S02.E13: We Have Manners. We're Polite.

[bravelittletoaster]

I've got some bad news for you, then....

 

Khaki Carrie Bradshaw

 

Yeah, they're both blonde.  The similarity is striking.  

Edited August 14, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[ChicksDigScars]

Isn't it though? (sarcasm noted, and responded in kind)

 

Both are blond and self-involved. Can't see anything other than how it affects them. Basically, childish, self-absorbed assholes. 

 

IMO, Piper falls into this category, as well. Maybe not as much of a superficial twat as Carrie, but that's only because she went to prison and came crashing down to reality. She's learning. But, she's still self-absorbed, And as Suzanne famously told her, she's just not a nice person.

 

This quote from Miranda to Carrie, regarding her relationship with Big, might as well be about Piper and Alex: 

 

"Jesus, every time you get near him, you turn into this pathetic, needy, insecure victim, and the thing that pisses me off the most? You're more than willing to go right back for more."

 

Swap out "him" for "her,"  and it's Piper whenever Alex comes within sniffing distance. How many times does Alex get to shit on Piper and cause her more trouble, before Piper buys a fucking clue at the commissary?  

[Cranberry]

They're both blonde, they both like to write, and they're both flawed/sometimes unlikable. They don't strike me as very similar aside from those superficial things. There are many examples of codependent/"bad" relationships on TV, so that's nothing new.

 

I actually enjoy the fact that Piper is such an asshole sometimes. If she were a sweet, awesome person, she'd be boring to watch (plus I know people would be complaining about the white POV character being a Mary Sue).

[tvfanatic13]

Finally caught up. Loved the finale! I for one, however, do not believe that Vee is 100% dead. We shall see...

[allthatglitters]

I too am a little late to the finale party.

 

I'd say Piper's tip on Alex was done mostly because as she put it, "you're all I have left".  If a powerful drug lord wants you dead, prison is probably one of the most dangerous places to be, so "keeping her safe" is not even a consideration from her. She knew that this was it, the connection to her last and only love interest was just going to vanish forever. That's when the crazy 14 year old Nancy Drew maniac inner Piper did the only thing that could stop it.

 

Alex should be pissed. But doesn't this more or less even the score for Alex's betrayal  in the first place? Which was kinda major, and the whole reason Piper ever ended up in jail and her life ruined.

 

Daya/John; I don't know why the producers want to drag us through their story any longer. Both of them are stupid and needlessly create drama in each of their cases causing repercussions and more problems. And its all so easy.  Daya could order the DNA test, (even if puzzlingly no one else does). That test would show Pornstache isn't the daddy….that's all.  So that cuts him out of the future right there. Then they just wait out her sentence, with discretion, and then go have a family. I'm sure Daya's grandmother would look after the baby until she was out. John could even drop in and lend his support off work. Keep everything on the downlow until she is out, then its not up to anyone else who John hooks up with. Especially with a free woman...and of course her baby, who looks remarkably like her "stepdad". A baby who never even has to know John isn't officially regarded as her biological father.

 

One thing that bugged. The sirens at the end during the scene of Rosa driving off into the sunset. No police cars, just faint sirens. But the implication is that they are not that far behind. That kinda ruined my made-up ending where Rosa gets away somewhere safe to live out her last few weeks away from the place she hates so much.  Whether she makes it to a family or friends home who takes her in, or just takes a dirt road and finds an abandoned cottage somewhere and breaks in. Anything but being dragged back after having such a glimpse of the outside and a taste of freedom so close to the end.

Edited August 20, 2014 by allthatglitters

[WearyTraveler]

One thing that bugged. The sirens at the end during the scene of Rosa driving off into the sunset. No police cars, just faint sirens. But the implication is that they are not that far behind. That kinda ruined my made-up ending where Rosa gets away somewhere safe to live out her last few weeks away from the place she hates so much.  Whether she makes it to a family or friends home who takes her in, or just takes a dirt road and finds an abandoned cottage somewhere and breaks in. Anything but being dragged back after having such a glimpse of the outside and a taste of freedom so close to the end.

 

Earlier Rosa mentioned that she always thought she'd go out in a blaze of glory.  I think she even mentions Bonnie and Clyde, so, her hope seemed to have been to actually be gunned down while trying to escape / making a last stand.  I took the sirens to have two purposes: one, to indicate that pursuers were approaching (which is totally realistic, the prison guards are not just going to stand there staring at her dust, they're going to get into their cars and follow); and two, since they could be heard after the face change into young Rosa, to indicate a sort of flashback to when Rosa had first been caught, which would have been after a police chase.  So, this time, when the sirens catch up to her, Rosa is not going to let herself be captured, she is either going to drive off a cliff or do something to make the cops shoot her.

Edited August 20, 2014 by WearyTraveler

[Guest]

The writing that bugged me was that Rosa wasn't given compassionate release.  I mean, if we're going for reality, isn't that kind of what it's there for?  Though was the story that the DOC wouldn't spring for a measly hysterectomy to save her life?  How real is that?  

 

I was happy it ended as well as it did, though.  I thought for sure Rosa was going to plow down Caputo and Ingalls AND the nuns, then when she didn't, I thought she'd swerve to miss Vee (or to hit her) and smack into a tree and die.  

 

The gaggle of nuns and the banjolele was the funniest thing in both seasons.  

[oceanblue]

The lady who got compassionate release had Alzheimer's - she was released not due to compassion but because they don't want to deal with her.  The message I got was that there is no such thing as real compassionate release.

[peggy06]

Finished last night, and what an ending! I can't say I'm sorry to see the last of Vee. The character almost ruined the season for me. I just didn't enjoy the "tribes" thing, and her general horribleness made every scene with her unpleasant to watch. I've always liked Lorraine Toussaint, going back to the L&O mothership, but I prefer her when she isn't a dyed-in-the-wool evil person. Like, I HATED Taystee and Pussey being on the outs, seeing Poussey so miserable and turning to the booze. I also was bored with the Red versus Vee thing. For a minute there I thought they were going to go with "Vee is trapped in the tunnel" as a way to end her - glad they didn't, because (a) that's too horrific even for her, and (b) the way they did end it was a very good finale.

 

Also glad to see Fig get her comeuppance. Is it me, or has Caputo been rehabilitated from his early appearances in S1? He's now a fairly decent guy?

 

Having set up the Daya/Bennet/Mendez plot the way they did, they kind of got stuck in a corner. The resolution wasn't completely satisfactory - Mendez really was set up, so his fate seems a little harsh, while John gets off scot-free. I'm not too interested in this plot, but I do like Daya. She's been shown to be a thoughtful person with aspirations way beyond her mother. She has decent instincts. I was glad that they showed her remorse over what she did with Mendez, and understood why she was so disappointed in Bennett. The show went out of the way to point up the difference between the two men, making Mendez actually look better momentarily. Now that the way's been made smoother for the baby, I wouldn't mind that subplot being dialed back though.

 

Larry and Polly do make a better couple, but I can't stand Larry and don't like Polly much better. I've loathed Larry ever since he tried to make Piper's sentence all about him, glomming onto it to raise his own profile, even trying to steal the other reporter's story. Piper had him pegged with the moon thing. Plus, he's such a baby, depending on his parents for a place to live, and just mooching around like he does. I thought the show was satirizing the type brilliantly, but they tried to rehabilitate him this season what with being such a good homebody/surrogate dad. Eh. Still can't stand him. And Polly seems like such a self-centered person.

 

Hope there's more discussion to come. That's the worst of these Netflix shows, hard to keep a conversation going.

Edited September 15, 2014 by peggy06

[Lovecat]

Is it me, or has Caputo been rehabilitated from his early appearances in S1? He's now a fairly decent guy?

"Fairly decent" might be a stretch for the guy who blackmails a woman into giving him head (no matter that that woman was Fig, or that he had no intention of delivering on his promise). I couldn't help but feel just a tiny bit sorry for him as he tried to deal with the shitstorm that broke loose in the prison, though...and then I was mad at myself for feeling sorry for him. He's a complicated character!

[peggy06]

"Fairly decent" might be a stretch for the guy who blackmails a woman into giving him head (no matter that that woman was Fig, or that he had no intention of delivering on his promise). I couldn't help but feel just a tiny bit sorry for him as he tried to deal with the shitstorm that broke loose in the prison, though...and then I was mad at myself for feeling sorry for him. He's a complicated character!

That's one of the great things about most of the characters, though. They are all complicated. Vee is the closest to being an out-and-out villain. But we've seen the postiive and negative sides of most of the rest. They may care about their friends, but they're willing to do awful things to the rest. It's more pronounced than on most shows.

Edited September 15, 2014 by peggy06

[halgia]

"Fairly decent" might be a stretch for the guy who blackmails a woman into giving him head (no matter that that woman was Fig, or that he had no intention of delivering on his promise).

I think there's a pretty big difference between if Caputo had gone into that situation intending to use the situation to force her to do that, versus going in to gloat and just accepting it when she started. Obviously what he did is not an acceptable thing to do, but I wouldn't call it blackmailing her into giving him head....

[Lovecat]

Blackmailed, manipulated, or just plain took advantage of the situation (Because now that you mention it, Fig did initiate, in an attempt to cover her own ass. It's been a while since I watched the episode.), however you put it, it was still not the action of a guy *I'd* describe as "fairly decent," and no semantic debate is going to change that. My word choice may not have been the best, but my point is still the same.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Lovecat

[JustAlison]

 

the guy who blackmails a woman into giving him head

 

Blackmailed, manipulated, or just plain took advantage of the situation (Because now that you mention it, Fig did initiate,

 

 

I watched this scene a few times. What I see is Fig trying to manipulate Caputo with sex, thereby taking advantage of him.  Fig is not a powerless character without choices that Caputo could take advantage of, like the prisoners. She is a character who used her position of authority to promote her own self interests, with no thought or care for those who were placed in her charge. The fact that she tried to weasel out of consequences by slipping to her knees isn't on anyone but her. For me, it's a dangerous road when women aren't held accountable for their actions, sexual or otherwise, because they are women. In no way was Caputo shown to be coercing her, so I take issue with the idea that she is somehow his victim because he has the penis. Blackmailing, manipulating, and taking advantage of the situation, are all ways I would describe Fig, not Caputo.

 

That being said, him accepting the bj was gross, and I concur that it dropped his 'decency meter' a few points, in my book anyway.

Edited September 15, 2014 by JustAlison

[Lovecat]

Well it seems that I am just not using my words effectively here, and will respectively leave the debate. My opinion is still that Caputo is not a "fairly decent" guy, which was the question posed by the OP.

[bravelittletoaster]

Even though Caputo's shady as fuck, he also has these human moments where he's clearly [to me] trying to do the right thing.  Flawed as hell to be sure, but not irredeemable.  I kind of grudgingly like him, even though he does some terrible things.  Pretty much all my favorite characters on this show do some terrible things.  

[pievancouver]

Loved the season finale.

Question: what was that thing that Norma and Gloria made for Vee? 

[CherithCutestory]

IMO, Piper falls into this category, as well. Maybe not as much of a superficial twat as Carrie, but that's only because she went to prison and came crashing down to reality. She's learning. But, she's still self-absorbed, And as Suzanne famously told her, she's just not a nice person.

 

 

How many people on this show aren't self-absorbed? Everyone is self-absorbed. Most of them see it as survival in there. Piper just actually acknowledges that she is self-absorbed and privileged.

 

And Suzanne doesn't have a lot of room to talk about nice people. While she is clearly mentally unstable and I feel for her the fact is Piper didn't do anything to her except tell her fiance the 100% honest to God truth.

Edited December 17, 2014 by CherithCutestory

[Lady Calypso]

Mendez really was set up, so his fate seems a little harsh, while John gets off scot-free

 

 

Eh, I feel bad only due to him being prosecuted for raping and impregnating Daya, but in the long run, he's being put into jail for the right reasons. Daya's not the only girl he's had sex with. He was giving blow jobs and sexually harassing the female inmates all throughout the first season, so it's not totally undeserved. Just about 20%. 

 

After watching all the seasons in the last four and a half days, I'll say this finale wasn't as satisfying as I hoped, but it was decent enough. It wrapped up a lot, but also left a lot to be explored. Vee's damage hopefully has lasting consequences. Taystee and Suzanne, especially, are gonna be the most affected. 

 

Poor Rosa; I'm glad she gets to go out with a bang. I really grew to love her this season, though. Her interactions with the cancer kid were fantastic and as much as I'd love for her to stick around, I get that she'll probably die early next season. 

 

Nicky's storyline is going to be sad, that's for sure.

 

Alex being put back into jail? I can't say that I missed her at all this season and I can't say I'm thrilled she's back. I'm just 'meh' on her in general. 

[gunderda]

I just watched both seasons in the past 3 days (yay vacation)

I'm glad this finale didn't have a cliff hanger. I finished season 1 at like 12:30 am and then cursed out the tv that I had to stay up longer to watch season 2 ep 1

Awhile back I watched a tv show about real life cancer patients that died. It was basically about them dying. Some cancer drugs can do a number on your body/appearance so Rosa's older appearance didn't seem that off to me.

I also wish they would get rid of the daya/Bennett storyline. It's boring.

[Fisher King]

I  loved the finale.  Glad Vee got her comeuppance, but that doesn't guarantee that she's dead.

 

I can do without Larry, but I love Polly. So they can both stay if they don't take up too much screen time.

 

Love everyone's comments here. You've said it all and I have nothing really to add.

 

When will we get season 3?

[gunderda]

 

 

When will we get season 3?

 

I googled the minute I finished season 2 and what I read was mid-2015. Whether there's anything truth to that, I don't know but it seemed pretty reliable.

[Fisher King]

Thanks, gunderda! 

I guess I'm lucky to have just finished S2 and don't have as long a wait as everyone else. 

I'll be jonesing soon enough I suppose.

[OrangeCrush]

I  loved the finale.  Glad Vee got her comeuppance, but that doesn't guarantee that she's dead.

 

Come on, Vee has to be dead! I do not believe anyone can be knocked unconscious and their eyes remain open! It just doesn't happen. That fixed glazed look in her eyes and the trickle of blood was a sure sing of a C.O.D. of blunt force trauma to the head (not to mention massive internal injuries from being slammed by the front grill of a speeding van).

 

As for the release date of S3. If Netflix keeps up their past pattern look for a release at 12:01 EDT AM June 5.

Edited January 5, 2015 by OrangeCrush

[ShellSeeker]

I powered through both seasons of this show in a few days, and loved it. Great, complex characters that I like in spite of doing things I really hate. 

 

The only thing I'm completely over is the Daya/Bennett storyline. She's an idiot. When she told John that where she came from, "real men" stand up and take responsibility (or whatever that line was), I wanted to reach through the TV and smack her. Um, you're in prison. You had an affair with a guard. It's not like he can whisk you away and the 2 of you can ride off into the sunset together. It was such a stupid thing to say, and she did not start out as a stupid character. And he's an even bigger moron for hooking up with her in the first place.

[CherithCutestory]

I am sick of Daya/Bennet too. But I am on her side. I don't get why Bennett is the only person on the show who shouldn't have to face the consequences of his actions. He is as much of a criminal as anyone else there. All of the girls there had to face consequences of their crimes. Piper is constantly criticized for not being willing to do so (even though she has repeatedly admitted to being guilty, deserving her sentence, and is in prison).

 

He is the father of a child. It is his legal and moral obligation to take care of that child. He has not suggested any plan to do so. And doesn't actually seem to be planning to do so, at all. He does need to step up. He is totally in the wrong.

Edited January 11, 2015 by CherithCutestory

[Lady Calypso]

I am sick of Daya/Bennet too. But I am on her side. I don't get why Bennett is the only person on the show who shouldn't have to face the consequences of his actions. He is as much of a criminal as anyone else there.....He is the father of a child. It is his legal and moral obligation to take care of that child. He has not suggested any plan to do so. And doesn't actually seem to be planning to do so, at all. He does need to step up. He is totally in the wrong.

 

 

I agree with some of this. I do think he owes it to her to own up some responsibility, and he doesn't seem to have a plan while Daya does. It doesn't seem like they've discussed this at all, and with all the whispering they do, I'm sure they can find the time to discuss a solid plan, but Bennett doesn't seem to have even really done that. He does need to step up, absolutely. However, the one thing I disagree with is that he's totally in the wrong. I think he's made some valid points on his own regarding him going to prison. What good is that going to do for his child? I know it's a complex situation anyway and I get Daya wanting him to step up, but him going to prison actually won't help. He'll lose his job, he'll lose any financial support he could have provided, he'll be in the same boat as Daya with not being able to get a good job after getting out and being labelled a sexual predator will make it that much harder for him. He can still be there for the baby, especially after he or she is born. He'll be able to help Daya's mother while Daya serves the rest of her time. Yes, it'll make things a lot more complicated but on his end, he's looking at how difficult things will be once being labelled a criminal. Sadly, Daya is still young so she probably doesn't realize the difficulty in getting a job with that label. Bennett must have learned some of it while going through training. He also has his prosthetic leg so that also could make things more complicated.

 

He's a criminal, in a way, and he's an idiot and he needs to start really thinking about things and how they're going to work once the baby is born, but Daya is also in the wrong and thinking way too short term. She's just thinking of having that fairy tale romance, with her and Bennett after they both get out of prison and not about the consequences it will have on them financially and emotionally. I get Daya's reasoning, just as I get Bennett's, and personally I think both of them are stupid for getting themselves into this mess, but it's happened, it can't be undone, and I hate to be that person because I'm usually not, but they just happened to fall in love and made a crucial 'in the moment' mistake. But yeah, Bennett won't be able to legally declare himself the father, they have Mendez as the father so he'll be a problem once he gets out and they'll have to figure out what to tell their child, but they're screwed either way. Daya seems to be fairly independent, but she also is not thinking clearly about this and I have a feeling either way, she'll end up resenting Bennett in the future, either for not pronouncing himself as the father or not being able to financially care for their child or whatever. 

[CherithCutestory]

I know it's a complex situation anyway and I get Daya wanting him to step up, but him going to prison actually won't help.

 

 

But what has going to prison done to help any of them? There are mothers of children in there. They won't be able to get jobs. Why is Bennett the only one who is so blessed as to not to deserve to go to prison for his crimes? He is just as much of a criminal as anyone else in there.

 

And, from her POV, it has to be infuriating to be in prison for crimes committed and have this guy talk about it like it is unthinkable that he should have to pay the consequences for breaking the law.

 

Piper has been berated for thinking she shouldn't have gone to jail for carrying a bag once. Something she also did because she was in love. And she backtracked on that line of thought very early on. He intentionally entered into a sexual relationship with someone who he had power over knowing it was a violation of PREA.  If Piper should be in prison for carrying money on a plane Bennett should be in prison.

 

A white male veteran is more likely to find a job out of prison than most of those girls.

 

It isn't that I don't sympathize with his concerns. But he doesn't seem to actually be planning on having a role in his child's life, at all. So, I don't think his economic argument matters much if he won't be using his money on his kid. And I don't think he should be the only one on the show immune from legal consequences.

 

She's just thinking of having that fairy tale romance, with her and Bennett after they both get out of prison and not about the consequences it will have on them financially and emotionally.

 

 

I don't think she thinks that, at all.  She would never have done what she did, setting up Pornstache, had she thought that. She just doesn't want to continue with the lies or covering for his crime. It was more difficult than she thought to live with herself having set up someone.  And she wants him to stand up for his own child. And, realistically, the only way to do that is to tell the truth.

Edited January 12, 2015 by CherithCutestory

[Lady Calypso]

But what has going to prison done to help any of them? There are mothers of children in there. They won't be able to get jobs. Why is Bennett the only one who is so blessed as to not to deserve to go to prison for his crimes? He is just as much of a criminal as anyone else in there.

 

 

I do get that and I'm not disagreeing. Bennett is a different kind of criminal, yes, but still one. I'm definitely in agreement that he should get consequences for sleeping with an inmate. In love or not, it is a crime and setting up Pornstache was obviously the stupidest move they could get themselves into (not that Pornstache is innocent in anyway and deserves punishment for his own crimes). I just think that, in Bennett's POV, he hasn't done anything as wrong as the other people in prison have. I disagree with this completely, but I can see his point of view. He has a chance to stay out of prison and still being able to care for his child without compromising his job. We don't really get much of their POV in terms of their child, though, so we don't completely know his reasoning but this is what I get out of his scenes. He probably thinks he doesn't deserve to go to prison because he hasn't done anything wrong. I just think that if he is thinking solely about his child, he may be thinking more about the financial aspect and how they're going to survive. He is a white male who might have had a better life than Daya has. Now, we don't know if he was better or worse off since we don't know his backstory, but at the moment we can assume that he had a better life. Daya knows a hard life where money didn't mean a thing, or not that much, and that family is everything. 

 

I think my point is that both of them have very valid points to the situation, because both have led presumably incredibly different or polarizing lives. Both have clearly had hardships, though, and they want their child to have a better life. 

 

A white male veteran is more likely to find a job out of prison than most of those girls.

 

 

You probably have a point there. I do think he'll definitely find a job easier than Daya or any of the other girls, but I do think 'sexual predator' stamped on his record will hinder that, no matter how much or how little. 

 

I don't think she thinks that, at all.  She would never have done what she did, setting up Pornstache, had she thought that. She just doesn't want to continue with the lies or covering for his crime

 

 

Ok, fair enough. I do think a little bit differently about this, and wasn't the whole reason she set up Pornstache was so Bennett wouldn't get in trouble? When I think this, I guess I connect it to a possible thought of her wanting Bennett in the baby's life and for them to live together with their child happily out of prison. Daya was willing to go all the way to frame Pornstache just to save Bennett, but also to keep him in the baby's life while she was still in prison. Of course, once Daya's mother was confirmed to be free by the time the baby was born and that she felt guilty for sleeping with Pornstache that she wanted Bennett to be truthful. Although she does actually do a lot of flip flopping in the second season about telling the truth and keeping up with the lie. 

 

It is a complicated situation, though, and I'm sure Daya is still fairly early in her pregnancy (or, like, three/four months along...I'm not really sure) so it'll take time to really figure out something. She only seemed to feel guilty about sleeping with Bennett, though, when she found out she was pregnant so it only became an issue once a third factor was involved. I do agree with Daya that Bennett needs to stand up and at least he finally does that in this finale. It's just that I also get why he took so long to do it.

[possibilities]

Daya might feel less guilty about framing Pornstache if she realized what he did to Tricia and the other women on his list before. And if Bennett would say that he is keeping silent for the baby, so he could provide, so they wouldn't be separated, etc-- she might be willing to listen, but he always frames it as his own well-being on the line. Also, she's angry because he refused to wear a condom, and he has never apologized for any of what is happening. He was even laughing off her desire to take pre-natal vitamins.

 

One thing I don't understand is why, if the reporter could figure it out, Caputo himself is not able to see the embezzling. The reporter was using public records, and something like an entire gym being not there is huge. That wasn't small potatoes embezzlement. Fig was taking hundreds of thousands of dollars. The amount of difference it made in the facilities was not a matter of shaving a little around the edges. Yoga saying that Alderson was way better, had classes and activities etc is also a clue that Litchfield is more than a little impacted by Fig's removing money from the system. I realize that Caputo is not spending his days doing an investigation. But I thought that he ought to be able to know that certain giant improvements, like the gym, had been approved-- it's the sort of thing that would be in the media as a big project, and then... nothing? He knew the cameras didn't work, and that's the sort of thing that would not ever be cut from a prison budget. But even if I handwave that he legitimately didn't suspect or have reason to suspect the budget woes were manufactured, why couldn't he put it together once he had the documents Piper turned over to him, and access to everything else in Fig's desk? (Btw: equally not credible that the offices are not locked. Even the desk drawers and ifle cabinets in a place like that would be locked).

 

Caputo also didn't seem to understand that the warden himself could not possibly be trustworthy, because even if people under Fig didn't know what the budget was like, surely anyone over her would know. So the warden must have been looking the other way the whole time. So why would he be trustworthy about prosecuting Fig? To do so admits he wasn't doing his own job overseeing the place. Caputo should probably have gone to the media or someone above the warden, and not left things to be handled in-house. He knows they have been looking the other way on rape and other scandals. Why would he expect them to handle Fig properly, either?

 

All that aside, though, I loved the season and the finale. I'm another one who didn't miss Alex or the Piper-Alex drama. I found Vee believably evil, but I agree that it wasn't interesting to watch her. What I thought was interesting about her story was the way the other characters were illuminated by her. We learned a lot about Red, and everyone in and in resistance to, Vee's posse.

 

Suzanne breaks my heart. I want her to be loved and accepted. In S1 she was crying listening to her poetry and devotion being mocked on Larry's NPR interview, and now she's crying because V framed her and she's now alone again, after again being devoted and giving her heart. It's so painful, I don't really have words for how painful it is.

 

Cheesy though it was, I enjoyed Rosa's escape. I think it's notable that Lorna was the one to think of it, not Rosa. My assumption was that she would drive herself into a wall of off a cliff, and she was just looking for the right place to do it. When she deliberately swerved to hit V, I was pleased. It did look like V is dead, and I hope she is. If not, I suppose she might be able to bargain for remaining in Litchfield by giving up the location of the tunnel. This gives Caputo a way to bury the scandal AND plug the hole in security. It seems like the kind of plea deal that would be on the table. But I agree she sure looked dead.

 

I was touched by Doggett telling Healy that no one had ever talked to her before, and her trying to make him feel better about himself by telling him she'd made a friend because of what she learned from him. Her making an attempt to use words instead of violence seemed sincere, to me, even though she has a long way to go to do it well. I also kind of like her philosophy that being blunt is better than pussyfooting around, even though I'm sure it's a pros and cons type of thing.

 

Nicky deserves more story next season. I love her and she was mostly a side player in other people's dramas this year. I don't want to see her using heroin again, but that stash really seemed to mesmerize her in the end. I was glad Boo thought of the possibility that admin might not believe it came from V, and would possibly think it belonged to Nicky and Boo if they tried to turn it in. But I also don't want Boo to become a dealer, so I'm not sure what I think the options are. That would be a lot of product to conspire to flush. I hate Boo for turning on Red, but she was kind of right that carrying that volume around, even just to move it or turn it in, was a hugely risky idea. So what can they do?

 

I loved that "all you have to do is ask" if you want help cursing V. I have a friend who practices santeria, and my interpretation was that the offering they made would be interpreted to contribute to all the rectifying fallout, not only V's death. Her posse turning against her, saving Suzanne from being framed, Red's recovery, and V's death-- all of it. It would depend to some extent on exactly how they framed the request, but it could have been something like: "take care of this situation." An example from life is that my friend's husband was lying to her and cheating on her and she did one of these prayers/offerings to make him stop. In her mind, this meant he would come clean and become faithful to her and they would repair the marriage. But what actually happened was that he came to her and confessed his affairs and told her he wanted a divorce. She was very upset but attributed his no longer sneaking around and lying to her as due to the orisha intervention, even though it didn't take the form she imagined. I have seen this many times-- that making a prayer and offering with an intention is then seen as having catalyzed resolution and rectification, rather than as having totally controlled the form it comes in.

[Kalliste]

I really loved the final of the season! I think it is probably one of my favourite episodes of the show at all. I was glad to see Vee go and Rosa stealing the van and smacking right into her! I thought maybe Vee would run onto the road but it was nice to see Rosa take aim and take that sucker out.

 

I also loved the songs to the nuns, hah! Caputo is in for a rough for days/weeks.. hopefully he can still keep the job though and do better with the extra funds than Fig did.

 

While I understand the "John is a criminal and should be in prison" argument I still think it's better for everyone involved if he doesn't confess and can help Daya and the baby out later rather than just being another Daddy in prison. The entire storyline is a bit of a snoozefest to me but the thing I can just not understand is why he didn't wear a condom! And why Daya didn't freaking making him. How stupid are they?

 

I hope Healy gets the support/love he so dearly seems to need as he seems to have the potential to be a good man but just, isn't.

 

I also really liked Doggett's new "lesbian" haircut (and Sophia's for that matter).

[jay741982]

I am not invested in Larry and Polly's relationship, and I don't think I'd mind if I never saw them again, but I think they are better together than Larry and Piper were.  Piper was out of Larry's league (in my opinion).  Piper takes risks, has travelled (with a drug smuggler/distributor/dealer/whatever).  She's prepared to stand on the edge of reason for love or her values.  Mean while, Larry is too safe.  Boring.  I feel as though he is tethered to his parents.  Polly suits him in that sense.  She's safe and boring too.

Maybe it's me but I think Polly is a shitty friend. I know Piper Cheated on Larry but Polly was supposed to be on Pipers side and not Fuck Larry. I have a problem with a guy or girl screwing the friend of their current GF/BF or moving on from them to their friend. It says that friend is shitty. I know I would never screw an ex of my best friend or Choose that Girlfriend of my Bestie over my Bestie

[Armchair Critic]

I am way late to the party... but no mention of Caputo's beer can dick? ;)

[atlantaloves]

Well, I as a newcomer to this show, LOVED LOVED LOVED this ending...wow! So glad Vee is dead dead dead...and what a way to go...hey, she was quite rude...I totally understand! I screamed, I was so happy with the ending!