S02.E08: Someday...

[Pallas]

Midge and Susie gear up for their first roadtrip, and quickly learn that the dynamics of going on tour are more challenging than they thought. Back in New York, it's business as usual while Midge is away, forcing her to wonder if her new life is worth sacrificing her home life.

[ChlcGirl]

As someone who lived in both Philadelphia AND Harrisburg, I squeeeeeeeed embarrassingly when I heard the itinerary.  I also yelled at the TV when Susie mentioned Harrisburg's Civil War Museum since it didn't open till the early 2000s.

[Mindthinkr]

I loved how Midge’s Mom left her the mess from the baby shower. 

It was nice that Joel came and got Susie out of the janitors closet and are sure that they got paid. 

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I loved how Midge’s Mom left her the mess from the baby shower. 

It was nice that Joel came and got Susie out of the janitors closet and are sure that they got paid. 

It honestly annoyed the hell out of me. Manly man Joel has to come in and save the day. I rolled my eyes so hard.

[hincandenza]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

It honestly annoyed the hell out of me. Manly man Joel has to come in and save the day. I rolled my eyes so hard.

It was 1959, it's not that unusual that a club would try to stiff an act on some hopped-up pretense- doubly so when a woman of that time didn't have any real recourse with a shady booking manager other than finding a "manly man" to use violence when persuasion and pleading don't work.

In truth, that scene led to my favorite Susie moment of the season, or one of them.  Just after Joel punches the guy and notes that a sentence starting "Maybe you should make sure your wife..." was going to end with him getting hit regardless... Susie looks at Joel with a little twinkle in her eye and says under her breath "Whole new light, pal!".  Meaning, Joel so impressed hard-bitten Rockaways native Susie, in that moment he went from laughable loser and spoiled son of privilege to "Oh, so that's why Midge would ever have married this boring schlub".

[shapeshifter]

[Susie] You may be a damsel in distress, but I'm not.

[Midge] No, you're a damsel in di-closet.

 

 

5 HOURS AGO, QTPYE SAID:

It honestly annoyed the hell out of me. Manly man Joel has to come in and save the day. 

But Joel's not that big and manly, and, more than just being a man flying in to the rescue, he told the owner that his nephew was a bad manager for treating them that way because it was Midge who could "put the place on the map." It was a man's world (and often still is), but Joel is supportive of Midge's career. He was taking care of the kids. As the season progresses, it looks like they're setting Joel up to be the business part of Midge's management team—if he doesn't die of syphilis first—while I guess Susie deals with finding the gigs.

Edited December 8, 2018 by shapeshifter

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

[Susie] You may be a damsel in distress, but I'm not.

[Midge] No, you're a damsel in di-closet.

 

 

But Joel's not that big and manly, and, more than just being a man flying in to the rescue, he told the owner that his nephew was a bad manager for treating them that way because it was Midge who could "put the place on the map." It was a man's world (and often still is), but Joel is supportive of Midge's career. He was taking care of the kids. As the season progresses, it looks like they're setting Joel up to be the business part of Midge's management team—if he doesn't die of syphilis first—while I guess Susie deals with finding the gigs.

 

 

9 hours ago, hincandenza said:

It was 1959, it's not that unusual that a club would try to stiff an act on some hopped-up pretense- doubly so when a woman of that time didn't have any real recourse with a shady booking manager other than finding a "manly man" to use violence when persuasion and pleading don't work.

In truth, that scene led to my favorite Susie moment of the season, or one of them.  Just after Joel punches the guy and notes that a sentence starting "Maybe you should make sure your wife..." was going to end with him getting hit regardless... Susie looks at Joel with a little twinkle in her eye and says under her breath "Whole new light, pal!".  Meaning, Joel so impressed hard-bitten Rockaways native Susie, in that moment he went from laughable loser and spoiled son of privilege to "Oh, so that's why Midge would ever have married this boring schlub".

To me it was just another unsuccessful attempt to rehabilitate a character who in the first season abandoned his wife and children and thought nothing of stealing  material from other more successful comedians. Even at the beginning of this season he can not really support Midge in the beginning because he can not take having a wife as a comedian. It’s like how they turned his parents from successful business owners to complete idiots to make him look like a hero in comparison and so he could save the day. The other guy was much bigger than Joel and would not have backed down so easily.  He would have kicked Joel’s ass or called the police. It’s sort of like how all the laidies in the Catskills were ignoring all fawning over nothing special Joel, even though their were many other guys there who did not have his baggage, It is a clumsy way to rehabilitate  a character.  The only weakness in an otherwise excellent series, Your mileage might vary.

Also wanted to add that Joel pretended their apartment belonged to them when it was in his father’s name and this forced Midge to move in with his parents. Also, Penny Panda calling Midge a slut at her work got her demoted to the basement and off the makeup counter. Now that all these women are throwing themselves at Joel, I find it convenient that he only has eyes for Midge.

Edited December 8, 2018 by qtpye

[MorganSte]

I liked that Joel came to the rescue and there was no *drama* over having to be rescued from Midge.  She works with the tools she has and seems to be an authentic product of her time.

[shapeshifter]

You are absolutely correct, @qtpye, about the retooling of Joel from season one to season two. Where we seem to differ is that I am relieved and happy with Joel 2.0, whereas the inconsistency annoys you. I prefer my fictional characters to be better than the real life people.

[pivot]

Just want to reiterate that Joel is the worst and the writers trying to rehabilitate him is the one terrible part of an excellent show. Maybe another actor could make Joel something more than a loser drip who drags everyone down with him in his pity party, but this actor just doesn't have the chops for it. AMP is clearly setting up Joel as the series long love interest to the main character and that is a damn shame.

[LeeLeePanda]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:24 PM, ChlcGirl said:

As someone who lived in both Philadelphia AND Harrisburg, I squeeeeeeeed embarrassingly when I heard the itinerary.  I also yelled at the TV when Susie mentioned Harrisburg's Civil War Museum since it didn't open till the early 2000s.

Fellow former Harrisburg resident here. The Civil War Museum line took me out of the episode. 

That being said, I was amused by the Amish buggy during their stop in Lancaster. It brought back memories of working in that area and being late for work because I got stuck behind a buggy,lol. 

 

On Joel: I hated him in Season One. I wanted him to be miserable for what he did to Midge. Yet I’m really enjoying the character this season. I like his growth, and that he seems to be truly supportive of Midge’s career.

I usually hate it when shows try to rehabilitate trifling men. It’s my least favorite trope. I don’t know why it works for me on this show. Then again, I haven’t finished the season, so who knows if I’ll end up eating my words. 

[Eva Marie]

Joel's actor is drippy drip McDrip. Like a grown-up version of Jess of GG (even a look-alike). How on Earth someone that dumpy-looking & non-descript could've pulled Midge is beyond me. Really narrow middle class Jewish dating pool, eh? Someone called him a 5 before

I guess that with ASP's quirky bag of talent you have to swallow a bit of dirt. Maybe it's in her contract that she must have an ugly boring dude as a pet during projects and they brought in the Dr. to offset it?

5 is awfully generous for him. More like 1.5 in the face.

I meant that Joel is a 1.5. The Dr. is really effective. He even kept up with Rachel in his timing in his 1st scene & it was a long one.

[Eri]

If this episode showed the tests of strength between Susie's management skills and Midge's adapting to new environments this was it - probably my favorite episode.

I liked the transition of the road trip deteriorating with each stop and their constant bickering, it felt realistic and when Susie accidentally played the tape recorder of her snoring during Midge's act I was rolling (the facial expressions did it for me). Did anyone else think that the tape recorder was going to get stolen when Midge went to look for Susie backstage?

I just drove through the Holland tunnel today and thought how grateful I am that it isn't as bad as it was back then, though I did get up earlier than they had to avoid getting stuck in traffic lol. 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Eri

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, Eri said:

I just drove through the Holland tunnel today and thought how grateful I am that it isn't as bad as it was back then,

I immediately thought "the Holland Tunnel" and saw a faded memory from the back seat of a car when I was about Ethan's age at about the time of TMMM. The series has been consistently excellent at creating scenes that are historically accurate enough to both satisfy those who lived through it while not requiring that experience to get a sufficient sense of how one would be impacted by the technological, physical, and social limits of the place in that era, and then using those specific experiences to further the story.

Midge is ultimately a product of her time—as are all of the characters—and as we all are in real life. I only watched at the most a dozen episodes of The Gilmore Girls, but I don't recall that sense of every character being a product of history and society. If liberal arts continue to be studied in academic institutions, this series will be included in the syllabi of courses ranging from film studies to American history. Heck, this series could easily wind up being selected for archiving by the National Film Registry for "culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant films" (wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Film_Registry).

I guess I should stop fan-girling now. They didn't even mention the feeling of being asphyxiated in the Holland Tunnel. 

Edited December 9, 2018 by shapeshifter

[MissLucas]

I loved Rose in this: looking spectacular in that cream suit (and a great necklace), calmly handling the baby shower and then giving Midge a much needed lesson. 

As for Joel: It was clear back in season one that he's around to stay so I'm glad the show did some course-correcting here - even though it might be inconsistent.

Edited December 9, 2018 by MissLucas

[txhorns79]

Quote

I loved Rose in this: looking spectacular in that cream suit (and a great necklace), calmly handling the baby shower and then giving Midge a much needed lesson. 

I kind of loved all that.  Rose taking over, and sticking Midge with the clean up.  That was totally deserved. 

Quote

As the season progresses, it looks like they're setting Joel up to be the business part of Midge's management team—if he doesn't die of syphilis first—while I guess Susie deals with finding the gigs.

I hope not.  I mean, it doesn't seem like Susie is overwhelmed by the business side.  Her judgment isn't always the best, but I don't see much reason for Joel to be involved in any of this, except as a spectator. 

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

Quote

As the season progresses, it looks like they're setting Joel up to be the business part of Midge's management team—if he doesn't die of syphilis first—while I guess Susie deals with finding the gigs.

I hope not.  I mean, it doesn't seem like Susie is overwhelmed by the business side.  Her judgment isn't always the best, but I don't see much reason for Joel to be involved in any of this, except as a spectator. 

I was thinking Joel would be better at organizing lodging and transportation and collecting their fees, based on what we saw this episode WRT Susie's handling of those details and the last few episodes WRT Joel's managing his father's business. It just seemed like a setup to me, but they might not go there.
 

[qtpye]

On 12/8/2018 at 10:03 PM, Eva Marie said:

Joel's actor is drippy drip McDrip. Like a grown-up version of Jess of GG (even a look-alike). How on Earth someone that dumpy-looking & non-descript could've pulled Midge is beyond me. Really narrow middle class Jewish dating pool, eh? Someone called him a 5 before

I guess that with ASP's quirky bag of talent you have to swallow a bit of dirt. Maybe it's in her contract that she must have an ugly boring dude as a pet during projects and they brought in the Dr. to offset it?

5 is awfully generous for him. More like 1.5 in the face.

I meant that Joel is a 1.5. The Dr. is really effective. He even kept up with Rachel in his timing in his 1st scene & it was a long one.

No, Joel is so awesome that all the women line up for him, just begging for his attention. Luckily he only has eyes for Midge now that fucking Penny Panda is out of his system. Joel also easily beats up and intimidates men twice his size with his whiny voice and Pee Wee Herman physique. He is definitely the Prince Charming we all dream of.

[millennium]

The Marvelous Mrs. "Meh"-sel.   A very weak episode.

Midge looked like an old Playtex catalog illustration in that storeroom.

Edited December 16, 2018 by millennium

[whiporee]

While I don’t know the morays of the late 1950s, it doesn’t seem unreasonable that Joel would be desirable. In the minds of the time, he’s successful in an attractive industry and he’s single.  He’d be considered quite a catch if you were looking to catch someone, which a lot of unmarried women in their mid to late 20s/early 30s apparently were. My guess is a lot of those girls were runway models, who had gotten sort of used to that unfortunate trade off.  I think it was overkill, but it didn’t feel overly unrealistic to me.  

Edited December 17, 2018 by whiporee

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

Midge looked like an old Playtex catalog illustration in that storeroom.

Good one!  I haven't thought of Playtex in so many years. 

[millennium]

Why was it necessary to force the audience to listen to Abe recount -- in such detail -- a Twilight Zone episode known to everyone?   I realize the show is happily chipping away at his superiority complex but surely there must have been a better way to undermine the boorish manner in which he commands attention.

Edited December 17, 2018 by millennium

[shapeshifter]

On 12/8/2018 at 12:28 AM, shapeshifter said:

[Susie] You may be a damsel in distress, but I'm not.

[Midge] No, you're a damsel in di-closet.

I just noticed the gender-identity double entendre of Susie being "in the closet" and how well that follows the "damsel" line.

[tennisgurl]

I can understand how Joel got to be where he is now, as a better, more supportive father and ex husband, or at least trying to. He felt miserable and stifled in his life with Midge, and left her and blew up their lives due to some kind of early mid life crisis, brought upon by his constant desire to be successful (including stealing from other comics, and lying about their apartment) and his insecurity about not being good enough. Then, he realized he made a terrible mistake and screwed his life up, and now he is trying to make up for it, even knowing he cant really do that. I dont want them back together, and I haven't forgiven him for how much he screwed Midge over, but I am kind of liking the idea of him and Midge being in a good place, even as a not couple. 

The whole road trip was great, and I loved seeing all the nitty gritty of being an up and coming comic. It was filled with annoying and gross details, like nasty beds, getting stuck in traffic, low turn out, and gigs getting cancelled due to rain. Midge and Susie and their banter is really the heart of the show, so I was happy to get an episode that was almost all them. Susie and the snoring is an easy joke, but I loved it. And it got even better when she accidentally played it during the show!

"Its your mess to clean up." Oh snap, Rose with the burn! Yeah, that was well deserved. And Rose looked fabulous!

Honestly, when I talk about my favorite Twilight Zone episodes, I probably sound a lot like Abe. Hopefully Rod teaches Abe some important lessons about respecting his fellow man/women! 

Edited December 18, 2018 by tennisgurl

[grayson]

qtpye writes:

Quote

"No, Joel is so awesome that all the women line up for him, just begging for his attention. Luckily he only has eyes for Midge now that fucking Penny Panda is out of his system. Joel also easily beats up and intimidates men twice his size with his whiny voice and Pee Wee Herman physique. He is definitely the Prince Charming we all dream of.

Joel is somehow appealing to me, so his rehabilitation is welcome. He projects a sort of wiry athleticism. I am baffled by my own reaction to the Joel character, because small men are repulsive to me in my actual life.

[AuntieMame]

I tend to like slender, slight men but Joel doesn’t work for me because of his personality and his actions. Leaving Midge for Penny Panda was just low. I do like that he’s been rehabilitated as a father though because the kids are going to need a parent who is present and reasonably stable and Joel seems to be stepping into that role. 

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Saw this headline and couldn't help share it here ... https://wtop.com/national/2018/12/police-argument-over-snoring-leads-to-stabbing-at-motel/

PS Oddly, I am absolutely on board with the S2 rehab of Joel ... Yes, total dick move in S1 but back in the day when divorce was really a last option/resort (especially among nice Jewish couples), at the very least we are now seeing a side of Joel that makes (some of) us understand what Midge saw in him to start with (yeah, I'm speaking for myself). 

If they go the reconciliation (at least a try at it) at the end of S2, I would be willing to give it a wait and see how it works out. 

PPS Re: Abe telling the plotline of "Time Enough At Last," T-Zone had JUST premiered less than two months earlier ... it's only the 8th episode of the show ... and probably was not a huge hit yet. So while those of us who grew up on the series (and all of its offshoots) know that it's a oft-viewed classic, I'm sure it was still an unknown entity to many people. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Saw this headline and couldn't help share it here ... https://wtop.com/national/2018/12/police-argument-over-snoring-leads-to-stabbing-at-motel/

PS Oddly, I am absolutely on board with the S2 rehab of Joel ... Yes, total dick move in S1 but back in the day when divorce was really a last option/resort (especially among nice Jewish couples), at the very least we are now seeing a side of Joel that makes (some of) us understand what Midge saw in him to start with (yeah, I'm speaking for myself). 

If they go the reconciliation (at least a try at it) at the end of S2, I would be willing to give it a wait and see how it works out. 

PPS Re: Abe telling the plotline of "Time Enough At Last," T-Zone had JUST premiered less than two months earlier ... it's only the 8th episode of the show ... and probably was not a huge hit yet. So while those of us who grew up on the series (and all of its offshoots) know that it's a oft-viewed classic, I'm sure it was still an unknown entity to many people. 

That is interesting that Abe would have been an early adapter to the Twilight Zone.  I wouldn't have pegged him as much of a TV viewer at all. 

[Clanstarling]

On 12/8/2018 at 6:29 AM, qtpye said:

 

To me it was just another unsuccessful attempt to rehabilitate a character who in the first season abandoned his wife and children and thought nothing of stealing  material from other more successful comedians. Even at the beginning of this season he can not really support Midge in the beginning because he can not take having a wife as a comedian. It’s like how they turned his parents from successful business owners to complete idiots to make him look like a hero in comparison and so he could save the day. The other guy was much bigger than Joel and would not have backed down so easily.  He would have kicked Joel’s ass or called the police. It’s sort of like how all the laidies in the Catskills were ignoring all fawning over nothing special Joel, even though their were many other guys there who did not have his baggage, It is a clumsy way to rehabilitate  a character.  The only weakness in an otherwise excellent series, Your mileage might vary.

Also wanted to add that Joel pretended their apartment belonged to them when it was in his father’s name and this forced Midge to move in with his parents. Also, Penny Panda calling Midge a slut at her work got her demoted to the basement and off the makeup counter. Now that all these women are throwing themselves at Joel, I find it convenient that he only has eyes for Midge.

 

In my (limited) experience, big guys who bully women often back down when faced with physical confrontation with a man.

It wasn't my favorite scene, and I go back and forth on the effectiveness of Joel's growth (due to some of the points you make), but I still like their evolving relationship. And it's a nit pick, but Joel's reason wasn't that he didn't want a comedian wife, as he has been supportive of her talent even when she wasn't aware of it, but that he couldn't take being the fodder for her jokes. Which I think is both fair, and shows some self-awareness.

On 12/8/2018 at 9:16 PM, Eri said:

I liked the transition of the road trip deteriorating with each stop and their constant bickering, it felt realistic and when Susie accidentally played the tape recorder of her snoring during Midge's act I was rolling (the facial expressions did it for me). Did anyone else think that the tape recorder was going to get stolen when Midge went to look for Susie backstage?

 

I thought the recorder was a goner too.

On 12/16/2018 at 12:04 AM, millennium said:

Midge looked like an old Playtex catalog illustration in that storeroom.

 

Yep, she was girdled up in the height of fashion for her day. I'm thankful I came of (stocking) age at the cusp of the predominance of pantyhose - so I only wore real "stockings" for a short time (with no girdle, cause I was a kid), and have now forgone pantyhose as well, because they are their own form of hell.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Clanstarling

[ShadowFacts]

On 12/22/2018 at 12:41 PM, Clanstarling said:

Yep, she was girdled up in the height of fashion for her day. I'm thankful I came of (stocking) age at the cusp of the predominance of pantyhose - so I only wore real "stockings" for a short time (with no girdle, cause I was a kid), and have now forgone pantyhose as well, because they are their own form of hell.

Oh, and let us not forget garter belts.  Nylons, pantyhose, atrocities all. 

[AuntieMame]

ClanStarling

it has been my experience that bullies of women often turn tail when confronted with another man too. I guess a variation on the all bullies are cowards at heart trope. 

Regarding the rehabilitation of Joel. Hmmm. Beyond his actions and the absolute ridiculousness of Penny Panda, I think Joel looked bad because the contrast between Joel and Midge was so enormous as to be unfathomable, as if a tigress married a greyhound. 

The parts of the rehabilitation that are working for me are character based rather than the obvious plots of making him irresistible to the ladies in the Catskills. The fact that he does seem to deeply and genuinely love Midge, that he is stepping up in terms of his children, that he is self aware. These things make me think that if he could take the support role and if Midge could stop using him as fodder for her routine that they could have a chance in theory. 

But the male partner supporting the talented female partner? That is a huge ask in our society. Which is really too bad. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by AuntieMame

[Clanstarling]

52 minutes ago, AuntieMame said:

ClanStarling

it has been my experience that bullies of women often turn tail when confronted with another man too. I guess a variation on the all bullies are cowards at heart trope. 

Regarding the rehabilitation of Joel. Hmmm. Beyond his actions and the absolute ridiculousness of Penny Panda, I think Joel looked bad because the contrast between Joel and Midge was so enormous as to be unfathomable, as if a tigress married a greyhound. 

The parts of the rehabilitation that are working for me are character based rather than the obvious plots of making him irresistible to the ladies in the Catskills. The fact that he does seem to deeply and genuinely love Midge, that he is stepping up in terms of his children, that he is self aware. These things make me think that if he could take the support role and if Midge could stop using him as fodder for her routine that they could have a chance in theory. 

But the male partner supporting the talented female partner? That is a huge ask in our society. Which is really too bad. 

I also had the experience of making a bully (twice my size) turn tail and run when I charged him - we were still kids, but he was a couple of years older and I was tiny (but fierce). Still, it's not something I would do as a grown woman - who is still tiny and understands that I'm not a terrier anymore.

Yes, the character bits are working for me too, and the women being drawn to him like a moth to a flame not so much. But they did lay that ground work in the first season when Joel and Midge met (didn't work for me then either).

[AuntieMame]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I also had the experience of making a bully (twice my size) turn tail and run when I charged him - we were still kids, but he was a couple of years older and I was tiny (but fierce). Still, it's not something I would do as a grown woman - who is still tiny and understands that I'm not a terrier anymore.

Yes, the character bits are working for me too, and the women being drawn to him like a moth to a flame not so much. But they did lay that ground work in the first season when Joel and Midge met (didn't work for me then either).

I’m more aware than ever of my size too. Like you, I too could be fierce until it was forcibly brought to my notice that terriers can be routed if overmatched. Lol. 

I wonder what is going to happen with Joel and Midge. Like another poster said, perhaps they should put that divorce on ice. When Midge wanted to be with someone who loved her, she went to Joel when the chips were down. It would be interesting to see people actually work things out successfully but not easily. Maybe this isn’t the right show for that. 

[grayson]

Auntie Mame notes:

Quote

it has been my experience that bullies of women often turn tail when confronted with another man too. I guess a variation on the all bullies are cowards at heart trope. 

Auntie Mame  makes a key point that bullies of women (bold added) are often intimidated when another man confronts them. 

qtpye writes:

Quote

 Joel also easily beats up and intimidates men twice his size with his whiny voice and Pee Wee Herman physique. He is definitely the Prince Charming we all dream of.

With all due respect, the night club manager who refused to pay Midge was not twice as large as Joel-they looked approximately equal in size. In episode 10, Joel wears a sleeveless tank style undershirt and looks impressively athletic and fit with strong shoulders, substantial pectorals, and muscular arms--definitely not a "Pee Wee Herman physique". 

Edited December 29, 2018 by grayson

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

I think Joel looked bad because the contrast between Joel and Midge was so enormous as to be unfathomable, as if a tigress married a greyhound. 

More like a Tigress and a Terrier from where I sit, heh.

7 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

But the male partner supporting the talented female partner? That is a huge ask in our society

Eh, Sonny and Cher got together just a few years after that. 
And Cher made Sonny the butt of most of her jokes.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

More like a Tigress and a Terrier from where I sit, heh.

Eh, Sonny and Cher got together just a few years after that. 
And Cher made Sonny the butt of most of her jokes.

True, 5 years later - but Sonny was the Svengali in the couple, and was 10 years older than her - 28 to her 18, I believe. And while he was the butt of her jokes on their show, I remember watching in real time how those jokes started hitting their mark more and more - and they got divorced pretty soon after that. So for me, they don't really compare.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Dminches]

I found this episode to be the worst of season 2 so far.  I like Susie but after a while her quips are not funny and forced.  

Is Joel in or out?  He is the one who ultimately ended the marriage by saying he couldn't live with Midge's on stage career but he can't keep himself away from her.  I really don't understand what the writers are trying to do here.

Too many of the scenes had long-winded monologues.  I like Abe but he talks WAY too much.  I like how Rose is mostly short and to the the point.

I hope the remaining episodes are good ones.  Call me nervous.

[Baltimore Betty]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 5:03 PM, ShadowFacts said:

Oh, and let us not forget garter belts.  Nylons, pantyhose, atrocities all. 

I remember as a child in a sex ed class in 6th grade ('69 or '70) and all us girls were issued sanitary napkins and belts. The look on our very young faces must have been hysterical.  So add that in to the girdle, nylons, long line bras...took forever to get dressed or undressed. 

Side note, when I showed my mother what I had been given at school she nearly fell over laughing because (although they were big and bulky) we were in the age of Stayfree pads that adhered to your underwear.

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 3:04 AM, millennium said:

The Marvelous Mrs. "Meh"-sel.   A very weak episode.

Midge looked like an old Playtex catalog illustration in that storeroom.

As thin as she is Midge was covered in lycra like a properly raised woman.  I can only imagine the elastic marks I'd have with all those straps and seams, lol.

[AuntieMame]

My mother, born in 1946 told me that girdles were de riguer even for very young women after I commented that she didn't need a girdle when she was a teenager. It seems you were considered a sloven without a girdle whether you needed one of not. 

Personally I would prefer stockings and a garter belt to pantyhose as long as the weather was reasonable, the garter had no relation to a girdle and the stockings stayed up. I once bought a pair of silk stockings at an estate sale and they were so luxurious, but sadly no longer made. For the most part though, women must have been often uncomfortable. 

i wonder how the bills for Midge's and Rose's clothes are being paid as neither strikes me as a sale rack shopper. Clothes were proportionally more expensive in earlier eras before the introduction of fast fashion. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by AuntieMame
Auto Correct Insanity - As Usual

[Clanstarling]

13 minutes ago, AuntieMame said:

My mother, born in 1946 told me that girdles were de riguer even for very young women after I commented that she didn't need a girdle when she was a teenager. It seems you were considered a sloven without a girdle whether you needed one of not. 

Personally I would prefer stockings and a garter belt to pantyhose as long as the weather was reasonable, the garter had no relation to a girdle and the stockings stayed up. I once bought a pair of silk stockings at an estate sale and they were so luxurious, but sadly no longer made. For the most part though, women must have been often uncomfortable. 

i wonder how the bills for Midge's and Rose's clothes are being paid as neither strikes me as a sale rack shopper. Clothes were proportionally more expensive in earlier eras before the introduction of fast fashion. 

I came from poor, European stock, so while my mother did wear a girdle for going out, it was Maidenform bras and regular panties most of the time. I used garter belts for a very short period of time - but I am very short and had to fasten in the stocking part rather than the thick border. So they never worked well for me.

Seems to me, Spanx are the current version. I've seen some full body versions of those. Though I expect they don't leave quite as many pressure marks. (or maybe just one big one - I have no experience)

[AuntieMame]

17 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I came from poor, European stock, so while my mother did wear a girdle for going out, it was Maidenform bras and regular panties most of the time. I used garter belts for a very short period of time - but I am very short and had to fasten in the stocking part rather than the thick border. So they never worked well for me.

Seems to me, Spanx are the current version. I've seen some full body versions of those. Though I expect they don't leave quite as many pressure marks. (or maybe just one big one - I have no experience)

I tried Spanx once about ten years ago. Never again. They really are tight...And I sized up knowing that I hate tig ht. Spanx are of the devil. Every once in a while you find a nice piece of lingerie that has a little bit of flattering support that isn't horrible to wear for say a special occasion but it's a rare find. 

I think that Rachel Brosnahan is wearing the proper underpinnings with her costumes. I wonder how they're sourcing the underwear. Because lingerie and corsetry is an entire sub-specialty in design, pattern cutting and construction. I'm a geek about the costumes and sets. 

speaking of, how much did we love that gorgeous, down at heel Georgian apartment with the Louis details? Imagine living there. Abe is a fool. He could take that sabbatical and work on getting a guest lecturer spot in one of the universities and probably eke it 18 to 24 months with everyone paying him to live in Paris. Instead he's off on some quixotic quest against Bell Labs? I guess we have to keep Abe on the show, but boy it sounds nice. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by AuntieMame
Typos

[NYCFree]

During Midge’s act in this one I kept thinking that she was leaking Abe’s secret Bell Labs info. It was making me nervous.

I loved through a bed bug infestation five years ago and Suzy’s cheek made me have flashbacks.

All in all, a lot of agita with this episode.

[ShadowFacts]

16 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

I think that Rachel Brosnahan is wearing the proper underpinnings with her costumes. I wonder how they're sourcing the underwear. Because lingerie and corsetry is an entire sub-specialty in design, pattern cutting and construction. I'm a geek about the costumes and sets. 

She must be a hundred pounds soaking wet.  Judging from the swimsuit scene lakeside, she doesn't have an ounce of flab.  I mean really, what would jiggle or not be smooth on her in the first place?  Not much apparently, I found this interview where she says she only has to have her waist made longer to fit the 50s look. 

So I’m in a corset. It’s not a period corset, thank goodness. It’s not one of those stick your foot in someone’s back and pull as tight as you can corsets. Its purpose is only to change the placement of my waist. Because per our brilliant Donna, in the 1950s it was very fashionable to have a very long waist, the longer the better. And so a lot of the costumes and designs are done that way. My waist is more of a 1940s shape, it’s kind of right in the middle of my body, and so the corset just punches my waist down a little bit lower. But it is tight. And I’m in stockings and petticoats and heels and things.

[dleighg]

On 12/26/2018 at 12:31 PM, Baltimore Betty said:

Side note, when I showed my mother what I had been given at school she nearly fell over laughing because (although they were big and bulky) we were in the age of Stayfree pads that adhered to your underwear.

You must be just about my age. Same experience! No one was using those belted things any more!

[dleighg]

On 12/27/2018 at 11:22 AM, ShadowFacts said:

Judging from the swimsuit scene lakeside, she doesn't have an ounce of flab.

No.Kidding. So jealous.

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, dleighg said:

You must be just about my age. Same experience! No one was using those belted things any more!

Be thankful. Be very, very thankful.

[camom]

I'm just catching up on season 2 and I find myself liking Joel more and Midge less.  Joel realizes the mistakes he made and takes full responsibility.  Although his initial reaction to Midge doing comedy (his dream) was bad, he has turned into her biggest supporter.  He seems to want to make things right.  Midge, on the other hand, is a selfish person who doesn't seem to be responsible at all.  She apparently rarely sees her kids and automatically expects others to watch them.  And forgetting about the shower she was throwing for her best friend would be a deal breaker for me if I was Imogene.  Glad her mom left the mess for her to clean up.

[rejnel]

Quote

If liberal arts continue to be studied in academic institutions, this series will be included in the syllabi of courses ranging from film studies to American history. 

Good lord, I hope not! I enjoy the show, but the anachronisms come thick and fast.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I usually hate it when shows try to rehabilitate trifling men. It’s my least favorite trope. I don’t know why it works for me on this show. 

I for one like Joel. Sure he did a really dumb thing, but he has regretted it and tried to make it right ever since. It's not as if he ran away and never saw his kids again, he has made every effort to be in their lives and do right by them and Midge too. I can understand why he'd find it hard to be with Midge while she's on stage bashing him every night. You can't blame a guy for having an ego. Still doesn't stop him from doing right by his kids and showing up for Midge when she needs him like he did in this episode.

Quote

 How on Earth someone that dumpy-looking & non-descript could've pulled Midge is beyond me. 

Really? Dumpy looking? Maybe he's no Cary Grant but he's a nice looking guy. And his family owns a business that manufacture's women's wear? Yeah - he's a catch. For the record, Midge isn't exactly Miss Universe either. Both are cute enough, let's leave it at that.

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

On 12/8/2018 at 4:12 PM, LeeLeePanda said:

I usually hate it when shows try to rehabilitate trifling men. It’s my least favorite trope. I don’t know why it works for me on this show. Then again, I haven’t finished the season, so who knows if I’ll end up eating my words.

I for one like Joel. Sure he did a really dumb thing, but he has regretted it and tried to make it right ever since. It's not as if he ran away and never saw his kids again, he has made every effort to be in their lives and do right by them and Midge too.

My objection to the rehabilitation of Joel is that I've never seen it happen in real life, and I've been around the block too many times to count. 
On the other hand, like @LeeLeePanda and @iMonrey, I am at least willing to give fictional Joel a second chance, the way he's been written. 
Still, it won't shock me if he falls from grace again.