S11.E04: Three Shirts to the Wind

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, magicdog said:

I never said they were.  I just wondered why Frank is suddenly "triggererd" by the term.  He never was before, and I've barely seen any of the Frank we used to know.

And I didn’t say that you did-but this Nazis are also good people is a canard that’s out there now.

1 hour ago, friendperidot said:

I don't think anyone here said that anyone on here said Nazis are good people. It has been a statement sort of uttered by some very high up government official, it's a little altered from the original quote, but I won't go there. Frank is more triggered by Nazis because they are more active and out and proud. I am more triggered by Nazis for that reason. I was born a few years after WWII, and my father was deaf, so he did not serve in the military, but I had several uncles who did, during WWII. The Nazis have never gone away entirely, they kept to themselves and were hidden, but in the last 20 years or so have become more active and more out and proud. So many reasons and this is not a place to discuss all of the disaffected people of this country and exactly why there is so much division, anger and yes, probably hatred. There are other places for those discussions, it's all over FB all the time, it depends on your friends and what groups you follow and are involved in.

Exactly.

[mattie0808]

I very rarely catch episodes of the original show on the one channel that airs them (that I always forget), but the last two I remember seeing were a Christmas episode where the gang decides not to buy gifts for each other, they all lie and do, and hilarity ensues, and one where Frank is introducing Murphy to a new girlfriend he might be serious about. The major political themes have always been part of the show, yes, but they were never front and center for every single episode. There were entire episodes where the politics were limited to quick asides and throw-away jokes (in maybe the Frank's girlfriend episode, Phil names his food items on the menu after celebrities/politicians, but realizes it's a bad idea pretty quickly, because so many people hate some of folks with foods named after them -- "I can't get anyone to order an Orrin Hatch!"). There were just sitcom-y episodes that were enjoyable because the writing was funny, and it was in a unique setting with good characters. I'm curious as to whether the current continuation feels like they could or should do those types of episodes? Or, does the fact that the show was brought back almost entirely because of the 2016 election mean that they don't want to be a "normal" sitcom at all any more? I guess we'll see the rest of this first season. I do hope a little balance comes back into things here.

Edited October 19, 2018 by mattie0808

[ItCouldBeWorse]

With regard to Jim, I had the feeling that possibly due to age or health, he was somewhat limited in how much he was able to do.  I noticed that Murphy took a long time pulling out and holding onto Jim's chair while he sat down.  It might have been a sign of in-show respect, but it looked like he actually needed her to be there.  He's 82 and may be somewhat frail.

Edited October 22, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[iMonrey]

Quote

Yeah, I didn't get the sense that Murphy was surprised by her schedule, just that she thought it sucked (which, real talk: it does).

There's a big difference between knowing you'll be getting up that early and then actually having to do it day after day. I get the impression Murphy is a night owl by nature, considering her past, both socially and professionally. She also strikes me as someone who thinks she can do anything so maybe she didn't initially bat an eye at the idea of getting up that early until she actually started having to do it.

I had a job for nine years where I had to be there super early, and I'm not a morning person either. I eventually got used to it, but I never got to like it. I completely understand bitching about it.

[Bruinsfan]

53 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

With regard to Jim, I had the feeling that possibly due to age or health, he was somewhat limited in how much he was able to do.  I noticed that Murphy took a long time puling out and holding onto Jim's chair while he sat down.  It might have been a sign of in-show respect, but it looked like he actually needed her to be there.  He's 82 and may be somewhat frail.

Yeah, I'd have loved to see a more involved and extensive scene (or series of them) with Jim, but I was just glad Charles Kimbrough was able to walk onto the set under his own power. He was born the same year as my dad, who passed away earlier this year. They had me at Slugger as far as his guest appearance goes.

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

With regard to Jim, I had the feeling that possibly due to age or health, he was somewhat limited in how much he was able to do.  I noticed that Murphy took a long time puling out and holding onto Jim's chair while he sat down.  It might have been a sign of in-show respect, but it looked like he actually needed her to be there.  He's 82 and may be somewhat frail.

I suspect that all of Jim’s scenes were filmed at the same time and will be inserted into a few episodes. I can’t see  Charles traveling back and forth a few times a year.

[SoMuchTV]

7 hours ago, wendyg said:

Pause to admire David Costabile, who is an amazing character actor in everything I've seen him in.

OMG that was Gale from Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul? I totally didn't recognize him!

[Goldmoon]

I think I know why this show is falling flat. In the 70s and '80s, shows like Maude and Murphy Brown were *different.* Viewers were a bit surprised to find political commentary mixed in with their entertainment. Since the elections, Bill Maher, Trevor Noah, and the cast of SNL "comment" on current events constantly. There is no novelty here, therefore no need for it. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

12 minutes ago, Goldmoon said:

I think I know why this show is falling flat. In the 70s and '80s, shows like Maude and Murphy Brown were *different.* Viewers were a bit surprised to find political commentary mixed in with their entertainment. Since the elections, Bill Maher, Trevor Noah, and the cast of SNL "comment" on current events constantly. There is no novelty here, therefore no need for it. 

  Maybe that's the case. But there are people who enjoy it for what it is. It shouldn't be a bad thing. *shrug*

  If you want to watch the other shows, then they're there. But there's room for everyone.

Edited October 20, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray
holy cow is editing acting up tonight O_o

[Ria]

16 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

With regard to Jim, I had the feeling that possibly due to age or health, he was somewhat limited in how much he was able to do.  I noticed that Murphy took a long time puling out and holding onto Jim's chair while he sat down.  It might have been a sign of in-show respect, but it looked like he actually needed her to be there.  He's 82 and may be somewhat frail.

I’m surprised to find out he’s only 82. I was thinking he was much older. Health varies greatly after 80 and he may have some medical issues. Which is too bad. I would like to see more of him. There are actors in their 80s and even 90s (Betty White-96!) still working regularly. 

[TiredMe]

I decided to delete it off my DVR after this episode. It’s just not clicking for me and it’s a tad disappointing. So I’m out. Hope you all enjoy. 

[Angeleyes]

I’m willing to give this version of the show time to develop its footing. Will & Grace was super awkward for most of last season and their characters had zero growth due to the retcon. I think this show is already ahead of the game. I’ve enjoyed the episodes so far. The political stuff has been a bit heavy handed to gain attention and show relevancy, but I think in time they’ll find ways to dial it down and focus on the characters as well. They’ve all got to date someone eventually. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/20/2018 at 8:35 AM, Ria said:

I’m surprised to find out he’s only 82. I was thinking he was much older. Health varies greatly after 80 and he may have some medical issues. Which is too bad. I would like to see more of him. There are actors in their 80s and even 90s (Betty White-96!) still working regularly. 

Women often age better (and live longer) than men, but Betty White is an extreme example!

[Wanda]

Roseanne last season also used most episodes to hit topical issues like trump, health care, illegal immigrants, racism, opioid abuse, etc. Personally I found the acting clunkier on that show and it came across preachier than Murphy Brown. One reason is that MB seems to have segued into its reboot more naturally than Roseanne did. The topics are more organic to the type of show it used to be plus the actors fell into character immediately in my opinion.

[andromeda331]

I liked this episode. I loved Murphy and Shannon going off in the bar and loved everything Murphy said. It was great. I liked her agreeing not to do the interview while it was funny that everyone immediately reacted that like they were going to be out of a job afterwards. But also depressed by the crew and staffs reaction they'd probably be right.

Great seeing Jim.  I loved Daly's Cagney & Lacey comment. If the show lasts. I'd love to see Sharon Gless guest star like Daly did on an episode of Burn Notice.

I agree with others my favorite part is still the scenes between Murphy and Avery. They really are the best. They are really supportive of each other and come off so natural as mother and son. I did like his segment in the bar that ended in a brawl. 

[proserpina65]

That was funnier than last week.  I loved seeing Jim again.  And the diatribe in Phil's was the Murphy Brown I know and love.  So I might hang in a little longer, but it really has to improve.

[proserpina65]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 3:12 AM, friendperidot said:

When I last worked, I had to be at work at 8 AM, I knew that, I still bitched about it every morning when I got up and went. I am not a morning person, it's also part and parcel of working.

I always say that I love my job except for the having to be at work at 8 thing.

I would've like to have seen more of Jim, but he really made the episode for me.

[funky-rat]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 9:06 PM, AntiBeeSpray said:

  Maybe that's the case. But there are people who enjoy it for what it is. It shouldn't be a bad thing. *shrug*

  If you want to watch the other shows, then they're there. But there's room for everyone.

Exactly.  I'm enjoying it.  I don't look too deeply at it or in to it.  It's not going to be the same show - the characters are older, times have changed, etc.  I'm just enjoying having the characters around.  And it warmed my heart to see Jim, even just briefly.  His tangent on Bermuda Shorts was fun, and I loved his "Ha, ha, ha....NO!".  I would have loved for him to toss in "And GOODIE FOR ME!", but I'll take what I can get - we don't know how much longer we'll have Charles Kimbrough around.  This fangirl kept a framed article about Jim Dial on her desk during college.

Personally, I don't enjoy shows that are all-politics, all the time (Daily Show, Politically Incorrect, The Colbert Report, etc).  And while SNL always had some political bend to it, it's 3/4 of the humor on the show in the past 10+ years.  Like I mentioned in another thread, a comedian friend of mine said that political humor is lazy humor - especially in today's climate.  It's like that old episode of South Park, where it's an award show and the presenter walks out and says "Republicans are so stupid" (roaring laughter).  "I hate Republicans" (roaring applause).  "Republicans.  So stupid." (standing ovation).  And that's my issue with Daily Show, et al.  That's what the show is built on, and one-note humor gets old quickly, and writers see that because they're getting laughs, they don't need to go any further or be any more creative, or go to higher hanging fuit.  I'm all for skewing any and all politicians, but I prefer political humor that pokes at the institution of politics itself, and all players.  With today's climate, the balance is tipped more to one side, but the show has enough other stuff going for it that I don't mind it so much.  I agree with the poster upthread that Roseanne (and Last Man Standing - not a fan, but my husband likes it - I didn't like Home Improvement either) are far more preachy - LMS especially is just loaded with sound bytes and the same one-liners over and over and over......I don't care which side of the spectrum it's coming from, it's that same one-note humor.

[AntiBeeSpray]

2 hours ago, funky-rat said:

Exactly.  I'm enjoying it.  I don't look too deeply at it or in to it.  It's not going to be the same show - the characters are older, times have changed, etc.  I'm just enjoying having the characters around.  And it warmed my heart to see Jim, even just briefly.  His tangent on Bermuda Shorts was fun, and I loved his "Ha, ha, ha....NO!".  I would have loved for him to toss in "And GOODIE FOR ME!", but I'll take what I can get - we don't know how much longer we'll have Charles Kimbrough around.  This fangirl kept a framed article about Jim Dial on her desk during college.

Personally, I don't enjoy shows that are all-politics, all the time (Daily Show, Politically Incorrect, The Colbert Report, etc).  And while SNL always had some political bend to it, it's 3/4 of the humor on the show in the past 10+ years.  Like I mentioned in another thread, a comedian friend of mine said that political humor is lazy humor - especially in today's climate.  It's like that old episode of South Park, where it's an award show and the presenter walks out and says "Republicans are so stupid" (roaring laughter).  "I hate Republicans" (roaring applause).  "Republicans.  So stupid." (standing ovation).  And that's my issue with Daily Show, et al.  That's what the show is built on, and one-note humor gets old quickly, and writers see that because they're getting laughs, they don't need to go any further or be any more creative, or go to higher hanging fuit.  I'm all for skewing any and all politicians, but I prefer political humor that pokes at the institution of politics itself, and all players.  With today's climate, the balance is tipped more to one side, but the show has enough other stuff going for it that I don't mind it so much.  I agree with the poster upthread that Roseanne (and Last Man Standing - not a fan, but my husband likes it - I didn't like Home Improvement either) are far more preachy - LMS especially is just loaded with sound bytes and the same one-liners over and over and over......I don't care which side of the spectrum it's coming from, it's that same one-note humor.

Yep. But at least the bones of it are still there. That's something. Appreciating the fact that the actors are taking the time to play the characters again and are trying their best.

I don't either (but Stephen Colbert... that's my weak spot sometimes, he cracks me up). Same here to a point.  Exactly. Definitely (and I'm a fan of it, and now of the Conners). But at least the actors from that show as well are doing their best. It's something I can respect and it's what keeps me watching both shows. Can't stand Last Man Standing. It just feels off putting to me some how. And I'm a fan of Home Improvement. I have a soft spot for Tim and Al :p, along with Wilson Wilson.

[Mystery]

I liked Jim making the point that US media keeps thinking that they have to present all points of view, as if they all had the same validity. John Oliver made the point well on his show, where he had 3 climate change deniers and 97 scientists all on the same stage. The media presents a false equivalency when it gives equal time to lunatics. 

I did laugh more in this episode than I have before. Especially at Murphy extolling the praises of Australia's animals with pouches, much like Shannon's shirt. 

[rhys]

I thought I saw the entire episode but I apparently missed the Cagney& Lacy bit. Can someone enlighten me please? Thanks

[doodlebug]

27 minutes ago, rhys said:

I thought I saw the entire episode but I apparently missed the Cagney& Lacy bit. Can someone enlighten me please? Thanks

Phyllis spoke of her long career with the NYPD- in parking enforcement.

[andromeda331]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 2:40 PM, AntiBeeSpray said:

Yep. But at least the bones of it are still there. That's something. Appreciating the fact that the actors are taking the time to play the characters again and are trying their best.

I don't either (but Stephen Colbert... that's my weak spot sometimes, he cracks me up). Same here to a point.  Exactly. Definitely (and I'm a fan of it, and now of the Conners). But at least the actors from that show as well are doing their best. It's something I can respect and it's what keeps me watching both shows. Can't stand Last Man Standing. It just feels off putting to me some how. And I'm a fan of Home Improvement. I have a soft spot for Tim and Al :p, along with Wilson Wilson.

I gave Last Man Standing a try because I really loved Home Improvement. I didn't like it at all. It wasn't funny, I didn't like any of the characters. After a couple episodes I was done. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I gave Last Man Standing a try because I really loved Home Improvement. I didn't like it at all. It wasn't funny, I didn't like any of the characters. After a couple episodes I was done. 

Yea that's pretty much me as well. Gave it a bit of a chance and wasn't a fan of it.

[snarktini]

I wish I liked it better! I don't mind the "preaching" -- I was a fan of the original and am totally in their partisan choir. For me it's the style of the show, not the content, which feels too dated to be enjoyable. The applause sounds artificial, the writing and acting feel awkward, too many punchlines. I think the multi-cam / live audience sitcom style just doesn't work for me anymore. (Stopped watching the W&G reboot for similar reasons, and non-reboots like Big Bang Theory also bug.)

Maybe I'll check in again later this year. I'm glad there are people enjoying it though! Murphy is a good character, and I like the addition of Avery a lot.

Edited October 24, 2018 by snarktini

[iMonrey]

Quote

  Maybe that's the case. But there are people who enjoy it for what it is. It shouldn't be a bad thing. *shrug*

It's not a bad thing. Unfortunately there aren't enough of you if ratings are any measure. That said, it appears the network isn't too alarmed about the low numbers. Yet.

I think this show is uniquely suited to tackle politics an a way most sitcoms are not. I just think there's less of an appetite for it now than there was 20 years ago.

[Tanichka]

4 hours ago, snarktini said:

I wish I liked it better! I don't mind the "preaching" -- I was a fan of the original and am totally in their partisan choir. For me it's the style of the show, not the content, which feels too dated to be enjoyable. The applause sounds artificial, the writing and acting feel awkward

Yes.  I also feel that they are trying to jump on every current issue/band wagon.  Just trying too hard.  

[ChicagoCita]

This show is giving me life! Yes, the politics seem clunky at times, and there's still a lot of exposition (is that the word?) tying the old show together with this one, but I'm loving it. I love hearing my own brand of political snark come out of my television! I love laughing instead of being fearful about current events. I am so appalled and scared and angry about the state of world, and Murphy gives me a chance to laugh "with friends" about it.

And how did I not realize that "Shannon" was Bannon? Brain cramp.

[madfortv]

I'm enjoying the show too.  The opening scene between Murphy and Avery was realistic.  She was perfect in her frumpy PJs. 

[methodwriter85]

Yeah, Jake McDorman definitely took off weight. I still remember wanting to pause this scene in Limitless where he was wearing just boxer-briefs because he had some great tree trunk legs with thick thighs. You can really see the weight loss here with the jogging scene- his legs look significantly thinner.

[Gothish520]

On 10/24/2018 at 2:02 PM, snarktini said:

I wish I liked it better! I don't mind the "preaching" -- I was a fan of the original and am totally in their partisan choir. For me it's the style of the show, not the content, which feels too dated to be enjoyable. The applause sounds artificial, the writing and acting feel awkward, too many punchlines. I think the multi-cam / live audience sitcom style just doesn't work for me anymore. (Stopped watching the W&G reboot for similar reasons, and non-reboots like Big Bang Theory also bug.)

Maybe I'll check in again later this year. I'm glad there are people enjoying it though! Murphy is a good character, and I like the addition of Avery a lot.

I like both single and multi-cam sitcoms, but it can be a bit jarring watching a multi after watching a few singles. But if the writing is there and the actors are on point, it doesn't take me long to get back into the swing. A good, funny sitcom can make the audience laughter unnoticable.