea for next season.  Gives him a little more to do.

Edited June 16, 2014 by benteen

[Unknown poster]

I just hope the void isn't filled by 14,759 more games of cyvasse.

 

 

I was wondering about that, but Rose Leslie was credited in this episode and she didn't speak.

Jack Gleeson also made the opening credits in episode 3. I doubt if/when they bring back Michelle Fairley that she will be in the open, anyway. Unless they really expand on LS, she seems like a "guest star" type.

[Black Knight]

I was wondering about that, but Rose Leslie was credited in this episode and she didn't speak.

 

Rose Leslie was on contract for this season, though, whereas had Fairley come back for this episode, she probably would have done so in a guest star capacity as her contract ended last season. I think if you're a contract player, it doesn't matter if your face is flashed once onscreen, your name shows in the opening.

 

I think Varys going with Tyrion is a good change. Their dynamic will liven up the scenes of Tyrion traveling. I'm one of the lonesome few that enjoyed the travelogue chapters, but I realize that's not going to work for a TV show. (Although I do hope we get to see some visuals.)

[Pete Martell]

I was disappointed with the way they unceremoniously dispatched Jojen. I know he didn't have much left in the books any way, but it was a little harsh to end him that way. I think both he and Shae got lost in the shuffle.

My problem with ending on Arya really has to do we both how the whole season was paced. This season had tons of major character moments and shocks to work with, and it seems a lot of them were rushed or poorly placed. With all of the things they could have emphasized, they chose Arya going to Braavos. I wasn't even expecting Stoneheart by then, because they seem to have a knack for stepping all over moments that should be shocking. I just think Arya deciding to become a faceless man isn't the triumphant note they seemed to think it was. Particularly when that storyline increasingly feels like a time waster keeping Arya away from all the real action.

 

I thought Jojen's death scene was anticlimactic, which was really my main irritation. He pretty much lived and died for Bran. I tend to feel, looking back, that the midseason episodes were probably his real goodbye. I liked these scenes, overall, and I especially liked the bits with Meera having to choose between dying with him and going with Bran and Hodor (was Summer in the cave with them?), but the death part was...perfunctory. 

 

I don't know what to say about Shae, because they abandoned most of the characterization they'd built up for her and she had become just a plot device for Tyrion, as she had been in the books (apparently). I get why Shae went for the knife, as the last time she saw Tyrion he was unhinged, but again it wasn't really about her. We didn't get to hear her talk about why she'd slept with Tywin, or about anything. She was just there to die, and I guess to push Tyrion to the point of murdering Tywin. 

 

I actually like the idea of the last scene being Arya because she is 100% having a new start, a new path (although even to the end she was trying to at least reunite with Jon, which made me sad), but I agree with you about the pacing. I now wonder if they dragged out her story all season long just for that shot.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Pete Martell

[benteen]

I thought Jojen's death scene was anticlimactic, which was really my main irritation. He pretty much lived and died for Bran. I tend to feel, looking back, that the midseason episodes were probably his real goodbye. I liked these scenes, overall, and I especially liked the bits with Meera having to choose between dying with him and going with Bran and Hodor (was Summer in the cave with them?), but the death part was...perfunctory. 

 

I don't know what to say about Shae, because they abandoned most of the characterization they'd built up for her and she had become just a plot device for Tyrion, as she had been in the books (apparently). I get why Shae went for the knife, as the last time she saw Tyrion he was unhinged, but again it wasn't really about her. We didn't get to hear her talk about why she'd slept with Tywin, or about anything. She was just there to die, and I guess to push Tyrion to the point of murdering Tywin. 

 

I actually like the idea of the last scene being Arya because she is 100% having a new start, a new path (although even to the end she was trying to at least reunite with Jon, which made me sad), but I agree with you about the pacing. I now wonder if they dragged out her story all season long just for that shot.

 

The thing about Shae reminds me of what has been said here about other storylines.  How Thrones changes certain things (Yara trying to free Theon for one) but still coming to the same exact result.  They made Shae more sympathetic but still had her be a golddigger who sold Tyrion out and slept with Tywin.  Now true, Brienne met Arya and it still ended with Arya going to Braavos.  But I thought that scene was much better than what we got in the book even though the end is the same.  But yeah, this show has a tendency to the way things happen but ultimately to end up with the same result in the books.

 

Jojen's death was awkward (and yeah, still don't know what to think about the fireballs, a true WTF? moment for me) but I was okay with it because it was pretty much assumed he was dead in the books.

Edited June 16, 2014 by benteen

[Myriad]

Well, Tyrion and Jon have by far the most chapters. So I don't think the writers changed things about him because of Dinklage being "wildly popular" or because of "Dinklage's charisma."

Tyrion has about 100% more chapters than Sansa, so it's not like the writers had the same amount of material for the two of them to build upon.

The conversation was about "St. Tyrion" on television vs book Tyrion, not about how many chapters and how much material D&D have to work with.

 

Jon has a lot going both in the books and the series, yet he's not very popular with the TV audience, because many complain about Kit's apparent lack of acting chops - and forever open mouth (I disagree, but it's like a mainstream opinion anyway.)  See the many negative reactions to an entire episode dedicated to him last week.   Audience response is capital for a network, hence Dinklage's character made more sympathetic - is what I think, not saying it's gospel.  Like Winnief said, viewers need someone to root for.  It doesn't quite work with Jon but it does with Tyrion.  I may be talking bananas, but they're bananas based on some logic. ;)

[Greta]

Isn't it possible to waive your contractual right to appear in the opening credits, probably in return for an extra fee of some kind? 

 

I've quite miffed about the end. They could have cut the Tysha reveal or they could have cut Shae's "my lion"/Tyrion's resulting snapping and I probably would have been fine. But cutting both just cut the heart out of what should have been epic part of Tyrion's arc.

 

And if, as someone above suggested, Tysha shows up next season to clue Tyrion in, I will shoot my TV if her focus is on how bad and mean Jaime was for lying while pitying poor Tyrion for having to participate in his non-whore wife's gang rape.  Peter Dinklage is more than capable of showing the darker, self-centered side of Tyrion who could listen to Tysha spitting venom at him and latch onto only the part about HE was betrayed by his brother.

[jjjmoss]

Dinklage's character made more sympathetic

 

Mmm, my take on it is that D&D are in love with Saint Tyrion so don't want to tarnish the audience's view of him as Saint Tyrion. And that Saint Tyrion has always been their vision for his character, and that they didn't push this persona of his just cuz they read the Internet and found that people like him a lot. Writers who change things because of what some of their audience says generally ruin their product.

Edited June 16, 2014 by jjjmoss

[Myriad]

Isn't it possible to waive your contractual right to appear in the opening credits, probably in return for an extra fee of some kind? 

I'd actually be very curious to know.  I remember that during the LOST years, credits would always appear no matter what, supposedly due to whatever laws you have in the U.S. regarding credits needing to appear at the beginning of a show, and reading them was like reading spoilers.  ("OMG, Frank is not dead!!"  Frank appears.  "Welp, I kinda had a clue, didn't I?")  Have the laws changed since then?  It would be neat to know.

Writers who change things because of what some of their audience says generally ruin their product.

Matthew Weiner liked this post

[Pete Martell]

The conversation was about "St. Tyrion" on television vs book Tyrion, not about how many chapters and how much material D&D have to work with.

 

Jon has a lot going both in the books and the series, yet he's not very popular with the TV audience, because many complain about Kit's apparent lack of acting chops - and forever open mouth (I disagree, but it's like a mainstream opinion anyway.)  See the many negative reactions to an entire episode dedicated to him last week.   Audience response is capital for a network, hence Dinklage's character made more sympathetic - is what I think, not saying it's gospel.  Like Winnief said, viewers need someone to root for.  It doesn't quite work with Jon but it does with Tyrion.  I may be talking bananas, but they're bananas based on some logic. ;)

 

If the show cared about complaints on the Internet, they'd have shut up shop a long time ago. That's where most of the grousing came from. The ratings were still pretty good, considering the competition that night. Whether HBO or D&D expected more, I can't say. 

 

I'm not really sure how the viewers feel about Jon. To be honest I don't think he's had all that much to do in the TV show. After a very promising first season, he spent two full seasons walking around and, to be crude, getting some ass. The show also seems reluctant to commit to the idea of him as a strong leader. They hinted at this in the first season, but since then he's been much younger and impulsive. I assume they are doing this so his growth will occur more in the coming seasons, and also because they don't care that much about the NW, but it takes something of a toll on the character.

 

I will say that I'm very glad they added (?) the scene of him giving Ygritte a Viking funeral. I thought that was very respectful to both characters and their love for each other, and takes away from the disturbing "lol dumb <slur slur slur> got what she deserved!" attitude that many fans have toward women on this show.

 

It's too bad they won't do the same for Shae...

Edited June 16, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Skeeter22]

The thing about Shae reminds me of what has been said here about other storylines. How Thrones changes certain things (Yara trying to free Theon for one) but still coming to the same exact result. They made Shae more sympathetic but still had her be a golddigger who sold Tyrion out and slept with Tywin. Now true, Brienne met Arya and it still ended with Arya going to Braavos. But I thought that scene was much better than what we got in the book even though the end is the same. But yeah, this show has a tendency to the way things happen but ultimately to end up with the same result in the book.

I was left completely puzzled by Shae's betrayal of Tyrion and Sansa, and her ending up in Tywin's bed. They could have at least given her some dialogue. No wonder the actress complained about having Shae throw Sansa under the bus. There was no reason and no payoff. She only existed as a prop in that scene.

The Hound bringing up Sansa to taunt Arya also made little sense on the show. He doesn't have much of a connection with her, which I am completely fine with, and he and Arya never even refer to her. They could have at least been told about Sansa and Tyrion's marriage and her disappearance when they heard about Joffrey's death. That way they might have had some set up for the Hound recalling the incident with he during Blackwater.

[Pete Martell]

The Hound bringing up Sansa to taunt Arya also made little sense on the show. He doesn't have much of a connection with her, which I am completely fine with, and he and Arya never even refer to her. They could have at least been told about Sansa and Tyrion's marriage and her disappearance when they heard about Joffrey's death. That way they might have had some set up for the Hound recalling the incident with he during Blackwater.

 

I was confused by this too, but I finally just decided that as she's Arya's only living relative that they know of, aside from Jon and a few uncles, and the only one he knew, he was trying to goad Arya into killing. Although him saying he should have fucked Edmure bloody would have had a more interesting reaction shot from Arya...

[benteen]

The Hound should have brought up Sansa at some point, that was a mistake.  Though I understood why he said those things about Sansa because he was trying to goad Arya into killing him.

 

Shae does quietly say "My Lion" and then "Tywin" when she wakes up in bed.

Edited June 16, 2014 by benteen

[Pogojoco]

Well, that was something. 

 

The knock down, drag out between the Hound and Brienne of "Fucking" Tarth was pretty amazing. First with swords and then with fists and teeth. And then she still had enough energy to yell at Pod. 

 

Arya and the Hound together were great, right to the end. Bringing up Mycah and Sansa ("at least I would've had one happy memory") Also, bellowing "KILL ME!" at her while she stared coldly and walked away.

 

Stannis and Mance talking- that doesn't happen "on screen' in the books, but it's good to see them face to face, if only to have Hinds and Dillane stare at each other meaningfully. I was a little sad there was no wife/sister in law in that tent, but a birth happening would make no sense. Maybe (hopefully) Val shows up at the Wall with the baby and a story. Also, introducing Val right after Jon burns Ygritte would be too soon. I want some Jon threatening Gilly and some baby switching. And some rejecting of Winterfell/wife for the Watch, and that hanging around to taunt him later. Plus, she's hot and amusing. 

 

I realize Jojen doesn't do all that much once they get to Bloodraven, but I never expected him to go out like that, so early. We never got the tourney at Harenhall story- but Howland Reed is a major card GRRM hasn't yet played (when it comes to the Jon parentage question) so it's likely going to come up later. Or not. 

 

No Coldhands might lay to rest the idea that floats around that Coldhands was Benjen Stark. 

 

Tyrion and Jamie. Cersei and Tywin (his face when she told him the truth.) And I didn't see Tyrion's killing of Shae to be self defense. He was pretty much making the move (processing information into anger) and she reached for the knife in response. Charles Dance- even on the privy- was completely in control and still trying to negotiate. That scene was amazing. 

Edited June 17, 2014 by Pogojoco

[Mr. Simpatico]

My biggest takeaway from the finale is that for the second season in a row Game of Thrones had a chance to end it with a big giant "Holy Shit, it's Lady Stoneheart!" moment (and at this point that is as much a spoiler for the fandom as Rosebud being a sled) and D&D still didn't do it. Even though they know pretty much everyone knows its coming (are they going to save it from some random scene in episode 5 next season?)

 

That's not even going into eliminating Tysha's real story, or the offing of Jojen (still alive in the books, no?) or making Stannis most triumphal moment in the books take all of two minutes of screen time and you get one giant clusterf!ck of a season finale.

 

Also could the producers/writers (who are the same) make their mancrush on Tyrion be any less obvious? At least George RR Martin (who admits Tyrion is his favorite character) gives the character shades of grey here and there. Here you have a situation where in the books Tyrion straight up murders/strangles Shae to one where he not only does after a struggle with her but had her (out of something of the Golden Age of Hollywood Production code) attack first thus justifying what he's done. We still are never given a clue as to what Shae's true characters was. In the books, we can see that she's just a courtesan and that Tyrion has been imagining things that aren't there but the show has given us her attachment to Sansa and Tyrion when no one else is looking, no sign of the deals Cersei offered her in the books and not even an explanation (even Book!Shae tried to explain herself before Tyrion killed her).

 

Has the show given up all pretence of following the book in the basest of plot points at all at this point?

[AuntiePam]

Big meh from me, on the big stuff anyway.  I liked Mance and Jon, Arya and The Hound, and Varys scuttling aboard the ship, but that's it.  I think even if I hadn't read the books, Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae wouldn't have been a surprise.  It was a given.  The writers failed to show any inner turmoil on Tyrion's part, and they could have done that by giving Shae some dialogue, and by earlier, making Tywin be just a teensy bit sorry about condemning his son to death. 

[Pete Martell]

My biggest takeaway from the finale is that for the second season in a row Game of Thrones had a chance to end it with a big giant "Holy Shit, it's Lady Stoneheart!" moment (and at this point that is as much a spoiler for the fandom as Rosebud being a sled) and D&D still didn't do it. Even though they know pretty much everyone knows its coming (are they going to save it from some random scene in episode 5 next season?)

 

I wonder how many viewers know about her and how many would still be shocked. 

[coolbreeze]

Yeah, I'd been thinking that by just having Lady Stoneheart not speak, they wouldn't need to put Fairley's name in the opening credits. Years and years ago, the show Angel famously concealed the surprise appearance of a character by not having her speak, so that they didn't have to have the actress's name showing up spoiling viewers. I thought Stoneheart should have been in last year's finale, so I'm really disappointed that she's not in this finale either. Dammit! I was so excited for Stoneheart in this finale that I spent half of today watching Red Wedding reaction videos.

 

Where to credit a character is always a matter of negotiation between the producer's and the actor's reps.  It doesn't matter if they speak or not.  There have been other shows that have kept an actor's credit to the end to keep their appearance a surprise.

 

I am feeling really disappointed they didn't end with LSH.  Maybe tomorrow I'll feel different, but tonight, kinda majorly bummed.

[kcbuckeye2]

So evidently Cersei wasn't fucking Lancel, the Kettelblacks and Moonboy.  And no Tysha story either...how disappointing.

[Black Knight]

You know, I do think Shae attacking Tyrion immediately makes more sense than what went down in the book. She thinks he murdered his own young nephew. She betrayed him during the trial, and now he catches her in his father's bed? Ain't no talking getting her out of that. If he were a man of normal size, then she'd try talking because even though the odds of that working are poor, the odds of her winning a physical struggle are even poorer. But with someone of Tyrion's size, I think the smart play is to go on offense. But at the same time, it also makes his being able to kill her more believable, because she's engaged in trying to kill him rather than getting away. I never really got how he was able to kill her in the book - so she's lying in bed, and he grabs the Hand chain she's wearing, and manages to strangle her even though she could easily pick him up and toss him away? (In another chapter, Cersei picks him up and spins him around in the air like a kid, so it's established that he's of small enough size and weight for a woman to manage that.) It only sorta works on the page because that's not visual, but I don't think it would work on TV, much like how they found that the book portrayal of Dany and Drogo's wedding night didn't work when they tried to film it that way.

 

I wonder how many viewers know about her and how many would still be shocked.

After all the screaming on Twitter and Tumblr, and James Hibberd of EW writing an entire spoilery article about it, I'm guessing a lot more viewers know about her now. I've already seen a lot of people making comments about having googled Lady Stoneheart (and then getting pissed about her absence once they find out who she is).

Edited June 16, 2014 by Black Knight

[Growsonwalls]

I kind of like that they didn't give Shae time to explain herself. The idea was to emphasize Tyrion's shock and betrayal. And I like that it gave Shae's character and motives some ambiguity. Personally I think Shae did care about Sansa and Tyrion -- as long as it was okay to care about them. But if Tywin Lannister comes to her with an offer, can she refuse it? And after Joffrey's death, Shae had to pick a side. She went with where the money and power were. 

[Haldebrandt]

Even with the significant book-related disappointments, I must say that was an excellent episode, and -- though it's faint praise -- easily and by far the best finale yet.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Haldebrandt

[DropTheSoap]

I was also hoping for Lady Stoneheart to appear for this episode. Mostly because the person I generally watch the show with hates Catelyn Stark. I don't give her book spoilers, so I think she'll be surprised, and annoyed, and I'll find it all amusing.

 

The Hound/Brienne fight was very worthwhile. Better than leaving him after the tavern fight. I'd have thought near the hound would be a natural place to search for Arya, but I guess not. 

 

I'm kind of glad they're going off-book for some things. Introspection works well on a page if written well, but tough to do on a screen.

 

Looking forward to what's going to happen next season.

[Maximum Taco]

Jack Gleeson also made the opening credits in episode 3. I doubt if/when they bring back Michelle Fairley that she will be in the open, anyway. Unless they really expand on LS, she seems like a "guest star" type.

 

Exactly.

 

When/If Michelle Fairley returns (please be when and not if) she probably won't be a main cast member and they can put her at the end. For instance Pedro Pascal was never in the opening credits even though he had a very extensive role this season, because he was never promoted to main cast.

 

In regards to the episode, it felt very anticlimactic. The visuals were great, especially of Stannis' Army and Bran's scene, but I was expecting something with a little more umph. Stoneheart would've been that, but even with her out of it everything still felt a little lacking, especially for an episode where so many things happened.

 

I did love Bran's scenes, and the Brienne/Hound fight was one of the best the show has done so far though.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[dr pepper]

This episode left me crying.

 

Up until this episode i have mostly preferred the book version of each scene. But this one, i'd say 99% of it was better. And they packed an astonishing amount of material into it without shortchanging us.

 

When i first saw that it was called The Children, i figured it was a reference to the aboriginal fairies, who are called The Children of the Forest in legends. But then we got Cercei standing up to her father and then her confrontation/reconciliation with Jamie, i thought no it means literal children and how they complicate things. Then the Mother of Dragons had to confront what her "children" really were, the technology of a lost civilization and she doesn't have the instruction manual.

 

And then at the end, they threw in a fairy as well.

 

Also:

 

Stannis and his knights run over the wildings. We all had wondered how they could fit in anymore combat scenes. Answer, no combat, just the running over.

 

Brienne reaching the Eyrie. Nicely postponed.

 

The apparent death of the Hound. Well done, and he gets one more chance at a real fight.

 

Arya taking leave of the Hound. Well done, and in a way it fits the "children" theme too, because he had become an accidental father figure to her, and by stealing his money she showed that she had learned from him.

 

Minor nit in that turning the meeting into a fight was a bit contrived. Why wouldn't the Hound welcome the chance to make Arya someone else's problem. I think it would be more like "you want to take care of her, take her. but give me some &^%$#@! gold so i can get something out of the time i've put in".

 

Arya going to Braavos. Well done.

 

Jaime and Tyrion, and Tyrion's escape. Well done.

 

Tyrion killing Shae. Good. Poignant. Wish there'd been more dialog. Tyrion killing Tywin. Perfect.

 

Bran reaches the far north, meets the operator at the primary network terminal. Plenty of tension, action, and spookiness. But those skeletons were strictly from Harryhausen, which gave it a jarring note of camp.

[GreyBunny]

Loved the Jaime-Tyrion conversation much more in the TV show than in the books, no fight, just a touching goodbye.  Well done with Tywin.  This is the 4th season finale that I've seen this year with a "*kill*-I'm sorry" scene and it tugs on me every time. *sniff*

 

STANNIS!  Loved the shot of Mel seeing Jon through the flames.
 

Brienne finally finds a Stark!  She loses her but she did find one briefly!  Loved the fight with Clegane.  

 

I liked that Jon gave Ygritte her northern funeral.  Poor fella.

 

BLOODRAVEN! *heart bubbles*  Poor Jojen, but at least he doesn't end up paste (allegedly).

 

I'm very pleased that someone besides Dany gets the ending victory shot.

[jeansheridan]

So satisfying!  Arya and Brienne meeting was the best.  Jaime saving Tyrion and a warm goodbye.  A balanced episode.  Just so good!

[Minneapple]

I think being in the credits is a case-by-case basis. I know NCIS left Ralph Waite out of the credits when he appeared as Jackson Gibbs in one episode, to keep the surprise element. I wasn't really expecting Stoneheart but was a little disappointed when she didn't appear.

The characterizations of show Jaime and show Cersei continue to annoy me, even though I complain about this every week and know they've been changed from the books. Cersei Lannister worried about her kids as her children, not as pieces she can use to gain power but in a motherly way? Admitting her relationship with Jaime to her father? Just no. That is about as far from Book Cersei as you can get.

I knew they'd have to Do Something to make killing Shae be Okay for Tyrion. I liked the hug between Jaime and Tyrion, but I think it lacked the raw emotional power of Jaime's confession about Tysha in the book and the way they parted with Tyrion still angry. Also, I think it's very interesting that they left in Tywin's "you are no son of mine" line to Tyrion.

I may have teared up a bit when Dany chained up her dragons.

Overall a pretty good finale. I'm kind of looking forward to and at the same time not looking forward to next season, since we'll probably be getting into Winds of Winter territory and I'm not thrilled with the idea of the reverse-spoilage. Get your ass writing, GRRM!

[AbFabGab]

Wouldn't his master be dead, along with all the others?  I thought that bit was odd.

 

In one of the previous episodes, she sent Dario to another town as an ambassador to tell the masters what would happen (death) if they didn't free their slaves, after Jorah suggested killing all of the masters might not be the best way to gain support. Guessing that the tutor is from one of those towns where masters voluntarily surrendered their slaves, but I'm not a book reader so I don't know if that's something that was changed for TV.

Edited June 16, 2014 by AbFabGab

[patchwork]

This season feels like it was resetting the board characters were either being moved to their new place or were delayed so their plotline didn't outpace anyone else's.  Necessary but all in all the execution was a bit dull.

 

Are the female vocals on the theme tune as Arya left new? I can't remember hearing it before.

 

I assume the fire was dragonfire which makes two things that can kill White Walkers. Yay.

 

If Shae reaching for the knife was an attempt to excuse Tyrion killing her then it failed spectacularly in my case. Yes she picked up a knife but she didn't move to attack him. The knife was for self defence because the last time she saw him Tyrion was foaming at the mouth, wishing he could poison them all. 

 

I'm disappointed with what the show did with Shae this season, they still could have got her to lie in court and share Tywin's bed without sacrificing 3 seasons of characterisation. Tywin and Cersei just had to make deals with her after Tyrion sent her away. 

 

The dragons' roars turning into baby cries as Dany walked away had me tearing up. 

Edited June 16, 2014 by patchwork

[jeansheridan]

Regarding Dany locking up her dragons.  Her neglect of them is spectacular in the books.  These mystical creatures she barely interacts with once she starts conquering cities.  She doesn't even get them an educated nanny.  How does one train a Dragon?  She only thinks about it at the end of book five!  

 

I have always hated how most characters see the dragons as WMDs and not as frakking awesome creations.  

 

I am shallow but Jaime looked beyond handsome during their tryst.  Yum.  

 

Ciarand Hinds rules!  I swear he has the largest face in films.  Maybe Brenden Gleeson matches.  Could Gleeson be Lord Manderley?

 

I think I may be  the one person who hopes Lady Stoneheart never shows up.  I hate Zombie-Cat.  But she probably will.  I guess she makes a good rallying point for the North.  I just dislike non talking revenge stereotypes.  

[InsertWordHere]

The Arya/Brienne meeting and Brienne/Hound fight was the best kind of fanservice and probably my favorite part of the episode. Since I subscribe to the theory that Brienne and the Clegane brothers (and Hodor of course) are all descended from Dunk, that added another element to the fight for me. I do think the fight would have gone differently if the Hound hadn't been wounded, but damn Brienne kicked ass. 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about Jojen's death. It's always been a pretty sure thing both in the show and the book that he wouldn't make it out of the North, but this does feel like a reverse book spoiler. I did like that they went from Meera performing a mercy kill on him to Arya refusing to do so for the Hound.

Edited June 16, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[Jamoche]

I liked the final shot being Arya sailing off - my reaction was "finally, we're going to move on from having various characters wander around Westeros and get the plot moving".

[RapBert]

My favourite part of the episode was the fight with the skeletons. Holy shit, that was awesome! Jojen's death was a bit meh though.

 

Stannis' arrival was a lot more anticlimactic than in the books. Still great to see him. Loved the scene with him and Mance.

 

I did not like all the King's Landing stuff. Jamie and Cersei, and especially Tyrion's scenes. I guess since Varys is coming with Tyrion, the whole fake Aegon plot will be cut.

 

All the scenes with Arya were great as well. I thought the fight scene was a bit over the top, mostly because of Brienne's constant screaming.

[Wilowy]

Harryhausen. Ray Harryhausen. And high five to you for saying it, NotWisconsin. 

[SheWasNoWhore]

[ElizaD]

So disappointed by the lack of Stoneheart. They did the Red Wedding, the big moment, and then switched their attention back to King's Landing and Lannister filler scenes.

 

On the bright side, though, Brienne/Sandor was a great fight. A book deviation that led to some amazing visuals. And Bloodraven was filmed in a wonderfully creepy way too.

 

I wish the scene with the child's bones had lasted longer and felt more weighty, but finally Emilia Clarke got something to do other than shout in languages (which she does well, but it's gotten terribly repetitive). Actual emotion!

 

No Sansa; her 4x08 did feel like a natural ending to her season. But they've made so many odd decisions about timing and structuring this season; Stannis is just the most obvious one right now, with the decision to have some early filler in 4x09 and push his arrival to the anticlimactic beginning of 4x10. The recap spoiled it anyway, even more so than Dillane's name in the credits would have done (how many casual viewers know who plays Stannis?).

 

I never found the death of Tywin interesting or satisfying in the books. He was killed by Tyrion, a scumbag who was ready to go along with or accept the rapes and murders Tywin ordered when he profited from them. Tyrion only turned on Tywin when he discovered a 14-year-old who'd been brutally gangraped had loved him (so it was about his pain, not hers). The showrunners might want the characters to be more rootable than in the books, but it's a shame that they read the chapters of a vindictive, selfish, misogynistic asshole like Tyrion and think that he's the one who should be made into the show's "moral center" and a courteous gentleman; they certainly haven't applied that principle of rootability evenly, Stannis has had all his positives erased and Jaime alternates between the extremes of Tyrion's loving brother and rapist/cousin-killer who loves violence. But however pandering the writing of Tyrion has been, Dinklage and Dance have been great to watch.

[yellowfred]

So, add me to the list of people once again dissappointed that we didn't get Lady Stoneheart.  I was expecting her right up to the very end.  I mean, it seemed like it would have been so fitting for Arya to be sailing away from Westeros, believing she has no family left, then to cut directly to the reveal that her mother is sort of alive again.  I think the impact of that last scene was lost on me, much like it was last year, because I kept expecting there to be one more.  That being said, I really did like the way that it was shot, with her going from looking back at Westeros and all she's leaving behind to looking forward to whatever new things are coming. 

 

I also didn't think that Tyrion acted in self-defense with Shae.  It wasn't like he was going to give her a polite kiss goodbye.  He wasn't that close to her when she reached for the knife (something I'm fairly certain she did to defend herself), so if he had intentions other than killing her, he could have just backed away.  He didn't.  Personally, I'm glad that they had her put up a good fight, because I don't think it would have been in character for her to just lie there and let herself be strangled to death.

 

I actually kind of hated the fight between Brienne and the Hound.  Visually, it was really impressive, and it was nice to get to see both of them in action again, but I tend to get annoyed whenever two characters fight for no reason other than poor communication skills.  Like, I can understand the Hound not trusting her, but I'm dissappointed that Brienne wouldn't try to make a better case for herself or at least back down when she saw that Arya trusted the Hound and that he was willing to protect her.  Like, did she honestly expect that Arya would just want to leave with her after that fight?  It just seemed like really poor judgement on her part (also, poor searching skills, but that's another matter entirely).  I'm proud of Arya for taking the money, though.

[GreyBunny]

I'm not the least bit sorry there was no Stoneheart. I hated Cat Stark and don't care to see her again in any form.  There are other ways to wipe out Freys.