Endeavour - General Discussion

[WatchrTina]

My binge-watch of Inspector Morse continues and tonight I got to the episode that was originally expected to be the series finale.  It ends with Morse finally getting a girlfriend who is neither murdered nor a murderer AND he finally tells her and Lewis his first name -- Endeavour.  

He explains the two sources (his Quaker mother and his Captain Cook-obsessed father) and awaits a reaction, but gets none. So then he says, "Well  I'm glad that neither of you is laughing."  His ladyfriend seems to be struggling to NOT laugh but Lewis says "You poor sod."  

It WOULD have made for a good cap-stone on the series, but it's not the end and I have a few more episodes to look forward to.

Oh, and I almost forgot -- the woman who jilted the young Endeavour Morse and marries an Oxford don instead DOES turn up in the original series.  That episode makes clear that she and her husband have conveniently decamped to America (a posting at Harvard) during the time-frame of the "Endeavour" series so that is why we'll never see them.  It's clear from the "Morse" episode that when he sees her (the former fiancé) it is the first time since she jilted him.

Edited July 17, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Possum]

On 7/9/2019 at 7:58 PM, WatchrTina said:

I'm taking the plunge.  I subscribed to BritBox and watched the first season (3 episodes) yesterday.  It's not nearly as engaging to me (yet) as Endeavour nor Inspector Lewis (which I've watched via Masterpiece Mystery in the past.)  But I've read that it is included in one of those "Top 100" lists of the all-time best UK TV series so I'm hanging on to the hope that either it will get better or I'll get used to Morse not being the crackling-smart 20-something detective I developed a wee crush on.  

I'm surprised to discover that I'm actually older than John Thaw was when he shot season 1.  With that grey hair of his -- which came on VERY early apparently -- he looks much older than his age.  I think that's part of the disconnect I'm feeling in trying to transfer my affection for the character of young Morse to old Morse.  But I'll try a few more episodes before giving up.

I had the exact opposite problem.  I was a huge "Morse" fan for years before "Endeavour" came out and found it hard to transfer my affection for the character to young Morse.  To this day, John Thaw is still Morse to me.  I have grown to like Evans as young Morse, but I think of him almost as a different character.  In my mind, he is Endeavour rather than Morse.

While based on the same character, the two shows are so different in tone. "Endeavour" is fast paced and although it has good character development, I see it as more of a cop show.  "Morse" is slower paced, more aesthetically pleasing (brighter filming and beautiful locations) and more about the intricacies of human nature.  Both are very good in their own way and fitting for the time they were filmed.  And not to forget "Inspector Lewis", I love that one too. If only they'd bring on Inspector Hathaway now.   All had perfect casting for their main characters and were well written.

Watchrtina, as you have with young Morse, I had a wee crush on original Morse, so maybe that comes into play too.  🙂

[JudyObscure]

The first time I knew any of them it was in the "Lewis and Hathaway," series, so now that I'm watching the "Inspector Morse" series on Youtube I'm enjoying seeing an adorable young Lewis and trying to see Endeavor in Morse.  

[Tyro49]

Is the collapse of the housing towers based on something that really happened? I would think all three towers in the development would be evacuated, not just the one that actually collapsed.

[Popples]

1 hour ago, Tyro49 said:

Is the collapse of the housing towers based on something that really happened? I would think all three towers in the development would be evacuated, not just the one that actually collapsed.

From IMDb:

 

 

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 Advanced issues found

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The collapse of Cranmer House is clearly suggested by the real-life tragic collapse of Ronan Point, a London tower-block in the Canning Town district. It partially collapsed in May 1968, about 18 months before this "Endeavour" story takes place. Four people died and another 17 were injured in the collapse. Like Cranmer House, the Ronan Point collapse was initially ascribed to a gas explosion, but later its chief cause was found to be alarming structural deficiencies. As a result of the Ronan Point tragedy, laws were changed and made more stringent.

[ML89]

1 hour ago, Tyro49 said:

Is the collapse of the housing towers based on something that really happened? I would think all three towers in the development would be evacuated, not just the one that actually collapsed.

Yes. Someone on Twitter tipped me to it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Point

This also maybe explains that Monty Python sketch about someone coming in to pitch a design for an apartment tower that is actually a slaughterhouse...

ETA @Popples - jinx! You owe me a Coke!

Edited July 18, 2019 by ML89

[ML89]

That scene before the collapse when the apartment owner showing all the cracks in her wall but on my TV it looked like a dark patch and, being here in the South, I thought "black mold!" I was never expecting the whole thing to collapse.

[Toothbrush]

1 hour ago, ML89 said:

That scene before the collapse when the apartment owner showing all the cracks in her wall but on my TV it looked like a dark patch and, being here in the South, I thought "black mold!" I was never expecting the whole thing to collapse.

I thought the same thing! 

[dcalley]

On 7/9/2019 at 1:25 AM, Magnumfangirl said:

Was there a cut scene with Joan in the finale?  The freeze frame on Amazon has a pic of her with Morse that did not appear in the episode.

Yes, they were in the hospital next to the girl's bed. You can see it/all the cut scenes here. <- That site is great. There are detailed reviews of most episodes if you scroll down to item number 10 here.

And if you're rewatching old episodes, don't forget the old forum: https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/1006-endeavour-v/

I hope we move on from George Fancy next season, for the sole, selfish reason that the song "Fancy" gets stuck in my head every time I even think about him. It's a great song, but two seasons of that is more than enough!

[freddi]

Just re-watched this before the episode is taken off the PBS site.  It was easier to watch the final tense scene at the quarry, knowing how it would turn out.  But there was an awful lot of pointing a gun, cocking the trigger, then making a speech -- classic mystery loophole for the villain to get caught!  And he was pointing the gun at Endeavour during one of the speeches, while Strange, Thursday, and Bright just stood there -- then, when the villains took off, *then* they took out their guns and chased them!  

I am still fuzzy on the reason the librarian was killed.  Did he really know about the faulty architecture, a year after his friend had disappeared?  And was that a year's worth of mail piled up at the house of the person found encased in concrete?  Seems someone might have checked on him in a year's time, or that the unpaid bills would have caught someone's attention.

So glad this thread is here!  Now onto some other series, have no idea what.  

[dcalley]

On 6/17/2019 at 3:03 PM, 2727 said:

Out in the garden.

Max: "Well this is a first. A splash more? [Pours iced tea.] How'd you know where I live, by the way?"

Morse: "You're in the book. [Looks around.]' Nice."

I think it was Pimm's cocktail. Iced tea was practically nonexistent in the UK until recently. Pimm's is alcoholic but not strong, and then you add other things, so when DeBryn says, "I think if I spent my days in contemplation of such questions, I would drink rather more than I do," he is acknowledging that he is drinking but that it could be harder stuff.

[freddi]

I thought both Endeavour and Inspector Lewis were on Amazon Prime?  Endeavour is, but I need a BrtiBox subscription for Lewis -- is this new?  I knew Inspector Morse is subscription only. 

ETA: I found out that the BritBox subscription is only good for the Pilot (AKA, "Season one"), but we need a PBS subscription for the other seasons of "Inspector Lewis"   I was sure it used to be available via Prime on Amazon.  Boo. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by freddi

[beadgirl]

It definitely was on Amazon Prime a year or two ago, because I rewatched a bunch of Lewis episodes. Just like Morse used to be available on DVD through Netflix. I'm getting irritated at the way they keep switching around services, especially since I can't afford to sign up for ALL of them. Grumble.  I should check out the DVD collection at my library.

[M. Darcy]

Aw, Barrington Pheloung has died. 

[freddi]

3 hours ago, M. Darcy said:

Aw, Barrington Pheloung has died. 

Thank you for the link -- that is a well done article, and has a link to the Morse theme.  I'm very sorry to hear this, and actually thought he was older than he was.  

[Pickles]

36 minutes ago, freddi said:

Thank you for the link -- that is a well done article, and has a link to the Morse theme.  I'm very sorry to hear this, and actually thought he was older than he was.  

The Morse theme is beautiful. Very sad news.

[Popples]

Production on the seventh series has started.

[Popples]

Endeavour has already been commissioned for an eighth series!

[LisainCali]

I love this show and found the finale of the season spectacular.  I couldn't take my eyes off the screen, even though I had been somewhat spoiled for what was to come.  It was fully engaging in a way that few things are for me these days.

 The only flaw in it is intrinsic to where Morse goes eventually.  I am saddened by seeing the sensitive, winning man we see on his way to bitter, cynical and lonely and I think, hopeless.  Maybe I am not remembering Morse well.  I liked the show and found the character interesting, but I don't think all that likable.  I haven't made an effort to see the original show and I'm not sure I want to.

 SORRY👆🏼  Tried to copy/paste but for some reason, it didn’t work!  Credit to Suzn, July 8. 👆🏼

——————————————————————————————————————

I, too, am disappointed in Endeavours cranky self in Season 5, and I’m only on Ep. 1!  The entire season is on Amazon Prime now.  I watched Inspector Morse a few years ago and absolutely loved it.  John Thaw is appealingly cranky.  

Inspector George Gently is also fantastic.  George Shaw does a wonderful job, and Lee Ingleby does a great job - my favorite character, I think.  A must-watch.  

Quote

[Suzn]

4 hours ago, LisainCali said:

I love this show and found the finale of the season spectacular.  I couldn't take my eyes off the screen, even though I had been somewhat spoiled for what was to come.  It was fully engaging in a way that few things are for me these days.

 The only flaw in it is intrinsic to where Morse goes eventually.  I am saddened by seeing the sensitive, winning man we see on his way to bitter, cynical and lonely and I think, hopeless.  Maybe I am not remembering Morse well.  I liked the show and found the character interesting, but I don't think all that likable.  I haven't made an effort to see the original show and I'm not sure I want to.

 SORRY👆🏼  Tried to copy/paste but for some reason, it didn’t work!  Credit to Suzn, July 8. 👆🏼

——————————————————————————————————————

I, too, am disappointed in Endeavours cranky self in Season 5, and I’m only on Ep. 1!  The entire season is on Amazon Prime now.  I watched Inspector Morse a few years ago and absolutely loved it.  John Thaw is appealingly cranky.  

Inspector George Gently is also fantastic.  George Shaw does a wonderful job, and Lee Ingleby does a great job - my favorite character, I think.  A must-watch.  

I'm still on the fence about trying to rewatch Morse, because I don't want it to spoil Endeavour for me. Endeavour is among a small handful of shows that I find compelling and worth my undivided attention of recent years.

[deirdra]

17 hours ago, Suzn said:

I'm still on the fence about trying to rewatch Morse, because I don't want it to spoil Endeavour for me. 

Rewatching Morse a year ago actually enhanced Endeavour for me since there are quirks and his interests that carry through both shows.  When I watched the first couple of episodes of Endeavour Season 1, all I could think was he's not Morse, but it didn't take long to reel me in. I really liked it when E adjusted his rear-view mirror & John Thaw's eyes were looking back.

[atlantaloves]

The Morse series is wonderful, it's old school detective....and I always thought he was wonderfully cranky, although kinda nasty to poor young Lewis. I also recommend the series George Gently, set in the 60's, and it is perfection, he is kinda sexy and cranky! It's on Acorn and they have free weeks all the time, that's how I caught up with Detective Gently. He's so yummy. 

[JudyObscure]

18 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

though kinda nasty to poor young Lewis.

Why do they do that?  Inspector Wexford isn't mean to Burden?  Lewis isn't mean to Hathaway, but so many are just awful.  I'm currently watching "Midsomer Murders" on Youtube.  The plots are good, the village is beautiful, all our favorite British actors show up, but the lead,  Chief Detective Barnaby is so sarcastic to his young Detective Troy that I've come to hate him.

[Popples]

 Series 7 has finished filming, now on to the wait until the air date to be released.

[Popples]

No US air date as of yet, but it will premiere on ITV Sunday, February 8. I'm a little bummed out that it's only 3 episodes.

 

[Popples]

Interviews with Ox in a Box about the upcoming series (Spoilers!):

Shaun Evans

Roger Allam

[2727]

First and foremost, I just love spending time with these characters.

Nice first episode, with a continuing storyline again. I don't enjoy seeing Thursday weary and drained, but this isn't a show that intends to make all its characters happy. To that end, another doomed romance for Morse.

[doyouevengohere]

Great episode.  All the characters are rather sad in this one. I bet all my imaginary money on Ludo being the serial killer from the toepath.

[2727]

I hope Thursday is right about the towpath killer and Molly Andrews. I hate seeing him so dejected and Morse doesn't freaking know everything! Would serve him right to be taken down a peg, the old sex scoundrel.

Does Thursday usually call Strange "Jim?" It sounded off to me.

[doyouevengohere]

I didn't like Raga.  It didn't pull me in and I had trouble concentrating on the details.  I thought the killer was sort of lame.  And I too thought that Morse was too hard on Thursday.  There's been plenty of times where Morse followed his instincts and followed leads that got him into trouble , but Fred was always kind about it.  Fred always has had Morse's back, even when he deserved punishment (like when the girl reporter in Game stole his notebook).  I just don't buy that this is the start of the riff that divides them.  And Morse always has had the attitude of , " I'm a policeman; I'm allowed anywhere."  He should give the same courtesy to Fred.  And Morse acts stupid/sloppy in this one- continuing with a married woman?   I thought previously that Ludo was a killer, but maybe it's Violetta.  She seems to have no remorse for things and seemed to be teasing Morse with the whole, "do you believe in sin" etc... talk.  Maybe she's a cold blooded killer and is insane and trying to get his attention anyway she can?  He should have stuck with Joan, sheesh.

And why aren't the police patrolling the towpath?  Two people have died there violently thus far , even though the police stupidly think they are not connected.  Fred is doing what a good policeman/detective should.  He should be more discrete but he's right about his hunch that the killer is still out there and Blish was not responsible for Molly Andrews or the perv.

Edited February 17, 2020 by doyouevengohere

[HollyG]

Just finished episode 3. I knew Ludo & his wife were involved in something. Poor Mr. & Mrs. Bright... just when things were looking up. I missed seeing Joan. Hopefully she will return next year. Will Morse leave for his new assignment or will he patch things up with Thursday? Hate having to wait a year...

[doyouevengohere]

That letter......the ending was great. The story about love I feel is between morse and the Thursdays,  specifically fred.

[2727]

Wonderful episode! I was on the edge of my seat a couple of times, which is not typical for this show. 

I enjoyed the more serialized nature of the season as a whole, which let the storyline play out at a more impactful pace. My favorite scene may be Dr. DeBryn telling off Morse and Thursday. I love Max. And Jim being the solid, non-dramatic voice of reason that he is.

Morse's letter at the end made me tear up, as did Bright remarking how (unfairly) suspicious and unwelcoming he had originally been towards Morse.

Someone on another site pointed out that the other cities that experienced a series of accidents were Leicester, Uttoxeter, Dover, and Oxford.

[Popples]

Even though I was so excited about this upcoming series, I was a bit reluctant to get into it, but I absolutely adored it.

 

Oracle:

I always hate when Morse and Thursday are at odds, it's so frustrating and infuriating to me.

I thought Dr. Blish's wife was going to end up being the murderer. Maybe her getting back at him chafing under his misogyny and possible infidelities or infatuations with other women under him at the research facility (he never mentions the pretty ones). Dude had some serious projection going on, talking about women in the laboratory made him uncomfortable because they're too emotional about who does or doesn't love them when it was him all along who had the wrong idea about unrequited affections.

 

Raga:

The fact that they had Roger Allam's wife Rebecca Saire back and their actual son, William, played her son that died really upset me. That must have been incredibly difficult for them. First, he came to tell her that her son was dead, then the scene in the morgue when she kept crying about him being cold while he was on the slab. I was DONE.

 

Zenana:

Certain parts of this episode felt like a horror film, which is a genre I tend to avoid, I had to pause it a couple of times to calm myself down and press on the finish it. All of those taxidermy animal statues really freaked me out.

I thought Mrs. Bright was going to die between series 6 and 7, but they bring her back just to kill her in an even worse fashion. Now poor Mr. Bright really has lost his entire family.

I loved that Max DeBryn was not here for Morse and Thursday's relationship breakdown at the scene of a murder.

It was nice to see that Strange realized that Morse was on to something with the life insurance business. Usually, Thursday is the one to listen, so seeing Strange picking that up was somewhat comforting.

Leicester, Uttoxeter, Dover, Oxford? Come on! At first, I thought that Ludo somehow knew that Morse and Violetta had already slept together (he seemed the overly jealous and possessive type that would have her followed anytime she was out of his sight) and was tormenting them by being super friendly and waiting for the right time to say, "I knew all along" and that he would try to kill Morse over her. Instead, he just kept Morse close so he couldn't see the forest for the trees about his shady dealings.

[Lois Sandborne]

On 3/14/2020 at 8:04 PM, Popples said:

Leicester, Uttoxeter, Dover, Oxford? Come on!

I thought that was goofy too for what's always such a cleverly written show.

I had to rewatch Zenana and let things marinate, to figure out what all had actually gone on this series and how I feel about it.

Long story short, I still don't know. There was so much going on. This has always been a show more interested in arcs than Morse or Lewis, but this felt super-serialized.  I can say I felt there wasn't enough Ms. Frazil or Dr. DeBryn. I don't necessarily mind Morse and Thursday being at odds, but I can't handle it when Morse is extra arrogant or disrespectful as he seemed here. I am glad they both ended up being wrong, but I wonder where they can go.

I had no idea that was Roger Allam's wife and son playing the bigots in Raga. Fun fact, but I agree that had to be eerie on set.

Speaking of eerie, those towpath scenes in every episode were a lot. I could tell each director was relishing the opportunity to shoot something atmospheric and creepy like that. Very cinematic indeed.

Poor Jim! A thankless middleman all year and ending up stabbed to boot. And poor Mr. Bright. He's come so far from the beginning. We knew Mrs. Bright would die, but the turnaround of it being not her illness but instead the insurance fuss was ... killer.

I didn't care for Ludo or Violetta. Ludo's character never felt realistic from the moment he got shoehorned in at the concert, and I still don't believe he was an old school acquaintance. Violetta just felt like a drag, and she took too long to die. The reveal of their marriage was well done though.

I can't help thinking the next series is going to be the last. I don't think we'll ever meet Inspector McNutt, but I wouldn't be opposed to an Easter Egg of PC Robbie Lewis.

[doyouevengohere]

I think they have said season 8 will be the last.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Watched an episode last night on PBS, great show as always.  Can't believe more people aren't watching this series!!!!!

[Suzn]

I re-watched the entire original Morse series.  I hadn't seen it since its run on PBS years ago.  I did like it at the time, but I have to say I was left not liking Morse much.  It was interesting, compelling even, but as much as I tried, I couldn't feel much sympathy for the character.  He was endlessly sad and bitter and forever picking the wrong woman.

I am now starting the re-watch of Endeavour and I really can't connect the old Morse with the young Morse.  At least I can see immediately that original series has not spoiled it for me and I am relieved.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Watched Season 5 come to a close, fantastic season, brilliantly done. The quality of the writing blows the competition like Chicago P.D. out of the water. 

[dargosmydaddy]

Season 7 starts in the US on August 9!

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/?subscriber=true&list_id=general

Also a combined Endeavour/ Grantchester trailer here:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/clips/summer-of-mystery-2020-preview/

[racked]

I just found this show a few weeks ago, and it's been the best binge-fest I think I've ever had. Truly one of the most phenomenal shows out there, I can't believe how it's slipped under the radar (at least here in the US). It's just beautiful and brilliant, in every way. 

I've one episode left in Season 7 so I'm avoiding the earlier replies, but I can see what others have mentioned about Morse becoming the cynical, lovelorn man in the Inspector Morse series.  He wasn't exactly wide-eyed when the series started, but certainly more hopeful. It feels as though both he and the show have finally let the Joan Thursday possibility go, and you can feel the emptiness surrounding that.  I so much love the premise of the series - that we get to see how character we know in his older years became the way he is, but the limitations of that can be very sad as well. 

Since I will soon be done with all the available seasons, I am going to deep dive into these actors other works. I saw Anton Lesser in GOT and he was good, but he is brilliant as Bright.  Apparently Roger was also in GOT? I've never seen Shaun in anything else. They're all so great on this show. 

[Popples]

35 minutes ago, racked said:

Since I will soon be done with all the available seasons, I am going to deep dive into these actors other works. I saw Anton Lesser in GOT and he was good, but he is brilliant as Bright.  Apparently Roger was also in GOT?

He played Illyrio Mopatis in the first season, the guy that introduces Dany and her brother to Khal Drogo and gives her the dragon eggs as a wedding gift.

[buttersister]

4 hours ago, racked said:

I've never seen Shaun in anything else.

Nor have I, that I recall. Although he was in Being Julia, the 2004 Annette Bening film. 😉  And had a ton of UK TV roles. The only one I've heard of is Inspector George Gently.

[dargosmydaddy]

I watched The Take recently just to see Shaun Evans (it's free on IMBD TV), and it was... very different than Endeavour! But he's really good in it. He was good in the couple episodes of Whitechapel he was in, too.

I adored Jack Laskey (Jakes) in X Company. I watched that before I got into Endeavour, and was disappointed at what a jerk Jakes was (at least in series one) because his character in X Company was the complete opposite.

[Dessert]

On 7/9/2020 at 7:47 PM, racked said:

I've never seen Shaun in anything else. They're all so great on this show. 

Amazon Prime is streaming several movies or series that he’s appeared in.

One of my favorites is a small independent film starring Shaun, Benedict Cumberbatch, and Claire Foy. Shaun stands out as Benedict’s brother - a vet suffering from PTSD.

He’s very good in The Take. Sparkle is a light comedy with an excellent cast.

[freddi]

I came here for information on the start date for the PBS airing of Season 7 of "Endeavour" -- and barely escaped reading reactions here to episodes in Season 7!  I guess those are from viewers in the UK?  Guess I'll be staying off the thread for a while; too bad.  

[Driad]

Agreed.  This show really needs separate threads for separate seasons, at least.

[magdalene]

I almost got spoiled coming here to post about a PBS repeat episode tonight.  Shakes head.  Why don't we have separate UK and US threads anymore?

Anyways, PBS re-aired the one where Morse  has his head turned and almost hooks up with that poison pen murderer.  You could see something die in him when he saw how vile she was. 

I remember how much this episode upset me on first watch.  Between another doomed Morse attempt at romance,  poor Bright and his wife,  and that gut-punch of a final scene....

[JudyObscure]

I thought last night was supposed to be the premier, but my Google question says Season 7 begins August 9th.  So I wonder what happens next Sunday, Aug 2nd?  I was hoping they were going to re-run all last season before restarting, but I guess we will just get a random show or two because that's how PBS likes to mess with me.

Fingers crossed that next Sunday is last season's finale with the stand off between the two police factions. That was the last one we watched, right?

[magdalene]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I thought last night was supposed to be the premier, but my Google question says Season 7 begins August 9th.  So I wonder what happens next Sunday, Aug 2nd?  I was hoping they were going to re-run all last season before restarting, but I guess we will just get a random show or two because that's how PBS likes to mess with me.

Fingers crossed that next Sunday is last season's finale with the stand off between the two police factions. That was the last one we watched, right?

Yes,  next Sunday is last season's finale. They had a preview.