All Episodes Discussion

[Ohmo]

16 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Her father said that they did not know him, though they did know that when he said that he was a youth pastor that he was lying. I assume they were told that was never the case, that he was the janitor.

When her father said that Pankey was the janitor and not the youth pastor, I took that as their paths crossing at that church in some way.  I didn't have the sense that Jonelle's dad was told that. It came across to me as he knew that himself.

When he said the family didn't know Pankey, I interpreted that as they weren't friends, which is different from a 12-year old "knowing" someone who works at her church.  She doesn't know him.  It's more that she knew "of" him...which could potentially be enough to get her to open a door and let him in.  That's what I thought they were getting at with all of that.  Maybe it will be more clear at trial.

The amount of effort that Pankey put into putting himself in the case can't be discounted either.  Killers have been known to do that, and at some point, the "attention" defense begins to strain credibility.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Ohmo

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

When her father said that Pankey was the janitor and not the youth pastor, I took that as their paths crossing at that church in some way.  I didn't have the sense that Jonelle's dad was told that. It came across to me as he knew that himself.

When he said the family didn't know Pankey, I interpreted that as they weren't friends, which is different from a 12-year old "knowing" someone who works at her church.  She doesn't know him.  It's more that she knew "of" him...which could potentially be enough to get her to open a door and let him in.  That's what I thought they were getting at with all of that.  Maybe it will be more clear at trial.

The amount of effort that Pankey put into putting himself in the case can't be discounted either.  Killers have been known to do that, and at some point, the "attention" defense begins to strain credibility.

I was unclear myself and looked back at that point of the episode. The reporter in a voice over said that Pankey left the church before the Matthews family joined. Which is also in the indictment. Jonelle's father said that Pankey was lying when he said he was a young pastor, as he was a janitor. Where Pankey says he was a youth pastor was in a 4 hour podcast he did in 2019. I missed/forgot that part of the episode. It wasn't clear when/how Mr Matthews knew that. Maybe when he began to insert himself into the case someone in the church told Jonelle's father than he had been a janitor there? 

Pankey put himself in the case over a span of 36 years, which even for an odd duck like Pankey is a bit much if he had nothing to do with the murder. Why not move on to another obsession over that span of years? When his own son was murdered in 2008, his ex heard him say that he hoped that his son's murder wasn't God's doing because of what happened to Jonelle. Why in the world would Jonelle even be a thought at his own son's funeral unless he had a hand in Jonelle's murder? 

I know the case is circumstantial, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....its a duck. 

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I know the case is circumstantial, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....its a duck.

Yes, and even with the questions of when was he at the church, he knows an awful lot about a young girl he claims to have never met.  Like you said, why not move on to another case?  I also think of the era.  There was a high-profile abduction case that happened in my suburb when I was 10. Then Adam Walsh. Then this case.  As I said upthread, this was when adults started talking to us about abduction, but it was very early...and mostly if you were out...like walking home from school.  There was some "don't open the door to strangers," but if he had gotten Jonelle to start talking (i.e. hey, I see you walking home from school, I used to go to your church, etc.), there wasn't yet the instruction that people were trying to trick us. And in her own house, I could see Jonelle's guard being down. For the era, it's completely plausible to me, and it sure seems like a duck.

[txhorns79]

10 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Why in the world would Jonelle even be a thought at his own son's funeral unless he had a hand in Jonelle's murder? 

Just off hand, it could be he's just mentally ill and says nutty things for attention.  It's also possible his ex-wife sees this as a good opportunity to be rid of him, and just made it up.  After all, it isn't as though he can prove he didn't say it and even if he denies saying, his credibility is poor.

 

11 hours ago, Ohmo said:

It's more that she knew "of" him...which could potentially be enough to get her to open a door and let him in.  That's what I thought they were getting at with all of that.  Maybe it will be more clear at trial.

There's nothing to indicate Jonelle knew Pankey or, more generally, knew of him.  The indictment suggests Pankey and the Matthews family may have attended the same church briefly in 1978, when Jonelle was 6.   

[iwantcookies]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/jonelle-matthews-murder-kidnapping-steve-pankey-person-of-interest-48-hours/

Sure looks like he did it

[Angeltoes]

On 4/19/2020 at 2:45 PM, Ohmo said:

The State of Florida just looks wretched in the whole mess.  Kim Hallock should be a suspect by now.  For the love of Pete...

If Crosley Green gets covid-19 (God forbid) while sitting in jail (where he should not be), his family should sue Florida into oblivion.

Christopher White is one dangerous human being.  Can't tell if he's actually that dumb or if it's just a cover for evil intentions.

This is the case that happened where I grew up.  Crosley Green is being let out of jail (finally).  Hopefully for good.  I'm sure our sheriff will be taking all the credit for this since he loves to toot his own horn.

Quote

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/2021/04/07/crosley-green-sentence/7125285002/

 

[Ohmo]

On 4/7/2021 at 6:24 PM, Angeltoes said:

This is the case that happened where I grew up.  Crosley Green is being let out of jail (finally).  Hopefully for good.  I'm sure our sheriff will be taking all the credit for this since he loves to toot his own horn.

 

When CBS This Morning reported on Crosley Green's release, the report said that he was released due to COVID.  However, this isn't over.  He's on house arrest.  The State of Florida is fighting this most recent ruling.  Florida still considers him to be guilty.

[LittleIggy]

Kat was pretty but she was no Marilyn Monroe. I think it was the husband because of the way he acted after the police showed up. Also, why wouldn’t he have gone out to check on Kat, who was wearing nothing but a bra, when she didn’t come back? BTW, I’m sick of older male defense attorneys with long hair. Not attractive, dudes! 🙄

EMT: Honey, if you can’t afford living in NYC, you have choices...move to a more affordable city, get a second job, get a sugar daddy, sell your used panties, go back to doing the nudie pics, etc. Just don’t ask people give you money on Go Fund Me. What makes you so special? There are kids going hungry in this country. I can’t believe people sent her over a $100,000. Must have been guys who wanted to bang her. 😡

Edited April 11, 2021 by LittleIggy

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Kat was pretty but she was no Marilyn Monroe. I think it was the husband because of the way he acted after the police showed up. Also, why wouldn’t he have gone out to check on Kat, who was wearing nothing but a bra, when she didn’t come back? BTW, I’m sick of older male defense attorneys with long hair. Not attractive, dudes! 🙄

EMT: Honey, if you can’t afford living in NYC, you have choices...move to a more affordable city, get a second job, get a sugar daddy, sell your used panties, go back to doing the nudie pics, etc. Just don’t ask people give you money on Go Fund Me. What makes you so special? There are kids going hungry in this country. I can’t believe people sent her over a $100,000. Must have been guys who wanted to bang her. 😡

Preach. I thought it was funny they were using the Marilyn Monroe angle. She didn’t look a thing like her. Although, I think she went out drunk and fell but I agree that the husband (from the police interview) didn’t seem to upset and just standing on the front porch. So I’m torn. She either fell from being drunk or he had enough and clocked her. I don’t think any of Only Fans (or any random stranger) killed her. I guess it’s nice the families are sticking together but they were correct that usually the victims family always think the other spouse is guilty. 
 

EMT: Wait! Are we supposed to feel sorry for her? Um, I don’t think so. She did admit that she did it all on her own but I won’t be contributing to her Go Fund Me page. She made a choice and has to accept the consequences.

Edited April 11, 2021 by ByaNose

[MsJamieDornan]

43 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

EMT: Honey, if you can’t afford living in NYC, you have choices.

I'm totally disgusted by that little snowflake.

[nora1992]

4 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I'm totally disgusted by that little snowflake.

How was her experience empowering?  She panicked when people started talking about it, and ultimately had to rely “on the kindness of strangers.”  Never realized Blanche Dubois was a feminist hero.

Edited April 11, 2021 by nora1992
Misspelled name

[Ohmo]

I could not have convicted Jeff West on the evidence that was presented.  The episode explicitly mentioned that Kat was dealing with bipolar disorder.  One of the symptoms of bipolar disorder is impulsive behavior. Another is overly-sexualized behavior.  Kat being on that website doesn't surprise me.  Her craving attention doesn't surprise me.  Impulsively running out into the street naked, especially if she had been drinking?  Also not surprising.

If her meds weren't at great levels for her and she had been drinking, I can see her going outside (perhaps in the midst of a manic phase), propping the bottle up on the phone herself, stumbling or dancing around in the yard, and falling and hitting her head.  I can explain that scenario just as easily as one where Jeff did it, which is reasonable doubt. People who don't have any experience with a loved one who has bipolar disorder can't fully appreciate how erratic someone's behavior can be and how quickly that behavior can change.  Heavy drinking while taking medication for bipolar disorder is also discouraged.

If Jeff did do it, I'd want more information than what was presented here

[Arkay]

23 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

People who don't have any experience with a loved one who has bipolar disorder can't fully appreciate how erratic someone's behavior can be and how quickly that behavior can change.

Unfortunately, I do have that experience in my family. I can 100% see Kat erratically running into the street, especially while drunk, then stumbling and hitting her head. The part that makes me suspect the husband is that he apparently never wondered why his wife wasn't home after they'd gone together to the liquor store, and then go out to find her and bring her in. As soul-crushingly exhausting as it is to deal with someone bipolar or otherwise very erratic, you don't just cozy up indoors for the night unless you know your wife is okay. 

ETA: I didn't see a hint of Monroe in Kat. Fake boobs and dyed blonde hair don't change your facial features. And I agree with others about the EMT in NYC. I'm a lifelong New Yorker and yes, it's very expensive to live here. You can always move to an outer-borough neighborhood which, while still expensive, is not as bad as the rent in Manhattan. She didn't get fired as an EMT, and I know whole families in New York that survive on $40,000, although it isn't easy. She doesn't seem to have children and hasn't endured a tragedy. I would never contribute to her. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Arkay

[Court]

I make very little and I'm a single mom of 3. Somehow I've managed to get by without using gofundme or posting nudes. That emt infuriated me. I know NYC is expensive but live within your means.

[Ohmo]

18 hours ago, Arkay said:

The part that makes me suspect the husband is that he apparently never wondered why his wife wasn't home after they'd gone together to the liquor store, and then go out to find her and bring her in.

I don't get the impression that's what happened.  I thought they went to the store, bought booze, came home, drank, and then ended up doing separate things.  There was some question about when he went to sleep, but I can buy a scenario where she was drinking (by herself), he was either asleep or somewhere else in the house, she bolts outside, falls, and he doesn't know.  (Especially if he's asleep.)  Wakes up, finds her dead, and he's pacing around the house because he knows she has bipolar disorder, but he also knows how this is going to look for him as her husband, which isn't good.

He could have very well done it, but the state didn't prove that.  The one fact that was never disputed was that she had bipolar disorder.  Based on that alone, I can easily make the "fall" scenario plausible.  To get to him murdering her, I'd need more evidence that discounts that her bipolar disorder was the cause of what happened.  I would have hung the jury.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Ohmo

[pdlinda]

On 4/12/2021 at 11:56 AM, Ohmo said:

He could have very well done it, but the state didn't prove that.  The one fact that was never disputed was that she had bipolar disorder.  Based on that alone, I can easily make the "fall" scenario plausible.  To get to him murdering her, I'd need more evidence that discounts that her bipolar disorder was the cause of what happened.  I would have hung the jury.

I worked on the defense side of the criminal justice system for several decades working with defendants who had mental health/substance abuse diagnoses (or both) to get those issues thoroughly documented and evaluated for sentencing/trial purposes.  I was surprised that her serious mental illness was not given the weight it deserved DURING the trial (at the sentencing phase it was, IMO, too late!). 

In the many, many cases of bipolar disorder clients I worked with (many of whom had co-occurring disorders involving alcoholism) it was always stressed that with behavior such as Kat displayed (combo of meds/alcohol) utter disaster is sure to occur!  

As an aside, if I were on the jury (listening to all the evidence regardless of my profession--I was picked on 2 civil juries during my career, never criminal) I would not have voted to convict because I believe, like you, that the State did NOT prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Jeff committed this crime.  I hope he wins on appeal but I'm not sure who's paying for his appeal case so, therefore, I wonder how competent that team is  because jury verdicts are almost impossible to reverse.

Maybe an Innocence Project from a University is interested in his case which would be GREAT!!

[LittleIggy]

Yeah, honey, the “my dog ate my husband” excuse won’t fly if his body is full of bullets. 🙄

[TVbitch]

That was, like, the angriest mail carrier I've ever seen! 

[Morrigan2575]

Oh good lord that defense attorney can't even come up with a decent lie...plenty of grow men walk around with blankets wrapped around their shoulders like a cape!

That mail carrier was supposed angry.

I hope Dani didn't kill her dog too

Edited April 25, 2021 by Morrigan2575

[pdlinda]

I suspect last night's episode was "in the can" for several years and aired because the season is winding down and the producers have to come up with "new content" so they're using shows they have in reserve for such a purpose.

The story line had several twists and turns; HOWEVER the guilt of the 2nd wife was never in question and the hour episode could have been condensed into about 15 minutes.

[UsernameFatigue]

16 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Oh good lord that defense attorney can't even come up with a decent lie...plenty of grow men walk around with blankets wrapped around their shoulders like a cape!

That mail carrier was supposed angry.

I hope Dani didn't kill her dog too

Dani's story was full of holes. Why was she sleeping on the couch when there was a back bedroom? Why did she use the ensuite bathroom where Ray, the abuser, was. Why would she not use the main bathroom and avoid Ray? And of course her reenactment was laughable. 

Her comment to the cops that they could look anywhere except in the tool box - which was emitting the foul odour -  was pretty funny, dead Ray inside aside. So many of these murderers remind me of characters in Coen Brothers movies, and that direction was right up there.

I have forgotten why the letter carrier was in disguise? Odd though that she was the only person who ever saw black eyes (and several according to her) on Dani. Dani and Ray seemed to have a pretty active social life, so not buying the letter carrier's story. 

As an animal lover, I kept waiting for them to say that Ray's dog was fine. The fact that he was not found is terrible. Dani is a monster. 

[Raiderred]

I am a barrel racer in Texas and knew of Maggie Green and her friend Gail Shanahan's horrible accident at the bridge.  Many of us traveled that route to and from Fort Smith for the Old Fort Days futurity.  It was such a horrible day in our barrel racing community.  I can't believe it has almost been 20 years ago.

The story about Ray being murdered was also flying around the barrel community when it happened.  I am so glad they found that piece of filth, Dani, guilty!

[Annber03]

The Gretchen Anthony story...I really want to slap David hard across the face. What an arrogant, selfish creep. Killing his wife, and then trying to use a deadly pandemic to his advantage on top of it (that "end of world prophecy" nonsense at the trial, WTF?). He gave off a really cocky vibe in the photos and videos they'd shown of him from his days working at that gym, and his behavior here just bore that out. 

Thank goodness he was also stupid as hell. Mentioning his wife going to a place for COVID treatment that isn't in the area he claimed it was, saying on the one hand that she was being treated for the virus, then no, she was on the run, then wait, she was actually with him and that's why her phone kept pinging. Amazing how one woman could be in three places at once!

*Alongside the fact that there was no CDC center in the town he claimed she was in, there's also the fact that no medical professionals called Gretchen's family to tell them she was in the hospital. Yes, they were overworked and overstaffed as hell when the pandemic was breaking, but still, had it actually been true that she was sick with the virus, at some point, a medical professional would at least try and get a hold of her family, both to keep them in the loop about things and perhaps ask for any records they may need that might not be on file or other things of that sort. 

And then one of the texts claimed she was on a ventilator. If you're on a ventilator by that point, you're not in any position to be texting anyone. 

And given how tall he is, you'd think he'd try and find a way to be more covert, 'cause uh, yeah, if you're 6'7", 6'8", you're gonna stand out no matter where you go. 

Regarding when Gretchen was murdered, I don't know what moment was more horrifying and heartbreaking to me, her desperate attempt to get her Alexa device to call 911, or the fact that there was footage of her attack on that security camera that was too disturbing for the show to share. I wonder if that neighbor who heard the scream regrets not calling 911. I sure would. 

Ergh. Just...thank goodness that David's not getting out anytime soon. 

[Steph J]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Regarding when Gretchen was murdered, I don't know what moment was more horrifying and heartbreaking to me, her desperate attempt to get her Alexa device to call 911

I'm curious about the reasoning behind why you have to specifically program Alexa to call 911 because the default is not to. I don't own any of those types of things because it seems like they're basically spy devices, but being able to contact 911 even when you can't get at your phone seems like the one advantage to having one.

 

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I wonder if that neighbor who heard the scream regrets not calling 911. I sure would. 

I'm sure it's a decision that will haunt her. My God.

I commend the arresting officer for not kicking David in the face when he was doing that, "What? Who do you think I killed? I have no idea what this is about" routine.

[Ohmo]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:46 AM, Steph J said:

I'm curious about the reasoning behind why you have to specifically program Alexa to call 911 because the default is not to. I don't own any of those types of things because it seems like they're basically spy devices, but being able to contact 911 even when you can't get at your phone seems like the one advantage to having one.

I'd guess so that children can't call 911 for fun or as a joke.  I don't have an Alexa  (or anything like it) either, but there have been plenty of stories of children ordering things simply by talking to Amazon.  For something as serious as 911, I can see making it so you have to opt in AND also put parental controls on it as necessary   If it were preset as active, 911 would probably have many nuisance calls because families would forget to engage parental controls.

[patty1h]

The police had that creepy video of David hiding in Gretchen's yard and then him assaulting her in her garage.  The voiceover said there was footage too brutal to show and I assumed that was of him actually murdering her.   I know it was shown that he disabled the camera after noticing it, but because of no arrest, he must have shut it down before he killed her.   It was disheartening to see the police let him go after questioning -- he didn't even get charged with assault, if I remember correctly.

It sucks that the cops can watch a woman being beaten in her own garage, then she goes "missing" and they have to let the person go because no body turns up.  

Edited May 11, 2021 by patty1h

[Josiemae]

So sad to see a woman get involved with such a despicable creep. His smug face is just so freaking punchable. And WTF is wrong with that neighbor who just ignored the screams for help?!? Shame on her.

[txhorns79]

On 5/11/2021 at 5:33 PM, patty1h said:

It sucks that the cops can watch a woman being beaten in her own garage, then she goes "missing" and they have to let the person go because no body turns up.  

I thought what happened was they questioned him before they had the tapes from the company.  At that point, without more evidence, they did have to let him go.

[Court]

Any thoughts on the Pettit murder?

[Annber03]

I'm honestly inclined to believe he was involved. I just can't get past the fact that there'd be no real reason for Felix to attack his parents just of his own volition. Even the defense attorney's reasons he gave for why Felix might decide, on his own, to kill the parents didn't provide a very sterling defense for Brandon. He claimed that Felix might've wanted to kill them because either 1) he thought they had a lot of money, or 2) because he'd overheard Brandon complaining about them and thought he'd "make him happy" by killing them. 

Except that second argument still ties Brandon into the case, even if indirectly. It still involves Brandon complaining about his parents within earshot of Felix. I suppose Felix could be inspired to want to try and resolve his friend's issues with his parents for him on his own, but...I just don't think it's that simple. 

And the money reason, well, again, how else would Felix be familiar with the family's money situation? He'd have to have heard Brandon talk about the money he thought his parents had. There's always the possibility, of course, that he'd visited the Petit home at one point, and thus might've assumed they were well off, but they didn't really seem to mention him being a frequent visitor to the home. So it seems the only way he'd have any idea about the potential money is if Brandon talked about it with him. 

And then everything with that girlfriend that he kept promising all this big stuff to her and the talk of them moving to Georgia (he seemed to have a real fixation on that state, too-he promised that girlfriend that they'd move there, and then he was talking to someone else-was it Felix?-about going there, too), and some of the other questionable comments he'd made to people. I understand the whole thing about people with Asperger's struggling sometimes with communication and saying the wrong things and misunderstanding social cues, and I'm all for critiquing the way the investigators interrogated him, because, yeah, some of their tactics in talking to him did come off rather questionable. Those are valid arguments and concerns to take into account, and I'm glad they addressed those issues. And there are cases where people have said incriminating things, even confessed to some things, where they've looked awfully guilty...and yet it turns out they aren't. So I understand the doubts and wanting to look at this case again and all that. 

But I also agree that a lot of what he said and did didn't help him, and I don't know if one can really chalk all of it up to his having Asperger's. They kept talking about how the fact it was hard to believe anything he said was an argument for his innocence, which, true, but it can also be an argument for his guilt as well. 

I also thought it was rather telling that at the end of the episode, his sister hadn't responded to any of his letters that he'd sent her from prison, in which he tried to proclaim his innocence. Given how much she was fighting for him prior to that, I wonder if she was starting to have a few doubts of her own about him. 

I totally understand her desire to want to defend her brother and believe in his innocence, though. I just felt really bad for her. She's lost her whole family in one fell swoop. She even later lost the dog that had survived the fire. I just can't imagine. So yeah, no wonder she'd wanted to try and get her brother free. He's the only family she has left. 

On another note, I was struck by how much Brandon and Felix looked alike, particularly in the face. 

[LittleIggy]

Yeah, Brandon and Felix did resemble each other. How did they meet? I missed that part.

The police interrogation was awful: You did it! No, I didn’t! Yes, you did! No! Yes!...🙄 When Brandon said everybody says they want to kill their parents, I was, like, umm, no they don’t! 
I too think he was somehow involved. There were too many incriminating things like giving Felix the keys and the bullets. 🤨

[TVbitch]

Was Sarah the sister, or that last girlfriend? If the sister, yes that says a lot that she is not answering Brandon's letters. She kept saying, "Show me evidence that isn't just words!" Um, he was friends with the guy who did it, called him that night, was shopping for expensive stuff, admitted giving Keith the keys and the bullets, and admitted other people heard him talking about his parents murder. 

I think people with disorders like Asperger's should maybe have an attorney or some kind of advocate during an interrogation, but having two nieces with autism, I actually think the Asperger's made it more likely he is guilty, not less. I think his emotions are quite flat and the whole thing wasn't really visceral to him. I think he put it in motion, cuz he had the fantasy of the home and car and moving to Georgia with the new girl. And he got that only if he killed his parents. I think he had enough detachment from the reality of what he did to not be that upset or guilty about it.

[Annber03]

15 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Was Sarah the sister, or that last girlfriend? If the sister, yes that says a lot that she is not answering Brandon's letters. She kept saying, "Show me evidence that isn't just words!" Um, he was friends with the guy who did it, called him that night, was shopping for expensive stuff, admitted giving Keith the keys and the bullets, and admitted other people heard him talking about his parents murder. 

Sarah was the girlfriend. Lauren was his sister. 

[pdlinda]

4 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Was Sarah the sister, or that last girlfriend?

I thought it was the last girlfriend.

[Fable]

22 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I'm honestly inclined to believe he was involved

I have to agree.  It wasn’t just the lack of emotion in his responses but the responses themselves that were problematic.  I think on some level his sister knows this, but may not want to allow herself to believe it since he is the only family she has left. 

[txhorns79]

I'm with the people who thought Forrest Fenn was a bad person for allowing his treasure hunt to continue after people began dying in their quest to find the treasure.  I understand some of these treasure hunters were ill prepared to actually do the search, and that seemingly  contributed to their deaths. However, once people start dying, I can't see how a person can morally justify it to themselves to keep it going.

[Fable]

It didn’t bother me that Fenn hid a treasure and wrote a poem about finding it.  Nobody forced these people to play along, and it seemed like most of them were known as risk takers before Fenn came along or they probably wouldn’t have been out there, and if not that, it may well have been something else.  What did bother me was that his family was being harassed and threatened, and it should have stopped there. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Fable

[Steph J]

I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, once multiple people died for it, calling it off would have been the right thing to do (and, honestly, why he didn't call it off the first time a member of his family was threatened with kidnapping is beyond me). On the other hand, all of these people were adults. Just because they made bad choices doesn't mean that those weren't their choices to make.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think he has any responsibility to call it off. When the show started and they talked about the treasure hunt...I thought it sounded really cool. I thought the community that developed around it sounded fun. The people that participated were grown ass adults. They made the choice, to me it's no different than people that go shark diving or mountain climbing, or diving for sunken treasure.

Now, if there was no treasure chest and he lied/made it all up for attention, yeah there would be something wrong with that.

[txhorns79]

59 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

Now, if there was no treasure chest and he lied/made it all up for attention, yeah there would be something wrong with that.

I really am not sure if he wasn't just playing people, and there was no treasure to be found.  That someone conveniently found the treasure in the months right before Fenn died, but won't say how he solved the clues or where he found it makes me wonder.   

Quote

Nobody forced these people to play along, and it seemed like most of them were known as risk takers before Fenn came along or they probably wouldn’t have been out there, and if not that, it may well have been something else.

This is entirely true.  I do get that people are adults and can make terrible decisions without it being someone else's fault.  However, I do think if you see a treasure hunt you started has led to people dying, you have a responsibility to reevaluate what you are doing.  Fenn just seemed so dismissive to me.

[Steph J]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I really am not sure if he wasn't just playing people, and there was no treasure to be found.  That someone conveniently found the treasure in the months right before Fenn died, but won't say how he solved the clues or where he found it makes me wonder.   

I don't think he was playing people the entire time. I think there was treasure to be found but  that after the search dragged on for years with no end in sight, while Fenn started seeing his own end more clearly coming into view, he decided to make a deal with someone to give them the answer in exchange for their silence.

[TVbitch]

I'm glad they did a story on this. Hard to say if Fenn was culpable. It seems most of the people died cuz they went out in bad weather and/or alone and/or did stupid things. Of course, this is to be expected when you dangle money in front of people. 

I was really happy that little pooch got a new home with that nurse. He's the real winner!

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I was really happy that little pooch got a new home with that nurse. He's the real winner!

I was glad a little good came from that particular tragedy.  There's something about a pet being left behind when an owner passes that always breaks my heart a little.   

 

16 hours ago, Steph J said:

he decided to make a deal with someone to give them the answer in exchange for their silence.

That sounds very plausible to me.  I wonder if that was what happened.

[SunnyBeBe]

Tonight they featured the murder case against Mary Katherine Higdon.  She was charged with the murder of her 23 year old live-in boyfriend.  Her story changed quite a bit from accident to self defense……it didn’t add up. She admitted that she shot him. It’s really shocking she was found not guilty.  I didn’t believe her defense at all.  I found her very fake.  Another jury could likely have come to another decision. The jury wasn’t  too bright, imo.  I wonder if they were influenced in some way. It didn’t make sense.  
 

 The couple had a very volatile relationship. He had planned to leave her. His family and friends said she was dangerous.  Why oh why do people return to homes with dangerous partners who they know are dangerous.  Not blaming the victim, but it was a senseless loss of life that was easy to see coming. 😔

[Chalby]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:06 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Tonight they featured the murder case against Mary Katherine Higdon.  She was charged with the murder of her 23 year old live-in boyfriend.  Her story changed quite a bit from accident to self defense……it didn’t add up. She admitted that she shot him. It’s really shocking she was found not guilty.  I didn’t believe her defense at all.  I found her very fake.  Another jury could likely have come to another decision. The jury wasn’t  too bright, imo.  I wonder if they were influenced in some way. It didn’t make sense.  
 

 The couple had a very volatile relationship. He had planned to leave her. His family and friends said she was dangerous.  Why oh why do people return to homes with dangerous partners who they know are dangerous.  Not blaming the victim, but it was a senseless loss of life that was easy to see coming. 😔

I've had my Pvr set to record 48 Hours for the last 3 years. Lately, it's not been recording any 48 Hours. Are these new shows or repeats?

[Chalby]

On 5/16/2021 at 12:07 PM, TVbitch said:

Was Sarah the sister, or that last girlfriend? If the sister, yes that says a lot that she is not answering Brandon's letters. She kept saying, "Show me evidence that isn't just words!" Um, he was friends with the guy who did it, called him that night, was shopping for expensive stuff, admitted giving Keith the keys and the bullets, and admitted other people heard him talking about his parents murder. 

I think people with disorders like Asperger's should maybe have an attorney or some kind of advocate during an interrogation, but having two nieces with autism, I actually think the Asperger's made it more likely he is guilty, not less. I think his emotions are quite flat and the whole thing wasn't really visceral to him. I think he put it in motion, cuz he had the fantasy of the home and car and moving to Georgia with the new girl. And he got that only if he killed his parents. I think he had enough detachment from the reality of what he did to not be that upset or guilty about it.

Interesting post/ theory. I found some of my Asperger's students didn't respond well to delayed gratification.

[Annber03]

11 minutes ago, Chalby said:

I've had my Pvr set to record 48 Hours for the last 3 years. Lately, it's not been recording any 48 Hours. Are these new shows or repeats?

They've generally been repeats from what I've seen - there's a new season that'll start in the fall, so there'll be new ones again down the line. 

[Chalby]

On 5/16/2021 at 9:17 AM, Annber03 said:

I thought it was rather telling that at the end of the episode, his sister hadn't responded to any of his letters that he'd sent her from prison, in which he tried to proclaim his innocence. Given how much she was fighting for him prior to that, I wonder if she was starting to have a few doubts of her own about him. 

I often get my episodes mixed up, but didn't the sisters say her attitude changed after she had children of her own? She could no longer justify keep in touch with him just because he was "related". Her parents will never meet her kids, all because of her brother.

 Or am I thinking of a different episode?

[Chalby]

On 1/10/2021 at 3:15 PM, Annber03 said:

Yeah, a lot of people like to think they're big, tough, badasses online. It's easy to put on that front when you can hide behind some kind of anonymity. 

I would love to see the faces of those who are calling out the loudest for cancel culture. I'm also glad there was no online presence in the seventies and early '80s, because I said and did stupid things as well. I would hate to think 20 years later I'd be canceled because of my former immature behavior, or my inappropriate attempts at humour. People forget that words change over time as do their meanings. Also, the intent behind what was said 20 years ago, isn't always on par with 2021.

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Chalby

[Cozytea]

On 7/31/2021 at 11:06 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Tonight they featured the murder case against Mary Katherine Higdon.  She was charged with the murder of her 23 year old live-in boyfriend.  Her story changed quite a bit from accident to self defense……it didn’t add up. She admitted that she shot him. It’s really shocking she was found not guilty.  I didn’t believe her defense at all.  I found her very fake.  Another jury could likely have come to another decision. The jury wasn’t  too bright, imo.  I wonder if they were influenced in some way. It didn’t make sense.  
 

 The couple had a very volatile relationship. He had planned to leave her. His family and friends said she was dangerous.  Why oh why do people return to homes with dangerous partners who they know are dangerous.  Not blaming the victim, but it was a senseless loss of life that was easy to see coming. 😔

I couldn't believe she was found not guilty.  Her self defense story did seem fake.  It just made no sense. I don't understand what the jury was thinking.  She was very familiar with guns worked at a gun shop . It was so obvious to me she was cooking the dinner thinking, she could change his mind. During the show/trial it was shown she texted him to come home, she made dinner. He hadn't been home for a few days at that point ( he was ready to move out) I think she was pissed he wasnt changing his mind.