Carole Radziwill: She's a Real Princess!

[ShawnaLanne]

12 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

She’s from Suffern, NY an hour outside of NYC in the Hudson River Valley.

Huh. I though she was from the midwest. Good to know.

[KungFuBunny]

12 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

@ichbin @KungFuBunny @AnnA @BckpckFullaNinjas and @ryebread: 

I just wanted to say thanks for the kudos and kind words. I was originally going to DM all of you but if this season has taught me nothing else, it’s that gratitude and appreciation must be expressed publicly and on-camera (or the equivalent) in order to qualify as sincere. Wouldn’t want our own version of NutcrackerGate to develop ?

Your post was absolutely amazing, Lunastartron!

I think I will bring it forward every week, so we can re-read its glory.

PS: Thanks for spelling out "Thanks" unlike Carole with her Thx

[Mozelle]

On 8/28/2018 at 7:12 PM, lezlers said:

Bethenny has been using twitter to get aid for people that need it.   Carole has been using twitter to bash Bethenny.   That, in a nutshell, is why I'm team Beth.

I just hopped onto Bethenny's Twitter since I don't follow her, and before Dennis' passing she was tweeting about the show; responding to people's tweets about the show via quote tweets; tweeting about dogs; tweeting about food; sharing pictures of herself...

[AnnA]

18 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

@ichbin @KungFuBunny @AnnA @BckpckFullaNinjas and @ryebread: 

I just wanted to say thanks for the kudos and kind words. I was originally going to DM all of you but if this season has taught me nothing else, it’s that gratitude and appreciation must be expressed publicly and on-camera (or the equivalent) in order to qualify as sincere. Wouldn’t want our own version of NutcrackerGate to develop ?

Thank you!    You're too kind!

[ryebread]

Before part two of the reunion begins, can anyone do a quick recap about what the disagreement is between Bethenny and Carol pertaining to Red Scarf guy?  Thanks. Thanks a million times. On or off camera, I will be so appreciative for your reply. Truly and forever grateful.

[AnnA]

20 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Before part two of the reunion begins, can anyone do a quick recap about what the disagreement is between Bethenny and Carol pertaining to Red Scarf guy?  Thanks. Thanks a million times. On or off camera, I will be so appreciative for your reply. Truly and forever grateful.

It's really stupid.   I'm not sure I got it all or have it right.

At speed dating Red Scarf guy told Bethenny he went there to see her.  They met in Florida.

Bethenny says she wasn't interested

Speed dating lady fixed Red Scarf guy up with Carole

They had lunch or dinner   She bragged about having a three hour meal with him.

There are texts between Red Scarf guy and Bethenny.  Bethenny wanted to meet him for lunch.  I don't know if that was in New York or Miami and before or after the speed dating event.  

Bethenny told Carole she was the consolation prize and Red Scarf guy was a player.

Red Scarf guy says Bethenny wanted him (I doubt it)

Carole tells Bethenny she's jealous because Red Scarf guy wanted her not Bethenny

Edited August 29, 2018 by AnnA

[Mozelle]

24 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Before part two of the reunion begins, can anyone do a quick recap about what the disagreement is between Bethenny and Carol pertaining to Red Scarf guy?  Thanks. Thanks a million times. On or off camera, I will be so appreciative for your reply. Truly and forever grateful.

*cues Final Jeopardy music*

As far as I can tell, it's that

• previously Bethenny and RSG had matched on some rich people dating app called The League;
• Bethenny went on a lunch date with RSG after that match, but they didn't click in any meaningful way;
• Bethenny and RSG were flirting at the speed dating event. (It looked like he was also flirting or playing along with Ramona to an extent that night...) Carole says that Rory meant to introduce her to RSG;
• at some point, Carole and RSG linked up and went out to dinner that lasted three hours;
• in Cartagena, Bethenny told the ladies in her car that RSG was hitting her up and trying to reconnect but that she didn't want him;
• at dinner in Cartagena, the ladies started joking Carole about RSG, and that's when she shared about the date; and
• Bethenny said that she wasn't interested in the guy anyway, and Carole corroborated that he wasn't interested either.

Post airing of that episode, RSG spoke up for himself and shared screenshots/receipts of text messages between him and Bethenny where Bethenny was trying to reconnect after the speed dating event. She mentioned Carole in those texts (but didn't mention that she mentioned Carole when she was ragging on RSG to the ladies in the car in Cartagena), and in those texts RSG mentioned that he found Carole interesting and nice.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Mozelle

[ShawnaLanne]

Wrong board.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[AnnA]

Nevermind wrong thread

Edited August 30, 2018 by AnnA

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, Mozelle said:

*cues Final Jeopardy music*

As far as I can tell, it's that

• previously Bethenny and RSG had matched on some rich people dating app called The League;
• Bethenny went on a lunch date with RSG after that match, but they didn't click in any meaningful way;
• Bethenny and RSG were flirting at the speed dating event. (It looked like he was also flirting or playing along with Ramona to an extent that night...) Carole says that Rory meant to introduce her to RSG;
• at some point, Carole and RSG linked up and went out to dinner that lasted three hours;
• in Cartagena, Bethenny told the ladies in her car that RSG was hitting her up and trying to reconnect but that she didn't want him;
• at dinner in Cartagena, the ladies started joking Carole about RSG, and that's when she shared about the date; and
• Bethenny said that she wasn't interested in the guy anyway, and Carole corroborated that he wasn't interested either.

Post airing of that episode, RSG spoke up for himself and shared screenshots/receipts of text messages between him and Bethenny where Bethenny was trying to reconnect after the speed dating event. She mentioned Carole in those texts (but didn't mention that she mentioned Carole when she was ragging on RSG to the ladies in the car in Cartagena), and in those texts RSG mentioned that he found Carole interesting and nice.

Thanks, @Mozelle. I don't know if I'd lost interest by that part of the season but the RSG skirmish just isn't registering in my brain.

What I think I do understand, though, is that he really had very little to do with the end of B & C's friendship.  Sounds like they were done way before the spped dating event.

[Mozelle]

13 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Thanks, @Mozelle. I don't know if I'd lost interest by that part of the season but the RSG skirmish just isn't registering in my brain.

What I think I do understand, though, is that he really had very little to do with the end of B & C's friendship.  Sounds like they were done way before the spped dating event.

Oh, yeah, definitely. I think they traveled to Colombia late February. By then the friendship was halting and jerking toward its end.

[RedDelicious]

@VioletHues I wonder about that too - I interpreted the reluctance as Carole being in over her head a little.  Anthony was famous by association, if not somewhat famous himself.  She was for all intents and purposes a girl from a working class family in the suburbs.  Then they get married and then he gets diagnosed.  Nothing can really prepare you for any of that.  Carolyn, I'm not sure anyone could really get close to her.  I think their friendship was genuine, but I agree, I'm not sure if it was as significant to Carolyn as it was to Carole; she definitely had her own shit going on.  I remember one book, I think The Day John Died, referred to Carole as Carol Ratowell (really?).  Did you by chance read Fairytale Interrupted or The Other Man?  Fairytale was okay.  Carole and Anthony are mentioned.  The Other Man was probably one of the worst books I've ever read.  I mean Michael Bergen has got to be the most pathetic dude on the planet, talk about narcissist.  And yet I re-read it every couple of years, it's such a train wreck.  But yeah, the Carole/Carolyn friendship, I think they were there for each other when they needed it.  Biggie the fries :)

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

4 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

The thing is, I don't begrudge her this. She is self aware enough to know that trading on a "title" from her dead husband that he didn't use in life, is tacky and trying too hard. But she's a girl from the Midwest, it's cool. She does clearly try to control herself about it. But she doesn't totally. And then to make fun of Luanne for doing the same thing? At least Lu's husband used the title while they were married. He still does and she used hers while married. Luanne logically had more right to the title until she remarried.

She's such a huge hypocrite. 

She’s from upstate NY, not the Midwest. We got plenty of problems, but C ain’t one. 8-)

[ShawnaLanne]

35 minutes ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

She’s from upstate NY, not the Midwest. We got plenty of problems, but C ain’t one. 8-)

I'm smack in the middle myself, moved here from the West Coast six years ago. I think I translated middle class to Midwest in my brain. I know she was recently described with one of those m words.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[Martinigirl]

5 hours ago, 918lux said:

I think it's also fair to point out that Carole really doesn't use the princess thing except here and there and generally in a pretty tongue & cheek way- it's not her whole identity.  In What Remains she even joked around that she had an invitation addressed to Prince & Princess Radziwill framed and hung it over her toilet.  On multiple occasions she's said it's silly to try to use it in the US because we don't have royalty.  

They definitely seemed to have some kind of additional income, even by the way they lived in the book- I'm pretty sure JKO left Anthony some money.  But she also mentioned how Ralph Lauren did their entire apartment as a gratis thing for letting the place be photographed for a magazine, so they also had a lot of nice stuff by way of trading on their name.  At one point they also sold one of JFK's rocking chairs to the second highest bidder when another one went on the auction block.

Anthony's father named himself a Prince. Was never legal.  They ignored his request.  Anthony knew he wasn't a  Prince and Carole knows damn well she was never a Princess.

[Martinigirl]

4 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

The thing is, I don't begrudge her this. She is self aware enough to know that trading on a "title" from her dead husband that he didn't use in life, is tacky and trying too hard. But she's a girl from the Midwest, it's cool. She does clearly try to control herself about it. But she doesn't totally. And then to make fun of Luanne for doing the same thing? At least Lu's husband used the title while they were married. He still does and she used hers while married. Luanne logically had more right to the title until she remarried.

She's such a huge hypocrite. 

He didn't use the title because the title was a sham...made up by Anthony's father,

[ShawnaLanne]

Just now, Martinigirl said:

He didn't use the title because the title was a sham...made up by Anthony's father,

Must research. Off to the Internet's! Lol. This makes Carole even more ridiculous in her mocking of Lu.

[SCS]

6 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Yep. I have read that it's the only money he got because his father died in major debt thanks to Lee's spending and Jackie felt bad that he had no inheritance.

Carole said that she sold their apartment shortly after Anthony died. She probably got a good chunk of money from that. Clearly wasn't enough to sustain her 20 years later, or prevent her from having to appear on a reality show. 

 

Anthony was working at NBC in 1988 before he was diagnosed then went to ABC -- maybe a whopper of a life insurance policy either with the news org or maybe a private policy? The Vanity Fair article linked at the end discusses the final days of John and bff Carolyn's marriage. This one section -- 

 

Quote

“The coverage was ordered through the Joseph Kennedy office [which handles much of the Kennedy-family business],” said an insurance expert.  

-- is significant in that perhaps all the Kennedys and close family (Anthony, as has been said many times, was John's best friend), are (were) heavily insured for accidental death, early death, incapacity due to accident, driving off docks, beating young women to death and so on. 

By the way (also from link) this is Carole's pal in action as described by her ex:

Quote

 

“There was one time when Carolyn saw me at a bar lighting a cigarette for an ex-girlfriend,” he continued. “Carolyn came over, pushed the girl out of the way, got in my face, and screamed and yelled at me, and even drew a little blood from my face.

“I went home, and two minutes later Carolyn was at my door. I had to let her in or she would have knocked the whole building down. I had these tall, heavy religious candles, and she threw one through the window, smashing the windowpane, and another at the mirror above the fireplace mantel, which shattered. Then she knocked my television set and VCR onto the floor and jumped on my VCR and squashed it.

 

 

Linky goodness:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/08/john-f-kennedy-jr-carolyn-bessette-divorce-drugs-scandal

Edited August 30, 2018 by SCS
corrected place of employment booboo -- must be accurate!

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

9 minutes ago, SCS said:

 

Anthony was working at ABC before he was diagnosed -- maybe a whopper of a life insurance policy either with the news org or maybe a private policy? The Vanity Fair article linked at the end discusses the final days of John and bff Carolyn's marriage. This one section -- 

 

-- is significant in that perhaps all the Kennedys and close family (Anthony, as has been said many times, was John's best friend), are (were) heavily insured for accidental death, early death, incapacity due to accident, driving off docks, beating young women to death and so on. 

By the way (also from link) this is Carole's pal in action as described by her ex:

 

Linky goodness:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/08/john-f-kennedy-jr-carolyn-bessette-divorce-drugs-scandal

Interesting about the insurance. Wasn’t Anthony diagnosed in his very early 20s? I guess if anybody could pull strings to get something done (someone covered) it would be a Kennedy.  They get things done (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse).

Asgreed with who said the two women might have described their friendship in significantly different terms. 

All that said:  if CR really was mean to a couple of cats, I have lost what crumb of a microgram of respect I might have still had for her. You don’t cause animals discomfort just because they belonged to one of your bestie’s boyfriend’s exes.  Meanness to animals? Often precedes meanness to more vulnerable  humans (Jules). 

Kiss of death in ninja land.

[ichbin]

5 hours ago, lunastartron said:

I just wanted to say thanks for the kudos and kind words. I was originally going to DM all of you but if this season has taught me nothing else, it’s that gratitude and appreciation must be expressed publicly and on-camera (or the equivalent) in order to qualify as sincere. Wouldn’t want our own version of NutcrackerGate to develop ?

[Bugs]

Peace out Carole. I am so sick of your twisted face.

Maybe you should look at this season and how 90 percent of the time you were rolling your eyes, and contorting your face.

You ran a marathon and since then, your head has expanded. My God. It was a walkathon. You didn't create world Peace.

It's like you wanted a statue in your honor erected in Times square.

I am glad I can continue to watch what was my favorite housewives.

Bethany was right. You don't have a job.

Your resume next to Bethany's? That's a joke. The others are all jealous of her success too. 

You are one to talk about not supporting other women. None of the women give her the credit she deserves. We actually saw her start out with nothing.

 What would you like to be supported for?

Walking in the marathon, or trash talking about Bethany every time you got a chance?

You remind me of couples, where one person keeps a journal of everything the other person did so you can bring it up when you know you are caught. How pathetic reading from a list. Talk about bullying. You should get an award for that.

Good Riddance

Edited August 30, 2018 by Bugs

[918lux]

8 hours ago, Martinigirl said:

Anthony's father named himself a Prince. Was never legal.  They ignored his request.  Anthony knew he wasn't a  Prince and Carole knows damn well she was never a Princess.

Not true. The Radziwill family was granted princely status in 1515. All descendants bare the title & style of HSH Prince(ss) Radziwill.

Edited August 30, 2018 by 918lux

[ShawnaLanne]

Carole tonight on Reunion Part 2 when she pulled out her list of the "mean" things Bethenny said about her during the season. 

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[SCS]

48 minutes ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

Interesting about the insurance. Wasn’t Anthony diagnosed in his very early 20s? I guess if anybody could pull strings to get something done (someone covered) it would be a Kennedy.  They get things done (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse).

 

Yup. I corrected my post because I had the news org wrong  -- he was at NBC in '88 then went to ABC in '89. According to this 1999 obit his cancer battle  was 10 years, which would have him diagnosed in '89:

 

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1914&dat=19990813&id=PCUgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lmoFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3158,2094826 

[Martinigirl]

35 minutes ago, 918lux said:

Not true. The Radziwill family was granted princely status in 1515. All descendants bear the title & style of HSH Prince(ss) Radziwill.

The Queen never approved his title because he couldn't provide evidence  that he held the title . Ari Onasis always called him the Faux Prince.

" Let me note here that the Radziwill Catholic line were never given the title of prince, or, I should say more accurately, they gave themselves the  title but it was not accept and never was official"

[RedDelicious]

8 hours ago, SCS said:

By the way (also from link) this is Carole's pal in action as described by her ex:

 

Linky goodness:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/08/john-f-kennedy-jr-carolyn-bessette-divorce-drugs-scandal

I take anything narc Michael Bergen says with a shaker of salt. He was out for himself when he wrote that book. It's so ridiculously bad, as is/was his behavior. He tries to play the victim and it's pathetic. Nobody cared about what he had to say then and nobody cares now. I wonder if his eponymous underpants line ever took off ? @SCS Not directed at you. I just think Michael Bergen is a toolbox.

[Ki-in]

Carole NEVER calls herself a princess.

 

 

[RedDelicious]

I also wonder why we're all debating whether or not Anthony was a prince.  I always interpreted Carole's take on the matter as she (Carole) thought Luann calling herself a Countess was as ridiculous as calling herself a princess.  We don't use those titles in the United States so why walk around acting like you're better because of it (Luann).  I loved the story about the framed invitation in her bathroom.  Very cheeky :)

2 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

Carole NEVER calls herself a princess.

 

 

I love this and I love that Carole has a sense of humor about this pile of ridiculousness.

[VioletHues]

10 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

@VioletHues I wonder about that too - I interpreted the reluctance as Carole being in over her head a little.  Anthony was famous by association, if not somewhat famous himself.  She was for all intents and purposes a girl from a working class family in the suburbs.  Then they get married and then he gets diagnosed.  Nothing can really prepare you for any of that.  Carolyn, I'm not sure anyone could really get close to her.  I think their friendship was genuine, but I agree, I'm not sure if it was as significant to Carolyn as it was to Carole; she definitely had her own shit going on.  I remember one book, I think The Day John Died, referred to Carole as Carol Ratowell (really?).  Did you by chance read Fairytale Interrupted or The Other Man?  Fairytale was okay.  Carole and Anthony are mentioned.  The Other Man was probably one of the worst books I've ever read.  I mean Michael Bergen has got to be the most pathetic dude on the planet, talk about narcissist.  And yet I re-read it every couple of years, it's such a train wreck.  But yeah, the Carole/Carolyn friendship, I think they were there for each other when they needed it.  Biggie the fries :)

I agree with you with regard to Carolyn. By several accounts, she was a real piece of work. I think Carole became totally enamored with her and Carolyn probably appreciated having someone who was loyal to her unquestionably. I found their relationship to be pretty strange. 

I never read the other ones, but I am dying that she was referred to as Carol Ratowell - didn't they have a copyeditor? LOL!

[lezlers]

15 hours ago, Mozelle said:

I just hopped onto Bethenny's Twitter since I don't follow her, and before Dennis' passing she was tweeting about the show; responding to people's tweets about the show via quote tweets; tweeting about dogs; tweeting about food; sharing pictures of herself...

I follow them both.  I was referring to the tweets when the season was airing and she was immersed in Puerto Rico.  Beth was focused on providing aid to people who needed it.  Carole was focused on slamming Beth.  If you compare Beth's tweets to Carole's the difference in tone and content is striking. 

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, SCS said:

By the way (also from link) this is Carole's pal in action as described by her ex:

 

Linky goodness:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/08/john-f-kennedy-jr-carolyn-bessette-divorce-drugs-scandal

Since you brought her up, Carolyn Bessette's reputation as a woman who easily flew off the handle has been rumored for years.  Not just by Michael Bergin.

Which, for me, begs the question, why is Carole attracted to these messy, sometimes unhinged women as good friends?  Does like attract like?

I don't know much about her Most Visible (Best?) Friend of the Moment, Cassandra Grey, other than after her husband died, she started dating DJ Samantha Ronson. Who had previously spent a couple years having drunken lover's quarrels in the streets with her then-girlfriend, loco Lindsey Lohan. ?  Let that sink in for a moment.

 

 

[Mozelle]

10 hours ago, Bugs said:

Peace out Carole. I am so sick of your twisted face.

Maybe you should look at this season and how 90 percent of the time you were rolling your eyes, and contorting your face.

You ran a marathon and since then, your head has expanded. My God. It was a walkathon. You didn't create world Peace.

It's like you wanted a statue in your honor erected in Times square.

I am glad I can continue to watch what was my favorite housewives.

Bethany was right. You don't have a job.

Your resume next to Bethany's? That's a joke. The others are all jealous of her success too. 

You are one to talk about not supporting other women. None of the women give her the credit she deserves. We actually saw her start out with nothing.

 What would you like to be supported for?

Walking in the marathon, or trash talking about Bethany every time you got a chance?

You remind me of couples, where one person keeps a journal of everything the other person did so you can bring it up when you know you are caught. How pathetic reading from a list. Talk about bullying. You should get an award for that.

Good Riddance

Carole's resume (especially next to Bethenny's) is a joke? Bethenny's doing great with her current business, but I don't think Carole's Emmy is anything to sneeze at.

[Baltimore Betty]

1 minute ago, Mozelle said:

Carole's resume (especially next to Bethenny's) is a joke? Bethenny's doing great with her current business, but I don't think Carole's Emmy is anything to sneeze at.

I would never dismiss anyone's accomplishments but I think Bethenny may think she has a different work ethic from Carole.  Carole herself said on more than one occasion to her publisher that deadlines are not her thing and she can be lazy and Bethenny seems to be all work and no play 24/7.  Maybe Bethenny does not think Carole is as hard a worker as she is.  

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

@lunastartron You, Lady, RULE!

The true royalty among us, so proclaimeth every ninja in the backpack.

 

I read the VF article on the doomed CBK/Junior marriage for the first time years ago and couldn’t shake the feeling that it was partly a character assassination of CBK to help keep alive what’s left of the Kennedy mystique.

But now, Re-reading it, Junior is shown to have brought his own issues into the mix, so, no. And why do I bring this up? Because whatever Carole & Carolyn’s friendship really looked like, it was definitely not anything like the friendships I know, where coffee & wine are the big drugs and a glamorous trip is to the cafe at Neiman-Marcus. 

What I'm saying is, — and I’m probably repeating what’s been posted here, and I’m sorry to duplicate but I gotta get it out of my system: —   Carole hitched her star to Anthony (I hope in real mutual love) and thereby to his BFF Junior and thus to Carolyn and eventually, it helped her write a bestseller.

I ask:  Would the tale have been as riveting if Anthony’s cousin had been some good-looking, rich Polonian with a striking, troubled wife who’d maybe made the Society pages of the Chicago newspapers, but not much else?

i answer myself: it would’ve been, to me, because Polish relatives. To most other people? Likely not. 

Therefore, when Carole’s S5 debut sparked a resurgence of sales of WR, does it make sense for her  to remind us on teevee that  Carolyn was her bestie? Sure.

Also therefore, is it logical that having previously made friends with a HW close to her in age and with an actively successful and visible company (Heather and Yummie Tummy), when Bethenny returned — close to her age and visibly successful in business — she’d do the same thing?? saddle up!  

She began to do the same with Dorinda, who’s visibly rich and probably still is of the liberal-elite mindset that was part and parcel of her late husband’s life and which seems to have become part of Carole’s. Do we ever see Carole befriending someone who has less influence or riches than she? Jules? Ramona, whose business is successful but not visible? Kristen? She befriends Tinsley and cuts her to the quick on camera, out of the blue, during an otherwise innocuous get-together  

This has all been said before, but Carole seems to choose her friends carefully, in no small part for how useful they can be to her.  She appears, well, ruthless. And mean.  And coldly calculating.  And while she lives a far more interesting and privileged life than I can even conceive of, I wouldn’t want any part of it if I had to take all of it.   

Whew! I _Think_ I nay have finally said all I had to say about her.  

And because Dad ninja taught me well: I mean no ill will toward any of the departed spoken of, here.  May they all Rest In Peace.

[Mozelle]

@Baltimore Betty

Having a different work ethic wouldn't change the fact that Carole's accomplishments are still nothing to sneeze at or be dismissive over, which is not what you specifically did but to what I was responding from another.

Sure, the "I'll sleep when I'm dead" motto works for some people, and for others that's extreme, but either way, it's a funny thing to comment that Carole's resume is a joke, especially next to Bethenny's. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Mozelle

[Sunfield]

12 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

@VioletHues I wonder about that too - I interpreted the reluctance as Carole being in over her head a little.  Anthony was famous by association, if not somewhat famous himself.  She was for all intents and purposes a girl from a working class family in the suburbs.  Then they get married and then he gets diagnosed.  Nothing can really prepare you for any of that.  Carolyn, I'm not sure anyone could really get close to her.  I think their friendship was genuine, but I agree, I'm not sure if it was as significant to Carolyn as it was to Carole; she definitely had her own shit going on.  I remember one book, I think The Day John Died, referred to Carole as Carol Ratowell (really?).  Did you by chance read Fairytale Interrupted or The Other Man?  Fairytale was okay.  Carole and Anthony are mentioned.  The Other Man was probably one of the worst books I've ever read.  I mean Michael Bergen has got to be the most pathetic dude on the planet, talk about narcissist.  And yet I re-read it every couple of years, it's such a train wreck.  But yeah, the Carole/Carolyn friendship, I think they were there for each other when they needed it.  Biggie the fries :)

Thanks for this. I’d heard of Bergen but didn’t want to read his book. If it’s of interest, I’ve read Come to the Edge and honestly thought it was much more insightful and enjoyable writing and read than Carole’s book. JFK Jr was a jerk imo and I was surprised to discover that. As a result of reading tho, I finally understood all of that crowd better including Anthony and Carolyn.  

 

Witnessing Carole as her personality unfolded during RHONY is reminiscent of how she was then. I believe Carole speaks so highly of Anthony because it gives her esteem and cred by extension. She may have loved him but I can’t remember... a lot of her book was “woe is me” rather than about genuinely loving her husband but maybe I’m forgetting those parts?

 

Of all of their friends crowd, Anthony Radziwill does seem to have been far more decent human being than JFK Jr and his wife. Carole tho, in her book What Remains, seemed childish, petulant and rather cold about her husband as he was so ill.... I’ll never forget that now after seeing her on this show and witnessing her display the same behaviour, attitudes and petulance on tv. I had a similar opinion of Carolyn Bessette after reading What Remains. 

Relevant bit - Bessette was similar in her friendships as Carole. Came in fast and hot and made fun of Carole and her style. I wonder now if Carole hasn’t tried to be like Bessette since they all died. It’s all very strange to see Carole today vs Carole the journalism person.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Sunfield
Clarity

[Ki-in]

35 minutes ago, Sunfield said:

She may have loved him but I can’t remember... a lot of her book was “woe is me” rather than about genuinely loving her husband but maybe I’m forgetting those parts?

Carole tho, in her book What Remains, seemed childish, petulant and rather cold about her husband as he was so ill....

 

Carole wrote in her book about flirting with and kissing a married man while Anthony was dying. Someone like Lu would have been vilified and ripped to shreds. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Ki-in

[walnutqueen]

12 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

Carole wrote in her book about flirting with and kissing a married man while Anthony was dying. Someone like Lu would have been vilified and ripped to shreds. 

 

Wow, Carole. Just Wow.

Edited August 30, 2018 by walnutqueen

[trimthatfat]

1 hour ago, Mozelle said:

Carole's resume (especially next to Bethenny's) is a joke? Bethenny's doing great with her current business, but I don't think Carole's Emmy is anything to sneeze at.

This. I mean I guess bedazzled jeans are an accomplishment, but I’d take an Emmy over that any day. 

And it kind of bugs me that the show isn’t considered a “career” in itself. Carole was getting paid to be a television personality - that to me is legit. She’s also knocking on 60 - is it really that weird that she would prefer to wind down and focus on working on the show for the most part? I find it troubling that Carole’s career is being dismissed because it should be more about quality than quantity in my eyes.

[QuinnM]

6 minutes ago, trimthatfat said:

And it kind of bugs me that the show isn’t considered a “career” in itself. Carole was getting paid to be a television personality - that to me is legit. She’s also knocking on 60 - is it really that weird that she would prefer to wind down and focus on working on the show for the most part? I find it troubling that Carole’s career is being dismissed because it should be more about quality than quantity in my eyes.

No one cares but she does nothing all day. She has more free time than someone with children who works for a living. That was Bethenny’s point.  And being part owner of a dozen cats is not a job. 

[vetiver]

I don't believe for a second that Carole was fired. The producers would've loved to see this fight carry on to the next season.

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

The part I recall sadly from WR is after the crash, C spent her time crying in the swimming pool and at one point Anthony finally told her that he needed her...and she couldn’t / wouldn’t respond. She admits this.  And I admit I thought it was very dickish of her - to do it and to write about it  I don’t remember there being snybregret, just, “I was SO OVERCOME I couldn’t muster up some sympathy for my dying spouse.”

I’ll  have to re-check it out at the library, but first the other memoirs mentioned above!

[Ki-in]

6 minutes ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

 “I was SO OVERCOME I couldn’t muster up some sympathy for my dying spouse.”

 

Damn that is some ice water in her veins.

Apparently she also couldn't muster up any sympathy or comfort for Adam when his plane had that hard landing and he was scared he and his dad would crash. It supposedly drove a bit of a wedge between them because HER trauma of 20 years ago superseded his current emotional state. How she was any comfort to anyone like her friend the widow Grey is a mystery to me.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Ki-in

[ryebread]

Just now, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

"I was SO OVERCOME I couldn’t muster up some sympathy for my dying spouse.”

There is a picture I saw a long time ago of Anthony and Carole on the boat the day they did the memorial at sea for John and Carolyn that feels like it jibes with what you read.

Carole and Anthony are sitting far apart and just looking beaten. I'm not saying they didn't lean on each other through this time, but they looked worlds apart in that picture and it just struck me as terribly, terribly sad. Anthony died two weeks later. Such a tragic time for all concerned.

Quote

I’ll  have to re-check it out at the library, but first the other memoirs mentioned above!

Tell me when you're ready to read it, and I'll read it, too. Let's start a book club thread this fall. ?

[ryebread]

13 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

How she was any comfort to anyone like her friend the widow Grey is a mystery to me.

I kind of understand why she couldn't/wouldn't offer comfort to Bethenny considering the ashes of their friendship. But I'll never understand why she took to Twitter so soon to drag her.  Maybe we should have paid more attention when Carole told us herself that she's just not a hugger.  Physically or emotionally.

[RedDelicious]

2 hours ago, Sunfield said:

Thanks for this. I’d heard of Bergen but didn’t want to read his book. If it’s of interest, I’ve read Come to the Edge and honestly thought it was much more insightful and enjoyable writing and read than Carole’s book. JFK Jr was a jerk imo and I was surprised to discover that. As a result of reading tho, I finally understood all of that crowd better including Anthony and Carolyn. 

Thank you for the tip!  Getting it on my Kindle right now, just in time for the long weekend :)  I thought JFK Jr. was a total jerk too - majorly ADD and totally clueless.  I wonder if he was also somewhere on the spectrum.  I don't know how Carolyn ever put up with any of it.  Which is not to say having those personality characteristics is inherently bad, but seek treatment.  Lort.

[ryebread]

He was two weeks from passing away himself.  He's mourning the loss of his best friend and cousin. The pure strength, of body and mind, it must've taken to get on that boat...((Anthony)) 

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/kennedy-and-bessette-family-members-stand-on-the-coast-news-photo/51604357#/kennedy-and-bessette-family-members-stand-on-the-coast-guard-boat-on-picture-id51604357

[Rosiejuliemom]

3 hours ago, Mozelle said:

Carole's resume (especially next to Bethenny's) is a joke? Bethenny's doing great with her current business, but I don't think Carole's Emmy is anything to sneeze at.

Nor the Peabody.

[918lux]

1 hour ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

The part I recall sadly from WR is after the crash, C spent her time crying in the swimming pool and at one point Anthony finally told her that he needed her...and she couldn’t / wouldn’t respond. She admits this.  And I admit I thought it was very dickish of her - to do it and to write about it  I don’t remember there being snybregret, just, “I was SO OVERCOME I couldn’t muster up some sympathy for my dying spouse.”

I’ll  have to re-check it out at the library, but first the other memoirs mentioned above!

I think it's unfair to try to characterize it as though Carole was being a dick.  Everyone knew Anthony was dying.  Even JFK Jr. expressed frustration with Anthony lacking the ability to really admit that he was dying and allow everyone to start saying their goodbyes and making their peace with the situation.  In her first season, Carole tells Heather in St. Barth's that she wished she had some sort of goodbye with Anthony, but that he fought all the way to the end.  I'm not saying it wasn't his right, but it had to be excruciating to be watching your spouse die right in front of you and then suddenly have the people you felt you were going to lean on for support once he passed be killed.  I think it would be an incredibly isolating and terrible experience and to act like she wasn't entitled to feel a huge amount of grief would be unfair.

 

As far as the part in the book where she mentions being on location working and kissing another man- I totally understand.  Her married life had been nothing but care-taking.  In one moment she wanted to feel like a normal 30 something woman.  I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying I understand how in that moment she did what she did.  I also think it was incredibly honest of her to be willing to write it.  

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

@918lux, your points are well taken. I’ve not, thank heavens, been in that situation. But I also continue to think the book could’ve done without that vignette. I dunno, I just dunno.