Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[jinjer]

Yes the custody was where Bethenny testified and it was years ago.  The divorce just settled and was made final this year. 

[QuinnM]

Quote

Again, Bethenny settled and Jason got what he wanted, which was shared custody.

Jason filed for sole custody.  He wanted alimony and the apartment and his lawyer paid and a cash settlement.  He got none of that and that is why he's been arrested. 

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Jason filed for sole custody.  He wanted alimony and the apartment and his lawyer paid and a cash settlement.  He got none of that and that is why he's been arrested. 

Bethenny filed for "sole" custody first, then Jason did. He then changed his to "shared" and Bethenny changed hers to "primary". Even the custody Judge advised Bethenny to amend hers to "shared" but she didn't until after she testified in court about Jason then right before Jason was to take the stand, she agreed to his terms, "shared" custody. As for the divorce, there isn't much know about it because it was kept private, there are no public records of what either of them asked for, that is outside what Bethenny has told reporters.

[glowbug]

Whatever his initial filing (there's some dispute over that) Jason was seeking joint custody from very early on. Bethenny filed for primary physical and legal custody. The hearing where she testified to all the horrible things Jason did was a custody hearing. She testified and then before he could defend himself she settled for joint custody, which is what he was seeking at the time. It seemed like a very calculated move on her part. 

I side eye Jason because he chose to marry Bethenny. He clearly has issues. I also didn't like him during season 3 of RHNY and I never watched either of Bethenny's spinoffs. But, publicly at least, he has behaved much better than Bethenny in this divorce fiasco. He sought joint custody, which except in very rare instances, is usually in the best interests of the child and he did not publicly trash Bethenny or sell his side of the story to the tabloids. Her public actions with regard to her divorce, on the other hand, are a model of what not to do if you care at all about your child's best interests. Privately, he might be just as horrible as she is publicly but I can't judge someone's private life when I'm not privy to it and knowing what I know about Bethenny I won't judge him based solely on what she says he's done. I'm reserving judgment on him until the emails are released and he has had his say in court, although it doesn't look good for him. I hope for Bryn's sake Jason isn't as awful as Bethenny claims he is because otherwise she has no hope because, IMO, Bethenny has shown herself to be a horrible person and has repeatedly acted in ways that are harmful to Bryn.

Edited April 29, 2017 by glowbug

[chick binewski]

On 4/28/2017 at 9:31 PM, motorcitymom65 said:

Seeing the emails will be everything - one way or the other. There are so many people who will find an excuse for Jason's behavior no matter what he does. I am convinced he could threaten her life in an email and the excuse would be something about how he must have PTSD from living with her. It just never ever ends. I have wondered what the response would be had Beth been the one sending the barrage of emails. Copying Jason's co-workers and his girlfriend. All day everyday. Calling him unstable and warning off potential love interests. Folks would light her house on fire. Talk about how she wanted him to suffer, how she just couldn't let it all go and had to win. But for some reason there are excuses made as to why he had to send so many emails and copy other people. If you are a normal bloke, when someone says stop, you just stop. So far, I think she has handled this all very well. 

I don't think you're wrong on this re the tendency to defend Jason above and beyond. But I think much of it comes from seeing Bethenny on TV for 10 years and nothing tracking in her recollection of personal relationships. We've watched her eviscerate people over absolutely nothing while getting in every plug possible to make another dollar or start another show. We've watched her have absolutely no patience for anyone when she's bored. On the other hand we've never seen Jason directly address the press since BEA & the talk show stopped airing. So it may not be fair but I can't help thinking Bethenny simply wants Jason gone like a puff of smoke and will do anything to make that happen.   

19 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Could you direct a fellow nosy person to some place where he could read about Bethenny's one day of testimony regarding Jason's stunts?

http://people.com/crime/bethenny-frankel-living-with-jason-hoppy-was-brutal-horrendous-excruciating

From the bastion of legal reporting, People magazine. 

[breezy424]

Beth always thought that when she filed for divorce it was going to be a situation where she would have primary custody and Jason would get Bryn every other weekend.  I think she was shell shocked that it didn't turn out that way. 

As for the custody hearing, I think she still believed she had a chance of sole or primary custody and her lawyers told her that that's not going to happen but she still wanted the chance to get on the stand and trash Jason.  The problem was that her testimony to prove her case for custody was pretty lame.  Beth agreed to settle after that because she didn't want to be cross examined and she didn't want to give Jason a chance to testify.  It was all, IMO, very calculated at that point.  She 'needed' to say that she was tortured and put through hell.

No one knows, like Wire has stated, what is in their divorce settlement.  Beth has said she got the condo back but no one knows what the settlement was in the end. The documents are for all intensive purposes, sealed.

As for Beth's latest claims about Jason, I take it with a grain of salt.  Beth 'is' The Great Exaggerator.  And...I can't imagine what it would be like dealing with Beth in a situation where she has to share joint custody of your child.  And I'll always give kuddo's to Jason for not going public with all of this.  He absolutely could have and made a significant amount of money in the process.  The same can't be said of Beth.  She takes every moment she can to bad mouth her child's father.  That's just not cool.  It's not good for Bryn. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

12 hours ago, breezy424 said:

And I'll always give kuddo's to Jason for not going public with all of this.  He absolutely could have and made a significant amount of money in the process. 

This idea gets thrown around all the time and I have never understood it. Jason Hoppy is a nobody.  He's the ex-husband of D list reality star relatively few people have even heard of and who even fewer give a shit about.  The assertion that he selflessly passed up the opportunity to enrich himself by sharing the shocking details of his life with Bethenny is to wildly overestimate the public's interest in his story.

That's not to say there would be no public interest at all, of course.  I think most of us here would love to hear what he has to say. But the idea that significant sums of money could have changed hands seems far-fetched to me. I guess it depends on your definition of the word "significant."  Because I don't think Jason would have made as much as some people think.  He could have given one, maybe two interviews before he was out of anecdotes and his story was stale and the world moved on. I doubt he would have made the cover of People ... maybe a lower-tier rag like Ok! would give him a cover, but how much do they pay? Not much. If he went beyond the low five figures, I'd be surprised.

It's my opinion that rather than being this magnanimous gentleman who'd rather eat glass than say anything bad about his child's mother because she might see it one day, Jason was just being smart by maintaining the appearance of taking the high road.  It made him look slightly less like a gold-digging carpetbagger with his hand in his wife's pocketbook. I am sure his lawyers made him aware that judges notice things like that and explained the simple math to him - by running his mouth he risked losing much more than he could have possibly made if he had talked.  I see Jason's silence as more of a practical, strategic matter than a moral one, essentially.

Unfortunately, given the high probability that his continued silence was part of whatever settlement was reached, it's unlikely there will ever be the kind of tell-all interview so many of us would love to read. Those emails are probably as close as we will get, and as many here have already stated - can't wait to find out what's in them!

[chick binewski]

5 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

This idea gets thrown around all the time and I have never understood it. Jason Hoppy is a nobody.  He's the ex-husband of D list reality star relatively few people have even heard of and who even fewer give a shit about.  The assertion that he selflessly passed up the opportunity to enrich himself by sharing the shocking details of his life with Bethenny is to wildly overestimate the public's interest in his story.

That's not to say there would be no public interest at all, of course.  I think most of us here would love to hear what he has to say. But the idea that significant sums of money could have changed hands seems far-fetched to me. I guess it depends on your definition of the word "significant."  Because I don't think Jason would have made as much as some people think.  He could have given one, maybe two interviews before he was out of anecdotes and his story was stale and the world moved on. I doubt he would have made the cover of People ... maybe a lower-tier rag like Ok! would give him a cover, but how much do they pay? Not much. If he went beyond the low five figures, I'd be surprised.

It's my opinion that rather than being this magnanimous gentleman who'd rather eat glass than say anything bad about his child's mother because she might see it one day, Jason was just being smart by maintaining the appearance of taking the high road.  It made him look slightly less like a gold-digging carpetbagger with his hand in his wife's pocketbook. I am sure his lawyers made him aware that judges notice things like that and explained the simple math to him - by running his mouth he risked losing much more than he could have possibly made if he had talked.  I see Jason's silence as more of a practical, strategic matter than a moral one, essentially.

Unfortunately, given the high probability that his continued silence was part of whatever settlement was reached, it's unlikely there will ever be the kind of tell-all interview so many of us would love to read. Those emails are probably as close as we will get, and as many here have already stated - can't wait to find out what's in them!

I think every scenario you mentioned in your post is quite possible, but Bethenny continues to mention that Jason loved fame and wanted what was hers. I don't think some of us would keep bringing it up if Bethenny didn't bark it out every season. It's not so much that I see Hoppy as being a gentleman but rather that I see Bethenny conducting herself as a pit bull. I just can't help but extrapolate the behavior that's visible to us into her playing dirty with her ex and her kid. 

[motorcitymom65]

33 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

I think every scenario you mentioned in your post is quite possible, but Bethenny continues to mention that Jason loved fame and wanted what was hers. I don't think some of us would keep bringing it up if Bethenny didn't bark it out every season. It's not so much that I see Hoppy as being a gentleman but rather that I see Bethenny conducting herself as a pit bull. I just can't help but extrapolate the behavior that's visible to us into her playing dirty with her ex and her kid. 

But hasn't Jason been behaving for years and years like he loved fame and wanted what was hers? Hasn't that largely been the point of it all? They had a terrible marriage and Beth wanted a divorce and he wanted more than what he was entitled too? If he hadn't been asking for more than she wanted to give, wouldn't this whole deal have ended years and years ago? And then when it is finally all done and can finally be put to bed, he begins inundating her with hundreds of vile and insulting emails. Every single day. Keeping it all going. Continuing with the bitterness and anger. Not just with her, but including people that she works with and her boyfriend. I am trying to figure out a situation where anyone would have read that Beth had done the same to him - copying his co-workers and love interest, saying horrible things in email after email - and would have thought that there was one single reason why that would be OK, or normal, or healthy. Imagine if she would have continued, even after receiving a C&D letter from a fancy attorney? Would anyone feel sorry for her? Folks would be saying it was an example of how she was keeping it all going and couldn't let it go. Folks, the police filed criminal charges against him after reading these emails. This is some seriously sick behavior from Jason. IMO, even if the emails were not horrendous, and trust me when they are viewed there will be people who will say "geez, what's the big deal", it doesn't really matter. It is not normal to send hundreds of emails to someone who has asked you to stop. He needs to move the fuck on. 

[WireWrap]

Bottom line, we have no idea what was in the pre-nup, none and we don't know what Jason asked for in the divorce because the divorce was kept private. The only info out there is what Bethenny has put out, which is naturally slanted in her favor. It could well be that Jason was a greedy ass but it is just as likely that he wasn't. We will never know until Jason tells his side of things or the divorce court documents are released to the public and I don't see either happening. And, I don't find Bethenny trustworthy so I am not about to believe her version.

Edited May 2, 2017 by WireWrap

[breezy424]

I don't necessarily see that Jason loved fame and wanted what was Beth's.  I think he pretty much hated the fame portion the last season of BEA.  As for what was Beth's, we have no idea of what he and Beth agreed upon.  Beth asked for his help before she made the Beam deal with her partner.  And he did just that.  Beth 'did' sign the papers for the trust that set up ownership of the Tribecca apartment.  She claimed she didn't know what she was signing.  That's not very 'Bethenny Frankel' like.

Wait.  Hundreds of emails? According to who?  The great exaggerator?  What was in all those emails?  According to who?  And no one has the facts as to what are in 'all' those emails.

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2017/02/01/police-suspect-bethenny-frankel-exaggerating-claims-against-ex-jason-hoppy-for-revenge/

Beth has continued to talk about her ex any chance she gets.  And like it or not, there are plenty of media organizations that would love to get Jason's version of all this.  I think he would get a significant amount of money for his side of the story.  But... in the end he hasn't said a thing.  One can think that no one is going to pay him but the fact is 'he' hasn't talked.  And for a guy who supposedly wants fame, that doesn't make sense.

[glowbug]

I think Jason could have gotten decent money for a tell all, and could have revealed things that would have hurt Bethenny, who was dragging him through the mud and still is. I know I would have a hard time keeping my mouth shut if my ex was going around trashing me to anyone and everyone who would listen, though I would force myself to stay silent if we had children together because I've seen firsthand the harmful affect it can have on a child caught in the middle. Regardless of his motives, Jason's actions were still in the best interests of his child and since I cannot possibly know his motives I'm simply giving him credit for his behavior in public.

I have acknowledged that in private he may be as awful as Bethenny says he is but, again, her word isn't enough for me so I'm not going to condemn him until there's some corroborating evidence. Perhaps these emails will be that evidence. So far, from what has been leaked, the emails don't sound out of line although the volume of them seems high if those numbers are correct. At the same time I've seen what parental alienation can do to a parent who is on the receiving end of it. Bethenny clearly wanted Jason to have limited/no contact with his daughter (with the filing for primary physical and legal custody, plus she wanted to move Bryn across the country to Los Angeles when her father lives in New York) and the leaked statements from his emails seem to indicate that he feels that she's still trying to do it. Again, I want to see more from those emails before I pass judgment. Maybe the real scary stuff hasn't been revealed yet. 

I also don't believe her claims that he's a fame whore because, like others have pointed out, his actions post separation have not been of someone who craves fame. If anything, it seems like he's sought privacy. As for the money issue, too much of that is private so I can't say what he was seeking, what I think he should have been entitled to and what Bethenny thinks she owes him. I tend to think she wanted him to have less than he deserved, he wanted more than he deserved and the judge probably granted him something in between. Bethenny would have been gloating if she had gotten everything she wanted (even if she had to spend more on legal fees than a settlement) and she was clearly not happy with the result so that tells me he got more than she wanted him to have. We know he got less than he wanted since she got the apartment and was able to stop paying spousal support and I'm sure there were other things he didn't get that we aren't privy to as well. 

[motorcitymom65]

6 hours ago, breezy424 said:

I don't necessarily see that Jason loved fame and wanted what was Beth's.  I think he pretty much hated the fame portion the last season of BEA.  As for what was Beth's, we have no idea of what he and Beth agreed upon.  Beth asked for his help before she made the Beam deal with her partner.  And he did just that.  Beth 'did' sign the papers for the trust that set up ownership of the Tribecca apartment.  She claimed she didn't know what she was signing.  That's not very 'Bethenny Frankel' like.

Wait.  Hundreds of emails? According to who?  The great exaggerator?  What was in all those emails?  According to who?  And no one has the facts as to what are in 'all' those emails.

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2017/02/01/police-suspect-bethenny-frankel-exaggerating-claims-against-ex-jason-hoppy-for-revenge/

Beth has continued to talk about her ex any chance she gets.  And like it or not, there are plenty of media organizations that would love to get Jason's version of all this.  I think he would get a significant amount of money for his side of the story.  But... in the end he hasn't said a thing.  One can think that no one is going to pay him but the fact is 'he' hasn't talked.  And for a guy who supposedly wants fame, that doesn't make sense.

But how does anyone know who this "source in the police department is"? Could be a friend of Hoppy's. A friend of Hoppy's attorney. Could be a guy who went through a horrible divorce and has a major bias. We have zero idea. The idea that Hoppy has just kept quiet has always been funny to me. So what if there aren't direct quotes attributed to him. There are more ways than that for a guy to hammer away at someone. There have been plenty of stories about Beth and the divorce that talk of "friends of" and give a sympathetic slant to Hoppy.  I think that he probably could have gotten some money to dish on Beth. Not a huge stream of income, but a one or two time hit to tell what he knew and as someone else said upthread, after he told the story, the money would go away. Just like Cedric with the LVP deal. He talked a couple of times, probably got a paycheck or two, and then no one cared anymore. Anyone think he wouldn't have kept talking and talking if someone were still paying him?  I don't think the money Jason could have gotten would have been in the same universe as the money he was seeking from Beth. Why do something to put a larger settlement at risk? The bottom line is that he was arrested. A judge hearing the evidence, who could have dismissed the charges at his discretion, decided to schedule it for trial.

[motorcitymom65]

4 hours ago, glowbug said:

 

I have acknowledged that in private he may be as awful as Bethenny says he is but, again, her word isn't enough for me so I'm not going to condemn him until there's some corroborating evidence. Perhaps these emails will be that evidence. So far, from what has been leaked, the emails don't sound out of line although the volume of them seems high if those numbers are correct. At the same time I've seen what parental alienation can do to a parent who is on the receiving end of it. Bethenny clearly wanted Jason to have limited/no contact with his daughter (with the filing for primary physical and legal custody, plus she wanted to move Bryn across the country to Los Angeles when her father lives in New York) and the leaked statements from his emails seem to indicate that he feels that she's still trying to do it. Again, I want to see more from those emails before I pass judgment. Maybe the real scary stuff hasn't been revealed yet.

But that has been years ago. The custody part of the deal was settled a long time ago. He isn't alienated at this point. He has Brynn half of the time. Maybe he is still angry about the way that all turned out, but if so, he is the one who needs to move on. That deal was judicated a long time ago. And if he doesn't want to be in the press, he needs to stop doing things that get him in the press.  The email thing was presented in the media as was the part about Dennis sending him a C&D. He still continued to send emails and then did the thing at Brynn's school. If you don't want people thinking you are a loon, stop acting like a loon. It sounds to me like his behavior is escalating. Maybe the emails won't sound so bad, but with things like this there is often a starting point, a middle and an end, with the behavior escalating along the way. Even if he was just sending her tons of emails to fuck with her and get under her skin, that says something about him. Something that someone in law enforcement thought was dangerous. 

[Ellee]

As far as all of this goes is that law enforcement is going to 'err' on the side of caution.  Especially when there is a 'famous' person involved.  This caution might be the reason that Jason was charged.  It also might be the reason that the charges were not dropped  

'Err' and 'famous' are probably not the best words to use. 

Don't know what the reality of this situation is.  Just know that Brynn shouldn't have to live through it. 

[glowbug]

How do you know she hasn't stopped trying to alienate him? Parents can still attempt to alienate another parent after a custody agreement has been reached. I still maintain that Bethenny's claim that he's a fame whore isn't matching his behavior. I don't think anything he's done was to try to get famous despite having opportunities to do so. Confronting Bethenny at the school and the excessive emails were obviously poor choices on his part but the context of those emails and the confrontation matter too. No matter what it was inappropriate but if he's doing these things because he's unhinged and just wants to destroy her based on past grievances that's different than if she's provoking him. It's still wrong either way but in one case he's a psychopath who is potentially dangerous, and in another he's a desperate man trying to stop her from negatively impacting his relationship with his daughter. All I'm saying is I don't know what's going on and I'm waiting for more information. I'm willing to condemn him if the evidence points in the direction of him being an unhinged psychopath. 

[QuinnM]

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No matter what it was inappropriate but if he's doing these things because he's unhinged and just wants to destroy her based on past grievances that's different than if she's provoking him

This is abuse.  He is the abuser.  She is the victim.  I will not listen to someone talking about how 'she deserved it'.  I don't care if it is Bethenny Frankel or Jane Doe.  The behavior is illegal.  It is illegal for a reason. 

Quote

It's still wrong either way but in one case he's a psychopath who is potentially dangerous, and in another he's a desperate man trying to stop her from negatively impacting his relationship with his daughter

And in both cases it is illegal and he is a criminal.  That is what the court will decide.  The law is not it is ok if he is a desperate man trying to stop her from negatively impacting his relationship with his daughter.

There is no excuse.

[zoeysmom]

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But how does anyone know who this "source in the police department is"? Could be a friend of Hoppy's. A friend of Hoppy's attorney. Could be a guy who went through a horrible divorce and has a major bias. We have zero idea. The idea that Hoppy has just kept quiet has always been funny to me. So what if there aren't direct quotes attributed to him. There are more ways than that for a guy to hammer away at someone. There have been plenty of stories about Beth and the divorce that talk of "friends of" and give a sympathetic slant to Hoppy.  I think that he probably could have gotten some money to dish on Beth. Not a huge stream of income, but a one or two time hit to tell what he knew and as someone else said upthread, after he told the story, the money would go away. Just like Cedric with the LVP deal. He talked a couple of times, probably got a paycheck or two, and then no one cared anymore. Anyone think he wouldn't have kept talking and talking if someone were still paying him?  I don't think the money Jason could have gotten would have been in the same universe as the money he was seeking from Beth. Why do something to put a larger settlement at risk? The bottom line is that he was arrested. A judge hearing the evidence, who could have dismissed the charges at his discretion, decided to schedule it for trial.

A judge has not heard the evidence, nor has a grand jury as the crimes in which he is charged are  B misdemeanors.  Jason been arraigned and entered a plea and turned down a plea offer. Next step is an evidentiary trial. No witnesses have been sworn so a judge has not heard the evidence nor has the defense cross examined.   The only thing determined by the court was to keep an order of protection in place pending the trial.

From what I have read for the most part have been quotes from Jason's attorneys.  Other sources come from questionable publications essentially quoting sources close to Hoppy.  To me, it sounds like writers' speculating because after all this time it would seem someone "close" would come forward or there would be something of interest. 

If Bethenny paid for Jason silence, I would think the silence would be mutual.  I guess we will all see some day what Jason's beef with Bethenny is. 

My guess is the little one may be carrying observations and conversations between mom and dad.  Can't fault the child, she is only six years old.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

This is abuse.  He is the abuser.  She is the victim.  I will not listen to someone talking about how 'she deserved it'.  I don't care if it is Bethenny Frankel or Jane Doe.  The behavior is illegal.  It is illegal for a reason. 

And in both cases it is illegal and he is a criminal.  That is what the court will decide.  The law is not it is ok if he is a desperate man trying to stop her from negatively impacting his relationship with his daughter.

There is no excuse.

Provoking is different than deserving.  A person can provoke someone with words, hand gestures or facial expressions.  In my world it is never an excuse for physical violence.  If someone referenced another as a thief on national TV, I would not find it harassing or annoying or stalking to put them on blast via e-mail or in person tell them their behavior will not be tolerated.  Someone on a bullhorn calling another a "stupid ho" is not an excuse to pummel another and drag her around by her hair because she felt provoked.  Nor did the victim of the assault deserve it. 

Jason has not been tried or convicted so it would seem premature to label him a criminal.

Not all cases are created equal if a person has a platform to regularly defame another that person by virtue of their power is in a superior position so their provocation can be seen as having an advantage.  Arriving to a mutual destination with supporters may be deemed as provoking.  Similarly a person who regularly publicly berates others with slurs and derogatory language may not be held to same standard of vulnerability as others when it comes to determining if they have suffered some form of emotional stress.  All for the finders of fact to decide-either a jury or the bench. 

I don't know if Jason's defense counsel plans on using implied threats of parental alienation as a defense.  If there are 12 diverse jurors justice may not be as swift as one might predict. 

Since this is all about speculation I am wondering how many of these e-mails and the rub between these two are over the twice a day phone calls the non-custodial parent is entitled to by court order.  Sometimes divorced parents are just not able to set aside their differences to make such a situation work.  No blame just a reality check.

[Otherkate]

5 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Not all cases are created equal if a person has a platform to regularly defame another that person by virtue of their power is in a superior position so their provocation can be seen as having an advantage.  Arriving to a mutual destination with supporters may be deemed as provoking.  Similarly a person who regularly publicly berates others with slurs and derogatory language may not be held to same standard of vulnerability as others when it comes to determining if they have suffered some form of emotional stress.  All for the finders of fact to decide-either a jury or the bench. 

Has this been happening? I don't really see Bethenny doing these things these days but it's possible I just haven't seen it. 

Also, if you genuinely believe that parental alienation is happening, keep records, document, and go through your lawyer.

[Ellee]

i don't normally follow this kind of thing but I have to say this might be the exception.  I appreciate all the points being made here. 

Question.  What parallels if any do you see of B's upbringing and mother/father relationships?  I'm thinking Jason knows the details of all that.  Is that coloring his behavior?  What about B? Is she acting like her mother did when dealing with her father?  

:D  Have to say I hope I come back in an hour or two to read your thoughts. Or if any of that even comes in to play here.  

[zoeysmom]

42 minutes ago, Ellee said:

i don't normally follow this kind of thing but I have to say this might be the exception.  I appreciate all the points being made here. 

Question.  What parallels if any do you see of B's upbringing and mother/father relationships?  I'm thinking Jason knows the details of all that.  Is that coloring his behavior?  What about B? Is she acting like her mother did when dealing with her father?  

:D  Have to say I hope I come back in an hour or two to read your thoughts. Or if any of that even comes in to play here.  

Bethenny parents split up when she was four or five and her father moved to the west coast and her mother married a former friend of Bethenny's dad.  Either through Bethenny's mother withholding Bethenny or Bethenny's dad having essentially abandoning her she did not have significant contact with her father growing up.  So from Bethenny's experience she never experienced a healthy co-parenting situation.  Jason parents are still married so he never had to deal with being a child of divorce.  Bethenny relayed one story that she was about 10 years old she to go see her father on the west coast and shortly before she was to leave someone (not her) got sick so the trip was never realized.   IIRC there was never a trip booked in its place.  Don't remember who she blamed for the let down.

It may be why she didn't place an emphasis on extended family get togethers at the holidays or just doesn't see the need constant contact with Jason in Bryn's life.  Then again it may be a simple as she doesn't want Jason contacting her or showing up at the child's school during her time as she doesn't impede on his time with Bryn.  One would hope that both parties realize it is the child's best interest for her to have on going, continual and frequent contact with both parents.  One thing is for certain neither party is ever going to be happy with joint custody.  It seems to me it is now more a battle of wills to see who will concede joint custody.   

[chick binewski]

7 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But that has been years ago. The custody part of the deal was settled a long time ago. He isn't alienated at this point. He has Brynn half of the time. Maybe he is still angry about the way that all turned out, but if so, he is the one who needs to move on. That deal was judicated a long time ago. And if he doesn't want to be in the press, he needs to stop doing things that get him in the press.  The email thing was presented in the media as was the part about Dennis sending him a C&D. He still continued to send emails and then did the thing at Brynn's school. If you don't want people thinking you are a loon, stop acting like a loon. It sounds to me like his behavior is escalating.

 

5 hours ago, glowbug said:

How do you know she hasn't stopped trying to alienate him? Parents can still attempt to alienate another parent after a custody agreement has been reached. I still maintain that Bethenny's claim that he's a fame whore isn't matching his behavior. 

This is pretty much why I have such an issue with this mess and some of it is speculation on my part but I absolutely see Bethenny attempting to alienate Jason from his daughter's life. The book, the mentions during episodes, reunions and interviews. Calling the boyfriend's daughter in the middle of a television show. She does not seem like a woman who is concerned with the repercussions her outpourings might have on a child but she does seem to regard everything as a zero sum game. She is only comfortable being the victim or the victor in this. 

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Provoking is different than deserving.  A person can provoke someone with words, hand gestures or facial expressions.  In my world it is never an excuse for physical violence.  If someone referenced another as a thief on national TV, I would not find it harassing or annoying or stalking to put them on blast via e-mail or in person tell them their behavior will not be tolerated.  Someone on a bullhorn calling another a "stupid ho" is not an excuse to pummel another and drag her around by her hair because she felt provoked.  Nor did the victim of the assault deserve it. 

Jason has not been tried or convicted so it would seem premature to label him a criminal.

Not all cases are created equal if a person has a platform to regularly defame another that person by virtue of their power is in a superior position so their provocation can be seen as having an advantage.  Arriving to a mutual destination with supporters may be deemed as provoking.  Similarly a person who regularly publicly berates others with slurs and derogatory language may not be held to same standard of vulnerability as others when it comes to determining if they have suffered some form of emotional stress.  All for the finders of fact to decide-either a jury or the bench. 

I don't know if Jason's defense counsel plans on using implied threats of parental alienation as a defense.  If there are 12 diverse jurors justice may not be as swift as one might predict. 

Since this is all about speculation I am wondering how many of these e-mails and the rub between these two are over the twice a day phone calls the non-custodial parent is entitled to by court order.  Sometimes divorced parents are just not able to set aside their differences to make such a situation work.  No blame just a reality check.

This. I hope for Bryn's sake Bethenny isn't quite as toxic as I believe and Jason isn't a weirdo stalker. Court is a horrible way to spend one's time but with a family issue it's beyond brutal.

[film noire]

7 hours ago, QuinnM said:

This is abuse.  He is the abuser.  She is the victim.  I will not listen to someone talking about how 'she deserved it'.  I don't care if it is Bethenny Frankel or Jane Doe.  The behavior is illegal.  It is illegal for a reason. 

And in both cases it is illegal and he is a criminal.  That is what the court will decide.  The law is not it is ok if he is a desperate man trying to stop her from negatively impacting his relationship with his daughter.

There is no excuse.

I don't think the point being made (overtly or otherwise) endorsed the idea that Frankel deserved abuse. What was being pointed out is the difference in danger levels if Hoppy is a sociopath vs enmeshed in a sick, co-dependent relationship with his ex. Both are horrible for Brynn, but the first would be far more dangerous.

Whether Hoppy is a vicious stalker or another instance of Bethenny roadkill, he's appeared restrained compared to her gob-mouthing (and sociopaths and stalkers can often appear to be the saner party at first, so there might be revelations around that coming). Whatever the truth about Hoppy, I know Frankel had 'zero fucks' to give regarding what her child will be reading about her father, in just a few years time, and felt no hesitation putting her daughter in a situation where she will likely feel uneasy about the man who is one half her emotional and genetic DNA.  And that's as toxic as it gets.  

Edited May 2, 2017 by film noire

[tabbybear]

Just a quick question.  I have had a lot of tragic things going on over the past couple of years so haven't been keeping up.  I keep seeing posts about Bethenny bad mouthing Jason publicly.  Could someone please point me to the interviews, articles or quotes where she has done this.  I am a huge RH fan and also followed her spin off with Jason.  I always felt that they both could use some work with a good therapist.  From what I saw she likes to be in control and is very anxious if she feels she's not.  She also seems to be a workaholic, and does not have a healthy background from which to draw.  He seems manipulative and demeaning towards her.  He also seems to be ( understandably, to an extent) an unyielding mama and papa's boy.  Like most parents they both could benefit, and especially Bryn would benefit from good parenting classes.

[zoeysmom]

16 minutes ago, tabbybear said:

Just a quick question.  I have had a lot of tragic things going on over the past couple of years so haven't been keeping up.  I keep seeing posts about Bethenny bad mouthing Jason publicly.  Could someone please point me to the interviews, articles or quotes where she has done this.  I am a huge RH fan and also followed her spin off with Jason.  I always felt that they both could use some work with a good therapist.  From what I saw she likes to be in control and is very anxious if she feels she's not.  She also seems to be a workaholic, and does not have a healthy background from which to draw.  He seems manipulative and demeaning towards her.  He also seems to be ( understandably, to an extent) an unyielding mama and papa's boy.  Like most parents they both could benefit, and especially Bryn would benefit from good parenting classes.

Some of the best sources are the show-she talks about her brutal divorce, Jason stealing from her.  There was a custody trial where Bethenny testified to Jason and his family, among other horrific things, not flushing the toilet.   Here is one story:  http://people.com/crime/bethenny-frankel-living-with-jason-hoppy-was-brutal-horrendous-excruciating/  I never understand when one is accused privately of something (they claim they didn't do) why they make the accusation public.

Not that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are at the same level of vitriol but here is a Brad Pitt story about custody and divorce-I thought the way he described the potential for a court ruling on custody was interesting in that what one party has to do to the other:   http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/brad-pitt-speaks-out-for-first-time-on-angelina-jolie-divorce-our-familys-been-ripped-apart/ar-BBAGUlG?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

[Otherkate]

43 minutes ago, tabbybear said:

Just a quick question.  I have had a lot of tragic things going on over the past couple of years so haven't been keeping up.  I keep seeing posts about Bethenny bad mouthing Jason publicly.  Could someone please point me to the interviews, articles or quotes where she has done this.  I am a huge RH fan and also followed her spin off with Jason.  I always felt that they both could use some work with a good therapist.  From what I saw she likes to be in control and is very anxious if she feels she's not.  She also seems to be a workaholic, and does not have a healthy background from which to draw.  He seems manipulative and demeaning towards her.  He also seems to be ( understandably, to an extent) an unyielding mama and papa's boy.  Like most parents they both could benefit, and especially Bryn would benefit from good parenting classes.

I had the same question. I personally wouldn't count court testimony because that's your time to tell your side of the story (regardless of our personal opinions on whether or not it's true) and her comments on the show, in my opinion, have been vague at best. Not many people dealing with a divorce would not call it brutal at one time or another. My divorce was very amicable but it was, in no uncertain terms, also one of the most freaking brutal things I've ever dealt with. 

[Mrs peel]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 8:09 AM, Otherkate said:

I had the same question. I personally wouldn't count court testimony because that's your time to tell your side of the story (regardless of our personal opinions on whether or not it's true) and her comments on the show, in my opinion, have been vague at best. Not many people dealing with a divorce would not call it brutal at one time or another. My divorce was very amicable but it was, in no uncertain terms, also one of the most freaking brutal things I've ever dealt with. 

I include that court testimony because it seemed very calculated - she was able to get in all the digs and complaints she wanted in the way she wanted, then suddenly before the cross-exam she settled the custody matter. 

[LIMOM]

On 5/3/2017 at 8:46 AM, zoeysmom said:

Some of the best sources are the show-she talks about her brutal divorce, Jason stealing from her.  There was a custody trial where Bethenny testified to Jason and his family, among other horrific things, not flushing the toilet.   Here is one story:  http://people.com/crime/bethenny-frankel-living-with-jason-hoppy-was-brutal-horrendous-excruciating/  I never understand when one is accused privately of something (they claim they didn't do) why they make the accusation public.

Not that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are at the same level of vitriol but here is a Brad Pitt story about custody and divorce-I thought the way he described the potential for a court ruling on custody was interesting in that what one party has to do to the other:   http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/brad-pitt-speaks-out-for-first-time-on-angelina-jolie-divorce-our-familys-been-ripped-apart/ar-BBAGUlG?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Honestly, Beth's lawyers have some blame in the way she handled her divorce.

Yes, she is a bitch but I can assure you  that in NY, lawyers are very aggressive with her type of clients.

AFter all, the more she engage in bullshit, the more billable hours.

Same with her ex, although I admire him for keeping mum.

Hopefully, she grew and realized that she does not need/want a husband and is able to mother in a kind way(I have my reservation but time will tell).

[Mrs peel]

6 hours ago, LIMOM said:

Honestly, Beth's lawyers have some blame in the way she handled her divorce.

Yes, she is a bitch but I can assure you  that in NY, lawyers are very aggressive with her type of clients.

AFter all, the more she engage in bullshit, the more billable hours.

Same with her ex, although I admire him for keeping mum.

Hopefully, she grew and realized that she does not need/want a husband and is able to mother in a kind way(I have my reservation but time will tell).

B claims to be such a great businesswoman and so bright, I don't blame the lawyers.  She seemed to want them to go after Jason, they did.  Were they aggressive, sure, she had money she was willing to burn.  Few lawyers will turn that down.

[LIMOM]

2 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

B claims to be such a great businesswoman and so bright, I don't blame the lawyers.  She seemed to want them to go after Jason, they did.  Were they aggressive, sure, she had money she was willing to burn.  Few lawyers will turn that down.

Which is why lawyers have the reputation that they have.

BAh, she got the divorce that she could afford and that she deserved, imo.

[breezy424]

I don't fault her lawyers.  Beth is who she is.  And if she feels she's 'right', she's not going to listen to anybody.  She got on the stand at the custody hearing and gave the most lame excuses as to why she deserved full custody.  And then after she got that off her chest she accepted what was going to be the outcome all the time.  I don't think her lawyers came up with that idea.  That was totally Beth.

Just like Beth didn't want to settle with Jason over the apartment and other things.  Beth declares she won but the reality is that she really didn't gain anything by dragging it all out.  In the end, Jason 'may' have not gotten the apartment or anything else but he did get living in their apartment for how many years?  He did get something.  For Beth, it's always about 'winning'.  About being 'right'.  She looses in the process.  And we don't know what the settlement was in the end. 

IMO, she could have wrapped it up years ago and avoided her self proclaimed torture and hell.   But Beth is not like that.  She rather put herself through victimization.  That's her MO.  She's not practical.  She won't look at the money she wasted on lawyers and the cost of maintaining the apartment and whatever. 

She may be a good business person but when emotions comes into play...not so much.

[LIMOM]

Some of the motions were ridiculous, imo.

I can't recall all the details but frankly, someone had to say:"Lady, quit when you are ahead. And stop being an ass and waste the court's time".

[QuinnM]

Quote

I don't think any arrangement would please her, because, I suspect she is a malcontent.  They are never satisfied.  If it's not one thing, it's another.

I think that his behavior insures this.  That is exactly what he wants.  The worst is that all this nonsense of his puts their business in the gossip columns.  That might hurt Bethenny but it hurts Brynn too.  So he is announcing to the world that nothing, including his daughter, will get in the way of his revenge.

[LIMOM]

16 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

I think that his behavior insures this.  That is exactly what he wants.  The worst is that all this nonsense of his puts their business in the gossip columns.  That might hurt Bethenny but it hurts Brynn too.  So he is announcing to the world that nothing, including his daughter, will get in the way of his revenge.

He is a sadist. She is a professional victim. Match made in hell.

They are both hurting Brynn.

[ryebread]

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 0:11 AM, breezy424 said:

In the end, Jason 'may' have not gotten the apartment or anything else but he did get living in their apartment for how many years? 

And he'll be living in her head, rent free, forever.  Bethenny said as much in the Berks and she's letting him.  

She's smart in business, not so much in life. 

[KungFuBunny]

[ryebread]

7 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

They did/do have that when it became clear this would be a contentious divorce. There has been no direct contact on Bethenny's part. Which is why Jason is a dipshit. If this were about Brynn, he would have had his lawyers contact her lawyers or the Child Custody Coordinator.

We have no idea if Jason continued trying to be in contact with Beth because he believes that divorced parents SHOULD be in touch for the sake of the child.

We have no idea if Jason stayed in the apartment because he wasn't ready to bust up the family but Beth just wanted him out, out, out.

Okay, long shots, but everything else we are opining about are long shots.  We'll likely never know the truth. 

Did Jason really call Beth, Bernadette?  Did he really trash the apartment before he left?  Did he and his dad really walk around the house in their underwear?  All we have is Bethenny's word on these things, and imo, she will climb over anything and anybody to make her way to the top - whether it's in business or a divorce.  I saw shades of that way back when she was on Martha Stewart's apprentice.  That's why she was so disliked by almost everybody.

Soooo much prettier with short hair.

[QuinnM]

Listen I don't get the whole blackout.  It has been Ramona saying she had a blackout. 

[ryebread]

25 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

He is a sadist. She is a professional victim. Match made in hell.

They are both hurting Brynn.

I don't know if I can call him a sadist but I agree they are both hurting Brynn.

[LIMOM]

1 minute ago, ryebread said:

I don't know if I can call him a sadist but I agree they are both hurting Brynn.

He knows exactly how to hurt her. calling her Bernadette for example was sadistic, Imo.

He enjoys hurting her. I don't know if it is in response to her emasculating or what.

they both brings the worst in one another. A mess.

That kid will be exactly like Beth. Damaged, if she is not already.

9 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

No tears?

she annoys the shit out of me! Enough already.

[KungFuBunny]

6 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Listen I don't get the whole blackout.  It has been Ramona saying she had a blackout. 

It's the NY version of "I don't remember".

Next season when they film at Dorinda's they can name the episode The BlerkOutShires

[ryebread]

3 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

He knows exactly how to hurt her. calling her Bernadette for example was sadistic, Imo.

He enjoys hurting her. I don't know if it is in response to her emasculating or what.

they both brings the worst in one another. A mess.

That kid will be exactly like Beth. Damaged, if she is not already.

No tears?

she annoys the shit out of me! Enough already.

But we only have Carole's word (via Bethenny) that he called her Bernadette.   If he really did it, then, yeah, I agree he knew EXACTLY where to hit her.  On the other hand, though, if she doesn't see herself as Bernadette at all, why would it hurt her?  If he said it, I'd guess it bothers her so much because the truth hurts.

We'll never know the juicy deets unless Bryn writes a book someday.  I'd read it. 

Right after I get done with Suri Cruise's bio. ;-)

[LIMOM]

2 minutes ago, ryebread said:

But we only have Carole's word (via Bethenny) that he called her Bernadette.   If he really did it, then, yeah, I agree he knew EXACTLY where to hit her.  On the other hand, though, if she doesn't see herself as Bernadette at all, why would it hurt her?  If he said it, I'd guess it bothers her so much because the truth hurts.

We'll never know the juicy deets unless Bryn writes a book someday.  I'd read it. 

Right after I get done with Suri Cruise's bio. ;-)

And North

And Blue. ;-)

[zoeysmom]

2 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

He knows exactly how to hurt her. calling her Bernadette for example was sadistic, Imo.

He enjoys hurting her. I don't know if it is in response to her emasculating or what.

they both brings the worst in one another. A mess.

That kid will be exactly like Beth. Damaged, if she is not already.

No tears?

she annoys the shit out of me! Enough already.

I give both these clowns a pass when it comes to dealing with co-parenting.  Bernadette according to Bethenny some days, deprived her of a meaningful relationship with her father, and Jason did not experience being a child of divorce.  So they really weren't prepared to the give and take involved in co-parenting.  Having said that it has been five years-suck it up.

For someone who does not hesitate to call someone every name in the book on TV, announces she called her mother because Bryn wanted to speak to her after 15 years of not speaking to her, met up with a long ago step-father after 20 plus years, after describing how he physically abused her mother was a drug addict and gambler, deeply in debt on the run, I am thinking Bethenny should be able to shoulder being called Bernadette.  This is so petty.   Jason also called her old and aging, and not a good look.  Why can't Bethenny handle these comments?  She has made many comments about Ramona's face and looks this season.  She claims Jason "stole" her money.  She can dish out very publicly but melts when she gets a nasty text?  Ridiculous.

Since the nature of Jason's "threat" was he would not be intimidated no matter how many attorneys she hires, my guess is there has been an on going dialogue and a lot of quibbling.  I expect to be underwhelmed when it comes to the evidence portion of Jason's criminal case.  I personally, don't think Jason should hang out at the child's school when it is Bethenny's days of custody because it is just not necessary.   They should be able to co-exist if the kid has a recital or soccer game. 

Bethenny isn't a delicate flower, and it seems to me she has violated the gag order on several occasions when it comes to not talking about Jason.  I think they should have mutual restraining orders up to and including no public discussion of the other and the child should not be in the public eye whatsoever, including her room, toys and accounts of what she is up to.  These criminal charges against Jason are B Misdemeanors already offered to reduced to a single violation.  Jason is either a dumb ass and will prove it in court or he has some sort of defense. 

In any event I don't think at this point in her life Bryn should be denied  continued significant contact with her parents including joint custody.    No winner in one person losing custody.

[QuinnM]

Quote

I expect to be underwhelmed when it comes to the evidence portion of Jason's criminal case.  I personally, don't think Jason should hang out at the child's school when it is Bethenny's days of custody because it is just not necessary.   They should be able to co-exist if the kid has a recital or soccer game. 

According to the complaint it was Jason custody day but Brynn was in a recital.  And like you say custody agreements allow for both parents to attend the recital/game events.  But the RO now says that he cannot approach the school.  And I am sure that parents at the school don't want someone becoming agressive and vocal in front of their kids.  The original RO ruling was for 6 months.  So if he doesn't get his day in court by July then it will be extended into the school year again.

Here is what he is being very short sighted about.  If this ruling does not clear him he has given her the opening for supervised visitation.  That's a big thing.  It is also was judges actually ask the spouse to do.  And it doesn't matter who you are ... Brad Pitt.  If you have anger issues then you don't get to be alone with a child.

[ryebread]

27 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I think they should have mutual restraining orders up to and including no public discussion of the other and the child should not be in the public eye whatsoever, including her room, toys and accounts of what she is up to. 

If they do have a gag order, (and if they don't, then kadooz to Jason for not blabbing all over the www), I wonder if clips like that above ^ could be held against her?

[LIMOM]

22 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

According to the complaint it was Jason custody day but Brynn was in a recital.  And like you say custody agreements allow for both parents to attend the recital/game events.  But the RO now says that he cannot approach the school.  And I am sure that parents at the school don't want someone becoming agressive and vocal in front of their kids.  The original RO ruling was for 6 months.  So if he doesn't get his day in court by July then it will be extended into the school year again.

Here is what he is being very short sighted about.  If this ruling does not clear him he has given her the opening for supervised visitation.  That's a big thing.  It is also was judges actually ask the spouse to do.  And it doesn't matter who you are ... Brad Pitt.  If you have anger issues then you don't get to be alone with a child.

Hopefully, all that bullshit does not end up in an OJ or a murder suicide.

Pushing people around can result in horrific outcomes.

Edited June 2, 2017 by LIMOM

[SunnyBeBe]

Regardless of who is really the problem or ship stirrer in this relationship, they need to consider the impact on Bryn.  Back when I used to litigate a lot of child custody cases, there was a true story that one of the older judges would tell us (parents and attorneys) when he saw that they were not working together and often hated each other.  It was the story of the parents who fought so much that their little 4 year old daughter gnawed her hand.  The specialist worked with her, but determined that her parent's discord over her custody, pickups, exchanges, and life in general was so dysfunctional, that it caused her to gnaw her hand.  It was a touching story, but, I don't know if even something like that can cause resentful parents to do right.  If the hand is all gnawed up, then what must her heart look like? 

[LIMOM]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Regardless of who is really the problem or ship stirrer in this relationship, they need to consider the impact on Bryn.  Back when I used to litigate a lot of child custody cases, there was a true story that one of the older judges would tell us (parents and attorneys) when he saw that they were not working together and often hated each other.  It was the story of the parents who fought so much that their little 4 year old daughter gnawed her hand.  The specialist worked with her, but determined that her parent's discord over her custody, pickups, exchanges, and life in general was so dysfunctional, that it caused her to gnaw her hand.  It was a touching story, but, I don't know if even something like that can cause resentful parents to do right.  If the hand is all gnawed up, then what must her heart look like? 

Was she placed in Foster care?

someone I knew got murdered by her ex husband over a child support payment.

he blew his brain out after a police pursuit over state lines.

These type of custody stories scare the shit out of me. One never knows what one is capable after a while.