20/20 - General Discussion

[Wings]

So the episode does not end with getting the guy who did it?  I hate when they do that. Or is it a 2 parter.

[BuckeyeLou]

42 minutes ago, wings707 said:

So the episode does not end with getting the guy who did it?  I hate when they do that. Or is it a 2 parter.

It was frustrating, 20/20 acted like they had the 'answer" to Lauren's disappearance and yet the show ended and they still did not say who they thought did it. 

[Wings]

2 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

It was frustrating, 20/20 acted like they had the 'answer" to Lauren's disappearance and yet the show ended and they still did not say who they thought did it. 

Glad I read here first.  I hate that!  I want to see the conclusion.  They probably aired it in hopes of someone coming forward and no one would have watched had they led with that.  

[NewDigs]

3 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I live in Indiana, and cant believe someone would say "its old news, move on"...sheesh, Lauren's parents need to Know what happened!  And I agree that those boys who were with her know more than they are letting on.

And I have to wonder if Miss Move-on doesn't have some info. That is pretty heartless and seems almost like she wants it all to be over. For a (nefarious?) reason.

Or, I watch (and read) too much true crime. Always suspicious.

[ichbin]

3 hours ago, NewDigs said:

And I have to wonder if Miss Move-on doesn't have some info. That is pretty heartless and seems almost like she wants it all to be over. For a (nefarious?) reason.

Or, I watch (and read) too much true crime. Always suspicious.

If she was filmed during the Fall 2015/Spring 2015 semesters and she was new to IU it is possible she doesn't really know much about the disappearance of Lauren Spierer, or murder of Hannah Wilson who was also an IU Bloomington student at the time of her death in April 2015.  The girl who made the comment sounded callow, particularly to those who are more familiar with both cases, but it's my guess that Lauren is simply a name to her with only some vague recognition of what this particular missing person case is about.   

The police chief's behavior was really odd.  The reporter seemed to be asking a reasonable question under the circumstances.  I thought the chief came off looking really bad.

I would have preferred some more real meat in the episode.  It seemed like a lot of time was spent on clues which did not appear to pan out.  I hope that there is more going on behind the scenes that will eventually lead to closure for Lauren's family.  

[Enigma X]

I found 20/20's reporting of the Spierer case to be a little tabloidy. I don't know. It just seemed as off and cold as the student who said get over it.

[NewDigs]

Just tuned in to ID's replay of Unfriended but not too sure how long I'll last.

Because, Nancy Grace. Shows lose credibility when they choose to re-air her diatribes. And she drives me nuts, UGH!

Wish they wouldn't go back to that particular well for background. I don't trust a thing she says.

Edited June 28, 2016 by NewDigs

[imjagain]

I just recently watched the road rage case,  where a mom is shot after giving her daughter a driving lesson.  I found the case so bizarre and sad. 

I was surprised how much I really disliked the husband. 

[RedheadZombie]

On June 28, 2016 at 10:10 AM, NewDigs said:

Just tuned in to ID's replay of Unfriended but not too sure how long I'll last.

Because, Nancy Grace. Shows lose credibility when they choose to re-air her diatribes. And she drives me nuts, UGH!

Wish they wouldn't go back to that particular well for background. I don't trust a thing she says.

I feel the same about Dan Abrams.  He lost all credibility with his coverage of his personal friend Kelly Rutherford.  Rutherford lost custody of her kids as a result of her lies and attempts at parental alienation, yet Abrams perpetuates the belief that Rutherford's "American" children were stolen from her.  I'm disgusted that ABC lets him misrepresent facts (lie) about a case he's personally invested in.  

[NewDigs]

Wow. Did not know that. Too many news people, imho, are getting too personal with their "reporting".

When I think of Abrams I always picture him on the Supreme Court steps in 2000 riffling thru pages and pages of the Bush v Gore decision and trying to make enough sense of it to be able to quicly report the finding. I trusted him back then but see little of him now. He became very ill with cancer.

[Court]

Did anyone watch the Dear Annie episode?

 

I have mixed feelings on it. I think the parents are desperate to believe it wasn't suicide.

She did write the note about suicide so there was something going on there her parents weren't aware of it. 

But bactine is a bizarre way to kill yourself. What happened to her missing organs?

[walnutqueen]

5 minutes ago, Court said:

Did anyone watch the Dear Annie episode?

 

I have mixed feelings on it. I think the parents are desperate to believe it wasn't suicide.

She did write the note about suicide so there was something going on there her parents weren't aware of it. 

But bactine is a bizarre way to kill yourself. What happened to her missing organs?

Parents rarely want to believe their kids could commit suicide. 

If Bactine is a bizarre method of suicide, it is an even more bizarre method of murder.

Funeral directors have no business postulating about murder to a bereaved family.

[Court]

57 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Parents rarely want to believe their kids could commit suicide. 

If Bactine is a bizarre method of suicide, it is an even more bizarre method of murder.

Funeral directors have no business postulating about murder to a bereaved family.

Yes! I thought that was strange behavior for a funeral director. 

They kept saying she was sheltered and I thought that actually explained why she drank bactine to commit suicide. 

I also wonder if there is info the police have that they didn't share with us. The family is privy to it but doesn't share it either 

[Albino]

I feel bad for the parents, but their visit to the inmate was puzzling.  I understand they are desperate for some kind of answer (aka "closure") but even they said they doubted he would tell them anything.  I'm sure that deep inside they were hoping for a Perry Mason-type spontaneous confession, or at the very least the prisoner to say he saw a "bushy haired stranger" forcing Annie to drink Bactine.

No matter how close parents claim to be to their kids, kids have plenty of secrets.  The fact that they were shocked by her suicide note(s) confirms this.  I'm sorry for their loss but I hope they are able to accept it as suicide and move on.

[imjagain]

My heart goes out to the parents.  I just think they don't want to admit that their daughter was troubled. The letters the police finally released were very telling.  The parents knew about them but I think wanted to ignore the truth. The letters spoke of suicide,  anorexia and the pressure getting to her.  

Saying all that,  it was bizarre. She withdrew $1, 000 from her bank account  and wrote of starting over. Then killed herself?   Everything was strange.  Did the parents or the police mention if the money was in her belongings or was it taken by the 3 that took her car? Wth?  They see a young girl dead in the car and dump her behind a dumpster? That is beyond disgusting! That would definitely have me questioning everything, if I were the parents. 

All very sad. 

Edited July 21, 2016 by imjagain

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 2:04 PM, walnutqueen said:

Parents rarely want to believe their kids could commit suicide. 

If Bactine is a bizarre method of suicide, it is an even more bizarre method of murder.

Funeral directors have no business postulating about murder to a bereaved family.

A guy I went to college with was killed by a train while walking home from a bar.  The guy was absolutely brilliant, and his family fought hard at the inquest to have his death determined an accident.  But the conductor was firm in his insistence that this guy deliberately stayed on the tracks, and laid down when the train approached.  Denial is powerful.

I'm trying to watch the "In an Instant" about the bonfire accident at Texas A&M, but I'm having a hard time feeling any compassion for these fools.  I just cannot fathom spending three months raping the land, and then using the wood to build a one hundred foot pile to burn because of a fucking football game.  These people worked in twenty-four hour shifts.  They took WWII helmets (they called "pots"), painted things on them, then wore them to wreak their havoc.  They would stand in line taking turns hacking at a tree.  No one wore special boots.  No one wore eye goggles.  Some wore a roll of toilet paper hanging from their waists.  On break, they were given water which they drank out of their filthy "pots".  The dorms projected 24/7 TV footage of the bonfire process.  The dorm set up huge speakers and blasted wake-up music at 3:30 AM to wake them up for the bonfire.  Students skipped classes, because this wasn't an experience you could learn in a book.

One guy waxes nostalgic that the process turns a boy into a man.  A woman said hacking the tree was "empowering".  These people are talking about a process that I know is going to end in a horrific tragedy, and yet they're grinning like the morons they were.  They take such outrageous pride in this whole thing.  You would think they were chopping wood and building log cabins for Habitat for Humanity.  Nope.  Just defiling the forest, and displacing baby animals.  So much hate for this.  I can't wait until the end.  I'm sure they've added a ritual to the bonfire each year.  They will further damage the environment in memory of those who gave their lives, martyred for the bonfire.

[Court]

I absolutely hate A&M. I'm a Texas fan. However, because of that, I also understand the tradition, pride and love for it. 

I grew up in Texas and had friends there so the tragedy hit close to home.

Are the pots silly? Sure, but these students were having fun. Many other colleges have silly traditions during rivalry week.

 Even if you think the bonfire is stupid, that does not mean those killed or injured and their families aren't deserving of compassion. 

 

A&M no longer allows the bonfire 

Edited July 24, 2016 by Court

[Wings]

I accidentally deleted this.  Exactly how did they (how many) lose their life?

[Court]

17 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I accidentally deleted this.  Exactly how did they (how many) lose their life?

12 killed and 27 injured.

[A.Ham]

I just finished watching the bonfire story. The environmental damage done for the sake of a football game and school spirit is ridiculous and utterly unnecessary, in my eyes. I also can't believe that while the school sanctioned it, it was completely student-led, without some type of supervision to ensure safety. Something of this nature was bound to happen considering the size and scope of the thing.

Having said that, I do feel for those who lost someone. I can't imagine, for example, being Tim Kerlee's parents and having to tell him, some two moths shy of his 18th birthday, that he was not going to make it. Just horrendous. 

But I find it strange that the two male survivors both basically said if they would have still done it if they could go back in time. Really? And even if Texas A&M no longer sanctions or supports the bonfire (well, because lawsuits) it still has continued to occur offsite since 2002; though it is stated to be half the size now from previous years. So, basically no lessons learned from the tragedy.

Edited July 24, 2016 by A.Ham
Spelling

[Medicine Crow]

3 minutes ago, A.Ham said:

I just finished watching the bonfire story. The environmental damage done for the sake of a football game and school spirit is ridiculous and utterly unnecessary, in my eyes. I also can't believe that while the school sanctioned it, it was a completely student-led, without some type of supervision to ensure safety. Something of this nature was bound to happen considering the size and scope of the thing.

Having said that, I do feel for those who lost someone. I can't imagine, for example, being Tim Kerlee's parents and having to tell him, some two moths shy of his 18th birthday, that he was not going to make it. Just horrendous. 

But I find it strange that the two male survivors both basically said if they would have still done it if they could go back in time. Really? And even if Texas A&M no longer sanctions or supports the bonfire (well, because lawsuits) it still has continued to occur offsite sine 2002; though it is stated to be half the size now from previous years. So, basically no lessons learned from the tragedy.

My bold!  I can't believe this waste of natural resources is allowed to continue, let alone the possibility of injury/death to the nimrods that participate.

[Court]

While it does continue off campus, there were significant safety changes made to prevent this from happening again. (Structural, engineering, safety equipment and classes all exist now.) 

You also have to remember this had been done for over a century with nothing like this ever happening. So, it's easy to say in hindsight "it was bound to happen" but I can see why they didn't think it could/would happen.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Court

[Court]

Also, landowners donate the timber. Those owners want the trees gone for whatever reason. Perhaps they're dying, perhaps they're building. But it isn't as if they just pick a random pasture and start chopping. Those trees are going to be removed regardless.  

 

I get hating the environmental impact however I do not understand the level of hate directed towards innocent people who lost their lives.

I love football, you don't have to get it. Maybe I don't get your passion. So what? That doesn't make either of us less deserving of compassion. 

[Adez]

2 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

My bold!  I can't believe this waste of natural resources is allowed to continue, let alone the possibility of injury/death to the nimrods that participate.

1. All the cuts happen on land where ranchers need the acreage cleared. They are quite happy to get a very expensive task done through free labor from the students.

2. Because of Bonfire, students serve on an ongoing project called "Replant", one of the largest student-run environmental programs in the nation. Volunteers plant trees all throughout the county in places that need them. After the devastating fires in Central Texas, Replant has included fire-ravaged State Parks as part of their service area.

http://www.tamu.edu/traditions/aggie-culture/replant/

Somewhat related, Texas A&M has a very active student-led service culture. Their school established the original Big Event, which is, once again, the largest of its kind. Over 20,000 participated last year. Other colleges have gradually followed their precedent, establishing "thank you" events benefiting their communities.

http://www.tamu.edu/traditions/aggie-culture/the-big-event/

[Showthyme]

Annie lived such a sheltered life. Bactine was something that she was allowed to have. Annie may not have wanted to disturb her parents view of their perfect home and perfect daughter by going into the Intercity to end her life. 

Annie didn't seem to have a joyful life before her death.

[BusyOctober]

Just watched the Bonfire episode...wow.  I cried several times-mostly for poor brave Mrs. Kerlee and when that firefighter choked up realizing the guy he thought died actually survived.  Did they edit the story to mention how Tim Kerlee requested the rescuers to move on to others before him so we would ask "what if he had been pulled out sooner?" I am not a religious person, but I felt  a strange sense of relief when Mrs Kerlee described her solace and peace knowing Tim Jr. would be going on to a safer, pain-free afterlife.  How horrible to think your child survived such trauma only to find out he was going to die...and then have to explain that to your child!  

I understand the bonfire tradition had been safely done for 90 years, and that it is a student-led event. But I hope I am correct in assuming that there were engineering professors (or professionals) on hand to advise and supervise, right?  They didn't expect engineering students to have final say in safety and design plans, right?  

 

(And i do not have a spoiler to add but I couldn't make this window go away)

Spoiler

 

[Court]

Kerlee really did tell the rescuers to move onto the others trapped. I'm sure they edited it to make us wonder what you asked, though. 

No, there was no professional or teacher supervision. Each class passed on how to build it down to the next one.

It is off campus now and not sanctioned by A&M. There are professionals who oversee the students and implemented structural and safety changes.

[Adez]

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

Just watched the Bonfire episode...wow.  I cried several times-mostly for poor brave Mrs. Kerlee and when that firefighter choked up realizing the guy he thought died actually survived.  Did they edit the story to mention how Tim Kerlee requested the rescuers to move on to others before him so we would ask "what if he had been pulled out sooner?" I am not a religious person, but I felt  a strange sense of relief when Mrs Kerlee described her solace and peace knowing Tim Jr. would be going on to a safer, pain-free afterlife.  How horrible to think your child survived such trauma only to find out he was going to die...and then have to explain that to your child!  

I understand the bonfire tradition had been safely done for 90 years, and that it is a student-led event. But I hope I am correct in assuming that there were engineering professors (or professionals) on hand to advise and supervise, right?  They didn't expect engineering students to have final say in safety and design plans, right?  

 

(And i do not have a spoiler to add but I couldn't make this window go away)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The program didn't mention this but Mr. and Mrs. Kerlee left Tennessee and moved to College Station after Tim's death in order to counsel other survivors or students who needed to talk, pray, or whatever helped them. TAMU has a heavy emphasis on "family" ("Once an Aggie, always an Aggie" is the motto) & though neither had anything to do with the school before Tim elected to go there, they became honorary members of the Aggie family. They became particularly close to the Corps of Cadets, of which Tim was a member:

Tim was allowed to die because when surgeons opened up his abdomen, his organs were so crushed that they were almost unrecognizable. They closed him back up, wrapped a sheet around his torso to hold everything in place & made his end as pain-free as they could under the circumstances. There is a controversial photo of him from that night on Stack that earned the photographer a nomination for a Pulitzer.

BTW, I am not an Aggie, but I married one.

[woodscommaelle]

The episode about the tornado and the elementary school was heartbreaking.

[Pickles]

The Elizabeth Vargas episode. She is lucky to be alive and to still have a job. I hope she can stay sober. I am looking forward to reading her book. I wonder why she did not see a doctor for some anti-anxiety meds when the anxiety started getting out of control? I guess she could not admit she had a problem?

[Medicine Crow]

I don't know why, but I really feel for her.  It seems her anxiety is deep-seated & she really wasn't aware of what she was dealing with.

[imjagain]

I still remember  Barbara Walters,  had to make sure to let Elizabeth Vargas know that everyone at ABC knew she had a problem. The look on EV's face was just so sad. She had just explained that nobody knew she was struggling.  This was after her first rehab stay. 

I hope she stays sober.  I'm looking forward to her book too. 

[Medicine Crow]

That's when BaWa showed me just how mean she really was!!!

[Zahdii]

6 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

That's when BaWa showed me just how mean she really was!!!

'BaWa' lost me when she kept insisting that Kate Gosselin was a wonderful mother.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Zahdii
<sigh>spelling...again...

[Court]

On 9/10/2016 at 6:21 PM, Pickles said:

The Elizabeth Vargas episode. She is lucky to be alive and to still have a job. I hope she can stay sober. I am looking forward to reading her book. I wonder why she did not see a doctor for some anti-anxiety meds when the anxiety started getting out of control? I guess she could not admit she had a problem?

I'm thinking that she was in deep denial.

I found her interview heartbreaking. It's clear she is still really struggling. She also feels a lot of guilt too. 

I hope she stays sober too. 

[nlkm9]

thoughts? Im so torn about case.

I guess im old fashioned but I was surprised that Tandy and Nick were only together less than a year and she had already moved him in with her sons? who each had different dads? Is this what people do now, instead of just "dating" they move in with their kids?

It is a terrible tragedy, I hope moving forward Tandy thinks about her kids first rather than her own needs. 

At first i was convinced nick was innocent, but after seeing that he was hanging around the school and appeared to follow the boy, plus his ankle injury.....

but then why would he be crazy enough to sue them and dredge it all up?

Edited October 2, 2016 by nlkm9
wrong namw

[Lovecat]

His first name is Nick.

[nlkm9]

oops!! sorry I will go edit!!

[Court]

I just watched this and there is zero way I could convict. There is virtually zero evidence he had anything to do with it. 

The ankle injury doesn't mean much since his prints didn't match and no other forensic evidence to tie him to it. No one saw him at the apartment either. I'm not even convinced he was followed Garrett when he left the school. This case screams reasonable doubt to me. 

His mom is the only one who said her child had issues with Nick. The child psychologist said the boy never complained about him. If the boys were the roadblock, wouldn't he have killed them both?

The smartest thing he did was waive his right to a jury trial. There was no way that town would acquit him. The police had tunnel vision and saw someone easy to convict because he was black. The prosecutor saw the same thing, imo. 

[Court]

I just watched Nick Hillary case and there is zero way I could convict. There is virtually zero evidence he had anything to do with it. 

The ankle injury doesn't mean much since his prints didn't match and no other forensic evidence to tie him to it. No one saw him at the apartment either. I'm not even convinced he was following Garrett when he left the school. This case screams reasonable doubt to me. 

His mom is the only one who said her child had issues with Nick. The child psychologist said the boy never complained about him. If the boys were the roadblock, wouldn't he have killed them both?

The smartest thing he did was waive his right to a jury trial. There was no way that town would acquit him. The police had tunnel vision and saw someone easy to convict because he was black. The prosecutor saw the same thing, imo. 

[CaughtOnTape]

I wouldn't have convicted either.  There's nothing connecting him to it.  The car thing seemed far fetched and ridiculous.  It made no sense for him to kill that kid.  

I thought the DA used the mother for her own gain and therefore went after Nick to make good on her promise.

Something was up with Tandy.  On Dateline she came off fine but on 20/20 she came off much worse.  I get she lost her son and that changes one's attitude...but....I dunno.

[Court]

I get the feeling I'm supposed to feel sorry for Kim Long but I feel zero sympathy for her. She came off as cold and very rehearsed. She didn't seem to care that a man died.

There didn't seem to be much evidence pointing towards anyone. I'm undecided on her guilt but I don't think I could have convicted her.

[Wings]

On 10/2/2016 at 4:24 AM, nlkm9 said:

thoughts? Im so torn about case.

I guess im old fashioned but I was surprised that Tandy and Nick were only together less than a year and she had already moved him in with her sons? who each had different dads? Is this what people do now, instead of just "dating" they move in with their kids?

People have done this since the beginning of time.  And yes, they do this "now ah days."     

Edited October 30, 2016 by wings707

[RedheadZombie]

I watched the Gretchen Carlson interview.  I believed everything she said.  I'm glad she finally spoke out, and I'm glad she won her lawsuit.  I support her as a woman who has experienced sexual harassment in the work place.  I'm sad for her that Megyn Kelly hung her out to dry until coming forward worked for Kelly's career and book sales.  But I just don't find Carlson sympathetic.  I can't quite put it into words.  I've never watched Fox and Friends, and I don't watch Fox.  So I'm strictly going off of the interview.  Am I alone in this?

[Medicine Crow]

39 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I watched the Gretchen Carlson interview.  I believed everything she said.  I'm glad she finally spoke out, and I'm glad she won her lawsuit.  I support her as a woman who has experienced sexual harassment in the work place.  I'm sad for her that Megyn Kelly hung her out to dry until coming forward worked for Kelly's career and book sales.  But I just don't find Carlson sympathetic.  I can't quite put it into words.  I've never watched Fox and Friends, and I don't watch Fox.  So I'm strictly going off of the interview.  Am I alone in this?

I too watched the interview & had the same feeling ... not sure what it was, but ....

[Jaded]

I liked Gretchen when she hosted The CBS Saturday Early Show on the weekends before she went to Faux. I never watched her again after she left CBS so maybe working there changed her in ways that were not for the better. It wouldn't surprise me considering the work environment Faux has going on over there.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/gretchen-carlson-cooks/

[Court]

On 11/20/2016 at 2:40 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I watched the Gretchen Carlson interview.  I believed everything she said.  I'm glad she finally spoke out, and I'm glad she won her lawsuit.  I support her as a woman who has experienced sexual harassment in the work place.  I'm sad for her that Megyn Kelly hung her out to dry until coming forward worked for Kelly's career and book sales.  But I just don't find Carlson sympathetic.  I can't quite put it into words.  I've never watched Fox and Friends, and I don't watch Fox.  So I'm strictly going off of the interview.  Am I alone in this?

I agree. The sad thing is that this harassment exists in practically every workplace. It's accepted and almost expected in some places. 

[Josette]

Quote

.  I support her as a woman who has experienced sexual harassment in the work place.  I'm sad for her that Megyn Kelly hung her out to dry until coming forward worked for Kelly's career and book sales. 

I don't think Megyn Kelly hung her out to dry.  When the story first broke and other people were doubting Gretchen Carlson's claims, Megyn Kelly said she herself had been harassed, thereby giving legitimacy to Carlson's story.

 

Quote

The pressure on Ailes to step down skyrocketed when New York Magazine reported that Megyn Kelly, the network’s star anchor, had told lawyers that she, too, had been sexually harassed by the Fox News boss, about a decade ago, and she helped encouraged others to speak out.

“I appreciated that she told the truth, and I know it was risky,” Carlson said of Kelly.

Vanity Fair

Quote

As a chorus of prominent Fox News women have gone public defending Roger Ailes against the wave of sexual-harassment allegations sparked by former Fox News host Gretchen Carlson’s lawsuit, the network’s biggest star, Megyn Kelly, has been conspicuously silent. Kelly’s refusal to join in Ailes’s orchestrated defense has led to speculation about why.

Now we have the answer. According to two sources briefed on parent company 21st Century Fox’s outside probe of the Fox News executive, led by New York–based law firm Paul, Weiss, Kelly has told investigators that Ailes made unwanted sexual advances toward her about ten years ago when she was a young correspondent at Fox. Kelly, according to the sources, has described her harassment by Ailes in detail.

Ny Magazine

[raiderred1]

Did anyone catch the latest episode, "Finding Sherri"?  That poor woman is going to be scarred both physically and mentally for the rest of her life.  At first I was very suspicious of the husband and then I wasn't. Who the hell took her, branded her and beat the hell out of her for weeks???  This is scary stuff!

[ari333]

Did you guys see the Sherri Papini (sp?) case that aired last night - Fri, Dec 2 , 2016. It was.... IDK the word. ODD? Something about the whole thing seemed off, but I couldn't put my finger on why.  I cant see a person being branded and burned on body parts if it were a hoax. On the other hand... something seemed off somehow, but I don't know how exactly.

Two female abductors is odd, but not impossible

A victim being released alive is uncommon, but it happens