S02.E09: Empathy

[Trini]

Quote

Dr. Neil Melendez, Dr. Morgan Reznick and Dr. Claire Brown grapple with a patient's wish to perform an operation that would keep him from acting on his pedophilic urges; and Dr. Shaun Murphy learns a lesson in empathy.

Airdate: Nov. 26, 2018

[Trini]

[BTW, the press release for this episode says that it was directed by Joanna Kerns, and I thought that name sounded familiar. Indeed, I knew her as the mother on Growing Pains, but turns out she has also been directing TV for the past 20 years! Well, it was news to me.]

[Driad]

Wow, a medical drama that does not have the doctors shock flatline! Gold star for someone.

[Annber03]

I knew that guy was gonna kill himself. Still winced when he fell forward in front of that bus at the end anyway. Very interesting case, and I liked the debate between Claire, Morgan, and Melendez throughout. 

On a lighter note, love Shaun learning to drive in order to do more to help Glassman. And flawed though Lea's analogy might've been in some ways, it got him motivated and allowed him to focus much better. They've both learned from their mistakes the last time she tried to teach him to drive, so yay! 

I also liked Shaun telling the fish "I've got this", and chuckled at Glassman's little "Ow" when he got hit by the seatbelt :p. 

And Shaun's patient is doing better, too, though I do understand his guilt over his suggestion potentially going wrong. All in all a good episode for him :). 

Melendez and Lim competing was interesting, too, though I'm not surprised Andrews is hanging in there. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Andrew is such an asshole. I hope Lim and Melendez join forces against him. 

I was conflicted about Claire and Morgan's patient. It stems from my inability to understand how you could desire the underage, let alone the ones in your family. I can't empathize because the course of his dilemma is far beyond me reach 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[thuganomics85]

I can just imagine the thought process in the writers' room sometimes:

Writer 1: "OK, Claire finally got a huge victory last week, but obviously we can't let her have happiness for too long.  Any ideas?"

Writer 2: "I know!  Why don't we have a case where not only do all of her attempts to help the patient fail, but it ends with him just throwing himself in front of a bus!  In front of her!!"

David Shore: "Brilliant!  I knew that's why we hired you!"

Weeks later

Antonia Thomas (reading the script): "Figures.  I'm not allowed to smile too much on this show!"

 

In all seriousness, I did like how they handled the case, and how she, Melendez, and even Reznick played off one another, during all of the debates and decisions.  Also, Tyler Ritter (who I remember as Malone on Arrow) really does look like his brother, Jason, in certain angles.

I know I feel like I've said this for almost every pairing, but I really do enjoy Shaun/Park, and how Park seems to influence Shaun for the better, but treats him with respect and doesn't condescend.  Interesting seeing him get more personally involved in this case, since I remember Park usually frowning upon prisoners due to his previous job, but I guess the patient being a juvenile made it different for him.  Glad Shaun found a way to help out and even learned some empathy!

Should have known that Lim vs. Melendez was going to end with Andrews pulling the rug, and keeping the job.  Allegra seemed happy with that decision, so did she want that all along?  Of course, the big winner was Shaun since he won the best!  Hee! 

Not sure if the bar scene was suppose to be setting up something more, but at the very least, I once again really want a flashback episode to when Melendez and Lim were residents together.  Even if they do the whole classic/cliche "cheesy fake wigs to make them look younger" thing, I really want it.  Nicholas Gonzalez and Christina Chang are fun together.

Lea is back and actually is helpful by finding a way to help Shaun learn to drive.  Now, he just needs to learn not to accidentally wack someone with the seatbelt, although Glassman's "Ouch!" slayed me.

Edited November 27, 2018 by thuganomics85

[Annber03]

35 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I was conflicted about Claire and Morgan's patient. It stems from my inability to understand how you could desire the underage, let alone the ones in your family. I can't empathize because the course of his dilemma is far beyond me reach 

Same. Kinda made Claire's answer to Shaun during their "empathy" discussion interesting, though-yeah, it was more general sympathy than empathy guiding her reactions towards his struggle here, but she still showed compassion of some kind. Most people wouldn't even manage that. In some ways, her answer to Shaun's question surprised me a bit, given how compassionate she tends to be, but at the same time, given how often that compassion's come back to bite her, I can see why she'd feel that way, too. 

37 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Not sure if the bar scene was suppose to be setting up something more, but at the very least, I once again really want a flashback episode to when Melendez and Lim were residents together.  Even if they do the whole classic/cliche "cheesy fake wigs to make them look younger" thing, I really want it.  Nicholas Gonzalez and Christina Chang are fun together.

And again, I co-sign this suggestion :D. LOL at your comments about the writers and Claire, too. 

[preeya]

Who was the actor playing testicle guy? I could swear he's a Ritter. Perhaps John's son?

[chocolatine]

On 11/26/2018 at 8:07 PM, Annber03 said:

On a lighter note, love Shaun learning to drive in order to do more to help Glassman. And flawed though Lea's analogy might've been in some ways, it got him motivated and allowed him to focus much better. They've both learned from their mistakes the last time she tried to teach him to drive, so yay! 

This was the first time I didn't hate Lea. For once, she focused only on helping Shaun.

On 11/26/2018 at 8:21 PM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Andrew is such an asshole. I hop Lim and Melendez join forces against him. 

He made himself look really unprofessional too. One of the core competencies of leadership is delegation - it shows that you trust the people who work for you and are invested in their growth. Being a control freak/egomaniac who thinks he's can do everything better than everyone else is not leadership.

I thought Billy's backstory of having a terrible dad and a younger brother who died was too on the nose. I like this show better when it's subtle.

The story of a pedophile trying to suppress his urges has been done before on Private Practice, so the ending didn't shock me.

Edited November 28, 2018 by chocolatine

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

 

I also liked Shaun telling the fish "I've got this", and chuckled at Glassman's little "Ow" when he got hit by the seatbelt :p. 

I also imagined Glassman saying "Ow" again when Lea slammed her seat back and again when Lea slammed the car door. I was laughing out loud by the end of the scene. I'm bad!

[TwistedandBored]

I think Claire and Morgan's patient case was interesting. I also think that patient shouldn't have been their patient. The patient seemed to need more psychological evaluation then surgery. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by TwistedandBored

[methodwriter85]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

In all seriousness, I did like how they handled the case, and how she, Melendez, and even Reznick played off one another, during all of the debates and decisions.  Also, Tyler Ritter (who I remember as Malone on Arrow) really does look like his brother, Jason, in certain angles.

Coincidentally, Jason Ritter played a hebephile in a recent HBO movie called The Tale with Laura Dern. He was a coach that groomed a 13-year old girl into a sexual relationship in the 1970's. Tyler's lankier, I think, as opposed to Jason, who's a brick.

I had a psychology class or social issues class (I really can't remember what) and our teacher basically explained to us that pedophiles can't be cured. Something is wrong and hardwired into their brain that makes them see a 2-year old (or whatever) as the woman of their dreams. It's sad, especially the ones who really do want to keep away from this. I think even castration doesn't really work. The best you can do is make sure they don't have access to children.

[possibilities]

After he tried to destroy his testicles, I was surprised Claire didn't get him declared a danger to himself, and thus gotten the staff shrink to mandate he take the antibiotics or whatever other treatments they wanted to do. Why the climber and no one else?

I continue to be annoyed by Glassman. If he really didn't think he had a problem that made him unsafe to drive, then he could have submitted to a formal test and kept his license when he passed. But his unwillingness to do that showed he doesn't really believe he's safe to drive, and he doesn't care if he's a danger to others, either.

I enjoyed Lim a lot this week.

[doctor destiny]

"Balls in your court"

"Are you a fan of castration surgery - I am now"

[greekmom]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I had a psychology class or social issues class (I really can't remember what) and our teacher basically explained to us that pedophiles can't be cured. Something is wrong and hardwired into their brain that makes them see a 2-year old (or whatever) as the woman of their dreams. It's sad, especially the ones who really do want to keep away from this. I think even castration doesn't really work. The best you can do is make sure they don't have access to children.

That was my thought the whole episode. Like how was the guy so sure that the surgery would work to curb his urges?  He needed more psych care than anything.  Maybe even being checked into a mental facility than the surgery.  

Andrews is such a pompous ass. I wish Glassman's storyline didn't include his memory loss so he would have gotten his job back eventually.  I did like Shaun winning the bet.

[Dusty]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Not sure if the bar scene was suppose to be setting up something more, but at the very least, I once again really want a flashback episode to when Melendez and Lim were residents together.  Even if they do the whole classic/cliche "cheesy fake wigs to make them look younger" thing, I really want it.  Nicholas Gonzalez and Christina Chang are fun together.

I would prefer that pairing than a Claire/Melendez one. For one, Lim isn't his subordinate so already it's better and two I like the character. She could probably get Melendez to get loosen up every once in a while too. Overall though, if they wanted to keep romance out of the hospital then I'm totally fine with that too. Not that I don't like Claire but last season the crush thing made me roll my eyes and if they were going to go down that road then they should've had her stay off his team.

The only thing I could think at the end was damn, George's and buses on medical shows are a deadly combination.

I'm not sure if Allegra was happy that Andrews kept the job or that was more of a "I knew it" kind of smile. She said to him that his problem was decision making and to me that stunt he pulled just proved her right. He couldn't make the decision so he did what was easiest.

[preeya]

8 hours ago, preeya said:

Who was the actor playing testicle guy? I could swear he's a Ritter. Perhaps John's son?

OK, it was Tyler Ritter.  After reading through the posts, I see my thoughts were correct.

[catrice2]

Although I generally don't like the Andrews character it is quite possible that after spending more time with them he realized that neither one of them are quite ready and rather than put them there when they're not quite ready he'd rather wait just a little bit longer.

I agree about the constant unhappiness of Claire it really is getting to be quite trying and I'm sure they're not through yet because they have the opportunity to bring her troubled mom and to add to her angst.

I actually like Park and I do like Park with Sean.

 he might curb his sex drive he might not but you can be deviant with other things I hate to say that but you can use objects or other types of things so I don't know that it would have solved the problem. I do think it was irresponsible of them not to at least show them having a psych consult or talking about it. I realize they can't show everything in a episode for time constraints but that would have only made sense.

Let's face it I'm very shallow at this point I don't care who they put Melendez with. I just want a shirtless scene. I'm sure I missed some last year because I wasn't watching this show until the end but I'm here for it especially now that Jared is gone 

[notcreative enough]

That soccer player was too damn old to run into a street after a ball. A seven year old maybe but he looked like a grown ass man. 

Who makes an old man who recently had major surgery climb into the back of a two door car. 

Of course Andrew's keeps the chief of surgery for himself. Reason number 1 billion on why he shouldn't be the president of the hospital or whatever he is. 

I liked Shaun and Park together. He's no Jared but he works well with Shaun.

[luvapickle]

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Although I generally don't like the Andrews character it is quite possible that after spending more time with them he realized that neither one of them are quite ready and rather than put them there when they're not quite ready he'd rather wait just a little bit longer.

I agree about the constant unhappiness of Claire it really is getting to be quite trying and I'm sure they're not through yet because they have the opportunity to bring her troubled mom and to add to her angst.

I actually like Park and I do like Park with Sean.

 he might curb his sex drive he might not but you can be deviant with other things I hate to say that but you can use objects or other types of things so I don't know that it would have solved the problem. I do think it was irresponsible of them not to at least show them having a psych consult or talking about it. I realize they can't show everything in a episode for time constraints but that would have only made sense.

Let's face it I'm very shallow at this point I don't care who they put Melendez with. I just want a shirtless scene. I'm sure I missed some last year because I wasn't watching this show until the end but I'm here for it especially now that Jared is gone 

They did talk to him about a psyche consult, & it was stated it would take months before anything could be done.

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

After he tried to destroy his testicles, I was surprised Claire didn't get him declared a danger to himself, and thus gotten the staff shrink to mandate he take the antibiotics or whatever other treatments they wanted to do. Why the climber and no one else?

I continue to be annoyed by Glassman. If he really didn't think he had a problem that made him unsafe to drive, then he could have submitted to a formal test and kept his license when he passed. But his unwillingness to do that showed he doesn't really believe he's safe to drive, and he doesn't care if he's a danger to others, either.

I enjoyed Lim a lot this week.

Think about when you get older & you have something so integrated in your life, taken away. He cannot practice or do surgery/consult. So his profession is gone. Now something so very basic to many, is taken away. Most would have an extremely hard time giving it up. Most people know deep down it could be endangering others, but it's hard to admit.

[Trini]

I don't have a lot of commentary for this week. I liked it overall; thought all the subplots were interesting. Lea was used well for once. I'm glad Shaun found a way to help the juvie teen. Melendez and Lim work better as rivals, so I don't want a romance. Reznik still sucks.

[meira.hand]

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Also, Tyler Ritter (who I remember as Malone on Arrow) really does look like his brother, Jason, in certain angles.

I thought of Jason Ritter immediately but couldn't find the name on IMDb. Only the resemblance of both is to their father of course. It hits me every time I watch them (I am old enough to have watched Three's Company thru most of it's run when it was first broadcasted). I get a small twinge every time I see that vulnerable half smile.

[Guest]

Pedophilia kinda feels like low hanging fruit for an empathy episode. That is the one taboo that people are rightfully never going to soften their stance towards. Even murderers get more sympathy depending on the circumstances. That's also a brave actor, I couldn't imagine wanting to take on the role. I guess actors blather on all the time about wanting to challenge themselves with the roles they're not comfortable with, so this is the epitome of that. Better that than straight actors whining about how difficult it is to play gay. I didn't really understand anything that happened with Forehead Guy other than childishly giggling at the idea of having a breast implant in your forehead. Is that a thing? Can you just slap a breast implant anywhere that got banged up and it just magically goes back to its original form?

Lea was...tolerable this episode? Who am I? And her hyper specific metaphors about surgery to help Shaun be able to drive were actually very sweet and showed how well she knew him. I wish that they had skipped the Hershey melodrama and gone straight to these sort of plots right after they kissed. It's going to take a lot to convince me that she is actually good for him and bring me around to them inevitably becoming a couple. Blah, at least the return of Bitchy Glassman served the purpose of compelling Shaun to learn to drive. He's still a surly, crusty old fart.

This episode made me ship the hell out of Melendez and Lim. They had better chemistry, tension, and banter in three or four scenes then Claire and Melendez have had in the entire series. Hell, the actors have better chemistry than any main romantic pairing in most of the shows I've watched in months – and I watch a shitton of shows. That bar scene...sparks everywhere. A sex scene between them would be (surprisingly) insanely hot. Plus you don't have the awkward ethical dilemma of the power disparity like you would with Claire/Melendez. That might be the primary reason that the writers had Andrews arbitrarily decide to keep his job at the last second. Sorry, this episode just made me wonder why we are supposed to be shipping Claire/Melendez in the first place. Forget them and Shaun/Lea (cringe), I'm 1000% here for a Melendez/Lim hookup.

[methodwriter85]

33 minutes ago, meira.hand said:

I thought of Jason Ritter immediately but couldn't find the name on IMDb. Only the resemblance of both is to their father of course. It hits me every time I watch them (I am old enough to have watched Three's Company thru most of it's run when it was first broadcasted). I get a small twinge every time I see that vulnerable half smile.

Jason's been more active...I was reading up Tyler's bio and it looks like he taught in Argentina for a few years and didn't start pursuing a career until he was 25. You can definitely see their dad there, although again Tyler's slender while Jason is a total brickhouse.

2 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Plus you don't have the awkward ethical dilemma of the power disparity like you would with Claire/Melendez. That might be the primary reason that the writers had Andrews arbitrarily decide to keep his job at the last second. Sorry, this episode just made me wonder why we are supposed to be shipping Claire/Melendez in the first place. Forget them and Shaun/Lea (cringe), I'm 1000% here for a Melendez/Lim hookup.

Because Claire is the pretty young ingenue of the show, I think.

[tennisgurl]

Well, I guess it has been a few weeks since Claire had a horrible trauma to deal with. Your way too happy Claire, you gotta get that sadness in again! 

I liked all of the plots this week, I found them all to be really interesting. The guy with pedophile urges was a fascinating case, and I liked the ways they tried to talk about what to do about him, and while I figured he was going to kill himself basically from the moment he came back with his testicles almost hacked off, it was still a really sad situation. He definitely needed therapy and not surgery, and it seemed like they were trying to get him into some kind of therapy program, but it would take too long. I dont really know if you can "cure" someone with those urges, when they're just hardwired into them from day one, and it really is tragic for people who desperately try to fight those urges, and even more so for any victims. Just a really messed up, sad situation with no easy answers. I did like how Claire and Morgan worked together, and the kindness that Claire shows to everyone she comes across, and I like Reznik a lot more now that she has more going on than just being an asshole. I also liked them as a kind of greek chorus in the back, reacting to all of the surgeons fighting over who will get the promotion. 

I like Park and Shaun together a lot too, even if he isnt filling the hole that Jarred left in the show yet. You can see how the work together as a team, and how they influence and play off of each other. It was actually weird seeing Park being so kind to a prison inmate, but I guess since he was a juvenile offender in jail for a non violent crime, he could show some empathy for the kid. Or, like Lin said, he feels guilty about arresting kids like him for minor things, and seeing their lives destroyed. Or being a doctor is helping him with that whole "being nice to people" thing. 

I am totally down with a Lin/Melendez hook up, especially over a Claire/Melendez one. Lin and Melendez seem like a more equal pairing who have a history together as colleagues, and give each other shit but also clearly have a lot of respect for each other and enjoy each others company, while Claire and Melendez still seem like an unequal pairing to me, even if he isnt her direct supervisor. She just comes across as younger, which she is, and I feel like she still looks at him as a superior, which he is in a work capacity, and that hurts a possibility of a romance. 

I actually liked Lea this week! Her teaching Shaun to drive was sweet, complete with her questionable metaphor. Shaun telling the fish "I've got this" while the camera stayed in the fish cracked me up. It was super endearing. 

Andrews calls everyone together, just so he can talk about how awesome he is, and how no one can replace him, even after following his team around all week, with his coffee cup of judgement, creeping on them while they do their work, and making them compete with each other. At least Shaun got a win. The goldfish will eat like a king!

[catrice2]

Yeah well Melendez and Lim I really think it works better as colleagues who call each other on their stuff.

If they do get romantically involved then you would have the whole issue of lovers competing for the same job and that's no fun either.

I didn't watch it last year but it was interesting that Melendez mentioned that she was impulsive and I don't know that I've seen that side other than when she picked up the man from traffic court or the bar or wherever it was.

As I've said before I'm perfectly fine with people having love interests outside of where they work. I have no problem with them bringing in a girlfriend for Melendez. I just need them to get to the shirtless scene like within the next two or three episodes ha ha.

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

Jason's been more active...I was reading up Tyler's bio and it looks like he taught in Argentina for a few years and didn't start pursuing a career until he was 25. You can definitely see their dad there, although again Tyler's slender while Jason is a total brickhouse.

Because Claire is the pretty young ingenue of the show, I think.

That's not actually how I see Claire at all. I think she acts unsure but don't think she acts that young considering  that she's probably has to always be the adult in her relationship with her mother. I definitely don't see her as an ingenue. .selfishly for me I think they are the two most attractive people on the show now that Jared is gone haha but seriously I don't see any other pairing being interesting to me. What would interest me about that is sort of a role reversal at times where he's not always confident and more questioning and she becomes more confident. In some ways I do think he comes across as being very safe and it would be nice to see him do something reckless.

honestly they give her such horrible heavy storylines  I would just like to see her have a wild romance and act out of character.

I would imagine too that you was still have a problem with Claire not wanting to have kids because I can't imagine given her upbringing she would want to rush and have children especially not with where she is in her career. That's why I think it makes more sense for them to bring in a different love interest.

They don't have to show it all the time but I would like to see that they all have some type of happy relationship or relationships outside of work. Right now I'm the only person who does is Shaun

[vibeology]

5 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

Who makes an old man who recently had major surgery climb into the back of a two door car. 

Shaun has a learner's permit so I'm guessing he legally has to have a licensed driver in the front seat with him. That isn't Glassman, anymore. It sucks to stuff him back there but there's no way Shaun would drive if he wasn't following the rules.

I was thrilled when Lea pointed out that hitting the garbage cans was the right decision in Shaun's little crash. Between the soccer player, the other car and the cans, the cans was exactly where a good driver would end up. And that soccer player was way too old to be running out into traffic after a ball.

[AnimeMania]

42 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

The goldfish will eat like a king!

I am not sure that Albert is a goldfish, I couldn't quite get a good look at him, but it might have been a female red swordtail or a molly, both of which are tropical fish.

[rmontro]

16 hours ago, preeya said:

Who was the actor playing testicle guy? 

Just out of curiosity, I Googled "testicle guy".  I had to laugh at what came up.

I like the way this show just shows everybody's flaws seemingly without any judgement.  The pedophile guy didn't want to say what his problem was, and the staff was all "We're you're doctors, we won't tell anyone".  But when Morgan is notified of his return on her cellphone, she says "The creep's back", lol.  Very true to life.

I feel like Shaun was kind of being a d!ck taking Glassman's license, but it was the responsible thing to do.  Of course, if Glassman wants to drive and gets pulled over, he can just say "I don't remember what I did with it"  :)

Lea was likable for a change, helping Shaun to learn how to drive.  That whole episode made me wonder how the heck Shaun got through medical school.  To say it must have been difficult sounds like an understatement.

[BookThief]

20 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Also, Tyler Ritter (who I remember as Malone on Arrow) really does look like his brother, Jason, in certain angles.

19 hours ago, preeya said:

Who was the actor playing testicle guy? I could swear he's a Ritter. Perhaps John's son?

I had forgotten by the episodes end, but thank you for mentioning it! There was one point where I was like "Wow, that guy really looks like John Ritter!" but it wasn't constant and I guess I didn't realize there were any other actors beyond Jason in the family.

I guess killing himself makes it an easy wrap up but it might have been interesting for the story to go another way (I'm not saying I condone pedophilia! But having him kill himself seemed like the easy way out. "He killed himself because it was the only way to keep children safe!"

[Driad]

20 minutes ago, BookThief said:

But having him kill himself seemed like the easy way out.

Could the patient have committed himself to a mental hospital where he would have no interaction with children?  I hope that could be arranged quickly, since he said he was a danger to them.

[Fable]

This episode was a mixed bag for me.  For one thing, I mostly find Lea a waste, but I actually found her, dare I say, likable?  I usually prefer the scenes that take place in the hospital as opposed to outside, but the cases of the week both made me uncomfortable…a man mutilating his genitalia and then jumping in front of a bus and a kid being beaten in the head with a bat by his father just disturbed me a lot, although I did like the pairings of Morgan with Claire and Park with Shaun. 

I enjoy the interactions between Lim and Melendez, but I am far from shipping them.  I just think they have good chemistry together, but I guess one of the things I enjoy most about this whole cast is the chemistry they generate with each other. 

[statsgirl]

I liked Park feeling guilty about the kids that he sent to juvie and that's why he wanted to repair Billy's forehead.

I want Lim to bury Melendez. Andrews is no prize but Melendez wouldn't be any better.

15 hours ago, greekmom said:

That was my thought the whole episode. Like how was the guy so sure that the surgery would work to curb his urges?  He needed more psych care than anything.  Maybe even being checked into a mental facility than the surgery. 

That was Claire's suggestion, to look for alternate treatments but Reznick argued against it saying that those treatments don't work.  Yet another reason why no one should listen to a surgeon's opinion of other areas of medicine. Reznick was wrong and I hate that the show's writers didn't challenge it. That's the problem with Shore's medical shows, it's flash over substance.  At least Grey's Anatomy tends to get the medicine right even if they go OTT too often.

9 hours ago, luvapickle said:

Think about when you get older & you have something so integrated in your life, taken away. He cannot practice or do surgery/consult. So his profession is gone. Now something so very basic to many, is taken away. Most would have an extremely hard time giving it up. Most people know deep down it could be endangering others, but it's hard to admit.

There was a time in my life when I couldn't drive.  I was pregnant and fainting and my mother said that if I didn't stop driving, as a doctor it was her responsibility to inform that [state] police that I was a hazard. And she would have too if I hadn't stopped driving.

Near the end of his life my father had a number of physical problems that caused his doctor to forbid him to drive. He felt very much like Glassman does, that his independence and ability to make decisions for himself. It was much more devastating than I realized at the time.

But both my father and I had physical problems that affected our abilities to drive safely.  Shaun gave Glassman the Controlled Word Association Test, and who cares if he can't name a bunch of words that start with the same letter.   

Quote

The participant is usually asked to name words beginning with a letter, excluding proper nouns, for one minute and this procedure is repeated three times. The most commons letters used are FAS because of their frequency in the English language. The examiner must quickly write down the words provided by the participant on a piece of paper. The whole examination usually takes 5–10 minutes.

Someone needs to give Glassman a real neuropsych evaluation to assess if he shouldn't drive. And if he can't, refer him to someone who can actually help him retain his independence.  The scenes with Lea helping Shaun learn to drive were cute in terms of the show being about Shaun. But Shaun driving him around doesn't really help Glassman and Shaun doesn't have the time to do it much anyway.

6 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Because Claire is the pretty young ingenue of the show, I think.

I think that's a David Shore thing. His shows tend to either have ingenue/cynical older man (House/Cameron, Houdini & Doyle) or similar age couple who are screwed-up (House/Cuddy, Due South).

[Starchild]

11 hours ago, luvapickle said:

They did talk to him about a psyche consult, & it was stated it would take months before anything could be done.

I don't buy it. He mutilated himself, and then refused medical treatment, to the point he almost died in surgery. He was clearly a danger to himself. People have been immediately and involuntarily confined for psychiatric assessment on less obvious behaviour than that. Sloppy.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Starchild

[Trini]

9 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Sorry, this episode just made me wonder why we are supposed to be shipping Claire/Melendez in the first place. Forget them and Shaun/Lea (cringe), I'm 1000% here for a Melendez/Lim hookup.

Now that I think about it, besides Shaun/Lea, the show doesn't seem really committed to any romantic relationships this season. A contrast from last season when there were at least four. It doesn't have to be between the doctors, but I'd to see some romance come back.

[Dusty]

25 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I don't buy it. He mutilated himself, and then refused medical treatment, to the point he almost died in surgery. He was clearly a danger to himself. People have been immediately and involuntarily confined for psychiatric assessment on less obvious behaviour than that. Sloppy.

Me neither. As someone said above, Claire has gotten someone's rights taken away over wanting to be able to continue a hobby that was dangerous. But for some reason now this guy, who purposely hurt himself, it wasn't even considered. Come to think of it, if a doctor knows that their patient purposely hurt them self are they require to get a psych consult to talk to the patient? I would think they would be but I don't know for sure.

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, Fable said:

the cases of the week both made me uncomfortable…a man mutilating his genitalia and then jumping in front of a bus and a kid being beaten in the head with a bat by his father just disturbed me a lot, although I did like the pairings of Morgan with Claire and Park with Shaun. 

This is a shallow male statement, but I think Claire and Morgan compliment each other's looks.  They make each other look better when they're together, odd phenomenon.

Good point on the cases of the week.  If the guy with the damaged forehead had died because they tried to fix it, that might have been a situation with more interesting repercussions.

[tennisgurl]

This episode reminded me a lot of an early Criminal Minds episode, where the team is in town trying to find a serial killer who kills prostitutes, and a teenager, played by a young Anton Yelchin, comes to them, and tells them he gets urges to kill prostitutes, but is desperately trying to fight those urges. Also a sad episode with a rather tragic ending, but a bit more hopeful than this one. 

It really is weird that Claire didnt try to have him confined and given a psych eval. he was clearly a danger to himself and others. 

[possibilities]

12 hours ago, luvapickle said:

Think about when you get older & you have something so integrated in your life, taken away. He cannot practice or do surgery/consult. So his profession is gone. Now something so very basic to many, is taken away. Most would have an extremely hard time giving it up. Most people know deep down it could be endangering others, but it's hard to admit.

Tough titmouse. You could kill someone. Deal with our feelings somewhere other than behind the wheel. I have zero sympathy for this behavior. Glassman is supposed to be a responsible adult, not a petulant toddler.

 

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Shaun gave Glassman the Controlled Word Association Test, and who cares if he can't name a bunch of words that start with the same letter.   

I agree with this-- they should have given him a test that would actually have assessed skills related to driving.

 

The show has been really sloppy about the writing lately. The lack of a psych consult for the one patient, and then how they are handling Glassman, it's really simple obvious stuff they're glossing over.

[rubyred]

There's a lot of work to level the playing field still to be done, but I think we're still heading for Claire/Melendez. My proof is that Melendez cracked two-and-a-half to three smiles this episode. They're trying to lighten him up.

[theatremouse]

The opening with George was sort of a mcguffin. Reznik said he was on Lupron? Is this character made of money? If he doesn't have prostate cancer (or endometriosis or fibroids), insurance is very unlikely to cover that medication, and it is super expensive. Or was he getting it through unofficial channels? (but if he were doing that it begs the question why he didn't seek other not-so-legal assistance when the hospital wouldn't do what he wanted)

Still I did find it preposterous they didn't get him on at least a temporary psych hold given he was clearly a danger to at minimum himself.

[bros402]

On 11/26/2018 at 11:24 PM, thuganomics85 said:

In all seriousness, I did like how they handled the case, and how she, Melendez, and even Reznick played off one another, during all of the debates and decisions.  Also, Tyler Ritter (who I remember as Malone on Arrow) really does look like his brother, Jason, in certain angles.

 

On 11/27/2018 at 12:23 AM, preeya said:

Who was the actor playing testicle guy? I could swear he's a Ritter. Perhaps John's son?

 

17 hours ago, preeya said:

OK, it was Tyler Ritter.  After reading through the posts, I see my thoughts were correct.

The whole episode I was like "that guy has to be a Ritter, all of them have the same facial features!"

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I liked Park feeling guilty about the kids that he sent to juvie and that's why he wanted to repair Billy's forehead.

I want Lim to bury Melendez. Andrews is no prize but Melendez wouldn't be any better.

That was Claire's suggestion, to look for alternate treatments but Reznick argued against it saying that those treatments don't work.  Yet another reason why no one should listen to a surgeon's opinion of other areas of medicine. Reznick was wrong and I hate that the show's writers didn't challenge it. That's the problem with Shore's medical shows, it's flash over substance.  At least Grey's Anatomy tends to get the medicine right even if they go OTT too often.

There was a time in my life when I couldn't drive.  I was pregnant and fainting and my mother said that if I didn't stop driving, as a doctor it was her responsibility to inform that [state] police that I was a hazard. And she would have too if I hadn't stopped driving.

Near the end of his life my father had a number of physical problems that caused his doctor to forbid him to drive. He felt very much like Glassman does, that his independence and ability to make decisions for himself. It was much more devastating than I realized at the time.

But both my father and I had physical problems that affected our abilities to drive safely.  Shaun gave Glassman the Controlled Word Association Test, and who cares if he can't name a bunch of words that start with the same letter.   

Someone needs to give Glassman a real neuropsych evaluation to assess if he shouldn't drive. And if he can't, refer him to someone who can actually help him retain his independence.  The scenes with Lea helping Shaun learn to drive were cute in terms of the show being about Shaun. But Shaun driving him around doesn't really help Glassman and Shaun doesn't have the time to do it much anyway.

I think that's a David Shore thing. His shows tend to either have ingenue/cynical older man (House/Cameron, Houdini & Doyle) or similar age couple who are screwed-up (House/Cuddy, Due South).

Shaun took Glassman's license, but did not report him, so Glassman can still drive.

Also, Lea should *not* be teaching Shaun how to drive - he should go to a driving school - or maybe see an occupational therapist at a driver rehab clinic

Glassman should get a personal care assistant to drive him around - I mean, he's a doctor, he most likely has a good amount of money to hire someone beyond what insurance will cover.

[doctor destiny]

Okay I really liked the episode.  Nice balance of humor and subtle comedy.  I got that the writing team were subtly trying to show that in fact Shaun does have a lot of empathy.  It's a complete canard that autistic people don't.  In fact it's pretty insulting.  This idea was promulgated by Simon Baron-Cohen (Sasha's cousin) a researcher at Cambridge University.  A lot of people in the autism community believe that Baron-Cohen has been detrimental to the cause with his extreme male brain theory (women have autism too and it's definitely not that) and his empathy-deficit theory.  Many autistics like my lovely children are deeply empathetic to the point where it harms them.  They many not have as good cognitive empathy (understanding what you might think though YMMV) but caring?  Baron-Cohen does auties a big disservice here.  So while it's great to see Shaun's empathy it should never have been in question in the first place.  

[luvapickle]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

 

 

The whole episode I was like "that guy has to be a Ritter, all of them have the same facial features!"

Shaun took Glassman's license, but did not report him, so Glassman can still drive.

Also, Lea should *not* be teaching Shaun how to drive - he should go to a driving school - or maybe see an occupational therapist at a driver rehab clinic

Glassman should get a personal care assistant to drive him around - I mean, he's a doctor, he most likely has a good amount of money to hire someone beyond what insurance will cover.

My brothers taught me how to drive, then I took the driving test. I am not so sure Shaun would "take" to someone unknown teaching him.

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

Tough titmouse. You could kill someone. Deal with our feelings somewhere other than behind the wheel. I have zero sympathy for this behavior. Glassman is supposed to be a responsible adult, not a petulant toddler.

 

I agree with this-- they should have given him a test that would actually have assessed skills related to driving.

 

The show has been really sloppy about the writing lately. The lack of a psych consult for the one patient, and then how they are handling Glassman, it's really simple obvious stuff they're glossing over.

LOL, put it this way, it didn't take Shaun very long to convince Glassman to hand over the license. Most people when you want to take away the keys are not so easy....

[catrice2]

Uh huh, mu dad told us that if we tried to take away his keys we might as well kill him.  He said several times that he would fight any efforts to change his driving....yet oddly now that we are at that stage he has decided on his own that he does not like to drive.  The roads have become "too busy" for him 

[catrice2]

5 hours ago, doctor destiny said:

Okay I really liked the episode.  Nice balance of humor and subtle comedy.  I got that the writing team were subtly trying to show that in fact Shaun does have a lot of empathy.  It's a complete canard that autistic people don't.  In fact it's pretty insulting.  This idea was promulgated by Simon Baron-Cohen (Sasha's cousin) a researcher at Cambridge University.  A lot of people in the autism community believe that Baron-Cohen has been detrimental to the cause with his extreme male brain theory (women have autism too and it's definitely not that) and his empathy-deficit theory.  Many autistics like my lovely children are deeply empathetic to the point where it harms them.  They many not have as good cognitive empathy (understanding what you might think though YMMV) but caring?  Baron-Cohen does auties a big disservice here.  So while it's great to see Shaun's empathy it should never have been in question in the first place.  

I am not well versed in a lot of research, but working in education for years that is what we were told.   Ironically most of my Autistic students were the ones that I formed bonds with.  I got plenty of hugs, love, from most of them and they were certainly not as I was told they would be. It is sad because they would tell parents not to expect love and affection from their child, etc.  Obviously each one of them are different and to prepare all parents for the same thing was ridiculous.  I ran into one recently that I had not seen in 10 years.  He sought me out in a store and it was just beautiful moment .  So no caring and empathy is not true. 

[janey99]

Thought provoking episode!

I know there is a lot of Glassman hate here, but I think his performance is quite good.  I'm not sure of the age of most people on this site, but as a near-50 year old in a high functioning profession with lots of prestige and responsibility, I think he is nailing the fear and sense of displacement that would result from losing his faculties to the point where he can't even drive a car anymore after nearly a lifetime of being at the top of his game.  Factor in that he is supposed to be experiencing and processing all this with those diminished faculties and not with his prior, high functioning brain power, and it is even more impressive.  Additionally, the way he is physically inhabiting the role is spot on.  He looks very similar to someone I knew who died of esophageal cancer, and Glassman's increasingly haggard face and scarecrow body are eerily familiar.

I'm struggling with the pedophile story line, particularly the portrayal of the "urges."  At one point he asks Reznick "you're attracted to men, right?" and then invites her to compare that with what he is experiencing when he is "attracted" to children, however, I'm not sure those two "attractions" are baseline comparable?  Most people who are attracted to socially acceptable potential partners do not walk around so preoccupied with that attraction (and sex generally) that they mutilate their genitals in an attempt to quell the attraction and control their actions.  There must be another more uncontrollable urge in play, and the show's failure to address this was a big fail, especially when, in the immediately prior episode, there was a storyline about a woman who lost her sexual inhibitions as a result of hormones produced by a tumor, and couldn't even stop herself from kissing Shaun as he leaned over her to perform a medical exam.

The juvie storyline was very sad, but Park's Joe Friday "just the facts, ma'am" delivery of every freaking line he has is very distracting and I can't get past it.  We get it, he used a be a cop and now must totally reframe his view of every situation and his reaction to it.  Can he do a better job of it?  He really does not resonate with me! 

I loved the clash of the egos between Melendez, Lim and Andrews - what a great resolution for Andrews to decide, I'm so great, I'll take my new job and keep the old one too!

[Evagirl]

On 11/27/2018 at 6:20 AM, greekmom said:

That was my thought the whole episode. Like how was the guy so sure that the surgery would work to curb his urges?  He needed more psych care than anything.  Maybe even being checked into a mental facility than the surgery.  

I think castration takes away ALL sexual urges.  So if he becomes a eunuch, he won't see children (or anyone for that matter) as sexual objects.  I would imagine this would include not even an urge to fondle children.  So, if what I just said is true, he could live a relative "normal" life, even around children because that desire that drove him to those thoughts are not longer there.  But this is just me speculating.  I have a cousin who was born mentally deficient back in the 60's.  His mom, my aunt, had him castrated at a young age - before puberty if I'm not mistaken.  She was wrong to do this of course because he turned out not to be as mentally handicapped as she thought he would be.  He turned out to be a wonderful man, who worked and took care of himself his entire life.  I believe he would have made someone a good husband.  We were around each other as children and teenagers when hormones are normally raging in young folks.  He never, ever showed any desire for the opposite or same sex his entire life - none, zippo, not even curious.  That's what leads me to believe that the castration would have taken the desire as well.

[ForReal]

19 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I would imagine too that you was still have a problem with Claire not wanting to have kids because I can't imagine given her upbringing she would want to rush and have children especially not with where she is in her career. That's why I think it makes more sense for them to bring in a different love interest.

It seems like this would be true of Lim, too. I don't want to see Melendez with anyone who's going to hurt him again by not sharing his desire for children. Also, I thought it was kind of a dick move when he used her words with Andrews and when she called him on it, he insulted her and smiled smugly. I don't like that kind of competitiveness -- it lacks integrity. I also didn't like it when Lim said she never would have said the words herself. She was described by Melendez as always coming out ahead in their past competitions because she competed with herself and didn't worry about other people; I didn't like her looking so wimpy in this instance.