S04.E09: Wiedersehen

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Quote

Jimmy and Kim unburden themselves, risking their relationship in the process. Nacho is forced to make the rounds with Lalo. Mike has cause to worry.

[MrWhyt]

oh Werner, poor sweet stupid dead Werner

[Primetimer]

Not all of them, but as Jimmy heads into his reinstatement hearing, Ziegler misses his wife, and Lalo relies on a prop, our EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP breaks down all the strategery.

View the full article

[benteen]

Those last 35-40 minutes were brilliant.

Jimmy said all the right things during his hearing but I felt he laid it on too thick.  I too kept expecting him to bring up Chuck but when he said his influence was American Samoa I knew he was sunk.  His blow-up at the board member was great and the fight between him and Kim, while brutal, was epic.  Jimmy definitely messed up there but Kim can't claim the moral high ground either.  She made the choice to cover for Jimmy a long time ago.  She engaged in highly unethical behavior that would easily get her disbarred last week with Huell and she can't justify her scheme in the cold opening either.  She likes to roll around in the mud too but convinces herself that she's "not that bad."  

Speaking of the opening, it was a good scene but again, I don't see how they'd pull off that scheme if it was really examined afterwards.

The actor playing Lalo, Tony Dalton, is a lot of fun in the role.

Ah, Werner, you really are an idiot.  Like how that whole scene played out at the end.  Looking forward to seeing the resolution.

[ChromaKelly]

Why can't they bring Werner's wife in for a visit? Hole her up in a hotel, don't let either know where they are going, let Werner have a visit. I thought for sure he had killed himself. He'll probably wish he did once he gets found.
It's excruciating waiting to find out how Kim makes her exit from Jimmy's life. Does she die? Leave him? Wind up in jail? 

[tennisgurl]

The second Jimmy gave a shout out to his correspondence college instead of Chuck, I knew it was all over for him. It seems like that question was specifically fishing for him to mention his brother, and when he didnt, they all made up their minds right there. Ouch. Really, he laid it on a bit too think in general, especially as he is already known as Slippin Jimmy to an extent, but it was the lack of Check mention that killed him. 

I keep waiting to see how Kim leaves Jimmy's life, its hard to say what happens. His yelling at Kim, who really has been ride or die for him, was cruel and unneeded, but what he said wasn't totally wrong. Kim has had a very play by the rules life, and messing around with the rules a bit with Jimmy really is her taking a walk on the wild side. That being said, she really has stuck with Jimmy, and does always support him trying to make his life better. Just, she also enjoys when he goes Slippin Jimmy as well, which certainly complicates things. 

Oh, Werner.

[aemom]

Ding!  The mystery of the bell is solved.

I don't think that Jimmy winds up waiting another year to be reinstated,  so I'm curious to see how this will play out. 

Auf wiedersehen Werner. You are a very dead man and Mike will have to be the one that kills you.

Edited to add: What's interesting is that Auf wiedersehen means Goodbye, and the episode title: Wiedersehen means Meet again. So I think they are foreshadowing Mike and Werner meeting up again.

Edited October 2, 2018 by AEMom
Difference in terms

[Ellaria]

Another visually stunning episode. Gilligan and his colleagues have a way of making the most mundane shots look unique and interesting. Loved Mike and Werner sitting on the couch with only their heads visible above the couch in front of them.

Speaking of Werner...I’ll extend a RIP a week in advance. Poor guy! Guess this is the other shoe finally dropping in the meth lab storyline. I’m tired of it and not the least bit interested. This was about Mike’s character arc and the choices he makes between dignity and ruthlessness. It really didn’t work for me.

The less I see of Hector Salamanca the better. At least we know how that bell came to be.

I’m getting concerned that the “when/how will Jimmy and Kim split” question will not be answered this season. Probably not surprising since everyone wants Rhea Seehorn in the show for as long as possible. Despite their shenanigans, they are a great couple. They have a deep bond with each other but I don’t think it’s love. I’m not sure that Jimmy is capable of it right now. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[peeayebee]

Do you all think that Werner plans to return to the job? I don't. Maybe he doesn't realize how brutal his employers are, so he will return, but I think he has gone back to Germany for good. I don't think he's going to be killed. Maybe this is wishful thinking.

What was going on with him when he was checking on the explosive wiring? Was he hearing things? I thought there was some kind of animal down there, but maybe this was in his head. I mean, I'm sure there wasn't an animal down there, but I didn't understand what kind of issue he was having.

I love how Gus interacts with people. A big smiling face one second, a death mask the next. I don't know the actor playing Lalo, but he's enjoyable. Seems like such a nice guy. :D

Oh Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy. I think the more he crushes down his feelings about Chuck, the more he becomes Saul.

I missed what it was Kim got with the blueprint switcheroo. A few more feet for a building? Was this what Kevin wanted?

[scenario]

Jimmy and the ethics panel are realistic but annoying to me. No outsider understands what goes on in a family. Brothers who hate each other are pretty common. Even brothers who work together. The panel expects and wants Jimmy to say nice things about Chuck.

But an ethics committee is putting a lawyer in a position where they either have to lie or air their families dirty laundry in order to get reinstated.  Lie and look like a liar or tell the truth about how much he hated his brother. But do it in a way that doesn't make him look worse.  Jimmy didn't want to say nice things about Chuck because he is still angry, whether or not he wants to admit it, and it probably would not come out right. 

Jimmy waited on his brother hands and foot for years. A brother who tried to keep him under his thumb since he was little. The last words his brother said to him were, "I never really liked you." In many ways, Chuck had the same personality as an abusive spouse.   Unlike an abusive spouse, he had good reasons for what he did but what he did still qualifies as abusive. 

To me the situation is like a wife who was beaten by her husband who was later killed in a road rage incident being forced to stand up and say what a wonderful person he was and sound convincing about it. 

[SailorGirl]

51 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

I thought for sure he had killed himself. 

I swear I say this every week in some form or another, but only Gilligan et al can make something as mundane as going down a flight of steps to check wiring fraught with tension.  (The Americans was very good at making mundane things fraught with tension as well.) 

I was thinking there was going to be a short or something and Werner was going to get electrocuted or the charge was going to inadvertently blow with him down there/on his way down there. Then when he took his helmet off and leaned against the rock dejectedly I thought he was going to do something to trigger the charge and commit suicide right there. But nope... he's committing suicide by escaping, knowing Mike will kill him when (not if) he catches up to him. . .  

[Quilt Fairy]

4 minutes ago, scenario said:

To me the situation is like a wife who was beaten by her husband who was later killed in a road rage incident being forced to stand up and say what a wonderful person he was and sound convincing about it. 

Jimmy and Chuck had a very complicated relationship.  There are some very nice things that Jimmy could say about Chuck that would be absolutely true: "Chuck's the reason I got into law", "He was my older brother, he looked out for me and I always looked up to him", etc.

[scenario]

2 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Jimmy and Chuck had a very complicated relationship.  There are some very nice things that Jimmy could say about Chuck that would be absolutely true: "Chuck's the reason I got into law", "He was my older brother, he looked out for me and I always looked up to him", etc.

But he hasn't resolved his anger about Chuck. If he tried to say them the words would probably stick in his throat. And if he said the truth that Chuck inspired him to be a lawyer because he wanted to prove to the old SOB that he could do it, It probably wouldn't help his case any. 

He always looked up to someone who told him a few days before he died that he never really liked Jimmy. When it comes to Chuck, I see Jimmy as someone whose inches from flying off the handle whenever Chuck's is mentioned but covering it with a thick layer of indifference. 

[ChromaKelly]

21 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

I swear I say this every week in some form or another, but only Gilligan et al can make something as mundane as going down a flight of steps to check wiring fraught with tension.  (The Americans was very good at making mundane things fraught with tension as well.) 

I was thinking there was going to be a short or something and Werner was going to get electrocuted or the charge was going to inadvertently blow with him down there/on his way down there. Then when he took his helmet off and leaned against the rock dejectedly I thought he was going to do something to trigger the charge and commit suicide right there. But nope... he's committing suicide by escaping, knowing Mike will kill him when (not if) he catches up to him. . .  

Same. I kept waiting for it. Or I thought maybe Mike had fucked with it because he had to get rid of Werner and this is how he was doing it. 

[LittleIggy]

I wondered if Werner had Parkinson’s with his hands shaking like that. Poor Werner. Run, Werner, run!

The review board were dicks for not reinstating Jimmy. Speaking as a former lawyer, if being insincere was a bar to practicing law, there wouldn’t be many lawyers.

Did anyone else get a craving for fried chicken because of Lalo’s glowing critique? ?

[100Proof]

Don't really get how that panel would care one wit whether or not Jimmy mentioned Chuck or is that town so tiny and incestuous that they all knew Chuck personally? Ya know... don't all hollywood actors know and hang out with each other? lol

Didn't care for Jimmy turning on a dime suddenly with Kim. That scene just looked like a weak excuse for 'it all to come out in the wash' and move the plot forward.

Otherwise, good show as usual.

 

42 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

but only Gilligan et al can make something as mundane as going down a flight of steps to check wiring fraught with tension
the charge was going to inadvertently blow with him down there/on his way down there.

Edited October 2, 2018 by 100Proof

[SailorGirl]

I'm rewatching it now, and Jimmy's interview with the review board is on.

He is the most sincere I think we've ever seen him -- he's honest about how and why he got in to law (without mentioning Chuck by name), that he could only get in to American Samoa (go LandCrabs!) but it was still worth it, that he quit several times, but then when he finally got to work with clients it was all worth it.

The only thing he didn't do is mention his brother? And that makes him insincere? Are all of the review board's families so picture perfect and everyone gets along and everyone loves each other and supports each other? I don't think so. That's some bullshit that he got denied because of that. Not all families are Norman Rockwell paintings, and having a shitty family doesn't mean you aren't sincere about your job/profession. 

Jimmy rarely shows his true self and when he does -- when it really mattered -- he got screwed over. Again. Just another factor driving him to become Saul -- as he said, "he did everything right" and he still got denied. You get kicked like that enough in life -- no matter how often you try to play by the rules and still get nowhere -- at some point, the consideration of and/or probability of breaking bad is high. At some point, you just finally say "fuck it -- I'm done trying to do things the right way" -- and you become one of the assholes who always seem to succeed while the good guy continues to get kicked.

Jimmy becoming full-on Saul is akin to death by a thousand small cuts. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by SailorGirl

[sempervivum]

I didn't buy the review board's rejection for 'insincerity' either. ! Also, isn't the ABA sort of like the AMA, where you basically have to be caught leaving a scalpel in a patient to be permanently kicked out as a doctor? 

Also didn't really buy Werner's apparent sudden failure of will. I can't recall his ever mentioning his wife before-now on a dime he can't live without her? 

[benteen]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

Jimmy and the ethics panel are realistic but annoying to me. No outsider understands what goes on in a family. Brothers who hate each other are pretty common. Even brothers who work together. The panel expects and wants Jimmy to say nice things about Chuck.

True.  But Chuck was a highly-respected member of the legal community in New Mexico.  I think there was a line last year where Jimmy says that half the lawyers in NM owe their career to Chuck.  So I think this weighed on the panels decision, which is completely unfair.  As pointed out, do they really expect lawyers to be honest?  That being said, I was surprised that someone like Jimmy, even dealing with his Chuck issues, wouldn't have at least realized that Chuck was going to have to be brought up (he can't forget that was the reason he got suspended in the first place).  Jimmy stating the University of American Samoa to end his hearing was total BS and they could smell that.

[TVFan17]

One of my favorite things on both this show and on Breaking Bad is how Gus can change the expression on his face at the drop of a hat -- from pleasant, friendly, helpful Los Pollos Hermanos boss to scary, tired-of-shenanigans, will-kill-you-if-you-test-him drug kingpin.    I just love that change in his facial expression so much!   He switches from welcoming and pleasant to chilling and annoyed in 2 seconds.   When someone irritates Gus, his face says everything.   I laughed out loud at the look he gave Nacho as soon as Lalo was not looking.

It's good to see that Lyle is still hanging in there with Gus.  Last season I wasn't sure if Lyle would survive, let alone stick around.  But there he is.

It was also good to see our long lost friend -- Hector's bell!  I wondered how the bell would enter his life.  Now we know it is a souvenir from one of his murders.   When Lalo pulled out the box, I wasn't sure what was going to be in it but I assumed it wouldn't be good.  I was relieved and surprised to see the bell.

Poor Werner.   He seems like a good man, but he made a huge mistake.   Mike is probably going to have to be the one to kill him.

[tennisgurl]

44 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Did anyone else get a craving for fried chicken because of Lalo’s glowing critique? ?

I got to go to the place where the Los Pollos Hermanos scenes were shot in BB, which is actually one of a tasty local chain called Twisters, and it was really good! It had great chicken, and it had the original Los Pollos sign on the wall, the booth where Walter met with Gus the most roped off where you can take pictures, and sells some cool BB merchandise. It made me hungry for Twisters! 

[dwmarch]

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

Same. I kept waiting for it. Or I thought maybe Mike had fucked with it because he had to get rid of Werner and this is how he was doing it. 

I thought Mike had rewired it because that was the last of the blasting to do and Kai was a pain in the ass the whole time so one bang and both problems are gone. But that wouldn't work because the crew wouldn't light the explosives (which had a fairly involved process to activate) off when there was a man down there. However, Werner didn't know that and thought that if they were going to kill anyone he could force the issue and get them to kill him first. When they didn't he realized he had some more time to plan an escape. And for what it's worth, Werner asked if he could leave and Mike said no. They both knew Werner wasn't asking for a weekend so he could go see his wife.

I think if Werner had any illusions about completing the job and getting out alive they were put to rest last week when he drunkenly drew out part of the project for some locals. Maybe before that happened he would have been okay but since he compromised the security of the whole project he knows he's toast. He just wants to get there on his own terms.

15 minutes ago, TVFan17 said:

It's good to see that Lyle is still hanging in there with Gus.  Last season I wasn't sure if Lyle would survive, let alone stick around.  But there he is.

I loved that scene! Little do these teenagers know who their boss really is! And he's so polite to them!

[PeterPirate]

Lalo is awesome.  But he's too articulate and controlled to be a Salamanca.  He must be adopted.  

A lawyer goes to a hearing and gives stock, repetitive answers, shows a lack of sincerity regarding his victim, and reveals his true, toxic nature when things don't go his way.  Where have I heard that before?  

I am still hoping Howard and ADA come back with a vengeance next week.  I just can't believe that plan regarding Huell worked out.

I'm really glad Kim and Jimmy didn't end the episode mad at each other.  Kim needs to go full Sith.  Always there are two.  

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

Jimmy and the ethics panel are realistic but annoying to me. No outsider understands what goes on in a family. Brothers who hate each other are pretty common. Even brothers who work together. The panel expects and wants Jimmy to say nice things about Chuck.

But an ethics committee is putting a lawyer in a position where they either have to lie or air their families dirty laundry in order to get reinstated.  Lie and look like a liar or tell the truth about how much he hated his brother. But do it in a way that doesn't make him look worse.  Jimmy didn't want to say nice things about Chuck because he is still angry, whether or not he wants to admit it, and it probably would not come out right.

Jimmy gave a great interview for someone who wants to be admitted to the bar.  He did not give a great interview for someone who'd like his license restored.

Whether Jimmy likes it or not, his complicated relationship with Chuck is at the center of both what led to his disbarment hearing and what ultimately earned him a simple suspension. He doesn't have the luxury of ignoring Chuck in that hearing.  He convinced them he loved the law and being a lawyer.  What he failed to convince them, by ignoring Chuck, is why he won't mess up again.

I really felt Gilligan's influence in this episode, especially with the lab shots when they were looking for poor, doomed Werner.  I loved the look of that and the music used Just great. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Irlandesa

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Time flies for me while absorbing this show like no other thing.  Given how slow the pacing of the various arcs has been is testament to the genius of VG.

To that end...my instant reaction to understanding that Jimmy was denied was joy that somehow, Gilligan discovered a way to buy another year of BCS!  If we later learn that there was a big, fat, Howard rat putting the thumbs of the committee's scale, I will not be shocked.  Without some kind of outside interference, I really do not get why such a committee would have refused Jimmy.  As others have mentioned - it takes a lot to block a lawyer from practicing.  

I'm wondering if Mike's security guys who missed Werner's escape might could be in major trouble.  At some point, Werner would have been shown on camera as leaving his trailer, if only briefly before he managed to laser the camera.  This is especially true when the entire place would be free of any awake humans.    

It really is tragic that for Kim, it is not enough to be an extremely gifted corporate lawyer and negotiator.  

I originally thought Werner was going to commit suicide in the trailer after the phone call.   His earlier terror demonstrated he is not the man he was and that decline was upon him.  Emotionally, he was at wits end.  I was thinking that he would trust Mike to ensure that his wife got whatever monies were due.  Instead, it appears we are getting suicide by Mike.  Given how crushed Werner appeared to me, I have no trouble buying that he would make such a choice - with an outside chance of actually making it home.  His whole world, basically, was collapsed.

The provenance of Hector's bell was a sublime touch.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Lonesome Rhodes

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, AEMom said:

I don't think that Jimmy winds up waiting another year to be reinstated,  so I'm curious to see how this will play out. 

Kim talked about appealing. It seems a reason to appeal would be that Jimmy still hasn't processed his grief over the loss of Chuck, and that it would be too painful for him to mention Chuck in that setting—that he didn't feel right invoking the name of Chuck for his own benefit.

 

 

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I’m getting concerned that the “when/how will Jimmy and Kim split” question will not be answered this season. Probably not surprising since everyone wants Rhea Seehorn in the show for as long as possible. Despite their shenanigans, they are a great couple. They have a deep bond with each other but I don’t think it’s love. I’m not sure that Jimmy is capable of it right now

Yeah. Although they did set up a possible separation in this episode, Kim was quick to repair it. Kim dying of cancer seems more likely to me, but that's probably just me projecting. I could see a repeat of this episode's confrontation with Kim finally walking too.

 

 

23 minutes ago, TVFan17 said:

It was also good to see our long lost friend -- Hector's bell!  I wondered how the bell would enter his life.  Now we know it is a souvenir from one of his murders

Specifically, the bell was what was left in the charred ruins of a man's life who had dared to get on Hector's wrong side (not that Hector has a good side). How fitting that eventually 

Spoiler

Hector, his chair, and his bell are blown to fiery bits, along with Gus.

 

 

1 minute ago, PeterPirate said:

A lawyer goes to a hearing and gives stock, repetitive answers, shows a lack of sincerity regarding his victim, and reveals his true, toxic nature when things don't go his way.  Where have I heard that before?

Heh. A drama student should start writing a thesis right now comparing the twin-like similarities of these examples from life and art produced by our society at this moment.

 

About the disconnected wire that Werner repaired: Was that Kai's doing?

[scenario]

13 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Jimmy gave a great interview for someone who wants to be admitted to the bar.  He did not give a great interview for someone who'd like his license restored.

Whether Jimmy likes it or not, his complicated relationship with Chuck is at the center of both what led to his disbarment hearing and what ultimately earned him a simple suspension. He doesn't have the luxury of ignoring Chuck in that hearing.  He convinced them he loved the law and being a lawyer.  What he failed to convince them, by ignoring Chuck, is why he won't mess up again.

I really felt Gilligan's influence in this episode, especially with the lab shots when they were looking for poor, doomed Werner.  I loved the look of that and the music used Just great. 

I look at Chuck and Jimmy like a couple who went through a very bitter divorce but they went to great lengths to look like they are still friends.

One gets their license suspended because they did something in a fit of anger and then shortly after the other spouse died. The whole topic is an open wound that hasn't healed. They can't talk nice about the other spouse.

I think Jimmy is going to throw Chuck under the bus. Ruin his reputation. Make him look like an evil manipulative asshole whose been trying to destroy Jimmy since he was a kid. It started when Chuck stole money from their parents to go to law school and put their dads company out of business. It just got worse from there. He lived his life in fear of Chuck since they were kids and he's still so terrified of him he can't even say his name. The reason he did what he did was to try to break free from an evil control freak. 

[thuganomics85]

DING!

Compared to the past penultimate episodes in previous seasons, I actually thought this was a little bit slower compared to the others, but those last thirty minutes sure did blow up.  I definitely thought Jimmy was doing a great job with the board, but as soon as he said that final answer and it was obvious the board member was waiting for him to bring up Chuck, I had a feeling it was going to turn on him.  I think it is realistic that Jimmy wouldn't even consider Chuck as his influence, but considering how tight-nit the lawyers are, apparently, it was going to bite him.  I also wonder if answer with the University of Samoa just felt too cheap to them.  I was actually wondering if he was going to say Kim and I wonder if that could have played better.  Either way, I doubt he's going to wait another year, so I have to think his next movie will get him reinstated somehow, but under, yep, a "different name."

The fight between Jimmy and Kim was brutal.  Excellent acting as always from Bob Odenkirk and Rhea Seehorn.  But instead of breaking up, it seems to have made them stronger?  I'm really surprised, because I thought it was eventually going to end with him pushing her away, but I wonder if this is all leading to her going to the dark side with him.  Even now, I feel like she's loosely grasping at straws by claiming there is a "line" she can't see herself crossing with him, because she's already pulling off cons and heists all for selfish gain and not out of a sense of trying to protect Jimmy or her clients.

Oh, damn, Werner has flown the coop.  He is so dead and I have to imagine it will be Mike who does it, because that is the only way I can see this not causing a major tiff between Mike and Gus.

Speaking of Gus, I love the moments when he seems to truly be annoyed that someone is interrupting his legal business for all of this drug-related posturing.  Just let the man run his damn chicken joint, people!  Also loved Nacho's "I can't believe I'm stuck in the middle of this!" looks.

I could definitely tell Vince Gilligan himself was behind the camera for this one.

Can't believe it will be finale time next week. 

DING DING!!

Edited October 2, 2018 by thuganomics85

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, 100Proof said:

Don't really get how that panel would care one wit whether or not Jimmy mentioned Chuck or is that town so tiny and incestuous that they all knew Chuck personally? Ya know... don't all hollywood actors know and hang out with each other? lol

Didn't care for Jimmy turning on a dime suddenly with Kim. That scene just looked like a weak excuse for 'it all to come out in the wash' and move the plot forward.

Otherwise, good show as usual.

 

I don't understand why the panel would care one wit whether or not Jimmy was sincere. What does sincerity have to do with practicing law anyway?

Did I see the words on the big rock correctly? It looked like someone had written "Auf Wiedersehen" on it.

[Bannon]

Werner's been showing strain from his very profound loneliness for a while now; that's what the blabbing to the strangers in a bar was about. He's also extremely intelligent, even if that loneliness has driven him to recklessness. If Werner wanted to get out, he was going to find a way, even if for just a while. I first thought he was having a heart attack, during the  blasting, then later I thought he'd killed himself.  Good writing to have him, and not Kai, be the problem dog.

I think the fight between Jimmy and Kim was just another major step on the journey to these two acknowledging that they can't live their lives together. Really, really, sad, since they sincerely love each other, and I now think the parting will be mutual. Really curious to see how Howard fits back into the story.

I hope Nacho's been skimming enough for the past year to make an escape, with his dad in tow.

[Bannon]

Oh, and you need a heart of stone to not be amused by a  Bar Association reinstatement panel docking Jimmy points for lacking sincerity,   by failing to mutter empty bromides about his brother

[Armchair Critic]

Kim said Jimmy is always down (yes he seems to always be getting into trouble), but [/puts on flameproof suit] Kim has resting bitch face and is an unhappy person. She doesn't seem like a fun person so Jimmy probably does add excitement to her life (whether it's good or bad).

I noticed Werner look at the cameras and was leery he was suicidal, but I didn't think about him escaping like that. I am rooting for him to get away but I don't think he will be that lucky.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Speaking of Gus, I love the moments when he seems to truly be annoyed that someone is interrupting his legal business for all of this drug-related posturing.  Just let the man run his damn chicken joint, people!  Also loved Nacho's "I can't believe I'm stuck in the middle of this!" looks.

Oh yes,  I could watch an entire show about Gus, Lyle and the chicken biz.  Don't think for one minute that Lalo isn't going to have to pay a high price for littering in Gus's parking lot!

For some reason I hate Lalo more than any character in the entire BB/BCS play list.  When he told Nacho to go get some jello I wanted Nacho to kill him right there in front of the seniors.

While I'm hating,  that prissy judgmental ethics committee calling Jimmy insincere for not airing his family laundry for them made me stabby.

Good times!  I also hate that it's almost over.

[ShadowFacts]

50 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Oh yes,  I could watch an entire show about Gus, Lyle and the chicken biz.  Don't think for one minute that Lalo isn't going to have to pay a high price for littering in Gus's parking lot!

For some reason I hate Lalo more than any character in the entire BB/BCS play list.  When he told Nacho to go get some jello I wanted Nacho to kill him right there in front of the seniors.

While I'm hating,  that prissy judgmental ethics committee calling Jimmy insincere for not airing his family laundry for them made me stabby.

Good times!  I also hate that it's almost over.

Lalo is not doing anything but annoy me, too.  A bit odd they introduce a big bad new Salamanca at the end of the season, and it's like they deliberately want to make him the total opposite of Hector, Tuco and the cousins.  Kind of hokey to me.

I actually bought that the bar people would be predisposed to not want Jimmy back.  Chuck was a towering figure in Albuquerque and for Jimmy not to have the sense to at least mention him would not play well.  The man died in a fire shortly after the bar hearing.  I also thought Jimmy was not prepared for that last question and gave a ridiculous response aside from the lack of Chuck reference.  The photography, lighting, etc. even made Jimmy look unappealing, and for that matter, Kim was looking pretty hard throughout the episode, too.  They are descending into co-dependency and it shows. 

[JFParnell]

Well, now. There it is. That ep picked up steam, didn't it? I didn't realize it was another of those 1-hr ... PLUS MORE! ... episodes, and then more things kept happening.

8 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

oh Werner, poor sweet stupid dead Werner

LOL! Perfectly stated. Too funny. He'll be the Gale Boetticher of BCS. We haven't seen Mike fully "turn" down the darkest path yet, have we? I've been as curious about that as I have been for Jimmy. Maybe Mike whacks PSSD Werner, and then the remorse -- he does/did like the guy -- sends him to the (mostly; there's still Kaylee) dark side once and for all?

Now don't hate me ... !! ...  but ... I have to say I just didn't give a rip about the origin story of Hector's bell. I'm sitting there thinking, "C'mon! Penultimate episode -- time's a wastin'! -- and we're gonna watch Hector hunched over and drooling for like 9 minutes??!" Raise your hand if you were never all that curious about How Hector Got His Bell.  :)

[OK, sorry; that was mean. Now that's out of my system!]

Otherwise loved it. Werner's desperation didn't seem all that forced to me -- he was showing signs of cracks in his armor in prior eps. But he's clearly not thought this through. Mike is trouble enough, but the poor man has NO idea how supremely pissed Mike's BOSS, the Chilean, is going to be.

Jimmy's blow-up after the board rejection got the pulse pounding and while his and Kim's scene was well done, etc., Jimmy's accusations felt a teeny TINY bit forced and convenient. Could be I'm being too picky! Or maybe I just don't like seeing them fight :) I wonder, and hope, Howard will somehow be involved in getting Jimmy's appeal rushed along -- IF that appeal even happens this season. And hope it does: They are running out of time to let Saul take charge.

Besides his Dad, does Nacho have any allies at all? I wonder if he makes it to season 5.

Can't believe we're almost finished again. Bleh.

[Bryce Lynch]

I thought the board made the totally right decision, for the totally wrong reasons.

Based upon what they knew, Jimmy should have been reinstated. As far as they know, he was suspended, not for an act of dishonesty, but a crime of passion, with significant provocation, as part of a complicated family dispute, with his mentally ill brother.

To their knowledge, he has been a model citizen, during his suspension, with glowing recommendations from his employer and probation officer. 

Of course, we know that he actually did commit the Mesa Verde fraud, which should have gotten him permanently disbarred.

We also know that during the suspension, he has committed grand larceny, slip and fall fraud, and, committed a fraud on the court, has associated with known felons, marketed burner phones to criminals, and done a lot of other unethical things.  

He has no business being a lawyer again, ever.  But, the board rejected him based upon subjective feelings, not facts.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

Oh, and you need a heart of stone to not be amused by a  Bar Association reinstatement panel docking Jimmy points for lacking sincerity,   by failing to mutter empty bromides about his brother

Yeah, not praising Chuck, was the most sincere part of the interview, in which he displayed a lot of other insincerity.

His "no excuses" talk was appropriate, but clearly not sincere as was his promise to never do it again.  He should have acknowledged the stress and hurt that led him to break into Chuck's house and destroy the tape and then say that it was no excuse.  That would have come off as more sincere.

His citing the law journal and quoting Scalia about the right to confront witnesses was great, but he layed it on kind of thick and probably came of as insincere there, as well.  Kim or Chuck saying the same thing would have been sincere, but Jimmy can't really pull of the case law junkie act.  

[Bannon]

30 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

 

Jimmy's blow-up after the board rejection got the pulse pounding and while his and Kim's scene was well done, etc., Jimmy's accusations felt a teeny TINY bit forced and convenient. Could be I'm being too picky! Or maybe I just don't like seeing them fight :) I wonder, and hope, Howard will somehow be involved in getting Jimmy's appeal rushed along -- IF that appeal even happens this season. And hope it does: They are running out of time to let Saul take charge.

 

Jimmy has completely internalized all the negative stuff Chuck said about him, to his face, for years. To the point that he thinks it is possible that the one person who really, sincerely, loves him, who really sees his positive attributes, and forgives his negative attributes, holds him in as much secret contempt that Chuck did much more openly. It's really sad.

[Pike Ludwell]

Jimmy did very well and acted responsibly in the interview, until the last question. His answer was idiotic and a change in character from the reasoned responses earlier. American Samoa U is what inspired him? "Go Land Crabs?" Forget not mentioning Chuck.  There were a thousand easy, better responses than this. This seemed flippant. I think Jimmy has a subconscious need to sabotage himself.  He can do things quite well and then he loses it and does something completely idiotic like this.

[ShadowFacts]

45 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

To their knowledge, he has been a model citizen, during his suspension, with glowing recommendations from his employer and probation officer.

If that were all that was needed to be reinstated, there would be no need for a face-to-face interview.  They need to be able to ask questions and assess his character.  I would have thought he was pandering or b.s.'ing in some of his answers and lacking in his last answer, and still probably give him the benefit of the doubt if I were on that panel.  But in reality, they called him out for what he was, insincere.  He's often insincere and they pegged him right.  They might think they have a wide berth in deciding someone is unfit for reinstatement. 

 

18 minutes ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

Jimmy did very well and acted responsibly in the interview, until the last question. His answer was idiotic and a change in character from the reasoned responses earlier. American Samoa U is what inspired him? "Go Land Crabs?" Forget not mentioning Chuck.  There were a thousand easy, better responses than this. This seemed flippant. I think Jimmy has a subconscious need to sabotage himself.  He can do things quite well and then he loses it and does something completely idiotic like this.

Agreed, he didn't have an answer prepared for that at all and winged it all wrong.  He can usually act on his feet better than that, so there could be some self-loathing at play. 

[Bryce Lynch]

52 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Jimmy has completely internalized all the negative stuff Chuck said about him, to his face, for years. To the point that he thinks it is possible that the one person who really, sincerely, loves him, who really sees his positive attributes, and forgives his negative attributes, holds him in as much secret contempt that Chuck did much more openly. It's really sad.

I don't think Chuck typically said things about Jimmy to his face.  Quite the opposite, for the most part he held his negative opinions about Jimmy in or told them to other people, not Jimmy.

He pretended to be happy and proud when Jimmy told him he passed the bar and pretended to be upset that "Howard" nixed him being an attorney at HHM.  He encouraged Jimmy in his solo law practice, though secretly disapproving, and telling him that Howard didn't want him using the McGill name in the name of his practice.    

When he came to dinner, he apologized to Rebecca in advance and called Jimmy "an acquired taste", but didn't say anything negative to his face.

Is wan't until Jimmy figured out that Chuck has shut him out of HHM and he confronted him, that Chuck let his feelings be known with the "chimp with a machine gun" speech.  

As their feud escalated, especially after Mesa Verde, Chuck became more open about his feelings, capped off by his final "You never mattered that much to me."  But, through most of their lives Chuck did not knock Jimmy, to his face.   

[benteen]

1 hour ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

Jimmy did very well and acted responsibly in the interview, until the last question. His answer was idiotic and a change in character from the reasoned responses earlier. American Samoa U is what inspired him? "Go Land Crabs?" Forget not mentioning Chuck.  There were a thousand easy, better responses than this. This seemed flippant. I think Jimmy has a subconscious need to sabotage himself.  He can do things quite well and then he loses it and does something completely idiotic like this.

I thought the American Samoa U thing was what sunk him.  THAT would have been the time to have brought up Chuck, even if he didn't mean it.

On the subject of Chuck's reputation with the board, I checked over that episode from last season where Jimmy is brought before that meditation session.  It's noted that Chuck knew all the prosecutors in the Albuquerque DA so they had to bring in a DA from outside the city named Kyra Hay.  Though she didn't know Chuck, she was more than familiar with him and was pretty much treating it like an honor to meet him.  She was completely on his side during this whole matter.  After Jimmy accepted the PPD agreement to avoid jail time, Hay insisted that Jimmy apologize to Chuck, which in my opinion wasn't her place to do.  Because as noted, family relationships can be complicated.  But to me, if gives you an idea on what the board's mindset might have been in turning down Jimmy. 

Everyone in the legal community had great admiration for Chuck and for his legal prowess but they never saw the real Chuck.  Chuck was an arrogant elitist who could treat people terribly, especially those who were beneath him.  We don't know the full details on why his marriage fell apart but it's very likely he was the one who wrecked it.  He manufactured a medical condition because he couldn't deal with Jimmy being a lawyer, refused to seek help on it for a long time, make sure everyone else had to bend over backwards to accommodate his "condition" and when it Howard finally confronted him about it, he threated to take Howard to court and destroy his law firm.  I think Chuck was ultimately right about Jimmy but he certainly didn't do much to help the situation.

I was surprised to see Kim and Jimmy patch things up after that fight too.  But it was clearly the beginning of the end of their relationship.  Jimmy was totally wrong to treat Kim the way he did but Kim doesn't have much of a moral high ground to stand out.

It was cool seeing Lyle again.  It didn't surprise me to see that he stayed.  He seemed like a Mr. Fring loyalist last season.

Edited October 2, 2018 by benteen

[MisterBluxom]

Re Icemiser's post above, when a lawyer suffers some terrible personal pain involving the death of a family member, it seems to me that if they choose to keep that to themselves - or they just don't know how to talk about it due to overwhelming pain, nobody has the right to try to force them to open up their terrible pain and suffering!

That is just cruel and unusual punishment. If someone cannot be compelled to testify against themselves in a trial, then how the *bleep* can anyone have any right to force them to endure unnecessary self-inflicted punishment?

P.S. I must apologize in that I have no idea how the two words "compellent" "compulsion" go together or what that phrase means.  I just remember a great episode from The Andy Griffith show where Barney was complaining about a "compelment compulsion" or something that sounded a lot like that.

If any of you would care to help me make sense of this, you would be most welcome. After all, should we all be forced to endure personal compellent compulsions?

Edited October 2, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think Werner is necessarily a dead man,  Mike sympathizes with him.  The project still needs o be completed, so Werner is still needed.  Complications with any project can happen, I don't think Werner leaving a "how to" list in order to complete the project is necessarily enough to complete the project. 

I don't have a problem with Jimmy not talking about Chuck.   I get the feeling that at least a couple of the people on the committee has spent too much time watching Dr. Phil.    

Jimmy and Chuck never did get along with each other very well, it wouldn't be the first time that siblings didn't get along with each other.

I'm not so sure Werner will be killed, either.  I could definitely see it happening, but I could also see Mike covering for him, or letting him escape and either lying to Gus about killing him or pissing Gus off.   The writers seem to be playing with us more this season than in any other season of BB or BCS and letting our imaginations run wild, then subverting our expectations.   

[Bryce Lynch]

Kim and Jimmy's scam in the beginning was sinking pretty low for Kim, IMO.  While, it was pretty much a victimless crime, as nobody will likely be harmed by Kevin's more attractive branch being built, she committed fraud and put the clerk's job and pension in jeopardy.  

It was pretty low for her to play the fake, single mother card, to play on the woman's sympathies.  I especially hate scams that play on people's kindness and generosity, as they discourage people from being kind and generous, and punish them for it.  If she had merely swapped out the plans, while the woman was distracted, I'd have less problem with it.  But, getting her to participate in the fraud by stamping the new set of plans was pretty sleazy.  

[SunnyBeBe]

The Bar review was another situation where Kim really did try to help Jimmy, but, he refused. Recall how she suggested that he see a therapist? Well, if Jimmy had seen one and said that he had worked through his issues and provided a letter from the therapist on his sincere efforts to deal with his issues, explore family dynamics, learn coping skills, deal with GRIEF of his brother's death and move forward, it might have helped.  The Bar likes recovery with professional guidance. But, I agree, that they should have approved him, anyway.  I'm not really buying that their issue was insincerity, though, that was stated, but, more likely poor insight.  To me, he didn't really display the insight necessary to really reflect on his indiscretions.  He talked about it, but, it was more like he wouldn't do it again. 

I wonder if DWMarch, as stated upthread is correct about Werner, really knowing that he was not going to make it home, after what happened last week and he was intent on getting out of there. It makes sense.  Why else leave after all the work invested without your money?  The sudden request for trip home didn't seem plausible, but, Mike seemed to think it was legit.  If not, he'd have put more tabs on the guy. 

The opening scene was for some small project, right? This was not a major thing, but, a small client, I take it. Still, such a big risk to take for something so insignificant.  It boggles the mind that Kim or Jimmy would go there.   

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Howard might be the key for Jimmy to get back his law license.  If Howard were to mention how much of a "pill" Chuck was to deal with, as well as Chuck's mental health issues, that might be enough for the committee to sympathize with Jimmy and reverse their decision.  It would also help if Howard were to mention how often Jimmy had to baby sit his adult brother.

At this point, I don't think there is much doubt that the tongue lashing that Jimmy gave Howard will probably clear the cobwebs out of Howard's head, resulting in Howard's business picking up.   I still contend that was an extremely dangerous move for Jimmy to make.  That talk that Jimmy had with Howard could have easily caused Howard to commit suicide.

I agree with all that, except the last part.  I can't imagine Jimmy's tough love pep talk leading to suicide, maybe murder, but not suicide. :)  It might have even prevented a suicide.  Howard was wallowing in self pity and letting his firm fall apart, and he might have been suicidal.  Jimmy might have woken him up.  

Edited October 2, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[ShadowFacts]

27 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Re Icemiser's post above, when a lawyer suffers some terrible personal pain involving the death of a family member, it seems to me that if they choose to keep that to themselves - or they just don't know how to talk about it due to overwhelming pain, nobody has the right to try to force them to open up their terrible pain and suffering!

That is just cruel and unusual punishment. If someone cannot be compelled to testify against themselves in a trial, then how the *bleep* can anyone have any right to force them to endure unnecessary self-inflicted punishment?

P.S. I must apologize in that I have no idea how the two words "compellent" "compulsion" go together or what that phrase means.  I just remember a great episode from The Andy Griffith show where Barney was complaining about a "compelment compulsion" or something that sounded a lot like that.

If any of you would care to help me make sense of this, you would be most welcome. After all, should we all be forced to endure personal compellent compulsions?

I didn't experience that scene as anybody trying to force or compel anything from Jimmy.  They may have had an expectation that he would at least make mention of Chuck.  And he could have in a very non-committal way that at least acknowledged his passing, but as he said to Kim, he never thinks about Chuck.  I think a prudent person would have thought of that in the context of Chuck having been prominent, and that he in fact was a witness in Jimmy's initial bar hearing.  The elephant in the room, if you will. 

[peeayebee]

8 hours ago, sempervivum said:

Also didn't really buy Werner's apparent sudden failure of will. I can't recall his ever mentioning his wife before-now on a dime he can't live without her? 

I'm pretty sure he did mention his wife in an earlier ep.

 

7 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

A lawyer goes to a hearing and gives stock, repetitive answers, shows a lack of sincerity regarding his victim, and reveals his true, toxic nature when things don't go his way.  Where have I heard that before?  

Hmmm. Let me think... ;)

 

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Yeah, not praising Chuck, was the most sincere part of the interview, in which he displayed a lot of other insincerity.

Talk about irony!

 

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

, he didn't have an answer prepared for that at all and winged it all wrong.  He can usually act on his feet better than that, so there could be some self-loathing at play. 

I don't think it was self-loathing. He told Kim he was thrown by the question about why the law, but I think being asked what inspired him is what really threw him. He's been suppressing any thoughts of Chuck for a long time, and the specter of his brother probably spooked him in a subconscious way.

Although it bothers me somewhat that the panel wanted him to mention Chuck, expected him to talk glowingly about him, I agree with their decision. Jimmy was obviously being flippant with his answer of University of American Samoa -- It doesn't even make any sense -- so it was clear that something was fishy. 

[ShadowFacts]

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

The opening scene was for some small project, right? This was not a major thing, but, a small client, I take it. Still, such a big risk to take for something so insignificant.  It boggles the mind that Kim or Jimmy would go there.   

No, it was for Mesa Verde, the change that Kevin wanted that Kim earlier agreed with Paige about not being feasible.  She switched the plans so that a delay wouldn't happen and Kevin would indeed get what he wanted.  I think. :)  And if that's what she was doing, what's up with that?  Trying to please big daddy?  I didn't get the subtext of that, beyond she was thrilled to be scamming.  And it was so tacky and beneath her, as Bryce Lynch said above.  That woman wasn't a stupid greedy person that Victor and Giselle enjoyed messing with. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by ShadowFacts