S06.E08: Flesh Wounds Are Not Five-Star

[snarts]

11 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I don't know, if I was a parent and someone like Caroline was grabbing my children's heads and smothering them with kisses, I'd feel the need to slap them away. Not to mention she kept mentioning she thought she was getting sick and doing a gag-inducing cough? Get thee the fuck away from my children, you verklempt hypochondriac. 

This. Plus, she's a smoker. That poor child.

[BodhiGurl]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

I was wondering if the primaries could have simply gone around and given tips directly to those they wanted to tip, that's what I would have done at that point in time, given all the fuck ups. I honestly dont understand why Captain Lee doesn't dock some of them their tips when their performance and behavior is abysmal.

Last night Mr. Gingerella said he didn't think he could watch this show anymore because it's become so insufferable, and then Kate uttered "Flesh wounds are not five-star" and I said, 'This is why I watch this show now, for the Kate quips.' Honestly, she and Josaih are the only reason to watch.

As for who goes home, it's a toss up between Chandler, Rhylee and Caroline, and as much as I want it to be Chandler, I think Caroline is more of a liability because she's batshit crazy and is the sort to make up shit and try to sue someone. And I dont buy the excuse that Captain hasnt fired Chandler because it's hard to get a bosun to come to Tahiti...the fuck?!? Any good bosun would probably wet themselves to go to Tahiti even if its as a replacement. Hell, I'd rather see asshole Eddie than this Chandler twerp. Chandler definitely has an issue with women in authority positions, how sad in this day and age. I wonder if his father did as well because he seems to indicate that he got everything he knows from dear old dad.

I'm pretty sure 51 Minds, the production company behind BD, are the ones hiring the "talent" we see on tv... I don't think Capn Lee has as much pull with firing them as he would if he was running his own boat. They probably have a slim list of backups they can pull from if someone truly needs to be given the boot - then they have to get them there b4 he can "Fire" someone on camera. All that babble said - given he wanted a witness with Chandler, my guess is Chandler will no longer be Bosun, whether that means fired or demoted... time shall tell (I am curious why we saw Chandler in his deck crew garb in the previews, unless that was thrown in there from a previous episode to throw us all off). I have to believe Caroline gets the ol' boot too, I can't imagine Kate threatening to leave over Rhylee (the whole pre-season preview of "either she goes, or I go" lends itself to having one of the female cast getting their plane ticket home).  I think if Capn Lee truly had hiring/firing responsibility, without having to go through production, Chandler and Caroline would have been gone by now...

Edited November 21, 2018 by BodhiGurl
I didn't realize I repeated my line about babbling - ha ha... I was too busy babbling... deleted one of 'em

[100Proof]

Shoulda known better than to expect anything of substance from Capeetan Lee. All bark and no bite. "What a clusterfukk, you guys need to pull your weight and do better."  I doubt the guy has the authority to do anything about any of the crew short of one of them pulling out an assault weapon.

It's all set up for Chandler getting fired and sent home but it'll be another, "you need to do better" speech.

The bit where Kate is saying through the door, "We need you off the boat in one hour"  probably turns out that whoever is in there needs to be ready in an hour to go pick up some pizzas before they get cold, lol

I dunno, but ever since laying eyes on Kate, I be damned that if she was sporting a single eyeball in the middle of her head that she would look exactly like Leela from Futurama, lol

Edited November 21, 2018 by 100Proof

[mcjen]

12 minutes ago, gingerella said:

I was wondering if the primaries could have simply gone around and given tips directly to those they wanted to tip, that's what I would have done at that point in time, given all the fuck ups.  I honestly dont understand why Captain Lee doesn't dock some of them their tips when their performance and behavior is abysmal.

I considered this issue with the first BD episode I ever saw and decided right away that "equal-shares-for-all, unless-you-get-a-ticket-home" might be the only way to do this to avoid endless squabbles.  On any given charter, any single crew member might have an off-day or operate at less than their best; we've even seen crew members be waylaid by illness or injury for an entire charter. Nevertheless, all are given equal shares.  Sometimes, if a crew person has been absent for an entire charter, I'd like to think they might have the honesty to split up their share with the rest of the crew for covering them while they were down (have we ever seen that done?)  However, if it fell upon the captain to try to assess who deserved less tip, and by how much, for each and every charter, I think it would lead to all kinds of nastiness.  How much do you have to screw up to rate a penalty?  What's an understandable error versus an honest-to-god fubar?  Is there a sliding scale for penalties?  If someone messed up but it didn't come to the captain's attention, would it lead to crew members constantly trying to rat each other out in order to gain a larger slice of the pie?

[Jextella]

3 hours ago, fifty8th said:

I wish he had some for the last few episodes but I am glad he is back with this one. One of the reason, it seems, that Chandler is not gone yet is that Tahiti is more remote and finding replacements harder.

The Chandler section:

Captain Lee's Take on what went down in episode 8

3 hours ago, fifty8th said:

So let get on to Chandler. You have had freedom to manage and work your crew however you chose. But that is obviously not working for you. Why do you suppose that you are apologizing to almost everyone a lot? Do you not see that it’s because of all the mistakes that you are committing. You want to leave the boat first thing in the am to setup the beach dinner, but what are the guests to do all day while you’re doing that? No toys out, no activities for them to stay occupied while your doing the beach runs. Planning is what is not happening here and that is part of your job. After the meeting in the wheelhouse, your first response is to communicate to your crew is how this is making you look.  Well here’s a news flash, they didn’t do that to you, and you did it to yourself. It really pissed you off when you had to answer to Kate for a few hours after the beach dinner.  And you tell her that you’ll get to a task when you can. And why when we needed to go get the guests from the dock, didn’t you take the lead on that. Isn’t that what leaders do. The leftover roast pork, you were asked to find some containers to put it in to preserve it, but you just arbitrarily override that instruction and throw it away. Oh I get it, pissed because you didn’t get your ice cream on time. Time to suck it up cream puff. You don’t always get what you want, when you want it, just because you want it. I’m surprised I didn’t see a hissy fit thrown. This is wearing thin. A shame to see such talent wasted sir.

5

 

 

 

I think most agree that Chandler and Caroline are out of their element.  I personally toss Riley in there as well.  She deserved a lot of what she got.  All 3 need to leave ASAP, IMO,   

But, I'm going to toss out what is likely an unpopular opinion.   I don't think either Captain Lee or Kate are good managers - at least based on what Bravo shows us.  You can't just say "I don't like babysitting" (Captain Lee) and bark orders (Kate) and assume all is going to run with pure efficiency.  First of all, people aren't robots and they come with different skills and abilities.  Second is that there is a reason they aren't captains or stews themselves.  They either aren't suited to it or don't yet have the skill for it.  It seems like common sense that they will, at some point, need guidance, and it's up to managers to provide it.   Captain Lee's snippet about Chandler says a lot.  It seems clear the whole day was scheduled incorrectly.  Captain Lee should have noticed this, said something, and then worked with Chandler on a revised plan from the get-go.  He waited until after the day was over to bitch when, as a manager, he (and Kate) should have seen the mistakes at the beginning of the day and ensured they were fixed.

Some of this could be Bravo telling the captains and chief stews not to over-manage so that drama ensues.  Some of this could mean I don't quite understand the yachting world.  But for me, in the real world, it seems like a no-brainer.  

If deck hands screw up, it comes down on the bosun.  If the bosun screws up, it should come down on the captain.  Same with the stews.

-------

Oh, and I wonder if there will be a reunion.   Reunions often provide an opportunity for the cast to discuss their mistakes, work out differences, etc., but I tend to think Chandler, Caroline, and Riley are too far gone for that.   It'd be a puddle of oil and water and a reunion would be sort of pointless. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Jextella

[100Proof]

7 hours ago, jkitty said:

I would have been very upset by this as a parent. I do not let strangers touch - let alone kiss - my child. I don’t even let family members hug or kiss my kid without asking her first  and getting her permission.

Ok, the first sentence is fairly normal. The second pretty neurotic and cuckoo.  Then again I came from a large italian family and a time long before the media drummed in the hysteria that every kid is gonna be abducted the second you take your eyes off them, lol

Edited November 21, 2018 by 100Proof

[ghoulina]

6 hours ago, Skycatcher said:

 Didn't the Captain order the deck crew back?  I remember thinking that was odd when I heard him do it. But there's no way I can watch that shitshow again to verify my impression.

ETA: OK, I  Went back and found the Captain's radio, at 32 minutes in......

 "Chandler, Chandler, Lee.........I want you and everybody else in the boats to head back now.....leave 'em (the guests) there on the beach, I'm sending vans to pick 'em up."

When asked by Ross if they hould double check that nothing is... [garbled],  Chandler says "No, leave everything. Let's just get back."

But I would think one of them could have returned in the van to help Kate clean up the beach? Captain just wanted those tenders back before it got dark. I thought that was his main point. But with Chandler there's no room for creative problem solving or taking the initiative. 

 

3 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

They also showed a tube of chapstick in the washer or dryer, so not only is she misplacing the clothes, but she's not checking pockets and ruining them too.  

I kept waiting for the fallout of that Chapstick in the wash. 

4 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

Ok, the first sentence is normal. The second pretty neurotic and cuckoo.  Then again I came from a large italian family and a time long before the media drummed in the hysteria that every kid is gonna be abducted the second you take your eyes off them, lol

I come from a family where someone who lived in my home molested me for 4 years of my life. So it's very important to me that my children know their body is theirs and theirs alone. No one, related or not, has the right to touch them without their permission.

[Kickboxer]

Just watched this and ran back here to read everyone's thoughts! I am SO disappointed that we didn't get to see Chandler being fired at the crew mess right after the charter in front of everyone. The previews have me fearing that it is Rhylee who is sent to leave in an hour, after she gets wasted on crew night out, maybe Kate makes some little bitchy remark and Rhylee smacked Kate on the back of the head, prompting it. I'd rather see Caroline leave, as oddly interesting as watching her meltdown is, it can't be good for her as a human. 

[Jextella]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

But I would think one of them could have returned in the van to help Kate clean up the beach? Captain just wanted those tenders back before it got dark. I thought that was his main point. But with Chandler there's no room for creative problem solving or taking the initiative. 

I kept waiting for the fallout of that Chapstick in the wash. 

I come from a family where someone who lived in my home molested me for 4 years of my life. So it's very important to me that my children know their body is theirs and theirs alone. No one, related or not, has the right to touch them without their permission.

1

OMG, Ghoulina.  That is horrible.  How does one survive that?  My mom went to a "ranch" for overeating.  During family visits, there was a young woman whose father molested her.  It was devastating.  Sexual abuse is such an invasion, I can't wrap my head around it.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Jextella

[100Proof]

27 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I come from a family where someone who lived in my home molested me for 4 years of my life. So it's very important to me that my children know their body is theirs and theirs alone. No one, related or not, has the right to touch them without their permission.

Of course you have a very good reason to be extremely wary and cautious. Its a tragedy and I have zero sympathy for those abusing the innocence of children.  However, I'm not talking about 'let uncle bob watch the kids for a day' thing if you have suspicions or signs.  I'm talking about family get togethers where it's perfectly natural for all family members to greet each other with hugs and kisses. Now unless you actually know that there's a particular family member or friend to shun for some reason, they shouldn't be invited in the first place. But to simply be averse for no rhyme or reason to be greeting family members in that manner is a bit bizarre

 

"Hello Mudda, Hello Faddah"

Dearest Fadduh, Darling Muddah,
How's my precious, little bruddah?
Let me come home if you miss me.
I would even let Aunt Bertha hug and kiss me!"

;-D

Edited November 21, 2018 by 100Proof

[biakbiak]

35 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

Ok, the first sentence is fairly normal. The second pretty neurotic and cuckoo.  Then again I came from a large italian family and a time long before the media drummed in the hysteria that every kid is gonna be abducted the second you take your eyes off them, lol

 

Teaching children body autonomy regardless of the relationship to the person is not cuckoo and is standard amongst everyone e I know with children. You aren’t owed a hug or kiss from anyone nor should you be required to give one of you don’t feel like it.

Chandler is so bad at reading a situation. He should be doing every thing to not antagonize Kate not only because it makes the ship run smoothly if they work well together but because Captain Lee adores and more importantly respects her opinion. The fact that he slacked off and talked back to her after she was put in charge of telling the deck crew what to do would have caused anyone with a modicum of sense to want to do a good job for her and so that when Lee asked her opinion of him she would give good feedback!

Edited November 21, 2018 by biakbiak

[Juneau Gal]

13 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

Of course have a very good reason to be extremely wary and cautious. However, I'm not talking about 'let uncle bob watch the kids for a day' thing if you have suspicions or signs.  I'm talking about family get togethers where it's perfectly natural for all family members to greet each other with hugs and kisses. Now unless you actually know that there's a particular family member to shun for some reason, they shouldn't be invited in the first place. But to simply be averse for no rhyme or reason to be greeting family members in that manner is a bit bizarre

 

"Hello Mudda, Hello Faddah"

Dearest Fadduh, Darling Muddah,
How's my precious, little bruddah?
Let me come home if you miss me.
I would even let Aunt Bertha hug and kiss me!"

;-D

Going to echo what has already been said above so perhaps it will be understood this time: children must be allowed autonomy over their own bodies. This means auntie and grannie and cousin ask or wait for the child to initiate before coming in for the hug or kiss. 

[Neurochick]

Chandler is The Peter Principle  personified.

Caroline isn’t creepy, kissing the little boy on the forehead, but she should not have done so, because people have different boundaries.  

Then again, how high can your boundaries be if you’re on a reality show, and are allowing your minor children’s faces to be shown on said show?  

However, Caroline should have stayed by the broken glass to warn the guests until they were onboard.

The woman Chandler “dropped “ was probably three sheets to the wind, still he should have apologized, just because she was a guest.

Chandler and Caroline both need to hook up with each other and then leave the boat, period.  And no, they don’t get their own reality show.  Yuk. 

As for the guests, they probably got this trip for free, so I would be happy about everything too.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Neurochick

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, Jextella said:

But, I'm going to toss out what is likely an unpopular opinion.   I don't think either Captain Lee or Kate are good managers - at least based on what Bravo shows us.  You can't just say "I don't like babysitting" (Captain Lee) and bark orders (Kate) and assume all is going to run with pure efficiency.  First of all, people aren't robots and they come with different skills and abilities.  Second is that there is a reason they aren't captains or stews themselves.  They either aren't suited to it or don't yet have the skill for it.  It seems like common sense that they will, at some point, need guidance, and it's up to managers to provide it.   Captain Lee's snippet about Chandler says a lot.  It seems clear the whole day was scheduled incorrectly.  Captain Lee should have noticed this, said something, and then work with Chandler on a revised plan from the get-go.  He waited until after the day was over to bitch when, as a manager, he (and Kate) should have seen the mistakes at the beginning of the day and ensured they were fixed.

 

I'll partially agree with you. Kate loves a clique and she lives to belittle people. I've long thought that her checklists, which she really started stressing in season 3, were her way of making sure she got her point across while minimizing her exposure to people who bugged the shit out of her so that she wouldn't come across as such a hosebeast. So I think that's part of her management mechanism. But the thing she truly hates are delusional people who think they are more skilled or harder working than they actually are. She can't manage to suppress her disdain for people like that. I don't think Kate thinks Caroline is delusional, but you can see that Kate senses that Caroline doesn't have the emotional fortitude for the job.

Captain Lee is more prescriptive the worse the bosun is. He was fairly prescriptive with Nico and he's done more or less the same with Chandler. When he sat down with Chandler about the plans for the beach pig roast, he did tell Chandler to set up the toys first and then move on to setting up the pig roast. I've thought that he was terrible with Kelley. Kelley wasn't so horrible that he needed Captain Lee to walk him through every step. However, Kelley wasn't so skilled that Lee could be completely hands off either. Lee seemed to just give Kelley generic advice that never solved anything. Lee was his absolute worst when he had to bring EJ in, but never clarified with the entire deck crew that EJ was who they needed to listen to. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by HunterHunted

[100Proof]

Just now, biakbiak said:

Teaching children body autonomy regardless of the relationship to the person is not cuckoo and is standard amongst everyone e I know with children. You aren’t owed a hug or kiss from anyone.

There's a difference between teaching these things to children but then also exhibiting neurotic behavior. Helicopter parenting comes to mind off the top of mt head. There's been plenty of psychology studies on this as well as other parental behavior and the general negative effects on child development. So please don't correlate the good things to be teaching a child along with parenting that takes that concept way too much overboard.

Anyway, I'm finished as this is not whats this thread is about, Flame on if you must!  :)

[100Proof]

19 minutes ago, Juneau Gal said:

Going to echo what has already been said above so perhaps it will be understood this time: children must be allowed autonomy over their own bodies. This means auntie and grannie and cousin ask or wait for the child to initiate before coming in for the hug or kiss. 

Okay... one last thing.

For goodness sake. This is way overboard. Auntie and Granny. GRANNY????!!! Good god, no wonder we have a generation of whiny fragile self entitled sheltered narcissistic sjw brats. And I'm a flaming progressive liberal! lol

Edited November 21, 2018 by 100Proof

[biakbiak]

5 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

Okay... one last thing.

For goodness sake. This is way overboard. Auntie and Granny. GRANNY????!!! Good god, no wonder we have a generation of whiny fragile self entitled sheltered narcissistic sjw brats. And I'm a flaming progressive liberal! lol

Yes even grandparents. And only total asshole grandparents that I know have an issue with setting those boundaries because 9 times out of 10 the child is going to chose to initiate/agree to contact because they feel safe with that person. It does nothing to create self entitlement or shelter them in fact it is the exact opposite. 

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, 100Proof said:

Ok, the first sentence is fairly normal. The second pretty neurotic and cuckoo.  Then again I came from a large italian family and a time long before the media drummed in the hysteria that every kid is gonna be abducted the second you take your eyes off them, lol

 

Thank you for saying this.  Not everyone was molested as a child.  However, people have different boundaries for whatever reasons.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Neurochick

[100Proof]

20 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Yes even grandparents. And only total asshole grandparents that I know have an issue with setting those boundaries because 9 times out of 10 the child is going to chose to initiate/agree to contact because they feel safe with that person. It does nothing to create self entitlement or shelter them in fact it is the exact opposite. 

Hey I'm not gonna deny that there are some pretty cold fish unloving asshole parents who then become grandparents out there and sadly that's an unfortunate thing to be part of. I have friends and other people I've come across who hate or don't get along at all with their brothers or sisters and quite frankly I don't get it because me and mine all get along and love each other despite of our individual politics or religious beliefs, even with all  my cousins. Sure my dad was an asshole...and asshole who loved me but still an asshole...plus my grandparent on his side were a bit challenging, lol...But that didn't deter anything else.  My moms side had the big eyetalian fam.  :-D

 

Anyway....Chandler sucks!

Edited November 21, 2018 by 100Proof

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, 100Proof said:

Of course you have a very good reason to be extremely wary and cautious. Its a tragedy and I have zero sympathy for those abusing the innocence of children.  However, I'm not talking about 'let uncle bob watch the kids for a day' thing if you have suspicions or signs.  I'm talking about family get togethers where it's perfectly natural for all family members to greet each other with hugs and kisses. Now unless you actually know that there's a particular family member or friend to shun for some reason, they shouldn't be invited in the first place. But to simply be averse for no rhyme or reason to be greeting family members in that manner is a bit bizarre

It's about body autonomy. It's about letting children know, from day one, that THEY are in charge of their bodies. Often children who are molested by family members have this sense of feeling like they HAVE to go along. It's not right to speak out. I want my kids to know that if ANYTHING, any little thing, feels "off" or "not good" to them, that they can say so. 

I have no issues with my current family members. We're all actually super close. And we hug and kiss and all of that. My overall point, though, is I don't force my kids. If grandma is asking for a hug goodbye and my kid says, "no", I make sure they honor that.

Kids have to learn that they CAN say "no". That's my point. 

Honestly, I'm more concerned by allowing family members too much grace in that regard than I am over Caroline kissing that kid. It was creepy and overstepping her bounds, for sure. But it's often the people we don't think we need to be wary around that are the ones that cross that line. 

 

And no one has to act "cuckoo" or "neurotic" about it. If someone said, "Give granny a hug goodbye" and my child said, "no" and granny then wrapped him up in a hug, I'd nicely ask her to respect my child's wishes not to hug at this time. I've actually done something like this before and it was fine. No one thought I was acting weird.  I once had to tell my FIL to stop tickling my middle child, because he wasn't listening to my child saying, "no". I don't think Grandpa is a molester. Far from it. But I want my kids to know that they can start telling people "no" when it comes to their bodies NOW. And I want them to know I'll back them up. 

42 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

The woman Chandler “dropped “ was probably three sheets to the wind, still he should have apologized, just because she was a guest.

That's the main issue here. He doesn't treat the guests like they are GUESTS. On a luxury yacht. I don't care if it's no one's fault. Just apologize profusely, make sure any injuries are tended to, and help her the rest of the way to the beach. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by ghoulina

[Juneau Gal]

31 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

Okay... one last thing.

For goodness sake. This is way overboard. Auntie and Granny. GRANNY????!!! Good god, no wonder we have a generation of whiny fragile self entitled sheltered narcissistic sjw brats. And I'm a flaming progressive liberal! lol

A member of this board bravely wrote that they were molested by a person who lived in their house, people have responded repeatedly to educate you on this, and your go to is to remark that we are going overboard and hurl invectives at a generation of people that seemingly do not live up to your standards. Please read and understand what people are writing and count yourself very lucky to have grown up in a family where these things were not an issue. Or at least not an issue that you knew about. 

[100Proof]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

It's about body autonomy. It's about letting children know, from day one, that THEY are in charge of their bodies. If someone said, "Give granny a hug goodbye" and my child said, "no" and granny then wrapped him up in a hug, I'd nicely ask her to respect my child's wishes not to hug at this time.

Again. no problem with that.  However the second bit I just find rather petty behavior. It's why I consider it overboard behavior. Understand who's the child and who's the adult. Now if this all loving granny says, 'aw, why not you sweet little angel of mine...granny's gonna cry' and laughingly goes in for a hug and kiss anyway.  That should not be taught to be construed and mixed up with the serious matter off someone who is not a close personal family member doing the same !

[scenicbyway]

I wonder if Caroline went off some anxiety meds while taking the meds for her foot?  She is spiraling.  It takes maybe 10 minutes to squeeze and serve oj.  Serve the juice, grab the bread, call for backup.  Ugh.

 

Chandler does have a problem with women in authority or otherwise.  If he’s pining for the good old days working with his dad, go back to them!  Only work for your dad!

 

Props to Capt Lee for putting Kate in charge, there is no reason they should’ve been left to tear down that party.  And Kate’s right, if Chandler doesn’t get why she’s in charge of him that night, he’ll never get it.

 

I think Chandler may get fired but I think Rhylee or Caroline will do something even dumber and get sent home.

 

Why didn’t Caroline pickup the glass she could see and then get a broom or vacuum?

[100Proof]

28 minutes ago, Juneau Gal said:

A member of this board bravely wrote that they were molested by a person who lived in their house, people have responded repeatedly to educate you on this, and your go to is to remark that we are going overboard and hurl invectives at a generation of people that seemingly do not live up to your standards. Please read and understand what people are writing and count yourself very lucky to have grown up in a family where these things were not an issue. Or at least not an issue that you knew about. 

Please reread and comprehend what I've been saying more better, thanks. :)

Edited November 21, 2018 by 100Proof

[nenya]

This is the first episode that has made me mad.

First of all, the primaries were LOVELY people. If I, or anyone else I know, got cut by broken glass because the crew was being inept (along with being abandoned) I would have been furious. But these parents took it calmly, took control, and still thanked the crew.

A successful charter requires both sides. Deckhands don't just handle the toys, just like the interior is not just glorified housekeepers. I don't understand how Chandler doesn't get that.

Chandler - you suck. I understand why the Captain wanted both deckhands to navigate the boat back. But he could have said "okay, let's get the deckhands with the vans and go help" That was ridiculous that he left Kate and Josiah alone to do all the hard clean up. And then for you to roll up your sleeves and help, and try to pull some rank bullshit on Kate? He really does have a problem with women, and with authority. Well, then maybe don't work on a yacht! And don't work in the service industry. 

Also, you had a notebook with you with the Captain told you he wanted toys out and then for you to start setting up. How did you miss that part? What were you expecting the guests to do during that time? 

Caroline - if you can't handle things, why not ask Kate or Josiah to give you a little training between charters? I've asked co-workers who did well in something to walk me through their process. I never understand not trying to better yourself. Also, if you can't get the guests things quickly, but you can give them a reasonable alternative, I think most will understand. For example, when they wanted the drinks, just say "I'll get the food up, then the juices, then the drinks if that works for you." Now they know their plan, you have time, and everyone is likely happy. Also, this is one of the few seasons where I don't see the interior prepping juice and coffee early in the morning. 

Also, many kids don't like being grabbed and forcefully kissed. Don't do that. My nieces love me, but one is definitely not a snuggler. I respect that, and let her come to me when she wants extra hugs. 

I hope they both get fired. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by nenya

[scenicbyway]

2 hours ago, Jextella said:

I think most agree that Chandler and Caroline are out of their element.  I personally toss Riley in there as well.  She deserved a lot of what she got.  All 3 need to leave ASAP, IMO,   

But, I'm going to toss out what is likely an unpopular opinion.   I don't think either Captain Lee or Kate are good managers - at least based on what Bravo shows us.  You can't just say "I don't like babysitting" (Captain Lee) and bark orders (Kate) and assume all is going to run with pure efficiency.  First of all, people aren't robots and they come with different skills and abilities.  Second is that there is a reason they aren't captains or stews themselves.  They either aren't suited to it or don't yet have the skill for it.  It seems like common sense that they will, at some point, need guidance, and it's up to managers to provide it.   Captain Lee's snippet about Chandler says a lot.  It seems clear the whole day was scheduled incorrectly.  Captain Lee should have noticed this, said something, and then worked with Chandler on a revised plan from the get-go.  He waited until after the day was over to bitch when, as a manager, he (and Kate) should have seen the mistakes at the beginning of the day and ensured they were fixed.

Some of this could be Bravo telling the captains and chief stews not to over-manage so that drama ensues.  Some of this could mean I don't quite understand the yachting world.  But for me, in the real world, it seems like a no-brainer.  

If deck hands screw up, it comes down on the bosun.  If the bosun screws up, it should come down on the captain.  Same with the stews.

-------

Lee set out what the plan was with Chandler first thing in the morning.  Get the toys out then set up the picnic.  Chandler is the one who immediately muddled it to setup the picnic.  Lee saw this and reminded Chandler to put out the toys first. Lee is having to micromanage Chandler.  A bosun should be able to take a direct order and communicate it to the crew and execute it.  There is nothing wrong with Lee’s management style.

 

Kate is constantly telling Caroline what to do, Caroline does nothing but dramatize everything.  How about paying attention to Kate as she makes the 500 th Bloody Mary?  Maybe pick up on how to do it?  Kate is catty but she knows how to get things done.

[Neurochick]

Chandler not only disrespected Kate, he disrespected Captain Lee.  Captain Lee told Kate that the deck crew was at her disposal because he didn’t think that Chandler would take the whole deck crew back with him, leaving no one to help Kate and Josiah, so to make up for that, the captain had the deck crew help Kate out.  

[Mindthinkr]

Even the Seasick Stew on BDM learned to get all the juices done before the guests got to the table. One of the few things that Hannah had taught her. Hasn’t Caroline even seen this series so she has a clue about what her job looks like and what skills she might need to brush up on? She doesn’t seem well equipped to handle life, let alone this job. I think she’s going to get an airline ticket. 

[langford peel]

It looked to me that when the glass shattered it broke right next to the stairs that goes to the back of the boat where you get off the tenders. Maybe some very small particles not visible to the naked eye went to departure deck and the child stepped on it and got injured.

But you know what? It doesn’t matter. Caroline’s incompetence got a child injured. You can certainly breake a glass but you have to secure the area so that the guests are safe. Especially children?

She needed to get fired immediately. Do not pass go. Do not collect unearned tip. Get out.

[njbchlover]

4 hours ago, Reality police said:

I will say it again, I don't want Chandler fired. I want him working like a dog under Ross. All the crap jobs and no naps. I want to see will squirm. 

And NO ice cream!!    ;-)

[MVFrostsMyPie]

2 hours ago, Juneau Gal said:

Going to echo what has already been said above so perhaps it will be understood this time: children must be allowed autonomy over their own bodies. This means auntie and grannie and cousin ask or wait for the child to initiate before coming in for the hug or kiss. 

This. I'm pretty mindful about asking my nephew if I can get a hug or kiss and don't pressure him to do so (he's a big fan of blowing kisses or hugging my leg luckily). Certainly I wish I didn't feel obligated to hug everyone during family get togethers when I was a kid. It's not even a matter of a family member being creepy. Some of us just don't like being touched or tickled and having our personal space invaded, whether as children or adults. If someone can't understand that concept, they're being purposely obtuse at best.

[100Proof]

28 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Some of us just don't like being touched or tickled and having our personal space invaded, whether as children or adults.

I was exactly the same way all my life until I got much older and came to realize that acting that way was more or less me being an anti-social selfish dick towards others who cared about me.  ;-D

Look, most kids hate it (see hello muddah hello faddah). It's a thing with them. But you're the bloody adult in the relationship and if granny wants to grab little adorable preciousness for a bit of love ain't gonna flippin' traumatize the kid for life and turn them into a serial killer or the ability in distinguishing the diff between what granny wants and what a stranger wants, okay.

No wonder people are pretty fed up with all this uber oversensitive delicate triggered snowflake nonsense.

Edited November 21, 2018 by 100Proof

[Kiss my mutt]

I just can’t get Chandler just staring dumbfounded at the guest when she called him out for not apologizing.  Even if he believes he did nothing wrong he could have been more genuine and effusive with his apologies instead of arguing with her that he did say he was sorry. 

[queenjen]

9 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

Kate is fast with service and accurate. But I don't think I've ever seen her run. Caroline runs everywhere. Yet somehow nothing is done right...except maybe cabins and folding laundry.  She shouldn't be on service.

Kate should get a magic marker and write 'less haste more speed' on Caroline's forehead until the next charter. 

Not that there should be a 'next charter' for Caroline. A stay somewhere nice and peaceful with a day program is probably advisable at this point. One thing though, apart from Rhylee talking to her in their cabin when they tag team with sleep, Caroline just didn't gel with anyone on this boat. Most times the chefs (apart from Leon, but he did like Rocky) are kind of an oasis from the drama. I agree with the poster above who said Adrian is not treating Caroline at all professionally. Refusing to tell her where the sugar is, or speak to her is only going to drive her faster into the abyss, which might be the best thing for everyone, including Caroline, because she is not a well girl. She was looking for physical ailments to excuse her from work she just can't do.

A lot of people here were saying 'google the cocktails'. SHE WAS!!! And she still can't make a Bloody Mary or OJ. Production did catch Kate telling Josiah to make Caroline a list for morning service, I don't know if that was a problem for her. I feel at the reunion she is going to be vociferous about hostile work environment (no one speaking to her and worse from Adrian) and the at least 2 calls she made to not the deck crew but Cpt Lee about the broken glass. Still, basic safety  (and common sense) states she needed to stay with it, although I'm not sure the guests were actually boarding the yacht when she dropped the glasses. 

[Beachdreamer]

What is up with the previews for next week?  It looks like Rhylee joins Caroline in bed and then it later sounds like someone is getting some in the van????  I'm sure that's not what actually happens, but the clips are interesting and make you wonder.

Also in the previews is Rhylee going nuts on Chef Namaste.  That's too bad.  Her temper was out of control while she reported to Chandler, but if he's demoted next week and she's still volatile, then she can't blame it on Chandler.

[heavysnaxx]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

And no one has to act "cuckoo" or "neurotic" about it. If someone said, "Give granny a hug goodbye" and my child said, "no" and granny then wrapped him up in a hug, I'd nicely ask her to respect my child's wishes not to hug at this time. I've actually done something like this before and it was fine. No one thought I was acting weird.  I once had to tell my FIL to stop tickling my middle child, because he wasn't listening to my child saying, "no". I don't think Grandpa is a molester. Far from it. But I want my kids to know that they can start telling people "no" when it comes to their bodies NOW. And I want them to know I'll back them up.

One of my spouse's proudest moments as a parent was when one his kids was little and stood her ground against an overbearing relative (egged on by my spouse's mother) who was demanding a kiss. They wanted my husband to literally push her into it and he said, "It's up to her who she kisses, not me and not you."

Consent from a young age on is a good thing.

[mcjen]

16 minutes ago, Beachdreamer said:

What is up with the previews for next week?  It looks like Rhylee joins Caroline in bed and then it later sounds like someone is getting some in the van????  I'm sure that's not what actually happens, but the clips are interesting and make you wonder.

Also in the previews is Rhylee going nuts on Chef Namaste.  That's too bad.  Her temper was out of control while she reported to Chandler, but if he's demoted next week and she's still volatile, then she can't blame it on Chandler.

I also thought there was a moment in previews where an off-camera Ross said "Watch the attitude." to Rhylee and she responded with heavy sarcasm, "Yes, sir!"  That had me wondering if Ross was promoted to bosun and she didn't care for his supervision any more than Chandler's.  I hope I'm wrong.  I suppose the off-camera voice might have been Ashton's.  It didn't sound like Chandler's American accent.

[BodhiGurl]

At this stage of the charter season, I'm a bit surprised Caroline was left alone - not that she shouldn't be able to do the basic of chores, but... she's clearly not fit for the job... maybe she should have been on the island with Kate or Josiah, with the other competent interior staff left behind on their own... and I'm a Kate fan, and enjoy her and Josiah's relationship overall... not meant as shade to either of them... I dunno. Maybe the island party would have been way beyond Caroline's comfort zone so leaving her behind (and thus the one the guests see when they come back) was the best choice... I do hope she gets a plane ticket tho. Not entertaining to watch a person having such "issues". 

[mcjen]

I suspect Caroline may have been left alone because, if things had gone according to plan, either Kate or Josiah would have returned with the guests, leaving a stew behind to assist a deckhand or two with the breakdown of the pig roast setup.  And if Chandler had only notified her of Capt. Lee's instructions to return with the tinders, she might have been able to make some arrangement to flow with that plan, so that Caroline would not have been left alone to receive all 10 guests.  Or, at worst, not left alone for so long.

[OnceSane]

Move on from the kissing children discussion, please.  It has veered into off-topic territory with the personal anecdotes.  Thanks!

[scenicbyway]

35 minutes ago, BodhiGurl said:

At this stage of the charter season, I'm a bit surprised Caroline was left alone - not that she shouldn't be able to do the basic of chores, but... she's clearly not fit for the job... maybe she should have been on the island with Kate or Josiah, with the other competent interior staff left behind on their own... and I'm a Kate fan, and enjoy her and Josiah's relationship overall... not meant as shade to either of them... I dunno. Maybe the island party would have been way beyond Caroline's comfort zone so leaving her behind (and thus the one the guests see when they come back) was the best choice... I do hope she gets a plane ticket tho. Not entertaining to watch a person having such "issues". 

I think there were 2 reasons Caroline wasn’t on the island.  1.  She annoys Kate. 2. She annoys the guests, they totally were picking up on her anxiety.

[BodhiGurl]

14 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

I think there were 2 reasons Caroline wasn’t on the island.  1.  She annoys Kate. 2. She annoys the guests, they totally were picking up on her anxiety.

ha ha - you are probably right ;) 

[queenjen]

10 hours ago, BodhiGurl said:

I guess the upside to this season is very little coworker hookup action outside of that Ashton/Rhylee scene earlier in the season (and well, per the previews, looks like Rhy or Caroline hook up with someone on the deck crew...eegads...)

Well now, if you stuck a gun to Caroline's head, she was originally keen on Chandler. Imagine if that dynamic was happening at this stage? i'm glad it's not, because then there'd always be the 'distracted because in a deck relationship' excuse. instead, we are seeing the both of them screw up all on their own, no excuses, just stunningly incompetent.

Rhylee is going to take down Ashton like a lion on a wildebeest next episode. That'll be her in the van, because she 'can't be quiet'. And whoever that was, wasn't being quiet. 

[Jextella]

1 hour ago, mcjen said:

I also thought there was a moment in previews where an off-camera Ross said "Watch the attitude." to Rhylee and she responded with heavy sarcasm, "Yes, sir!"  That had me wondering if Ross was promoted to bosun and she didn't care for his supervision any more than Chandler's.  I hope I'm wrong.  I suppose the off-camera voice might have been Ashton's.  It didn't sound like Chandler's American accent.

Rhylee is as much of a loon as Caroline.  They just act out in different directions.

[scrb]

4 hours ago, Kickboxer said:

Just watched this and ran back here to read everyone's thoughts! I am SO disappointed that we didn't get to see Chandler being fired at the crew mess right after the charter in front of everyone. The previews have me fearing that it is Rhylee who is sent to leave in an hour, after she gets wasted on crew night out, maybe Kate makes some little bitchy remark and Rhylee smacked Kate on the back of the head, prompting it. I'd rather see Caroline leave, as oddly interesting as watching her meltdown is, it can't be good for her as a human. 

TBH, I wouldn't be bothered in the least if Rhylee, Chandler and Caroline are all booted.

They all negatively affect their co-workers.

But if the TV show crew (as opposed to the real crew who make the ship work) all got along swimmingly, then Bravo probably would not like the lack of drama.

So Lee is probably given some latitude to fire people, discipline them, etc. to maintain the appearance that this is a real functioning crew rather than a TV show.  But let's be real, Bravo cast these people and ultimately have the final say on who stays and appears on the show.

[Skycatcher]

Tips -  If everybody is getting an equal amount of tips you've got to know there's other compensation involved in the program. I cannot imagine chief stew Kate getting the same amount of money for the program as screw ups like Caroline.

Bosun -  If Ross is promoted to bosun and Chandler is demoted does he become the next lower ranking member of the deck crew - #2? That would put him in a position to still give Riley all kinds of grief "translating" orders down the line.  OTOH  I can't see them demoting him to the least ranking deck member -#4.   I'd like to see it but I doubt they do that.

Beach clean up -  I get that the plot was that the deck crew returned and left Kate and Josiah to clean up all by their lonesome. BUT.......where was the Unicorn, and how did they schlep all that stuff, dishes, tables, etc. back to the boat?  Did they have to load it all into a van at the beach, out of a van at the dock, and on to a boat to take it out to the Sienna?

Edited November 22, 2018 by Skycatcher

[Blindfox]

I’m over Adrian. I think he’s a poser. A talented poser, but a poser nonetheless. That “I’m not going to talk to you” shit he pulled was classic passive-aggressive bullshit. It’s a way of being emotionally abusive and still being able to claim, “I didn’t say or do anything!” It was an unprofessional dick move.

That said, I think Caroline is downright demented. I mean really, really troubled. The kind of troubled that only a lot of medication and on-going therapy can help. Not solve, but help. I thought she was going to have a full-on nervous breakdown when the guests asked for OJ. “Well, I’ll probably have to squeeze it!,” she gasps as she twitches and sputters. Even the guests are uncomfortable with her now. My guess is she was so overwhelmed by dropping the glasses that she couldn’t pull herself together well enough to clean up the glass promptly. Then she gags into her elbow, says she is getting sick, and plants a big kiss on the little boy. Yuck! And I mean yuck on her entire train wreck personality, not just the kiss.

I hate Chandler, but Rhylee is no prize herself. She is really hot-headed. With Chandler being a condescending mysogynistic asshole, it was inevitable they would not get along.

Speaking of Chandler, every time I think I can’t hate him more, he proves me wrong. He can’t do anything right. All he had to do was act concerned about that woman and offer her a bandaid, and she wouldn’t have been so pissed off. He’s really kind of awkward socially, and he’s the kind of awkward that doesn’t care that he is awkward, so he’s never going to change. If he wasn’t such an idiot jackass, I’d kind of admire that. That argument he had with Kate showed that it isn’t just with Rhylee that he is a mysogynistic, priggish asshole. He thinks he’s too good to pitch in, certainly too good to take orders from a woman, not a team player, not a team leader, and more concerned with eating ice cream like a child than helping out like a man. That pitching the meat out was a temper tantrum move: If I can’t have my beloved ice cream, nobody else is going to be able to eat this later! If I was Adrian and found all of my hard work in the trash, I’d be pissed. Chandler won’t be happy until everyone hates him. I bet his boat captain daddy is mortified.

Thank God for Kate, and I never thought I’d say that. She might not be warm and fuzzy, but she is smart and she gets shit done. I don’t know how she puts up with incompetent Carolyn, asshole Chandler, and hothead Rhylee. She deserves a medal.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Blindfox

[Luciano]

5 hours ago, BodhiGurl said:

 (I am curious why we saw Chandler in his deck crew garb in the previews, unless that was thrown in there from a previous episode to throw us all off).

Is it that shot in the blue shirt, where he's talking to the rest of the crew? Because that was what he was wearing at the end of this episode.

 

12 minutes ago, Skycatcher said:

Tips -  If everybody is getting an equal amount of tips you've got to know there's other compensation involved in the program. I cannot imagine chief stew Kate getting the same amount of money for the program as screw ups like Caroline.

Tips are given out equally, but Kate gets the bigger salary as the Chief Stew (completely separate from Bravo - just her yachty salary) and a larger amount of money from Bravo since she's been on the show since almost the very beginning.

[Kiss my mutt]

Rhylee needs to learn how to take direction and feedback but having an incompetent nincompoop as a superior who had it out for you from the get-go would try anyone. She can hustle and seems quite capable with her duties. 

Her attitude will do her in though and being able to fall back and work as a team is critical in that industry. 

[bosawks]

Rhylee seems a bit off but the guests seem to like her and she works hard.

Her anger towards Chandler might be her downfall though.

And that will annoy the piss out of me since it’ll give Chandler the ability to dance the “I told you so dance” no matter who she goes after.

Edited November 22, 2018 by bosawks