Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[tv echo]

Posted yesterday...

[tv echo]

Ha, ha...

Edited April 10, 2019 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, bijoux said:

Is the photo with JM from the season premiere or do they actually bring kid Will back for the finale? 

Jack is wearing the hoodie he was wearing in the premiere and Emily's hair looks shorter than it appears to be now, so I think it was from the premiere. 

In any event, they are so adorable together. I'll never get over it.

[statsgirl]

For a minute I misread Andrea Sextos' instagram and though that RG and JH were done shooting Arrow for good, not just for s7, and I got all excited that finally we were done with Rene and Dinah.  Boo.

[BkWurm1]

The caption in the pic with EBR and Jack is how terrifying that now he's taller than her, which he isn't in this pic, so yeah, it's definitely an old photo.  

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

For a minute I misread Andrea Sextos' instagram and though that RG and JH were done shooting Arrow for good, not just for s7, and I got all excited that finally we were done with Rene and Dinah.  Boo.

Me too.   Though I can live in denial a bit longer and speculate that they wouldn't want to let it get out that they were leaving since it would be too big of a spoiler.  Crosses fingers.  

Edited April 10, 2019 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

For a minute I misread Andrea Sextos' instagram and though that RG and JH were done shooting Arrow for good, not just for s7, and I got all excited that finally we were done with Rene and Dinah.  Boo.

She still says it's their last day of shooting S7, not hers. Do they get offed in the future? I hope Roy makes it, but I can't find it in me to feel sorry about the other two's potential demise. 

[tv echo]

[Trisha]

TV Guide is speculating that Felicity will die in the flash-forwards:

Quote

When the flash-forwards were first introduced, current showrunner Beth Schwartz confirmed Arrow plans to continue using the story-telling device in future seasons, meaning we'll likely continue to play around in the world of 2040 next year. That's a world in which Felicity is very much alive (thankfully) and fighting crime with her two kids. Unfortunately, the show will have to write her out of that world as well, which might be harder to do. Felicity has already faked her death and gone into hiding once, so that's not likely to work again, and it's hard to imagine Felicity would bail on her kids and let them take down evil overlords all on their own, especially after proving this season that she's not exactly capable of giving up the vigilante lifestyle cold turkey.

[Kymmi]

I don't know, I just don't see them killing Felicity off.  Maybe I'm being naive, but the hardcore Felicity fanbase will likely keep tuning in for S8 just to see if she makes it back for the finale.  Otherwise, what's the point?  Why keep watching it?  I really like the next-gen bunch, but not sure if it's enough to get past the rage I would feel if they really killed Felicity off at the end of S7 (in the flash-forwards).  🤷‍♀️

[JamieLynn832002]

I have no iea how they'll write Felicity out of the FF but I refuse to believe the show is stupid enough to go with a real death and as @Kymmi says completely lose most Felicity fans.   Also does TV Guide really still believe Felicity faked her death and went into hiding? All the witnesses ended up dead and she was 'hiding' in a secret prison room in the evil headquarters...I'm pretty sure she wasn't the one who faked her death.

[Guest]

Sadly, that's what I've been thinking is gonna happen tbh. She'll do what Moira did. I hate it but I can't help it. 😔

It explains why she's not in the flashforwards in S8 as well as gives Mia another reason to become a vigilante like her parents and save the city. 🙄

I really hope I'm wrong. This is not the ending I want to see for Felicity after 20 years of hell and raising her daughter alone. PLEASE.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

27 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

She'll do what Moira did.

I’ve been thinking about this and I wonder if Rene will pull a Moira. He’s in a more identical position to Moira than Felicity*.

*Although I wouldn’t be surprised if she died. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they found a reason for her to be offscreen so that she can be reunited with Oliver whenever he returns from where he is. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I’ve been thinking about this and I wonder if Rene will pull a Moira. He’s in a more identical position to Moira than Felicity*.

*Although I wouldn’t be surprised if she died. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they found a reason for her to be offscreen so that she can be reunited with Oliver whenever he returns from where he is. 

It's possible. I never say never on this show anymore, haha. I think it could go either way. 

But you're right about Rene. He's done some bad things and sacrificing himself would be a way of making up for that, I guess? Plus RG did give off this really final vibe in a couple of his IG stories on his last day of filming. Maybe he knew he wouldn't be filming with the FF crew anymore? IDK. All spec, of course.

I honestly don't care if it's the lamest, most contrived reason they use to have Felicity disappear off screen in the future, as long as it leaves hope/potential open for her to be reunited with Oliver in the end. I'd rather the future was erased completely but I get the sense they don't want to do that so I'll take my reunion 20 years later instead, if that's possible. Le sigh.

I'm still bracing myself for the worst to happen though. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Guest

[jay741982]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I’ve been thinking about this and I wonder if Rene will pull a Moira. He’s in a more identical position to Moira than Felicity*.

*Although I wouldn’t be surprised if she died. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they found a reason for her to be offscreen so that she can be reunited with Oliver whenever he returns from where he is. 

Story wise I agree with you and think Rene would(should IMO 😄) Pull a Moria the Parallel is there with having cooperated with Evil and wanting to Atone. But like @Angel12d fears I also fear we could get another "Close your eyes Baby" but this time from Felicity as we know Felicity would give her life for William and Mia. I just hope to God we get something like Oliver showing up in FF to whisk her away. But still fear She dies to give Mia more reasons to be a Vilgante 

[Chaser]

Maybe the Monitor shows up in the Future and takes Felicity.

[kes0704]

I was already uncertain about watching a S8 without Felicity, but ending S7 by killing her off in the flash forwards would remove that uncertainty - I’d be out. It would also influence any possibility of my watching a spin-off with the next generation.

They’ve killed off a lot of female characters (and a lot of characters in general) and killing off Felicity wouldn’t be inspired writing it would just be more of the same. I’m holding onto hope that Beth can think of a more creative way to explain Felicity’s absence than going down the same old pathway of death as the reason.

[Trisha]

I’m pretty sure the same TVG writer theorized that Mia grew up without Oliver in her life because he died, went back to prison, or divorced Felicity so she may just be a half-glass empty kind of person. Also, I’m betting outlets are going to spin as many Felicity-based stories while she’s still on the air because they know she brings in clicks.

That being said, I have no idea if they’ll kill her in the flash forwards or not.  Either way, I hope we find out in the season finale. I know Beth said they’d explain her absence, but I don’t know if that applies to both timelines or just the present. 

[JamieLynn832002]

I can only really see it happening if the FFs are going to be undone by COIE or something else. There are already (valid) complaints that the FFs give the impression that nothing Oliver, Felicity and the rest of the team sacrificed and worked for in the last 7 years amount to jack, doubling down on that by killing Felicity the same way Moira died just seems like a terrible plan. Especially when you have another season you need people to show up for.

Edited April 12, 2019 by JamieLynn832002
forgot to delete sentence

[Chaser]

I don’t think Beth would have described Emily’s last episode like she did if they were writing a sad one. I think she would have used words like ‘bittersweet’ instead. 

If the show was going on another couple years and Emily was clear that she wouldn’t return, then I could see a death. 

[statsgirl]

In one of the interviews Beth was asked which character did she see as most like herself and she answered "Felicity".  Just sayin'.

[tv echo]

This MG tumblr post* was published during Season 5 (between 519 and 520) - I hope he still feels this way (yes, I know Beth is the showrunner but MG is still "executive consultant", and, yes, I know MG was joking)...

Quote

laurelxlance asked:
answer this question truthfully; why can't Felicity die?

Because she’s immortal.  Duh.

445 notes   May 1st, 2017

https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/160217166519/answer-this-question-truthfully-why-cant#notes

(* I saw this MG comment posted on twitter but without the source cite link.)

Edited April 12, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

'Arrow' Named Its Season 7 "Springsteen Episode" After "Living Proof" -- And That's Actually A Big Deal
By RUSS BURLINGAME - April 11, 2019
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/04/11/arrow-living-proof-springsteen/

Quote

For the seventh year in a row, Arrow's penultimate episode of the season will be named after a Bruce Springsteen song -- and this time, fans will likely be very curious to know exactly how the song parallels the contents of the episode. Season seven, episode 21 of Arrow will be titled "Living Proof," named after a song on Springsteen's "Lucky Town" album, one of two "twin" albums released together in March 1992. "Living Proof" is a dense song that covers a lot of territory, but given that Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) is pregnant in the show, fans will likely zero in on the song's first verse.

It goes, "Well now, on a summer night, oh in a dusky room/Come a little piece of the Lord's undying light/Crying like he swallowed the fiery moon/In his mother's arms it was all the beauty I could take/Like the missing words to some prayer that I could never make/Oh, in a world so hard and dirty, so fouled and confused/Searching for a little bit of God's mercy/I found living proof." That verse is pretty unambiguously about the joy that the narrator (possibly Springsteen himself, given what was going on in his life at the time) felt about the birth of his child.

Since "Living Proof" will be the penultimate episode of Arrow season seven, which began with Oliver in prison, there is also this nugget of lyrics from later in the song to consider: "You shot through my anger and rage/To show me my prison was just an open cage/There were no keys, no guards/Oh, just one frightened man and some old shadows for bars." While it would likely be a mistake to take that part too literally -- after all, the prison arc has been over for some time now -- the "prison" in the song was never literal, either, and certainly Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) is a character who allows himself to be caged by his own passion, anger, and myopia -- something he has been trying to work on this season.
*  *  *
The use of "Living Proof" might suggest that the episode will center on Mia (Katherine McNamara), the child of Oliver and Felicity who has taken center stage in the flash-foward storyline. Some Olicity fans might hope for a time jump that would allow the Olicity baby to be born before or during the finale which will follow "Living Proof," although that feels unlikely given that we already saw a version of the baby's birth in a previous episode this season.

Edited April 12, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Fan's report of being on Arrow set on April 9 (EBR's last day)...

alliemarie_xf
Posted Apr. 10, 2019
https://allimariexf.tumblr.com/post/184094978453/as-many-of-you-know-i-was-at-the-arrow-7x22

Quote

As many of you know, I was at the Arrow 7x22 filming that took place in North Vancouver on Tuesday, April 9 at the “Olicity cabin.”
*  *  *
When the crew came over to where we were, they talked to us (they were super nice all day!) and I assured them I was there to see what I could see, and we planned to follow the rules. I asked about photos, they said “NOPE,” and I didn’t take any more photos on set that day (except for the one below 😏 which was fully authorized).
*  *  *
So we were hanging out with a great view of the Olicity cabin and the fence around the property. We could see into the property too, and there we saw an archery target set up in the cabin’s backyard. (That might be a spoiler, but Canadagraphs or whatever that site is already leaked photos of it  so whatever).

The actors were brought onto set in tinted-window SUVs that would drive up, turn around in the narrow street, and back up onto the property to let them out. I didn’t realize that actors were being dropped off the first 2 times it happened, so I missed the first two actors that got dropped off. I am pretty sure one of them was Stephen, because I never saw him arrive. I did see Emily arrive!

AND - this has been leaked by that paparazzi dude, too, so I might as well share - I saw LaMonica Garrett arrive. Discord friends can attest that I freaked the fuck out. Because FUCK. The second I saw him walk out of his SUV, I was just like 😱😱😱
*  *  *
During the “morning” (until I walked up to get lunch around 3:30), 4 or 5 - I think 5 - scenes were shot. I’m pretty sure they were all indoor. I was able to hear details about who were in the scenes and where they were for some of the scenes, but I wasn’t able to watch because everything was inside or behind the fence. Around 1 PM we heard them say that David was due on set, but hadn’t arrived yet. At that point, I started getting concerned about exactly who he was and wasn’t going to film with and what it would all mean.

Throughout the day, Stephen and Emily (and LaMonica in the whole Monitor get-up!) would occasionally walk out. It was very cool, and also bittersweet, because it was Emily’s last day filming.
*  *  *
At one point a woman arrived and introduced herself to the crew as “Diane” - it was Emily’s mom. Later, Stephen left the set, walking up the hill to the road, and when he came back, Stephen and Emily’s friend Carina was with him. At some point his wife and daughter arrived, too.  

Around 3 or 3:30, everyone (cast and crew and guests) gathered around in the cabin’s backyard (behind a fence, alas) and I could tell that Emily was speaking, but I couldn’t hear what she said. Probably other people spoke too. There were intermittent rounds of applause.

After that, Stephen came over to me and my husband and chatted with us and we took a photo:

After that, a lot of the crew seemed to take a break, and it was clear they were preparing to shoot outside the house (they took down a lot of the equipment that was attached to the house for the indoor shoot). ...
*  *  *
By then it was maybe 4:00 or so and we kinda thought that Stephen was done filming for the day, but a crewmember had confirmed that Emily would still be shooting for the rest of the day, so we went back down to the set to see what we could see. I can’t remember if David had shown up at that point, but we knew he was still going to be filming, and I was crossing my fingers like crazy that he was going to film with both Emily and Stephen, but I was worried it might only be Emily.

When we got back to “our” spot outside the set, they had removed all the cables and equipment that previously had bordered the property. A second later, we found out why when a crewmember walked over - they were going to be filming outside, including the area where we had been standing all day.

And then they invited us to come on set.

SO WE WENT ON SET.
*  *  *
Those of you who are on the Discord server can (or have) read more about it, but honestly words can never do justice to how cool it was. So instead I’m just gonna list some things:

• we were there for a total of one hour
• I obviously didn’t get any photos because they made us put our phones away, of course
• *  *  *
• we also got introduced to actors, including:
• David Ramsey!!!!! who talked to us and shook our hands
• Caity Lotz! (Whose presence I wouldn’t have spoiled except that Carina already spoiled it on her instagram account, so I might as well share it now). She also shook our hands and talked to us.
• *  *  *
• since we were right in the middle of the action for an hour, we saw a bunch of people coming and going, and standing around right next to us, including all the actors mentioned above, and Stephen, and his family (wife and daughter who, along with Caity, were seated right next to us for awhile - you can actually see on Carina’s instagram video the exact spot where we were standing - right by the metal leg of the pop-up canopy), and Emily! (more on that below)
• the crewmember who had adopted us asked us if we had tried craft service, and when we said “no,” she basically insisted (lol) that we go to the craft service table and partake. (Seriously, they were so nice!). AND GUESS WHAT?? (Aside from watching the filming this is the other thing I will NEVER BE OVER). EMILY’S GOODBYE CAKE WAS THERE and they told us to have some!!! (The cake had a piece of chocolate on it with writing on it that said “Thanks for 7 Smoakin years” 😭😭😭😭) SO. YOU GUYS. I CUT A PIECE OF CAKE FOR MYSELF FROM EMILY’S CAKE. I TOOK A SLICE OF EMILY’S GOODBYE CAKE. I STILL CANNOT BELIEVE IT.)
• *  *  *
• at one point after we had our cake, Emily walked by and looked at us and I kinda smiled at her and she said, “I heard it’s good!” (So, while I never did get to talk to her or get a photo, she did talk to me lol)

*  *  *
That’s basically it. We stayed another hour or so after that, and we watched another scene be filmed from afar, but after that they needed us to go up the hill to get out of the shot, and we couldn’t see anything anymore. By then it had been a very, very long day and we had already had an amazing experience, so we decided to leave without trying to wait for Emily. We figured she was having an emotionally exhausting day, not to mention a busy day, with a full day of filming plus friends and family on set, so we decided the odds of us actually getting to see her were probably small anyway. So, with only that one regret, we left.

Edited April 12, 2019 by tv echo

[bijoux]

One, is that Oliver's happy times hoodie from the S4 premiere? Two, CL was there? Sara takes someone, Oliver or Felicity, on board the ship? 

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, bijoux said:

One, is that Oliver's happy times hoodie from the S4 premiere? Two, CL was there? Sara takes someone, Oliver or Felicity, on board the ship? 

She's been following Bamford around for the last 2 weeks, maybe she's learning how to be a director like DR did for awhile before they gave him an episode

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

She's been following Bamford around for the last 2 weeks, maybe she's learning how to be a director like DR did for awhile before they gave him an episode

That makes sense. I'd love for the show to use Legends whisking Felicity to safety as a way to explain her absence next year, but that's probably too much to hope for. The person mentioned that Carina already spoiled Caity's presence in an IG video. I didn't see it -- was there any clues if she was acting, or just visiting?

I love how nice the cast and crew were to her and her husband, especially since it was probably a high-stress day.

[JJ928]

Someone on twitter said Carina said Caity was shadowing Bamford, so Morrigan2575 is right.

[apinknightmare]

Quote

As Captain of the SCPD, Dinah (Juliana Harkavy) investigates what happened in an episode that takes on a true crime narrative and tone. 

Yes, awesome. Sounds riveting and amazing. 

At least Roy's back? 

[way2interested]

That's sad. I mean, she was able to describe 713 without a mention of the FF or hinting at Curtis leaving or even that Stan was the villain and didn't need to add "in an episode that takes on a true horror narrative and tone." Just say the damage kicks off an investigation., mentioning the episode "narrative and tone" is ridiculous. 

[insomniadreams88]

Happy Roy is back in the present. But other than that, don’t really care about this episode after reading that description. 

[KenyaJ]

Yes! We are getting Baby Mia in 722. And it’s a real, live baby, LOL. 

[lemotomato]

I hope that’s what the baby wears on screen. The little ears on the hood! 

[kes0704]

There are so few episodes left in S7 that the idea of an episode of Dinah investigating what happened in a failed operation against the Ninth Circle doesn’t seem like the best use of the time. 

The episode descriptions have been all over the place this season so hopefully “Dinah investigates” has the same amount of focus as “Oliver invites Laurel to investigate” did. I’d much rather the writers spend time on the content of the episodes being entertaining than experimenting with the style and tone of them.

[Guest]

Roy coming back is cool but do we really need another episode of Dinah investigating? We're so close to the end of the season I'm annoyed we're spending any time at all on Captain Smug Face. No thank you goodbye. 

Also I really hope we get some cute moments with Olicity and baby Mia in 722. I need to see Oliver hold his daughter. I need it. 😭

Edited April 13, 2019 by Guest

[statsgirl]

12 hours ago, tv echo said:

at one point after we had our cake, Emily walked by and looked at us and I kinda smiled at her and she said, “I heard it’s good!” (So, while I never did get to talk to her or get a photo, she did talk to me lol)

She couldn't eat any of her own cake? I know actresses have to be ridiculously thin, but it's her own goodbye cake!

[way2interested]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

She couldn't eat any of her own cake? I know actresses have to be ridiculously thin, but it's her own goodbye cake!

They got their pieces while EBR was still working and she probably was in that dialogue scene they were asked to leave in.

Edited April 13, 2019 by way2interested

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

From Wellington Armageddon - this is unconfirmed (hoping there's video)...

Edited April 13, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

Sadly I can see them having Felicity pull a Moira as "full circle" but the Monitor being there is certainly Intriguing and more hopeful. Certainly I don't think Beth would think think people would love it. I guess it depends on if they think they can get her back for an appearance in S8 or they're filming ahead for a final S8 scene whilst they've still got her or they know she is completely done.

[BkWurm1]

I would be shocked if they killed Felicity in the FF's.  It's just too easy to explain an absence since she already has a huge target on her back which could simply make her ineffective and a too big a liability to keep in Star City.  She'd be inclined to resist leaving but if she was actually putting her kids at risk staying, she'd go. 

Killing Felicity off would have a shock factor for a short time but Felicity just being at risk would be good motivation for Mia to commit to saving the city cause it would keep her mom safe too.  I just don't think the writers would seen enough of an upside to killing Felicity.  Why deliberately delete the goodwill of a major section of the fan base when it's not needed to further the story?

And while technically Felicity Smoak existed in the comics, she's really Arrow's legacy character along with Diggle.  I don't see them wanting to mess that up with a last minute fridging.      

[BkWurm1]

[statsgirl]

47 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I just don't think the writers would seen enough of an upside to killing Felicity.  Why deliberately delete the goodwill of a major section of the fan base when it's not needed to further the story?

A fanbase that just raised a ton of money to put up two billboards in Times Square, publicity that the show would not otherwise have got.

There's no benefit in alienating a group that intense and that vocal on social media.

[Trini]

They're not killing Felicity. Oliver seems very likely to die, though. But it's not going to stick.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Trini

[PWHCHCH]

16 hours ago, tv echo said:

From Wellington Armageddon - this is unconfirmed (hoping there's video)...

Um I was also at the Armageddon panel and that’s not what he said at all. He said “yeah I’ll be appearing in season 9... That’s a joke cause you know arrow has been cancelled right?”

[tv echo]

In the least surprising news, it sounds like KC will be returning for S8...

Katie Cassidy dishes on her fate on ‘Arrow’
Marwa Hamad, Senior Reporter   April 14, 2019
https://gulfnews.com/entertainment/hollywood/katie-cassidy-dishes-on-her-fate-on-arrow-1.63326819

Quote

As the penultimate season seven draws to a close in May, fans have speculated about whether Cassidy, who has played Laurel Lance, Black Canary and Black Siren in the series, would be killed off yet again, or whether she will return to season eight, or even get her own spin-off show.
*  *  *
Speaking onstage at the Middle East Film and Comic Con, Cassidy said she would be onboard with a spin-off.

Sitting down with Gulf News tabloid!, the actress was vague but teased big things to come: “We’re doing our [eighth and] final season of ‘Arrow’, which will take us to November. I can’t say more yet, until I get the showrunners’ thumbs up, but there’s some pretty exciting things coming up for me.”

Cassidy was also quizzed on upcoming episode ‘Lost Canary’, airing on April 15, at a panel.
*  *  *
“I like my job, I don’t want to say anything I can’t say and I don’t want to get killed again! They’ve killed me off and brought me back twice already. It’s awesome,” the actress joked.

“It’s a big episode, I think that you will find out a lot about Black Siren and her backstory, but they also leave it open to potentially exploring more of that, potentially in season eight, but it’s a huge episode. It’s fun,” added Cassidy.

ETA: GATV picked up on this Gulf News article and re-quoted from it.

And from KC panel at Middle East Film & Comic Con on April 13... 

Edited April 15, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[Soulfire]

[insomniadreams88]

Yes, give me all the Felicity/Sara scenes, especially to make up for that crossover where they basically only walked off together and we didn’t see them talk at all and the other crossovers where they didn’t interact at all.  

I may have been annoyed by how much Sara was in S2, but I do remember really liking a Felicity/Sara deleted scene and wishing we’d gotten more of their friendship on-screen. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't care about any version of Laurel or Dinah, but: 

Quote

Nowadays, though, “frenemy perfectly describes their relationship,” says Dinah’s portrayer, Juliana Harkavy. “Laurel has come a long way, but there’s always that little question between them, and that history.”

That complicated history will be agitated anew when Laurel’s public shaming prompts her to leap off the redemption train and launch a crime spree with onetime cohort Shadow Thief (guest star Carmel Amit). “Dinah, more than anybody, is not surprised to hear it,” Harkavy previews. “Because as much faith as she has put in Laurel changing, and as much as she tries to forgive her, there’s just nobody else she would expect this [reversal] to come from more.”

Although Harkavy affirms that Felicity (played by exiting Arrow vet Emily Bett Rickards) — who more than anyone has championed Laurel’s turnabout — “might get one or two ‘told you so’s” from Dinah, EP Schwartz says that Felicity will remain “pretty strong in her conviction of trying to redeem her. As much as Laurel has been there for her, she’s trying to be there for Laurel.”

SHUT

UP

DINAH

[statsgirl]

That's nice continuity with Sara's and Felicity's relationship. And CL is doing the salmon ladder with greater ease. Nice snark from Sara "my real sister's name"

It's funny that they used Felicity to introduce Barry to get the audience to like him, and then for Ray and 6 seasons they're still doing it with Felicity being the one to believe in BSLaurel.

So both Black Canary and Black Siren with be Oliver's partners next season? No wonder SA was so distressed at losing EBR. I have the feeling I won't be engaging much with the jubilant fandom on social media next season.