S01.E05: The Game Of Your Life

[HazelEyes4325]

8 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Eddie is such a douchebag. An unemployed, unfaithful alcoholic, but somehow his buds blame the wife trying to keep things afloat. When Katherine said to Gary that she knew they had their 'history'...do we know exactly what that's about? Just Gary blaming her for Eddie's problems and weaknesses?

 

That was an interesting line for two reasons.  First, who is "they"?  Eddie and Gary or Katherine and Gary?  I can see both being possible:  Gary is quick to put down Eddie at every turn.  Gary is also quick to blame Katherine for, well, everything.  But what is the history?  It could be that something happened earlier in Eddie and Katherine's relationship that caused trouble.  Or it could be there was "something" between Gary and Katherine, whether they may have dated before Eddie or Gary made a pass at her or something....

Whatever it is, it is far from the least interesting thing on this show...

5 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Rome's reaction to the possible pregnancy doesn't necessarily mean he's had a change of heart about kids, IMO.  Remember, he's been seriously depressed to the point of attempting suicide.  He quit his job in hopes that doing something more creative would help but it hasn't, yet.  He just started seeing a psychiatrist and taking meds, but there's no way he's feeling better yet.  Meanwhile, he's got Eddie telling him how much he loves his son, how he's the center of his life, how much happiness Theo gives him.  I can see him thinking, in the first moments, that maybe a child is what he needs to turn his life around; but I can also see him taking a step back from it now he knows Regina isn't pregnant and realistically assessing his own feelings and realizing that he is not Eddie and that having a child is just not high on his list of priorities.

He also just had a conversation with his father where his father told him that he wanted Rome and Regina to have kids so that they would have what he (and his wife) have.  Rome never saw his father's depression, but his mother confirmed it shortly thereafter.  Considering what Rome is currently going through, I can see how that--and the mistaken belief that Regina WAS pregnant--would at least temporarily put him in a different state of mind.

Please, please, please can we get more of Rome and Regina on this show??????

[doodlebug]

8 hours ago, topanga said:

True. Katherine did imply that she used to work less till Eddie’s band ‘imploded,’ and she had to step up to become the primary breadwinner. All so Eddie could stay home and diddle with his friend’s wife. BTW, do local bands really make that much money?

I can't speak for all of them, but I had a friend whose husband was lead singer in a popular local band about 20 years ago.  They played out at least 3 or 4 nights a week, produced their own CD's, sold tee shirts and stuff, and opened sometimes for bigger acts.  He made over $100,000 a year according to her and this was 'on the books' (a lot of musicians get paid under the table).  They had a manager and someone who handled the money, paid taxes, etc.  So, yes, a popular local band in a place like Boston where there are a lot of venues, could earn enough for the members to make a decent living

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah, I want to know more about Katherine. It is a hard turn though that she has now done to the family though, Eddie moving out and into Gary’s,  her I guess essentially becoming the primary care giver. At least that’s what it sounded like, when Eddie was assuring his son that they would face time every night. It made me think Katherine was now taking over the main role.

Not to mention she was packing Theo's lunch. Still, it seems a little brutal to tell the kid and then make him go to school with that news fresh in his mind. Wait until the weekend, for goodness sake.

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think it was pointed that the school actually did promote the belief that Chloe subscribed to, though. If they are teaching that sinning  leads to hell and that suicide is sinful, they can't really complain about Chloe, because she's actually acting exactly as they would want someone to act, i.e. pray for him. That's why Sophie was so upset. It looked like the school principal understood why Sophie was upset, and he went lightly on her by making an exception to the zero tolerance policy about violence. But at the same time, what can he do about Chloe, really? Tell her not to "show compassion" by praying for John, after what they taught her?

While all that's true, there's a big difference between that belief and posting to everyone that "he's burning in hell, pray for him." Is that really how they want her to act - spice up an article of faith with a dash of cruelty? Rub it in the face of a grieving daughter that her father is burning in hell? That is not what a kind, caring person does. Faith or not. It's what a mean girl does. That action isn't that dissimilar to the Westboro Baptist Church (just by degree). I'd like to think there are more lessons taught to the children than dogma.

[doodlebug]

15 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Not to mention she was packing Theo's lunch. Still, it seems a little brutal to tell the kid and then make him go to school with that news fresh in his mind. Wait until the weekend, for goodness sake.

While all that's true, there's a big difference between that belief and posting to everyone that "he's burning in hell, pray for him." Is that really how they want her to act - spice up an article of faith with a dash of cruelty? Rub it in the face of a grieving daughter that her father is burning in hell? That is not what a kind, caring person does. Faith or not. It's what a mean girl does. That action isn't that dissimilar to the Westboro Baptist Church (just by degree). I'd like to think there are more lessons taught to the children than dogma.

It is also not the current position of the Catholic Church  on suicide.  Yeah, 40 years ago, the priests would sometimes refuse to say Mass or Catholic cemeteries would refuse to bury suicides there.  But it has been a long, long time since then and there is a whole lot more understanding of mental illness and an emphasis on comforting survivors.

I’ve had the misfortune of knowing 4 different Catholic families that were affected by suicide. In every case, they had funeral Masses and the church was supportive and compassionate and repeatedly assured th that their loved one was so clearly suffering that they were not responsible for their actions. One woman whose sister had killed herself, reported it to the pastor when another parishioner told her nephew his mother was in hell. The priest personally apologized to the kid and set it straight.  He told them he also contacted the woman and told her she was wrong and made a point of discussing it in a sermon.

At the very least, on the show, the other girl should’ve been counseled, asked to remove the post and her parents notified. I would also expect she violated the school’s ant-bullying policy and face disciplinary action..  

[ramble]

Y’all are so much more understanding of this show than I am. I’m wobbling on the fence leaning heavily toward the delete side. I’m sticking it out a bit longer due to actors I like. As for characters... those are harder to like. I do not like Maggie, Eddie or Delilah and I’m iffy on Gary. Regina and Katherine haven’t been developed enough for me to know exactly, but they’re better than the previous group. I guess that leaves Rome. I like him. I’m not counting the kids because I don’t feel like they’re adding anything I enjoy. I have no interest in the Ashley assistant storyline. And I absolutely hate the idea of who’s the daddy becoming a thing. That will probably make me fall off the fence quicker than anything.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, ramble said:

I have no interest in the Ashley assistant storyline. 

Apparently we'll find out next week what was in the envelope Jon left for Delilah that Ashley hid. Hopefully her story will get more interesting. Gotta be better than who's your daddy, right? Right??

I was bothered by the doctor telling Rome right off the bat that he would be on antidepressants for life. That's not necessarily true. (From what I've read, a general rule is one-and-a-half times the length of time the depressive episode has been going on, or another article said at least a year.) If a patient has multiple relapses, then yes, they may need them indefinitely, but starting them does not automatically mean you'll never be able to stop. (Also, starting a medication that can have significant initial side effects – I'm assuming an SSRI/SNRI-type drug – without telling your wife is…not great. When I started on them I felt like I was drunk for a week and I couldn't drive. I was on them for 6 years and have been off them for 10.)

[This is the second show thread this week in which I'm discussing antidepressants. It's kind of...depressing.]

Also, I am still singing Rainbow Connection a day later.

[Constant Viewer]

20 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Also, I am still singing Rainbow Connection a day later.

Me too! I was surprised how much of the song I remembered.

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, Constant Viewer said:

Me too! I was surprised how much of the song I remembered.

I have a cover of it on my ipod (by Weezer and Hayley Williams), so I hear it once in a while.

[Marley]

This show sucks so bad. I gave it a shot but it’s just the worst. So cliche and I just don’t care about any of these characters. Series recording has been deleted.

[formerlyfreedom]

13 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

It seemed a little weird that Rome asked his dad if he ever felt down for a long time but didn't ask his mom. Like she couldn't be depressed. Secrets are coming out left and right but Gina still doesn't know about Rome's depression. I want Gina to be in a storyline that doesn't involve Delilah. I want to see them dealing with this as a couple. She is basically the last to know how will she react to that. 

 

13 hours ago, topanga said:

True. All we’ve seen Regina do is cook and be friends with Delilah. At this point, I know more about Maggi than I do Regina. She and Rome are the only solid couple on the show, but they’ve only had one real couple scene—when he talked to her about wanting to quit his job.

And it’s a common misconception that black women don’t—or shouldn’t—get depressed  It’s the Strong Black Woman syndrome. Rome even said, “she’s solid” to his therapist. But that doesn’t mean she can’t be depressed.

I'm half way in love with Rome and Regina. STAY STRONG, DON'T HAVE KIDS, YOU CRAZY KIDS!

I suspect that Rome went to his dad and asked (in an extremely roundabout way) about the depression issue because they are both male/men. He identifies more with Dad for this than Mom. I can understand why he didn't go to his mom.

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

I was bothered by the doctor telling Rome right off the bat that he would be on antidepressants for life. That's not necessarily true. (From what I've read, a general rule is one-and-a-half times the length of time the depressive episode has been going on, or another article said at least a year.) If a patient has multiple relapses, then yes, they may need them indefinitely, but starting them does not automatically mean you'll never be able to stop. (Also, starting a medication that can have significant initial side effects – I'm assuming an SSRI/SNRI-type drug – without telling your wife is…not great. When I started on them I felt like I was drunk for a week and I couldn't drive. I was on them for 6 years and have been off them for 10.)

[This is the second show thread this week in which I'm discussing antidepressants. It's kind of...depressing.]

Also, I am still singing Rainbow Connection a day later.

Yeah, not everyone needs to stay on them forever. Otherwise, I really liked the doctor/therapist scene a lot.

And I know Rainbow Connection by heart. I sing it to cheer myself up ALL THE TIME!

Additional note; I was really liking the Delilah/daughter story until the damn pregnancy test reveal. Fingers crossed that that storyline maybe changes up?

[kazza]

I'm still oddly drawn to the show. In decreasing order of interesting plot lines to me - and I agree there are too many. It's like they threw a bunch of potential stories out there to see what sticks. 

1.  Eddie and Katherine (and Jon) - this triangle intrigues me the most. Jon was the only one of the group who bonded with Katherine over their work. I wonder how Eddie felt about it, especially if he was once playing the Garden, but then got kicked out of his band and is now relegated to teaching guitar to kids. (And, yes, he could have been someone who found his calling teaching students, but nothing's ever proven that to be the case.)

2.  Rome and Regina. I loved what I thought was a glimmer of hope in Rome's face when he thought Regina was pregnant. It was like he found a reason to live. It was a very subtle expression IIRC, but that's what made it cool. I want to know more about Rome's life, the pressures the therapist mentioned, and why they decided to remain childless. 

3. Gary as the happy go lucky friend - I'll leave Maggie aside for now, because I like Gary infinitely more when he's not around Maggie. He's got fun if sometimes unrealistic dialogue around the guys, he wears his heart on his sleeve, and he was the only one to really reach out to Jon's son. 

4. Delilah. I'm just meh about her. I don't know where they're going with the pregnancy story. Do they want her to end up with Eddie? I wouldn't want to see that show. Or does she have Jon's kid, who turns out to be a constant reminder of Jon. Either way, it doesn't interest me. Unfortunately this isn't one of those stories they can shove into the background now. 

5. Ashley and the envelope. I started out intrigued, but I'm happy having this as a back burner plot. The loving caress of the dry cleaning was odd, and it seems Ashley had an extraordinarily close relationship with Jon. It may be just a small company, so perhaps this was normal. Still, I want to know what was happening. 

6. Maggie. Something about her just bugs me. I think perhaps it's because she's the least relatable. She's embeds herself into a tight group of friends with some psychology insight, snarky comments about Gary, and the ability to steal smuggle glassware and wine from the kitchen of someone she just met. And of course she's an incredible basketball player.

[Fable]

6 hours ago, kazza said:

I'm still oddly drawn to the show. In decreasing order of interesting plot lines to me - and I agree there are too many. It's like they threw a bunch of potential stories out there to see what sticks. 

This show seems like something I should enjoy because I like, or at least am interested in, most of the characters.  The frustrating thing is everything is happening so fast.  We have all these separate storylines going on, but none of these stories have been given time to breathe and unfold naturally, and the characters have shown no realistic growth.

We start with Eddie and his lover planning to leave their spouses, and then we find it is dear, dear Jon, his friend and her husband who killed himself.  We then have the emotional fallout from that.  All these guys (yes guys, because the women in this show seem like merely an afterthought) are facing huge life-altering events which are developing at break-neck pace, and yet we find with all this going on, it has been no more than several weeks after Perfect Jon’s passing.  I could go on, but I think the point has been made. 

It almost makes me wonder if the show runners knew this wasn’t going to last long so they needed to cram everything in so they can wrap it up. 

[sigmaforce86]

On 10/24/2018 at 11:02 PM, Lady Calypso said:

With Eddie not having his entire storyline around Delilah, I could see how he may not be a total loser. He's actually pretty smart with how he stalled so Katherine could get there in time for the play....which is why I'm surprised now that he was so stupid to start an affair with Delilah in the first place and expect to get away with it. 

Well to be fair to Eddie when he stalled the play he was thinking using his brain; when he had the affair he was thinking..............elsewhere.

13 hours ago, doodlebug said:

It is also not the current position of the Catholic Church  on suicide.  Yeah, 40 years ago, the priests would sometimes refuse to say Mass or Catholic cemeteries would refuse to bury suicides there.  But it has been a long, long time since then and there is a whole lot more understanding of mental illness and an emphasis on comforting survivors.

I’ve had the misfortune of knowing 4 different Catholic families that were affected by suicide. In every case, they had funeral Masses and the church was supportive and compassionate and repeatedly assured th that their loved one was so clearly suffering that they were not responsible for their actions. One woman whose sister had killed herself, reported it to the pastor when another parishioner told her nephew his mother was in hell. The priest personally apologized to the kid and set it straight.  He told them he also contacted the woman and told her she was wrong and made a point of discussing it in a sermon.

At the very least, on the show, the other girl should’ve been counseled, asked to remove the post and her parents notified. I would also expect she violated the school’s ant-bullying policy and face disciplinary action..  

Agree!  If the show wants to go for realism they wouldn't have the principal tell Delilah if they punished Chloe in any way (confidentiality) but Sophie saying she heard through the gossip mill that Chloe was called to the office or had a detention or something would be good.  The school must have a zero tolerance policy for bullying too.  I don't need a scene with Chole, they don't need to introduce her character on screen just for this; but even if the church still fully promoted the idea that suicide excludes you from heaven at the very least the principal should be talking to Chloe about empathy and phraseology and why saying John is "burning in hell" crossed a line.  A little throwaway line next episode that Chloe got some sort of punishment would be nice.

The show is really growing on me, I liked the hints of humor this episode after the angst of death and funeral hung over the first few.  Gary and the pee stick and Eddie and his delay tactics plus the quick conversation with him and Katherine about how Theo fell over because he tried to bow in his tree costume.  But I have no opinion about Delilah's pregnancy yet except whether true or not with the separation Eddie needs to get a real job.  In fact I'd be more interested in that story than a pregnancy story; seeing him try to do more than part-time guitar instruction and find his way in the working world.  

Also a bonus no Ashley this week - that to me is the least interesting most soap opera story they have going, I can only hope it'll be resolved soon or if they were going to drag it out maybe the writers will see it's a dead end and do some re-writes where they wrap it up more quickly then they'd planned to.

Anybody know who played Rome's Mother?  She looked really familiar and I felt like if I could just picture her a little younger I'd know who she was but it's not coming to me and she's not in any of the cast listings yet.

[luna1122]

15 minutes ago, sigmaforce86 said:

 

Anybody know who played Rome's Mother?  She looked really familiar and I felt like if I could just picture her a little younger I'd know who she was but it's not coming to me and she's not in any of the cast listings yet.

Pretty sure that was L. Scott Caldwell, who I know from, well, a million different things, but mostly as Rose, from Lost.

[sigmaforce86]

1 minute ago, luna1122 said:

Pretty sure that was L. Scott Caldwell, who I know from, well, a million different things, but mostly as Rose, from Lost.

Rose!   Of course!  Thank you - that has to be it, I was crazy for Lost when it was on and she was one of my favorite characters I just couldn't put it together.  

[doodlebug]

15 minutes ago, sigmaforce86 said:

The show is really growing on me, I liked the hints of humor this episode after the angst of death and funeral hung over the first few.  Gary and the pee stick and Eddie and his delay tactics plus the quick conversation with him and Katherine about how Theo fell over because he tried to bow in his tree costume.  But I have no opinion about Delilah's pregnancy yet except whether true or not with the separation Eddie needs to get a real job.  In fact I'd be more interested in that story than a pregnancy story; seeing him try to do more than part-time guitar instruction and find his way in the working world.  

I was also baffled as to the reason why Eddie would have to Facetime Theo.  We've seen that Katherine often has to leave early and work late.  Even on a light day, I don't imagine she can be home in time to take care of Theo in the hours immediately after school.  We've seen Eddie do these things, so why is that not going to continue?  We don't know how far Gary lives from them, but these people seem to have no problems running back and forth between homes all the time.  Why wouldn't Eddie be there to provide pre and post school care for his son?  After telling him his parents are separating and Daddy won't be living in their house anymore, why would they not let Theo know that he will see Eddie every day and that he will take him to school and pick him up whenever Mommy can't? Even if Gary's place isn't practical for a little kid, Eddie could come to the house and be there until Katherine got home. Even set a schedule so Theo knows he can count on seeing his father Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays or whatever.  I presume they are going to have to hire someone new to take care of the kid when Katherine isn't there.  The last thing the kid needs is his father almost completely absent from his day-to-day life and a stranger introduced to do stuff his father used to do so his parents don't have to see one another.

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, Fable said:

This show seems like something I should enjoy because I like, or at least am interested in, most of the characters.  The frustrating thing is everything is happening so fast.  We have all these separate storylines going on, but none of these stories have been given time to breathe and unfold naturally, and the characters have shown no realistic growth.

That is,  imo, the most serious deficit on this show. Most of the storylines would make more sense, be more interesting, if they let time pass between the episodes. None of the emotion (particularly Gary and Maggie) feels earned.
 

59 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I was also baffled as to the reason why Eddie would have to Facetime Theo.  We've seen that Katherine often has to leave early and work late.  Even on a light day, I don't imagine she can be home in time to take care of Theo in the hours immediately after school.  We've seen Eddie do these things, so why is that not going to continue?  We don't know how far Gary lives from them, but these people seem to have no problems running back and forth between homes all the time.  Why wouldn't Eddie be there to provide pre and post school care for his son?  After telling him his parents are separating and Daddy won't be living in their house anymore, why would they not let Theo know that he will see Eddie every day and that he will take him to school and pick him up whenever Mommy can't? Even if Gary's place isn't practical for a little kid, Eddie could come to the house and be there until Katherine got home. Even set a schedule so Theo knows he can count on seeing his father Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays or whatever.  I presume they are going to have to hire someone new to take care of the kid when Katherine isn't there.  The last thing the kid needs is his father almost completely absent from his day-to-day life and a stranger introduced to do stuff his father used to do so his parents don't have to see one another.

That was my reaction too. Katherine's still working, and Eddie's still not (at least for now). So it would make sense for Eddie to still be the parent who handles the school stuff and child care.

The Facetime was just a call back to Katherine's hating that she'd had to Facetime Theo for (whatever it was). It didn't really work in this particular context, though if Theo had asked if they could Facetime before bed, that would have made more sense.

[Dusty]

During the Katherine/Eddie part when they were talking to Theo about being a tree I was just wishing this was what the show was. Not just Katherine and Eddie but also Rome's depression, and Jon's family dealing with the suicide. I think that stuff is interesting itself without all this extra soapy crap added in.

I'm not really sold on Gary and Maggie. I do like the idea of Maggie's storyline though. My dad went through a long illness and while he didn't really have as much quantity as the average person he also didn't have a lot of quality the last couple of years either but he fought as much as he could until his body gave up. And he wanted to keep fighting for as long as he could but for me it made me think about what I would do. Personally, I think I would choose quality over quantity. I would have long detailed conversations with my doctor about odds and such but that's just where I'm at right now. I also don't have kids to think about if I ever needed to come to that decision so I do find her perspective interesting because I don't think you see it much. But I don't trust that the writers would be willing to go there or even write her changing her mind well at this point. I'm fully expecting her to change her mind because of THE INCREDIBLE POWER OF LOVE!!!! Instead of oh I don't know because she wants to do it for herself. I guess that might be too boring.

This is the most frustrating part of it for me. There's all these elements of the show that I'm really into and would really love to watch. Also I've seen and like most of the actors on it too. But they just had to throw in all this extra crap which just wastes time that they could be spending on actually taking more time with the characters so that each week doesn't feel like six months has passed with how fast they move on from everything. I just don't see the point of the baby daddy storyline (and you know if that baby is born it's going to be a boy named Jon regardless of who the father is) and also the mystery assistant storyline. Was the suicide not a compelling enough mystery? Family and friends trying to figure out how this person who they thought was a happy person commit suicide.

It's really my fault for continuing to be disappointed because I continue to watch even though the show showed what it was going to be by having the affair be between Eddie and Delilah. But I see glimpses of what I thought the show was going to be and I keep hoping it will. Wow. This turned out way longer and more of a rant than I initially planned. I guess it really hit me this episode.

[radiochik]

9 hours ago, kazza said:

 

5. Ashley and the envelope. I started out intrigued, but I'm happy having this as a back burner plot. The loving caress of the dry cleaning was odd, and it seems Ashley had an extraordinarily close relationship with Jon. It may be just a small company, so perhaps this was normal. Still, I want to know what was happening. 

 

I've thought all along that Jon and Ashley were involved/having an affair so the caress of the dry cleaning kind of goes along with that.  Either that or she had an unhealthy obsession with him but we've already seen that Jon and Delilah hadn't been happy for about 2 years at this point so both of them having affairs wouldn't be surprising.  I don't hate Delilah like most of you do.  The affair was wrong but feeling alone and unsupported in a relationship or feeling like the only one your husband doesn't pay attention to can wear on a person.  Doesn't mean you should sleep with one of his best friends but I do have a little empathy for her.  Except for the pregnancy.  I really wish the show hadn't gone there.

[Lady Calypso]

9 minutes ago, Dusty said:

I'm not really sold on Gary and Maggie. I do like the idea of Maggie's storyline though. My dad went through a long illness and while he didn't really have as much quantity as the average person he also didn't have a lot of quality the last couple of years either but he fought as much as he could until his body gave up. And he wanted to keep fighting for as long as he could but for me it made me think about what I would do. Personally, I think I would choose quality over quantity. I would have long detailed conversations with my doctor about odds and such but that's just where I'm at right now. I also don't have kids to think about if I ever needed to come to that decision so I do find her perspective interesting because I don't think you see it much. But I don't trust that the writers would be willing to go there or even write her changing her mind well at this point. I'm fully expecting her to change her mind because of THE INCREDIBLE POWER OF LOVE!!!! Instead of oh I don't know because she wants to do it for herself. I guess that might be too boring.

She is 1000000000% going to change her mind and decide to FIGHT. Because why? Because of the POWER OF LOVE....or something. Also, they won't want to get rid of Allison Miller if the show gets renewed for a season 2 and her prognosis is basically to the end of this season, possibly stretching into a possible next season. With them going full force into pregnancy with Delilah ft a very special Who's Your Daddy subplot, they're not killing off Maggie and she's going to fight. They just give off the illusion that she had a true choice with Gary coming around this episode. It's still ending up the same way. Maggie will change her mind because of Gary, she'll do chemo, maybe go into surgery, and BOOM, in remission. They're definitely not going the more risky and interesting route with Maggie sticking to her choice and her dying at the end. 

12 minutes ago, Dusty said:

During the Katherine/Eddie part when they were talking to Theo about being a tree I was just wishing this was what the show was. Not just Katherine and Eddie but also Rome's depression, and Jon's family dealing with the suicide. I think that stuff is interesting itself without all this extra soapy crap added in.

 

Yeah, seriously, the whole Theo being a tree for the play plot was infinitely more interesting than 90% of the plots in this show so far.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, sigmaforce86 said:

The show is really growing on me, I liked the hints of humor this episode after the angst of death and funeral hung over the first few.  Gary and the pee stick and Eddie and his delay tactics plus the quick conversation with him and Katherine about how Theo fell over because he tried to bow in his tree costume.  But I have no opinion about Delilah's pregnancy yet except whether true or not with the separation Eddie needs to get a real job.  In fact I'd be more interested in that story than a pregnancy story; seeing him try to do more than part-time guitar instruction and find his way in the working world.  

1

While I did find Gary and the pee stick expectedly funny, I couldn't help but think, "Yeah, but Friends did it better..."

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

I was also baffled as to the reason why Eddie would have to Facetime Theo.  We've seen that Katherine often has to leave early and work late.  Even on a light day, I don't imagine she can be home in time to take care of Theo in the hours immediately after school.  We've seen Eddie do these things, so why is that not going to continue?  We don't know how far Gary lives from them, but these people seem to have no problems running back and forth between homes all the time.  Why wouldn't Eddie be there to provide pre and post school care for his son?  After telling him his parents are separating and Daddy won't be living in their house anymore, why would they not let Theo know that he will see Eddie every day and that he will take him to school and pick him up whenever Mommy can't? Even if Gary's place isn't practical for a little kid, Eddie could come to the house and be there until Katherine got home. Even set a schedule so Theo knows he can count on seeing his father Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays or whatever.  I presume they are going to have to hire someone new to take care of the kid when Katherine isn't there.  The last thing the kid needs is his father almost completely absent from his day-to-day life and a stranger introduced to do stuff his father used to do so his parents don't have to see one another.

 

Yeah, that is a head scratcher. I get that is a messy situation and I would NOT expect Katherine to be the one to move out, for a number of reasons.  But who is taking care of Theo while she works?  Is she hiring a nanny?  Also, we learned last episode that Eddie teaches guitar out of some sort of space behind his house...how is that going to work if he's not at the house?  Also, does Eddie have a car?  He must...he had to drive Theo around, yet Gary had to come and pick him up?  Really, little details can make or break a show.

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, seriously, the whole Theo being a tree for the play plot was infinitely more interesting than 90% of the plots in this show so far.

 

So, so true...but Theo is the only kid on this show that I like.  Sorry, but true...

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yeah, that is a head scratcher. I get that is a messy situation and I would NOT expect Katherine to be the one to move out, for a number of reasons.  But who is taking care of Theo while she works?  Is she hiring a nanny?  Also, we learned last episode that Eddie teaches guitar out of some sort of space behind his house...how is that going to work if he's not at the house?  Also, does Eddie have a car?  He must...he had to drive Theo around, yet Gary had to come and pick him up?  Really, little details can make or break a show.

I assume Katherine will hire a nanny on the days that Eddie doesn't have Theo. As for Eddie's guitar lessons, I'm guessing he will find an alternative place to teach. 

But yeah, Gary picking up Eddie was weird. Maybe Gary was just coming to help move Eddie's things? 

[HazelEyes4325]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I assume Katherine will hire a nanny on the days that Eddie doesn't have Theo. As for Eddie's guitar lessons, I'm guessing he will find an alternative place to teach. 

But yeah, Gary picking up Eddie was weird. Maybe Gary was just coming to help move Eddie's things? 

Except Gary's car can barely fit a passenger, much less "stuff."  

Okay, I realize I'm too deep into the details here, but things like this really get under my skin.

[Eeksquire]

The thing that hit me with the Gary/Katherine/Eddie scene was that Katherine said that Gary is the one that's "always there."  Really? I feel like the show could not have been more heavy handed that JON was the magical mystery friend that knew what you needed before you even needed it.  Especially for Katherine to say that - didn't she go into labor in Jon's car or with Jon?

[HazelEyes4325]

5 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

The thing that hit me with the Gary/Katherine/Eddie scene was that Katherine said that Gary is the one that's "always there."  Really? I feel like the show could not have been more heavy handed that JON was the magical mystery friend that knew what you needed before you even needed it.  Especially for Katherine to say that - didn't she go into labor in Jon's car or with Jon?

I totally didn't catch that but, yeah, that is strange.  Plus Jon was absent from this episode (which I am fine with).

Katherine's water broke in Jon's car, so she went into labor at some point before that.  We know from last week that they couldn't find Eddie when it happened.  Gary eventually found him drunk in a bar.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

She is 1000000000% going to change her mind and decide to FIGHT. Because why? Because of the POWER OF LOVE....or something. Also, they won't want to get rid of Allison Miller if the show gets renewed for a season 2 and her prognosis is basically to the end of this season, possibly stretching into a possible next season. With them going full force into pregnancy with Delilah ft a very special Who's Your Daddy subplot, they're not killing off Maggie and she's going to fight. They just give off the illusion that she had a true choice with Gary coming around this episode. It's still ending up the same way. Maggie will change her mind because of Gary, she'll do chemo, maybe go into surgery, and BOOM, in remission. They're definitely not going the more risky and interesting route with Maggie sticking to her choice and her dying at the end. 

Yeah, seriously, the whole Theo being a tree for the play plot was infinitely more interesting than 90% of the plots in this show so far.

Unless, of course, they're going for the juxtaposition of birth/death in the finale.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, Clanstarling said:

Unless, of course, they're going for the juxtaposition of birth/death in the finale.

That would be hard to do without a time jump...and I really don't want a time jump.  But, then again, there is a lot in this show I don't want, yet here we are.  And I'm still watching because, despite all my complaints, I still think this is a better show than most of the dramas on broadcast television.

But I just cannot see them having Maggie not do treatment.  And not because of Gary's once-in-a-lifetime love for her, but because Maggie is very clearly not a "device" character in this show (like Ashley, or for some reason which I do not understand, Regina).  She's very much in the center of her own story and her story can't be wasting away and dying...because that's not a story.  And I can't believe that they would give this much real estate to a character who will be dead in 3 months.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

That is,  imo, the most serious deficit on this show. Most of the storylines would make more sense, be more interesting, if they let time pass between the episodes. None of the emotion (particularly Gary and Maggie) feels earned.

This combined with the overstuffed plot is killing my enjoyment of the show. We spend far too much time watching them react to the plot rather than seeing them just live their lives. This was the first time we actually saw Maggie and Gary just hanging out and even that was pretense and short lived.  We really just see them have sex and fight. There are no ordinary moments that show why we should be invested in them. This also the problem with Maggie as a whole. She is repeatedly thrown into dramatic moments when she hasn’t earned her place their yet.

I think that’s why the end reveal bothered me so much. This was the first episode where they were relatable as people and the ending went right back a huge plot moment. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Guest

[jhlipton]

On 10/25/2018 at 6:41 AM, luna1122 said:

I wanted this to not be a show I began to hate watch, but I think I am, much like This is Us. I might have to cut the cord on both, tho I'm still vaguely interested in just why Ron Livingston killed himself. Maybe just having to hang out with these folks was a compelling reason.

I would have been at least a bit content hate-watching this show.  But there's a reason I call it "A Million Boring Pieces".

On 10/25/2018 at 9:20 AM, Clanstarling said:

I think they said once that his band opened for a big time band. 

On 10/25/2018 at 9:55 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Eddie's band opened for Kings of Leon which is what we saw in the flashback where everyone had backstage passes.

Kings of Leon were pretty much a flash-in-the-pan band.  One or two big hits before they faded back into oblivion.  Not what I'd consider "big-time".

 

On 10/25/2018 at 12:08 PM, Dani said:

It is a lot more enjoyable if you throw logic and continuity out the window. 

Plot and acting, too.  LOL

[geauxaway]

On 10/24/2018 at 10:02 PM, Lady Calypso said:

 

Also, that was a horrific basketball game. I'm pretty sure they weren't playing right. 

 

You always have to win by 2!  This bothered me way more than it should have, but it’s standard pick up b-ball rules (at least where I come from).

It also really annoyed me when Eddie purposely delayed the start of the play.  All of the other parents who were on time shouldn’t have been inconvenienced because you are trying to make nice with your wife for cheating on her.  I know it was only 20 minutes, but initially he was going to try to create a 2 hour (?) distraction?  What if other working parents in the audience took their lunch hour to come to the play and now they have to miss the end of it because they have to get back to work?   I’m glad the judge shut down her initial request for adjournment, too.  Obviously she still maneuvered it to get her own way, as unrealistic as that may be.  

[seacliffsal]

On 10/25/2018 at 8:33 AM, Dani said:

I hated this part. It was even worse once I remembered that they have only known each other for two weeks. 

This is exactly the same thought I had.  I continue to see the immediate inclusion of Maggie into the friend group and Gary's life as a really weak plot development.  In the previous (?) episode Maggie was mad at Gary for being a player and yet she was the one who insisted that this was not a serious relationship.  Now, all of a sudden, Gary is expected to be there for her when, according to the show's timeline, they have known each other for about two-three weeks.  Too much too soon.  Explore what is happening among the long-time relationships and stop shoe-horning in Maggie.  

I also agree with others that the basketball game set-up was stupid and manipulative on Gary's part.  And, of course, Maggie won (such a t.v. trope).  

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, geauxaway said:

It also really annoyed me when Eddie purposely delayed the start of the play.  All of the other parents who were on time shouldn’t have been inconvenienced because you are trying to make nice with your wife for cheating on her.  I know it was only 20 minutes, but initially he was going to try to create a 2 hour (?) distraction?  What if other working parents in the audience took their lunch hour to come to the play and now they have to miss the end of it because they have to get back to work?   I’m glad the judge shut down her initial request for adjournment, too.  Obviously she still maneuvered it to get her own way, as unrealistic as that may be.  

2

I think that scene said a lot about Eddie.  Of course there were other working parents and, yes, Katherine should have gotten the email (also, yes, Eddie should have told her--but beyond that, I'm sure that there were a number of divorced parents in that class and communication should always go to both parents/guardians just in case).  But Eddie was completely oblivious to pretty much everyone else.  It wasn't that he didn't care that other people would be inconvenienced, it just hadn't occurred to him.  And, if I remember correctly, he backed down, or at least changed tactics, as soon as that was pointed out to him.  It's not that he's a bad guy, he's just...completely clueless.

Eddie is someone who is completely unable to see past his own needs.  He didn't get the attention from Katherine that he felt he needed, so he went elsewhere.  Then, when it becomes clear why he wasn't getting that attention from Katherine, he is completely surprised by it and feels guilty.  The thing is, most people who operate like this are about 7 years old.  Eddie seems to be stuck in a childlike state, something that his friends (and maybe even Katherine) are probably enabling it.  He's basically Peter Pan.  Its annoying as all get out, but I do think it provides his character a path for growth.  I just hope the show goes down that path.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I think that scene said a lot about Eddie.  Of course there were other working parents and, yes, Katherine should have gotten the email (also, yes, Eddie should have told her--but beyond that, I'm sure that there were a number of divorced parents in that class and communication should always go to both parents/guardians just in case).  But Eddie was completely oblivious to pretty much everyone else.  It wasn't that he didn't care that other people would be inconvenienced, it just hadn't occurred to him.  And, if I remember correctly, he backed down, or at least changed tactics, as soon as that was pointed out to him.  It's not that he's a bad guy, he's just...completely clueless.

Eddie is someone who is completely unable to see past his own needs.  He didn't get the attention from Katherine that he felt he needed, so he went elsewhere.  Then, when it becomes clear why he wasn't getting that attention from Katherine, he is completely surprised by it and feels guilty.  The thing is, most people who operate like this are about 7 years old.  Eddie seems to be stuck in a childlike state, something that his friends (and maybe even Katherine) are probably enabling it.  He's basically Peter Pan.  Its annoying as all get out, but I do think it provides his character a path for growth.  I just hope the show goes down that path.

This is the perfect description. He actually reminds me of a family member. He’s not deliberately cruel but is so incredibly self involved that he is capable of being very cruel without every considering those he’s hurting. He is stuck in an us vs. them mentality. First it was him and Delilah vs Katherine. In this episode him and Katherine vs. the school. That mindset allows him to justify all kinds of hurtful behavior  

When Delilah ended the affair he was back to being all in with Katherine. Now that Katherine ended things he will be back to being all in with Delilah if she will let him. He is so incredibly charismatic and genuine in the moment that everyone enables him. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

Well, I like the lack of Delilah this episode. But I think that will be short-lived.

After this episode, Katherine has surpassed Gary as my favorite character. Both because she’s been fleshed out more and Gary skeeved me out with that basketball game. 

[possibilities]

Are we all completely convinced the pregnancy really is Delilah's? I was hoping that was a lie Regina told, but then I don't know who else I'd rather it be. Maybe Maggie, and she gets an abortion because her choices are either (1) chemo, which would be bad for the fetus, or (2) no chemo, which the doctor said would kill her within a year-- also not great for a fetus/newborn. That's the kind of abortion ABC might be willing to allow. I just don't want this show to add a baby.

[HazelEyes4325]

55 minutes ago, deaja said:

Well, I like the lack of Delilah this episode. But I think that will be short-lived.

After this episode, Katherine has surpassed Gary as my favorite character. Both because she’s been fleshed out more and Gary skeeved me out with that basketball game. 

Gary is a character I like to watch, but I wouldn't want him in my life (if that makes any sense).  He's definitely entertaining, but I need the break from him every 5 minutes or so or his schtick gets old.

Yeah, I'm afraid the limited Delilah was probably a one-off.

37 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Are we all completely convinced the pregnancy really is Delilah's? I was hoping that was a lie Regina told, but then I don't know who else I'd rather it be. Maybe Maggie, and she gets an abortion because her choices are either (1) chemo, which would be bad for the fetus, or (2) no chemo, which the doctor said would kill her within a year-- also not great for a fetus/newborn. That's the kind of abortion ABC might be willing to allow. I just don't want this show to add a baby.

I will say that something doesn't quite add up.  The scene we saw earlier in the episode didn't indicate that anything at all was amiss and even Regina's reaction when Rome thought she was the one who took the test doesn't exactly work in the "Delilah is pregnant and we don't know who the daddy is" scenario.  

I have a hard time believing it could possibly be Maggie because:

1 - I doubt she's even fertile after her cancer treatments and, even if she were pregnant, it wouldn't be Gary's, given how little time has passed on this show.

2 - We never saw Maggie at Regina's apartment and since Maggie is ALWAYS where the action is, I can't see her having been there earlier without a scene once again reminding us how vital she is to everything in this show about people she has just met.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

Are we all completely convinced the pregnancy really is Delilah's? I was hoping that was a lie Regina told, but then I don't know who else I'd rather it be. Maybe Maggie, and she gets an abortion because her choices are either (1) chemo, which would be bad for the fetus, or (2) no chemo, which the doctor said would kill her within a year-- also not great for a fetus/newborn. That's the kind of abortion ABC might be willing to allow. I just don't want this show to add a baby.

Considering Regina knows about Delilah's affair and the fact that she was very recently widowed, I doubt Regina would've told Rome that the test was Delilah's unless it was.

[Eeksquire]

I kind of wish that it was Maggie, but Delilah wistfully rubbing her belly while her daughter played "The Rainbow Connection" tells me that - in this plot point at least - the show is going to be straightforward.  For now, anyway.  I mean, given Eddie's speech about how having Theo changed his life, and that Jon is being deified by his kids and family after his death, lord knows that she's not going to be allowed to have an abortion.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

I kind of wish that it was Maggie, but Delilah wistfully rubbing her belly while her daughter played "The Rainbow Connection" tells me that - in this plot point at least - the show is going to be straightforward.  For now, anyway.  I mean, given Eddie's speech about how having Theo changed his life, and that Jon is being deified by his kids and family after his death, lord knows that she's not going to be allowed to have an abortion.

I have...feelings about this.  On one hand, something isn't making sense in the way that Delilah and Regina interacted earlier in the show and how Regina responded to Rome at the end.  On the other, they are being very heavy-handed, as you pointed out.  If it does turn out that Delilah isn't pregnant, this will probably the worst red herring I've ever seen.

[maggiemae]

Here is the thing - the children of the cheating parents have no idea. Like they will never learn about that or they could care less.

[debraran]

4 hours ago, maggiemae said:

Here is the thing - the children of the cheating parents have no idea. Like they will never learn about that or they could care less.

I hate the pregnancy story line but I'm sure if the kids don't know, they will soon enough. DNA tests, chatter on the phone they overhear, whatever. Why did they do this, the writers, I don't know. She's in her 40's, if it not Jon's does she and Eddie get together? Ugh.

And is it just me, but why did a friend bring a pregnancy test to her friends house, to do? That struck me very odd and if it was only to give the curve ball later, PLEASE don't do the This is Us type stuff, just write well. You can write great scripts with tension and laughs and tears without the mystery element. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by debraran

[hoodooznoodooz]

Ugh. Maggie is annoying. That is all.

[Lady Calypso]

9 hours ago, maggiemae said:

Here is the thing - the children of the cheating parents have no idea. Like they will never learn about that or they could care less.

They may not know now...but Sophie is a teenager so she'll likely find out sooner rather than later. It's the question of whether Delilah tells her or she overhears from someone. I'm feeling pretty certain that Sophie will be rightfully pissed at Delilah for a while. That's the only bright spot to this storyline. 

[HazelEyes4325]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

I hate the pregnancy story line but I'm sure if the kids don't know, they will soon enough. DNA tests, chatter on the phone they overhear, whatever. Why did they do this, the writers, I don't know. She's in her 40's, if it not Jon's does she and Eddie get together? Ugh.

And is it just me, but why did a friend bring a pregnancy test to her friends house, to do? That struck me very odd and if it was only to give the curve ball later, PLEASE don't do the This is Us type stuff, just write well. You can write great scripts with tension and laughs and tears without the mystery element. 

6

I love this post.  I had almost an entire reply written, and then realized it was better suited for the spec thread, so I moved it there.

[Kroliosis]

How long ago did the men get stuck in the elevator? It was clearly before Theo was born, so at least 7 years.  Were Gina & Delilah friends before the elevator then?  It was mentioned Gina went on a date with Gary. Did Gary introduce Rome & Gina or did Delilah?  I don't know why I care.

For some reason I didn't think these people were friends as long as they have been.

[Enigma X]

I don't know how long they have been friends but I buy it. Maybe because my best friend and I became best friends in one bus ride that lasted only 45 minutes. It happens. Maybe not to everyone, but it happened with us.

 

I get the feeling that the elevator was their introduction and Jon, being the idealistic one, got that "feeling" that these three guys are going to be my buds. They went along because of Jon's offer of season-long Bruin's tickets and the friendship was nurtured over the years. 

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, Kroliosis said:

How long ago did the men get stuck in the elevator? It was clearly before Theo was born, so at least 7 years.  Were Gina & Delilah friends before the elevator then?  It was mentioned Gina went on a date with Gary. Did Gary introduce Rome & Gina or did Delilah?  I don't know why I care.

For some reason I didn't think these people were friends as long as they have been.

I think they said it's been 10 years? But the pilot's been inconsistent with some things. For example, Gary said during the pilot that none of them were really friends or talked about deep things, but obviously that's not true.

We don't know anything about who met who when. 

[DearEvette]

I think that is where the crux of my dissatisfaction with the show comes from.  In the pilot the hook was the suicide and the relationship between these men.  But so far they have not grounded those relationships at all.  Instead they have spent too much time on the affair, Eddie's F'ed up marriage, and Maggie's cancer.  It feels like we are getting a lot of story but none of it is actually satisfying. 

I hate to bring up This Is Us because I really don't think the shows are that similar, but one thing that show has done well is how it uses flashbacks so effectively to inform a lot of the present day action.  This show could stand to give a little more attention to that, especially since it they are trying to sell us on the idea that is was Jon that was the glue to a lot of them.  As it is, it is all telling and no showing, which is bad in written work and even worse in a visual media.  If you are going to build the foundation on the relationships on a dead guy then you got to give us something of that guy.  Right now, his absence, imo, is like the elephant in the room re: the plot. 

I do like Gary, Rome, and Katherine.  I also like what little bit I've seen of Regina.  I dislike Eddie, but I think David Giuntoli is doing a great job with him and under other circumstances I would be really engaged in his and Katherine's issues.  But right now it just all feels so disjointed, like the show really can't find its focus.

[hoodooznoodooz]

1 hour ago, Kroliosis said:

How long ago did the men get stuck in the elevator? It was clearly before Theo was born, so at least 7 years.  Were Gina & Delilah friends before the elevator then?  It was mentioned Gina went on a date with Gary. Did Gary introduce Rome & Gina or did Delilah?  I don't know why I care.

For some reason I didn't think these people were friends as long as they have been.

 

55 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I don't know how long they have been friends but I buy it. Maybe because my best friend and I became best friends in one bus ride that lasted only 45 minutes. It happens. Maybe not to everyone, but it happened with us.

 

I get the feeling that the elevator was their introduction and Jon, being the idealistic one, got that "feeling" that these three guys are going to be my buds. They went along because of Jon's offer of season-long Bruin's tickets and the friendship was nurtured over the years. 

We had better not learn that Gina met Gary at a breast cancer support group. 

We need to see Jon’s other friends, the ones he knew before he got stuck in an elevator. Not just his funeral-attending friends. The guys he went to college with, etc. Otherwise, he’s just the ideal stalker. 

[Enigma X]

It would be nice to see but we won't. Most shows only act as if their cast are all the friends and family their main characters have or need. This would not be unique to this show.