Endeavour - General Discussion

[Suzn]

I so much looked forward to the return of Endeavor and was disappointed in this episode.  Morse seemed to be drunk or hungover and uninterested in doing his job.  I don't remember ever seeing him so disconnected from the work.  I'm also disappointed that there are only three episodes this season.  There's no time to get any momentum in two remaining episodes.

After few seasons of Endeavor I re-watched the original Morse and discovered that I really didn't like the character much and had trouble connecting young Endeavor with the much older Morse.  It looks like they are dragging Endeavor down to mesh with him.

[statsgirl]

My hair was long and straight (because it was straight) with a centre part but there are pictures of me for my grade 8 graduation in 1968 with curls from various curlers (none of which stayed till the end of the evening).

Strange looked so different, I had to go to imdb to check if they had recast the character.

I was sure that Morse not asking for his relief's ID would end up in Jackie being killed by the relief guy.

Why bring up Jackie's mixed race if they were going to do nothing with it?

The Morse/Joan tease is just painful now. Run girl, run and find someone else who cares for you and will do something about it.

[LennieBriscoe]

I must add this:

The show "Endeavour: The Evolution" is superb! Check your PBS channel; mine is showing it as I type!

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

As an aside - does anybody know why the actor who plays Jim Strange lost so much weight? 

I read that he went on a diet and lost 87pounds after his doctor said he had high cholesterol. I just take Zocor and keep on eating.

[LennieBriscoe]

6 hours ago, tootsie said:

Found the puzzles surprisingly and disappointingly Un-puzzling (Dollhouse discovery seemed really a stretch to me, the clock in the magazine photo a minor clue at best, and the final denouement with the killer unintelligible. All imho, however.) But It was like catching up with a bunch of good friends, whom I hadn't seen in a couple of years and really missed and I enjoyed every minute of the episode. (Except maybe "Miss Thursday"''s criticism of Morse's drinking, which grated a bit and seemed particularly unfeeling. Or was it just me?)  I agree with some previous comments about Morse's sloppy police work. Not asking for his replacement's i.d. was glaring. But since even a whiney, sloppy Endeavour puts me in a good mood, I'll credit the writer(s) with doing that purposefully to show how low our bright, young detective has fallen. I will not, however, hear anything bad about my man, Bright. Who cares if he's keeping up with the 70's? He shot a tiger in the garden, and showed up at the O.K. Corral shootout, for crying out loud. He'll always be a shining star in my sky. 

Excellent reminder about Bright; thank you. Plus, he showed us true love, not an easy depiction to find these days. 

[magdalene]

6 hours ago, tootsie said:

I will not, however, hear anything bad about my man, Bright. Who cares if he's keeping up with the 70's? He shot a tiger in the garden, and showed up at the O.K. Corral shootout, for crying out loud. He'll always be a shining star in my sky. 

Oh yes!  To me Bright has been the big character surprise of the show.  In the beginning it looked like he was going to be the stick in the mud antagonist figure in the police - always being unfair to our hero Endeavour, etc. You know that trope.  But boy, did that all change eventually!.  When he saved Morse from that tiger and then expressed such regret about having to kill the animal I changed my perception of him completely. And the love he had for his wife made me cry long before her tragic end.  Great character played by a fantastic actor who often gets cast as villain.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

4 hours ago, buttersister said:

I dunno. I drifted a bit, likely because what LennieBriscoe said.

I practically yelled at the relief cop for his ID, then again, when he went to get shot, uh, get the door.

So this is Sean’s Morse melding into (my beloved) John Thaw’s Morse? Ok. I guess. Car, check. Opera, check. Drinking, checking in. Bad luck with women, oh yeah. But shitty body guarding? Really? I’m in but Russell’s script wasn’t very good, here’s hoping those improve.

I kept noticing Morse not turning down those drinks.  The man definitely appears to be going through some depression. Remember back when Endeavour had no problem attracting the ladies, sad to see how things are between him and Joan. There was a time where I thought that could have been good. I'm ok if things work between Jim and Joan.  As has been mentioned, perhaps what we 're seeing now is the beginning of what we hear later on Inspector Morse series about Morse's drinking problem that follows him??? Always love to see Reginald again, sad that  his wife is so very ill, at least he has Thursday there as his loyal friend and confidant.  This truly is a great series.

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, Alistaire said:

I have watched only the first Season 8 episode on PBS and have stayed away from the forum since someone deliberately spoiled the season for me last autumn.

I  must have been too dense to notice it because I only watch as it's aired on my PBS station and would hate to be spoiled as much as you.  Please stay and who ever it was can stand warned.

I defended Strange for making a move, because I expected he was unaware of Morse's feelings, but I didn't really think about what Joanie was doing.  She's always been careless with Endeavor's feelings.  Maybe she takes after her mother and has a very great capacity for unforgiving coldness. To me, Joanie herself is a "lesser soul" than Endeavor and her attraction to Strange may be a case of water seeking it's own shallow level.

It's a consolation to me that Thursday chooses Endeavor.

[EtheltoTillie]

I found the episode a bit draggy and confusing. But I guess Morse is currently depressed. I had a feeling something was going to come up about the Troubles after the opening, but I couldn’t have anticipated the train wreck on my screen. Thanks to all of you who took the time to post comments.

As for 1971 hairdos, I too was in high school them. Many people continued wearing long stick straight hair parted in the middle, but I was not one of them, as I never had straight hair. I used to try to straighten my hair on giant rollers at night.  Then I was able to switch to the shag do. 

I loved the set decor on this episode. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[Daff]

14 hours ago, magdalene said:

Oh yes!  To me Bright has been the big character surprise of the show.  In the beginning it looked like he was going to be the stick in the mud antagonist figure in the police - always being unfair to our hero Endeavour, etc. You know that trope.  But boy, did that all change eventually!.  When he saved Morse from that tiger and then expressed such regret about having to kill the animal I changed my perception of him completely. And the love he had for his wife made me cry long before her tragic end.  Great character played by a fantastic actor who often gets cast as villain.

I agree, and love the character, but his return to doubting young Morse in the last episode of season 7 kind of grated (“gave him his head”-ugh, he’s not a horse). His overall attitude toward Morse vacillated with the wind. One of Bright’s character traits I’ve never liked. 

[Daff]

40 minutes ago, Alistaire said:

He keeps tiny parakeets but can be cold as ice to Morse.

…and to allow himself license to chastise, torment the cat!

[Daff]

Throughout the seven series I’ve noticed many subtle “Morse” gestures affected in Sean’s acting (even though he’s frankly stated he has never seen an episode). At the end of this one, as he’s shown leaning on a bar, over a drink, cigarette burning, head down I got that feeling again (it’s a sudden chill). I wonder if Abigail Thaw plants subtle bugs in his ear?

[12catcrazy]

I watch in "real time" (Sunday nights channel 13) so no spoilers will come from me (plus I hate that too).  Anyway, I don't understand those of you who feel that Thursday (and his wife!) are "cold".    My take on that time and culture is that people weren't supposed to act warm and fuzzy but to keep that stiff upper lift.   And I can sure understand Mrs. Thursday's anger when she found out that her husband lent their retirement savings to his problematic brother without so much as discussing it with her first.  

I do think that Joan might be a narcissist but she seems to want to help people and her comment to Endeavor about stinking of booze wasn't incorrect.   And Endeavor is no saint - Violette was supposedly a married woman (which didn't stop him from having an affair with her) and early on in the series - wasn't he dating a nice nurse who finally packed it in with him because he wasn't spending enough time with her?    It makes me wonder if Joan all of a sudden threw herself at him,  he'd go running in the other direction.   I think that a large part of Joan's appeal to him is that she is "the one that got away".   She doesn't want him so that makes her that more attractive.    And Jim Strange seems to be an overall decent man; he doesn't have Morse's demons and in the real world, that would make him much easier to live with long term.  

[Driad]

10 hours ago, Daff said:

Throughout the seven series I’ve noticed many subtle “Morse” gestures affected in Sean’s acting (even though he’s frankly stated he has never seen an episode).

Do people think the "Young Morse" actor watching the "Older Morse" show would be a good idea or not? People do change, so it might seem unrealistic if YM had all of OM's gestures, but many of us enjoy seeing some similarities.

[Daff]

9 hours ago, Driad said:

Do people think the "Young Morse" actor watching the "Older Morse" show would be a good idea or not? People do change, so it might seem unrealistic if YM had all of OM's gestures, but many of us enjoy seeing some similarities.

Probably best he didn’t, and I think that’s a tribute to his professionalism. He needed to make the (unknown to us, but hinted at throughout the original series) character his own. Perhaps the similar gestures are merely the result of “shared” human emotions, sensibilities. It sure is a thrill, though, when they appear. 

[cardigirl]

23 hours ago, Daff said:

Throughout the seven series I’ve noticed many subtle “Morse” gestures affected in Sean’s acting (even though he’s frankly stated he has never seen an episode). At the end of this one, as he’s shown leaning on a bar, over a drink, cigarette burning, head down I got that feeling again (it’s a sudden chill). I wonder if Abigail Thaw plants subtle bugs in his ear?

Lord I hope not.  For me this is the weakest part of the series, that one of the supposed "draws" for the show is that John Thaw's daughter is acting in them. That annoys me.  I loved Morse and John Thaw's portrayal, but this series is something of its own, and doesn't need the link, in my opinion. Her character always feels shoehorned in. 

This latest episode was not the best, sadly, even though Shaun directed it.  It was cut together badly, in my opinion.  

[dargosmydaddy]

I didn't get a chance to watch Sunday night, and then spent Monday night watching the season 6 finale that one of the PBS affiliates in my area was showing as a prelude to season 8 (I have no idea why they chose 6 over 7, but I wholeheartedly approve... I love that showdown at the end of season 6!), and then finally watched the season 8 premiere on the PBS website last night. Maybe it helped to go in with low expectations (I am not spoiler averse and had already read all the discussion here), but I enjoyed it!

Morse is indeed the world's worst body guard, and I do kind of wish Bright had let him have it (because you could tell he was totally thinking it right after Martinelli's death). Good on Joan for telling him off for drinking on the job. And while I do think Joan has treated Morse badly in the past, I have no issue with her accepting Strange's invitation. The potential Morse-Joan ship has long since sailed, and neither of them should have to think about how their potential dates would affect the other person at this point.

[LennieBriscoe]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:13 AM, Alistaire said:

Oh, man, did you state this eloquently! I'm jealous (and will read your posts from now through this series' end, because I know you won't spoil it). I think Fred is as cold as his wife; Roger Allam was, is, and will always be "Endeavour's" draw for me. He keeps tiny parakeets but can be cold as ice to Morse. And I love Thursday like crazy. :)

However, Joan always struck me as a narcissist. (Sorry, a brutal season of "Shetland" I'm sure influenced my opinion of the character.) You're 100% right, Joan is a lesser soul.

Ha, tell that to your young self twenty, thirty, forty years ago, when you thought Mr./Ms. Right was Adonis or Aphrodite incarnate... and see them marry what I call a God-bless-them slug. God-bless-them slugs are truly wonderful people. They are; that's what hurts so bad. They don't realize they're getting the narcissist that fate (or the Almighty) saves the secret lover from.

Truly genius writing decision. Nothing kills youthful idealism faster than mediocrity too up-close and personal :)

Sometimes "slugs" are just that; nothing inherently noble about the sort. 

Maybe his new appearance (perhaps just a fortuitous achievement by Rigby that the writers took advantage of) is what might be considered  Strange's "new-found confidence" in asking out Joan.

I don't find Strange any lesser a person than Endeavour; indeed, why put the latter above anyone else, character-wise? I mean, I ❤ the actor Shaun Evans (and have since "The Take"), but I don't love the character Morse. He can be a holier-than-thou prig, especially  with Thursday. 

When push came to shove, "City Man" Strange stood fast with the Good Guys. There's a reason in the original series Strange is seen as Morse's boss. 

I also don't find Fred Thursday to be "cold"---to anyone. His adored daughter leaves his home in a fit of 60s rebellious pique. His beloved wife freezes him out to go dancing with other men, because Fred, foolishly but with love, trusted his brother. But to neither woman, as he admits to his mistakes and faults, is Fred ever "cold." Reserved, yes. British, yes. 

As to being that way to Endeavour, if he is, then Thursday is "cold" ("stern" instead, perhaps?) as a father-figure expecting not only the best of his extremely talented but sometimes difficult  "son," but also that the younger man will respect the experiences of and lessons learned by his elder. When Endeavour scoffs or outright rejects, then yes, Fred can get his back up and offer a trenchant response.

Thursday is a fervent believer in justice in ALL its forms, polite or rough. There's emotion for sure in that man. 

I'll reiterate: Roger Allam is fantastic as the witty but modern-tech-challenged Peter Mannion in "The Thick of It"! 

[Zella]

I've not caught the latest season, but I just don't see Morse as a prize. Joan is awful to him, but he has been awful to other women in his life. I say this with a lot of affection for the character in Endeavour and Shaun Evans' depiction of him, but he is a trainwreck of a person. I like Strange. He may not be as brilliant as Morse, but he is a good deal more stable and reliable. If anything, I feel bad for him getting stuck with Joan. 

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

When push came to shove, "City Man" Strange stood fast with the Good Guys.

Yep, the more I think about it,  I'm beginning to regret implying that Strange was shallow compared to Endeavor.  All four men brought tears to my eyes that day, for their courage and unquestioning willingness to stand by one of their own.

I agree with you about Thursday, too.  I never thought he seemed cold.  He just carries himself with great  dignity.  I imagine he thinks a certain formality befits his position.  

[Popples]

6 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I'll reiterate: Roger Allam is fantastic as the witty but modern-tech-challenged Peter Mannion in "The Thick of It"! 

"I think I just took a picture of my feet!"

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Alistaire said:

Roger Allam, with whom I am in hopeless tv-love. (Parakeets.) 🦜🦜

Thursday with whom I am in love (so brave and the ballroom dancing).

Bright with whom I am in love (so brave with tigers, so gentle with his wife.)

Strange with whom I am in love (so brave when needed, so modestly hardworking and loyal).

Endeavor with whom I am in love  (so brave, brilliant and permanently heart broken.)

Sigh.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Roger Allam plays the hell out of the role of DI Fred Thursday.  A mid to late 50 year old veteran of 30+ years on  the police force. A man who has had to deal with the  filthiest underbelly society dishs out. I'm sure it takes a mighty toll on a person. One things for sure, I'd be honored to have a solid DI like that backing me up.

Edited June 30, 2022 by One4Sorrow2TooBad

[Zella]

4 hours ago, Alistaire said:

because she loved rejecting him right from the start,

Yes I would agree with this assessment of Joan. It wasn't super obvious at the time when I first watched, but in retrospect, I think she always liked toying with him. And I wouldn't be surprised if the fact she was always somehow unattainable was a big part of her appeal to him. It's a really toxic dynamic from both parties. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Zella

[magdalene]

Would Strange even know that Morse used to have a thing for Joan?

I don't dislike Joan, I think part of the reason this relationship faltered and died on the vine so to speak is down to bad timing and both characters are kind of bristly. I am not convinced they would have made a happy marriage.  Morse has bad luck with women but he also made some bad choices along the way.

I don't think any of these characters are lesser than the others. I love Morse and I love these characters but they all have their flaws - one of the reasons this show is so good.

I have come to the conclusion that Morse isn't capable of happiness - there are people like that.

[EtheltoTillie]

FYI. All the new episodes are already available on PBS Passport for anyone who cares to binge watch. I have not watched 2 and 3 yet myself, but I will probably watch both before they air on regular TV.  

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, Alistaire said:

Yep. If you rewatch the entire series from the beginning, you see her coyness, which becomes cruelty.

I'll never forget Joan totally ghosting her own parents when she shacked up with the married guy.  Such a selfish little bitch.  Strange is too good for her, hell, anyone is too good for her.  I don't care if the writers have her taking care of blind, one-legged orphans, she still a selfish little bitch.

[statsgirl]

The problem with Endeavour and Joan is that he has to be single by the time the original series is to start. Thoughts on Endeavour: Why Joan Thursday Has To Choose Strange Over Morse

On 6/21/2022 at 11:12 AM, 12catcrazy said:

I don't understand those of you who feel that Thursday (and his wife!) are "cold".    My take on that time and culture is that people weren't supposed to act warm and fuzzy but to keep that stiff upper lift.   And I can sure understand Mrs. Thursday's anger when she found out that her husband lent their retirement savings to his problematic brother without so much as discussing it with her first. 

The Thursdays are very recognizable to me from my English in-laws. I couldn't believe how little they cared for each other or their problems. I remember a family wedding (in the 1980s) where a cousin was having trouble with her two young children ages one and two, and her mother-in-law told her to get them under control, saying "I raised my kids, now you raise yours." In the culture I was raised in, there would have been aunts and cousins as well as grandparents rushing to help.-

The Thursdays are very much of their time and culture.

[WatchrTina]

On 6/20/2022 at 12:14 PM, tootsie said:

I will not, however, hear anything bad about my man, Bright. Who cares if he's keeping up with the 70's? He shot a tiger in the garden, and showed up at the O.K. Corral shootout, for crying out loud. He'll always be a shining star in my sky. 

Amen!

As for this latest season . . . meh!.  I binged my way through the three new eps yesterday and today and I feel let down.  For example I could not summarize the latest episode, which I JUST watched, to save my life.  I spent the whole time watching it thinking "Oh no, not a people-trapped-in-a-house-with-a-killer-during-a-storm thriller."  I feel like I've seen that so many times (isn't that the plot of Agatha Christie's "Ten Little Indians".  Or am I thinking of "And Then There Were None?" Whatever . . . it's a well-worn thriller/mystery trope.)

"Thriller/Mystery" . . . maybe that's why I hated that episode.  I love me a good British police procedural (e.g., Vera, Shetland, Midsomer Murders) but I don't care for thrillers.  That's why I loved the earlier season finale with the "O. K. Corral shootout" described in the quote above but just couldn't stay focused on the third episode of this season.  As for the first two episodes -- I've already forgotten them.  I know a sports figure was involved (soccer?  rugby?) and Endeavour was the world's worst choice of bodyguard.  No wait, I do recall having this early thought during that episode . . . that Endeavour was actually a GOOD choice for a body guard because he wasn't star-struck by the players and he would stay where he was stationed during the game rather than sneak up into the stadium to watch the game. That's all I can recall from that episode . . . that and the fact that the body he was guarding gets whacked.  (Or was it a different player?  Sheesh I've already forgotten.)

Oh well.  This commentary isn't very insightful.  I guess the good news is that I can re-watch the whole season a few months from now and it will be like new to me since I obviously retained NOTHING.  That contrasts markedly with the "O. K. Corral" episode and the related "adulterated concrete / building collapse / corrupt cops" plot line which STILL sticks in my mind all these years later.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

 I feel like I've seen that so many times (isn't that the plot of Agatha Christie's "Ten Little Indians".  Or am I thinking of "And Then There Were None?" Whatever . . . it's a well-worn thriller/mystery trope.)

It's the same book, so you are correct on both counts! It was eventually retitled. 

[Suzn]

I've also watched all three episodes and re-watched the third.  I'm not posting any spoilers so will wait till all have been shown before writing about it.  At that point, I'm going to ask someone to explain the plot to me.  So confused...😕

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, Alistaire said:

I'm just wondering how people feel about a topic I've brought up since Endeavour started--this ridiculous perceived need to "sync" with "Inspector Morse."

For years, I've argued "Endeavour" should not be just a mere prequel because that would take all the drama out of it. Although I haven't seen the two final episodes of Season 8 (please no spoilers), I rewatched "Striker" to see why I thought it was so bad. And I realized that genuflecting to canon had a lot to do with its poor quality. I still don't understand why and don't care who killed the victim.

No matter what happens in the final two episodes, being chained to the perceived need (perceived by whom?) to be a mere prequel damns at least the character of Endeavour. I just Do.Not.Get why the writers/producers apparently felt obliged to not be inventive and go their own way. Once a series becomes a beloved masterpiece, it owes nothing to any fictional canon. If lovers of "Inspector Morse" wanted to write their congressman 🤠 about a happy Shaun Evans' Morse, amen. Long ago, I said, "Let 'em."

The only developments possible now for Endeavour involve dotting all the "I"s and crossing all the "T"s of a descent into cynicism and bitterness. Wow, talk about sticking a fork in it to see if it's done. There may be surprises for the other characters, but think of how this affects the actors in the cast! For that matter, think of how it affects Shaun Evans. 

A true crying shame that this genius production will end as a mere coda of itself. Perhaps "Endeavour" should have ended with "DeGuello."

This may be the essence of the increasing problem I've had with Endeavor.  For all his flaws, I have liked the young Morse and have dreaded him becoming the old Morse.  As I have written before, I revisited Morse after a few seasons of Endeavor and discovered that I really didn't like the bitter and joyless old Morse.

So the show just leaves me feeling sad and hopeless now, watching the young Morse become the old Morse.

[Dessert]

3 hours ago, Alistaire said:

A true crying shame that this genius production will end as a mere coda of itself. Perhaps "Endeavour" should have ended with "DeGuello."

Sorry. I don’t get the love for DeGuello. I found the ending overly sentimental.

I find the depiction of Morse’s journey towards his ultimate destiny compelling. It’s frustrating, because I want him to be happier, but know that will not happen. For all his flaws, he’s a decent man.

On the other hand, I don’t think older Morse was completely miserable or a failure as a human being. There were many things about his life that he seemed to enjoy.

[WatchrTina]

On 6/25/2022 at 2:00 PM, Alistaire said:

No matter what happens in the final two episodes, being chained to the perceived need (perceived by whom?) to be a mere prequel damns at least the character of Endeavour. I just Do.Not.Get why the writers/producers apparently felt obliged to not be inventive and go their own way. Once a series becomes a beloved masterpiece, it owes nothing to any fictional canon.

I hold the opposite view.  It seems clear to me that Endeavour's whole raison d'être is to explain how the Inspector Morse character we know and (sometimes) love evolved into that man after starting out as the fresh-faced young detective we met in the original episode of Endeavour (which, if I'm not mistaken, was intended as a stand-alone, one-off story.)  Once the decision was made to turn Endeavour into a series I would argue that they really could not ignore the challenge of connecting the two versions of the character.  If they had done that, there really would have been no point to the show.  They could have just served up a detective show set in Oxford in the late 60s, focused on DI Fred Thursday and some clever-but-too-big-for-his-britches newbie detective.  (Actually, they sort-of already did their version of that scenario with the earlier Morse spin-off/sequel "Lewis.")

To my mind the whole point of the new show was to construct a plausible backstory for Morse -- one that addressed the lingering question of WHY Morse dropped out of Oxford.  I think viewers of the original series came to understand that Morse had to drop out due to money woes  but I don't recall if the whole story of his romantic disappointment, which led to his flunking out, which led to his losing his scholarship was ever fully explained in the original series (though I DO recall that extraordinary episode in the original series where Morse has to investigate a crime involving the family that would have been his in-laws had the relationship not broken down.)

I also think that setting themselves that challenge of creating a plausible back-story was a key driver of the show.  It's not like they spent a LOT of time delving into it.  I feel like 95% of the episodes were wholly focused on Endeavour's efforts to investigate the crime-of-the-week (subject to the constraints of work-place conflict exacerbated by Morse's prickly personality and his off-putting, sometimes condescending manner with his co-workers.)  But I very much appreciate the 5% of screen time they spent on delving into Morse's "origin story."  That, for me, was a vital part of what made the show compelling.

Edited June 27, 2022 by WatchrTina

[Suzn]

4 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

To my mind the whole point of the new show was to construct a plausible backstory for Morse.

You may be absolutely right as to the intent of the show, but it doesn't change my view at all.  To see the transformation of young Morse into the old one is just tragic to me.  The only way I could enjoy Endeavor after re-watching Morse was to disregard what Morse became.

[Driad]

"Scherzo" usually refers to light, vigorous, or playful music.  They were busy, at least, in this episode.

Endeavour returned to his flat and found a note.  I assume it was from his stepmother, saying she had left, but what was the word on the outside of the envelope?  The word looked too short fo be Endeavour.

Has anyone explained why this show has characters with unusual names, such as Strange and Thursday?  Are those names less unusual in England? (In the US we know Joe Friday of Dragnet, but I never heard of anyone named Thursday before this show.)

[HelenBaby]

14 minutes ago, Driad said:

"Scherzo" usually refers to light, vigorous, or playful music.  They were busy, at least, in this episode.

Endeavour returned to his flat and found a note.  I assume it was from his stepmother, saying she had left, but what was the word on the outside of the envelope?  The word looked too short fo be Endeavour.

Has anyone explained why this show has characters with unusual names, such as Strange and Thursday?  Are those names less unusual in England? (In the US we know Joe Friday of Dragnet, but I never heard of anyone named Thursday before this show.)

I think the note did have Endeavour written on it. All of the handwriting on the note, sparse as it was, was small. 

[sugarbaker design]

40 minutes ago, Driad said:

Endeavour returned to his flat and found a note.  I assume it was from his stepmother, saying she had left, but what was the word on the outside of the envelope?  The word looked too short fo be Endeavour.

It was Morse.

41 minutes ago, Driad said:

Has anyone explained why this show has characters with unusual names, such as Strange and Thursday?

All of the head cops in the Morse, Lewis and Endeavour worlds have had last names as ironic adjectives:  Strange, Innocent, Bright.

2 hours ago, Alistaire said:

The entire episode was about couples and how necessary it is to be attached to someone. 

I thought it was the exact opposite.

2 hours ago, Alistaire said:

To wit: Roger Allam's closing, ominous line. It's just an older married male's way of saying we deserve what's coming to us.

I love it when Thursday takes the moral high ground, after he squandered his and Win's retirement money.  Hypocrite!

2 hours ago, Alistaire said:

Jim is head over heels with Joan

Run for your life Strange!  She's no good!

[Suzn]

Is the next season to be the last?

[M. Darcy]

On 6/25/2022 at 6:16 PM, Dessert said:

On the other hand, I don’t think older Morse was completely miserable or a failure as a human being.

And, at the end, he had good relationships with people - Robbie Lewis and the woman he was dating who got him to admit his first name.  And Strange.  One of his final acts was to protect Strange.

I don't know if i was just tired or that was confusing last night.  I thought it was the young creepy cab driver.  Because he was damn creepy. 

Terry Pratchett shoutout!   Cable Street!   And the porn kind of amused me because old Morse loved porn movies (at least book Morse did in the early books). 

2 hours ago, Driad said:

In the US we know Joe Friday of Dragnet, but I never heard of anyone named Thursday before this show.)

There is a British mystery series where the heroine is named Thursday Next 

[12catcrazy]

This second episode was much better than last week's.   I guess that Endeavour's step mother was thrown in to give us some more of his backstory: his father drove a cab and left him and his mother for another woman who very obviously resented him.   "We took you in!" she screamed at him - like lady, he was your husband's SON.   And she was being very high and mighty and moral in her indignation that some couple were "staying in the same room and not being married".  Yet she apparently had an affair with a married man who she took away from his family.   The woman was a first class bitch and harridan and its a wonder that Endeavor even let her stay there.

There were a lot of red herrings in this episode.  The thing about the episode being about "couples" certainly eluded me.  I had an inkling who the killer was from two things: him talking about his daughter (and all her names) and that her photo was in some magazines.  I thought she looked like the model that Bright was painting and I also thought she looked like the girl in the porn movie.  And it also seemed to be a big connection to the taxi cab company and the murders - I also wondered if the creepy cabby had something to do with the murders and worried that he was going to come after Joan (well, he knew where she lived).  

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Alistaire in wondering if we have a foreshadowing of what is going to happen to Thursday.  I didn't get a good feeling when he said what he did to the London corrupt cop (not sure if the guy was still a cop and obviously involved with the sex trade or if he was an ex-cop who switched sides).  This is going to go further for sure and I don't think that the Thursdays are going to get a happy ending.   And with their son serving in Northern Ireland at that period of time - too much chance for tragedy.  

A few years ago I read an interview with Shaun Evans where he said that he didn't  want to continue with "Endeavour" past the late 60s or so because he felt that it would be getting too close to the "Morse" era and that they would have to show the transition to the character being Morse.   Seems as if that's what they are now doing.  I would have been happy (in a sad way) if they would have ended the show in Season 6 with that epic showdown.  

And finally, about the names.  When I was in the Air Force, we had a guy in our squad named Daniel Strange and another guy named James Looney.   They got kidded a lot and we all used to joke that our squad was the only one on the base with a Loony AND a Strange.  

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, Suzn said:

Is the next season to be the last?

I am bound to be disappointed, sad and frustrated, but I wouldn't miss watching nonetheless.  I am saddened at what I expect to be the final transformation into the "old" Morse and I fear for Thursday and family.  I think they are going to break my heart.

[gingerella]

Question: I'm only just now funding Endeavor. Is it best to watch Endeavor from the beginning all the way through, and then watch Morse? Or Visa versa? Or doesn't it matter?

[mjc570]

Maybe I watch too many of these shows, but I thought the rational for the killings was instantly obvious as soon as the person (I know spoilers are ok, but still trying to be discreet here) had a picture of his daughter highlighted.

That whole business with the clocks was preposterous, and completely unnecessary.  

I didn't think I could love R. Bright any more after the tiger, but the compassion he showed to the young woman was amazing (especially for those times).  He could so easily have been an inflexible martinet, but wonderful acting and writing has made him a fully human character.

I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at how unprofessional Joan was with the DV victim, I have to think it is partially her dislike of Morse.  She came on so strong in counseling the woman not to talk to Morse, when he was hardly harassing or badgering her.

[Constant Viewer]

7 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Question: I'm only just now funding Endeavor. Is it best to watch Endeavor from the beginning all the way through, and then watch Morse? Or Visa versa? Or doesn't it matter?

I don't think it matters. I enjoy Endeavor and Lewis, but can't really get into Morse for some reason. 

[Dessert]

56 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at how unprofessional Joan was with the DV victim, I have to think it is partially her dislike of Morse.  She came on so strong in counseling the woman not to talk to Morse, when he was hardly harassing or badgering her.

This surprised me, too. I volunteered at a battered women’s center in the 1970s and I don’t remember anyone discouraging a victim from talking to the police. Actually, it was difficult to get the police to take wife beating seriously.

[Daff]

8 hours ago, Alistaire said:

I even pitied Gwen big-time, after her startling appearance

I quite thought, from the Gwen presented to us in “Morse”, that she actually would have spent two days in the train station, waiting for her new digs to be available, rather than to position herself “beholden” to Endeavour. Loved the note labeled for “Morse” (isn’t that her name, too?). I do agree with you, much better episode than the opener. So much character progression within the two hours! All of the supporting cast really came through. Especially Thursday, who made it very clear that he’s a straight, stand-up copper who won’t get fooled again (isn’t it about time for some “Who”?). Bright shone through, and revealed sensitivity and hidden talents. Strange is a prince (I keep thinking back to Morse’s curmudgeonly boss-who knew?). Joan is coming into her own. All is right with the world, except for Morse fitting in (as it should be). 

[Driad]

When the cab dispatcher showed a photo of his daughter (as a child IIRC) and said that her name in English was Joan, I wondered for a moment if the Thursdays had adopted the girl and the plot was about to become more complicated.

[Daff]

7 hours ago, HelenBaby said:

I think the note did have Endeavour written on it. All of the handwriting on the note, sparse as it was, was small. 

The note said “Morse”, on the outside of the fold. The contents merely said, “New address,” gave the address, and I don’t think it was even signed. (It was just a bit annoying, how many times I had to stop the action and approach the screen to Read Content this episode, but I gleaned much). 

[12catcrazy]

Was there a significance in how the step mother just wrote her new address on the note and addressed it as "Morse" ?  I've never seen the original "Morse" series so I wonder if I am missing out on some of what they are now showing us.