S01.E01: Pilot

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, I was wondering if John was  completely broke.  That might answer some questions. You know, like a Bernie Madoff situation.  

[ParadoxLost]

17 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, I was wondering if John was  completely broke.  That might answer some questions. You know, like a Bernie Madoff situation.  

This show doesn't seem like one that would use the same storyline of motivation twice.  So I think its a given John wasn't having an affair  and that he didn't commit suicide because he was depressed.

It think its almost a given that he lost his money, his friends money, and did something illegal to try to hold it together until he couldn't anymore and then killed himself.

I also think he knew about that affair and the call was to ask his so called friend to take care of his wife.

[KaveDweller]

I liked the episode, but it reminded my more of Desperate Housewives than This Is Us. One of a group of friends kills themselves and the others are left with the mystery of why, while dealing with their own relationship/family drama. Obviously more serious than Desperate Housewives, but that's what I kept thinking of. 

I thought Eddie's affair was going to be with the wife of Rome (is that his name?) and not John. That is an interesting twist, but not sure where they can go with it without making everyone hate them. 

I find it very interesting that John bought a restaurant for the woman who's a chef. That seems odd to do, especially because before that I was assuming he was broke and that was the reason for the suicide.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I find it very interesting that John bought a restaurant for the woman who's a chef. That seems odd to do, especially because before that I was assuming he was broke and that was the reason for the suicide.

 

Unless he was using the restaurant to hide money.  If it is money issues, that would make sense.

I am also perplexed about Eddie and Delilah's lack of guilt.  As I said earlier, Delilah's response to her husband's suicide doesn't really make sense to me and the knowledge that she was having his affair with his friend makes it even more nonsensical.  And I would think that Eddie, after eulogizing his friend, would at least feel somewhat guilty about the affair and would NOT go running to Delilah later that evening as if nothing had happened.  I know that Eddie is supposed to be the immature one, but I would think that would make the guilt worse for him.

[SunnyBeBe]

There are a lot of questions.  I hope we don't get stupid answers that really tick me off.  lol  

You really do have to have some gumption in order to sleep in your best friend's bed, with his wife and then give an Eulogy.  I mean, that is beyond low.  But, I sense that John really knew.  In fact, maybe, he was okay with it.  Maybe, he was super close to his assistant or maybe he had a lover.  And maybe, that folder had something about them having his blessing.  But, the assistant won't reveal it, because, she thinks they will blame themselves, if they know that he knew about them.  

Edited September 27, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[anniebird]

What is the problem so many of you have with Grace Park?

[Eeksquire]

I realize that the misimpression I am about to report is due entirely to my total lack of ability to remember anyone's name, but: at the reveal as to who the affair was with, I thought, for a moment, that Eddie (whose name I didn't remember) was going to be revealed to be having an affair with another man. When it turned out to be Jon's widow, I was like, "Well, this is going to be a lot less interesting."

Other than that, I liked the show a lot more than This Is Us - somehow a group of friends meeting in a stuck elevator is more realistic to me than the set up of Randall's adoption that kicked off the central story of TIU.  I mean, I'm still watching them both, but if I drop one, I suspect it will be TIU in favor of this.

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, anniebird said:

What is the problem so many of you have with Grace Park?

I don't know if its the problem everyone is having but this is the one I'm having

There is a sex cult called NXIVM that she is/was (?) a longstanding member of. She did a recruitment videos, etc. for them.

The leader and Allison Mack (from Smallville) have been arrested for branding women and other pretty horrific things.

Grace Park hasn't been arrested or accused of anything but she hasn't uttered a word against them.  All this came out between her time on H-50 and when she was cast on this show.

If you want to know more, head over the Smallville forum.

Edited September 28, 2018 by ParadoxLost

[Enigma X]

I absolutely love this show. Maybe it is because  I am a depression sufferer too.  Since I read this before watching, I was not shocked  by some of the revelations.  I am all in.

[Jillybean]

This whole show rang completely false to me. The relationships between the characters were not at all believable. 

Dudes don't have emotional conversations at hockey games and cry in one another's arms while everyone around them is oblivious. It just doesn't happen. I had NHL season tickets for 10 years. You hear every conversation around you and you know exactly what is going on with people sitting near you. That scene was ludicrous.

So Jon's wife had only one friend so a stranger (who looked all of 25) was invited to join them as she drank wine and giggled all evening after her husband's funeral...apparently having no cares about her dead husband because she was screwing one of his friends.  How cute. Where the hell were her kids?

Pretty sure this was going for the This Is Us crowd considering they even used the same song in their ads. But it isn't remotely in the same league.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Jillybean

[SgtMathias]

16 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

There is a sex cult called NXIVM that she is/was (?) a longstanding member of. She did a recruitment videos, etc. for them.

NXIVM is not a sex cult, it's a marketing company selling very expensive 'seminars' - i.e. it's a scam where rich people are convinced to pay thousands of dollars for stupid 'success programs' to improve their life. Some female members of NXIVM were also recruited for a rather extreme sex cult ran by NXIVM's founder, but NXIVM and the sex cult were not directly related.

Grace Park was a member of the former, but not the latter. She didn't do a "recruitment video", but several videotaped interviews with the company's founder, which were posted to the net for advertisement purposes. She tried to have these clips taken down in 2017, which suggests she's done with NXIVM. I'm not following this too closely, but what I heard about her involvement makes me question her intelligence more than her ethics.

As for the pilot: I did like most of the actors, especially James Roday - who I couldn't imagine in a role like this before, but he's spot on. A bit too much drama and mystery going on, but it was a pilot, so let's cut it some slack. I'll keep watching.

[ParadoxLost]

4 minutes ago, SgtMathias said:

NXIVM is not a sex cult, it's a marketing company selling very expensive 'seminars' - i.e. it's a scam where rich people are convinced to pay thousands of dollars for stupid 'success programs' to improve their life. Some female members of NXIVM were also recruited for a rather extreme sex cult ran by NXIVM's founder, but NXIVM and the sex cult were not directly related.

Grace Park was a member of the former, but not the latter. She didn't do a "recruitment video", but several videotaped interviews with the company's founder, which were posted to the net for advertisement purposes. She tried to have these clips taken down in 2017, which suggests she's done with NXIVM. I'm not following this too closely, but what I heard about her involvement makes me question her intelligence more than her ethics.

I will agree your characterization of it is more precise and accurate.  But the cult is operating within NXIVM, not separate from it.  

I totally disagree about her ethics.  She may be done with them and may have had no actual involvement in the worse parts of it but she is staying silent when a part of an organization she was involved in was funneling members into sexual slavery and child abuse.  At a minimum she should denounce it.  She hasn't.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's take discussion of the actors over to The Cast topic please. Thanks.

[bybrandy]

I was sure the affair was with the dead guy's wife from at least the funeral so no surprise there.  I felt like everybody was miserable and why would I want to spend more time with these people?   But I do like the actors so I'll give it another episode, or two. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Again.. it’s hard for me to like these characters. None of them seemed likable to me or didn’t even leave any impact(Ramos and his wife). The only one I found semi interesting was Maggie and then she made that speech about depression  at a funeral in front of a whole bunch of people she just met. Like yeah she’s a psychologist but still.. okay.

I do wonder if she will let it on that her cancer is back. My guess is no because this show already feels very cliche like. Im with others assuming Jon was having an affair with his assistant. There’s a small part wondering if he isn’t the father to one of his kids or something. 

[ChattyCathyLA]

There seems to be a lot of talk about Constance Zimmer.  Did I blink and miss her?  This show is not in her IMDb credits list.  Who did she play?

On 9/27/2018 at 9:37 AM, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yesterday, I ran my mouth off (in a friendly way) with a TIU fan and somehow committed to watching 1.5 seasons + 1 episode of this show.  I'm not sure I'm going to be able to pay up on that.

Don’t worry.  I predict it won’t last out the season.  

[HazelEyes4325]

21 minutes ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

There seems to be a lot of talk about Constance Zimmer.  Did I blink and miss her?  This show is not in her IMDb credits list.  Who did she play?

After Eddie makes his eulogy and sits back down, she is sitting right behind him.  She puts her hand on his shoulder and says something along the lines of "That was just beautiful."  It was very quick and definitely not hyperbolic to say that you could have blinked and missed her.

Edited September 28, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[ChattyCathyLA]

On 9/27/2018 at 12:28 PM, Grammy6 said:

I want to know more about Rome, and try to understand his depression.  I hope he gets help for it, that he can confide in his wife, and that she will understand.

He’s depressed because he wants to direct films and he’s been stuck doing commercials his whole career so far.  Keeping him and his wife in fine style in a beautiful home to boot!  First world problems ...

21 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

After Eddie makes his eulogy and sits back down, she is sitting right behind him.  She puts her hand on his shoulder and says something along the lines of "That was just beautiful."  It was very quick and definitely not hyperbolic to say that you could have blinked and missed her.

 

I guess I wasn’t paying attention.  I thought that was John’s wife!  LOL Thanks for filling me in! 

 

I liked this show better back in 2007, when it started Dylan McDermott and was called “Big Shots”.  It dealt with friendships between men, their wives, their affairs (and I believe one guy was in love with another’s wife), their success or lack of it, etc.  I KNEW I had seen this basic storyline before!!  Only THAT show was better because it wasn’t advertised as something it wasn’t.  I might have liked this show if they hadn’t tried to market it like a “new” This is Us.  Meh ... on second thought, no ...just no ...

 

On 9/27/2018 at 6:17 PM, ParadoxLost said:

This show doesn't seem like one that would use the same storyline of motivation twice.  So I think its a given John wasn't having an affair  and that he didn't commit suicide because he was depressed.

It think its almost a given that he lost his money, his friends money, and did something illegal to try to hold it together until he couldn't anymore and then killed himself.

I also think he knew about that affair and the call was to ask his so called friend to take care of his wife.

If he had lost all their money in some deal, I would imagine there would have been some dialogue along the lines of  “What’s gonna happen to our investment now?”.

But, buying the friend’s wife a restaurant is HIGHLY suspicious.

I knew Eddie’s lover was gonna turn out to be John’s wife from the get-go.  No doubt John did too.  

[HawaiiTVGuy]

10 hours ago, Empress1 said:

If for whatever reason, I agreed to go with dude after we hooked up and he didn't tell us where we were going, I'd have called a Lyft when we got to the church and he told me it was a funeral. If he didn't tell me until we burst in the doors late to the funeral, I'd stay because we'd already have made a scene showing up late (which would mortify me), but I'd have gone home the second it was over, cussed him out for putting me in that position, and not talked to him again. Might even find a new cancer support group. That's insane.

I felt bad for her too. It's why I hope they give her some depth. The "he always made me feel like part of the group" line made me think that she knows the rest of the group doesn't like her. And Eddie appears to be a decent guy now but I assume she was with him when he was drinking, which means he put her through some shit. I'd also guess she supported him financially when he was playing music. She may be a workaholic but she's keeping them afloat.

Yeah...it is interesting how Jon is the only one of the three that sees the relationship issues between Eddie and Katherine as two sided, and not solely Katherine's fault, which is how the other two guys see it.  That is because the other two only see it from Eddie's perspective while it is possible Jon saw things from Katherine's view as well.

Eddie was the screw up, who had an addiction problem and still lived in the past to his "Glory days" as some random band.  He never grew up, so Katherine needed to support the family financially because he sucks.  But of course he keeps blaming Katherine for emasculating him because she is the breadwinner and sells the story of how Katherine is somehow blocking his "genius."

[ElectricBoogaloo]

19 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

Eddie was the screw up, who had an addiction problem and still lived in the past to his "Glory days" as some random band.  He never grew up, so Katherine needed to support the family financially because he sucks.  But of course he keeps blaming Katherine for emasculating him because she is the breadwinner and sells the story of how Katherine is somehow blocking his "genius."

In the opening scene when he was on the phone talking about how he had to leave his wife TODAY and then cited the fact that Katherine would come home after work and want to order Indian takeout as one of the problems, I was like uhhhh, if that is the major reason you're leaving your wife and son then you need a serious reality check.

I know, I know, it's probably one of the "million little things" that added up to why he had an affair but my issue was what a stupid thing it was to complain about. If she wants Indian food and you don't, BE AN ADULT AND USE YOUR WORDS. Open your mouth and tell her you would rather eat something else. Here's another option: order takeout from two different places.

I'm sure that there are other issues in their marriage but it struck me as such a petty thing to bitch about (and easily fixable, especially in this day and age where you can get Caviar/Postmates/Doordash/UberEats to deliver pretty much anything, complaining that your wife wants to eat Indian food again makes you look like the jerk, not her.

21 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

After Eddie makes his eulogy and sits back down, she is sitting right behind him.  She puts her hand on his shoulder and says something along the lines of "That was just beautiful."  It was very quick and definitely not hyperbolic to say that you could have blinked and missed her.

 

 

21 hours ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

I guess I wasn’t paying attention.  I thought that was John’s wife!  LOL Thanks for filling me in! 

I did too!

On 9/27/2018 at 1:25 PM, seacliffsal said:

Like others, I watched due to the actors I really like (and have pretty much the same list as others).  What took me out of the story the most was the automatic and instantaneous inclusion of Maggie into the circle. 

Knowing now that Delilah was having an affair with Eddie, part of me thinks that she included Maggie as sort of a buffer. If it had been just Delilah and Regina, maybe Delilah thinks that Regina would have sensed something and started asking questions and figured out that she was having an affair. But having a new person would possibly keep things in the more superficial getting to know you kind of conversation.

On 9/27/2018 at 4:31 PM, krankydoodle said:

I don't think anyone's mentioned when Rome is about to take the pills, but can't bring himself to drink tap water after hearing the news report on Flint. I've been near the brink before and know my thinking was similarly disordered, so I liked that detail. I'm not a fan of the "everything happens for a reason" school of thinking, though, but may give it another few episodes to see where things go.

I liked how annoyed Rome was during that entire sequence leading up to taking the pills. First he was annoyed that the water pitcher was empty. Then he started getting water from the sink, only to hear about Flint on the news so despite the fact that he was about to kill himself, he couldn't make himself drink that water straight out of the tap so he had to refill the filtered pitcher. His level of exasperation was "Damn, I just want to get this over with and kill myself and I can't even get a damn drink of water to swallow these pills!"

On 9/27/2018 at 9:42 AM, HazelEyes4325 said:

It certainly seemed that way...as soon as she knew the code for his phone, I felt that IT WAS OH SO SUBTLY HINTED THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING THERE!!!

 

On 9/27/2018 at 12:02 PM, TheGreenWave said:

I sort of took this differently.  When a coworker of mine committed suicide earlier this year, her family and friends quizzed us coworkers on whether we noticed anything different about her in the months leading up to her suicide because we spend close to 10 hours a day at work with each other (we didn't.  we thought she was the same person she had been for the 8 years we had known her).  Similar to how Jon looked, at least superficially, happy, my coworker was also smart, pretty, had three great kids, and was good at her job.  We had no idea she was in that much pain.  I took Gary's question to the assistant as expressing frustration as in: "you spend every day working with him and even know his phone code and you didn't notice anything?!?!  How is that possible?!?"  Or perhaps I'm projecting what me and my coworkers felt when asked by my colleague's family and friends at her funeral on how we could spend that much time with her M-F and not notice anything was wrong....@Texasmom1970

 

On 9/27/2018 at 12:07 PM, chitowngirl said:

I didn’t read too much to the assistant knowing her boss’s passcode. I thought either A)It’s a work phone and she would have the code or B)She just noticed what the code is because the boss types it in a lot. That’s how my kids and I all know my husband’s code, we just see him punch it in all the time.

I didn't make any assumptions based on Ashley knowing the passcode on his phone either. When you work closely with people, you get to know a lot of things about them. I had a coworker who I used to go to lunch with all the time (probably three times a week for several years). You could have taken me to any restaurant within a ten mile radius and I could have ordered an entire meal for her (appetizer, entree, wine, dessert) without asking her a single question. I knew what she liked/disliked, which salad dressing she ordered, what condiments she asked for on the side, etc. I wasn't her assistant either. I was just exposed to that information so frequently that I knew those things without even thinking.

Similarly, Ashley seemed to be Jon's assistant exclusively (meaning it didn't seem like she was a general office assistant who worked for several people) so she probably knows all kinds of things about Jon that other people don't. Maybe he was the kind of boss who said, "I have a conference call scheduled for the next hour, so can you check my messages and see why Delilah called?"

Maybe Jon was having an affair with Ashley, but I don't think knowing the code on his phone is definitive proof of that.

[Duke2801]

It’s funny because the part about the Indian food is one of the few parts that rang true/realistic to me. Like, when you’re so done with another person that even the little mundane things they do start to piss you off. I really don’t think Indian takeout food was supposed to be a reason that he wanted to leave her; it was just a symptom of his overall dissatisfaction.

 

9 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

I realize that the misimpression I am about to report is due entirely to my total lack of ability to remember anyone's name, but: at the reveal as to who the affair was with, I thought, for a moment, that Eddie (whose name I didn't remember) was going to be revealed to be having an affair with another man. When it turned out to be Jon's widow, I was like, "Well, this is going to be a lot less interesting."

Other than that, I liked the show a lot more than This Is Us - somehow a group of friends meeting in a stuck elevator is more realistic to me than the set up of Randall's adoption that kicked off the central story of TIU.  I mean, I'm still watching them both, but if I drop one, I suspect it will be TIU in favor of this.

I thought for one brief moment that they were setting it up that Jon was the one who  that guy was in love with! I was like, ok show, you have my attention now. But, yeah, no. I was clearly very wrong. 

8 hours ago, Jillybean said:

This whole show rang completely false to me. The relationships between the characters were not at all believable. 

Dudes don't have emotional conversations at hockey games and cry in one another's arms while everyone around them is oblivious. It just doesn't happen. I had NHL season tickets for 10 years. You hear every conversation around you and you know exactly what is going on with people sitting near you. That scene was ludicrous.

So Jon's wife had only one friend so a stranger (who looked all of 25) was invited to join them as she drank wine and giggled all evening after her husband's funeral...apparently having no cares about her dead husband because she was screwing one of his friends.  How cute. Where the hell were her kids?

Pretty sure this was going for the This Is Us crowd considering they even used the same song in their ads. But it isn't remotely in the same league.

 

Thank you. That emotional, let’s talk about our deep feelings at a hockey game rang very false to me. Sorry no groups of men at a hockey game—or mostly anywhere else—don’t get deep like that with each other. The only time most men get deep is when a woman is more or less forcing them to. 

And yeah, pretty sure that on the evening of their relatively young fathers funeral, most sane woman wouldn’t leave their kids to their own devices to go off having an adventure with a girlfriend and... some rando woman. 

4 hours ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

There seems to be a lot of talk about Constance Zimmer.  Did I blink and miss her?  This show is not in her IMDb credits list.  Who did she play?

I’m glad you asked this because I totally missed that was her, too; and yes, totally thought she was the widow! 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Duke2801

[chitowngirl]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In the opening scene when he was on the phone talking about how he had to leave his wife TODAY and then cited the fact that Katherine would come home after work and want to order Indian takeout as one of the problems, I was like uhhhh, if that is the major reason you're leaving your wife and son then you need a serious reality check.

If you don’t like Indian take out here’s a thought-Cook something!!

[HazelEyes4325]

4 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

I’m glad you asked this because I totally missed that was her, too; and yes, totally thought she was the widow! 

 

Constance Zimmer and Stephanie Szortak do share some physical similarities and I don't think that was coincidental.  I may be too much in my own head about this (thank to the fact that, although I have complaints about this show, it is still light years above the other two non-comedy drama pilots I've watched this season and I my mind needs something non-anxiety inducing at the moment), but I do think this feeds into Eddie's feelings about Delilah not really being Eddie's feelings about Delilah, if it turns out that Zimmer's character is more prominent than her one line in this episode.

[NannyBails]

I have a few questions.  One is when John was on the phone bargaining with someone about the building, he mentioned something about "one space being rent free."   I assumed that was for the restaurant.   But if he was buying the building, wouldn't he be the one to decide which spaces were rent-free?  

Also, Eddie's excuse to not leave his wife already was he wanted to make sure his kid was okay.  Is something wrong with the kid or was that a general comment about caring about his child's general welfare?

[HazelEyes4325]

40 minutes ago, NannyBails said:

I have a few questions.  One is when John was on the phone bargaining with someone about the building, he mentioned something about "one space being rent free."   I assumed that was for the restaurant.   But if he was buying the building, wouldn't he be the one to decide which spaces were rent-free?  

Also, Eddie's excuse to not leave his wife already was he wanted to make sure his kid was okay.  Is something wrong with the kid or was that a general comment about caring about his child's general welfare?

 

I don't think anything is wrong with his child, I think he is just worried about how his leaving would (I'm being generous) impact his son or (I'm being realistic) hamper his access to his son.  

[Barb1959]

Talk about bad timing, a dear friend of mine committed suicide a few days ago.  Saddest thing ever.  It was really hard for me 

to watch this.  Couldn't watch all of it.  Maybe later.

[HazelEyes4325]

@Barb1959 I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your friend...

[SunnyBeBe]

22 hours ago, Jillybean said:

This whole show rang completely false to me. The relationships between the characters were not at all believable. 

Dudes don't have emotional conversations at hockey games and cry in one another's arms while everyone around them is oblivious. It just doesn't happen. I had NHL season tickets for 10 years. You hear every conversation around you and you know exactly what is going on with people sitting near you. That scene was ludicrous.

So Jon's wife had only one friend so a stranger (who looked all of 25) was invited to join them as she drank wine and giggled all evening after her husband's funeral...apparently having no cares about her dead husband because she was screwing one of his friends.  How cute. Where the hell were her kids?

Pretty sure this was going for the This Is Us crowd considering they even used the same song in their ads. But it isn't remotely in the same league.

You make some valid points.  I guess that for me, it was a trade off.  There were some things that I liked so much, that I can overcome some of the issues.  We'll see how that goes moving forward.  

The hockey scenes were a bit odd in that they were pouring their hearts out and no one around gave them much attention.  But, it was good dialogue, imo, so, I'll give them a pass on that.  I loved how they threw their arms around their friend.  

The widow hanging out like a girl's night out was odd too, but, I just assumed the kids were with grandparents and that widow lady wasn't as upset as she let on.  I mean, this death does solve one of her big problems......like her now being able to be with her lover.  Now, they must contend with lover's wife. lol

What did catch my attention as odd, was the behavior of Funeral Plus 1 lady when the ladies went with Widow to the empty building.  Funeral Plus 1 lady reaches in her bag and pulls out a bottle of red wine and 3 hefty wine glasses!  WTH?  She said she picked them up from the Widow's house.  Really?  Would a total stranger pack a wine care package to take on the road trip when she didn't even know where they were going?  And, so she was grabbing a strange lady's wine and glasses to celebrate when they arrived.....just odd.  

[Jillybean]

That was definitely Constance Zimmer. I recognized her instantly, and her name was in the end credits. What I couldn't figure out was why she had a throwaway, one-line part. If she were playing a main character, I'd be more interested.

[shinystar94]

20 hours ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

He’s depressed because he wants to direct films and he’s been stuck doing commercials his whole career so far.  Keeping him and his wife in fine style in a beautiful home to boot!  First world problems ...

 

This kind of response is exactly what makes people keep their depression to themselves. 

[Jeopardy15]

Delilah is not played by Constance Zimmer, but a French actress. She was in the short-lived show “Satisfaction”. 

[HazelEyes4325]

Correct.  But Constance Zimmer was in the show (and her shot was so quick that many thought she was Stephanie Szostak's character).  

Fun fact: Szostack went to my Alma Mater.  Go Tribe!

[DearEvette]

17 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I liked how annoyed Rome was during that entire sequence leading up to taking the pills. First he was annoyed that the water pitcher was empty. Then he started getting water from the sink, only to hear about Flint on the news so despite the fact that he was about to kill himself, he couldn't make himself drink that water straight out of the tap so he had to refill the filtered pitcher. His level of exasperation was "Damn, I just want to get this over with and kill myself and I can't even get a damn drink of water to swallow these pills!"

I thought this was an interesting contrast to Jon's demeanour during his suicide. 

Given the way the whole scene went, it felt like the subtext was that Rome's attempt at suicide wasn't at all resolute.  He seemed to be delaying it waiting for some intervention: taking the time to open the different pill bottles and spill them onto the counter so they disperse widely (it would have been more efficient to empty them into his hand straight from the bottle).  Waiting for the water to filter.  He was crying, nervous, trembling like he was really psyching himself up to do it.  With him, the scene read to me like it was something he felt he had to do because he had to  -- it would solve some problem. I wasn't getting a depression vibe from him.

Meanwhile Jon was relaxed, smiling, whealing a deal, charmingly told his assistant to take a long lunch  and -- just jumped.  Of the two, I could more easily buy that Jon was actually depressed.  With him, his scene read to me  of a man would was relieved that it was finally all gonna be over and he was setting things aright before he was done.

Whether the mystery of why he did it bears this our remains to be seen.  Also, I think whatever is going on with Rome is somehow linked with Jon.

Overall I liked it.  I think the marketing made it seem like a This Is Us, but the story/plot bears no resemblance.  Not even the tone does.  This felt darker.  I do like the mystery & questions being set up:  why did Jon kill himself?  What does the assistant know?  Why not give the wife the envelope with her name on it?  Why did he buy the restaurant? What is up with Rome?  How do all these relationships fit together.  If the show delivers on all the stuff bubbling under the surface I think it'll be great.  I also, mostly like the characters.

However, I rolled my eyes so hard at the manpain sharing at the Hockey game.  My god that scene was bad and uncomfortable and felt really fake.  And I can't believe that Boston Hockey fans would not be giving some major side eye to three men crying and hugging during a game when it isn't in response to their team winning the Stanley cup.

[shapeshifter]

So, that wasn't really David Giuntoli singing, was it?
And it wasn't really the daughter (Lizzy Greene) singing either was it?

 

On 9/27/2018 at 4:58 PM, chitowngirl said:

On 9/27/2018 at 3:08 PM, Duke2801 said:

  b) what kind of woman would willingly STAY in that awkward situation?? Like, the whole thing was just ridiculous and unrealistic. 

Seeing as she is a therapist that specializes in depression, I could see her wanting to stay for that reason. 

Plus her own cancer has come back, so she's likely feeling she's living on borrowed time and this may be a chance for her to do what she does best pro bono for some folks who need it. (Just wait til she finds out what Rome was doing when he got the call.) I just think her casting is not great. I guess they were going for fragile looking, but she looks young and fresh, which conveys better health than they were likely going for.

Speaking of cancer, I'm in the every-three-month test phase like Gary, and statistically have like a 20% chance of surviving 10 years (or maybe it's 5 years; I don't recall)--which is fine because my kids are grown, I'm not married, don't even have a pet (can't afford one), I can't afford to live much longer than 10 years anyway, and I've got chronic pain--but because of a number of other factors, I'll probably live another 20 years. I was ready to die when I was first diagnosed 2.5 years ago. So I might watch this sappy, not-my-kind-of-show show for that.

Plus, I watched too many seasons of Grimm just because David Giuntoli is so impossibly good looking, Romany Malco was great in Weeds, I stuck with Psych way too long because of James Roday's and Dule Hill's easy patter, was really disappointed that Ron Livingston's Defying Gravity only lasted one season, and not only was I an obsessed BSG fan, but my former coworker/work-daughter is such a dead ringer for Grace Park that she used to dress up like a cylon for Halloween.

 

On 9/27/2018 at 3:08 PM, Duke2801 said:

A lot of the dialogue felt awkward and stilted; and the situations cliched. Like, the guy was really JUST about to commit suicide when he gets news that his best friend... committed suicide?!  Come on!

Seriously. But, hey, it's fiction. So if the writers want to explore what that looks like . . .

Edited September 29, 2018 by shapeshifter

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Meanwhile Jon was relaxed, smiling, whealing a deal, charmingly told his assistant to take a long lunch  and -- just jumped.  Of the two, I could more easily buy that Jon was actually depressed.  With him, his scene read to me  of a man would was relieved that it was finally all gonna be over and he was setting things aright before he was done.

They seem to be showing us the two main sides of suicide. A lot of suicides are impulsive acts, committed by people who may be depressed and even have thought about it but weren't actually planning it, until something happens that triggers them to suddenly decide to do it (often within just minutes or hours of the attempt). From what I've read, most of those who survive such attempts don't go on to kill themselves later. (I read an article that mentioned two survivors of jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, who both said they regretted it immediately, even as they were falling.) That seems to be Rome's situation. The character could certainly use some help, but doesn't seem likely to try again.

People who do plan it out are often happier/calmer in the days between when they make their plan and when they carry it out, and they often wrap up "loose ends" such as finishing work/projects, giving away personal belongings, telling their family and friends that they love them, etc. That sounds like Jon (though I assume most people don't make big surprise real estate deals for their friends as part of this). I guess we'll find out eventually whether he did it out of mental health issues or trying to avoid some perceived worse outcome of whatever was going on with the deleted files, or punishing his wife and friend for cheating, or whatever.

 

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

So, that wasn't really David Giuntoli singing, was it?

I was trying unsuccessfully to find who sang the song at the end.

I'm amused by all the comments about the actors because I haven't watched any of these shows. Ron Livingston is still the guy from Office Space to me, I saw the first few episodes of Grimm and lost interest (it was on for six seasons? really?), so I have no idea who was in it at this point, and the other two guys I don't think I've ever even heard of. Allison Miller looked familiar and her IMBD shows she's been in one-off roles in several series I've watched but that's it. (Interestingly, she was also in 13 Reasons Why, which is also about a suicide.)

Edited September 29, 2018 by ams1001

[HazelEyes4325]

I had the house unexpectedly to myself tonight and was caught up on my other shows, so I gave this one a re-watch.  It was better on a second viewing, although the problems still seem glaring.  I think it has potential and I'm hoping that Nash has some women in the writing room because, based on this, women are a complete mystery to him.

As for the singing, I *think* it was David Giuntoli singing.  I know he can sing but that was in a higher key than I would expect so I'm not sure. 

Anyway, what stood out to me on the 2nd viewing:

For a clinical psychologist, Maggie has a startling lack of boundaries.  What I thought was sort of endearing the first time I watched was downright bizarre the second.  As was mentioned, the whole staying for the strange post-funeral girls night AND taking wine and glasses from someone else's house.  But what stood out to me was her going through Gary's glove box in his car.  I mean, really?

I stand corrected, it was Gary and not John who said that Katherine was toxic.  That being said, John did offer to pay Eddie to leave Katherine, although he also said that wives were "off limits."  Honestly, I'm confused by the whole John/Delilah/Eddie/Katherine dynamic.  I'm not sure if I'm trying to rid myself or hold onto my GP issues, but I have immense sympathy for Katherine.  Other than being a workaholic, I don't know what makes her toxic.  Yes, she's busy--she's also the main breadwinner (possibly the only breadwinner) in the family.  Obviously, she and Eddie have issues, but it seems like she's oblivious and Eddie is passive aggressive.  She knows she's the outcast in this group and she was polite to the others with whom we saw her have contact.  She didn't even seem dismissive to Eddie when she came home in the afternoon.  Then we have John talking out of both sides of his mouth about her.  And then there is Eddie and Delilah.  Honestly, that whole thing made less sense the second time I saw it.  Eddie seemed nearly unaffected when it was revealed that not only was he the last call John tried to make but that he was *in bed with his best friend's wife when his best friend killed himself.*  At that point, there should have been some sort of seismic shift...and there just wasn't.  None of it makes sense, and not in the not-making-sense way of "oh, there is going to be some huge revelation that will make everything fall in place."  Instead, it didn't make sense in the way that robs me of confidence in the writing of the show.  

I wish we had gotten more of Regina.  From what we saw, Christina Moses seems like a strong actress and I think her story (and her story with Rome) could be quite interesting.

I checked to see if Constance Zimmer was credited with a character's name and it just said she was "Mourner."  I'm going to feel mightily robbed if we don't get more of her.

Finally, it is really some karmic suckitude that David Giuntoli, the actor I like the most, the one for whom I am watching this show, is playing the character I like the least.

Edited September 29, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[biakbiak]

I wonder if one of the reason that Grace didn’t appear that much is because she was a recast after the pilot was filmed. Of course, her being absent does fit the character so perhaps those were the only scenes in the pilot with Anna Son.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I wonder if one of the reason that Grace didn’t appear that much is because she was a recast after the pilot was filmed. Of course, her being absent does fit the character so perhaps those were the only scenes in the pilot with Anna Son.

I'm pretty sure that was the case.  You could tell that at least half the scenes she was in she had filmed separately and was edited into the existing pilot.  

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I'm pretty sure that was the case.  You could tell that at least half the scenes she was in she had filmed separately and was edited into the existing pilot.  

Right I just meant if there were other seasons in the pilot that they decided not to reshoot.

[AllyCat]

On 9/27/2018 at 5:00 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When we were initially introduced to Ed on the phone saying that he had to leave his wife that day because he was in love with whoever he was talking to, I immediately assumed it was one of the other wives I was scrutinizing his interaction with all of them on the day of the funeral. Something about the way Delilah told him the eulogy was beautiful made me suspect she was the one, but later when he told the guys that he was in love with the mother of one of his students so I thought okay, fine, I jumped the gun on that. And then HA, it was Delilah!

 

Except it wasn’t Delilah that told him the eulogy was beautiful at the funeral, it was  some random woman that kind of looked like her.

On 9/27/2018 at 4:40 PM, ams1001 said:

I was a little surprised they didn't push more on asking the assistant why he called her just before he jumped (I guess that'll come at some point). I assume she saw him go over the railing because why would she freak out like that just walking into the room and not immediately seeing him? Did he call her to come in so she would see him jump? And if so, did he want her to witness it for a reason? Or just to make sure she got the note he left before anyone else got there?

He didn’t call her right before he jumped, he called Eddie.

On 9/27/2018 at 8:19 PM, Jillybean said:

This whole show rang completely false to me. The relationships between the characters were not at all believable. 

Dudes don't have emotional conversations at hockey games and cry in one another's arms while everyone around them is oblivious. It just doesn't happen. I had NHL season tickets for 10 years. You hear every conversation around you and you know exactly what is going on with people sitting near you. That scene was ludicrous.

So Jon's wife had only one friend so a stranger (who looked all of 25) was invited to join them as she drank wine and giggled all evening after her husband's funeral...apparently having no cares about her dead husband because she was screwing one of his friends.  How cute. Where the hell were her kids?

Pretty sure this was going for the This Is Us crowd considering they even used the same song in their ads. But it isn't remotely in the same league.

This, and so much more.  There was a lot that bothers me.  For example, speaking of the girl’s night...it was so strange to me that Delilah took Rome’s wife to the building the night of the funeral and gave her an opening date for the restaurant, when her husband just closed the deal minutes before his life ended.  I’m sure it was a priority for her while she was consoling her kids and making funeral arrangements to brush up on her late husband’s business dealings while she’s at it.   Not to mention the fact that two out of a group of four best friends were going to commit suicide the same day, probably within hours of each other.  Super believable.

On 9/27/2018 at 2:23 PM, shapeshifter said:

"Both Sides Now" is a song I play in my mind frequently on walks or floating on my back in the lake in the summer. I cried when the daughter sang it (I'm partial to acoustic guitar too), but then I chuckled upon reading in a NY Times review: 

I deleted my original comment because I realized I remembered incorrectly.  So I’ll just say I love the song as well. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by AllyCat
Slowly figuring out how to use this site

[Lady Calypso]

So, I just watched it and I liked it enough where I'll watch the next few episodes. Well, that and my Wednesdays at 10pm slot is clear.  Is it cheesy and cliche? For sure, yeah. Did things happen coincidentally? Yeah. I think they were really trying to hammer in the "everything happens for a reason" cliche with everything happening a bit unrealistically. However, I did actually like the characters enough. I think the only part I truly loathed and kept me from loving this show is the affair cliche. No, show, I don't give a shit about Delilah and Eddie. Unless this is more of a self reflection thing on Eddie's part and he's not in love with Delilah, then I could really do without this stupidity.

But honestly, other than that, I did truly enjoy everything. 

John definitely wasn't having an affair like Katherine and I figured that out once the affair twist happened, so it probably was money issues. 

I adore David Giuntoli, which is why it makes me disappointed that his character is such a cheating lying dickbag. Again, they need Eddie to not actually be in love with Delilah in order to start redeeming him. They legit ruined him in one episode!

Gary's a little bit of a sleazeball but I thought his emotionally driven moments during the Bruins game was very well done. I like Maggie, but I think she's verging on cliche territory as well, especially with I guess her not actually being in remission? I think the one thing that did interest me was Gary's overall demeanour around John's assistant Katherine. He seemed very hostile toward her and I'm not sure whether that was actually supposed to mean anything, like he's always disliked her or if it was just him taking out his anger about John on the last person to see him alive. 

Rome and Regina were both actually underutilized and I didn't feel like I really got to know either one of them. 

Overall, I will keep watching. I'm not sure how long this show will last, but I'm curious and didn't hate it, so that's a good sign.

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, AllyCat said:

He didn’t call her right before he jumped, he called Eddie.

But they looked at his phone and saw he called her after his real estate call (that she said was his last call)...but they didn't see that he called Eddie? Or did they and they just meant the last call before Eddie? I'm confused now. Still would think they'd have asked her why he called her, since they seemed suspicious.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

But they looked at his phone and saw he called her after his real estate call (that she said was his last call)...but they didn't see that he called Eddie? Or did they and they just meant the last call before Eddie? I'm confused now. Still would think they'd have asked her why he called her, since they seemed suspicious.

No. They realized it was Eddie who Jon called brfore he jumped— Gary looked at him and Eddie said he was “with a student’s mom” and let it go to voicemail. That was before we were shown he was boinking Delilah when Jon called and he ignored it.

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. They realized it was Eddie who Jon called brfore he jumped— Gary looked at him and Eddie said he was “with a student’s mom” and let it go to voicemail. That was before we were shown he was boinking Delilah when Jon called and he ignored it.

Okay...maybe I should watch again...

[DearEvette]

22 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. They realized it was Eddie who Jon called brfore he jumped— Gary looked at him and Eddie said he was “with a student’s mom” and let it go to voicemail. That was before we were shown he was boinking Delilah when Jon called and he ignored it.

Not only did he say ihe was with a student at the time, he effortlessly embellished the lie.  Dude can lie on a dime.

[HazelEyes4325]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Gary's a little bit of a sleazeball but I thought his emotionally driven moments during the Bruins game was very well done. I like Maggie, but I think she's verging on cliche territory as well, especially with I guess her not actually being in remission? I think the one thing that did interest me was Gary's overall demeanour around John's assistant Katherine. He seemed very hostile toward her and I'm not sure whether that was actually supposed to mean anything, like he's always disliked her or if it was just him taking out his anger about John on the last person to see him alive. 

1

I think you mean Ashley.  Katherine is Eddie's wife.

This reminds me of another thing I do not understand.  When John killed himself, why was Gary the first person anyone called?  Either the police or Ashley made the call.  I would assume that the police would call Delilah, not Gary.  If it was Ashley, why would she call Gary?  I would hope that there is actually a reason for this and not just a convenient plot device.

 

14 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I'm not sure if I'm trying to rid myself or hold onto my GP issues, but I have immense sympathy for Katherine.  Other than being a workaholic, I don't know what makes her toxic.  Yes, she's busy--she's also the main breadwinner (possibly the only breadwinner) in the family.  Obviously, she and Eddie have issues, but it seems like she's oblivious and Eddie is passive aggressive.  She knows she's the outcast in this group and she was polite to the others with whom we saw her have contact.  She didn't even seem dismissive to Eddie when she came home in the afternoon.  Then we have John talking out of both sides of his mouth about her. .

1

Yeah, quoting myself here.  After I wrote this, I realized...duh!  The reason why everyone thinks Katherine is toxic is that Eddie has told them so.  Nothing we saw in this episode made her seem anything more than a frazzled working mom and that is hardly "toxic."  It is possible she could be stark raving mad in the next episode, but I doubt it.  I think Eddie's unhappiness is not with his wife, but with his life.  He's just taking it out on Katherine and doing so in a very passive aggressive (not to mention, to quote @Lady Calypso "cheating lying dickbag") way.  I really hope that they give Katherine her due here...and I hope that the story is not Eddie and Delilah, but Eddie and Katherine, even if it ultimately means that they go their separate ways.

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I think you mean Ashley.  Katherine is Eddie's wife.

Heh, clearly I haven't been paying enough attention. Yes, Ashley, not Grace Park's Katherine. 

1 minute ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

This reminds me of another thing I do not understand.  When John killed himself, why was Gary the first person anyone called?  Either the police or Ashley made the call.  I would assume that the police would call Delilah, not Gary.  If it was Ashley, why would she call Gary?  I would hope that there is actually a reason for this and not just a convenient plot device.

I thought about that, actually, especially since he went to tell Delilah. I think there IS going to be a reason why he was called first over John's own wife, and we'll see that in a future episode. Kind of like how we'll see why John's final deed was to help Rome's wife Regina, of all people. She seems like a random choice to have his final act end on, for sure, so it'll be something we hopefully get answers to soon.

3 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yeah, quoting myself here.  After I wrote this, I realized...duh!  The reason why everyone thinks Katherine is toxic is that Eddie has told them so.  Nothing we saw in this episode made her seem anything more than a frazzled working mom and that is hardly "toxic."  It is possible she could be stark raving mad in the next episode, but I doubt it.  I think Eddie's unhappiness is not with his wife, but with his life.  He's just taking it out on Katherine and doing so in a very passive aggressive (not to mention, to quote @Lady Calypso "cheating lying dickbag") way.  I really hope that they give Katherine her due here...and I hope that the story is not Eddie and Delilah, but Eddie and Katherine, even if it ultimately means that they go their separate ways.

It depends. I can see if Katherine is partially to blame for Eddie's unhappiness, but she also seemed really nice to Delilah so I think a lot of it is just on Eddie. She did seem to note Eddie and that mourner's quick conversation, so maybe she knows her husband is cheating but doesn't know with who yet. 

Seriously, why does David Giuntoli, of all the actors, have to be the lying dickbag? 

[Guest]

I am so disappointed because I really wanted to like this. My biggest problem is in attempting to be shocking or funny the show kept undercutting the emotional moments. The poignant speech on what it is like to be a man with breast cancer followed by bathroom sex. The emotional eulogy summarizing the entire premise of the show is interrupted by Gary arriving late with a random hookup. A grieving daughter's heartfelt tribute to her father proceeded by a Bruno Mars joke. It just kept taking me out of the show. In the end I should have been touched the Jon's last act was to fulfill a friend's dream but instead I am wondering why random hookup girl decided to steal wine and glasses from the grieving widow on the off chance that something toast worthy might come up. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

. . . My biggest problem is in attempting to be shocking or funny the show kept undercutting the emotional moments. The poignant speech on what it is like to be a man with breast cancer followed by bathroom sex. The emotional eulogy summarizing the entire premise of the show is interrupted by Gary arriving late with a random hookup. A grieving daughter's heartfelt tribute to her father proceeded by a Bruno Mars joke. It just kept taking me out of the show. . . .

Mileage varies. I think you have pinpointed, @Dani, why I might like the show. I need comic relief in my dramas.

 

 

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

16 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I'm not sure if I'm trying to rid myself or hold onto my GP issues, but I have immense sympathy for Katherine.  Other than being a workaholic, I don't know what makes her toxic. . .

Yeah, quoting myself here.  After I wrote this, I realized...duh!  The reason why everyone thinks Katherine is toxic is that Eddie has told them so.  Nothing we saw in this episode made her seem anything more than a frazzled working mom and that is hardly "toxic."

Heh, yeah, it is probably your GP love, but, OTOH, like I mentioned upthread, my very dear "work daughter" is both a GP look-alike and a BSG fan (like me), so I too feel protective of GP. The main reason we know Katharine is toxic is because we've been told she is. Better writing would show, not tell, but then again, since they haven't shown, and since this is just the Pilot, they could still rehabilitate her character--plus, there was that line from her about Jon being the one who made her felt like she was part of the group, which leaves a lot of room for her to be not just "toxic."

 

 

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Seriously, why does David Giuntoli, of all the actors, have to be the lying dickbag? 

I'm okay with David Giuntoli and/or Grace Park not being heroes or "good guys" as long as they get a chance to play roles that will further their careers. There are villains I love to hate.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It depends. I can see if Katherine is partially to blame for Eddie's unhappiness, but she also seemed really nice to Delilah so I think a lot of it is just on Eddie. She did seem to note Eddie and that mourner's quick conversation, so maybe she knows her husband is cheating but doesn't know with who yet. 

Seriously, why does David Giuntoli, of all the actors, have to be the lying dickbag? 

 

Well, in general, no one is responsible for anyone else's happiness (at least when we are talking about adults), so I don't think I can see a scenario where Katherine is even partially responsible for Eddie's unhappiness.  My guess is that Eddie is just an overgrown manchild who can't deal with the fact that he is not "the star."  He's unhappy because his life is not what he wanted and instead of thinking that maybe, just maybe, that might be due to his own decisions, says it is because of his successful wife who won't let him shine or won't put his stardom ahead of her career or some crap like that.  When he said that he fell in love with someone else it was because this other woman believed in him.  That's all it took--someone to stroke his ego.

From what we saw, I don't think Katherine had any knowledge that her husband was cheating until Constance Zimmer made her comment.  That seemed to be the thing that started any suspicion she might have.

I'm 100% with you on DG though.  While I hate the fact that I detest his character, I will say that he is mostly performing it quite well.  There were some things that could be a performance issue (namely the whole lack of guilt thing), but I'm willing to pass that blame onto the directing for now.  Actually, nearly all of the actors are impressive here.  I'm not super fond of the actors playing either of John's kids (Eddie's son is still young enough to coast on cuteness) and Christina Ochoa seems to be the only real weak link among the adult actors.

49 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

h, yeah, it is probably your GP love, but, OTOH, like I mentioned upthread, my very dear "work daughter" is both a GP look-alike and a BSG fan (like me), so I too feel protective of GP. The main reason we know Katharine is toxic is because we've been told she is. Better writing would show, not tell, but then again, since they haven't shown, and since this is just the Pilot, they could still rehabilitate her character--plus, there was that line from her about Jon being the one who made her felt like she was part of the group, which leaves a lot of room for her to be not just "toxic."

2

Just clarification...my GP feeling isn't "love"...it's actually the opposite, which is why my sympathy for her character is so strange to me.  I am actually really curious if Katherine is going to be one of the main characters or on the periphery.  In the early marketing, it seemed that Ashley was one of the main group, but she very clearly a supporting character.  GP is a big enough star that I can't see her accepting a supporting role, so I'm hoping that they'll develop her character.

If nothing else, with David Giuntoli and Grace Park this show is forcing me to separate my feelings about actors from their roles.  Sigh.

Edited September 29, 2018 by HazelEyes4325