S01.E06: One Flew Over the Conners' Nest

[Pete Martell]

18 minutes ago, Ragingviolet said:

Before my own divorce I'm sure I would have agreed. When I finally started dating after it was over I at first only went out with men who were similar to my ex husband. Then I had a moment like Darlene did where I was like...what am I doing since that obviously didn't work out. Now I date all kinds of men and find myself more drawn to men who are nothing like my ex. You go through this whole process of learning what you're even attracted to after you get divorced from someone you were married to for a long time. This to me is way more realistic for Darlene, who has always been self aware, than it would be to keep having her date weak men. 

I don't think her being attracted to Ben is unrealistic. I just think the scene where they were touching didn't quite feel right for the characters. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

16 hours ago, wendyg said:

hoodooznoodooz: what's impractical about the card catalogue? It works perfectly for its original purpose, to store index cards. I was in a professor's office some years ago, and he had one, which he used to store cards with summaries of articles and books he'd read with all the bibliographical data. Even now, that would be useful. Not everything is online.

Oh, I like that. Apologies, I guess I was thinking, for most people, the drawers would not be practical. I was wondering how TBBT guys would use them. Maybe to organize Lego bricks? Or something similar to what the professor does. I love the look, but I doubt that I could use them efficiently.

[Chaos Theory]

Adding Jerry and Andy to the show would just mean two more characters the show would need to figure out what to do with.  Neither were all that important anyway.  If The Connors has more then 10 or 11 episodes per season maybe.....but if the show did add a throw away line half the audience would expect to see them.   I don’t think either will ever be mentioned.  

Edited November 30, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Oosala]

I agree with Chaos Theory.  The show already feels too rushed, dealing with all of the people currently on the payroll.  I have a hard time keeping up.  Seems like a situation is introduced and then, 10 minutes later, it is solved.  Adding more characters would NOT help.

[BeachDays]

4 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

He deserves better than a bully who constantly browbeat and ran roughshod over him. Unfortunately, his new girlfriend just seems a hippie-dippie version of Darlene, but still a bully.

 

This is why I don’t buy “I think I found my soulmate” from him.   I think David and Darlene are trying to move on but I think they still love each other.   Their problem is she needs to stop bullying him and he needs to stop cowering.   If you watch “Tangled Up in Blue” closely you can see that David and Darlene are actually in sync for the entire episode (both concerned about Mark, David says he had the same reaction as Darlene when he found out about Harris), and Blue is the odd person out.  I think David is trying to move on because he knows he blew it with Darlene and Darlene is trying to move on to make David happy.   They love each other they just need to be able to approach their relationship as two mature adults and not as messed up teenagers.   If this was real life I would say they are absolutely over, there are plenty of fish in the sea, etc.  But since it’s a fictional show, I think they will go for the “surprising” conclusion.   

 

Again, this is just my perspective from my crazy shipper glasses, I could be reading it very wrong.   I just think the David ep was scripted very carefully.  

[llewis823]

14 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

They love each other they just need to be able to approach their relationship as two mature adults and not as messed up teenagers.  

As I mentioned upthread, my husband I and have been together since we were 14 and 15. However, in 2009, after 23 years of marriage, we split up for 7 months. We both dated other people and had lawyers for the divorce. We were 3 weeks away from signing final divorce papers when we realized we really did love each other, and had finally seen what else was out there and how life was without each other. We reconciled as adults because everything else before the separation had been based on our relationship that came together as teenagers. We still had to pay the lawyer about $2000 but they let us make payments and wished us well and congratulated us on reconciling because it usually doesn't work out this way. Since then, we approached everything much differently than we used to...more maturely. We even wrote up an agreement when we got back together of things we'd like to bring from the short relationships we'd had during those 7 months - things we'd learned - to our new relationship. Our relationship became much better than it ever had been before. So I think this may be the kind of thing they have in mind for David and Darlene.

[BeachDays]

10 minutes ago, llewis823 said:

As I mentioned upthread, my husband I and have been together since we were 14 and 15. However, in 2009, after 23 years of marriage, we split up for 7 months. We both dated other people and had lawyers for the divorce. We were 3 weeks away from signing final divorce papers when we realized we really did love each other, and had finally seen what else was out there and how life was without each other. We reconciled as adults because everything else before the separation had been based on our relationship that came together as teenagers. We still had to pay the lawyer about $2000 but they let us make payments and wished us well and congratulated us on reconciling because it usually doesn't work out this way. Since then, we approached everything much differently than we used to...more maturely. We even wrote up an agreement when we got back together of things we'd like to bring from the short relationships we'd had during those 7 months - things we'd learned - to our new relationship. Our relationship became much better than it ever had been before. So I think this may be the kind of thing they have in mind for David and Darlene.

 

OMG I LOVE your real life story!!! 💗  And yes, this is exactly what I think they are doing.   I hope I’m not wrong.  But with Sara Gilbert’s comment last season of her and Johnny’s “indescribable chemistry” and crying in the car when she thinks about David and Darlene.... I feel like she is as much as a shipper as I am, haha.   I too cry in the car when I think about them Sara!  😂

[CletusMusashi]

9 hours ago, mojoween said:

Was Harris even in or mentioned in this ep?  Not a complaint, just an observation.

Actually, if the lesbian couple don't want the chicken, they can adopt Harris.

[HeySandyStrange]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Adding Jerry and Andy to the show would just mean two more characters the show would need to figure out what to do with.  Neither were all that important anyway.  If The Connors has more then 10 or 11 episodes per season maybe.....but if the show did add a throw away line half the audience would expect to see them.   I don’t think either will ever be mentioned.  

I mean, Jerry and/or Andy wouldn’t need to become full time cast members; just have them visit once or twice a season. Or at least mention them. It’s just really weird that they are not mentioned much at all, or ever, in the case of Andy.

[CherryAmes]

I don't even care if they never show up we never really connected to them as characters the way we obviously did with Becky,  Darlene and DJ.  I would just like some throwaway comment to explain where they are.  As things stand I think we can all assume they never existed.   I really dislike it when shows do this.  

[BeachDays]

I am fine either way-  but it’s hard to wrap my head around either character.   Like Andy would be the most important person in Jackie’s life.    Jerry would have a close relationship with his parents especially bc the other siblings were pretty much grown up when he was born.   It’s just hard to visualize right now. 

[Pete Martell]

2 hours ago, BeachDays said:

I am fine either way-  but it’s hard to wrap my head around either character.   Like Andy would be the most important person in Jackie’s life.    Jerry would have a close relationship with his parents especially bc the other siblings were pretty much grown up when he was born.   It’s just hard to visualize right now. 

I could see Jerry not being very happy and wanting to leave - by the time he was born, Dan and Roseanne were older and were nowhere near as warm or loving as they'd been with the older kids. Becky would have her own life and dramas, then lost Mark. Darlene had her own dramas and moved away. DJ was nearly grown and moving more toward his own life. And if the Conners did have more money at this time, it sounds like it didn't last very long. So he got a lot of the worst and none of the best. 

If they get another season then I think bringing Jerry back for an episode would be good material, especially for Dan. 

I don't have that much interest in seeing Andy but I can understand why it annoys people, especially since they seem to struggle for Jackie's role on the show beyond the insanity of not showcasing Laurie Metcalf if you have her. 

[Pete Martell]

I was looking through old clips on Youtube and saw one from one of the Jackie and Dan episodes that a few people had talked about. It's such a beautifully written and acted scene - it's a shame that so much has overshadowed just how beautifully made that show was for a number of years. 

 

[jsbt]

Jerry was mentioned last season. I do wonder if he'll ever appear though, as I suspect initially they may have planned to have Roseanne's own son Buck reprise the role. That's obviously not happening.

I still think Andy exists but they have yet to address it, which is a mistake IMO.

I love that episode for many reasons, but the 'what might have been' thing is very much there for me with Dan and Jackie and very good. The issue is that episode was allegedly also a trial balloon for ABC to try to can Roseanne and leave John Goodman and Laurie Metcalf headlining the show. John and Laurie immediately went to Roseanne and said no way. Today, no, I think Dan and Jackie can never and should never happen. But that episode - wow.

[Pete Martell]

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

Jerry was mentioned last season. I do wonder if he'll ever appear though, as I suspect initially they may have planned to have Roseanne's own son Buck reprise the role. That's obviously not happening.

I still think Andy exists but they have yet to address it, which is a mistake IMO.

I love that episode for many reasons, but the 'what might have been' thing is very much there for me with Dan and Jackie and very good. The issue is that episode was allegedly also a trial balloon for ABC to try to can Roseanne and leave John Goodman and Laurie Metcalf headlining the show. John and Laurie immediately went to Roseanne and said no way. Today, no, I think Dan and Jackie can never and should never happen. But that episode - wow.

Apparently, if the Roseanne Wiki is any indication, it's John Goodman's favorite episode. 

http://roseanne.wikia.com/wiki/An_Officer_and_a_Gentleman

[jsbt]

That's interesting.

[HamSammich]

On 11/29/2018 at 7:54 AM, Ottis said:

I know. I've been part of those discussions. But my recollection is that, for the most part, in those earlier episodes Mark wore clothes out that were typical for a boy. At the mall gathering election comments, for instance, Mark was wearing pants/jeans (they were decorated, but they weren't a skirt).  The Halloween stuff doesn't count because it's Halloween. And it doesn't matter what he wears at home, as the family has addressed it. But to school? I know that schools are better at handling this than they were, but I lived in neighboring Indiana, have relatives there now and it would seem like wearing a skirt would be a step too far even for a school trying to be aware. I would have liked the show to have addressed this in passing at least. My fear is that, without at least some commentary, the show will make it a central issue when some schoolmate punches Mark over it. Ugh.

I teach in Seattle, WA and had a 4th grade student (two years ago) that was biologically male but identified as female. He wore a lovely long haired wig and a skirt to school on most days. Overall, his peers and the school staff were kind and very accepting. The adults in the outside community...not so much.  

I’m loving this show and weighing in with a hard no on Dan and Jackie.  Ditto for reuniting Darlene and David. 

[peacheslatour]

*Waves at HamSammich from across the lake.*

[Commando Cody]

On 11/28/2018 at 12:44 AM, Racj82 said:

It feels like it's illegal to even suggest the father involved in conception have any rights or be able to share in the decision making.

I believe, if the mother wants to give the child up, the father can take the baby. Both parents have to sign the adoption papers. At least in my state.  If the mother really doesn't want to raise the baby, the father or the family of the father can raise the baby. 

I think it is a little problematic that there has been no further discussion with the father. It was like he disappeared.  If he ran off, they could have easily written a line that said he took off. It would be weird if he shows up for the birth or something after not being seen on the show again till then. 

I think the way the lesbian slammed the door on Becky after she agreed to let them have the baby was pretty telling. Becky would have been shut out after.  It was a bad idea to begin with. I think they were taking advantage of her situation. It was better to do it now, than to have them go through the whole pregnancy and then have Becky change her mind. People change their minds about adoption all the time. It's heartbreaking, but at least they didn't almost get a live baby. They had a prospect of a baby. Becky decided against it.

I found that the 5th season of Bojack Horseman had a good arc on adoption. It does kind of touch on the struggles of having children. 

[lookeyloo]

On 11/28/2018 at 7:07 PM, bunnyblue said:

Last episode I weirded myself out by thinking Dan & Jackie were acting like an old married couple. In this episode, I was worried some awkwardness would ensue during their conversation in the back yard, especially when they hugged. It's not unheard of for in-laws to fall for each other when their wife/sister/husband/brother dies. Am I crazy, or is anyone else getting these weird vibes?

I don't know about Dan and Jackie, but, when my mother died, my father and her sister, my aunt, got married.  It was a huge mistake for them.  They never liked each other but he thought he needed a wife to do wifely things and she thought my mother had a good life.   Why after all those years of Jackie/Dan type of closeness, my father and aunt didn't figure out the Big Mistake is beyond us.  My brothers and her son were horrified.  It did not last long.  Aunt got ulcer, my father couldn't understand why she wouldn't cook (she couldn't, and didn't like to, didn't he know?)  Messy divorce.  Then my father married a woman who did take care of him, and my aunt and father and that wife made peace and they sometimes travelled to family events.  It was too funny for us.  We called the women "Sam's girls".  Way past girls, they were old ladies.  But funny after all the dust settled.

[Caseysgirl]

Perhaps it’s because I’m aware of Sarah Gilbert’s sexual orientation and knowing of the way Darlene interacted with David, I’m not getting any chemistry  between Ben & Darlenei. It just seems awkward to see her acting girly and flirtatious with him.

[BeachDays]

3 hours ago, Caseysgirl said:

Perhaps it’s because I’m aware of Sarah Gilbert’s sexual orientation and knowing of the way Darlene interacted with David, I’m not getting any chemistry  between Ben & Darlenei. It just seems awkward to see her acting girly and flirtatious with him.

 

Thats how I feel lol, I’m just like lalalalala, where’s David lol 

[Meushell]

Maybe the lesbian couple can adopt Andrea’s baby. She seemed seriously unhappy about having one, not just venting because being a parent was harder than she expected. 

[jhlipton]

On 11/27/2018 at 5:50 PM, Stacey1014 said:

This episode was great. I especially loved the Darlene and Becky and Dan and Jackie scenes. Lol at Jackie wanting to bring the chicken home to see if Bev is truly afraid of birds. 

As was posted above, it was "deathly afraid".  That's what sold the joke.

On 11/27/2018 at 6:23 PM, UYI said:

I did like their conversation when he visited her at the casino, though.

That was worth it for Darlene mocking him: "What? No.  What? No!"

On 11/27/2018 at 7:57 PM, Dee said:

Becky referring to Darlene as a judgemental little troll to Darlene's face automatically makes this a great episode.

I loved that Darlene took "judgmental little troll" as a dcompliment!

On 11/28/2018 at 7:51 AM, DXD526 said:

"Marrying" the ketchup bottles at a Mexican restaurant? Shouldn't they be "marrying" the hot sauce?

This is a "Mexican" restaurant in SmallTown, Ohio Illinois (thanks, @UYI).  They're much more likely to have ketsup than hot sauce!   (But what does "marrying" ketsup or hotsauce mean?)

Edited December 3, 2018 by jhlipton
Illinois is not Ohio

[UYI]

9 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

This is a "Mexican" restaurant in SmallTown, Ohio.  They're much more likely to have ketsup than hot sauce!   (But what does "marrying" ketsup or hotsauce mean?)

*Illinois

And I think marrying the ketchup bottles means putting the bottles on top of each other to even out the amount in both of them. 

[Nordly Beaumont]

7 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

(But what does "marrying" ketsup or hotsauce mean?)

You put a partially used ketchup bottle on top of another to pour one into the other so you have a full bottle. And restaurants aren't supposed to do it because you can end up with very old product that's just being poured back and forth.

[jhlipton]

1 minute ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

You put a partially used ketchup bottle on top of another to pour one into the other so you have a full bottle. And restaurants aren't supposed to do it because you can end up with very old product that's just being poured back and forth.

Perfect for Lanford, then!  LOL

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

You put a partially used ketchup bottle on top of another to pour one into the other so you have a full bottle. And restaurants aren't supposed to do it because you can end up with very old product that's just being poured back and forth.

I know, right? Yuk! Glad I don't like ketchup. If I remember correctly from my long-ago fast food days, there were even devices that facilitated the balancing and draining.

[jsbt]

LOL I'm so late on this:

Mark telling Dan "I have no way to pay forward the love you give me!" (and getting snaps from Geena while the others applauded) was hilarious. As was him picking up after Becky and trading barbs with her, proving he's not all daisies and light. This is why I think super-sunny, optimistic Mark who is so unlike the children Dan and Roseanne raised works as a contrast to the others; he is articulate and mostly happy because of Darlene's parenting and his somewhat oblivious take on their attitudes and worldview counters the others well. (And he's likely to hit some harsh realities in Lanford in potential future seasons as he comes into his own identity more.)

I wish Crystal had stayed happily retired but if it means giving more airtime to Natalie West I get it - some retired people do get bored fast. I was pleased to see the casino back because I was worried the new job at the paper meant they were going to fluff off Darlene's prior job entirely; part of what I loved about the original series was the running plot threads of the Conners' ongoing work struggles. Roseanne at Wellman, the beauty shop, the mall, the Lunch Box, etc.* were all different phases of her life; same with Dan and the slow failure of the bike shop. They may have had Darlene quit the casino by making Ben give her benefits, but they closed the thread out from one season to the next. Seeing these kind of ongoing threads continue with Darlene and presumably Becky in future is great.

I do love Ben, and Jay R. Ferguson is always so hot and talented in any show or film he does. He is clearly meant to be the anti-David, but he also heavily channeled Dan this week, as many have said. I do hope he's not just a romantic obstacle for a possible Darlene and David reunion, or if he is that he is a fairly longterm one. They don't have Johnny Galecki for much for at least another year and I think I may prefer Ben at this stage of Darlene's life.

Dan had some great lines. "Like many accomplished men, I was up knocking cats off my chicken coop with a broom." And telling D.J. he broke his wrist walking across a room and they weren't going to give him a treehouse. And the Dan/Jackie stuff was actually pretty astutely sensitive.

I liked the exploration of the Darlene/Becky relationship. It's become much more important now (and to a certain extent last season) than it's been since the early seasons of the original show, but it's also inverted from what it once was - Becky is now the screw-up by virtue of how her life has gone, and Darlene is the relatively together guiding force. This was not the case when they were kids and young teens, and it's also fascinating seeing Becky kind of become the early Jackie opposite Darlene's Roseanne. I also feel it's true to both characters since for better or worse, once Becky married Mark, for as much as they loved each other her life and future completely derailed. She was working a Hooters-type job as early as Season 7 or something. But now she has some hope for the future both as a woman and a mother, and I do love Lecy Goranson's performance with Sara Gilbert as well as the devastating shot of her looking through the lesbians' window as she left.

Lecy also delivers the most cold lines so well. "Just walk away from him! The baby's not gonna find you!" I cackled.

More Geena, please! They've had a lot to juggle this season in addition to adding a new regular considering they threw this show together basically overnight, so hopefully if there is a renewal (and knock on wood I think there will be) they'll dig deeper with her.

(* - speaking of work, since it was mentioned, there is no evidence the Lunch Box has been retconned out of existence. The lottery certainly was, but that was already happening as of the terrible series finale in Season 9. They basically forgot about the Lunch Box in the last season or two anyway IIRC. The open Andy question is another mystery entirely, lol)

Edited December 4, 2018 by jsbt

[UYI]

3 hours ago, jsbt said:

I liked the exploration of the Darlene/Becky relationship. It's become much more important now (and to a certain extent last season) than it's been since the early seasons of the original show, but it's also inverted from what it once was - Becky is now the screw-up by virtue of how her life has gone, and Darlene is the relatively together guiding force. This was not the case when they were kids and young teens, and it's also fascinating seeing Becky kind of become the early Jackie opposite Darlene's Roseanne. I also feel it's true to both characters since for better or worse, once Becky married Mark, for as much as they loved each other her life and future completely derailed. She was working a Hooters-type job as early as Season 7 or something.

 

The Christmas episode of season 6, to be exact. 

[Jacqs]

On 11/30/2018 at 5:46 AM, methodwriter85 said:

Natasha Leggero said that the original idea was for Mark to be transgender, but they decided to settle on Mark being nongenderconforming but identified male instead. I think it was the right call- you can see the actor's starting to get taller, and it reminds me of the reverse of the situation they had on Degrassi. There was a character that was playing a transitioning transgender male, but the actress playing him was a young woman blossoming into womanhood and it just started looking awkward.

@methodwriter85 That bit of Degrassi was horrible. It was all too obvious that the actress was a teenage girl, not a trans boy, and it was also pretty obvious to the audience that she was "all tits and lipstick" off-set.

[Camera One]

This episode was alright.  I did like Becky and Darlene's scene.  They made the couple who wanted the baby seem shady and opportunistic, which was needless.

I get where they were trying to go with the chicken storyline but I didn't find it funny.  Jackie seemed way too pushy and obnoxious.

I still feel zero chemistry between Darlene and her boss so I didn't enjoy that subplot either.