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dubbel zout

S04.E12: I Need a Break

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THE HAPPY PLACE — When Rebecca (Rachel Bloom) and Greg (Skylar Astin) take a day trip, things don’t go quite as planned.  Meanwhile, Paula (Donna Lynne Champlin) has an incredibly stressful week.  

Edited by dubbel zout · Reason: added ep title and description

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I don't blame Rebecca for not wanting to go on meds, considering all the stigma attached. And it's pretty easy for anyone with any issues to backslide on treatment when they think they are "cured." The problem is that it's never that simple.

Still, it had to take a near relapse and Paula having a heart attack for her to finally take the doctor's advice.

At least Nathaniel and Josh were pretty understanding about it. I was glad Nathaniel in particular didn't take advantage of that position. It's a slippery slope to a MeToo situation.

I know not everyone likes waterparks, but come on, Greg, did you really have to sulk the whole time?

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I don't think there's a stigma to being on meds. Maybe 15 years ago. But in Southern California? Any of the coastal places, even West Covina? No.

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From personal experience, I’ve been resisting medication for anxiety because I’ve tried them in the past and hated the side effects, not because I think there is a stigma attached. I actually started sobbing during the last scene where Rebecca took the pill, it really hit home for me. 

So Rebecca shoplifts now? Huh? 

The makeup department did a VERY good job making DLC look sick. And she just kept getting progressively worse. Shouldn’t her youngest son have been in the hospital waiting room too?

I know Rachel’s husband was supposed to be playing a socially awkward character, but to me it just came off as bad acting. 

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I adored this episode. I love the way they've handled Rebecca's diagnosis and her journey through treatment. I've struggled a lot with my mental health over the past year and a half (no new diagnoses, but dealing with medication shifts and massive depressive episodes). This show has been a light in the darkness for me. I don't know what I'm going to do without it. 

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Thiiiiiis is the Crazy Ex-Girlfriend I tune in for. And yeah, I think Rebecca's reluctance with regard to meds was the fear of side effects, not stigma -- she was emphasizing what a zombie she felt like when taking others previously.

I was ready to eyeroll a Paula menopause story because it's such a cliche, so I was glad the show was actually making a different important medical point that also neatly tied up the Rebecca story (arguably on the nose, but I think Rebecca was fully aware that the argument she made to Paula was the one she also needed to hear herself, so it's lampshaded).

While the Greg song was very Santino Greg in characterization, it also underlined that he's only changed so much, and if Rebecca does end the series with any guy, she's going to be a lot happier with one who shares her ability to take joy in all sorts of goofy things. That actually can apply to any of the remaining known candidates, but it's another indication (besides the fact that they've established the romance this early) that Greg can be safely ruled out for endgame.

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Jack Dolgen gave Skylar Austin a shout out for "I hate everything but you" and Austin did kick ass. The problem, for me, is his body language and uber-energetic performance contradicted the jaded guy defined by his anhedonia (the actual original title of Annie Hall). The second time Austin yelled "Even more examples!!!!" his body was writhing with energy. He was uninhibited and full of abandon the entire performance. This is a guy exploding with fun while singing about how he hates everything, and I don't think this was intentional or considered.

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While the Greg song was very Santino Greg in characterization, it also underlined that he's only changed so much, and if Rebecca does end the series with any guy, she's going to be a lot happier with one who shares her ability to take joy in all sorts of goofy things. That actually can apply to any of the remaining known candidates, but it's another indication (besides the fact that they've established the romance this early) that Greg can be safely ruled out for endgame.

Yeah, while I’m glad Rebecca took the actions she did at the end, I hate that she felt such a compelling need to apologize to Greg and felt that she had been mean to him.  Greg was a total ass pretty much the whole episode; it’s a pretty reasonable reaction to be upset if the person who agrees to go with you to somewhere fun then never really tries, sulks the whole time, then comes back and starts accusing you of backsliding for calling him out on his jerk behavior.  It felt pretty close to gaslighting, and I hope we’re not supposed to agree with Rebecca that she’s the one who wronged him.

Also glad to see the return of more music this episode, and the Paula thing really hit me hard, which is one thing the show’s been very good at:  when a storyline seems silly or funny and then suddenly you’re hit with it actually being something scary and serious.

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3 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

Yeah, while I’m glad Rebecca took the actions she did at the end, I hate that she felt such a compelling need to apologize to Greg and felt that she had been mean to him.  Greg was a total ass pretty much the whole episode; it’s a pretty reasonable reaction to be upset if the person who agrees to go with you to somewhere fun then never really tries, sulks the whole time, then comes back and starts accusing you of backsliding for calling him out on his jerk behavior.  It felt pretty close to gaslighting, and I hope we’re not supposed to agree with Rebecca that she’s the one who wronged him.

Except that she was backsliding.  She didn't want to recognize it, but he was right about that; moreover, she said some truly shitty things to him (and he did not respond in kind), for which she rightly apologized.  I still don't care for Astin as Greg, but Greg was not gaslighting Rebecca.  At all.  The rest of the episode bore that out.  Also, Rebecca strong-armed him pretty heavily into going to the water park when he expressly told her water parks were not his jam and then acted really put out that he wasn't having fun doing the thing he told her he didn't want to do; he may have agreed to go, but she can't be mad that he didn't suddenly love it.  I do agree that this should be a sign to both of them that they're ultimately not compatible, though.

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Oh, Rebecca. On the one hand, I am all for people being open to new experiences. I know that I have tried lots of new things because my friends/boyfriends/sisters were interested in them. But I also think that if you really don't like something, people should not pressure you to do it.

There is nothing wrong with having different interests. Just because you are dating someone (or even married to someone) does mean that you have to like all the same things and do everything together.

Greg is allowed to not like water parks. He was pretty upfront with Rebecca about not wanting to go and he kept trying to check in with her to make sure that she was being honest with him about how she felt (like wen she said it was fine and he asked if she was really fine or if she was upset, and later when he said she seemed annoyed with him).

The one thing that I think he did wrong was that he agreed to go to Raging Waters but didn't specify that he wasn't planning to go on any of the slides/rides. It seemed reasonable for Rebecca to assume that if he agreed to go then he would be, you know, doing water park stuff.

Greg has never hidden the fact that he's a misanthrope. But he's still doing what he needs to do to take care of himself (not drinking, going to meetings, etc). What Rebecca has done (refused medication, quit going to group, avoiding her therapist) is similar to what people do when they get sick - realize there's something wrong, go to the doctor, and then only take their medication until they feel better. There's a reason the prescription label on your antibiotics specifies how many days to take it. You can't just stop taking it once the major symptoms fade.

I totally understand Rebecca's concern with antidepressants given some of her bad experiences, but she can't give up EVERY form of help that's supposed to treat her BPD. If she's not going to take any meds, then she definitely needs to keep seeing her therapist and going to group therapy. Instead, as soon as she felt the high of being in a relationship, she dropped all of those tools.

Rebecca's love of Lilo and Stitch cracked me up.

Nathaniel might have started off yelling, "I'M NICE NOW!" but he finally seems like he has really changed. The old Nathaniel wouldn't have hesitated to have sex with drunk Rebecca, but new Nathaniel sent her home. I'm glad that Josh didn't let drunk Rebecca have sex with him either.

I'm understand that the show needed Rebecca to backslide, but I'm glad that she realized that she was making a lot of mistakes and went back to Dr. Shin. It was clear that she was regressing. She insisted that Greg go to Raging Waters to fulfill her fantasy, she started jumping to extreme conclusions (that Greg thought she was an annoying idiot when he said nothing even close to that, that she was making him miserable), lashing out when he said he wanted to go home, then sliding into destructive behavior (getting drunk and trying to hook up with both Nathaniel and Josh).

I thought we were just going to get the typical menopause storyline with Paula so I liked the heart attack twist, partly because the symptoms are different for women (which is why they often don't seek treatment) and partly because many women are like Paula - they have a lot of responsibilities so they put off going to the doctor and think they can power through it.

I'm glad that Rebecca is taking her treatment seriously again. Hopefully she will keep her promise to Dr. Shin to get back to group therapy.

And yay, we got three songs this week!

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8 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

I don't think there's a stigma to being on meds. Maybe 15 years ago. But in Southern California? Any of the coastal places, even West Covina? No.

Okay maybe I need to clarify what I meant by stigma: I didn't just mean public perception, I also meant in terms of side effects too. There's always some kind of apprehension in how the meds will affect your daily routine, ect.

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I didn't like the first two songs this week. They felt very out of place and I didn't get what they were trying to go for. Especially the second song (I'm not sad). I'm a brit so I feel like I should have understood the reference, but I really didn't. The last song was better, and fit in more with the episode, but it wasn't memorable. I'm curious what songs they'll sing on the live show, but to be honest I doubt any of them will be from this season. The music hasn't been nearly as good. 

I liked the concept of the episode, and it really was a necessary episode, but it felt a bit unearned and quick. I feel like it could have been executed better, and the seeds of Rebecca's backslide could have been planted earlier. 

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I'm surprised none of her doctors had told Rebecca that there are a lot of antidepressants available and not all of them would turn her into a zombie. (Or maybe we saw that scene in an earlier season?) I don't blame Rebecca for being reluctant to take her meds because of the side effects, but a discussion with her docs could have cleared that up. 

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The old Nathaniel wouldn't have hesitated to have sex with drunk Rebecca,

I don't know. Old Nathaniel was gross, but I think even he'd have drawn the line here. Rebecca shows up drunk (loved the running joke that everyone knows she's a "petite Jew" who can't have more than three drinks), slurring her words to the point of incomprehensibility, and starts pawing him. And who's to say she would have stayed conscious long enough to have sex? 

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I thought we were just going to get the typical menopause storyline with Paula so I liked the heart attack twist, partly because the symptoms are different for women (which is why they often don't seek treatment) and partly because many women are like Paula - they have a lot of responsibilities so they put off going to the doctor and think they can power through it.

I was thinking it might be the flu or an unplanned pregnancy (or menopause), so I, too, was glad it was something less clichéd. I was also glad her doctor immediately recognized the symptoms as a heart attack. Because the symptoms for women having heart attacks can be so different from men's—and the still-too-common belief that women don't have heart attacks—we aren't treated promptly and/or properly. And I loved his (paraphrased) "You can schedule your death" comment when Paula was resistant to getting to the cardiac unit ASAP.

Paula had better not die, is all I can say now.

2 hours ago, doesntworkonwood said:

the seeds of Rebecca's backslide could have been planted earlier

I think they were, they just weren't in neon lights. We've had no indication Rebecca was keeping up with therapy or her workbooks. The idea that she could be in a relationship with anyone right now is a warning. I think the show sped things up with Greg to make the point that Rebecca shouldn't be with anyone yet—she needs to find a way to do her self-care and live her life, and she hasn't quite found that balance yet. She still gets too much of her self-worth from being in a relationship.

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I thought Greg was being GREAT at the water park. It's true he should have said he wasn't planning to go on the rides, but when Rebecca called him on it, he realized that she was right and he did try. She was upset because her photos didn't fulfill her fantasies. I can't fault someone who tries the ride and is not enjoying it, so their candid photo in the process doesn't look gleeful. He was trying to give her a good time at his own expense and she was whining about how he wasn't enjoying it enough. Then he told her he loves her, and love conquers all, even though nothing else gives him any joy-- I wouldn't call that exactly a healthy attitude, but it's romantic as hell and that should be right up Rebecca's fantasy alley.

Rebecca pressured him, which was wrong but not criminal. He was at first not clear enough, but he tried, which is also not criminal. I actually think they are writing Greg as being too perfect-- same with Josh and Nathanial-- compared to Rebecca's degree of dysfunction. I mean... they've all had radical degrees of change while she's in a massive relapse and acting out while they chivalrously support her from a perch of lucid, generous patience. I think it's possible for healthy people to have different temperaments and interests to be in a happy and healthy relationship. I don't think this on incident is enough to say she and Greg are not well-matched. I think it more shows that Rebecca was spiraling and incapable of coping with the situation in a healthy way.

I'm not saying they ARE a good match. But I don't think this week's events are indicative either way. Everything about their renewed relationship has been under-developed and more fantasy-based than otherwise. That's typical of early stage romantic relationships, whether or not there is any kind of mental illness involved. It's called "the honeymoon phase" and it's common. Whether you still want to be together when that fades and reality sets in is more what I think shows compatibility or not.

Everyone sounded way too autotuned this week.

Really appreciated Paula's story. Though you CAN be having heavy periods during peri-menopause.  It's called flooding and it's not that rare. But I loved that they went the heart attack route instead, because that gets talked about way less than "ain't menopause a bitch".

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The one thing that I think he did wrong was that he agreed to go to Raging Waters but didn't specify that he wasn't planning to go on any of the slides/rides. It seemed reasonable for Rebecca to assume that if he agreed to go then he would be, you know, doing water park stuff.

This is why I think Greg’s behavior was way out of line.  Almost every relationship has people who have some different interests, but in a healthy relationship if something has real meaning for your partner you sometimes go do something that’s not your favorite thing and put an actual effort into it because you know how much it means to that person.

I dislike how Rebecca getting him to go is seen as though she held a gun to his head; the water park is something that has meaning for her, and Greg agrees to go without, as you note, telling her that he’s not going to put much if any effort into trying (like even going on the slides) once he gets there. Here, it almost feels like we’re supposed to accept Greg’s toxic level of extreme misanthropy as something Rebecca should just capitulate to and be like “oh, honey, I understand.  I’ll just go on all the slides myself so you can sit here and hate everybody and in the future we’ll just do the things that you want to do,” which strikes me as much a more unhealthy attitude than anything Rebecca’s done up to that point in the episode.  

 I think there are ways that Rebecca is backsliding, but trying to get your lover to do something that has special meaning for you, having that lover agree and then being disappointed and irritated that he doesn’t make much of a real effort at all once he gets there doesn’t strike me as crazy out-of-control behavior, that part just strikes me as human.  As an episode hinting that their relationship is doomed, I find all of what we see realistic, but I’m not comfortable if we’re totally supposed to buy at face value the way it plays it at the end with Rebecca’s guilt and overwhelming need to apologize to Greg without anything reciprocal from him, because this feels dangerously close to a sexist “oh look at this crazy unreasonable woman expecting her boyfriend to go do something she wants to do” kind of story, and the show’s usually better than that.

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Huh, I had sort of put the idea that Rebecca could end up with Josh on the back burner, but that was an interesting scene between the two of them. Unlike Nathaniel, she actually kissed Josh -- and Josh sort of looked into it before he realized Rebecca wasn't exactly in the "able to give consent" head space. I've long maintained that in order for any of these existing relationships to be the one where Rebecca finds true happiness, we need to see the love interest's feelings as a developed character. Nathaniel is sort of the only one that is fulfilling that criteria right now, but this is the first time since Josh got Rebecca the mural that I feel like we have some sort of insight into Josh's potential feelings (or lack thereof) for Rebecca.

Is Josh just the reliable best friend/roommate or is he "save the best for last?" (your first is your last? something?) But I doubt that it's Greg, especially after this episode. I guess we'll find out.

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Greg is allowed to not like water parks, but if he agrees to go and still begrudges, that is asshole. Yes, yes, relationship high, wants to make her happy, she really really really wanted to go and made pouty faces, but that is when you act like a grown up person and say I don't like it, never will like it, and even loving the fact that we're back in a relationship and together won't make me like it. Once he goes, that's it. He can't be half-assed, going through the motions, a drag, or he's being a baby. He's a big boy.

I mean obviously, IMO, this episode is saying they are not that compatible. There was always the question of, if a non-bitter Greg, no longer stuck in West Covina, finally on track at his dream grad school, got back together with Rebecca, would it work? Did his grumpy and dour aspects stem from frustration? In this episode they are showing us he's that guy whether his life is on track or not on track. And I don't think people like Greg are unhappy at ALL. They are often, IMO, quite happy and healthy, but they are not well-matched with the Rebeccas of this world, who can make a party out of hanging out with Paula's kind of grumpy and obnoxious dad. AND it is not the job of the Rebeccas of this world to sort of be their partner's one stop shopping center for fun, and the only way their partner can access it.

I liked this episode but still feel the show can be sloppy linking things up. The story they SHOWED us prior to this episode was a Rebecca who was being healthy. She confessed to Greg about Marco. She accepted when Greg walked away. She was honest with Jason. When she and Greg started to get back together she pressed pause and explained to him she had to process the spiral she had just had. When Nathaniel asked her if she was happy, she gave a mature, one day at a time answer. In every way she behaved like a woman who was doing her homework, remaining mindful, and not falling into the traps of using relationships, emotions and love as a fix. I absolutely think CXG was making the point it's a different Rebecca this time.

Then because they wanted to make a different point in this episode, they reveal she was substituting a relationship high for therapy and meds. That is NOT what the show was showing us in prior episodes. The episodes themselves are well done, but connecting them is poorly done.

Did enjoy that Josh was allowed to use the word, "Hence" and that he knew immediately how many drinks she'd had.

Edited by DianeDobbler
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"I Hate Everything But You" worked well in several ways. Of course it was a spot-on homage to Bruce Springsteen, though I thought I detected some Meatloaf-flavored musical references as well. But it also advanced the plot while staying pretty true to "Greg." Just when you thought they'd exhausted all musical genres to parody, they come up with more. I'm going to miss this show after it ends, but fortunately I think most of those associated with it should have bright futures in lots of other stuff.

Edited by ahpny
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I was genuinely convinced they were just going to write off Rebecca's BPD treatment this season, so I'm glad to see the writers have her acknowledge that it is going to be a lifetime commitment to her mental and emotional health.

Really enjoyed Greg's song.

Paula's heart attack got me in the feels. A good friend of mine went through pretty much that exact scenario several years ago. Worked herself right into a heart attack without realizing it, and she has to be really conscientious of everything now. I still think she works too hard, but she takes care of herself much better. It's scary to know that it can just sneak up on you without warning like that.

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On 2/1/2019 at 11:48 PM, lavenderblue said:

Thiiiiiis is the Crazy Ex-Girlfriend I tune in for. ...

I came here just to say this! Wayyyyy better than last week.

Like most of you, I'm glad we got:

  • An update on Rebecca's treatment,
  • 3 songs!
  • A non-cliché story for Paula.

I like Greg, and even Greg and Rebecca together, but stuff like in this episode is why I don't think they would make it as a couple, long-term. Best case scenario for me is that Rebecca doesn't end up with any of these dudes.

Edited by Trini · Reason: double negative, aaarrrgghhh
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10 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

I liked this episode but still feel the show can be sloppy linking things up. The story they SHOWED us prior to this episode was a Rebecca who was being healthy. She confessed to Greg about Marco. She accepted when Greg walked away. She was honest with Jason. When she and Greg started to get back together she pressed pause and explained to him she had to process the spiral she had just had. When Nathaniel asked her if she was happy, she gave a mature, one day at a time answer. In every way she behaved like a woman who was doing her homework, remaining mindful, and not falling into the traps of using relationships, emotions and love as a fix. I absolutely think CXG was making the point it's a different Rebecca this time.

Then because they wanted to make a different point in this episode, they reveal she was substituting a relationship high for therapy and meds. That is NOT what the show was showing us in prior episodes. The episodes themselves are well done, but connecting them is poorly done.

100% agree with this! The problem they had was that they got Rebecca and Greg together at the end of an episode, followed up with an episode entirely from Nathanial's point of view, followed by this episode where Rebecca is suddenly backsliding. There should have been an episode in between to a) show us the development of Greg and Rebecca's relationship and b) imply to us that Rebecca was avoiding therapy. 

I don't 'get' Rebecca and Greg. To me Greg is an entirely new character, so it's a bit jarring to watch Rebecca get into a relationship with him with very minimal development. And a few lines in a previous episode where Paula or Valencia asked Rebecca "don't you have group" with Rebecca saying not today or avoiding the question would have set this episode up quite nicely. 

The pacing for this season has really been off to me, with some episodes being really slow and some quick, and certain storylines coming too early in the season. I would have thought that, as it's their last season, they would have put a lot more thought into it. At the moment it feels like they're making it up as they go along. 

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2 hours ago, doesntworkonwood said:

The problem they had was that they got Rebecca and Greg together at the end of an episode, followed up with an episode entirely from Nathanial's point of view, followed by this episode where Rebecca is suddenly backsliding. There should have been an episode in between to a) show us the development of Greg and Rebecca's relationship and b) imply to us that Rebecca was avoiding therapy.

I see no problem with this story structure. There's no drama or conflict in detailing Greg and Rebecca's few weeks of couple bliss, so they can keep that off-screen and do a concept episode on Nathanial instead.

Quote

Then because they wanted to make a different point in this episode, they reveal she was substituting a relationship high for therapy and meds. That is NOT what the show was showing us in prior episodes.

That that IS what they showed us, in that both the show and Bex focused completely on her relationships at the expense of her therapy. She was making all the right decisions in some aspects and just assumed that it would be enough.

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I feel really bad for Paula. She's had a really shitty ride over the last few years. Her marriage, job and home life was deeply unsatisfying leading to her become unhealthily obsessed with Rebecca, which in turn exacerbated the other problems. When she started to take stock of what would make her more genuinely happy and began to work a little on her marriage and start the hard work of making a career change she fell pregnant. After supporting her through her abortion her husband then turned around and had an affair. After working through that and getting her marriage to a better place, she was still having trouble with her children. As soon as she faced up to that and repaired her relationship with her sons the eldest moved to another continent. And now just as she is on the cusp of qualifying as a lawyer she has a heart attack.

Every single time Paula takes a big step forward she gets punched in the guts. Hopefully she'll recover from her heart attack and pass the Bar, but even if she does it will be marred. It's going to be really, really hard to establish a satisfying law career while not having a health relapse. Second heart attacks are really, really common in the year after a first heart attack. Paula genuinely needs to take it easy but her dreams for the next couple of decades of her life involve a lot of hard work. I think it's a really sad thing to have hanging over her as we head to the series end.

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"I like Greg, and even Greg and Rebecca together, but stuff like in this episode is why I don't think they wouldn't make it as a couple, long-term. Best case scenario for me is that Rebecca doesn't end up with any of these dudes."

still having trouble using the quote function. anyhoo... agreed that rebecca shouldn't end up with any of these guys. i would actually take it a step further and say that the show should end with rebecca realizing that before she's ready for a real relationship she must confront her issues head on -- something she must do on her own. 

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18 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

I dislike how Rebecca getting him to go is seen as though she held a gun to his head; the water park is something that has meaning for her, and Greg agrees to go without, as you note, telling her that he’s not going to put much if any effort into trying (like even going on the slides) once he gets there. Here, it almost feels like we’re supposed to accept Greg’s toxic level of extreme misanthropy as something Rebecca should just capitulate to and be like “oh, honey, I understand.  I’ll just go on all the slides myself so you can sit here and hate everybody and in the future we’ll just do the things that you want to do,” which strikes me as much a more unhealthy attitude than anything Rebecca’s done up to that point in the episode.  

He did all the capitulating -- she begged him to come to the waterpark because it was her dream date, and although they both acknowledged it wasn't his thing he agreed to go. And when she found out that he had no intention of going on the rides and told him how disappointing that was, and that she wouldn't be satisfied by his being fine with her going on the rides and telling him about it and his appearing to be happy to hear about it, he agreed to go on one with her. And when they waited in line for the ride, he didn't try to make her feel bad about his lack of pleasure in it -- they showed us his glum face to make the point to us that he really didn't like it, but it was clear that Rebecca was facing away from him and blissfully unaware. It was only when she got the photo and saw the expression that she hadn't seen while they were on the ride that she grasped how much he really didn't enjoy it.

It seems to me that he was doing his best to indulge her and was not trying to spoil her pleasure. Thinking that he can have his own facial expression during the ride when she isn't facing him seems reasonable. Once she saw the photo and was disappointed in it, what should he have done? Offered to go again and smile at the point where the photo is taken so that she can have her keepsake even though she would really know that he wasn't enjoying himself?

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loved this episode, especially the Paula health scare It was so real Rebecca and Paula discussing how hard it will be /is to change your lifestyle for good. I agree with those that said this episode shows Greg is not a good fit for Rebecca, he's the type to stay home and not socialize, and that's so not Rebecca. Opposites attract, but in the long run goals and interests need to be more of a match. I'm back to thinking she will end up with none of these 3 guys. I think there is too much history for her to get back together with Josh, Nathaniel is moving on (I think), and Greg, is well, Greg.

Oh, and I really liked the scenes with Rebecca and her therapist and then her sleeping on the bench to wait for Dr. Chin to get there in the morning. And I liked when she said -am I the first person to sleep on this bench and he was like -not even close.

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On 2/2/2019 at 8:35 AM, dubbel zout said:

I'm surprised none of her doctors had told Rebecca that there are a lot of antidepressants available and not all of them would turn her into a zombie. (Or maybe we saw that scene in an earlier season?) I don't blame Rebecca for being reluctant to take her meds because of the side effects, but a discussion with her docs could have cleared that up. 

....

I was thinking it might be the flu or an unplanned pregnancy (or menopause), so I, too, was glad it was something less clichéd. I was also glad her doctor immediately recognized the symptoms as a heart attack. Because the symptoms for women having heart attacks can be so different from men's—and the still-too-common belief that women don't have heart attacks—we aren't treated promptly and/or properly. And I loved his (paraphrased) "You can schedule your death" comment when Paula was resistant to getting to the cardiac unit ASAP.

Paula had better not die, is all I can say now.

I'm not opposed to the meds storyline here, and I'm not a mental health professional, but I was under the impression it is very common with BPD for meds to not actually really be very helpful at all. It's apparently one of the trickiest things to treat, so one the one hand, yes it's good if Rebecca is willing to take her doctors' advice and stick to a plan, that includes multiple treatments, but given all her trauma with medications in the past (even though she's clearly being asked to take different meds now) I wasn't immediately super convinced that pushing the pills angle were necessarily a good approach for this specific person.

I have been having a very rough week and I had this moment of "oh crap, it's the last season, they totally might kill Paula, oh no, oh no, oh no" so I was very glad she didn't die at least in this episode.

HEPP, y'all, Paula had all of it.

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I thought the writing very clearly indicated that it went beyond Rebecca just expecting Greg to have a good time because he agreed to go. The scene that stood out in particular for me was when she asked a passerby to take their picture. Greg agreed and went to pose but then Rebecca saw his pose and told him exactly how he needed to pose. I felt that she did that several times, steamrolled over whatever he said or thought. He couldn't just be there his way, happy with his diet coke and happy for her. He had to be happy the way she thought he should be. It annoyed me. I know people like that. My happy isn't good enough. I have to enjoy things the way they think I should or I'm no fun. He wasn't about to turn into another Greg (again) and he wasn't complaining. Greg can be an absolute downer if he so chooses; we have seen it before. And yet he wasn't. That is why I felt yes, the writing was meant to indicate that Rebecca overreacted. 

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On 2/2/2019 at 4:12 PM, bobbyjoe said:

I dislike how Rebecca getting him to go is seen as though she held a gun to his head; the water park is something that has meaning for her

I thought it was interesting that in the "previously on" clips, we saw the water park held meaning for her because she associated it with Josh.  He's the one who told her about it.  And it's likely because of Josh that she sees it as the "most romantic place in the world."  I also disagree that Greg put zero effort into it.  As he said, he went on rides with her.  He just didn't pretend it was the most fun thing ever.  Greg doesn't do "most fun thing" ever.  And that's the reason I probably identify with Greg. 

I agree with many that this was the best episode in a long time and I think it's because it's in this show's wheelhouse.  It was about Rebecca's struggle with her mental health. Since she was off her program, she let herself lose control which is a more entertaining Rebecca to watch.

8 hours ago, wonderwoman said:

i would actually take it a step further and say that the show should end with rebecca realizing that before she's ready for a real relationship she must confront her issues head on -- something she must do on her own. 

As I've said before, I go back and forth on this.  On one hand, it'd be a healthy choice for her to make in the short term.  But what message does the show want to send?  That there's no HEA for those with mental illness?  So I still think the show will end with a hint of something.  Maybe it won't be Greg.  Maybe it'll be someone random.  But in this episode, Josh knew immediately that three drinks was the limit for her Jewish self.  And he, of course, would have liked the water park.  So maybe they are going back that way.

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3 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

On one hand, it'd be a healthy choice for her to make in the short term.  But what message does the show want to send?  That there's no HEA for those with mental illness?

If it's Rebecca's choice not to be with someone and she's okay with it, I think that is a happy ending. It's all in how it's presented. 

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6 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

If it's Rebecca's choice not to be with someone and she's okay with it, I think that is a happy ending. It's all in how it's presented. 

I get that but I'm talking more globally since it's one of the few shows that deal with mental illness and romantic notions.  Make no mistake, I would be fine with her choosing to be alone. 

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14 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

On one hand, it'd be a healthy choice for her to make in the short term.  But what message does the show want to send?  That there's no HEA for those with mental illness? 

I disagree with the idea that "happily ever after" means she has to be paired up with someone.

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43 minutes ago, Trini said:

I disagree with the idea that "happily ever after" means she has to be paired up with someone.

I use HEA as short hand for finding a romantic partner she can spend her life with.  In other words, a woman with mental illness deserves the same romantic comedy ending as a woman who doesn't.

And no, I'm not saying that's universal or that everyone needs to be paired up.  Because it's true, they don't need to be. 

Edited by Irlandesa
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5 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I'm not opposed to the meds storyline here, and I'm not a mental health professional, but I was under the impression it is very common with BPD for meds to not actually really be very helpful at all. It's apparently one of the trickiest things to treat, so one the one hand, yes it's good if Rebecca is willing to take her doctors' advice and stick to a plan, that includes multiple treatments, but given all her trauma with medications in the past (even though she's clearly being asked to take different meds now) I wasn't immediately super convinced that pushing the pills angle were necessarily a good approach for this specific person.

I'm not an expert, but it seemed to me that Dr Akopian and especially Dr Shin were very explicit about the need to monitor and adjust the meds, and that that was part of regular maintenance and upkeep. No silver bullet, no promise that it would be easy.

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5 hours ago, theatremouse said:

HEPP, y'all, Paula had all of it.

Yes! I thought exactly the same thing. I've seen that Rosie O'Donnell stand up special where she talks about her heart attack a couple of times and when Paula was in the doctor's office, I ran through Rosie's HEPPP checklist (hot, exhausted, pain, pale, puke) -- Paula ticked every box. It's a useful acronym to remember.

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 I Hate Everything But You really resonated with me, and I’m going to make it the new song i sing to my dog, but maybe fiddle with the lyrics so it covers more of my top-hated things. 

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I liked New Greg's Bruce Springsteen number. Though it really brought it home that he's not very physically impressive. It's not that he's unattractive... I think I've just gotten used to how tall Nathaniel is and how muscular Josh is (though it's hard to get totally used to his body in season 4. He's getting into bodybuilder territory with those veins popping, almost like he's dehydrated. Santino isn't the tallest but his version of Greg had a presence. Watching this song I kept being reminded of Darren Criss in Glee. Blaine was not an imposing character.

Drunk Rebecca was great. I didn't love the song but her styling and overall look were fierce. And her acting was really fantastic when she went to Nathaniel's apartment. I totally bought that scene and I remember how much I liked manipulative Rebecca. I don't think it's just that I enjoyed the character behaving badly but I think Rachel is particularly good at acting the manipulative part of Rebecca's disorder and the genuine emotional stuff is more hit or miss.

I did not love the darkness song. It was a decent enough song but it just a little too far out of Rachel's comfortable range. I would have preferred if they lowered it or if they'd given a song in that key to an actor who could sing it properly.

The last scene with Dr. Shin was so perfect. They've been sleeping on that actor. His line readings and reactions were perfect. I wish we'd gotten more of him. Season 4 should have had more Dr. Shin, Dr. Akopian, and Father Brah. Maybe some White Josh too. Just all the voices of reason helping the characters through their struggles. I feel like they're giving us crumbs of progress instead of digging in and showing Rebecca (and some of the other characters) doing the hard work to fix their lives.

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I didn't like the first two songs this week. They felt very out of place and I didn't get what they were trying to go for. Especially the second song (I'm not sad). I'm a brit so I feel like I should have understood the reference, but I really didn't

I was similarly confused. It didn't sound like Lily Allen or Cher Lloyd or anyone I would immediately recognize. I assumed it was grime or trap or one of those other UK hip hop/rap genres I don't listen to.

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On 2/2/2019 at 7:20 PM, ahpny said:

"I Hate Everything But You" worked well in several ways. Of course it was a spot-on homage to Bruce Springsteen, though I thought I detected some Meatloaf-flavored musical references as well. But it also advanced the plot while staying pretty true to "Greg." Just when you thought they'd exhausted all musical genres to parody, they come up with more. I'm going to miss this show after it ends, but fortunately I think most of those associated with it should have bright futures in lots of other stuff.

I definitely thought it was Meatloaf-esque.  To me his voice sounded a little like Meatloaf in this song and the title "I Hate Everything But You" is sort of like "I Would Do Anything for Love (But I Won't Do That)."

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