Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[Otherkate]

I'm still not convinced this is a real story, but if it is it would be extremely ill-advised for about 100 different reasons. Unless Jason is causing some kind of harm to his daughter, separating the two of them would be the worst thing in the world. A child needs her parents and she needs as many loving supporters as she can get in life - period. The best thing I ever did was just accept the sucky reality that is my new life regardless of my opinions of him (vis a vis the divorce, custody, disagreeing with him about a LOT of things, thinking he's a POS many times, questioning his commitment to his children.) It is HARD, but once you do it everyone can move forward. 

I really do hope she has people who will be honest with her and mostly I hope this is all BS.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Otherkate

[Happy Camper]

2 hours ago, Otherkate said:

I'm still not convinced this is a real story, but if it is it would be extremely ill-advised for about 100 different reasons. Unless Jason is causing some kind of harm to his daughter, separating the two of them would be the worst thing in the world. A child needs her parents and she needs as many loving supporters as she can get in life - period. The best thing I ever did was just accept the sucky reality that is my new life regardless of my opinions of him (vis a vis the divorce, custody, disagreeing with him about a LOT of things, thinking he's a POS many times, questioning his commitment to his children.) It is HARD, but once you do it everyone can move forward. 

I really do hope she has people who will be honest with her and mostly I hope this is all BS.

Just my own personal experience, so maybe doesn't relate to Bethenny, but something to consider. I had to come to the realization that I chose poorly (the first time) for a husband but I can't punish my children for my bad choice. They needed their ( bad husband, but good) dad.  So I sucked it up and it was the best course of action I could have taken for our family.

I built him up for them.

I am so proud of myself for seeing beyond my own bitterness, when I look at my kids and grandkids.

They have amazing relationships.

They have family. They know that they are loved.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Happy Camper

[film noire]

On 1/19/2018 at 4:46 PM, Otherkate said:

I'm still not convinced this is a real story

Yeah - if it were just the gossip pages I'd dismiss it at this point, but People confirmed the story (back in mid December) and they don't usually chase air.

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 It is HARD, but once you do it everyone can move forward. 

Brava to you  (and @Happy Camper) for slogging through/knowing what mattered.

Edited January 21, 2018 by film noire

[film noire]

Judge orders Bryn to see a psychologist as Frankel sues for sole custody:

"Judge Michael Katz said that while “on the surface it appears the child is doing well,” he wants an undated evaluation from a psychiatrist to ensure the parents’ venom isn’t warping her youth."

https://pagesix.com/2018/03/08/judge-wants-bethenny-frankels-daughter-to-see-psychologist/

Edited March 8, 2018 by film noire

[WireWrap]

23 minutes ago, film noire said:

Judge orders Bryn to see a psychologist as Frankel sues for sole custody:

"Judge Michael Katz said that while “on the surface it appears the child is doing well,” he wants an undated evaluation from a psychiatrist to ensure the parents’ venom isn’t warping her youth."

https://pagesix.com/2018/03/08/judge-wants-bethenny-frankels-daughter-to-see-psychologist/

It's interesting that Jason's lawyer noted that not 1 word in Bethenny's complaint/motion mentions Bryn! He seems to be following the court order and not contacting her at all so she needs to stop playing this game. I swear, she is doing everything to provoke him to get sole custody of Bryn, which is what she initially asked for. No one matters to Bethenny but Bethenny, not even Bryn. 

[HunterHunted]

I've always believed that Jason is no prize because a well-adjusted normal person does not marry or have a child with Bethenny. She's  a mess. However, she needs to stop. What she's doing is not healthy for her or her child. As long as Jason isn't harming Bryn, Bethenny needs to let it go.

I think about Kandi and the odious Block, her daughter's father. Kandi didn't try to separate them or talk badly about him because Block quickly showed himself to be a terrible father. If Jason is a bad father, he will show himself to be one. If he was a bad husband and partner, then it's good she's no longer married to him. She shouldn't keep Bryn from Jason just because Jason and Bethenny didn't work out.

[film noire]

49 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

No one matters to Bethenny but Bethenny, not even Bryn. 

It seems so pointlessly cruel.

Bryn was apparently doing well, and now the kid has to meet with a child psych and be investigated (however artfully that may be handled) regarding a life she seems to have adjusted to with flying colours -- just let your daughter have a relationship with her father and back off.

 

24 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I've always believed that Jason is no prize because a well-adjusted normal person does not marry or have a child with Bethenny. 

LOL (and yeah, that's not a bad test -- skinny birds of a feather? ; )

Edited March 9, 2018 by film noire

[SuprSuprElevated]

It seems like they both just want to win.  They want to be the victor over the other one, more than they want to be successful parents to that child.  Initially, I thought he was the good guy to her bad guy, but over time, he has shown himself to be unable to put the past behind him for the sake of his kid.

Such a nasty situation.  She's raising another Bethenny, another socially inept human being who won't be able to trust anyone, and will torpedo relationships for sport.

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

It seems like they both just want to win.  They want to be the victor over the other one, more than they want to be successful parents to that child.  Initially, I thought he was the good guy to her bad guy, but over time, he has shown himself to be unable to put the past behind him for the sake of his kid.

Such a nasty situation.  She's raising another Bethenny, another socially inept human being who won't be able to trust anyone, and will torpedo relationships for sport.

Only if she is successful with this latest game she is playing, until then, Bryn still has her father/grandparents to show/teach her differently. 

I don't think Jason is a "bad guy" in as much as he was been pushed to his breaking point and went nuts with the nasty emails, although, the ones we did see, weren't all that bad. I think Jason needs to stick to the current set up, no contact with Bethenny at all and she needs to stop baiting him to gain sole custody (her plan from the get go).

[enchantingmonkey]

35 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

She's raising another Bethenny, another socially inept human being who won't be able to trust anyone, and will torpedo relationships for sport.

It would likely be a big victory for her if Bryn turns out to be just (or mostly) like her.  I can't imagine that Bethenny would really want to raise a child who would challenge her way of looking at the world.  I know I wouldn't if I was her.  

[LilaFowler]

Bethenny doesn't even seem to realize that she has turned into her mother. Everything she's criticized that woman for over the years, she has equaled or exceeded herself. She isn't providing a stable life for her child. Maybe Bryn doesn't want for food or material possessions, but this business with Jason is chaotic and stressful and yes, Bryn is certainly aware of it.

[Happy Camper]

42 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

Bethenny doesn't even seem to realize that she has turned into her mother. Everything she's criticized that woman for over the years, she has equaled or exceeded herself. She isn't providing a stable life for her child. Maybe Bryn doesn't want for food or material possessions, but this business with Jason is chaotic and stressful and yes, Bryn is certainly aware of it.

Hopefully the psychologist's report will disclose this if it's true. These investigations are usually very thorough and  professional so that if there is any inappropriate accusations/behavior with Bethenny or Jason, these will be identified. Typically both parties and the child are interviewed and then individual interactions between each parent and child are observed by a pyschologist. 

I believe that any false/exaggerated reports from either side will be noted and reported.

It is just my opinion that Bethenny is hurting Bryn by attempting to deny her equal time with her dad.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Happy Camper

[Happy Camper]

24 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

I am of the opinion that b is just tired of having to plan her life around a custody schedule. She wants full custody so she can plan to do what she wants, when she wants. As it is now, she has to plan around when she has Brynn. And I think she went for custody changes soon after the plea deal as a provoking method, thinking it would cause him to lash out and void the deal, then it was easy street to Jason losing custody. 

I agree and also I truly believe that Bethenny will make a decision that is in the best interests of only Bethenny. 

She will be too happy (not Hoppy) to deny Jason his rights as a dad ( totally ignorant of Bryn's needs to spend time with her dad and paternal grandparents). 

This at the expense of a little girl who loves and needs her Mommy and Daddy, and extended family.

A life altering decision (for poor Bryn)based on selfishness.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Happy Camper

[Rap541]

Quote

Judge orders Bryn to see a psychologist as Frankel sues for sole custody:

"Judge Michael Katz said that while “on the surface it appears the child is doing well,” he wants an undated evaluation from a psychiatrist to ensure the parents’ venom isn’t warping her youth."

So help me out here - the judge said that there's no obvious signs the child is damaged and says the child appears to be doing well, but because he wants to be careful and have the child get extra attention, that means Brynn has been deemed damaged by the judge and Bethenny is to blame? Help me out here, my own niece in a relatively uncontested custody situation had to see a psychologist - does this mean one of her parents destroyed her mentally?

Quote

It seems so pointlessly cruel.

Bryn was apparently doing well, and now the kid has to meet with a child psych and be investigated (however artfully that may be handled) regarding a life she seems to have adjusted to with flying colours -- just let your daughter have a relationship with her father and back off.

I had no idea seeing a child psych equaled damaging a child beyond repair to where any child, not just Brynn, who sees a psych is so damaged they will never be normal and are officially damaged souls. Why would the judge insist on destroying this child beyond repair? I mean, the point is that if Brynn is trotted to a child psychologist, she will be damaged beyond repair, right? She'll be nothing but her mother and really, at the end Brynn really needs to look back at the online fights and know she was done at age seven, damaged beyond repair and doomed.

*I spent my entire life hearing from my mother how I was just like my father, and I assure you it was not a fucking compliment, and they were not divorced, and I can assure you that I might have liked a non related adult to try to help deal with the issues. There is absolutely nothing wrong and nothing damaging in letting Brynn talk to a safe adult who isn't there to take sides with EITHER of her parents. If the concern here is genuinely about Brynn, then I am perplexed at why having a non family member with no ties to either side talk to the kid is a bad thing.

[film noire]

On 3/9/2018 at 1:26 AM, Rap541 said:

 I mean, the point is that if Brynn is trotted to a child psychologist, she will be damaged beyond repair, right? 

Actually, no -- my point is that because of Frankel's desire to severely limit Bryn's access to her father,  an apparently well-adjusted kid will be put through a stressful court ordered assessment (however brilliantly handled by the psych) just to serve her mother's need to completely control her daughter's relationship with her father.  

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Why would the judge insist on destroying this child beyond repair?

Where did I say he was destroying Bryn? 

Bethenny is the one tampering with her kid's stability here by pursuing sole custody and setting all this in motion -- that said, the judge imo should have ordered the parents each talk to a court appointed psych about their parental "venom", because that's where the problem lies, not with Bryn Hoppy.  

Edited March 10, 2018 by film noire

[film noire]

 E  is now reporting (if you can call what they do "reporting") that the judge ordered evals on the parents interacting with Bryn:

"A source close to the situation tells E! News exclusively that Judge Michael Katz has ordered Frankel and Hoppy to get forensic evaluations done with their daughter.

"Back in 2013 when the divorce and custody initially happened, this same doctor did a forensic custody evaluation at the time," the source says.

"The judge today ordered that same doctor do another forensic custody evaluation to update his first report from 2013. He will meet with Bryn and Jason, and then Bryn with Bethenny – separately but in person – and observe each of them with the child."

The source continues, "They are due back in court on May 10th and the evaluations are to be completed by then, that's why the judge gave them so much time between now and then."

http://www.eonline.com/news/919535/judge-orders-bethenny-frankel-and-jason-hoppy-to-get-forensic-custody-evaluations-with-bryn

That's a lot of pressure on a little girl. (eta: I wish he'd had them evaluated as individuals, without Bryn there, and see if that mitigated Frankel's desire to seek sole custody.)

And per Hoppy's legal situation: "Regarding the order of protection, the source reveals to E! News that the case will soon be dimissed..."April 20th is when Jason's criminal case is formally dismissed and the order of protection expires. It's not a court hearing nor will they even call it in court, it's just when the order of protection Bethenny filed expires."

Edited March 9, 2018 by film noire

[BBHN]

Quote

Bethenny is the one tampering with her kid's stability here,

I'll wait and see what the psychiatrist says before booking a seat on that train.

[ShawnaLanne]

5 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Bethenny doesn't even seem to realize that she has turned into her mother. Everything she's criticized that woman for over the years, she has equaled or exceeded herself. She isn't providing a stable life for her child. Maybe Bryn doesn't want for food or material possessions, but this business with Jason is chaotic and stressful and yes, Bryn is certainly aware of it.

I don't disagree with her turning into her mother, but Jason Hoppy,  is psycho, I'd be doing everything I could to keep my kid away from him. And I don't but into "she made him that way" anymore than I buy into a woman dressing up makes a guy rape her. 

3 hours ago, Rap541 said:

So help me out here - the judge said that there's no obvious signs the child is damaged and says the child appears to be doing well, but because he wants to be careful and have the child get extra attention, that means Brynn has been deemed damaged by the judge and Bethenny is to blame? Help me out here, my own niece in a relatively uncontested custody situation had to see a psychologist - does this mean one of her parents destroyed her mentally?

I had no idea seeing a child psych equaled damaging a child beyond repair to where any child, not just Brynn, who sees a psych is so damaged they will never be normal and are officially damaged souls. Why would the judge insist on destroying this child beyond repair? I mean, the point is that if Brynn is trotted to a child psychologist, she will be damaged beyond repair, right? She'll be nothing but her mother and really, at the end Brynn really needs to look back at the online fights and know she was done at age seven, damaged beyond repair and doomed.

*I spent my entire life hearing from my mother how I was just like my father, and I assure you it was not a fucking compliment, and they were not divorced, and I can assure you that I might have liked a non related adult to try to help deal with the issues. There is absolutely nothing wrong and nothing damaging in letting Brynn talk to a safe adult who isn't there to take sides with EITHER of her parents. If the concern here is genuinely about Brynn, then I am perplexed at why having a non family member with no ties to either side talk to the kid is a bad thing.

I saw many child psychologists as a child,  most in reference to my father,  those visits weren't what damaged me. 

[QuinnM]

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I'll wait and see what the psychiatrist says before booking a seat on that train.

I know during BEA Hoppy had said no one needs a shrink.  He referenced the priest as the person that worked with his family when they needed it.  So I doubt he’s happy about this.  But it can’t hurt.  Might be nice for Bryn.  And if Jason/Bethenny have been good parents there is nothing to fear.  But if they have been on the phone or over cocktails bitching about each other, that’s not going to be in their favor.  So yep, not booking a seat either.

 

However no matter how Jason’s attorney wants to spin it, the judge thinks he’s a douche. (Shout out to this being a public hearing.) The judge smirked?  Yikes.

“Does this mean [Frankel] has to wait until the child is 18 to stop receiving these derogatory emails?” Katz smirked.

[Rap541]

I'm sorry, film_noire, you said it was pointlessly cruel for Brynn to see a child psych. Since I equate cruelty with a brutal damaging experience, I assumed you meant that since a judge is sending Brynn to see a shrink you believe seeing that shrink is a brutal, damaging experience that Brynn is being subjected to.

I don't think it's pointlessly cruel, I think it's probably a good idea, considering how poorly Bethenny and Jason get along. I also am completely willing to wait and see on whether Bethenny pursuing sole custody is for selfish or for good reasons. I honestly don't think Bethenny would stir this particular pot unless she really thought she could win so I admit some curiosity about what she thinks will change the judge's mind.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Why on earth is it "cruel" to have a child see a psychologist?  It's not like she's being ordered to undergo a spinal tap or something.  The judge simply wants a professional, unbiased assessment of the girl in order to determine what is in her best interests. There is nothing cruel about it.

It would be irresponsible of the judge to not have the child assessed, given the circumstances.  Jason and Bethenny simply can't get along and the potential impact of that situation is best explained to the court by a doctor who has examined Bryn. I think it would be horrible if the judge made a ruling by based on what a bunch of biased witnesses came in and said. And even worse to base any rulings on arguments made by the rather assholish lawyers involved in the case. No, a professional psychologist definitely needs to be involved. 

It's great that the same person who did Bryn's first evaluation is available to see her again. That person should be able to gauge what effect all the drama has had on her and will hopefully be able to steer the judge in the right direction.

[Jel]

"Her ex spent the hearing angrily sipping from a small water bottle."

That doesn't sound crazy cat lady at all.

My mind goes to, hmm if he can't contain or even disguise his anger in a custody hearing, in front of a judge, whose favorable impression he is relying on, what's he going to be like when he's tired and in a bad mood and his daughter decides to act up?  I'd be surprised if the shrink didn't wonder about that, too.

[Rap541]

Well, sure, Jason sounds rather rage filled, but honestly there's a point where Bethenny better have something other than nothing to alter the custody agreement. 

So far, all the observations are that despite the parents despising each other, the kid seems well enough. Bethenny will need to provide reasons other than "I don't like him" to prevail. 

[film noire]

6 hours ago, Rap541 said:

I'm sorry, film_noire, you said it was pointlessly cruel for Brynn to see a child psych.

Yes -- and it is pointlessly cruel, imo - if Bryn were in trouble (doing badly in school, not socializing, difficulty sleeping/eating) that would be one thing, but that's not the case. Bryn is doing well (per her parents) and has adjusted to her post-divorce life with flying colours -- but despite Bryn thriving, that girl will now have to undergo a psych eval, instead of Frankel just leaving well enough alone re: custody and letting her daughter have a relationship with her father.

That's pointless and cruel to me -- an unnecessary emotional minefield for that child to negotiate  (no matter how beautifully it's handled by the psych) because Bryn is now old enough to know what those meetings are really about.

She's not three, playing with the Nice Lady or Nice Man, but almost eight. She's aware enough to feel stressed out and worried about hurting either of her parents with her comments.   And Frankel -- needlessly, pointlessly -- put that landmine in Bryn's path the minute she filed for sole custody (yet again).   

Edited March 9, 2018 by film noire

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

Yes -- and it is pointlessly cruel, imo - if Bryn were in trouble (doing badly in school, not socializing, difficulty sleeping/eating) that would be one thing, but that's not the case. Bryn is doing well (per her parents) and has adjusted to her post-divorce life with flying colours -- but despite Bryn thriving, that girl will now have to undergo a psych eval, instead of Frankel just leaving well enough alone re: custody and letting her daughter have a relationship with her father.

That's pointless and cruel to me -- an unnecessary emotional minefield for that child to negotiate  (no matter how beautifully it's handled by the psych) because Bryn is now old enough to know what those meetings are really about.

She's not three, playing with the Nice Lady or Nice Man, but almost eight. She's aware enough to feel stressed out and worried about hurting either of her parents with her comments.   And Frankel -- needlessly, pointlessly -- put that landmine in Bryn's path the minute she filed for sole custody (yet again).   

And Bethenny didn't just file for "primary" custody of Bryn, she filed for "sole" custody and if she gets it, she will cut Jason out of Bryn's life. Again, this is all about Bethenny's wants/needs and nothing about what is best for Bryn.

[Rap541]

Well, I don't agree that a psych eval is an emotional mindfield, nor do I think it's pointless and purely cruel. And I don't think the judge ordered it simply to be pointlessly cruel to a child. Considering how contentious and unpleasant both parents are, I also question the assumption that there's nothing to be concerned about. The judge obviously wants to be careful, a good thing, and I genuinely don't think this psych eval will be the thing Brynn points to as an adult with "Yes, this psych eval, this was the moment of pure torture that warped my soul into an unredeemable mess".

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And Frankel -- needlessly, pointlessly -- put that landmine in Bryn's path the minute she filed for sole custody (yet again).   

Since the custody case has barely begun with no facts being presented, isn't it a little early for anyone to be stating as a fact that Bethenny was acting needlessly and pointlessly?

Sure, maybe she is just being a bitch. Trust me when I say I consider that to be within the realm of possibility. But... what tempers my thoughts and makes me unwilling to say before any of this custody battle occurs that Bethenny has made a pointless and needless bid is that Bethenny isn't as dumb as a box of rocks. God knows she has her moments, but when it comes to legal things, Bethenny generally doesn't get into fights she doesn't think she can win. That tells me she's either completely delusional (maybe but her general ability to work etc suggests its unlikely) or she thinks she's got something on Jason that she thinks will score her sole custody. 

Now, much like I can't rule out Bethenny being totally delusional, I also can't rule out that Jason may have done something that would make a normal rational person question whether he should have access to her child. I suspect the truth is probably somewhere in the middle... but until this all shakes out in the courts, I can't and won't say Bethenny, or any mother for that matter, doesn't have the right to pursue sole custody if they believe something is seriously wrong.

Quote

And Bethenny didn't just file for "primary" custody of Bryn, she filed for "sole" custody and if she gets it, she will cut Jason out of Bryn's life. Again, this is all about Bethenny's wants/needs and nothing about what is best for Bryn.

And if Bethenny does get sole custody, is it impossible to believe there might be a reason for that? I mean, NY is not a state known for ripping children from their fathers. Honestly, I hope for Brynn's sake that Bethenny is just being a mess and using the courts to harass Jason the way some of you think... because if she's got something on him bad enough to alter custody... it would have to be pretty bad. But until this all shakes out, I don' t think any of us can say which side is right.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Rap541

[film noire]

38 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

nor do I think it's pointless and purely cruel. And I don't think the judge ordered it simply to be pointlessly cruel to a child. 

 

I didn't say the judge was pointlessly cruel:  I said it was pointlessly cruel to put a well adjusted child through a psych eval just because you want to control that child's relationship with the father.

Frankel set this train in motion, not the judge -- he didn't call her up and say "I'd love to order a psych eval on your well adjusted kid, so could you file for sole custody?" : )

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Since the custody case has barely begun with no facts being presented, isn't it a little early for anyone to be stating as a fact that Bethenny was acting needlessly and pointlessly?

Hoppy's lawyer said in court (speaking for Hoppy) that Bryn was happy and well adjusted. Frankel has said the same herself publicly. No claims of child abuse or difficulty on Bryn's part were raised as the reason for the custody hearing.

Bryn wasn't even mentioned in the custody documents  -- if this were really about her, I think she would have come up in the petition to the court.

Edited March 9, 2018 by film noire

[Rap541]

How can the custody petition for Brynn not be about Brynn's custody?

Quote

I didn't say the judge was pointlessly cruel:  I said it was pointlessly cruel to put a well adjusted child through a psych eval just because you want to control that child's relationship with the father.

The judge is the one who made the decision. If you're arguing Bethenny is being cruel in bringing the custody suit, I really have to say until the case is actually heard, there's no way to really know that. A well adjusted child will go thru a psych eval painlessly and pleasantly, it's not cruel torture, in a contentious situation, its probably a good idea. The judge's intent was not to be cruel or pointless.

Quote

Frankel set this train in motion, not the judge -- he didn't call her up and say "I'd love to order a psych eval on your well adjusted kid, so could you file for sole custody?" : )

Does Frankel not have the legal right to file for sole custody? I assure you, if she's done something frivolous, she'll pay a price.

Quote

Hoppy's lawyer said in court (speaking for Hoppy) that Bryn was happy and well adjusted. Frankel has said the same herself publicly. No claims of child abuse or difficulty on Bryn's part were raised as the reason for the custody hearing.

Hey if the claims are publically known, please point me to them. 

I trust you agree that Hoppy's lawyer, speaking for Hoppy, isn't likely to say "He's an abusive monster and I pray Bethenny wins this"? And I actually think Bethenny is bright enough to not say "Brynn is miserably unhappy during our custody time so I want her for longer."

Generally speaking, if Bethenny is making a ridiculous bid, it will be known soon enough. If she's got a legitimate issue - likewise. But until it does shake out, I can't agree with your opinion that sending the kid to a psych eval is a pointless and cruel act. I certainly might change my mind if it's revealed that Bethenny is just being obnoxious but until then the jury is out as far as I am concerned. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

Well, I don't agree that a psych eval is an emotional mindfield, nor do I think it's pointless and purely cruel. And I don't think the judge ordered it simply to be pointlessly cruel to a child. Considering how contentious and unpleasant both parents are, I also question the assumption that there's nothing to be concerned about. The judge obviously wants to be careful, a good thing, and I genuinely don't think this psych eval will be the thing Brynn points to as an adult with "Yes, this psych eval, this was the moment of pure torture that warped my soul into an unredeemable mess".

Since the custody case has barely begun with no facts being presented, isn't it a little early for anyone to be stating as a fact that Bethenny was acting needlessly and pointlessly?

Sure, maybe she is just being a bitch. Trust me when I say I consider that to be within the realm of possibility. But... what tempers my thoughts and makes me unwilling to say before any of this custody battle occurs that Bethenny has made a pointless and needless bid is that Bethenny isn't as dumb as a box of rocks. God knows she has her moments, but when it comes to legal things, Bethenny generally doesn't get into fights she doesn't think she can win. That tells me she's either completely delusional (maybe but her general ability to work etc suggests its unlikely) or she thinks she's got something on Jason that she thinks will score her sole custody. 

Now, much like I can't rule out Bethenny being totally delusional, I also can't rule out that Jason may have done something that would make a normal rational person question whether he should have access to her child. I suspect the truth is probably somewhere in the middle... but until this all shakes out in the courts, I can't and won't say Bethenny, or any mother for that matter, doesn't have the right to pursue sole custody if they believe something is seriously wrong.

And if Bethenny does get sole custody, is it impossible to believe there might be a reason for that? I mean, NY is not a state known for ripping children from their fathers. Honestly, I hope for Brynn's sake that Bethenny is just being a mess and using the courts to harass Jason the way some of you think... because if she's got something on him bad enough to alter custody... it would have to be pretty bad. But until this all shakes out, I don' t think any of us can say which side is right.

The simple fact that Bethenny doesn't claim that Bryn is being neglected/harmed when she is with Jason in her petition to gain "sole" custody speaks volumes IMO. This is all about Bethenny's wants/needs, not Bryn's. 

[film noire]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Again, this is all about Bethenny's wants/needs and nothing about what is best for Bryn.

I agree -- I guess the only bright spot is that Bryn is doing so well, Frankel couldn't find any custody issues regarding Bryn's emotional/physical situation, so Frankel had to make it about how she and Hoppy communicate with each other. (Which they absolutely need to resolve as parents going forward,  but not at the expense of putting Bryn through another custody fight.) 

Edited March 10, 2018 by film noire

[WireWrap]

25 minutes ago, film noire said:

I agree -- I guess the only bright spot is that Bryn is doing so well, Frankel couldn't find any custody issues regarding Bryn's emotional/physical situation, so Frankel had to make it about how she and Hoppy communicate with each other. (Which they absolutely need to resolve as parents going forward,  but not at the expense of putting Bryn through another custody fight.) 

I agree, Jason needs to stop reacting to Bethenny and continue to use a third party to handle all communications between them but Bethenny needs to stop baiting Jason as well. It's not just Jason doing this, it is Bethenny as well and I hope this judge sees that. Bottom line, Bethenny is doing the same thing to Bryn that she hates/blames her mother for doing to her/her dad when she was a child.

[BBHN]

Quote

The judge is the one who made the decision. If you're arguing Bethenny is being cruel in bringing the custody suit, I really have to say until the case is actually heard, there's no way to really know that. A well adjusted child will go thru a psych eval painlessly and pleasantly, it's not cruel torture, in a contentious situation, its probably a good idea. The judge's intent was not to be cruel or pointless.

Yeah, I'll wait for an official report before making an arm-chair psychiatric diagnosis.

[Happy Camper]

I can't help but wonder if Bryn knows that her mother is trying to keep her from seeing her dad, and if so, how she feels about that. I hope that the evaluation sheds light on that. My heart goes out to her. She is being used as a pawn, and it's an ugly thing for a parent to do.

I don't believe for a moment that Jason is causing harm to her as a father. Why can't people see that unless there is abuse or neglect, having a loving mom and dad (or mom and mom, or dad and dad) is really such a wonderful benefit for a child. If she's happy with her situation as it is, why the hell mess with it?

Whatever bullshit goes on between those two needs to be put aside, and they both need to put Bryn first. 

[biakbiak]

I do not understand why the proceedings are public in custody cases, talk about not beong in the best interest of the child.

[SuprSuprElevated]

10 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I do not understand why the proceedings are public in custody cases, talk about not beong in the best interest of the child.

Excellent point.

[RedDelicious]

Team Jason.

[QuinnM]

5 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

Whatever bullshit goes on between those two needs to be put aside, and they both need to put Bryn first.

Sole or primary custody does not mean that Jason doesn’t see Bryn.  It just means that his time and therefore support is reduced.  It means that he does not need to be consulted on various decisions but must get approval for most of his decisions.  And it’s not that unusual to revisit customary as children get older.  I have known kids that asked for sole custody because of a school they wanted to attend where the non-custodial parent lived in a district that had programs that they wanted to attend, etc.  So I hope Hoppy/Frankel don’t make a big deal of this.

It certainly isn’t helping the public nature of all this that Hoppy has already had his lawyer reach out to ROL of all places.

[diadochokinesis]

48 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Sole or primary custody does not mean that Jason doesn’t see Bryn.  It just means that his time and therefore support is reduced.  It means that he does not need to be consulted on various decisions but must get approval for most of his decisions.  And it’s not that unusual to revisit customary as children get older.  I have known kids that asked for sole custody because of a school they wanted to attend where the non-custodial parent lived in a district that had programs that they wanted to attend, etc.  So I hope Hoppy/Frankel don’t make a big deal of this.

It certainly isn’t helping the public nature of all this that Hoppy has already had his lawyer reach out to ROL of all places.

I was just about to type out this so thank you for saving me the time!  You can have one parent with sole custody while the other parent gets visitation rights.  It could be that Bethenny has proof that Hoppy isn't making good decisions for Bryn or is interfering in the joint decision-making process so therefore she wants sole custody since he wouldn't have the ability to interfere anymore. Bryn would still get to see her father. 

Someone also remind me to tell all the psychs at the pediatric therapy clinic that I work with that they are emotionally damaging children.  They would love that. 

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

Sole or primary custody does not mean that Jason doesn’t see Bryn.  It just means that his time and therefore support is reduced.  It means that he does not need to be consulted on various decisions but must get approval for most of his decisions.  And it’s not that unusual to revisit customary as children get older.  I have known kids that asked for sole custody because of a school they wanted to attend where the non-custodial parent lived in a district that had programs that they wanted to attend, etc.  So I hope Hoppy/Frankel don’t make a big deal of this.

It certainly isn’t helping the public nature of all this that Hoppy has already had his lawyer reach out to ROL of all places.

Since Bethenny's attorney mentioned it-I do think it is more about the money than anything else.  It is not that Bethenny can't afford the support payment she is just so damn bitter about having to pay Jason anything.  It seems pretty obvious she would rather see Jason spend money on attorneys fees than use the support to enhance his daughter's life.

It is very unusual to waltz into court with a significant change of circumstances to request a change of custody for a child who is well adjusted.  Jaosn having said via e-mail Bethenny is a sad bitter person doesn't warrant a custody change.

This is what the Jason's attorney allegedly said to Radar:  “The Judge merely ordered an update to the forensic evaluation.” Wallack said. “We hope that there will be no further custody fight since that would not be in Bryn’s best interests.”

I doubt the attorney reached out.  My guess is someone asked for a clarification after the court proceedings.

They won't release the results of the psychological exam.  They may have quotes from the pleadings but the judge will not allow the evaluations to be released.

[Rap541]

Correct me if I am wrong - the arguement is that Bethenny is a horrifying cruel bitch for daring to ask that the custody situation be reassessed because if Brynn isn't being abused, there's no problem and Bethenny is just being a bitch.

But if I understand the joint custody concept - these two parents who hate each other, to where one parent has gotten into trouble for sending hundreds of emails to the other, and who basically can't be in each other's presence - have to agree jointly on what after school activities Brynn participates in, where she goes, if she can go to a sleep over at a friend's house, what doctor she sees, etc etc etc. 

I know some people consider Jason a gentle saint of a man who always ducks his head at Bethenny's many many blows and is Christlike in accepting his lot but honestly, I can see where this is turning into a tug of war on *both* sides. Particularly as Brynn gets older and will want some say beyond watching her parents argue over every decision and every choice. 

This notion that if Bethenny gains sole custody, that she is effectively stripping Jason of access, that if she gains it, that she will take Brynn and close the door and Jason will never see his child until she's 18, is silly and totally at odds with how NYS handles custody. And honestly, if Bethenny is such a soul sucking demon then I don't understand why Jason Hoppy is content with joint custody and isn't  throwing every cent he has into gaining sole custody himself.

[BBHN]

Quote

if Bethenny is such a soul sucking demon then I don't understand why Jason Hoppy is content with joint custody and isn't  throwing every cent he has into gaining sole custody himself.

Because he's still hoping to ride the Bethenny Gravy Train, first class of course, for as long as he can.

[QuinnM]

Quote

In a statement to Radar, Wallack said Frankel’s “claims of verbal abuse and harassment are untrue and not borne out by the evidence.”

Or he could have said no comment because the entire effin world knows Hoppy has a problem with boundaries.  He can pretend that innocent people are under no contact agreements all the time but yeah.

The other reason custody is changed up is that one of the parties has a job circumstance that has the child with surrogates.  So I’m traveling M-TH and I have my nanny/grannie pick the child up on Wed.  Thursday night I return home after bedtime.  Child and I enjoy Fri-Sun together.  Then I fly off.  Nanny/grannie cares for the child M-W am.  So the other parent says, yeah no.  This is a custody between the dad and the mom, not various random people.  If the dad is not there then I’ll take care of our child.  And it doesn’t mean that the dad never again has 50/50.  Just until his job circumstance changes.  If there is communication with the parents you don’t even need a custody change.  They just handle it.  But with these two you need a judge.

Who knows?  We might find out or we might just get the decision in court.  Or they might get the reports back and for gods sake come to agreement without a judge so we don’t get a view of their dirty laundry.  

[Celia Rubenstein]

.

3 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Sole or primary custody does not mean that Jason doesn’t see Bryn.  It just means that his time and therefore support is reduced.  It means that he does not need to be consulted on various decisions but must get approval for most of his decisions.  And it’s not that unusual to revisit customary as children get older.  I have known kids that asked for sole custody because of a school they wanted to attend where the non-custodial parent lived in a district that had programs that they wanted to attend, etc.  So I hope Hoppy/Frankel don’t make a big deal of this.

 

 

11 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

The other reason custody is changed up is that one of the parties has a job circumstance that has the child with surrogates.  So I’m traveling M-TH and I have my nanny/grannie pick the child up on Wed.  Thursday night I return home after bedtime.  Child and I enjoy Fri-Sun together.  Then I fly off.  Nanny/grannie cares for the child M-W am.  So the other parent says, yeah no.  This is a custody between the dad and the mom, not various random people.  If the dad is not there then I’ll take care of our child.  And it doesn’t mean that the dad never again has 50/50.  Just until his job circumstance changes.  If there is communication with the parents you don’t even need a custody change.  They just handle it.  But with these two you need a judge.

Thank you for explaining all this ... There may be any number of perfectly understandable reasons why Bethenny is seeking an adjustment to the custody arrangement. Bryn is getting older and people's lives change ... It is not at all uncommon to alter custody agreements to address new situations as they arise.

It is actually possible that Bethenny is not motivated by an evil, sick, selfish need to cut Saint Jason out of Bryn's life simply because she is a spiteful shrew who enjoys screwing with people and has zero regard for how much harm she does to her daughter, LOL.   A change in the custody agreement may actually be a good thing for Bryn in the sense that it will just generally make everything much easier.  Maybe Jason is being needlessly difficult in some way and Bethenny just wants more power to make simple decisions on her own without having to fight with him.  It certainly would explain why Bethenny hasn't claimed Bryn is being neglected or harmed by Jason, which has been cited as clear proof that Bethenny is just being selfish and there is no need to be going to court (as if abuse or neglect are the only legitimate reasons to revisit custody).  I think that rather than being selfish, it's possible Bethenny is merely being practical. Just trying to cut down on the strife and drama a bit .... how could that be a bad, selfish thing?

I think the term "sole custody" is making some people think Bethenny is out to block Jason from ever seeing Bryn again but that is simply not the case.  It's about the power to make decisions about the child.  Given how poorly Jason and Bethenny get along, I'm not at all surprised one of them has come forward asking for the right to be the one who calls the shots.  Someone has to take the lead because it's clear the two of them can't work together. 

[WireWrap]

3 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Sole or primary custody does not mean that Jason doesn’t see Bryn.  It just means that his time and therefore support is reduced.  It means that he does not need to be consulted on various decisions but must get approval for most of his decisions.  And it’s not that unusual to revisit customary as children get older.  I have known kids that asked for sole custody because of a school they wanted to attend where the non-custodial parent lived in a district that had programs that they wanted to attend, etc.  So I hope Hoppy/Frankel don’t make a big deal of this.

It certainly isn’t helping the public nature of all this that Hoppy has already had his lawyer reach out to ROL of all places.

There is a world of difference between sole custody and primary custody! Having sole custody means that Bethenny has complete say if and when Bryn has any contact with Jason and she can move Bryn out of state without needing his permission. Primary custody means that Jason still gets regular visits with Bryn per court order but only Bethenny has the power to make decisions (medical/school/ect) but she can not move Bryn out of state. Oh, and Bethenny would have to pay child support to Jason if she had primary custody, so there is no need for her to go for sole other than moving Bryn out of state or cutting Jason out of Bryn's life.

50 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Or he could have said no comment because the entire effin world knows Hoppy has a problem with boundaries.  He can pretend that innocent people are under no contact agreements all the time but yeah.

The other reason custody is changed up is that one of the parties has a job circumstance that has the child with surrogates.  So I’m traveling M-TH and I have my nanny/grannie pick the child up on Wed.  Thursday night I return home after bedtime.  Child and I enjoy Fri-Sun together.  Then I fly off.  Nanny/grannie cares for the child M-W am.  So the other parent says, yeah no.  This is a custody between the dad and the mom, not various random people.  If the dad is not there then I’ll take care of our child.  And it doesn’t mean that the dad never again has 50/50.  Just until his job circumstance changes.  If there is communication with the parents you don’t even need a custody change.  They just handle it.  But with these two you need a judge.

Who knows?  We might find out or we might just get the decision in court.  Or they might get the reports back and for gods sake come to agreement without a judge so we don’t get a view of their dirty laundry.  

Sorry, I call BS on Bethenny's claim that no one watches Bryn when she is with her. Bethenny uses her assistant's to watch her/pick her up from school, which is no different than a nanny/babysitter/grandparent doing it for Jason.

[Rap541]

And frankly I call BS on Jason being with Brynn 24/7 no babysitter or nanny too. We're talking about two working parents. If Bethenny is being to a "If Brybn is with me, then the entire time is Brynn's time, absolutely nothing but Brynn time", then I insist Jason be held to that as well... and I don't know many working adults who can manage that. So are we going to insist on that? If Brynn is with Jason on Jason's time then every waking moment of Jason's time is FOR Brynn, he's joined to her hip for all three days? Or is he allowed to call a sitter with out shame or consequence?

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

.

 

 

Thank you for explaining all this ... There may be any number of perfectly understandable reasons why Bethenny is seeking an adjustment to the custody arrangement. Bryn is getting older and people's lives change ... It is not at all uncommon to alter custody agreements to address new situations as they arise.

It is actually possible that Bethenny is not motivated by an evil, sick, selfish need to cut Saint Jason out of Bryn's life simply because she is a spiteful shrew who enjoys screwing with people and has zero regard for how much harm she does to her daughter, LOL.   A change in the custody agreement may actually be a good thing for Bryn in the sense that it will just generally make everything much easier.  Maybe Jason is being needlessly difficult in some way and Bethenny just wants more power to make simple decisions on her own without having to fight with him.  It certainly would explain why Bethenny hasn't claimed Bryn is being neglected or harmed by Jason, which has been cited as clear proof that Bethenny is just being selfish and there is no need to be going to court (as if abuse or neglect are the only legitimate reasons to revisit custody).  I think that rather than being selfish, it's possible Bethenny is merely being practical. Just trying to cut down on the strife and drama a bit .... how could that be a bad, selfish thing?

I think the term "sole custody" is making some people think Bethenny is out to block Jason from ever seeing Bryn again but that is simply not the case.  It's about the power to make decisions about the child.  Given how poorly Jason and Bethenny get along, I'm not at all surprised one of them has come forward asking for the right to be the one who calls the shots.  Someone has to take the lead because it's clear the two of them can't work together. 

Bethenny is not Bryn's only parent though, Jason is her father and has as a right to have a say in their daughters life. You did pick the correct word though, this is all about "power" to Bethenny, she needs to control everyone/thing in her life. 

Just now, Rap541 said:

And frankly I call BS on Jason being with Brynn 24/7 no babysitter or nanny too. We're talking about two working parents. If Bethenny is being to a "If Brybn is with me, then the entire time is Brynn's time, absolutely nothing but Brynn time", then I insist Jason be held to that as well... and I don't know many working adults who can manage that. So are we going to insist on that? If Brynn is with Jason on Jason's time then every waking moment of Jason's time is FOR Brynn, he's joined to her hip for all three days? Or is he allowed to call a sitter with out shame or consequence?

As far as I or anyone here knows, Jason has never claimed to never use a babysitter/nanny/help with Bryn, only Bethenny has made that claim, so only she can be held accountable for that claim. Also, I was responding to a poster that made the argument that Jason uses help when he has Bryn but that Bethenny doesn't, again, Bethenny's claim is BS.

[Rap541]

So if Jason never says he uses a baysitter, then he CAN use a babysitter and is still St. Jason? Really? Jason can stick the kid with a babysitter every night if he pleases and as long as he never admits it publically, he's not on any hook? While Bethenny, horror of horrors, uses a babysitter/nanny and is therefore a terrible parent for... I'm sorry, when did using a babysitter equal child abuse?

[Celia Rubenstein]

10 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny is not Bryn's only parent though, Jason is her father and has as a right to have a say in their daughters life. You did pick the correct word though, this is all about "power" to Bethenny, she needs to control everyone/thing in her life. 

It's not about Bethenny "needing" to control anyone. Bryn is a child. Someone has to make decisions for her. Ideally that would be both her parents, but when parents can't make decisions together, the court often has to award the power to make decisions to the one parent best suited to do the job. Bethenny didn't invent the concept of sole custody, you know ... it exists for a reason.  And the reason is some divorced parents simply cannot work together. Bethenny and Jason are a perfect example.

As far as Jason's rights as a father .... Jason may well have forfeited his right to have a say so in his daughter's life by being a childish, recalcitrant obstructionist who needlessly complicates every situation with unreasonable demands and delays. The judge will decide. Just because he is Bryn's father doesn't mean he gets to make an unnecessary obstacle of himself at every opportunity just to exact revenge or make himself feel powerful.

It may well be Jason's need to be in control that is at the root of the problem, rather than Bethenny's need for control. 

[Juliegirlj]

To understand Bethenny’s true nature one need only watch an episode of Bethenny and Fredrick. She is a massive control freak and her fame has fed her ego. 

Im not saying Jason is without fault, but, he is Brynn’s father and it is wrong for Bethenny to use her as a pawn to get back at Jason. 

Bethenny and Jason should both be having a psych evaluation. There is absolutely no reason for them to drag their kid into this circus. Grow up, get over yourselves and make your daughter the number one priority. 

[film noire]

5 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

Someone also remind me to tell all the psychs at the pediatric therapy clinic that I work with that they are emotionally damaging children. 

If you're going to snark on my comments,  please base it on what I actually said (that it's cruel & pointless to make a well-adjusted child go through a psych eval in service to your custody battle) and not what somebody else claimed I said ; )

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

 Having sole custody means that Bethenny has complete say if and when Bryn has any contact with Jason and she can move Bryn out of state without needing his permission. 

And it also means Frankel has sole say over Bryn becoming part of Brynnygirl, being on tv, etc, which is a big change from the current situation.

Edited March 10, 2018 by film noire