Season 6 Discussion

[Raja]

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I thought that it's customary for the WIFE or her family to pay for the wedding. (Husband or his family pays for rehearsal dinner, groom's cake and groom's attendant's gifts.) So, with all her family's money, why aren't they covering the flowers, venue, etc.?  I must have missed it.  Oh, since none of her family is attending, what's the need to show off?  This couple is a perfect example of why I believe this couple and some others are set up by TLC just for the tv show.  No way they would have hooked up otherwise, imo. Do we even know for certain that these people are here under the guise they give and for the time period they give on the show?  It just has such a fakery vibe.  

 

That is the US custom, it is not universal. If The Learning Channel was actually doing a documentary you would see things  like the poor foreign family being the being responsible for payment. I know that men going the K-3, CR-1 and not the K-1 90 day route in the Philippines have to get over the fact they they are not paying because they are a "rich" foreigner but rather by the local custom the grooms family takes on the major expense.

[Empress1]

On 12/2/2018 at 10:28 PM, Chickabiddy said:

A cash bar?!?! Jesus wept. You are having a wedding with 25 guests and can’t even spring for their bar tab? Then just offer soft drinks and sweet tea, but please for the love of all that is holy, don’t expect your guests to pony up for refreshments. 

I wish the fuck I would. Only 25 people and they still have to come out of pocket for drinks? Tacky AF. My motto when it comes to weddings is "I don't care what people serve as long as I don't have to pay for it."

Eric is so clearly broke. I don't know what his whole backstory is, but he's not middle class or paycheck to paycheck - he's broke. It's not just about the bed set - it's his whole deal. He's living in his daughter's apartment. He "picks and chooses bills sometimes." He's broke. If Leida is really concerned with money, she needs to go home because Eric doesn't have any. The only time I liked Eric is when he told Leida that his children are not a burden.

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

I thought that it's customary for the WIFE or her family to pay for the wedding. (Husband or his family pays for rehearsal dinner, groom's cake and groom's attendant's gifts.) So, with all her family's money, why aren't they covering the flowers, venue, etc.? 

 

I feel like that goes out the window for a second wedding. (I also think it should go out the window for couples that are older when they marry for the first time, but I know that's up to the family.) My brother has a friend who was married once before when she was in her early 20s. Her parents paid for that. It didn't work out. She got engaged again when she was around 30 and her parents said straight up that they would not be paying this time around (the couple paid for it themselves). Also Leida's parents offered Eric money but he turned them down.

As someone who doesn't like cats, Larissa's line about Debbie had me rolling. It was the deadpan look that really sold it.

[Drogo]

13 hours ago, Honey said:

You cannot say that we don't see everything, then in the next breath say that she is the only one taking care of the baby.

Olga herself says "Mom takes care of baby." 

 

12 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

What unanswerable question? "Is this the right stuff?" Made sense to me since the prescription was in Russian and the box label was in Russian and Stephen doesn't speak Russian but Olga does...

The answerable answer of course being "I don't know, Steven!!" (the same answer given when her boyfriend arrived from the U.S. and asked when she thinks the baby's going to come out.)  These two kids are champions of communication.

Not a fan of beating a dead horse, and it's time for me to withdraw from the debate, so final thoughts: 

• I am in no way Team Steven (or Team Olga) but I cut them both slack because neither one has any idea what to do/expect right now and neither had a stable childhood.  I'll defend the perfectly normal feelings of insecurity/inadequacy Steven's having, however, he should be keeping them to himself or talking to a parent/friend/therapist.  Instead he's dumping them on Olga who has her own issues right now, and there's a language barrier that makes her responses to him seem unfeeling and cold.. which exacerbates his feelings.  Something I never thought I'd say: *These two could really use Pole's translator app.*
• Parenting is a wonderful thing to do with someone you know/love/respect.  The day you have a baby is not a good day to start living in the same country as your co-parent.  By the time the baby comes, you should both have your roles in the household, responsibilities that don't require a gold-star every time you do them.  You should be aware of each other's lives/habits/needs so you can help each other maintain as much sameness and therefore saneness as possible after baby arrives.  The feelings that most parents have are probably tenfold for these two since they don't even know each other, adding in one is in a country very different than their home surrounded by people they can't understand.  I think either of them on their own would be a great parent- and I think with some patience (and outside intervention- a counselor, priest, friend) they can learn to communicate their feelings before they reach these levels of frustration with each other. 
• I don't think Steven and Olga are in an abusive relationship- I think they're in a pressure cooker of new baby + living in a closet + language barrier + tension from summer fling + PPD + sleep deprivation + lack of nutrition (no one's going to convince me Steve-o's whipping up nutritious meals in that hovel) + sexual tension + homesickness + hormones and I'd be interested to see what they'd be like when this passes- because I do think there's some genuine affection there and these are two people who really truly want a happy family. 

Oh, and at least neither of them is Kalani.

[Stacee]

3 hours ago, Dance4Life said:

I think her mentality is that if Fernanda is 19 and hasn’t lived her life, yet.......then the rate for divorce goes way up.  She doesn’t want her son to divorce, get hurt, get taken to the cleaners....whatever.  If they have a kid...

is the kid going back to Mexico never to be seen, again???  These are valid concerns for a mother.

Indeed, and if she expressed that to her 32 year old son off camera and he still decides to marry then she needs to let it go. On camera she was acting like she threw her ball over the fence and and the neighbor refuses to give it back. 

[CSS.MD]

8 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Is next week the last episode of season 6?

I need to stock-up on some Cheetos. 🧡

[Stacee]

50 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Didn't Fernanda say that her mother could not attend the wedding due to no money for the trip?

I thought it was due to the strained relationship that the US and Mexico have right now.

 

1 hour ago, Lily247 said:

I guess the post partem newborn phase is different for everybody and expectations differ. When i brought my first newborn home, after an epesiotomy that left me barely able to walk or urinate for 3 weeks, my hubby spent most of thoae first few days playing video games and yelling at me to get up when the baby cried at night before deciding to sleep in the guest room. Also demanded repeatedly that i stop breastfeeding because it was keeping me from cleaning and cooking. He became more hands on during the toddler stage but honestly i would have preferred a Steven kind of attitude. And believe me, attitides like my husbands were are wayyyyyyy more common than you would think. 

Oh wow, I was not aware men act like that. Mine was the opposite; took week off work to help out. I never got attitude or demands that I appreciate him. He was very hands on from newborn on. He recognized we were in it together. Great guy. 

I miss him so much.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Stacee

[Elizzikra]

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I'm truly surprised with the folks who defend Steven.

I see him through a lens of past trauma. I think that is different than trying to defend him. I think a lot of his behavior is poor but I don't think it's because he's fundamentally an awful person. I think he is a kid with a lousy upbringing and no role models for good relationships who is in an incredibly difficult situation. I think he genuinely loves Richie. I think he cares for Olga but I don't think either of them knows the other well enough to truly be in love with the other. I think there is potential for a good outcome and I hope they all get the support and resources they need to get there.

Quote

it's time for me to withdraw from the debate

Me too.

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Oh, and at least neither of them is Kalani.

Agreed!

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Didn't Fernanda say that her mother could not attend the wedding due to no money for the trip?  Then, why not get a lower cost wedding gown, say $200. and use the rest to fly mother in for the wedding? 

It could be that she can't take time off from work; can't afford the hotel and food and everything else she would need beyond just airfare...

[Drogo]

18 minutes ago, Stacee said:

Indeed, and if she expressed that to her 32 year old son off camera and he still decides to marry then she needs to let it go. On camera she was acting like she threw her ball over the fence and and the neighbor refuses to give it back. 

SisterJon's reactions gave me the impression this wasn't the first time MomJon had been theatrical. 

 

12 minutes ago, CSS.MD said:

Is next week the last episode of season 6?

I need to stock-up on some Cheetos. 🧡

TLC doesn't release a full episode list maybe because they think they have some kind of fucking Emmy contender here. Makes it a nightmare for creating the episode threads, because life.

 

11 minutes ago, Stacee said:

Oh wow, I was not aware men act like that. Mine was the opposite; took week off work to help out. I never got attitude or demands that I appreciate him. He was very hands on from newborn on. He recognized we were in it together. Great guy. 

I miss him so much.

I'm sorry for your loss @Stacee.  I like to think there are a lot of men who pitch in like that without demands, but I know many don't.  I had a career that was ripe with men of a babymaking age, and I know there were all kinds. I mentioned in an earlier thread that my beloved was very proactive with her compliments (ex: "You swaddle her so much better than I do, can you show me how you do that?" "Look how happy he is when his Daddy feeds him") and bought our kids all these "I love Daddy" "Daddy's MVP/Princess" outfits that made me happy before I could get sad, because she is (quoting myself) a behavioral intervention mastermind.  You moms are the rockstars, so a compliment from you on our parenting is like hearing Jimi Hendrix say we play a mean guitar.

9 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

 

Quote

Didn't Fernanda say that her mother could not attend the wedding due to no money for the trip?  Then, why not get a lower cost wedding gown, say $200. and use the rest to fly mother in for the wedding? 

It could be that she can't take time off from work; can't afford the hotel and food and everything else she would need beyond just airfare...

More likely she can't get a visa to travel to the U.S. in time.  (You don't need a visa to go from U.S. to Mexico but you need one the other direction.)  A better idea would be a stateside civil ceremony and then a destination wedding in Mexico, but these knuckleheads don't really think or care. 

[doyouevengohere]

Mexican Barbie said her mother and her family could not get visas in time to attend her wedding.  I'm sure with the way things are now , it's a lot harder for people in Mexico to get travel visas to the US.

[renatae]

On 12/3/2018 at 2:38 AM, Kangatush said:

And shout out to my bro Asuelu for being comfortable enough with himself to go out in a sarong.  I'm surprised we didn't see Kalani berate him about it.

That amazed me as well. I'm not convinced that she didn't berate him and it just didn't make it on the air. After all, she swore she was going to "teach him how to behave in America."

[Elizzikra]

7 minutes ago, renatae said:

After all, she swore she was going to "teach him how to behave in America."

Who's going to teach her?

[Chickabiddy]

38 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I see him through a lens of past trauma. I think that is different than trying to defend him. I think a lot of his behavior is poor but I don't think it's because he's fundamentally an awful person. I think he is a kid with a lousy upbringing and no role models for good relationships who is in an incredibly difficult situation.

Ok. I appreciate Sephen’s past trauma and lousy upbringing with no role models...well except Gran and Gramps, who seem pretty decent and seem to care..right?

But Olga has had her own lousy upbringing. Hello, Russian orphanage,anybody? Where are Olga’s  role models? Where are her grandparents to take her to the hospital/airport?

You have two people with traumatic backgrounds. And you just have to look at how Olga and Stephen have managed their personal lives, and how they treat each other to see who is fundamentally a better person.

Olga is getting an education, Olga is bilingual, Olga is not couch surfing or mooching off friends, Olga packed up for an adventure to the US and held down a job. Olga has handled Steven’s petulance stoically, and still manages to be kinder back.

Lots of people have trauma and tragedy in life. The difference in how they handle it comes to quality of character. Olga has it, and Steven just doesn’t.

[Mothra]

14 hours ago, lucy711 said:

This is a good point.  I'm not ready to call Steven an abuser. I think the big problem here is that they didn't have a real, solid relationship before the baby was born.  They were together for 2 months, so Steven is remembering how they used to be together all the time and Olga lavished all of her attention on him.  That's suddenly different.  Sure, it is obvious that the baby needs to come first, but he is 20 and an immature 20.  When I was 20, I was dating my boyfriend who is now my husband.  I would pick silly fights with him such as "why do you spend so much time playing basketball instead of being with me?"  They were stupid fights, and as we matured, I no longer acted like it.  As we both grew into our relationship and became secure with one another, I didn't feel like I needed his attention constantly.  We would have been poorly equipped to deal with a baby at 20, and that is why we waited until 31 to become parents.  The problem is that Steven and Olga went from casual summer fling to parents in the blink of an eye.  They don't have a solid relationship to begin with, and boom!  now there is a baby.

Steven is acting terribly.  But I'm going to be honest and say that I don't know how well I would have acted in a situation like his. I'm going to also say that I never knew how exhausting pregnancy and breastfeeding was until I went through it. 

I am certainly on board with the notion that Steven's behavior stems directly from the way he was treated as a child, and later.  Someone upthread posted, "Steven was never anyone's priority," which is so heart-breaking and so true.  Steven's acting as he does, even the very worst of the way he talks to and treats Olga, is certainly understandable and worthy of our compassion.

Explanation and excuse are two different things, however.  Much as we may sympathize with Steven's psychological damage and however sorry we feel for him--even as much as we understand why he might be verbally and emotionally abusive to Olga--he can't be allowed to act this way.  AFAIK, no one here has questioned how badly and deeply he was damaged, or suggested that it's his fault that he's being such an asshole.  BUT:  there simply is no excuse for treating Olga as he does.

It's not Steven's fault, but it's not Olga's fault, either, and she is being made to bear the consequences of the abuse her partner suffered as a child.  Men and women both often find themselves in this position, especially soon after marriage, when one truly gets to know the other person.  Normally, there are resources--family members, friends, clergy, professionals, whatever--available to both partners, which is not the case here.  And that's what, imo, makes this such a dangerous situation for Olga and Richie.

An older person, more mature than Steven, would certainly be able to wait out this period of their lives, to wait until Olga is recovered from birth and surgery, to find a place in the baby's daily care where he can be important and helpful, to take joy in this new life he helped create.  Olga might well ask of him, "what happened to the loving expectant father you were only a few weeks ago?" when he asks her what happened to the sexpot he met at the beach.  And if Olga were more mature (and less exhausted) she might understand that an occasional handjob would make her life a lot easier right now.

Steven's psychological issues aside, though, there remains the fact that these two were probably never in love with each other.  They had a great summer, fucking away, and Steven wants to return to that "best time" of his life.  The only way the two of them could return to a time when they were genuinely hot for each other, at this point, would be if they *had* been in love.  A woman in love *would* be overjoyed to see her partner every day, even if she was exhausted and physically suffering; a man in love *would* be concerned for his partner's well-being and comfort before even thinking of accusing her (essentially) of withholding sex.*  Steven, as many young men do--and some women, too, but not many after giving birth via Caesarian--confuses sex with love.  He never had love with Olga.

*I think herein lies the difference in what Drogo described as the feelings of most men and what Steven is doing.  They may well feel exactly as Steven does, but if they love their partner, they will not speak it aloud, much less rant on and on about it.

[Morgalisa]

21 hours ago, Mr. Minor said:

That, and I don't think he could get far enough away from his embarrassing and alcoholic mother.

Does anybody remember their names or the season. I'm trying to go back and watch the ones I missed. 

[Drogo]

Just now, Morgalisa said:

Does anybody remember their names or the season. I'm trying to go back and watch the ones I missed. 

Kyle and Noon.   (I think he was the best American to ever be on the show, and he lived in a house full of cockroaches and old pizza boxes.)

[iwasish]

38 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

Ok. I appreciate Sephen’s past trauma and lousy upbringing with no role models...well except Gran and Gramps, who seem pretty decent and seem to care..right?

But Olga has had her own lousy upbringing. Hello, Russian orphanage,anybody? Where are Olga’s  role models? Where are her grandparents to take her to the hospital/airport?

You have two people with traumatic backgrounds. And you just have to look at how Olga and Stephen have managed their personal lives, and how they treat each other to see who is fundamentally a better person.

Olga is getting an education, Olga is bilingual, Olga is not couch surfing or mooching off friends, Olga packed up for an adventure to the US and held down a job. Olga has handled Steven’s petulance stoically, and still manages to be kinder back.

Lots of people have trauma and tragedy in life. The difference in how they handle it comes to quality of character. Olga has it, and Steven just doesn’t.

Steven’s role as dad right now is to ask Olga “what can I do for you?” “ do you need anything?” And then do what she asks, get what she needs.

I think he’s a person that just has no empathy for others. 

[Lady Iris]

20 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Lol .. I noticed that also.  Even if production doesn’t pay for the frills, you would think they would try to look their best, hygienic wise and clothing wise.  Soap, water, clothes and makeup doesn’t require much.  Add a curling iron.  And, how about some teeth while they are at it.

Ya but, then we wouldn't have our "bith phtew".

[brillia79]

1 hour ago, Chickabiddy said:

Lots of people have trauma and tragedy in life. The difference in how they handle it comes to quality of character. Olga has it, and Steven just doesn’t.

Yes!

And at no time is it ok for Olga and the baby to be Steven’s emotional punching bag as he works through his trauma - not that we’re even seeing any indications that he is dealing with it in healthy ways. He needs a therapist, not a newborn.

[Lillith]

I certainly don't think Steven is this evil monster, he's a screwed up, not very bright kid with anger issues and a crappy family life. I feel sorry for him but sorrier for Olga. If even half the stories I've heard were true, Russian orphanages are no joke. 

Fathers don't deserve to be disregarded, however in the early stages of a babies life, especially after the mom is recovering from a C-section (I've had one, they're not fun) it's not all about him. He's also showing textbook red flag signs of being abusive, even if he ultimately doesn't it's still troubling.

The other red flag abuser is Kalani. As has been pointed out, Asuelu is also trapped in a way. That whole family is awful, Asuelu seems like a gentle person, also not terribly bright, and overwhelmed by it all. The way they beat him down and are so contemptuous of him is awful. 

Leida and Eric both suck. I like Fernanda even though she's clearly hot tempered and immature, she seems reasonably intelligent so I have hopes for her growing up as a person. Jonathan clearly will not. 

Cole is another creep.  I don't love Larissa but the way they carrot/stick that woman is obnoxious. 

[Empress1]

26 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

Yes!

And at no time is it ok for Olga and the baby to be Steven’s emotional punching bag as he works through his trauma - not that we’re even seeing any indications that he is dealing with it in healthy ways. He needs a therapist, not a newborn.

Yeah, I've said before that he doesn't want to repeat the patterns that he grew up with but he's not self-aware enough to recognize that HE is doing that with the way he speaks to Olga. He's so adamant that she not treat him the way other people have, but he doesn't recognize that he is treating her badly. I loved when she asked him why it was up to HER to ensure that they not fight, because it's both of them. Right now he's basically saying "Do whatever I say or you're mistreating me and creating unhealthy relationship patterns," but he doesn't see that HE is creating those patterns. He does need therapy.

[Kiss my mutt]

7 hours ago, Honey said:

When Steven said "Okay Olga, we need to talk", my butt puckered so tight I could have created a diamond, because he doesn't talk with her, he talks at her.

I wish she had a breast pump, so she could get some sleep.

 

Bottom line...It's not Olga's responsibility to fix what's broken inside Steven.

Exactly, nor is it the baby’s!

[Dance4Life]

3 hours ago, Drogo said:

SisterJon's reactions gave me the impression this wasn't the first time MomJon had been theatrical. 

 

TLC doesn't release a full episode list maybe because they think they have some kind of fucking Emmy contender here. Makes it a nightmare for creating the episode threads, because life.

 

I'm sorry for your loss @Stacee.  I like to think there are a lot of men who pitch in like that without demands, but I know many don't.  I had a career that was ripe with men of a babymaking age, and I know there were all kinds. I mentioned in an earlier thread that my beloved was very proactive with her compliments (ex: "You swaddle her so much better than I do, can you show me how you do that?" "Look how happy he is when his Daddy feeds him") and bought our kids all these "I love Daddy" "Daddy's MVP/Princess" outfits that made me happy before I could get sad, because she is (quoting myself) a behavioral intervention mastermind.  You moms are the rockstars, so a compliment from you on our parenting is like hearing Jimi Hendrix say we play a mean guitar.

More likely she can't get a visa to travel to the U.S. in time.  (You don't need a visa to go from U.S. to Mexico but you need one the other direction.)  A better idea would be a stateside civil ceremony and then a destination wedding in Mexico, but these knuckleheads don't really think or care. 

The American wedding is the important one.  They will have that one first since she is here on Fiancé visa.  Maybe she got her Visa super quick and the show’s filming, etc.

 

While the green card clock is ticking.......Next season (or next year) they can have a Mexican wedding.  She can wear her $1900 dress, again!  At that price it needs to be worn more than once. 😍

[Drogo]

Just now, Empress1 said:

he's not self-aware enough to recognize that HE is doing that with the way he speaks to Olga.

If Steven had a dad, he'd have learned you get more flies with honey.

[Dance4Life]

3 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Exactly, nor is it the baby’s!

Is Richie getting any milk?  She is breastfeeding like 24/7!  I thought breastfeeding was done every two hours for newborns.  Maybe she has a slow trickle. 

 

Omg!  A pump is a great idea.  But, then can you imagine?   They will be fighting how it works like they did with the car seat. 

[PinkFlamingo]

I apologize in advance for beating a dead horse but it took me 2 days to read this during limited free time and I am just now commenting. I understand that people get bad edits on this show and often only the bad side is shown. However if you don't want to be shown as an asshole on TV, don't be an asshole. I also understand how some can empathize with someone like Steven through shared experience but the behavior somewhat defines the person, immature or not. I knew someone that was a dead ringer for Steven, personality-wise. Both had: self described anger issues stemming from a rough upbringing with non-existent or bad role models as parents, rants about perceived slights toward them that they do not let go - well beyond when the conversation should have ended, making everything about themselves (you are not paying attention to me, me, me), blaming others for things that caused their anger, the need to be appreciated or praised for things, respect for authority issues (I don't like to be told what to do), limited education, underemployment, that same angry face, I could go on. And on and on. 

Some of this could be due to immaturity, but the guy I knew was twice Stevens age. Maybe Steven could grow up and change, maybe not.  I don't remember being a complete self-absorbed ranting asshole at any age.  I don't believe anger issues easily go away on their own, I believe anger or mental issues, whatever the cause, need to be treated. Guys like that often do not seek treatment even when they know they have an anger issue. They often blame others for their problems and the way they react and do not really believe they have a problem (everyone is against me, no one understands me). Even if Steven never gets physical, the unchecked anger problem I would wish on no one. She'll be walking on glass and apologizing for things she didn't do just to make him SHUT UP. 

For someone that has dealt with people like Steven before (more than one) I see ALL the warning signs. These things are bad enough to deal with without it turning to physical abuse. Watching Steven display this same behavior on TV make me want to come through the TV and strangle him. 

[sconstant]

2 hours ago, Mothra said:

*I think herein lies the difference in what Drogo described as the feelings of most men and what Steven is doing.  They may well feel exactly as Steven does, but if they love their partner, they will not speak it aloud, much less rant on and on about it.

Another key difference is that (one assumes) Drogo and partner did not have a film crew saying "Ok, we'd like to shoot some today.  Can you guys talk about how the relationship, outside of baby stuff, is going right now?"  And maybe Drogo would have been smart enough to say "it's going great because holy moly, she's is KILLING this mother thing" and Drogo's partner (as she did) would say "Here are N things Drogo is doing AWESOME right now."  But Steven is a kid in a foreign country where three people will talk to him, two of them are a producer and cameraman who need tape, and he is tired and overwhelmed.

[CoachWristletJen]

Kalani has the dumbest expressions on her face sometimes. She is one dim bulb.

She's also a mouth breather.

Seriously, I'm starting to think that Asuelu is the smarter of the two!

[Captions welcome.]

Edited December 4, 2018 by CoachWristletJen

[doyouevengohere]

I loved the look on her face when she was driving and her fingers were covered with cheeto dust.

[Elizzikra]

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You have two people with traumatic backgrounds. And you just have to look at how Olga and Stephen have managed their personal lives, and how they treat each other to see who is fundamentally a better person.

I totally disagree. I'm not ready to write Stephen off at age 20. Everyone enters life and moves through it with different skills, personality traits, and inherent strengths and weaknesses and resilience levels. Olga may have had more resilience. She may be more academically gifted. Sure they both came from traumatic backgrounds but you can't assume that they were somehow "equal" at conception, lived "equivalent" levels of trauma and now the only difference in outcomes is a matter of character. Or I guess you can assume that but I don't think it's accurate or fair.

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And at no time is it ok for Olga and the baby to be Steven’s emotional punching bag as he works through his trauma - not that we’re even seeing any indications that he is dealing with it in healthy ways. He needs a therapist, not a newborn.

It's definitely not ok and I've said many time that Stephen needs therapy and a whole bunch of other resources. If he's just an asshole, that would all be pointless.

Quote

 

Explanation and excuse are two different things, however.  Much as we may sympathize with Steven's psychological damage and however sorry we feel for him--even as much as we understand why he might be verbally and emotionally abusive to Olga--he can't be allowed to act this way.  AFAIK, no one here has questioned how badly and deeply he was damaged, or suggested that it's his fault that he's being such an asshole.  BUT:  there simply is no excuse for treating Olga as he does.

It's not Steven's fault, but it's not Olga's fault, either, and she is being made to bear the consequences of the abuse her partner suffered as a child.  

 

Agreed that explanation and excuse are different things but I think that every time someone calls Stephen a dick or an asshole, it disregards his trauma history. He's not a jerk for the sake of being a jerk - I think he just simply doesn't know better. He genuinely doesn't know (I don't think) that the c-section was way more painful than a vaginal delivery would have been. He doesn't know that a baby can't wait to eat. He doesn't know how exhausting it is to breastfeed. And he's absolutely right that a couple has to nurture their own relationship to be good co-parents but he has absolutely no idea how that should look when said co-parents have a newborn and just need to be in survival mode - so he's going about it all wrong with Olga.

You see sometimes in child welfare cases, parents who get angry with (and punish) a two year old for wetting her pants. Not because they are jerks or assholes but because they really believe that a two year old should be fully potty trained. An emotionally healthy parent, with a good understanding of child development wouldn't get angry with or punish that child.

Here though - Stephen is that two year old and many people seem ready - eager even - to be angry with and punish him. We are expecting (because Olga and that baby deserve) reasonable adult emotional regulation and behavior from him. But emotionally, he's only a couple years older than his son. He doesn't have adult capabilities but I believe he's capable of developing them. Somehow Olga appears to have addressed her past and is more emotionally mature than Stephen. That's great. But that doesn't mean that everyone is capable of that. She isn't a better or more valuable person because she has moved past her childhood faster or more effectively than Stephen has. Past trauma is not a character flaw and there is no evidence at all that Stephen has ever received any sort of help. So it pushes my buttons when people write him off as a dick for his bad behavior or seem to expect him to magically know how to be a good father and partner with no education, support or exposure to those behaviors.

Quote

Watching Steven display this same behavior on TV make me want to come through the TV and strangle him. 

It makes me want to come through the TV and link him up with a good case manager and a bunch of therapeutic supports.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Elizzikra

[Drogo]

13 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

Kalani has the dumbest expressions on her face sometimes. She is one dim bulb.

She's also a mouth breather.

Seriously, I'm starting to think that Asuelu is the smarter of the two!

[Captions welcome.]

 

I think Kalani's derpy expression is the result of her brain being overloaded with constant mental acrobatics of

"What thing can I say/do right now to make me as sympathetic as possible?" 

 

13 minutes ago, sconstant said:

Another key difference is that (one assumes) Drogo and partner did not have a film crew saying "Ok, we'd like to shoot some today.  Can you guys talk about how the relationship, outside of baby stuff, is going right now?"  And maybe Drogo would have been smart enough to say "it's going great because holy moly, she's is KILLING this mother thing" and Drogo's partner (as she did) would say "Here are N things Drogo is doing AWESOME right now."  But Steven is a kid in a foreign country where three people will talk to him, two of them are a producer and cameraman who need tape, and he is tired and overwhelmed.

Andddd this is why we will never be invited to appear on reality TV. 

*RE: youth vs. immaturity: Mrs. Drogo (the Mother of Dragons) was a year older than Steven at the time of our daughter's birth.

10 minutes ago, doyouevengohere said:

I loved the look on her face when she was driving and her fingers were covered with cheeto dust.

I call that scene "My Screensaver."

[PinkFlamingo]

14 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

 

It makes me want to come through the TV and link him up with a good case manager and a bunch of therapeutic supports.

Since this cherry picked statement made me sound like an asshole, I was simply describing the emotion I got watching behavior I've seen before play out on TV. If people have not had to deal with someone behaving like Steven for any extended period of time they are lucky. 

If Steven gets help and improves himself, more power to him. As I said in my full post there is a chance this could happen. Nobody I knew that was like him ever fully admitted to a problem and sought help. But there is hope for everyone. Until he does seek help it is not fair to take out his trama on others so we agree about that. And it is not fun to watch on tv. 

[Spike]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:56 AM, SuzyQILoveYou said:

Well, for me, there is good news and bad news.

The bad news is that I pretty much hate everybody on this show now. Except for Olga. And I don't hate Ashley or Jay or Fernanda, but don't really like her love them enough to really root for them.

The good news is due to these horrible people, I can now get through a 2-hour episode in less than 10 minutes.

Stephen and Olga were the couple I was rooting for that, although so young, seemed to have it together. But once the baby came, it's like Steven snapped. I really wish we could bring Olga and Ritchie to the US and make Stephen stay in sad, desolate Russia.

I loathe everything about Kalani. I hate the way she talks, the way her voice turns everything into a question, her condescending snotty attitude, everything about her. so now I zip right through anything she is in because my blood pressure goes through the roof looking and listening to her.

Leida is a freaking monster. everything is me me me, now now now, want want want. She shows zero interest in her son, who is light years more mature than his idiot mom. if you were to randomly pull out two names of people on earth, I don't know you could get people more unsuited for each other than her and Eric. Why are they together? I do not get it.

That randomly pulling out names could also be said for Ashley and Jay, Larissa and Colton, Kalani and Asuelo, all of them really. Thank God for Larisa and Colton and Debbie, because they are the only comic relief in this very depressing season.

I noticed in each ITM Kalani made a face like someone farted.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Since this cherry picked statement made me sound like an asshole, I was simply describing the emotion I got watching behavior I've seen before play out on TV. If people have not had to deal with someone behaving like Steven for any extended period of time they are lucky. 

It wasn't my intent to make you (or anyone else) sound like an asshole and I'm sorry if I came off like that. 

Quote

Until he does seek help it is not fair to take out his trama on others so we agree about that. And it is not fun to watch on tv. 

I don't think he even knows that he is taking out his trauma on others which is why I have such a strong reaction to the name calling toward Stephen. And if he does, in Russia, somehow realize that he needs help, I'm not sure where he could get it. He doesn't speak the language. I'm guessing mental health resources in Russia aren't plentiful and/or readily available. I hope they figure something out.

Quote

If people have not had to deal with someone behaving like Steven for any extended period of time they are lucky. 

Agree.

[doyouevengohere]

49 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

Kalani has the dumbest expressions on her face sometimes. She is one dim bulb.

She's also a mouth breather.

Seriously, I'm starting to think that Asuelu is the smarter of the two!

[Captions welcome.]

I think Faulkner wrote  short story with two sister characters that are described as wearing expressions of "bovine interest" with mouths agape.  I have this in my distant memory from my college days.  It's like the sisters Colonic modeled their lives on this.

49 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

[Lusterleaf]

Olga needs to run from Steven. I feel like one of these days he is going to snap and something may happen to her, or the baby. Who gets jealous of a baby, seriously?

I didn't care for the dress that Fernanda picked. I felt she only picked it because it was more "mature" looking and she is trying to prove to Jonathan's mom that she isn't too young.

[Teriyaki Terror]

1 minute ago, Lusterleaf said:

Olga needs to run from Steven. I feel like one of these days he is going to snap and something may happen to her, or the baby. Who gets jealous of a baby, seriously?

I didn't care for the dress that Fernanda picked. I felt she only picked it because it was more "mature" looking and she is trying to prove to Jonathan's mom that she isn't too young.

The second dress (ball gown) was stunning. I wish she picked that one.

[PinkFlamingo]

5 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

It wasn't my intent to make you (or anyone else) sound like an asshole and I'm sorry if I came off like that. 

I don't think he even knows that he is taking out his trauma on others which is why I have such a strong reaction to the name calling toward Stephen. And if he does, in Russia, somehow realize that he needs help, I'm not sure where he could get it. He doesn't speak the language. I'm guessing mental health resources in Russia aren't plentiful and/or readily available. I hope they figure something out.

Agree.

It's ok, I know I sound like a jerk sometimes when discussing things on this show. I get triggered by certain things like seeing Steven's behavior. I kind of look at this forum as a sort of philosophical discussion because we are judging people and we have a lot of producer manipulated drama to go off of so we never really have the real story. It's almost like watching a fictional soap opera at times and we only know what we are shown. 

 It's for that reason I hope no one from the show ever reads this forum. 😀 But at the same time I'm sure that some show participants are jerks or idiots in reality too.

I agree that Steven would be better off getting help in America. If Olga comes to the U.S. and they stay together she could go with him.  

[AZChristian]

The bottom line is, we all view something and develop our opinions based on our own history.

I married at 17 and had my first child when I was 18.  I was a child of severe emotional and sexual abuse.  I knew NOTHING about caring for a baby, and I knew even less about developing a good relationship.  Talk about not having it modeled for you!!!

But I recognized early on that if I wanted to be a better person, I needed to make that decision . . . and I needed to emulate people who behaved the way I wanted to be.  Fortunately, the one person in my life who was a strong, better person than me was Mr. AZC.  It wasn't overnight, but he helped me to become the person I wanted to be instead of the person I was "brought up" to be by abusers.  

I try to cut Steven some slack, but even at the age of 20 (with TWO children at that point), I knew about flies, honey, and vinegar.  He HAS to have seen SOMEONE behaving correctly, and recognized that that person was more successful in family, job, etc., than he was . . . and he should be smart enough to emulate THAT behavior, rather than whining about "poor little me" to a woman who has just had her abdomen cut open because of his unwillingness to put off his "urges" until he had a condom.

[Drogo]

What my friend Derelict Cinnabon above is trying to tell us is that some of these comments have gone over the line.  We're here to discuss the show, not other posters.

Disagreement is welcome, but disagree without making it personal. 

[Honey]

6 hours ago, Lily247 said:

I guess the post partem newborn phase is different for everybody and expectations differ. When i brought my first newborn home, after an epesiotomy that left me barely able to walk or urinate for 3 weeks, my hubby spent most of thoae first few days playing video games and yelling at me to get up when the baby cried at night before deciding to sleep in the guest room. Also demanded repeatedly that i stop breastfeeding because it was keeping me from cleaning and cooking. He became more hands on during the toddler stage but honestly i would have preferred a Steven kind of attitude. And believe me, attitides like my husbands were are wayyyyyyy more common than you would think. 

I'm kinda surprised you stuck it out until the toddler stage.

[Mothra]

1 hour ago, sconstant said:

Another key difference is that (one assumes) Drogo and partner did not have a film crew saying "Ok, we'd like to shoot some today.  Can you guys talk about how the relationship, outside of baby stuff, is going right now?"  And maybe Drogo would have been smart enough to say "it's going great because holy moly, she's is KILLING this mother thing" and Drogo's partner (as she did) would say "Here are N things Drogo is doing AWESOME right now."  But Steven is a kid in a foreign country where three people will talk to him, two of them are a producer and cameraman who need tape, and he is tired and overwhelmed.

All true, but does any of that mean that Olga should be treated the way he's treating her?  Honest-to-god, I feel for Steven, and I suspect he's doing the best he can under what must be horrible circumstances, and I get that because of his background, he is bound--programmed--to react to the stress the way he is.  But none of these explanations and sympathy mitigates the fact that some of us feel Olga may be in physical danger, and that she is certainly already being abused verbally and emotionally.  It isn't necessary to paint Steven as evil to believe that he is potentially dangerous.  He can't help it.  It's how he was brought up--or not brought up.  But Olga and Richie didn't do that to him.  I'm sure Steven is suffering, and I feel really bad for him, and I don't hate him, but right now he is dangerous.  IMO.

[iwasish]

29 minutes ago, PinkFlamingo said:

It's ok, I know I sound like a jerk sometimes when discussing things on this show. I get triggered by certain things like seeing Steven's behavior. I kind of look at this forum as a sort of philosophical discussion because we are judging people and we have a lot of producer manipulated drama to go off of so we never really have the real story. It's almost like watching a fictional soap opera at times and we only know what we are shown. 

 It's for that reason I hope no one from the show ever reads this forum. 😀 But at the same time I'm sure that some show participants are jerks or idiots in reality too.

I agree that Steven would be better off getting help in America. If Olga comes to the U.S. and they stay together she could go with him.  

Oh, the show participants read it I’m sure. And then they try to damage control and blame the “haters”.

I don’t feel bad for what I post, I’m reacting to what I’m watching. If someone is acting a fool, that’s what I see. Frankly, I don’t understand how they don’t realize how badly they’re acting, and that tells me what I see is most likely an accurate representation of the person. 

[Mothra]

6 hours ago, Lily247 said:

I guess the post partem newborn phase is different for everybody and expectations differ. When i brought my first newborn home, after an epesiotomy that left me barely able to walk or urinate for 3 weeks, my hubby spent most of thoae first few days playing video games and yelling at me to get up when the baby cried at night before deciding to sleep in the guest room. Also demanded repeatedly that i stop breastfeeding because it was keeping me from cleaning and cooking. He became more hands on during the toddler stage but honestly i would have preferred a Steven kind of attitude. And believe me, attitides like my husbands were are wayyyyyyy more common than you would think. 

I guess a lot of us are thinking back on what life was like when we had newborns.  What saved my husband and me, I think, was the involvement of grandparents, who were only too happy to hold the baby any time he or she wasn't nursing, who actually kept our daughter, who had real sleep problems, in their room for the first week so we could get some rest.  It's a big difference when a baby wakes to be fed, you feed, then lie there waiting for the baby to go back to sleep, and having a hungry baby carried to your bed and then whisked away to be rocked for hours by grandpa!  Steven and Olga are lacking many benefits most of us enjoyed, and family support is at the top of my list.

I have probably called Steven an asshole, and I want to sort of retract that.  He is not an asshole, but he sure is playing one on TV.  He needs so much help, and there isn't enough time and certainly no resources for him to get it during his time in Russia, when it would make a difference to his and Olga's relationship.  If only poor orphan Olga had a granny--a babuska!

[gonecrackers]

Personally I didn’t like any of the dresses Fern tried - two, including the one she supposedly chose, were too much like nightgowns. The one she chose was too mature for her, & I agree her MIL’s attitude was an influence in her trying to look older.

The other dress had a nice skirt, more bridal & young, but showed way too much boobs. That’s the one I thought she would choose, though, to show off Jon’s purchase. 

But I wouldn’t be surprised if that was all just a scene & she shows up in a totally different dress at the actual wedding. 

[vintagesac69]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:07 AM, millennium said:

I'm not sure if I missed the relevant talking head ... but my impression was that he left not for economic reasons (because there was no guarantee of employment for him in Thailand -- probably the opposite) but because she was so unhappy.    

Actually, I think they left because Noon’s dad was very ill. His mom was an alcoholic and they were estranged for years, so there was nothing really keeping him here.

[Rdh1314]

1 minute ago, gonecrackers said:

Personally I didn’t like any of the dresses Fern tried - two, including the one she supposedly chose, were too much like nightgowns. The one she chose was too mature for her, & I agree her MIL’s attitude was an influence in her trying to look older.

The other dress had a nice skirt, more bridal & young, but showed way too much boobs. That’s the one I thought she would choose, though, to show off Jon’s purchase. 

But I wouldn’t be surprised if that was all just a scene & she shows up in a totally different dress at the actual wedding. 

Yup...the 2 ( including her choice) looked like white sheets from the front. You could be right, and she'll actually have a different dress for her wedding. 

[Elizzikra]

10 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Personally I didn’t like any of the dresses Fern tried - two, including the one she supposedly chose, were too much like nightgowns. The one she chose was too mature for her, & I agree her MIL’s attitude was an influence in her trying to look older.

The other dress had a nice skirt, more bridal & young, but showed way too much boobs. That’s the one I thought she would choose, though, to show off Jon’s purchase. 

But I wouldn’t be surprised if that was all just a scene & she shows up in a totally different dress at the actual wedding. 

I guess I’m in the minority because I liked all three and preferred the first and third. I was expecting something right, low cut and beadazzled so heavilynit could be seen from the moon withou a telescope. She’s a pretty girl and she will make a beautiful bride.

[Mothra]

4 hours ago, Chickabiddy said:

Lots of people have trauma and tragedy in life. The difference in how they handle it comes to quality of character. Olga has it, and Steven just doesn’t.

Looking for a new dead horse, but couldn't resist responding to this.  Wrote a response strongly disagreeing, decided what the hell, I don't need another warning. On topic:  Eric can go pound sand.

[gonecrackers]

IMHO, If someone is acting like an asshole on these shows, it’s okay for a poster to call it out if that’s how they feel. People do act like assholes for all different reasons, including childhood damage. Maybe that person will get it together, but in that moment or during that time, for whatever reason, the person is an asshole (& may or may not continue to be).

I guess I just see it as calling it as someone sees it- it is what it is, until it gets better (hopefully). 

Edited December 4, 2018 by gonecrackers
becz asshole is one word duh me

[LGGirl]

If Debbie really loved her son and was a good mother, she’d tell him to go find a place with Larissa, and she will figure out her life. 

Steven and Olga have no support.  It’s their biggest problem.  If they had decent parents around, offering help and guidance, I think things would be much better.

Fernanda looked lovely in the dresses.  

Asuelo may be young, but Kalani is no where ready to get married herself.   What does it matter what Kalini thinks about Asuelo?  The girl cannot think for herself. 

Eric and Leida deserve each other.