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Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
in Legends Of Tomorrow

MarkHB
Message added by MarkHB

This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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BkWurm1
BkWurm1

Aww crap. I was hoping he'd be bored and have moved away from the crossover by next year.  I really don't like the narrow focus on just the leads.  I was willing to put up with it this year but now I'

Starfish35
Starfish35

I’m dying. 🤣 From Tumblr:

Mellowyellow
Mellowyellow

Ahh good old Stephen and his NOPE face reserved for everyone who isn't EBR. At least he doesn't look like he wants to break Iris's arm there! We had a temp LI in S5 and there was a scene where sh

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Featherhat

Featherhat

10 minutes ago, Trini said:

Wait - so in addition to everything else, this crossover also has got to (at least partially) set up a Lois & Clark spin-off? This thing is getting messier all the time.

We were always going to get an update on the baby and it seems like that's a big basis for the show so it's probably an expanded version of that. Like the Oliver and Mia storyline would have happened anyway but it's also set up for the new show/pilot. 

I think it's highly likely both shows have already been picked up in pencil, like Batwoman was once they announced her participation in Elseworlds and the rest was just following the process. Unless something goes wrong behind the scenes with budget, actors or execs that is. It's just where the hell do they fit both in?

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

21 minutes ago, Trini said:

Wait - so in addition to everything else, this crossover also has got to (at least partially) set up a Lois & Clark spin-off? This thing is getting messier all the time.

Look at how Elseworlds set up Batwoman...she was in like 10mins? Superman/Lois are already further developed than that so they dont have to do much.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

9 hours ago, CabotCove said:

I dont think a Superman potential show means doom for Supergirl, they can coexist together for a while. They need female superhero led shows, and Supergirl is one of the main two. Superman may focus on family themes with Lois and the baby, making it different from Supergirl. 

They usually announce final seasons, so season 6 of Supergirl is likely a go. 

I dont think the question is if there is going to be a season 6. The question is if the lead is willing to stay in Vancouver beyond season 6. IMO it has already been decided and Melissa wont renew her contract beyond it. I am guessing they going to pull an Arrow an announce the show ending when they reach certain ratings. 

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

So I guess Oliver really is the only major superhero who's going to 'die' in this Crisis crossover.

I'm 'meh' about the Superman and Lois series news because, while I like TH as Clark, I didn't like ET as Lois in last year's crossover. Also, I think that TH and ET have lukewarm chemistry.

Edited by tv echo
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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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Theory time! I think it was the Anti Monitor who was referenced in tonight’s Arrow. We only got a drawing rather than a flashback and he wants to guarantee the end of time. Since Oliver doesn’t know about him that’s why he logically concluded that Monitor was the one the ancient writing was talking about. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

'Arrow' Crossover’s LaMonica Garrett Teases Anti-Monitor’s ‘Pure Evil’ Plan, The Monitor’s Backstory
Nicole Massabrook    10/29/19
https://www.ibtimes.com/arrow-crossovers-lamonica-garrett-teases-anti-monitors-pure-evil-plan-monitors-2855927

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IBT: How much are you kept in the dark at this point? Did you get to know at the beginning of this season what The Monitor's true intentions are and what his end game is?
Garrett: I had no idea all the way up until I got all the scripts for the shows for “Crisis”... And I would talk to Stephen [Amell, who plays the Green Arrow/Oliver Queen]. Stephen, like most of the leads of the shows, they kind of know what's going on, especially Stephen's character because he plays a huge part in this being the last season for "Arrow" and all.

So he's like, "Yeah, have you heard anything about what's going on?" I'm like, "No man, tell me." Like I'm always the last to know,  and so it was kind of funny.

When I read all the scripts, I was blown away. It was amazing. But I learn about this stuff in layers pretty much with the rest of the cast.

IBT: Should audiences trust The Monitor? He's now telling both Barry and Oliver that they have to die in order to save everyone. 
Garrett: Yeah, he is a bad news bear. But I love the fact that they pulled what The Monitor did from the comic books and brought it to the screen and that's kind of what he did in "Crisis." And even before "Crisis," the original in 1985, when they first introduced him in Teen Titans, he was doing bad things in his head for a better cause. He was a weapons dealer to villains and super villains. He was doing things that were shady, but you saw his end game in the end. So I think that's the part where we're going to watch "Crisis" and learn more about him and why he did this and who he really is.
*  *  *
IBT: You said that we are going to learn a little bit more about The Monitor's backstory and why he's involved in all of this. What was your reaction when you learned that?
Garrett: It was real exciting. You'll get to see a different side of The Monitor... He's morally ambiguous, so he plays things pretty stoic. He has an intention. He goes after that and that's just what it is. He's not mad about it. He's not sad or happy. This is his job and this is what he does.

But during the Crisis you'll see that whole facade break. You'll see another side of him that I was very excited to read and to look forward to playing it. And I think the audience will understand a lot more what makes him tick. And they still might feel the same way about him or they might have some empathy for him, but it's something that's different and I was excited about that.

IBT: If The Monitor is this all powerful being, then why can't he get these items himself? Why does he need the help of the superheroes?
Garrett: Because he knows he's not going to be able to defeat The Anti-Monitor by himself. So he needs not just the item that he's telling Oliver and I'm sure he has other heroes that [are] trying to get all this stuff together. He knows he needs a team of superheroes. And getting the items is not just getting those items, but it's a process of coming together. So he's accumulating all this for the process of coming together. He needs the team. And it's hard to tiptoe around that question because I know when the Crisis comes, he's going to be blatantly honest about why everything happens the way it happened and the audience will understand his motives.
*  *  *
IBT: So what can we expect from The Anti-Monitor? I saw the poster and he looks very different.
Garrett: He has one goal. I think what drives ascene and what makes a great scene is two people with highly different objectives going after their objectives--and that's The Monitor and The Anti-Monitor. And they're in with like good, evil, light, dark--whatever you can think that are polar opposites, that's who they are. And I think those two going towards each other for this big, climactic crisis is exciting. But he's pure evil. There is no, "I'm doing this for a better cause." Like how in ["Avengers: Endgame"], Thanos, he was doing it to bring peace even though it was a wrong way of going about it. But he says if he got rid of half the world's population, then there's more fruitfulness for everyone that's still living. But with The Anti-Monitor, it's just evil. Like, "I want evil, I want to kill things. I want one world under my fingerprint." And that's just what he does. So it's exciting to see how that comes to a head.

IBT: What was the most exciting part about filming "Crisis on Infinite Earths"?
Garrett: I think working with all the actors on a scale that big. I've never worked with Caity Lotz before. I've never worked with Brandon [Routh]. All those actors have a lot of fun together…When you're into the schedule of shooting your show, it kind of gets routine…It’s great, but then you get like a field trip in the middle of nine, 10 months of shooting where it's like, "Oh, it's like camp. All my friends are here, this is different. This is new." And the energy, you see everyone's having fun on set. Just being a part of that and just knowing how big Crisis is going to be and the magnitude of it,  even when I wasn't filming, I would sit back and just be thankful that I'm a part of this big [event]. It's a big moment in TV history to me and especially DC history and DC TV and comic books. It's going to be remembered and I'm glad I'm a part of it. So I would sit back and have fun just being there.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Go to blog link to see more pics....

Quote

CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS - Legends Of Tomorrow - October 24 - downtown Vancouver - The Final Location Shoot
*  *  *
On this day, the crew for Legends Of Tomorrow were in an area of Coal Harbour that should be familiar to Arrowverse fans, as it was the same block that Earth 90s Flash, The Flash, Supergirl & Green Arrow faced off with The Monitor in Elseworlds.

This time, they shot a couple different scenes here. The first one had Grant Gustin as The Flash, Brandon Routh as The ATOM, and Melissa Benoist as Supergirl on set. They were shooting a scene where the trio were in the middle of the street as civilians scramble to get out of there. Flash & Supergirl are facing what I assume is some type of problem, while The ATOM seems more excited to just take a selfie of himself and his friends. The Flash gives him the "are you kidding?" look, and eventually ATOM turns around to face the situation the other two were looking at.

After a few moments of banter, the team seems to split up. Flash runs forward, while Supergirl simulates flying off, and The ATOM seems to just disappear (wondering if he went into super small size) off to the side of where the camera was.

The license plates had "Land Of Mist' plates, which are used for Starling City usually. So it seems like this scene was set there.
*  *  *
A bit later, the trio moved down the street. They were joined this time by Dominic Purcell as Mick Rory/Heatwave for a scene.

For this scene, an observation I made. Did Micks gun always look like a really fancy glue gun, or am I mistaken?? I thought it looked different. 

The scene seemed to have Heatwave in the middle of the street pointing his glue.... err heat gun at something/someone above him. Off to his right The Flash was busy in a tug of war with something (I mean in reality it was a crew member, but I doubt thats what its supposed actually be). Eventually the pair freeze for a moment while ATOM & Supergirl come in and act like they just zipped in. They then help The Flash in his tug of war, and Heatwave grabs on the to back end. Eventually they seem to win the tug of war, sending The Flash falling backwards with Supergirl catching him.

After they did the scene, I got a chance to have my last encounter with Brandon. He came over to sign a couple autographs for me, and I told him how much again I was disappointed he was leaving, and he said he was too. I wished him and Courtney luck on whatever they do next... and that was the last I would see of him on an Arrowverse set possibly. It was also the last I would see of a Crisis set. I planned to go back for a night scene they did, but they managed to set it up, and film it in less than half an hour, so I got there less than 10 minutes after it wrapped.... but I do know it was a scene of Bitsie Tulloch as Lois Lane walking down the street, talking on a phone.

With that, the official wrap on Crisis On Infinite Earths happened. There may be re-shoots of a scene, or pick up scenes (scenes they originally didnt decide to shoot... but after seeing what they had, decided they might need it). But officially, the 5 episode cross over has completed its principle photography on it all.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

Entertainment Spotlight: LaMonica Garrett, Arrowverse
October 29, 2019
https://entertainment.tumblr.com/post/188681864943/entertainment-spotlight-lamonica-garrett

Quote

If you had a catchphrase, what would it be?
How you do anything is how you do everything.

Tell us your favorite on-set experience (on or off camera).
The Monitor’s introduction teaser scene destroying Earth 90 with (Flash) John Wesley Shipp, and the Anti-Monitor’s introduction scene.

You started out in the NFL before making the transition to acting – is there a specific moment that you remember realizing that you wanted to get into the entertainment industry?
I actually left college early and worked out for 3 NFL teams. When I got the word it wasn’t looking good for me, the entertainment industry started to sound like a plan.

How (if at all) does your experience in sports impact your acting?
Instilled discipline, a work ethic, and how to compete with myself to get better.

If you could be transported into the world of a book, movie, or TV show, which one would you pick?
Star Wars.

If you could have the powers of any hero or villain from the Arrowverse, whose powers would you want?
Martian Manhunter: super strength, shapeshifter, can fly, AND he can read minds?

What would’ve been your strategy to raid Area 51?
I have no clue.

Do you have any fun facts about filming that fans would be surprised to know?
On the days I play both Monitor and Anti-Monitor, I’m in the makeup chair for over 4 hours, usually starting at 4 am.

What would you ask The Monitor if you had the chance?
What would be the best strategy to raid Area 51?

Did you keep anything from set (or is there anything from set that you’d like to keep)?
I’ve been trying to get the Monitors whole outfit home with me for months… They ain’t budging.

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Starry

Starry

13 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Hope they refrain from them bashing Oliver in this crossover. 

And I hope Oliver refrains from bashing WestAllen 🤷🏻

12 hours ago, Trini said:

It doesn't even have to be a whole spin-off; if they would just have more mini-crossovers, I'd love that.

I need Iris to have a balanced friendship with another woman. Hopefully Lois can be that person.

I'd like Kara to be added as well but I think this crossover is going to be more about her role as Supergirl while Iris and Lois cover the journalism aspect. At least I hope they do some reporting.

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tv echo

tv echo

Batwoman's Rachel Skarsten Teases Reveal of Alice's Origin Story, Reacts to Crossover's Birds of Prey Encore
By Matt Webb Mitovich / October 31 2019
https://tvline.com/2019/10/31/batwoman-rachel-skarsten-preview-alice-origin-story-episode-1x05/ 

Quote

TVLINE | Last question: Did you bump into Birds of Prey castmate Ashley Scott at all when she was in town for the “Crisis” crossover? And were you jealous that she got to dip back into that well?
I did! I did. I was teasing her that I’ve decided I’m now her unofficial publicist because, in New York, I couldn’t stop talking about her coming for the [“Crisis on Infinite Earths”] crossover [as Huntress]. When we did Birds of Prey, I was so young and so out of my element in Los Angeles, and Ashley was so incredibly kind to me and really, really looked after me so much, and so we’ve stayed friends throughout the years. When I found out that she was coming back, she called me and it just worked out really perfectly.

She wasn’t here for very long, but we did get a chance to hang out after she finished filming and it was so crazy to see the photos of her as the Huntress. It felt like some sort of a weird time warp, where you’re sitting on the couch looking at these photos and I was like, “Oh, my goodness. I could be 16 all over again.” It’s like, what is happening? I was so just thrilled that she came back — and I’m hoping that’s not the last that we see of her.

Velocity23

Velocity23

3 hours ago, Starry said:

And I hope Oliver refrains from bashing WestAllen 🤷🏻

Where did he bash Westallen? Because of the lightning rod? I am sorry but that is clearly something that should have stayed between Iris and Barry not shared with anybody.The Flash writers chose to write it as if Barry uses it as manipulation whenever he wants something and even suggested to Oliver to use it on Iris. If anything WA and the Flash writers went to town to continue their Oliver Queen is the worst tirade.  Barry disregarded all of Olivers growth and the journey he had to take to joke around with Kara about his past. . And Iris tried to make Olivers darkness as an insult on top of everything.

Barry should honestly inspire to be the kind of hero Oliver is, instead of the selfishness that he showcases time and time again. And it happened again last season with Nora for which others are once again carrying the consequences for. And its hard to feel sorry for the Nora loss because imo she was never the kid that Barry and Iris will once have.

Crisis was always supposed to be Barrys destiny and yet it will end up with him not even a scratch from it. Same with Kara and Superman. Instead its going to glorify Oliver as the hero of the arrowverse. 

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Starry

Starry

21 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

The Flash writers chose to write it as if Barry uses it as manipulation whenever he wants something and even suggested to Oliver to use it on Iris.

No, they didn't. Oliver acted like what Barry was suggesting was ridiculous. Unless the implication is that Oliver finds manipulation funny/ridiculous as opposed to disgusting, manipulation is not what they were suggesting.

But I wasn't referring to the lightning rod line. I was talking about the "you can't do anything without your wife in your ear" part which is something Arrow fans and haters in general use to bash WestAllen. When you use hater discourse in your script, that's bashing. Since Oliver was the one talking like your typical WestAllen hater he was bashing WestAllen.

28 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Crisis was always supposed to be Barrys destiny and yet it will end up with him not even a scratch from it. Same with Kara and Superman. Instead its going to glorify Oliver as the hero of the arrowverse. 

Which sucks. They shouldn't steal from Barry and Kara's canon to glorify Oliver as the hero of the Arrowverse. Especially when comic canon could very well be the devil for the Arrow writers and fans. Wanna go with Oliver as the hero of the Arrowverse? Create your own original story. You can't crap on comic canon but then turn around and steal from other heroes to prop up Oliver. That's tacky.

But I personally don't think Oliver is going to die/stay dead.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

9 minutes ago, Starry said:

Which sucks. They shouldn't steal from Barry and Kara's canon to glorify Oliver as the hero of the Arrowverse. Especially when comic canon could very well be the devil for the Arrow writers and fans. Wanna go with Oliver as the hero of the Arrowverse? Create your own original story. You can't crap on comic canon but then turn around and steal from other heroes to prop up Oliver. That's tacky.

But I personally don't think Oliver is going to die/stay dead.

Personalyl neither do i. But IMO i think the reason they are not doing the comic story is the same reason the Flash had Flashpoint last 1 episode. They are too afraid. And by they i feel its the people in the high places. Its why every major crossover has been centered around Oliver. Why Barrys being in prison seemed like vacation and Olivers was basically a beating down of Oliver.

And honestly fans of TV Oliver dont want him taking over the story either. They want Oliver to be able to retire as was the plan before Crisis started. I think Barry could have been the hero of the arrowverse but they need to stop portraying him as selfish as they have in the past. He is supposedly the purest of the heroes but then he makes such selfish decisions and to this day many consider him  the true villain of the universe.

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Starry

Starry

5 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Personalyl neither do i. But IMO i think the reason they are not doing the comic story is the same reason the Flash had Flashpoint last 1 episode. They are too afraid. And by they i feel its the people in the high places. Its why every major crossover has been centered around Oliver. Why Barrys being in prison seemed like vacation and Olivers was basically a beating down of Oliver.

I don't think this has anything to do with fear. I'd argue that Flashpoint lasted the entire season as Barry was dealing with the consequences even after he undid it. If anything, the post-Flashpoint timeline was darker than Flashpoint. They also screwed up the Trial of the Flash because by that point they got bored with Barry and got fixated on Ralph and the juvenile hijinks that came with his storyline. It was nothing more than shallow, bad writing but that's a topic for the Flash forum.

I think every major crossover has been centered around Oliver because they see him as the "dad" of the Arrowverse. It's something that wouldn't bother me if it didn't come at the expense of Barry, Kara and the other characters. This is why I am weary about their version of Crisis on Infinite Earths and never wanted Barry and Iris to get married during a crossover. If for whatever reason you ( TPTB ) think that Oliver should be the leader of every crossover then don't adapt a storyline that should center around one of the other Arrowverse heroes and give it to Oliver/have Oliver hijack it.

As for many considering Barry the true villain of the universe, to each their own. He's made mistakes but IMO he's not even the most selfish character on Flash.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

1 hour ago, Starry said:

I don't think this has anything to do with fear. I'd argue that Flashpoint lasted the entire season as Barry was dealing with the consequences even after he undid it. If anything, the post-Flashpoint timeline was darker than Flashpoint. They also screwed up the Trial of the Flash because by that point they got bored with Barry and got fixated on Ralph and the juvenile hijinks that came with his storyline. It was nothing more than shallow, bad writing but that's a topic for the Flash forum.

I think every major crossover has been centered around Oliver because they see him as the "dad" of the Arrowverse. It's something that wouldn't bother me if it didn't come at the expense of Barry, Kara and the other characters. This is why I am weary about their version of Crisis on Infinite Earths and never wanted Barry and Iris to get married during a crossover. If for whatever reason you ( TPTB ) think that Oliver should be the leader of every crossover then don't adapt a storyline that should center around one of the other Arrowverse heroes and give it to Oliver/have Oliver hijack it.

As for many considering Barry the true villain of the universe, to each their own. He's made mistakes but IMO he's not even the most selfish character on Flash.

For me it definetely feels like they dont want to go all the way with Barry like they do with Oliver and Kara. Its why they completely removed his Earth X counterpart, with all the implication it has for Barry and Iris. When in reality they could have made it epic. With showing a love on Earth X that couldnt be due to the circumstances of their upbringing. And then have the glorious unification of Iris and Barry in Earth 1. Instead they gave the heavy beats and the arc of the crossover to Oliver and Felicity. And the showrunners claimed they didnt want to make him a villain again after the Savitar season. But it sounds like excuses where they dont have to put in much effort. And honestly Candice would have been amazing in those type of scenes. What we got in the end was barely any Barry and then he let Nazi Thawne go and in the end he was able to get so close to Nora as we seen in last season.

I just think its time other stop paying for his mistakes or sacrificing themselves in his place.. The ending of s1 and s2 were really bad for Barry as a hero. S4 he didnt fare much better. All the things he changed with flashpoint were always excused and others were made look like they overreacting. And the worst thing was that even though he knew the horrible consequences it might have he let Nora stay in the present time where she changed things left and right. It also cost Oliver the 5 years he had with his family. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

3 hours ago, Starry said:

Which sucks. They shouldn't steal from Barry and Kara's canon to glorify Oliver as the hero of the Arrowverse. Especially when comic canon could very well be the devil for the Arrow writers and fans. Wanna go with Oliver as the hero of the Arrowverse? Create your own original story.

All these shows have "based on the characters from DC Comics" in the opening credits instead of "faithfully adapted from every comics story ever" for a reason. They're going to adapt them for their characters and whatever logistical/creative purposes they need/want to meet. 

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Starry

Starry

@Velocity23

I wouldn't trust these people to write Nazi Barry and his relationship with Iris tastefully. It could have been epic or it could have been gross. They are often guilty of problematic writing as far as Iris is concerned. We talked about this a lot on the Flash board after this weeks episode.

But let's say you are right and the reason they didn't make Barry a Nazi is because they are lazy. Is it because they didn't want to make an effort with Barry or because they are comfortable with shortchanging Iris? Because it could have been epic for Barry and Iris but why give Iris something epic when you can sideline her as usual?

I knew who I was dealing with. I didn't want Nazi Barry and I didn't want the crossover wedding either.

As for Barry letting Nora stay in the past, he had Wally consult with the Legends and they gave him an out. Barry wanted Nora to go back to her time the minute she arrived.

44 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

All these shows have "based on the characters from DC Comics" in the opening credits instead of "faithfully adapted from every comics story ever" for a reason. They're going to adapt them for their characters and whatever logistical/creative purposes they need/want to meet. 

I am not asking for the most faithful adaptation ever. I am not very familiar with the comics and only read Crisis on Infinite Earths because of the crossover. But I am sorry I don't like it when existing characters have to lose their canon storylines to someone else. Especially when Kara deserves better and Flash vanishing in Crisis is not just comic canon, it's show canon.

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Seriously; he (and the other leads) are going to be fine. I'd worry about side characters.

I am not worried about side characters either. The most ballsy thing they could do is solve the "Caitlin and Frost inhabit the same body" dilemma and off one of them. But even that is a long shot.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

11 minutes ago, Starry said:

I am not asking for the most faithful adaptation ever. I am not very familiar with the comics and only read Crisis on Infinite Earths because of the crossover. But I am sorry I don't like it when existing characters have to lose their canon storylines to someone else. Especially when Kara deserves better and Flash vanishing in Crisis is not just comic canon, it's show canon.

I never wrote that you had to like it; I was just addressing your comment that if they want Oliver to be the hero of the Arrowverse that they should create their own original story. These shows all exist as a spin on comics canon - this version of Crisis is their spin on that as well, whether we like that spin or not. 

Is Barry losing his storyline to Oliver? People were complaining about that after the last crossover and it seems like Barry has his own story. Maybe Kara will too? Is there any indication that Oliver's outright stealing anyone's storyline other than getting one of his own in this version of Crisis? 

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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

Barry and Kara will go on to be the stars of the next crossover and the one after that. Except if Superman truly crashes the party and insists on being the loudest boy scout in the room. 

They could have kept this Crisis in their back pockets for next year after Arrow had finished, they chose not to and had it be the swan song for the character that started the whole 'verse off. They knew it was something fans had been clamouring for for years and decided to have Arrow go out big, fittingly for the start of this 7-8 potential show franchise. Like how Tony was the central character/it all started with him/Big Sacrifice of Endgame but others like Steve were more important as Captain of the Avengers. TBH I'd actually rather he didn't die/"die" in this grand cosmic way but they'd ended his story in a slightly rewritten version of S7. 

Barry's got his own "Barry Allen Must Die" thing going on, his story certainly isn't being ignored and I believe it will have a large part of Crisis but at the end of the day his isn't the show that's ending and if he dies or a version of him dies we know he's coming back for another couple of years and will therefore live to fight another day and have twins with Iris. There's no way that when it's his last crossover it won't be the All the Time Barry Allen Show. Although I know people would be annoyed that isn't COIE in a few years. 

I kind of agree with @Velocity23 I think they pull back with what Barry actually is allowed to do because they don't want to "taint" him, baring Savitar. COEX could have had a lot more Barry, or they could have had him kill Thawne at least since he was going to come back anyway, just like he came back even though the Spear/Black Flash wiped him out of reality. It's a shame because GG can certainly do the heavy lifting but when half the characters are pointing at one character all the time and going "he's not a hero, he's just a grumpy asshole killer" that's much easier to write as the emotional anchor of the crossover than a guy who everyone worships, who is in a stable relationship that got married after 1.5 seasons together and who never wavers about killing people. (In Crossovers). 

Edited by Featherhat
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Maverick

Maverick

 Given that Earth-X Quentin killed his own daughter because she was bi, I think its a given that Earth-X Barry finding out his doppleganger was married to Iris would not go well.    There's a potential story for Grant and Candice to play, but Iris had just had to deal with an alternative version of her husband trying to kill her.   

 Back to this year's crossover.  The set pics of Black Lightning show him in his old costume.  So will that mean it's a different version of BL in the crossover or that it takes place before the current season??

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Oreo2234

Oreo2234

(edited)
Quote

Barry and Kara will go on to be the stars of the next crossover and the one after that. Except if Superman truly crashes the party and insists on being the loudest boy scout in the room. 

Supergirl already seemed like she was playing support to Superman in the finale of the last crossover so once he has an actual show of his own it will only get worse. I don't think she will ever get to be the star of the crossover. 

Quote

Is it actually clear that crossovers will continue after Arrow is gone? I'm not so sure.

The crossovers generate a lot of buzz and temporarily drive up ratings so I think they will probably continue with them. 

Edited by Oreo2234
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DisneyBoy

DisneyBoy

Well I guess that really confirms that Dina Meyer isn't going back as Barbara Gordon. Rachel probably would have mentioned that they had a full-on reunion if she was. I wonder why she chose to stay away. She must have been invited, right?

...for those that have seen her at conventions or in other projects, does she seem pleasant and fun or like the kind that takes herself very seriously? It's interesting that Rachel has said absolutely nothing about Dina while acting as Ashley's "publicist" and praising her to the media. It's kind of a noteworthy omission isn't it? I mean I may be wrong but of the three birds, Dina had the most experience in the industry and could have theoretically been her mentor. Unless she just really didn't get along with the other two. Wild speculation on my part and hopefully not the case at all.

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This was a long interview and I didn't quote everything, so you may wish to read the entire article...

Arrowverse's LaMonica Garrett Talks All Things Crisis, Getting the Part of The Monitor, and More
Sarah Little at November 1, 2019
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2019/11/arrowverses-lamonica-garrett-talks-all-things-crisis-getting-the/ 

Quote

The ending of Arrow Season 8 Episode 3 was crazy. We saw in a flash of light that Future Team Arrow and Present Team Arrow are now together. And, I'm guessing it's because of The Monitor. Why would he do that?
I think everything that The Monitor does, there's a greater purpose for it. Whether it's to get more of what he needs out of a particular character, or to just, you know, even disrupting, that would get something out of a particular character that he needs to be fulfilled before the Crisis starts.

So, pretty much everything he does is leading up to the Crisis, and he needs all hands on deck, and the right mental state to approach the crisis. So, it's not just physical, it's mental, and his main subject for the Crisis is Oliver Queen.

The last time we saw The Monitor was at the end of Arrow Season 8 Episode 2. Where is he going to pop up next? The Flash, Arrow?
He's making his rounds, and I think that the way they spring out The Monitor in different TV shows in different times, it's not over-saturated till you get sick of seeing him. And, right when you forget about him, he shows back up.

They do a great job of that because whenever you see him, it's reminding the audience, as well as the characters on the show, that this Crisis is looming. The closer it gets to the Crisis, you'll start seeing more and more of him.
*  *  *
Oliver doesn't really trust The Monitor anymore because of what he read in the League of Assassin's records. How will The Monitor's relationship with Oliver play out moving forward?
I think that's the fun thing about it. If Oliver was all in on what The Monitor was doing and telling him, it wouldn't be as much fun to see what happens with it. So, naturally, he has people in his ear like Diggle telling him don't trust this guy, you create your own destiny, you don't have to listen to him.

And, he's one of his close friends. You have people around you, telling you otherwise, and you're already starting to doubt. And, now your kids get pushed into this timeline, that might be the final straw. He's not in a good place right now, so I think it's natural for him to distrust The Monitor.

But, The Monitor knows what he's doing. It might not be the right way of doing it, but it's all for a greater purpose.

As the audience, should we trust The Monitor?
I don't know if I would not trust him, I don't know if I'd be all in with him. It's like one of those situations that you keep an eye on.

He's kind of rated R, not PG-13. It's like, I don't know if I trust this guy yet, but I'm gonna see how this plays out a little bit further.
*  *  *
That's true, cause it's still a little early before the crossover. A lot can happen.
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that's gonna happen before then. So, you can't be all in on hating him right now, and then he does something and turns everything around. Oh yeah, I liked him all along anyway! No you didn't.

I wanted to talk about Harbinger because we saw at the end of Arrow Season 8 Episode 2 the meeting between Lyla and The Monitor. What was it like bringing that iconic duo from the comics to life?
That was one of my favorite moments this season, as far as what The Monitor was involved in. When I read that, I got really excited because that was my moment as the actor and as The Monitor of like, alright the Crisis is really about to be here. Because Harbinger and The Monitor are two of the key figures in Crisis.

Them meeting for the first time, that was a wild moment for me. I knew it was coming because I filmed it, but when I watched it -- when Lyla is walking, and she's speaking to someone, The Monitor coming out of the shadows -- that moment was like, yes, the Crisis is here. That was awesome.

And, [as for] their relationship, more will come from who they are when the Crisis starts, and that's part of the fun. You're laying all these breadcrumbs, culminating into something big later on.
*  *  *
Will we get to see the pasts of Lyla and The Monitor at all?
You will get to know more about who The Monitor is and where he came from. A lot of that will fill in the blanks for other pieces that may be missing. But, you'll get to know who The Monitor was back in the day, how he became who he is, and what he is about. You might even feel some empathy for him, some compassion.
*  *  *
In the comics, The Monitor is killed by Harbinger, who is being possessed by the Anti-Monitor, while The Flash and Supergirl also die. Basically, a lot of people die, and a lot of crap happens. How much would you say Arrowverse's version of Crisis differs from the comics, and how is The Monitor different?
They did a lot of things pretty much identical to the comic books, as much as you can. It's hard to adapt everything to the screen. But, without saying what's going to happen, they hit a lot of things on the head. Some stuff they couldn't do.

I think the way it plays out will be very satisfying for the audience. Die-hard Crisis comic book fans, they'll see a lot of similarities, and some stuff, just for the sake of story, they had to deviate from onscreen. But, it's still a great story and makes sense in the way it's told.

People will be happy.
Yeah, I think there's a lot to be happy with. There will always be someone saying, oh they should've did this, they should've did that, but you can't do everything and you can't please everyone.

But, as a fan, when I was reading the Crisis episodes, I was very excited.
*  *  *
Every time we see The Monitor, he's usually pretty somber and predicting death. Does he ever let loose, have some fun? Does he ever smile?
[laughs] Yeah, during the crossover you'll see a side of The Monitor you never thought you'd see.

You'll see a way different side of him and, like I said, you might even feel some compassion for him because of the situation he found himself in. You'll definitely see a lighter side of him. He won't just be the Debbie Downer in everything during the Crisis.
*  *  *
Going over to the Anti-Monitor, can you say when we get to meet him?
I don't want to give that away, but I think it's just like when The Monitor was introduced right before the crossover last year. That teaser with John Wesley Shipp when he destroys Earth-90. That came out of left field, and it was exciting. Jaws dropped when that scene happened, like what's going on? Who's that?

I think, the Anti-Monitor, he has a moment when he does make his appearance. His presence is already being felt on the current episodes. And, when it gets closer and closer, his presence will really be felt, but I think when you finally see him, it's all gonna pay off in that one moment. It's an awesome scene.

For the Anti-Monitor, why now? Why does he feel as if this is the time to start destroying the infinite Earths?
Because he was made aware of it. It's just like in the comic books, he was completely unaware of the existence of certain universes in the multiverse. So, now that he's been made aware of it, he has to destroy it.

He's not doing things for a greater cause, like Thanos got rid of half the world so that the other half would be prosperous and would have more resources. The Anti-Monitor is not about that. He's just about killing everything and making one world under his thumb to match his identity. It's just pure evil.

He just wants to see the world burn under his watch. And, that's fun to play as well.
*  *  *
Filming the Crisis, did you have a favorite person to act opposite of or someone that you didn't expect that you would be filming a scene with?
I just enjoyed everyone's energy. And, I worked with people I didn't get to work with on the first crossover. Like, Caity Lotz, I didn't work with her. I didn't work with Ruby [Rose] before, and it was fun playing off of them.

And Brandon [Routh], I didn't work with him before. And, his suit, the Kingdom Come Superman is probably one of my favorite suits of the new suits. It was amazing.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrowverse's LaMonica Garrett hints Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover will dramatically affect every show
BY JESS LEE   November 2, 2019
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a29655613/arrowverse-crisis-on-infinite-earths-lamonica-garrett/ 

Quote

LaMonica Garrett, who plays the Monitor and Anti-Monitor, discussed the crossover with Digital Spy and hinted that Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Batwoman, and DC's Legends of Tomorrow will be dealing with the aftermath in different ways.

The star said that this season in some ways can be split into "two parts".

"The early part of the season for all of the shows leading up to Crisis, and then after," he said. "There's 'before Crisis' and 'after Crisis'. [The crossover] is going to affect everyone and every show, but it's going to affect each of them differently.
*  *  *
"And that's going to be fun, to watch how it all unfolds and the outcome of each show from the Crisis!"

Garrett also revealed that 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' will provide a lot of answers about the Monitor and thinks viewers will see him in a different light.

"Overall, I look at him as a good person – someone who is trying to do right," he explained. "His ways are not our ways, so the way he goes about certain things, it's going to rub people the wrong way.

"But he's trying to do a good thing, and I think when the 'Crisis' crossover starts and by the time it's done, people will have a different idea about the Monitor. You'll see a version of the Monitor that you've never seen before.

"And you might even have some compassion for the guy that you didn't have before, after you see where he came from and how he got to be the way he is."
*  *  *
As for the Anti-Monitor, the main villain in the crossover event, he's anything but good. According to Garrett, there are no redeeming qualities about the Anti-Monitor.

"The Anti-Monitor is pure evil," he said. "Everything he does is for one purpose, and it's annihilation. It's not for a greater good.

"In the Avengers movies, Thanos wanted to get rid of half the population so that the half that remained would have more resources. For him he was doing a good thing.

"The Anti-Monitor is nothing like that. He just wants everything dead and one universe to exist under his fingerprint. The way he designed it."

Edited by tv echo
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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

This was a long interview and I didn't quote everything, so you may wish to read the entire article...

Arrowverse's LaMonica Garrett Talks All Things Crisis, Getting the Part of The Monitor, and More
Sarah Little at November 1, 2019
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2019/11/arrowverses-lamonica-garrett-talks-all-things-crisis-getting-the/ 

 It sounds as though LaMonica had the time of his life doing Crisis!

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Starry

Starry

8 hours ago, Trini said:

I mean, the supposed 'bashing' was happening in all three parts last year, I don't think you can fault one set of writers.

Exactly. Barry joking around with Kara and throwing shade at Oliver for his playboy past happened in the Arrow episode. The Arrow writers also had Cisco say very nice things about WestAllen.

But I remain of the opinion that the "bashing" was their way of setting up Oliver as the hero of the crossover. In his scene with the Monitor he got the sympathetic edit. You see Oliver as this tormented and misunderstood soul that sacrifices himself for others.

10 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Where Cisco lost his brother, the Diggles daughter got erased and all Barry cared about was his kiss with Iris being erased.

10 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

And in the last season Barry knowing the consequences of time travel let his daughter from the future stay in the present time changing the present and the future how she seem fit. He didnt do this out of the kidness of his heart but selfish reasons, because his daughter adored Barry, while she gave Iris the cold shoulder.

This is not what happened and that's not the reason why he let his daughter stay in the past.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

FYI - crossover actors (and Arrowverse actors) at next weekend's comic cons...

Wizard World Austin, November 8-10, 2019 (TX)
Tom Welling, Erica Durance, Michael Rosenbaum, Kristin Kreuk, Laura Vandervoort, John Glover, Teddy Sears and Kelly Hu
https://wizardworld.com/comiccon/austin
Programming Schedule
-Sat. (11/9) at 1:30pm - Smallville Archrivals: A Reunion With Tom Welling, Michael Rosenbaum And John Glover
-Sat. (11/9) at 2:30pm - The Women Of Smallville: A Conversation With Kristin Kreuk, Erica Durance And Laura Vandervoort
-Sun. (11/10) at 12:00pm - Bringing DC Comics To TV With Drew Powell And Teddy Sears
-Sun. (11/10) at 1:00pm - Kelly Hu Is Awesome: A Conversation With Kelly Hu

GalaxyCon Minneapolis, November 8-10, 2019 (MN)
Alex Kingston, Kevin Conroy and John Wesley Shipp
https://minneapolis.galaxycon.com/guests/
Schedule of Events
-Fri. (11/8) at 2:45pm - Alex Kingston - Doctor Who, Arrow Q&A
-Sat. (11/9) at 4:45pm - Kevin Conroy - Batman The Animated Series Q&A
-Sun. (11/10) at 3:15pm - John Wesley Shipp - The Flash, Dawson's Creek Q&A

Edited by tv echo
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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

Yeah, sometimes "sacrifice myself" is Oliver's plan A and the team has to talk is suborn, dumb ass out of it. 

I think they did go extra hard on Oliver in Elseworlds as "the dark, gritty, grumpy one" in order to have him offer himself instead of "pure white hats Barry and Kara" but that's something he does all the time on Arrow as well and they really didn't need to go so full on pretending Oliver hadn't changed in outlook and personality at all from S1. - Where his plan was to die fulfilling his promise to his dead father. 

The way it was written it came across as Oliver thinking he was less worthy of living and more expendable than true superheroes, Barry and Kara. Which is in character but still frustrating that all the other characters in that crossover would nod their heads and agree. 

However since it's his swan song, I really don't mind that he's getting a sympathy/acknowledged big damn hero edit. When Grant bows out Barry will without a doubt get a massive one as well. 

Edited by Featherhat
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

No real spoilers in this interview, so read it if you want...

LaMonica Garrett Talks the Monitor, the Anti-Monitor, Crisis on Infinite Earths and More
By NICOLE DRUM - November 2, 2019
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/11/02/crisis-on-infinite-earths-lamonica-garrett-interview-arrowverse-/#1

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

DragonCon was August 29-September 2, 2019 - I believe this interview was recorded on Sep. 2...

Dragon Con 2019 - Marv Wolfman - Crisis on Infinite Earths
SpoilerTV   Nov. 2, 2019

-- On his reaction to hearing that they were doing COIE, MW: "I was blown away. I've been watching the CW show since Arrow, the very first one I've seen. I've watched every single episode of every one of the shows and they do such a good job, uh, telling the stories that - the Arrow show, Supergirl, Flash, all of them are just so wonderful that it's a thrill. I thought it was a thrill to do it, that they were doing it."

-- On COIE being such a massive comics story and what parts of it does he think they'll be able to incorporate into the television crossover, MW: "I have to be honest, I don't know. Uh, the comic - you know, every medium is different and I wrote the story with George Perez for a comic book. Uh, what the guys are doing for TV has got to be very different. But those people really love the material. They love the characters. They love the stories. It's obvious if you watch the CW shows how much they love the characters. So they're being as straightforward with the characters as they possible can be, considering that, instead of, say, um, Supergirl's there, there's Arrow there, there's - instead of, uh, um, you know, Superman from the Crisis episodes. they have a different character there. So, they're doing a phenomenal, uh, phenomenal job with it. And I can't, uh - frankly, I can't wait to see it."

-- On his involvement with the COIE crossover, MW: "I'm working with Marc Guggenheim on one of the episodes, yes."

-- On his favorite moment from the COIE comics, MW: "There were so many, but I think the strongest moments were certainly with Supergirl, the death of Supergirl and the death of Flash, because those had to be so carefully handled. I loved both of those characters so much and having to kill them off in many ways was very, very hard. And one of the things that thrilled me was, after we killed off Supergirl, people wrote and said that was the best Supergirl appearance they had read, that they really loved that one. So the fact that we were able to make that character resonate so strongly with so many people and that they really liked it really made it one of the most important moments in that entire series."

-- On what element of the COIE comics would he want them to definitely include in the COIE crossover, MW: "Again, since there's a different cast of characters, obviously, I had 400 characters I could use and they have only a certain number of characters they could use, I don't have any one specific event that I would like to see done by them. I just know that they're going to do it well, because I've been loving the regular CW shows on it."

-- On whether he had a favorite character, MW: "My all-time favorite character is Superman and I actually held him back the most." He added that he was writing a story to show how good the DC Universe was and that he got to write for a lot of characters that he didn't normally write for and, at the time, he was writing Superman. He also said that he got to write every character that he loved.

-- On whether he might want to follow in Stan Lee's footsteps and make a cameo appearance in the COIE television crossover, MW said that he worked for Stan Lee for many years and really liked him. He also said that Stan Lee was "very outgoing. I'm not." He then added: "If they did feature me, I would hope they would certainly feature me with George, since he was the co-creator of Crisis. George Perez. And that would be a lot of fun, but that's really up to them."

Edited by tv echo
MarkHB
Message added by MarkHB

This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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