S04.E05: Savages

[nodorothyparker]

They were building the big house at the end of this book.  But considering that this "cabin" appears to have a second floor complete with windows, who knows what they're going to do on the show.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 minute ago, nodorothyparker said:

They were building the big house at the end of this book.  But considering that this "cabin" appears to have a second floor complete with windows, who knows what they're going to do on the show.

I think that they just gave the cabin the Hollywood effect.  Prettied it up for TV...

[CountryGirl]

I'm hoping that's the last we see of the silversmith's wife and her offers of "pie."

I love Jamie's little grin and his response though.

I enjoyed seeing Claire doing the day to day tasks that meant, well, their very survival, and the monotony and necessity of it all.

Claire, that was a well-deserved dram.

I loved how she saluted Rollo with the glass before taking a big swallow.

When an excited Jamie returns home to Claire (and I'm saving the reason why for last) and instantly knows something's gone horribly wrong.

I loved the quick shots of Bree (Sophie looked beautiful) at Craig Na Dun and seeing her place her hands against the rock and the camera swiveling to reveal...nothing.

But the best part of the episode and dare I say, the entire season was hearing that beloved voice even before he turned around (I may have shrieked MURTAGH! loud enough to wake all three of my cats):

To have son and (god) father reunited again is just everything and I couldn't care less that it's not book canon. Much like with GOT, some plotlines are best meddled with.

Also, hello, silver fox!

Look at Jamie, trying not to cry.

And Murtagh, not giving a damn if he does.

Murtagh's joy when Jamie reveals he's been reunited with Claire. Awww...

His reunion with Claire, whistling "Boogie-Woogie Bugle Boy..." and her dropping her firewood. I just loved it and it's yet another reminder that Murtagh is in the know.

This season got off to a bit of a slow start but it's definitely cooking with fire now.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I'm hoping that's the last we see of the silversmith's wife and her offers of "pie."

I love Jamie's little grin and his response though.

I enjoyed seeing Claire doing the day to day tasks that meant, well, their very survival, and the monotony and necessity of it all.

Claire, that was a well-deserved dram.

I loved how she saluted Rollo with the glass before taking a big swallow.

When an excited Jamie returns home to Claire (and I'm saving the reason why for last) and instantly knows something's gone horribly wrong.

I loved the quick shots of Bree (Sophie looked beautiful) at Craig Na Dun and seeing her place her hands against the rock and the camera swiveling to reveal...nothing.

But the best part of the episode and dare I say, the entire season was hearing that beloved voice even before he turned around (I may have shrieked MURTAGH! loud enough to wake all three of my cats):

To have son and (god) father reunited again is just everything and I couldn't care less that it's not book canon. Much like with GOT, some plotlines are best meddled with.

Also, hello, silver fox!

Look at Jamie, trying not to cry.

And Murtagh, not giving a damn if he does.

Murtagh's joy when Jamie reveals he's been reunited with Claire. Awww...

His reunion with Claire, whistling "Boogie-Woogie Bugle Boy..." and her dropping her firewood. I just loved it and it's yet another reminder that Murtagh is in the know.

This season got off to a bit of a slow start but it's definitely cooking with fire now.

If I could, I'd like this a gazillion million times!!!!!

[iMonrey]

The stagey way they revealed the blacksmith's face told me it was supposed to be someone I knew but I honestly didn't recognize him so I figured it must be someone I'd forgotten about. Can someone refresh my memory - where exactly did we leave off with Murtagh the last time we saw him? Was it when Jamie was imprisoned - were they together at Ardsmuir (or however that's spelled)?

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Can someone refresh my memory - where exactly did we leave off with Murtagh the last time we saw him? Was it when Jamie was imprisoned - were they together at Ardsmuir (or however that's spelled)?

The last time we saw them together was in "All Debts Paid" where Murtagh and others were being sent to the Colonies and Jamie was being sent to Helwater.

Yes, they were at Ardsmuir together.

Edited December 3, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[nodorothyparker]

They were all lined up to be marched out for transport when Jamie was suddenly pulled out of line.  The last time Murtagh saw Jamie he was chained up and being marched away in a different direction behind Lord John's horse.  So he's almost certainly had no idea all these years what happened to Jamie or if he was even still alive.  It was a recurring fear in the books that the British might at any time decide to execute a convicted traitor, which Jamie was. 

[Cdh20]

31 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

If I could, I'd like this a gazillion million times!!!!!

Yes, this to countrygirl….the best post ever!

[toolazy]

The cabin bugs, but it's consistent with the set designer's tendency to make everything fancier than it really should be. Lallybroch was a farmhouse, not a mansion.  The interior of Jocasta's house looked nothing like plantation houses of its time.  And so the cabin is way nicer - and much better equipped - than is reasonable given the resources and time available.  

 

And thank you to whoever wondered why Murtagh never wrote to Jenny.  That's a huge WTF for me that I hope is explained at some point. 

[LadyBrochTuarach]

20 minutes ago, toolazy said:

The cabin bugs, but it's consistent with the set designer's tendency to make everything fancier than it really should be. Lallybroch was a farmhouse, not a mansion.  The interior of Jocasta's house looked nothing like plantation houses of its time.  And so the cabin is way nicer - and much better equipped - than is reasonable given the resources and time available.  

 

And thank you to whoever wondered why Murtagh never wrote to Jenny.  That's a huge WTF for me that I hope is explained at some point. 

I agree with these points. I didn’t mind Lallybroch, it did seem a tad overdone but I didn’t think too much about it. 

Riverun however was SO much more than I imagined in the books. The outside worked for me, but the interior was on par with the high class/wealthy Parisian society homes. Maybe they played it out that was to emphasize the vast wealth that she has? In the book we find out especially why later 

Spoiler

The Jacobit gold they brought with them from Scotland that they dig into time and again

But I still felt it was a bit much for what would have been more reasonable. 

 

And for Jamie and Claire’s cabin, someone else mentioned it too; about how they acquired so much stuff!! I understand that some time has passed, but it doesn’t seem like they had that many funds to outfit themselves with so much. I know Jocasta sent them the mattress and some supplies in the Buik but I would have expected a year or more to go by of them living in the Cabin to acquire that much. 

 

I missed the comment someone made of Murtagh not writing to Jenny. But excellent point made. I’m intrigued now and I hope they’ve come up with an answer for this. Why wouldn’t he? Unless he is afraid to hear the truth of Jamie’s death and he would have believed him dead all these years? I find it odd. I’m sure mail went missing back then, but it always seemed that Claire and Jamie had no trouble with letters and packages going back and forth to Scotland from America, so I don’t know. 

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

They were building the big house at the end of this book.  But considering that this "cabin" appears to have a second floor complete with windows, who knows what they're going to do on the show.

I missed the second floor, I recall the buik cabin only being one, and it had a store room/pantry as well. Their bed was by the door, though. think I need to rewatch the episode to get a scope of the cabin again. 

[LadyBrochTuarach]

On 2018-12-02 at 7:09 AM, morgan said:

Claire’s fear was well done!!!

I’m curious as to what propels Roger through the stones after getting Bree’s letter.  That didn’t happen in the book did it?  And I am anxious and nervous to see his adventures back in time and how that is portrayed.  

YAS! I finally feel like Cait has her mojo back in this episode. I was having trouble seeing her connect with Claire so far this season, but I really felt it this episode and her emotions and fear were portrayed beautifully. I was really please with the writing of this ep, aside from the silversmiths tarty wife. 

 

I don’t recall if he received that same letter. But in the buik they are on good terms, she’s graduated and is coming to Scotland or England. She’s sent a box of belongings and there is a letter inside (pretty sure), asking Roger to hang on to the stuff for her until she gets there. He sees that it’s all valuable things, Claire’s set of China I think, and a couple of family heirlooms. So he calls Joe, and asks if Bree is with him. Joe thinks Bree is with Roger. And in turn Roger asks if he’s familiar with the name “James Fraser” and he thinks Bree went to find Claire. Pretty sure Joe’s response was “Oh shit.” But I would have to confirm it 🤓 

And Roger enlists Fiona’s help to get himself through the stones and to Bree. 

 

14 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Anyone care to speculate as to why the slutty silversmith's wife was added to the story?  And why Jamie has been carrying around one of their candlesticks?  

I assumed that he was looking for a silversmith who can take a chunk of silver off of one of the candlesticks and make a replacement wedding ring for Claire (since that low-down, dirty varmint Stephen Bonnet stole hers in the first episode.)  But as for why they decided to make the silversmith's wife have a roving eye and a taste for ginger . . . well I have no idea what is behind that.  

I believe my response to seeing her the first time was “great, another leghair wanting to bed Jamie.” 

And my response the second time was “For F’s sake!” 

 

I felt it odd, it’s fine he was looking for the silversmith and that he wasn’t home both times, but she didn’t need to be such a slut about it. Girl Lizzie, we all know what you’re after. The rest of us want Jamie too. Just minus his bangs. 

[nodorothyparker]

1 hour ago, LadyBrochTuarach said:

I missed the comment someone made of Murtagh not writing to Jenny. But excellent point made. I’m intrigued now and I hope they’ve come up with an answer for this. Why wouldn’t he? Unless he is afraid to hear the truth of Jamie’s death and he would have believed him dead all these years? I find it odd. I’m sure mail went missing back then, but it always seemed that Claire and Jamie had no trouble with letters and packages going back and forth to Scotland from America, so I don’t know. 

Jamie and Claire were free people who had other people willing to carry letters and packages back and forth between the ridge and the nearest point where mail might be collected.  They also presumably had money to compensate for any postage since all mail at the time was postage due.  Murtagh was an indentured servant.  His master for the first 12 years, who he describes as a difficult man prone to "violent outbursts," would have only been obligated to provide clothing, food, and a place to sleep.  He wouldn't have been legally required to pay an indentured servant anything or allow him the freedom of movement to post a letter or even pen and paper to write one until after the terms of the indenture were fulfilled.  So it's entirely possible Murtagh may have lacked the opportunity until many years later.

We speculated about this in the book vs. show thread too and my thought there was that after the trauma of being ripped away from everything, he may have not even wanted to know.  He was reading as pretty cut off in those scenes, and his first comment on seeing Jamie is simply "Thank the Lord" as if he had presumed him dead.  Can you imagine if he had written Jenny after some time only to get a response back that yeah, Jamie was executed right around the time you were sent away and everyone else you know is gone too and the Highlands are pretty much in ruin?  At this point in history, the British had pretty forcibly emptied much of the Highlands and there was a steady stream of Scots emigrating to the Colonies and Canada.  So he already would have heard it was bad.  That might have been enough for him when he couldn't do anything about it anyway.

[Ziggy]

30 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Jamie and Claire were free people who had other people willing to carry letters and packages back and forth between the ridge and the nearest point where mail might be collected.  They also presumably had money to compensate for any postage since all mail at the time was postage due.  Murtagh was an indentured servant.  His master for the first 12 years, who he describes as a difficult man prone to "violent outbursts," would have only been obligated to provide clothing, food, and a place to sleep.  He wouldn't have been legally required to pay an indentured servant anything or allow him the freedom of movement to post a letter or even pen and paper to write one until after the terms of the indenture were fulfilled.  So it's entirely possible Murtagh may have lacked the opportunity until many years later.

I was thinking this, too.  Jamie had to be very careful (about what he said) in his letters to Jenny.  He sent many letters through the Gypsies.  But, as you mentioned, Jamie also got paid.  Huge difference.

[nodorothyparker]

True that Jamie was corresponding with Jenny while he was at Helwater.  Voyager is pretty vague on the exact specifics beyond that he had arrangements with people to carry the letters, but his indenture was also comparatively not nearly as harsh as many you read about in the various colonies of the time where it was not at all unheard of for those indentured to not survive their terms of service.  He was also getting certain perks like a limited amount of freedom of movement and seeing at least a little money for it.

[taanja]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The stagey way they revealed the blacksmith's face told me it was supposed to be someone I knew but I honestly didn't recognize him so I figured it must be someone I'd forgotten about. Can someone refresh my memory - where exactly did we leave off with Murtagh the last time we saw him? Was it when Jamie was imprisoned - were they together at Ardsmuir (or however that's spelled)?

I was doing the same thing-- who the eff is that supposed to be? I asked the TV

[Tif]

17 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Anyone care to speculate as to why the slutty silversmith's wife was added to the story?  And why Jamie has been carrying around one of their candlesticks?  

I assumed that he was looking for a silversmith who can take a chunk of silver off of one of the candlesticks and make a replacement wedding ring for Claire (since that low-down, dirty varmint Stephen Bonnet stole hers in the first episode.)  But as for why they decided to make the silversmith's wife have a roving eye and a taste for ginger . . . well I have no idea what is behind that.  

At first I was thinking Malva.

[toolazy]

I had no idea that this was the episode that Murtagh returns but I knew as soon as I realized that the blacksmith was important who it would turn out to be.  I might have squealed several times.  

[FnkyChkn34]

Jamie couldn't freely send mail as an indentured servant. That's the blackmail that what's-her-face held over him to make him take her to bed! 

So if Jamie had trouble mailing and receiving letters from England to Scotland with the help of Lord John and a nice family her worked for, of course Murtagh would have great difficulty sending mail from the Americas with an uncooperative master. I haven't done the timing on it, but if he was indentured for 12 years, he was probably only recently released. Maybe he did send a letter to Jenny, but it's after Ian was kidnapped?

[Future Cat Lady]

On 02/12/2018 at 1:04 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And it appears the scene of her shakily touching the stone was cut out in the actual episode.😒😒

I think that might be Fiona. The hair looks dark and curly. She probably goes with Roger when he decides to go back in time. 

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

22 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I think that might be Fiona. The hair looks dark and curly. She probably goes with Roger when he decides to go back in time. 

I think so too. Also, the dark hair is down and Bree's is up when she goes. The clothes look "modern" too. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I can’t imagine why they would deviate from the buik and have Fiona go back in time. She’s just not that important of a character.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

8 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I can’t imagine why they would deviate from the buik and have Fiona go back in time. She’s just not that important of a character.

No, I think she just goes with Roger and watches him go through the stones. After he leaves, she probably touches the stone in wonder or something, not that she goes too. That's how I imagine it anyway.

[Atlanta]

She does help him in the book. She does her 'caller of the stones' thing and gives him her engagement ring (it's insured so no biggie). They think that gemstones help with going through.

[tennisgurl]

MURTAGH is back!!!! I know that lots of other, mostly depressing, stuff happened, but thats the most important part!!!!I actually screamed when he turned around. Literally shrieked with glee like a preteen at a One Direction concert. MURTAGH!!!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

29 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 MUTAGH is back!!!! I know that lots of other, mostly depressing, stuff happened, but thats the most important part!!!!I actually screamed when he turned around. Literally shrieked with glee like a preteen at a One Direction concert. MUTAGH!!!!!

It’s Murtagh.😉

[Haleth]

I'd forgotten about that evil sow from the book. She didn't look that demonic. Lol. 

Without hearing any spoilers I knew immediately that the blacksmith was going to be Murtagh. I just had a hunch. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Haleth

[tennisgurl]

I have no time for double checking spelling @GHScorpiosRule I am way too excited! ;)

So happy to see Murtagh, as I may have mentioned, looking very silver fox and already leading a rebellion! Again! I dont blame Jaime for wanting to stay out of it (the last time he went against the British, it went very badly, and he has a family now) but we all knew that he was going to have more sympathy for the poor Scots being picked on by the rich British aristocrats than the same rich guys he rebelled against in Scotland, when he actually started meeting people. 

The whole Mueller situation was just so tragic and awful, and really well done on screen. Its so easy for cultural misunderstandings, especially when they're very different cultures, lack of knowledge, and good old fashioned prejudge, to escalate already tense situations,and when you add a tragedy to it, things escalate quickly. Poor Claire, she spends half her life just standing between people with weapons telling people to chill the fuck out. So sad what happened to the poor healer who was friends with Claire, that was just horrifying.  

Before everything went down, I actually did enjoy seeing her going about her business on the farm, it was a nice sort of "day in the life" look at life on a farm in this time period. When things arent all going to shit and people arent dying everywhere, of course. Claire asking Jamie to hold her when he got home was so sweet. And I love Young Ian, he has such great interactions with both Claire and Jaime. It was almost as great as the Claire and Jaime reunion, especially when Jaime started full on crying. And of course Murtagh recognizes Jaimie after all this years by hearing him yelling about some injustice! And his reaction to him being reunited to Claire! He was so happy, he let out a sound that sounded like the sound I made when he showed up at the forge! And the Claire and Murtagh reunion! So many warm feelings in the middle of the super sad and disturbing Mueller story. 

Claire, not everything that Native American medicine women say is metaphorical! Bree is literally here! With Roger hot on her heels!

[iMonrey]

Quote

I can’t imagine why they would deviate from the buik and have Fiona go back in time. She’s just not that important of a character.

Who is she?

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who is she?

Mrs. Graham's granddaughter. Who inherited the Reverend's house. The one who gave Roger the article that stated Jamie and Claire died in a fire.

[toolazy]

3 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Mrs. Graham's granddaughter. Who inherited the Reverend's house. The one who gave Roger the article that stated Jamie and Claire died in a fire.

She didn't inherit the house because Mrs Graham didn't own it.  I think she and her fiance bought it. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, toolazy said:

She didn't inherit the house because Mrs Graham didn't own it.  I think she and her fiance bought it. 

D'OH! Right. Sorry about that.

[Petunia846]

You guys, the Outlander writers twitter account did a Q & A earlier today and one of the questions I saw they answered was about how much time had passed between this episode and the previous one. I can't remember exactly now, and I think they deleted it, but it was either 2 or 4 months! By the time I saw it, there were a few people already commenting about how could they have built the cabin and furnished it that nicely in 4 months (I'm pretty sure it was four months), heh, so maybe they had to delete it before causing too much trouble. My eyes practically bugged out of my head when I saw it.

ETA: I was poking around more and saw other people responding to their answer to another question about how Claire had such nice veggies for the animals (their answer: she grew them in her garden) and they were saying, In a month? In a months and a half? So maybe that was the original answer to the time question, but anyway, my point is...the writers seem to have a vastly different experience with the passage of time than we do here in reality.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Petunia846

[LadyBrochTuarach]

On 2018-12-03 at 2:06 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Jamie and Claire were free people who had other people willing to carry letters and packages back and forth between the ridge and the nearest point where mail might be collected.  They also presumably had money to compensate for any postage since all mail at the time was postage due.  Murtagh was an indentured servant.  His master for the first 12 years, who he describes as a difficult man prone to "violent outbursts," would have only been obligated to provide clothing, food, and a place to sleep.  He wouldn't have been legally required to pay an indentured servant anything or allow him the freedom of movement to post a letter or even pen and paper to write one until after the terms of the indenture were fulfilled.  So it's entirely possible Murtagh may have lacked the opportunity until many years later.

We speculated about this in the book vs. show thread too and my thought there was that after the trauma of being ripped away from everything, he may have not even wanted to know.  He was reading as pretty cut off in those scenes, and his first comment on seeing Jamie is simply "Thank the Lord" as if he had presumed him dead.  Can you imagine if he had written Jenny after some time only to get a response back that yeah, Jamie was executed right around the time you were sent away and everyone else you know is gone too and the Highlands are pretty much in ruin?  At this point in history, the British had pretty forcibly emptied much of the Highlands and there was a steady stream of Scots emigrating to the Colonies and Canada.  So he already would have heard it was bad.  That might have been enough for him when he couldn't do anything about it anyway.

Thanks for clarifying all this and all of these theories are completely plausible, make sense, and I agree on all points. I didn’t think of it that way. Murtagh likely didn’t want to know the truth to spare his heart, and probably only recently acquired the ability to freely post letters etc. And so much time has passed I’m sure maybe he didn’t see a need or reason, considering the new life he’s built for himself. 

 

Ill pop over to the speculation thread later today and see what’s up 😬

 

19 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'd forgotten about that evil sow from the book. She didn't look that demonic. Lol. 

Without hearing any spoilers I knew immediately that the blacksmith was going to be Murtagh. I just had a hunch. 

Me too, as soon as he said blacksmith I was internally screaming with joy like a little girl! 

 

What does one do when a non-book reader who I watch with every Sunday starts asking questions about how the Murtagh reveal is done in the book? I left it as “it all is revealed in the books” and didn’t answer much further, but I feel like I’ll be destroying the idea of fabulous Murtagh for her if I just say that DG kills him off 😳 any ideas? 

[morgan]

My non book reader husband asks questions  from time to time and I just ask if he really wants to know, and if he says yes I give him a straight answer.  Some people have no interest in ever reading the books, they are just curious.  So why not tell?

[WatchrTina]

I've just learned that Connie Verzak, who used to do funny photo-recaps of the episodes at tvkillstime.com, is instead doing just episode commentary.  I didn't stop to read what she wrote about episodes 401 thru 405.  I always loved her photo recaps, which were clever and very funny, but if I'm looking for in-depth commentary I find enough of that here.  I'm not keen to read long blocks of text at yet another website. Still, I went looking -- hoping she'd put up a photo recap -- after I saw that Diana gave her a shout-out on Facebook. That's how I learned that she is refusing to refer to this particular episode by its title "Savages."  I think that's a mistake AND a misreading of the title.  I assumed it was chosen as the title as a means of questioning our assumptions about just WHO the "savages in the episode ARE.  Clearly Mr. Mueller thinks the native Americans are "savages" but in the end, who is it that scalps a woman -- a tribal elder and a healer?  It's Mueller who commits that atrocity.  So who really is the "savage" referred to in the episode title?

Edited December 6, 2018 by WatchrTina

[Nidratime]

Quote

That's how I learned that she is refusing to refer to this particular episode by it's title "Savages."

Which clearly means she doesn't understand it.

[Emily Thrace]

2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I've just learned that Connie Verzak, who used to do funny photo-recaps of the episodes at tvkillstime.com, is instead doing just episode commentary.  I didn't stop to read what she wrote about episodes 401 thru 405.  I always loved her photo recaps, which were clever and very funny, but if I'm looking for in-depth commentary I find enough of that here.  I'm not keen to read long blocks of text at yet another website. Still, I went looking -- hoping she'd put up a photo recap -- after I saw that Diana gave her a shout-out on Facebook. That's how I learned that she is refusing to refer to this particular episode by it's title "Savages."  I think that's a mistake AND a misreading of the title.  I assumed it was chosen as the title as a means of questioning our assumptions about just WHO the "savages in the episode ARE.  Clearly Mr. Mueller thinks the native Americans are "savages" but in the end, who is it that scalps a woman -- a tribal elder and a healer?  It's Mueller who commits that atrocity.  So who really is the "savage" referred to in the episode title?

Yeah speaking as an Aboriginal I'm actually a more offended by some of the commentary on this episode than the actual episode itself. It's so fucking patronizing, the idea that POC characters need to hit certain benchmarks and requirements to acceptable. Saying Native characters cannot be one time or short term characters is ridiculous. Saying you can't use certain words in a historical context because it's "offensive". That's the fucking point!!! It supposed to make you uncomfortable and be upset at what you're seeing. 

This episode wasn't perfect it could have used one less subplot. That doesn't mean the stories it wanted to tell was flawed.

[Pestilentia]

So no one else thought the doll was what brought the measles into the Mueller household?

[Ziggy]

More about the passage of time ...

Someone in the "No Book Talk" thread pointed out that when Claire is asked if she has any grandchildren, she says she doesn't.  But by then Marsali really should have had her baby.  Whoops!

I'm actually pretty good about letting these things go, because overall, I'm really impressed with the show.  So now a part of me wishes I hadn't read those posts (and thus destroyed my illusion), but I just can't seem to stop wanting to read more about everyone's thoughts!!!

[taanja]

15 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I've just learned that Connie Verzak, who used to do funny photo-recaps of the episodes at tvkillstime.com, is instead doing just episode commentary.  I didn't stop to read what she wrote about episodes 401 thru 405.  I always loved her photo recaps, which were clever and very funny, but if I'm looking for in-depth commentary I find enough of that here.  I'm not keen to read long blocks of text at yet another website. Still, I went looking -- hoping she'd put up a photo recap -- after I saw that Diana gave her a shout-out on Facebook. That's how I learned that she is refusing to refer to this particular episode by it's title "Savages."  I think that's a mistake AND a misreading of the title.  I assumed it was chosen as the title as a means of questioning our assumptions about just WHO the "savages in the episode ARE.  Clearly Mr. Mueller thinks the native Americans are "savages" but in the end, who is it that scalps a woman -- a tribal elder and a healer?  It's Mueller who commits that atrocity.  So who really is the "savage" referred to in the episode title?

https://www.gofugyourself.com/outlander-recap-the-ballad-of-the-silver-fox-of-my-heart-12-2018
 

Go Fug Yourself has hilarious Outlander recaps

[toolazy]

16 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I've just learned that Connie Verzak, who used to do funny photo-recaps of the episodes at tvkillstime.com, is instead doing just episode commentary.  I didn't stop to read what she wrote about episodes 401 thru 405.  I always loved her photo recaps, which were clever and very funny, but if I'm looking for in-depth commentary I find enough of that here.  I'm not keen to read long blocks of text at yet another website. Still, I went looking -- hoping she'd put up a photo recap -- after I saw that Diana gave her a shout-out on Facebook. That's how I learned that she is refusing to refer to this particular episode by it's title "Savages."  I think that's a mistake AND a misreading of the title.  I assumed it was chosen as the title as a means of questioning our assumptions about just WHO the "savages in the episode ARE.  Clearly Mr. Mueller thinks the native Americans are "savages" but in the end, who is it that scalps a woman -- a tribal elder and a healer?  It's Mueller who commits that atrocity.  So who really is the "savage" referred to in the episode title?

She defended this on Twitter.  Being that she's a sharp cookie, she totally understands the irony of the title but as a person of native ancestry, she takes it kind of personally and chooses not to use the word. I'm not sure why that's controversial. 

16 hours ago, Nidratime said:

Which clearly means she doesn't understand it.

She clearly stated on Twitter that she does understand it.  She's not an idiot. 

7 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

So no one else thought the doll was what brought the measles into the Mueller household?

I did. 

4 hours ago, Ziggy said:

More about the passage of time ...

Someone in the "No Book Talk" thread pointed out that when Claire is asked if she has any grandchildren, she says she doesn't.  But by then Marsali really should have had her baby.  Whoops!

I'm actually pretty good about letting these things go, because overall, I'm really impressed with the show.  So now a part of me wishes I hadn't read those posts (and thus destroyed my illusion), but I just can't seem to stop wanting to read more about everyone's thoughts!!!

Someone else pointed out that the way the question is asked, with hand motions indicating a pregnant belly, made it seem like the question was more literal - have you given birth - and even if she had wanted to talk about Fergus, they didn't have enough shared language for her to explain it.  

Note that she also did not mention Faith.  

Edited December 5, 2018 by toolazy

[Lady Iris]

I could live my life so peacefully if I never again had to hear a woman whimper, "Hold me" to her beloved. It was overkill in the 80's and 90's daytime tv and I cannot believe Claire Frickin' Randall Fraser, Medical Doctor and Lady of Lallybroch uttered those very words. I don't care how rattled she was.

Welcome back Murtaugh!

8 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

So no one else thought the doll was what brought the measles into the Mueller household?

Me! Me! I did!!!

[FnkyChkn34]

21 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I could live my life so peacefully if I never again had to hear a woman whimper, "Hold me" to her beloved. It was overkill in the 80's and 90's daytime tv and I cannot believe Claire Frickin' Randall Fraser, Medical Doctor and Lady of Lallybroch uttered those very words. I don't care how rattled she was.

I agree. I thought it was really campy. 

I also thought the doll brought the measles. The way they focused on it burning at the end was telling, in my opinion. 

[toolazy]

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I agree. I thought it was really campy. 

I also thought the doll brought the measles. The way they focused on it burning at the end was telling, in my opinion. 

And the fact that it was the title card.  

[CarpeFelis]

10 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

So no one else thought the doll was what brought the measles into the Mueller household?

I was thinking that too. Especially because of the little scene at the beginning with the doll getting wrapped up when he bought it.

[Cdh20]

11 hours ago, Ziggy said:

More about the passage of time ...

Someone in the "No Book Talk" thread pointed out that when Claire is asked if she has any grandchildren, she says she doesn't.  But by then Marsali really should have had her baby.  Whoops!

I'm actually pretty good about letting these things go, because overall, I'm really impressed with the show.  So now a part of me wishes I hadn't read those posts (and thus destroyed my illusion), but I just can't seem to stop wanting to read more about everyone's thoughts!!!

This was me-over there, I have not read Drums yet, so I start posting over there, but there are so many more of you over here  that it is interesting ( it's kinda hard to not be spoiled). 

[cardigirl]

On 12/5/2018 at 7:00 AM, Pestilentia said:

So no one else thought the doll was what brought the measles into the Mueller household?

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/transmission.html

The measles virus can only survive on surfaces for about two hours.  More likely Mueller carried it in, or his son did. It definitely came from town.  In the book, it ravages the Native American village.

[Pestilentia]

11 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

The measles virus can only survive on surfaces for about two hours. 

Yeah, I wondered about that but there's so much lore about blankets carrying smallpox and infecting indigenous people that I thought they might have just extrapolated that to measles.

[aemom]

19 hours ago, taanja said:

https://www.gofugyourself.com/outlander-recap-the-ballad-of-the-silver-fox-of-my-heart-12-2018
 

Go Fug Yourself has hilarious Outlander recaps

I love their recaps!

[taanja]

3 hours ago, AEMom said:

I love their recaps!

I laugh out loud!