Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[Mrs peel]

20 hours ago, Rap541 said:

But again, isn't now the time to say something? This is a custody hearing where Bethenny's argument is that Jason's abuse of her makes it impossible to consult him or work with him on decisions and her main evidence appears to be his abusive communication. If it's not *one sided*, if Bethenny is giving as good as she gets, then she's part of the problem. If Jason has evidence of that and isn't presenting it, how is that helping him?

Not publicly.  I was trying to make a split between IN the courtroom and in public.  And, things she did 3 years ago but doesn’t do now (if that’s the case) shouldn’t be brought up to change custody NOW.

[Rap541]

I just don't understand then. Her argument appears to be that Jason makes communication too threatening and difficult. If Jason has evidence that Bethenny's own communications are hostile and threatening, or *were* hostile and threatening, that's relevant considering that she is trying to take a level of custody away from him based on his behavior. Why isn't it helpful to his case for the court to know she was goading him or responding to communication in an equally threatening and difficult manner? *If she was*, that is - so far the most shocking reveal was the letter in the school rejection and that was something Jason instigated. 

[TheWorst]

On 3/11/2019 at 6:13 PM, Rap541 said:

I was just going to say - isn't right now, in the custody hearing, a great time to reveal how Bethenny has been dishing out the abusive texts as well

Seriously. I mean, Jason is the one who was arrested and had an extended restraining order against him because of his harrassment and stalking. 

[Rap541]

6 hours ago, TheWorst said:

Seriously. I mean, Jason is the one who was arrested and had an extended restraining order against him because of his harrassment and stalking. 

Right. Like, speaking as a rational person, I would find Jason's behavior a lot more understandable if he had a stack of emails or letters where Bethenny was goading him. And there's no danger, if Jason is genuinely concerned about Bryn having access to her mother, for him to raise this defense as he's not asking for sole custody. He's the one who could lose custodial priveledges here 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Hmmmm, guess I'm not the only one who thinks Bryn got rejected from that school ONLY because of Bethenny's "fame" & connection to the show-

https://pagesix.com/2019/03/16/bethenny-frankels-media-obsession-to-blame-for-school-snub-sources-say/?_ga=2.93234461.1068674109.1552810610-1631909422.1484548521

But I never thought of Bethenny tipping off paps when she picks up & drops off Bryn at school.  Aw, she wouldn't do that.  She'd order one of her zillions of PR slave girls do it for her . . .

[QuinnM]

2 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

But I never thought of Bethenny tipping off paps when she picks up & drops off Bryn at school.  Aw, she wouldn't do that.  She'd order one of her zillions of PR slave girls do it for her . . .

This is a little Jason plant from about a million years ago.  Notice the reference to nursery school.  At the time there were some pap photos of both B and J but the judge admonished Jason about custodial interference and then this gem popped up.  So ROL is just recirculating an old post for clickbait.

None of which actually gets to the question of the Friends School admission.  However, I do know people that are active/devote religious who have an issue with their child/grandchild being taught the Quaker values.  If you don’/t go with their program you won’t get accepted.

[jinjer]

3 hours ago, QuinnM said:

This is a little Jason plant from about a million years ago.  Notice the reference to nursery school.  At the time there were some pap photos of both B and J but the judge admonished Jason about custodial interference and then this gem popped up.  So ROL is just recirculating an old post for clickbait.

None of which actually gets to the question of the Friends School admission.  However, I do know people that are active/devote religious who have an issue with their child/grandchild being taught the Quaker values.  If you don’/t go with their program you won’t get accepted.

Nah - Friends schools are basically non-denominational - they take people of all faiths. They don't discriminate on the basis you quote. Neither Jason nor Bethenny would've complained about Quaker values, nor would Friends have questioned either Jason or Bethenny's belief systems to deny entrance to Bryn on that basis. 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

For what it’s worth, Bethenny tweeted yesterday that she is a big proponent of the public school path. Ummm ok. As evidenced by the emails of she and Jason upset and blaming the other that Bryn didn’t get into a private school. Conflicting. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

3 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

For what it’s worth, Bethenny tweeted yesterday that she is a big proponent of the public school path. Ummm ok. As evidenced by the emails of she and Jason upset and blaming the other that Bryn didn’t get into a private school. Conflicting. 

You say conflicting, I say hypocritical.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

37 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

You say conflicting, I say hypocritical.

Hypocrisy all day long. I was just being nice. Lol

[pasdetrois]

Sidwell Friends in DC is one of the city's most elite schools. Admission is specifically NOT based on whether one is a Quaker. Chelsea Clinton attended, as did at least one Obama daughter.

[QuinnM]

On 3/18/2019 at 10:53 AM, pasdetrois said:

Sidwell Friends in DC is one of the city's most elite schools. Admission is specifically NOT based on whether one is a Quaker. Chelsea Clinton attended, as did at least one Obama daughter.

From one school:  Quaker faith and practice and built upon long-held standards of exceptional Friends schools. Embracing the Quaker belief in the unique worth of each individual, we seek students from

From another: Friends School  is committed to practicing the values of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), especially those of peace, community, social justice, nonviolent conflict resolution, and tolerance and respect for all people. There is no direct religious instruction at the school; rather, it is a place of lived values.

So the Quaker values are absolutely part of the education.  These values are not religious in themselves but some people have issues with the Quaker religion being the basis for the education.  The school my friends kids attend have actually sent down students who violated the values but fighting, swearing, hate speech etc.  I don’t think these are bad values.  And the values themselves aren’t religious.  But Friends schools are very proud of their Quaker roots and the Quaker faith.  I went to a Catholic School and something like 25% of the students were not Catholic.  But it was a very good school and people wanted that education.

So Friends are Quaker Schools founded on Quaker values.

[TheWorst]

Jason blames the school rejection on Bethenny’s famewhoring, yet he has no complaints about being financially supported by her famewhoring.

Private school wouldn’t even be an option without all that famewhore money.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Idk, I barely care about this shit anymore, so I couldn't even get thru this.  Can anyone translate?  Is there  ANYTHING legit here -- or is it just more of the same tired retread of manipulative crap from Bethenny, in her concerted effort to get sole custody of Bryn?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6848153/Bethenny-Frankel-arrives-court-ongoing-custody-hearing-ex-husband-Jason-Hoppy.html

Wish I had a GIF of her usual WAH, WAH, WAH, WAH, WAH, WAH, WAH, WAH, WAH.  According to the show & Daily Mail, that's pretty much all the woman ever does (that is, when she ain't pushing SkinnyGirl crap or crassly promoting her charity work).

Oh wait -- now Saint Bethenny, Queen of the wah-wah-ing, admits on the stand she called Jason & his family "white trash" & she threw water on him while he was sleeping.  But er, I thought Bethenny was a Saint, incapable EVER doing ANYTHING wrong . . .

https://pagesix.com/2019/03/25/bethenny-frankel-threw-water-on-ex-called-him-white-trash/?_ga=2.161389821.1158672133.1553584345-1631909422.1484548521

Edited March 26, 2019 by ScoobieDoobs

[SuprSuprElevated]

"You're physically more psychologically healthy".  😶

Awfully nice of her grown son to lend moral support.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

What is in it for this new guy? Get a glimpse of your future life buddy watching her testify and be a crybaby. RUN, PAL. 

By the way Bethenny when you say things are black and he says white look back at yourself, he is saying white and you are saying black. It's the SAME. The two of them need to just put Bryn ahead of EVERYTHING else. It's the only way. And courts cannot govern that. They both have to do it. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

7 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

"You're physically more psychologically healthy".  😶

Awfully nice of her grown son to lend moral support.

Oy, this guy looks like he’s got mommy issues.  Looks to me like a mom taking her son out on a college tour.  I can just picture what she’s saying here — “Now let’s see, we have to be way smarter than Lori or Felicity”, says the always scheming Bethenny to Sonny-boy . . .

And btw, I also make fun of dudes (like Leo), who date people decades younger.

[QuinnM]

5 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

And btw, I also make fun of dudes (like Leo), who date people decades younger.

I saw a chart of Leo’s girlfriends and basically he’s dating the same age range as he did when he was 25.

But I’m not really going to even give a side eye to this Paul dude being 6 years younger.  At least he’s going to know the same bands and movies.

[ScoobieDoobs]

The pics of Bethenny here (in DM & also NY Post) are kinda misleading.  She looks so hard & brittle & bitter, & the bf looks like a shiny Jared-clone millennial.  

I haven’t mentioned it before, but I’ve met Bethenny a few times & thought she was absolutely NOTHING like the bitter, angry, shrill thing she comes off as on the show & in pics like this one.  In person, she looks much younger than her age, quite attractive, and she’s actually very nice & very at ease, not intense at all.  You wouldn’t know that from looking at pics like this.  

True, this custody stuff is unpleasant & really ugly, but whether in court or on the show, she sure does ramp up the dramatics & the wah-wah-ing.

[film noire]

16 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Oh wait -- now Saint Bethenny, Queen of the wah-wah-ing, admits on the stand she called Jason & his family "white trash" & she threw water on him while he was sleeping. 

She also admitted in court she told Jason (early in the divorce proceedings) "You will never see your daughter again".  

And this quote of Frankel's (her reason for sole custody) is ridiculous, imo:  "Bryn is getting to the age, that as she gets older there is the physical, and medical, and God forbid, drugs, we have to be rational and reasonable and have good judgment.”

She left her kid alone with an opiod addict for a babysitter and she's talking about drugs + good judgment? 

And who is she to yammer on about being "reasonable"?  Apparently she didn't just date Michael Cerussi ( who was credibly accused of rape by a coed) he also moved in with Bethenny, and Byn was "in the vicinity" when he came out of the shower. What was reasonable about putting Bryn in that position? It's one thing if a child is around her mother's long-term love, and accidentally sees something  (par for the course, imo) but letting the guy you're fun-fucking move in with you, and become part of your daughter's life that fast? Especially that man?  

And where's the "good judgment" in accepting an engagement ring from a married man?  What's rational or reasonable about flashing the ring  around on tv and social media when he's dead?

She behaves like an emotionally unstable barfly insta-bonding with every lowlife she meets during happy hour,  and then throws down a quote as if she's the Mother Theresa of RHoNY. 

Quote

@Alonzo Mosely FBI

The two of them need to just put Bryn ahead of EVERYTHING else. It's the only way. 

You're right, but I don't think Bryn's parents are ever going to stop battling over this shit. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by film noire

[SuprSuprElevated]

Their hate for each other overrides the love for their child.  It's a human trait that though I've seen before, I will never, ever, understand.

Edited March 27, 2019 by SuprSuprElevated

[SunnyBeBe]

So, is this latest custody trial over? Has the judge taken it under advisement?  What's the status? 

[smores]

Well, I did find this in an article:

Frankel and Hoppy’s former co-parenting coordinator, Rami Mosseri, testified in court in March 2019 and revealed that he quit after a year of working with the duo. “I was able to get through the mother in some degree, I didn't feel at the time as I was able to get through to the father,” Mosseri said, noting that he has only ever excused himself from a case one other time after 15 years in the business. 

“I tried to work with Mr. Hoppy to be more in touch with his anger towards her,” Mosseri told the judge. “And try to realize that life is complicated and that without each party making some compromises they will never be able to parent in an efficient way.”

[Happy Camper]

38 minutes ago, smores said:

Well, I did find this in an article:

Frankel and Hoppy’s former co-parenting coordinator, Rami Mosseri, testified in court in March 2019 and revealed that he quit after a year of working with the duo. “I was able to get through the mother in some degree, I didn't feel at the time as I was able to get through to the father,” Mosseri said, noting that he has only ever excused himself from a case one other time after 15 years in the business. 

“I tried to work with Mr. Hoppy to be more in touch with his anger towards her,” Mosseri told the judge. “And try to realize that life is complicated and that without each party making some compromises they will never be able to parent in an efficient way.”

He had negative comments for both parents, calling Frankel “controlling,” and saying Hoppy was unwilling to compromise.

[smores]

1 hour ago, Happy Camper said:

He had negative comments for both parents, calling Frankel “controlling,” and saying Hoppy was unwilling to compromise.

Sure, she was controlling, but one of them was able to be reached to a degree, at least, while the other was not.  And the person who was NOT reachable was not Bethenny.  He specifically said she was the one who could compromise, Saint Hoppy of Scranton is more worried about being pissed at Bethenny than caring for Brynn in a productive and healthy way.  

[Happy Camper]

22 minutes ago, smores said:

Sure, she was controlling, but one of them was able to be reached to a degree, at least, while the other was not.  And the person who was NOT reachable was not Bethenny.  He specifically said she was the one who could compromise, Saint Hoppy of Scranton is more worried about being pissed at Bethenny than caring for Brynn in a productive and healthy way.  

Seeking full custody and decision making power is a sure sign of not being willing to compromise, in my opinion. They are both equally putting their own feelings/needs above their daughter's.

[smores]

Just now, Happy Camper said:

Seeking full custody and decision making power is a sure sign of not being willing to compromise, in my opinion. They are both equally putting their own feelings/needs above their daughter's.

I get what you are saying and am totally not trying to change your opinion.  I'm just not sure what anyone (taking Bethenny and Jason both out of this) is supposed to do in a situation where the other party will not compromise at all and is intent on pushing a particular agenda.  I'm a kid whose parents were divorced and they didn't agree on a lot of stuff, but in my case, my mother had sole physical and legal custody, so if my father didn't like the way a medical situation was handled, that didn't really matter.  Having known both of my parents this was definitely for the best, let's just say that some of his opinions (which he did offer, despite not being needed), were . . . interesting.  Orthodontics? Nah, can't you just pull the crooked teeth? I mean, who would need them later in life anyway.  

So I'm just not sure what you do when you have a situation where one parent is trying to work things through and the other is just not coming to the table.  The parent trying to work things through may have issues, everyone does and people, even ones who try to do things together and for the kids all the time will have bumps in the road, I'm not saying there's not blame on both sides.  The first step would be to get a mediator.  In this case though, the mediator quit, saying they couldn't make progress because of the one parent.  If one will compromise, but the other won't compromise at all, or even come to the table unless things are done their exact way, then I don't know how you move forward, really.  

[PumpkinPK]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:38 AM, ScoobieDoobs said:

I can just picture what she’s saying here — “Now let’s see, we have to be way smarter than Lori or Felicity”, says the always scheming Bethenny to Sonny-boy . . .

Not a word of being smarter than Raj or Raji. At least with Bryn, B can pick her battles and doesn't fight those that she can't win. 😆

[Happy Camper]

13 minutes ago, smores said:

I get what you are saying and am totally not trying to change your opinion.  I'm just not sure what anyone (taking Bethenny and Jason both out of this) is supposed to do in a situation where the other party will not compromise at all and is intent on pushing a particular agenda.  I'm a kid whose parents were divorced and they didn't agree on a lot of stuff, but in my case, my mother had sole physical and legal custody, so if my father didn't like the way a medical situation was handled, that didn't really matter.  Having known both of my parents this was definitely for the best, let's just say that some of his opinions (which he did offer, despite not being needed), were . . . interesting.  Orthodontics? Nah, can't you just pull the crooked teeth? I mean, who would need them later in life anyway.  

So I'm just not sure what you do when you have a situation where one parent is trying to work things through and the other is just not coming to the table.  The parent trying to work things through may have issues, everyone does and people, even ones who try to do things together and for the kids all the time will have bumps in the road, I'm not saying there's not blame on both sides.  The first step would be to get a mediator.  In this case though, the mediator quit, saying they couldn't make progress because of the one parent.  If one will compromise, but the other won't compromise at all, or even come to the table unless things are done their exact way, then I don't know how you move forward, really.  

I guess my concern is that they each have their own agendas. I have a suspicion that Bethenny would not have a problem with Bryn being more visible on social media and possibly the show. I think that Jason gets in the way of that. I also can see Jason being concerned about Bethenny's relationships with other men. In those cases I can understand him not being willing to compromise, and Bethenny would maybe feel frustrated with that. 

It would not be fair for either on to make decisions based on their own negative feelings/ resentment and anger toward each other and just disagreeing to piss off the other person.

 I think that a mediator in their case is the best solution. Too bad for Bryn it didn't work out.

[film noire]

2 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

 I also can see Jason being concerned about Bethenny's relationships with other men.

He talked about being nervous about Bryn being around Frankel's boyfriends at the custody hearing -- from Bryn's safety (Dennis drove her - absolutely insane given his addiction) to Frankel living with that creep,  Cerussi:

“Bryn told me she traveled all the way to the Hamptons alone with Dennis Shields. That is not appropriate. Her last boyfriend had been accused of rape. This is a man I don’t know. At this time Bryn was four or five-years old. And god forbid something happens. What if she has to go to the bathroom. I don’t know this man.”

https://realityblurb.com/2019/03/05/rhony-bethenny-frankel-and-jason-hoppy-explosive-text-messages-exposed-in-court-he-accuses-her-of-allowing-bryn-to-travel-alone-with-boyfriend-as-she-slams-him-as-a-deadbeat/

Of all the unsettling things Frankel has done to her daughter, I think exposing her to Cerussi was the most disturbing.

You want to move in with someone credibly accused of raping a coed? Fine. You go right head and do that sick little thing. Unpack his clothes for him. Make his favourite meals.  But bringing your daughter into a compromised situation like that? Forcing her to go on vacation with that man? Being so careless with your fuck buddy roommate that your daughter sees him coming out of the shower?  Jesus. The woman has not an ounce of good judgement. And now Bernon is the new Daddy, to replace the dead Daddy, who replaced the accused-of-rape  Daddy - here's a crazy idea, Bethenny: how about you let your daughter have access to her real Daddy, and you just go fuck whoever you want, guilt-free, and leave the kid out of it?

Edited April 22, 2019 by film noire

[Rap541]

8 hours ago, film noire said:

 Daddy - here's a crazy idea, Bethenny: how about you let your daughter have access to her real Daddy, and you just go fuck whoever you want, guilt-free, and leave the kid out of it?

I don't recall seeing Jason ever complain that Bethenny doesn't allow him access to Bryn during his custody time. I get not liking Bethenny, but her pursuit of custody involves decisions for Bryn, not denying Jason any custody time and no one including Jason has ever said Bethenny denies him access to his daughter. 

As for Cerussi - the reason the judge involved can't consider Cerussi as a "credibly accused rapist" is because Michael Cerussi was never convicted of rape, arrested or charged with rape, and his alleged victim never filed a police report. The "credible accusation" doesn't exist from a legal standpoint so Jason is just making a gripe about a guy Bethenny dated briefly years ago.  I mean, Bethenny doesn't pick well, she's proved that with Jason the guy arrested and taking a plea deal to avoid a stalking conviction, but funny how Jason's lack of self control isn't making him a bad parent...

13 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

He had negative comments for both parents, calling Frankel “controlling,” and saying Hoppy was unwilling to compromise.

Yes, but he also said he left the role because while Bethenny was controlling, she was willing to compromise, Jason was not. Who's right or wrong there, I don't know, but this guy isn't saying "they were both equally a problem" but that he left because one would compromise and one wouldn't. 

[connieinnc]

10 hours ago, film noire said:

He talked about being nervous about Bryn being around Frankel's boyfriends at the custody hearing -- from Bryn's safety (Dennis drove her - absolutely insane given his addiction) to Frankel living with that creep,  Cerussi:

“Bryn told me she traveled all the way to the Hamptons alone with Dennis Shields. That is not appropriate. Her last boyfriend had been accused of rape. This is a man I don’t know. At this time Bryn was four or five-years old. And god forbid something happens. What if she has to go to the bathroom. I don’t know this man.”

https://realityblurb.com/2019/03/05/rhony-bethenny-frankel-and-jason-hoppy-explosive-text-messages-exposed-in-court-he-accuses-her-of-allowing-bryn-to-travel-alone-with-boyfriend-as-she-slams-him-as-a-deadbeat/

Of all the unsettling things Frankel has done to her daughter, I think exposing her to Cerussi was the most disturbing.

You want to move in with someone credibly accused of raping a coed? Fine. You go right head and do that sick little thing. Unpack his clothes for him. Make his favourite meals.  But bringing your daughter into a compromised situation like that? Forcing her to go on vacation with that man? Being so careless with your fuck buddy roommate that your daughter sees him coming out of the shower?  Jesus. The woman has not an ounce of good judgement. And now Bernon is the new Daddy, to replace the dead Daddy, who replaced the accused-of-rape  Daddy - here's a crazy idea, Bethenny: how about you let your daughter have access to her real Daddy, and you just go fuck whoever you want, guilt-free, and leave the kid out of it?

Jason has been credibly accused of being an abusive stalker, but that doesn't seem to count against him 😉 Cerussi was not accused of being a pedophile, so Bryn would not necessarily be at danger from him.

I am too lazy to look it up, and do not live in the NYC area, but has Jason been completely celibate since divorcing Bethenny? I assume he has dated, and Bryn has probably met at least one lady, but the tabloids don't care (and neither do those crucifying BF for dating).

[sashayshante]

22 minutes ago, connieinnc said:

11 hours ago, film noire said:

Read more  

Jason has been credibly accused of being an abusive stalker, but that doesn't seem to count against him 😉 Cerussi was not accused of being a pedophile, so Bryn would not necessarily be at danger from him. 

Wait, what? Are you saying that, because the guy was only accused of rape but not pedophilia, he's not a threat to an underage child? Are you also implying that an accusation made by a woman with a documented history of explosive behavior, questionable character and poor judgement is more credible than a woman accusing a man of rape?

christ on a cracker.

[film noire]

10 hours ago, connieinnc said:

Jason has been credibly accused of being an abusive stalker, but that doesn't seem to count against him 😉 Cerussi was not accused of being a pedophile, so Bryn would not necessarily be at danger from him.

Hoppy apologized to Bethenny in court for sending the harassing texts/emails.  Frankel did not apologize to him for putting his daughter in a car with a drug addict, and around a man accused of rape. She took no responsibility for either situation; said she did not know Shields was an addict, and when asked about the charge against Cerussi, said she "believed" he wasn't expelled and the charges dropped.  (As if that's the standard you use when bringing a man into your kid's life: "Well, he WAS accused of raping a coed - who went to the hospitol the next day and reported the rape to a nurse, but couldn't handle doing a rape kit - and after she went to the dean Cerussi was expelled, demanded a hearing and had his expulsion upheld, but then his stinking rich family sued the college - and the coed herself  - and got the expulsion overturned. Hmmm. Start packing Bryn! We're going on vacation with the man of my dreams!")

eta: Question for the lawyers here:  The case Cerussi filed was dismissed (with the approval of all parties) and it was dismissed with prejudice. I know that means it can never be refiled, but a poster (on another site) described it as often a sign you don't have a case, or are seen to be abusing the court system -- is that a fair assessment? 

Quote

 but has Jason been completely celibate since divorcing Bethenny? I assume he has dated, and Bryn has probably met at least one lady

Probably - and if Jason Hoppy had moved in with a woman credibly accused of a sex crime, or put Bryn in a car alone for several hours with a drug addict, Betheny Frankel  would be on every talk show crying about what a monster he was for putting Bryn in harm's way, and how it proved his lack of fitness as a custodial parent. 

Quote

(and neither do those crucifying BF for dating).

Nobody is crucifying her for dating. She's being criticized for moving men (two of them with profound issues) right into the center of her kid's world  -- as I already said, she should feel free to have no-guilt sex, just keep her kid out of the sideshow carnival that is her lovelife.  

Edited April 23, 2019 by film noire

[Rap541]

7 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

Wait, what? Are you saying that, because the guy was only accused of rape but not pedophilia, he's not a threat to an underage child?

Actually I think the OP was making the point that if Cerussi was a rapist (and let's remember that this credible accusation in no way involves the alleged crime being investigated by police, there was never even a police report let alone a trial or a conviction) that a rapist whose victim was an adult woman is unlikely to find a child sexually attractive. As the alleged rape is described - two guys and a woman, everyone drunk, no one grabbed or threatened into bed, no physical assault beyond the actual sex act, the alleged victim not restrained or prevented from leaving, its extremely unlikely that the alleged rapist would find a child of 4 or 5 an appropriate victim. 

Michael Cerussi is not a sexual predator. He's been convicted of no crime. He's been charged with no crime. Legally Jason can not claim this man is a threat to his child simply due to prior history. By all reports, Michael Cerussi has no history of sexual crimes or violence against women or children. He is not restricted from associating with minors. An accusation of rape is NOT a conviction so we can throw "he's a credibly accused rapist" out all we want - until this man is actually charged with a crime, he's not a criminal and not under any restrictions and Jason's complaint is null and void.

17 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

Are you also implying that an accusation made by a woman with a documented history of explosive behavior, questionable character and poor judgement is more credible than a woman accusing a man of rape?

Technically Michael Cerussi's alleged victim never filed a police report, let alone pursued criminal charges. Bethenny did pursue charges when she felt Jason's behavior warranted it. Is anyone saying that a woman with a history of explosive behavior, or questionable character and poor judgement should be discounted when she goes to the police alleging a crime? Because I don't want to have a legal system where the police decide what to investigate based on their feelings about the alleged victim's social behavior.

[Happy Camper]

3 minutes ago, film noire said:

53 minutes ago, connieinnc said:

Jason has been credibly accused of being an abusive stalker, but that doesn't seem to count against him 😉 Cerussi was not accused of being a pedophile, so Bryn would not necessarily be at danger from him.

Hoppy apologized to Bethenny in court for sending the harassing texts/emails.  Frankel did not apologize to Jason for putting his daugher in a car with a drug addict, and constantly around a man accused of rape.

She took no responsibility for either situation; said she did not know Shields was an addict, and when asked about the charge against Cerussi, said she "believed" he wasn't expelled and the charges dropped.  (As if that's the standard you use when bringing a man into your kid's life: "Well, he WAS  accused of tag-team raping a coed -- who went to the hospitol and reported the rape, but couldn't face doing a rape kit - and Cerussi was expelled, demanded a hearing and had his expulsion upheld, but then his stinking rich family sued the college -- and the coed herself   -- and got the expulsion overturned. Hmm. Start packing Bryn! We're going on vacation with the man of my dreams!")

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 but has Jason been completely celibate since divorcing Bethenny? I assume he has dated, and Bryn has probably met at least one lady, but the tabloids don't care (and neither do those crucifying BF for dating).

If Jason Hoppy had moved in with a woman credibly accused of a sex crime, or put Bryn in a car with a drug addict, Betheny Frankel  would be on every talk show crying about what a monster he was for putting Bryn in harm's way, and how it proved his lack of fitness as a custodial parent.

This, a million times over! 

If  some strange woman had been walking around naked in the vicinity of Bryn....

If Jason was announcing that he may or may not have been engaged to a drug addict....

If Jason was exploiting his entire life on a reality show/instagram (proudly showcasing drunken behaviour)...

If Jason was bouncing from one lover to the next, engaged, not engaged, madly in love then ghosting, blah blah.....publicly saying how much Bryn LOVES his newest girlfriend.....

And so on...and so on...

[smores]

Here is the thing though, Bethenny may NOT have known that Dennis had an issue with drugs.  I think it's been speculated that he was taking prescription meds for his back issues and that his usage of those meds escalated out of control.  If that was the case, then how many people have someone in their life that they would think nothing of leaving their kids with who has had surgery or has an injury that they sometimes take medication for?  It's one thing to second guess the situation NOW, knowing the end result, but it's entirely possible that during the relationship, Dennis was a guy who had hurt his back playing tennis (making this up, because I have no idea), and had to have surgery, so was taking pain meds for it.  I can't imagine that if that was the case, most people would think they have to keep their kids away from him.  

My biological father had some bone fused to vertebra in his neck while he was alive, one of my grandparents took pain meds periodically due to nerve damage.  Neither of them were considered dangerous or incapable of being around kids, you just had to be careful with being rough when they were feeling bad, because you didn't want to hurt them.  If we start using this standard, then what happens if Jason hurts himself playing golf? Or his mom breaks her hip and requires surgery and meds? Will we automatically assume they are an addict and must be kept away from Brynn?  That would be ridiculous.  But, that's also the standard that is being set if it's not possible that Bethenny didn't know that Dennis had a problem.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

Michael Cerussi's alleged victim never filed a police report, let alone pursued criminal charges. 

Which is not at all unusual. The young woman in question went to the hospital the next day, reported the rape to a nurse (who found redness at the vaginal base) but did not consent to photographs and a full rape kit.

The coed then reported the assault to the dean. 

Sadly, that's more action than many women take (then, or now) due to fear of being disbelieved, or having their assault diminished as consensual confusion on their part - the documentary The Hunting Ground (I cannot recommend it enough) methodically (and horribly) lays out how college rape is handled in an academic (and for profit) setting -- among so many disturbing things, it's not only very rare for any Dean to stand behind a female student reporting sexual assault (never mind order/uphold expulsion multiple times) it's also true that many Deans discourage students from reporting the rape to the police, to avoid the school getting a reputation as a rape factory.  

The trailer for the movie covers administrations urging women to not report officially:

And again, if this were a charge against Jason's girlfriend, Frankel would absolutely validate it, and use it in court (public opinion of, as well as legal) and not brush it off as "Well, the woman wasn't expelled".   She'd insist it was proof Hoppy was an untrustworthy guardian, and undeserving of shared custody. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by film noire

[Rap541]

1 minute ago, film noire said:

Which is not at all unusual. The young woman in question went to the hospital the next day, reported the rape to a nurse (who found redness at the vaginal base) but did not consent to photographs and a full rape kit. The coed then reported the assault to the dean. 

Sadly, that's more action than most women take (then, or now) due to fear of being disbelieved, or having their assault diminished as consensual confusion on their part. The documentary The Hunting Ground (I cannot recommend it enough) methodically (and horribly) lays out how college rapes are handled in an academic (and for profit) setting -- among so many disturbing things, it's not only very rare for any Dean to stand behind a female student reporting sexual assault (and order expulsion multiple times) it's also true that many, many Deans discourage students from reporting the rape to the police, to avoid the school getting a reputation as a rape factory. 

I don't disagree but at the end of the day - the alleged victim did not file a police report, there was no arrest, there was no trial, there is no conviction, and Michael Cerussi is a free man with no restrictions on where he lives or what he does. Which means Jason is not complaining about Bethenny dating a rapist, because Cerussi isn't a rapist, credibly accused or not. Its certainly unfortunate that the alleged victim refused to have pictures or a rape kit but guess what? Evidence is often required when crimes are alleged. Sadly, because of the refusal to submit to pictures and the refusal to do a rape kit, and the refusal to press charges, all this rape allegation ends up being is an anonymous woman saying the guy raped her but refusing to do anything beyond the finger pointing. That's not a "credibly accused rapist" to me  - an anon victim who refused all evidence seeking and refused to file charges is not enough for me to jump on the bandwagon and agree that this guy should be treated as though there really is a conviction - there's not. A victim who never went to the police is not making a credible accusation because by NOT going to the police, the accusation can never be investigated... and look, it wasn't. 

[Rap541]

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And again, if this were a charge against Jason's girlfriend, Frankel would absolutely validate it, and use it in court (public opinion of, as well as legal) and not brush it off as "Well, the woman wasn't expelled".   She'd insist it was proof Hoppy was an untrustworthy guardian, and undeserving of shared custody. 

Perhaps but she'd run into the same problem Jason has - no conviction, no restriction and a person can't be held accountable in a custody court over crimes that were never reported. For the same reason a judge would have to ignore Jason's issue with Michael Cerussi - Bethenny's concerns would have to be dismissed. 

Film, I appreciate you responding but it's actually sometimes frustrating that you respond by changing your original post rather that doing a follow up post. I only noticed your response because I was scroll happy. There's no restriction on follow up posts or multiple posts.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

 it's actually sometimes frustrating that you respond by changing your original post rather that doing a follow up post.

I'm not going to turn a couple of lines into a whole new post - but if it ever comes up again, I'll add an @Rap541.

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Here is the thing though, Bethenny may NOT have known that Dennis had an issue with drugs. 

She told the court she "maybe assumed" he was taking drugs for his back injury,  but she didn't "know" -- to me, that sounds like a classic cover-your-ass answer. YMMV.

eta: do you think Frankel would accept anybody else claiming ignorance of a hardcore addiction on the part of their fiancee? Wouldn't she mock Ramona or Luann - or her ex - for making that kind of claim? Shouldn't Frankel have to live up to the same standards she demands everybody else live up to?

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 If we start using this standard, then what happens if Jason hurts himself playing golf?

If Hoppy decided to drive Bryn around under the influence of opiods, that's a potential DUID and he should pay a price for such recklessness (and if his significant had done that, Frankel would be on Watch What Happens every night yammering on about Hoppy's girlfriend being a hophead while sobbing "Please, give me back my baby!!"  -- goose, gander, etc.)

Edited April 23, 2019 by film noire

[smores]

34 minutes ago, film noire said:

She told the court she "maybe assumed" he was taking drugs for his back injury,  but she didn't "know" -- to me, that sounds like a classic cover-your-ass answer. YMMV.

eta: do you think Frankel would accept anybody else claiming ignorance of a hardcore addiction on the part of their fiancee? Wouldn't she mock Ramona or Luann - or her ex - for making that kind of claim? Shouldn't Frankel have to live up to the same standards she demands everybody else live up to?

If Hoppy decided to drive Bryn around under the influence of opiods, that's a potential DUID and he should pay a price for such recklessness (and if his significant had done that, Frankel would be on Watch What Happens every night yammering on about Hoppy's girlfriend being a hophead while sobbing "Please, give me back my baby!!"  -- goose, gander, etc.)

Honestly, I do think that Bethenny would accept it if it was a sudden unexplained death.  I don't know the specifics of Dennis's potential addiction, he may have had a visible drug problem for a while that people knew about.  Or he could have been someone who was taking pills for an injury or a surgery and things got out of control but he was able to keep the extent of his using under wraps until it went too far.  It is possible that he took too many pills too close together, it's possible that he took pills and something else that caused a fatal interaction, he may have died from a completely unrelated stroke or heart attack, we just don't know.  So I do think it's possible that people would accept that not everyone is always aware that there is a problem with someone near them until it is too late.  That is believable.  

Now, on the flip side, let's say Dennis was acting like Lindsay Lohan back in the day.  If there were stories, photos, evidence of that and Bethenny tried to say she didn't know? Yeah, I wouldn't buy that.  But, look at Prince, he died of an overdose and when he did, many, many people would have sworn that he was someone who wouldn't use drugs at all.  

[film noire]

23 hours ago, Rap541 said:

all this rape allegation ends up being is an anonymous woman saying the guy raped her but refusing to do anything beyond the finger pointing.

That's not true - the young woman is not anonymous, her name is known (via the report to the nurse, the Dean, and the lawsuit).  And she did more than just "fingerpoint": she reported the rape to two people (the nurse and the Dean) and underwent a physical examination.  She also followed the process offered by the school, and for that she should be commended, imo, not criticized.

And a criminal convction is not required when it comes to a father being concerned his daughter is being exposed to a man HE believes to be a credibly accused rapist (based on whatever information he's seen) which is what Hoppy said in court. 

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 A victim who never went to the police is not making a credible accusation 

By that standard, all the victims raped by Weinstein and his repugnant ilk do not have credible accusations, merely because they didn't report the attacks to the police. I don't support that standard -- sexual assault is rarely reported, and often, never shared with anyone else, not even close friends, family, or significant others. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by film noire

[Rap541]

4 minutes ago, film noire said:

That's not true - the young woman is not anonymous, her name is known (via the report to the nurse, the Dean, and the lawsuit). 

None of which is available for public consumption - the report to the nurse and the dean are private. The victim is refered to as the victim in all news articles. I don't need to know her name but let's be honest - her credibility can't be questioned when her name is redacted due to privacy concerns. 

And if you don't think that's a concern - what if this alleged victim was Bethenny Frankel? I suspect her credibility would be questioned. 

14 minutes ago, film noire said:

She also followed the process offered by the school, and for that she should be commended, imo, not criticized.

This is the same process that ultimately led to her not pressing charges, right? After not submitting to a rape kit or having pictures taken. My criticism is that I am being asked to treat a man like a convicted rapist based on the claims of a woman who didn't file a police report and refused to provide physical evidence. 

18 minutes ago, film noire said:

And a criminal convction is not required when it comes to a father being concerned that his daughter is being exposed to a man HE believes to be a credibly accused rapist, based on the information  he's seen, which is what Hoppy said in court. 

Of course it doesn't stop Hoppy from raising it in court. But did it accomplish anything? No... because when Jason said that a man he believes to be a credibly accused rapist has been around his daughter, the judge has to work with the facts that exist, that there's not even a police report accusing Michael Cerussi of anything, and that means Jason's concern won't be taken seriously. Because it's not a credible accusation.

21 minutes ago, film noire said:

By that standard, all the victims raped by Weinstein and his repugnant ilk do not have credible accusations, merely because they didn't report the attacks to the police.

To a certain extent that is absolutely true and their continued silence meant that other women were also victimized. The real *hero* of that story is Ambra Guterriez who instead of being silent, went to the police, agreed to wear a wire and got that arrogant bastard to admit to touching her. Not reporting the sleazebag is why he got 30+ years to be a groping asshole. You can't get justice if you refuse to report the crime. 

[Rap541]

33 minutes ago, smores said:

Now, on the flip side, let's say Dennis was acting like Lindsay Lohan back in the day.  If there were stories, photos, evidence of that and Bethenny tried to say she didn't know? Yeah, I wouldn't buy that.  But, look at Prince, he died of an overdose and when he did, many, many people would have sworn that he was someone who wouldn't use drugs at all.  

This. For all we're all "Dennis was a dope fiend, how could Bethenny not know" - the reality is that the accidental overdose of a loved one is how family and friends discover that there was a problem. Dennis clearly kept his drug problem a secret. 

[breezy424]

6 hours ago, Rap541 said:

Actually I think the OP was making the point that if Cerussi was a rapist (and let's remember that this credible accusation in no way involves the alleged crime being investigated by police, there was never even a police report let alone a trial or a conviction) that a rapist whose victim was an adult woman is unlikely to find a child sexually attractive. As the alleged rape is described - two guys and a woman, everyone drunk, no one grabbed or threatened into bed, no physical assault beyond the actual sex act, the alleged victim not restrained or prevented from leaving, its extremely unlikely that the alleged rapist would find a child of 4 or 5 an appropriate victim. 

Michael Cerussi is not a sexual predator. He's been convicted of no crime. He's been charged with no crime. Legally Jason can not claim this man is a threat to his child simply due to prior history. By all reports, Michael Cerussi has no history of sexual crimes or violence against women or children. He is not restricted from associating with minors. An accusation of rape is NOT a conviction so we can throw "he's a credibly accused rapist" out all we want - until this man is actually charged with a crime, he's not a criminal and not under any restrictions and Jason's complaint is null and void.

Technically Michael Cerussi's alleged victim never filed a police report, let alone pursued criminal charges. Bethenny did pursue charges when she felt Jason's behavior warranted it. Is anyone saying that a woman with a history of explosive behavior, or questionable character and poor judgement should be discounted when she goes to the police alleging a crime? Because I don't want to have a legal system where the police decide what to investigate based on their feelings about the alleged victim's social behavior.

This is how so many college rapes go.  They're afraid to file with the police so they complain to the school anonymously.  I know someone who was raped at college.

As discussed over at RHNY (which many here watch), the alleged victim doesn't always respond to a situation the way one thinks they 'should'. 

In Beth's case, I would be very careful with Cerussi and can totally understand Jason's reaction.  Same goes with Shields.  Beth has shown she has problems with relationships IMO.

[film noire]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:01 PM, Rap541 said:

None of which is available for public consumption

Yes, it is (I know her name from public sources). She's not an anonymous fingerpointer, and there' s nothing covert or hidden about anything she did. It was up front and by the (college's) books.

On 4/22/2019 at 11:13 PM, breezy424 said:

the alleged victim doesn't always respond to a situation the way one thinks they 'should'. 

The myth of the 'perfect' rape victim just will not die ; (

eta:

Quote

In Beth's case, I would be very careful with Cerussi and can totally understand Jason's reaction. 

I always thought it was unsettling that Cerussi's friends nicknamed him "American Psycho" (after Christian Bale & the movie). That alone would be a red flag to me (can you just imagine that blind date?  "Hi,  I'm Chip, that's Bucky and Becky, and this is your date - his nickname is American Psycho.")

Edited April 26, 2019 by film noire

[hoodooznoodooz]

If I had a young daughter, I would not date Cerussi, and I would certainly not let him shower in my home while my young daughter was there. 

Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. I mean, I know so many guys who have NOT been (falsely?!?) accused of rape. It’s pretty easy to date those guys. 

If I am being neurotic or paranoid? I’m an alarmist? Not giving someone the benefit of the doubt? The safety of my daughter is more important than anything else. 

If there’s even the slightest chance that my choices could end up endangering or traumatizing my daughter, I choose something else. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by hoodooznoodooz

[gundysgirl]

12 hours ago, Rap541 said:

This is the same process that ultimately led to her not pressing charges, right? After not submitting to a rape kit or having pictures taken. My criticism is that I am being asked to treat a man like a convicted rapist based on the claims of a woman who didn't file a police report and refused to provide physical evidence. 

Yes, this. What we have now is what we were left with. We don't actually know what happened.  We know that the young woman involved told her roommate when she got home that night that she had just had sex with two men. We also know that she told a different friend the next morning over Bruch that she had had sex with two men the night before. No mention of a rape, and no evidence that she was upset or traumatized. When friends of the two that she later accused of the rape started calling her later the next day asking her if she wanted to party, she became upset that it was being discussed in the fraternity house and said she "thought" she must have been raped. I am not saying that she was or was not, because I have zero idea. In general, I tend to believe the woman. This seems to be very complicated. I hope that she received support and counseling for whatever happened. 

I am a mother to both a son and a daughter. If my daughter made such claims I would be beside myself and want justice. At the same time, if the exact same situation happened and it were my son that was accused, I would be outraged on his behalf (just knowing the facts that we know). If I loved someone who was accused in this situation I would defend them. At the end of the day, I am not sure how Bethenny is to be judged for anything having to do with any of this. 

[Rap541]

8 hours ago, film noire said:

Yes, it is (I know her name from public sources). She's not an anonymous fingerpointer, and there' s nothing covert or hidden about anything she did. It was up front and by the (college's) books.

Then point the way, if you like (not demanding receipts). Every article I have found attached to this discussion never lists the name of the alleged victim. I'm willing to change my mind.