S05.E17: The Most Terrible Thing

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2019.01.09

Quote

An unexpected turn among the settlers leaves Floki powerless.  Alfred confronts Judith as Bjorn must strike a deal with Harald in York.  Wessex is once again threatened by a Viking force but who will lead the Saxon army?

[ihartcoffee]

Iceland is so depressing,  good Lord....

[ihartcoffee]

And she jumps,  I totally sympathize with how she felt after watching that...

[tennisgurl]

"I have an unfortunate habit of saying things that are true" Yeah, sass her, Torvi! She looks great in more Anglo style clothes, and while we didnt get to see much of her and Ubbe, I am excited to see them working with Alfred and kicking ass and taking names. They and Alfred are all on the same page as of now, Alfred probably trusts Ubbe more than he trusts his same age mother as of now. Understandably, as Ubbe has never killed any of his family members. 

I am so sick of Judith and her bullshit. Yeah, Alfred is different than a normal person, but you still killed his brother, being pissed is pretty understandable. I hope that, when things have calmed down, he has Judith executed for murder, and says something like "I know a man should never kill his mother...but I am not a normal man, am I?" 

This isle of perpetual depression is just sooooo looooooong. It has so nothing to do with anything, and everyone except for Floki is basically the same (everyone is dirty, wet, and pissed off) and the heads on pikes just makes this look like a Odin awful adaptation of Lord of the Flies.  

Ivar is going more nuts with every passing day. Not too surprising that Hvitserk is probably about to go off to find Bjorn and join him in stopping his brother, who is quickly turning into more of a tyrant every day. I am going to miss Hvitserks judgmental looks around the city though as people are buying what he is selling. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by tennisgurl

[green]

Remember Season 1, Episode 1 where The Thing was still The Thing?  But Ivar doesn't like The Thing because it is too democratic so The Thing is no more.  Farewell to The Thing.

Meanwhile it is looking doubtful that Floki's Icelandic Tours Limited company is going to survive.  (I bet the current Icelandic Tourist Board is pissed off they ever let Vikings film there.  It is a starkly beautiful land despite what we see on this show).

[Straycat80]

I had no idea what was going on on Floki’s isle of rain and misery because I haven’t been watching that part. So boring and depressing. 

I don’t know why Hvitserk hadn’t left Kattegat a long time ago. And he should have taken a Flora with him, I wouldn’t trust Ivar at all. I hope he joins Bjorn and Harald and goes back and kicks Ivar’s crazy ass. 

[green]

I think you mean Thora, not Flora.  Unless you are suggesting Hvitserk take some vegetation with him on his trip.  (Sorry, couldn't resist).

[Straycat80]

Just now, green said:

I think you mean Thora, not Flora.  Unless you are suggesting Hvitserk take some vegetation with him on his trip.  (Sorry, couldn't resist).

Oops, sorry, my bad, thought Thora said ‘Flora’. These accents! :)

[benteen]

Oh, Judith, just DIE already!  The only thing that makes Alfred special in her (and Ecbert's) eyes was that he is the sperm of Athelstan (and I happen to like Alfred on this show).

The Iceland storyline...oof.  Hirst just keeps tripling down on this show-killing storyline.  They are all killing each other, which is a slight improvement this storyline is terrible and Floki has become a completely impotent and useless character.  What happens on Iceland next week?  Life is miserable and Floki cries.  

So, Hvitserk, you leave town when Ivar threatens your girlfriend but don't take her with you?  Yeah, that will end well.

Ubbe and Torvi barely appear but remain the absolute best thing about this season.  I like Bjorn's new love interest too.

[Hannah94]

Alfred is losing his shit. Wow, I am really liking him more and more!

(P.S. I am watching it On Demand so just started the newest episode)

Edited January 10, 2019 by Hannah94

[Steph J]

51 minutes ago, benteen said:

Oh, Judith, just DIE already!  

I think you may get your wish.  In that scene where she was looking at herself in the mirror it looked to me like she was examining something on her breast.

I'm amazed that Hvitserk managed to find someone dumber than he is.  Why on earth would Thora tell Ivar, of all people, that she and Hvitserk are in love?  How do you not know that that's just going to be something he's going to use as leverage (and which will probably lead to your death)?

I'm also continuously amazed at how damn thirsty Harald is for female attention.

[Hannah94]

1 minute ago, Steph J said:

I think you may get your wish.  In that scene where she was looking at herself in the mirror it looked to me like she was examining something on her breast.

I'm amazed that Hvitserk managed to find someone dumber than he is.  Why on earth would Thora tell Ivar, of all people, that she and Hvitserk are in love?  How do you not know that that's just going to be something he's going to use as leverage (and which will probably lead to your death)?

I'm also continuously amazed at how damn thirsty Harald is for female attention.

I was trying to figure out what Judith was doing in that scene. My initial thought was a breast cancer scare, but then I remembered the timeline and cancer was not even known back then. So what the hell was that all about....

[Steph J]

3 minutes ago, Hannah94 said:

I was trying to figure out what Judith was doing in that scene. My initial thought was a breast cancer scare, but then I remembered the timeline and cancer was not even known back then. So what the hell was that all about....

If she has a breast cancer symptom that presents itself in a way that can be seen, or if she has a large lump that she can feel (it did sort of look like she was feeling her breast), she likely knows that something is wrong even if she doesn't have a name for it.  Which frankly sounds terrifying.

[Hannah94]

2 minutes ago, Steph J said:

If she has a breast cancer symptom that presents itself in a way that can be seen, or if she has a large lump that she can feel (it did sort of look like she was feeling her breast), she likely knows that something is wrong even if she doesn't have a name for it.  Which frankly sounds terrifying.

That does sound terrifying. I cannot think of another reasonable explanation for that scene where she was checking out her girls in a mirror. It def did not have a "brown chicken brown cow" vibe at all. 

[Iris aurora]

I want say,at first I was enjoying the sound of the movie,the motion,attitude corresponding with the movie pattern and style...who is that inner man talking..a script interpretator,no no...please...I enjoy it most while silently..no interruptions...u right @hannah94,I think she gat a lump...but I dont think she will die fast..king Alfred needs her pretty devilish scene to get stronger...with the help of ubbe,its a kudos then.

[mwell345]

9 hours ago, benteen said:

The Iceland storyline...oof.  Hirst just keeps tripling down on this show-killing storyline.  They are all killing each other, which is a slight improvement this storyline is terrible and Floki has become a completely impotent and useless character.  What happens on Iceland next week?  Life is miserable and Floki cries.  

One of the problems with the Iceland storyline (other than being mind-numbingly dull) is that it is totally unrelated to anything else going on.   Wessex, Kattegat - everything else is intertwined.  When the Iceland scenes come on, I feel like I'm watching a different show.  I still don't know (or care) who these people are. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by mwell345

[wlk68]

Wow, Floki is a weak and ineffective leader. He doesn't fight back, he doesn't get angry and kick butt. He just sits there looking helpless while people run amok all around him. It's obvious no one has any respect for him. The wheels are completely off the cart. At this point I don't think there are enough people left to sustain any sort of colony.  

I'm surprised that Hvitserk and Thora didn't slip away in the night ages ago. Maybe Hvitserk was worried that Ivar would have his flunkies chase them down if they did? Shrug. He definitely should have brought Thora with him on this "diplomatic mission" tho, because seriously, what are the odds that she'll still be alive when he gets back? Ivar is soooo going to use her as a bargaining chip.   

Not much of Ubbe and Torvi in this episode but I liked Tovi's line about truth. Next week looks good. Keeping my fingers crossed for Ubbe vs The Danes. :)  

[nowornever]

"I've never really loved anyone...until now, but I'm not saying it unless you say it first."   -Bjorn, the big hairy cliche.  I'm not 100% certain that Gunhilde isn't playing  Bjorn and Harald against each other. And it's awfully short-sighted to make a deal with someone that they can have your kingdom after you die, Bjorn.  Especially if that other person is after your girlfriend too.  We've already seen what Harald will do to what he perceives as a romantic rival when he killed the husband of the woman who said she'd only marry him if he was a king.     

I'm surprised that Ivar hasn't already killed off Hvitsirk, so maybe Thora will live to see him again.  Looking forward to the clash of the brothers when he brings back that other king and Bjorn returns to Kattegat.  

I can't tell any of the people apart on Floki's Island of the Damned and I don't care. What happened to Floki the fighter? He just stood there and let those people be slaughtered.

We debated on what Judith was doing too.  Was she just inspecting her (non) aging body?  Could she be pregnant?  Breast cancer didn't even occur to me, but it could be that too.

From the previews, next week looks interesting!

[green]

9 hours ago, Hannah94 said:

I was trying to figure out what Judith was doing in that scene. My initial thought was a breast cancer scare, but then I remembered the timeline and cancer was not even known back then. So what the hell was that all about....

I know it is the Dark Ages and some ancient knowledge was lost but not cancer.  It is one of the oldest diseases known to man and has been around in every generation.  This "cancer" name is just one of many but it stuck and comes from the zodiac constellation of the same name since it reminded the famous physician who gave it it's name of very teeny tiny little crabs when feeling lumps.  It was known by this unique, particular name for well over 1,200 years before Judith's time.  And I quote:

Quote

The disease was first called cancer by Greek physician Hippocrates (460-370 BC)

It was not only called that in Europe at the time but also "the wasting disease" too given how the body looks to waste away in the final stages.

2 hours ago, mwell345 said:

One of the problems with the Iceland storyline (other than being mind-numbingly dull) is that it is totally unrelated to anything else going on.   Wessex, Kattegat - everything else is intertwined.  When the Iceland scenes come on, I feel like I'm watching a different show.  I still don't know (or care) who these people are.

Maybe the verb you are looking for now is WERE, not ARE.  There appeared to be only 2 major families and one is totally gone and the idealistic young woman from the other just jumped off the cliff in despair.  Too bad they didn't let her jump over a shark to her death instead which seems far more appropriate for this storyline.  (Still never learned her name either and she was the only non gray-blob-mob person who had some individuality on the whole damn island too).

Why why why and why did Hirst come up with such a silly and boring exit storyline for Floki.  Yes the real Floki sailed to Iceland but based on rumors that it existed and with vague directions there that made his voyage famous in history for his great navigation skills. 

And he went there with his wife and his own family.  Hirst never should have killed off Helga with that goofy, tragic storyline around the Moorish orphan girl.  Helga would have kicked ass in Iceland.  (I still miss Helga second only to missing Athelstan as one of the really "good" people on the show).

Edited January 10, 2019 by green

[mcjen]

I'll start by admitting that, of all the stupid things that happened in this and other recent episodes, this is going to seem ridiculously trivial, but...my eyes couldn't roll back far enough to express my disdain for the "surprise" of Alfred's arrival at his brother's burial.  Seriously?  The king of Wessex lies unconscious, suffering a mysterious ailment, possibly dying...and the suggestion seems to be that there was NOBODY with him?  Even allowing that Judith felt she had to put in an appearance at the service for Aethelred, there would still have been a sizable contingent of healers, members of his council, high lords, not to mention his own wife, hovering in or very near by Alfred's room.  But, nope.  We're supposed to picture this king coming to, with no one around him (except, possibly, servants?), so that he has to drag himself through the palace, unable to learn any news or alert anyone until he arrives in the chapel to ask, "Hey, guys - what's up?"  Looks like there's no perks to being royal!

Edited January 10, 2019 by mcjen
dropped a couple of words

[Ohwell]

I liked Judith having the courage to 'fess up to murdering Aethelred, and the way she calmly stood back while Alfred understandably threw his tantrum.  She is badass in her own way, and even though I won't miss her, I'll be sorry when the cancer takes her away.

I think Gunhilde is playing Harald and Bjorn against each other, but she doesn't know how dangerous that could be, especially with Harald.     

[Athelstan]

The big guy going full Viking on the other family was something. I did not see that coming (obviously did when we saw this dead-eye look of his right before the slaughter). Brutal. I guess the good guys are the ones not to be trusted.

Some have said here that Floki didn't do anything to stop it... I ask, what could he have done really? He was alone and had a knife to his throat. Not to mention that the entire purpose of this trip of his is to create a hippie society, violence is not an option anymore for him or he would be forsaking his principles and godly values that led him to Iceland.

I've heard rumors that this will be the last season for Vikings. A new spin-off is supposed to happen. Anyone can confirm?

[magdalene]

11 minutes ago, Athelstan said:

I've heard rumors that this will be the last season for Vikings. A new spin-off is supposed to happen. Anyone can confirm?

Next season, season 6, will be the last.  But since 6 a probably won't air until late 2019, and 6 b until late 2020, the end is quite a ways off. And yes, they are planning some kind of spin off, probably with a new cast.

[nowornever]

The filming this season has been very bleak.  Everything is gray, from the dim light in Alfred's castle to wet, grim Iceland. Ivar's den is dark except for little punctuations of firelight, so when the grass was green just before the young woman threw herself into the waterfall, it was really striking.  It's really adding to the tone of the episodes and I like it.  

[Athelstan]

3 hours ago, magdalene said:

Next season, season 6, will be the last.  But since 6 a probably won't air until late 2019, and 6 b until late 2020, the end is quite a ways off. And yes, they are planning some kind of spin off, probably with a new cast.

Thank you.

2 hours ago, nowornever said:

The filming this season has been very bleak.  Everything is gray, from the dim light in Alfred's castle to wet, grim Iceland. Ivar's den is dark except for little punctuations of firelight, so when the grass was green just before the young woman threw herself into the waterfall, it was really striking.  It's really adding to the tone of the episodes and I like it.  

I agree, noticed that as well. To be honest this is the first Iceland episode that I actually enjoyed.

[magdalene]

As soon as I saw the out of nowhere scene of Judith examining her breast I mentally said "Judith killed off by breast cancer".  I see I am not the only one who went there.  Why else put such a random moment in there?

I have a hard time believing Ivar is not on to Freydis' "miracle" baby.  He knows how babies get made.  I think there is a good possibility that as soon as Freydis pops out that critter he'll take it from her going "Remember you were willing to die for me" and kills her.

I like Gunnhild. First of all she is a badass. And she knows how to play Bjorn and Harald.  Harald is a king and Bjorn may be a king soon.  So her chances of being queen are good.

[Hannah94]

10 hours ago, nowornever said:

"I've never really loved anyone...until now, but I'm not saying it unless you say it first."   -Bjorn, the big hairy cliche.  I'm not 100% certain that Gunhilde isn't playing  Bjorn and Harald against each other. And it's awfully short-sighted to make a deal with someone that they can have your kingdom after you die, Bjorn.  Especially if that other person is after your girlfriend too.  We've already seen what Harald will do to what he perceives as a romantic rival when he killed the husband of the woman who said she'd only marry him if he was a king.     

I'm surprised that Ivar hasn't already killed off Hvitsirk, so maybe Thora will live to see him again.  Looking forward to the clash of the brothers when he brings back that other king and Bjorn returns to Kattegat.  

I can't tell any of the people apart on Floki's Island of the Damned and I don't care. What happened to Floki the fighter? He just stood there and let those people be slaughtered.

We debated on what Judith was doing too.  Was she just inspecting her (non) aging body?  Could she be pregnant?  Breast cancer didn't even occur to me, but it could be that too.

From the previews, next week looks interesting!

Didn't Bjorn say something extremely similar to that girl that was in like two episodes - the one that smacked the shit out of his face during sex - and then she died in battle? They have turned his character into a soap opera persona. I wish they'd show him do something other than take the newest cast member to pound town.

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, Hannah94 said:

Didn't Bjorn say something extremely similar to that girl that was in like two episodes - the one that smacked the shit out of his face during sex - and then she died in battle? They have turned his character into a soap opera persona. I wish they'd show him do something other than take the newest cast member to pound town.

Yeah, it seems like he's being led around by his third leg and it's getting tiresome now.  I think he deserves a better story than that.

[Stallion12]

I was hoping Alfred would have had her executed.

[raven]

21 hours ago, benteen said:

Oh, Judith, just DIE already!  The only thing that makes Alfred special in her (and Ecbert's) eyes was that he is the sperm of Athelstan (and I happen to like Alfred on this show).

Ugh, Judith, yes, please die, the sooner the better.  I'm tired of her story and the actress's crazy eyed rambling.  The only thing interesting would be if Alfred has her killed.  Otherwise, I'm still bored with Wessex, though I do like Torvi.  Can we put her in charge?

45 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I think he deserves a better story than that.

I agree about Bjorn and I think the actor can handle more complicated material.  I liked his kinda/sorta crisis of "who am I" and that piece of his talk with Gunnhild. Bjorn and Harald working to take down Ivar could be interesting.  It would be smart of Gunnhild to play both him and Harald as long as she's careful; I like her.

Damn Hvitserk, grow a pair! Your creepy brother creeps up on you in bed and threatens your girlfriend? The people of Kattegat don't seem that bright; if you killed Ivar you could make up something believable.

There are less nobodies on the island of.  Okay.  I honestly don't know anyone's name there except for Floki.

[dbell1]

I had no idea that Icelandic Killer Flatnose was wrestler The Edge. Guess I don't keep up with casting and he's just so depressing and grey. Aud jumping into the waterfalls worked for me, I'd be tossing myself off a cliff too just to leave.

A bit bored by Gunnhild the love goddess. Harald and Bjorn both have crap track records with women, so she'll just pick the lesser loser.

Judith makes other horrible mothers look like saints. But, I was fine with her sending that random character packing. Should have killed her, not Aethelflad.

Oh look, another invasion. I'm shocked. Guess Ubbe won't be getting the crops in this season.

[Steph J]

12 hours ago, nowornever said:

I'm surprised that Ivar hasn't already killed off Hvitsirk.

I had a bit of a chuckle when Ivar was musing about killing Hvitsirk and said that if people saw that he was capable of killing his own brother no one would dare stand against him. Uh, dude, you already killed one of your brothers, remember? Poor Sigurd and his terrible, terrible hair. It's like he never happened.

[alvajon]

3 hours ago, magdalene said:

3 hours ago, magdalene said:

I have a hard time believing Ivar is not on to Freydis' "miracle" baby.  He knows how babies get made.  I think there is a good possibility that as soon as Freydis pops out that critter he'll take it from her going "Remember you were willing to die for me" and kills her.

 

It’s not too hard to think about the fact that perhaps Ivar knows the truth about Freydis’ baby, that he couldn’t possibly be the father (he can’t really be that naive about the so-called conception), but he wants Hvitsirk to believe he’s the father, he wants his kingdom to believe he’s the father, and anyone who dares to say differently is a goner.  He wants/needs an heir and why not?  Freydis is very pretty, he loves her, she’s wise in Ivar’s eyes, and he listens to her and, well, didn’t she “talk” him into believing he was a god?

[thuganomics85]

Judith with the whole "Yeah, yeah, I killed your brother.  Now, quit whining about it, Alfred!" approach to that reveal was something.  Mother of the year, right there!  Kind of funny that Ubbe and Torvi might actually be Alfred's closest and even most loyal allies right now.  Who said the Christians and Pagans couldn't get along?!

Bjorn still wants to go after Ivar, but he's going to first spend his time in an actual love triangle with Gunnhild, and Harald.  Although, I suspect she's playing them both and is just going to wait and see who comes out ahead, if swords are ever drawn.

Ivar continues to follow the Evil Overload Handbook to a tee.  Why didn't Hvitserk take his girlfriend with him?  I don't think Ivar will actually do anything unless truly provoked, but that just seems risky to me.

Meanwhile, Floki's dreams of a career as a traveling guide continue to deteriorate as, just as the previews suggested, Viking Edge was actually plotting revenge all of this time, and pretty much murders all of House Viking Dyson.  It was fun watching Viking Edge lose his shit since Adam Copeland was definitely pulling off some of the facial reactions he did back in the WWE, whenever "Edge" began losing his shit too!  Anyway, that happens and it ends with Viking Edge's daughter (I think that's who that is?) jumping off a cliff in front of a helpless and screaming Floki.  Worst vacation ever!

We still got three more episodes this season?  The show really feels like it has been dragging since it returned from the break. 

[Kite]

Iceland is just like a comedy sketch where everything is hilariously awfully bad. Of course whoever-that-was was going to kill herself. DRA-MAT-ICALLY! I just can't get over the raining indoors. Everyone would die of hypothermia within a day. Since there's no fcking plants anywhere, where did they get the completely inadequate brushwood anyway, and couldn't they live closer to wherever that came from? So many questions I don't really care about.

Still Team Judith. Slayyyy, queen. Tell your son to pull himself together, yesssss.

Finally Bjorn is being proactive about something rather than just Brooding.

Lol Alfred getting owned by Torvi.

So we're getting a Nazi type parallel with Ivar. Okay. His logo even looks like the Black Sun fascist symbol. Yadayadayada. Something unpredictable happen soon in Kattegat, please.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Kite

[benteen]

12 hours ago, Stallion12 said:

I was hoping Alfred would have had her executed.

Likewise.  When she talked about how a king needs to be willing to do anything, even bad things, I though the first thing Alfred would do is have his guards come in an arrest her.

[Captanne]

After a long discussion with my colleague this morning, I have concluded that the Iceland plot line suffers from two main problems.  First, it has been salted sporadically on the screen over a year and a half so it's hard to remember who killed whom; and, it's been filmed in a bleak grey-scale that mutes the scenes as well as making the characters all hard to distinguish.  That said, I tried to piece the story line together so I could figure out the cast of characters and their actions.  Colleague said, "I really don't care.  All I care about is that the Viking culture is devouring itself from within.  In the case of Iceland it's vengeance.  That's all I need to know."  Which is kind of sad because those performances are, therefore, wasted and it all could have just as easily been done with a single text-card, a la PowerPoint, "Vikings Take Revenge and Kill Each Other.  Sadness."  That's hours of screentime down the tubes.

I then noted, for what it's worth, the best story lines are those showing the Viking cultures assimiliating (in equal measures) with other European ones -- Ubbe and Torvi in England and Rollo (momentarily with us) in Frankia.  

The sad ones are in Norway (where Ivar's insanity is killing his own kingdom) and in Iceland where the revenge culture is killing their own meagre attempts at survival.

That's a kind of bleak prognosis.

[green]

On 1/10/2019 at 7:04 PM, magdalene said:

I like Gunnhild. First of all she is a badass. And she knows how to play Bjorn and Harald.  Harald is a king and Bjorn may be a king soon.  So her chances of being queen are good.

I think Hirst introduced Gunnhild first, last and foremost to be the new badass shield maiden since Lagertha is obviously well into her exit storyline.  For casual shallow viewers Gunnhild will simply be the strong, independent woman for female viewers and the new, young sexy shield maiden replacing Lagertha for male viewers. 

 

22 hours ago, raven said:

Damn Hvitserk, grow a pair! Your creepy brother creeps up on you in bed and threatens your girlfriend? The people of Kattegat don't seem that bright; if you killed Ivar you could make up something believable.

That was kind of a funny scene the way the Ivar actor handled Hvitserk's surprise awakening with his scary Ivar humor.  And yeah the Kattegat crowd are dumb as bricks.  "Yes, take away The Thing.  We hate democracy.  Be our Dear Leader and make Kattegat great again."

 

9 hours ago, Captanne said:

After a long discussion with my colleague this morning, I have concluded that the Iceland plot line suffers from two main problems.  First, it has been salted sporadically on the screen over a year and a half so it's hard to remember who killed whom; and, it's been filmed in a bleak grey-scale that mutes the scenes as well as making the characters all hard to distinguish.  That said, I tried to piece the story line together so I could figure out the cast of characters and their actions.  Colleague said, "I really don't care.  All I care about is that the Viking culture is devouring itself from within.  In the case of Iceland it's vengeance.  That's all I need to know."  Which is kind of sad because those performances are, therefore, wasted and it all could have just as easily been done with a single text-card, a la PowerPoint, "Vikings Take Revenge and Kill Each Other.  Sadness."  That's hours of screentime down the tubes.

I then noted, for what it's worth, the best story lines are those showing the Viking cultures assimiliating (in equal measures) with other European ones -- Ubbe and Torvi in England and Rollo (momentarily with us) in Frankia.  

The sad ones are in Norway (where Ivar's insanity is killing his own kingdom) and in Iceland where the revenge culture is killing their own meagre attempts at survival.

That's a kind of bleak prognosis.

Actually I find your friend's analysis dead on.  What a great insight.  Please tell them thank you for me.  They summed up things brilliantly. 

And yeah history is all about adapting to the new, not digging in with the old.  So I love the idea that the reactionary wing of the Vikings are busy destroying themselves while the more progressive wing is starting to flourish by changing.   So I don't find that a bleak prognosis at all but a wonderful teaching parable for our age as well because this is indeed what happens in history all the time.  Never in a straight line of course but history gets there each time eventually.

Edited January 12, 2019 by green

[Captanne]

I'll tell him!  Actually the "devouring itself from within" part is mine.  But that's essentially what he said.  He doesn't give a rat's ass about the whos, the whys, and the wherefores.  Just that they turned on each other and it is not the Norse God Mythological Utopia Floki thought it would be.  They brought their violent humanity with them.  (That's me translating again.  LOL)

Edited January 11, 2019 by Captanne

[Captanne]

I told Work Colleague and he is flattered!!

To explain -- my comment about the bleak prognosis was not so much about the future of the Vikings on the show (although, wow) but more about the show in a metaphysical sense.  It's just sad that they have wasted so much time and energy on a third of this season.  One person has to put it in a diagram on paper to figure out and the other doesn't care.  Both people agree that it should be reduced to a single screen in a PowerPoint presentation.

That's a bleak comment.

1 hour ago, green said:

Actually I find your friend's analysis dead on.  What a great insight.  Please tell them thank you for me.  They summed up things brilliantly. 

And yeah history is all about adapting to the new, not digging in with the old.  So I love the idea that the reactionary wing of the Vikings are busy destroying themselves while the more progressive wing is starting to flourish by changing.   So I don't find that a bleak prognosis at all but a wonderful teaching parable for our age as well because this is indeed what happens in history all the time.

  That last paragraph, though, is poetry.

 

For the record, Work Colleague and I are professional military historians.  

[green]

How cool is that to be a professional military historian.   Great job!  And credit to you for the "devouring itself from within" line too.  That is how empires usually start their decline and fall after all.  The rot from within.

Edited January 12, 2019 by green

[WatchrTina]

Welp, I just got caught up on six episodes of Vikings. Damn. That was depressing.  I swear I think I've caught trench-foot from all the rain in Iceland.  

I agree with those who've said Ubbe and Torvi are the only likable people left.  And Bjorn Ironside too, I guess.

I also agree with those who said Hvitserk REALLY should have taken his lady-friend with him. She's a hostage now.

Alfred really needs to get a move on and earn that "Great" moniker because right now he's just . . . eh.

[Lamima]

I like Alfred and Ubbe/Torvi, Hvitserk/Thora and the Bjorn/Harald/Gunnhild love triangle and would love to see more from Rollo and his wife. Not missing Largatha or even, dare I say it, Ragnar. I do miss the old Floki (someone described above with the eye make up and karate kid pose) and his dead wife. 

OMG...cannot wait for Juddith's death. I am sooooo sure it's a coming. Tired of looking at her stupid constipated face. And will also be glad to see Iver die a painful death. Why, Hvitserk, did you not slit his throat and that conspiring tramp wife of his too???? But I am not convinced Juddith was looking at a breast lump, though that did cross my mind. I also thought she could of been, ummm, being a master of baiting (KWIM)??? Or she could have been doing some form of self punishment/torture for murdering her own son?????

Oh, and, can we talk about Magnus??? Gawd, he is on my nerves. He is NOT a son of Ragnar. Isn't he Aethelwuf's son (and would be true king now that Aethlewuf's other real son was killed by Juddith)????

Edited January 14, 2019 by Lamima

[Kite]

On 1/12/2019 at 6:26 AM, green said:

And yeah the Kattegat crowd are dumb as bricks.  "Yes, take away The Thing.  We hate democracy.  Be our Dear Leader and make Kattegat great again."

Historically, don't you have to invent or seize upon some kind of huge pressing threat to roll back democracy? (*cough*) That's how it always seems to go. People don't willingly give up their freedom and their power unless they're convinced by fear (psychology has found people are more "conservative" when in a fear mindset), and Ivar just isn't providing it, apart from vague "let's make things greater, we have lots of enemies".

As for Norse revenge culture eating itself from within (which I think is fuelled by their belief systems), are they going to show any transition to Christianity, with the different things it had to offer? It's probably beyond the scope of the show, and besides, I think they're trying to be fairly neutral about both traditions which is fair enough. (I kinda wish they'd show just a little more of Norse heathen culture, eg casual supersitions, their fluid ideas of gender, all the ways men could insult one another and challenge each other to fights, and what happened if someone refused- but then they'd have to show the culture as a hella lot more sexist than on screen. The show is just a gloss on all that, and again, fair enough.)

Edited January 15, 2019 by Kite

[Steph J]

5 hours ago, Lamima said:

Oh, and, can we talk about Magnus??? Gawd, he is on my nerves. He is NOT a son of Ragnar. Isn't he Aethelwuf's son (and would be true king now that Aethlewuf's other real son was killed by Juddith)????

My recollection is that Aethelwulf and Kwenthrith didn't get together until after Magnus was born, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

But even if he is Aethelwulf's son, primogeniture wasn't a thing (at least in England) during the time of Alfred the Great (when the king died the Witan would select the successor from among those who were eligible for consideration, which was any man whose father, grandfather, or great grandfather had been king), so there wasn't a line of succession that dictated that a crown passed from father to eldest son to the son of the eldest son, etc. (and even if primogeniture was the law of the land and Magnus was Aethelwulf's son, he would be illegitimate and therefore ineligible to get the crown).  You wouldn't know that Wessex didn't operate according to primogeniture from the show, of course, which is a bit weird since it sometimes seems like the England portion is of more interest to Hirst than the actual Vikings premise, so you would think he'd make more effort towards accuracy.

[Haleth]

Judith is the worst.  I don't mean only the character, the actress is sooo bad.  She did make me laugh though when Alfred had his temper tantrum, knocking everything over, then she calmly asks, "Can we talk now?"

Good lord, the Iceland stuff is tedious.  I don't care about anyone, I don't know who any of them are, I have zero interest in what happens.  There was way, way too much focus on Iceland in this episode.  Thankfully it looks like they are all mostly gone so the storyline can finally be put out of our misery.

On 1/9/2019 at 10:18 PM, ihartcoffee said:

And she jumps,  I totally sympathize with how she felt after watching that...

Exactly.

On 1/11/2019 at 10:58 PM, WatchrTina said:

Alfred really needs to get a move on and earn that "Great" moniker because right now he's just . . . eh.

Alfred the Meh.

I love that Ubbe is morphing into Uhtred, Alfred's pet Norse warrior.  For a minute I was confused about the Vikings spotted in Wales.  I wondered how Bjorn's fleet ended up on the other side of Britain but then Alfred said they were probably coming from Ireland.  So Bjorn and Ubbe won't be fighting each other.  Yet.

[green]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

 For a minute I was confused about the Vikings spotted in Wales.  I wondered how Bjorn's fleet ended up on the other side of Britain but then Alfred said they were probably coming from Ireland.  So Bjorn and Ubbe won't be fighting each other.  Yet.

They also said it was Danish raiders who had already established enclaves in Ireland etc in the past.

[TaurusRose]

On 1/9/2019 at 9:58 PM, ihartcoffee said:

Iceland is so depressing,  good Lord....

Yep, and like many others, I have no idea what’s going on, who those people are/were, and I don’t care. Bored now.

On 1/10/2019 at 10:13 PM, dbell1 said:

A bit bored by Gunnhild the love goddess. Harald and Bjorn both have crap track records with women, so she'll just pick the lesser loser.

Ditto.

[Captanne]

I like Gunnhild.  I think she's an interesting character -- as interesting as any of the others who are supporting roles.  I think she was introduced well, she's not dependent on another character to define her own, and she's a solid viking and we could use more of those when we are littered with Ivars, the pregnant crazy Queen, Bjorns, Iceland et al, and the rabble who drool in Ivar's cult.  

[Token]

I really can't watch this show anymore.  I've reached a point where I don't really know who anyone is anymore, where they are and who they're allied with.  Every set just looks the same.  All the people look the same.  They all act the same.  And most of them sound the same, regardless of where they're actually supposed to be from.  This show started out so well, but, like many others, it just went on too long and got muddled and confusing.  Shame.