Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[Trisha]

16 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I have zero hype going into the finale, I'm not even sure what we're building up towards. 

They might be building towards the city turning against the vigilantes one last time (murdering and/or covering up the deaths of two innocents might be a bridge too far), but if that's the case there was so little build up to that. And the "big bad" didn't even contribute to it. It's not like Emiko planned for Roy to kill the guards; she just took advantage of the situation. So if this is where the finale/S8 is leading, it feels really unearned.

[apinknightmare]

I love that Oliver is hallucinating Tommy with facial hair

[Trisha]

It's so weird that they would spoil this in the promo stills. I'm guessing this gives less credence to the theories that Tommy is coming back in S8 if they're using him in this ep?

So we're really gonna have the 2nd from the last Olicity episode ever with him trapped under rubble for most of it, huh? Sigh. 

[Angel12d]

LOL at Tommy with facial hair.  

Eh. I'm not really a Tommy fan so this does nothing for me. I'm more interested in any Felicity and Olicity scenes seeing as we're running out of time with them. It's kinda annoying that they'll be apart for most of 721 so that just leaves us one episode. Sigh. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Angel12d

[insomniadreams88]

I still wish we’d gotten Felicity/Tommy scenes or could get them in the future. 

But yes, the facial hair is amusing. 

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

I love that Oliver is hallucinating Tommy with facial hair

Now I'm wondering exactly what Oliver thinks Tommy would be like at this point if he had lived. Didn't they pay CD enough to shave his beard?

Cognitively I understand that they want a parallel of Oliver seeing Tommy when the building collapses to match how Tommy died at the end of season 1. Aren't they clever?

Emotionally I'm furious that they're wasting EBR's second last episode keeping Oliver and Felicity apart from each other.

[insomniadreams88]

And don't forget — the finale is probably going to have at least several action scenes, so I doubt we’ll get enough Olicity content (at least to satisfy me) then, either. At this point, I don’t even care about Felicity/Diggle scenes, so I fully expect to get one in the finale, the time of which I’ll probably rather see dedicated to Olicity or Felicity/William/Mia in the future. 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm glad to see the tradition continue of having Colin in at least 1 episode of every season.

[kes0704]

Tommy’s surprise! returns are so frequent (at least 6 since his S1 death) and combined with the fact that it’s Felicity’s second last episode and they’re handing out the minimum of Olicity content, I’m finding it very hard to care and wonder why we’re wasting time on this in the run up to the finale.

The season finale itself sounds jam packed going by Beth’s description on TVLine. The flash forward characters have a finale, the present day characters have a finale and there’s action, action, action and surprise character returns. Will they be able to fit everything into 42 minutes without rushing on through? The pacing of the story on this show will always confuse me.

In any case, I’m going to try and keep my expectations set to low and hopefully be pleasantly surprised by what they deliver.

Edited May 3, 2019 by kes0704

[Mellowyellow]

From Colin's tweet it sounds like he has a lot of scenes with SA.

Which means there is barely going to be any Olicity despite it being EBR's second last episode. We're gonna get Tommy and Oliver. Loooots of it. 

Are they going out of their way to spite the vocal fanbase at this point? Seriously it boggles the mind. 

[apinknightmare]

28 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Are they going out of their way to spite the vocal fanbase at this point? Seriously it boggles the mind.

No. 

Beth has said herself that she loves Felicity/Olicity, and I don’t think she’s ever done anything that makes it seem like that’s not true. This show has never been great at managing its time or storylines well, and this isn’t any different. They have two episodes to close out a shitload of storylines because of that awful time management. Much as I personally would’ve enjoyed a farewell extravaganza with Felicity/Olicity-focused storylines, that wasn’t ever going to happen.

[Mellowyellow]

37 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

No. 

Beth has said herself that she loves Felicity/Olicity, and I don’t think she’s ever done anything that makes it seem like that’s not true. This show has never been great at managing its time or storylines well, and this isn’t any different. They have two episodes to close out a shitload of storylines because of that awful time management. Much as I personally would’ve enjoyed a farewell extravaganza with Felicity/Olicity-focused storylines, that wasn’t ever going to happen.

I get what you're saying but she knew EBR was leaving. How hard would it have been to plan for an Olicity episode or even a few scenes?

Imo the Olicity we got this season was rushed and minor compared to previous seasons. 

She may be mouthing that she likes Olicity but she can't like them that much if they are low on the rung of priorities.

Don't get me started on the 150th ep which basically baited fans and delivered no Olicity or OTA content. 

Obviously non of this matters since Beth will continue to produce rubbish that she deems to be dark and clever and get her pay cheque. It's just such a pity that it ended this way. I'm sad 😣😢😭

Edited May 3, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I get what you're saying but she knew EBR was leaving. How hard would it have been to plan for an Olicity episode or even a few scenes?

She may be mouthing that she likes Olicity but she can't like them that much if they are low on the rung of priorities.

We did get a few scenes. Some pretty great ones, in fact, especially post-pregnancy in 15 and 18. I get being dissatisfied - I would've liked to have seen more too! But acting like we haven't gotten anything is just silly, especially when the alternative could've really been getting nothing. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

We did get a few scenes. Some pretty great ones, in fact, especially post-pregnancy in 15 and 18. I get being dissatisfied - I would've liked to have seen more too! But acting like we haven't gotten anything is just silly, especially when the alternative could've really been getting nothing. 

Ahh see to me they were better than nothing but still rushed so they really weren't anything great. Better than a show I don't care to name (applying really low standards here) but extremely poor compared to other shows I watch considering they are the lead couple and an extremely popular ship.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ahh see to me they were better than nothing but still rushed so they really weren't anything great. Better than a show I don't care to name (applying really low standards here) but extremely poor compared to other shows I watch considering they are the lead couple and an extremely popular ship.

Eh, well - agree to disagree. I would always be happy for more, but I thought they were great for what they were and definitely better than the nothing that some other shows get. 

I never argued that Olicity was a priority for Beth, just that she likes Felicity and the ship, so the idea of her sitting in a room with the other writers specifically going out of their way to spite people is ludicrous to me. She's just a terrible planner, like Marc and Wendy were before her. It shows in literally every other storyline in this show, not just Olicity.

[Mellowyellow]

Perhaps not spite but I do wonder if she wants to cut loose the old fanbase who are very attached to Olicity/Felicity and fish for a new audience. 

If they decide they don't want the old fanbase and are happy for them to drop off (no more annoying passionate messages about Olicity/Felicity) this could be their way of doing that. At least that's what some of the choices indicate.

[apinknightmare]

There's no way that Beth wants to cut loose any part of Arrow's fanbase when the show only has 12 episodes left. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by apinknightmare

[Mellowyellow]

Well she's doing a good job of it.  From what I'm seeing on Twitter she's managed to kill a lot of nostalgia/fondness people had around these episodes being Felicity's last few eps.

Now it's "What shit do you plan to enrage me with next week? 🤔"

[apinknightmare]

The cast and crew’s farewell on social media may have raised some people’s expectation that the show was going to make a bigger deal out of it than it is, but there’s no way Beth is intentionally trying to turn these fans off of watching the show. 

[jay741982]

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

The cast and crew’s farewell on social media may have raised some people’s expectation that the show was going to make a bigger deal out of it than it is, but there’s no way Beth is intentionally trying to turn these fans off of watching the show. 

I get this but overloading Basically Hated Rene and Dinah with even more screen time that shouldve been given to OTA and Olicity is something they should know wasnt gonna fly with viewers. It really goes with my theory that SA EBR and DR were possibly wanting this to be the last season and starting checking out Mentally but then they got Steven to agree to another short season and EBR just decided to bolt cause of her play getting more dates . Wouldnt be surprised if all 3 asked for lighter screen time 

[Trisha]

I think that Beth is an Olicity fan, but above all else she’s a Felicity fan. So even though the Olicity moments have been a bit sparse the last couple of episodes (and I also blame SA for his continued reluctance to be as touchy freely with EBR as she is with him), we’ve had some GREAT Felicity moments all season. Even when the descriptions made it seem like it wouldn’t be about her (the sirens ep, etc) she’s consistently a bigger part of most eps than what we’ve been used to the last couple of years.

Arrow typically suffers from a post-winter finale slump, but this season it’s like they moved the mid season slump to closer to the end of the season. All of the last few eps have been fine, but I’d much have preferred the ep focused on Dig, the Usual Suspects rip-off, the siren focused one, etc if they aired after the winter break instead. Airing at this point in the season makes them frustrating because we still don’t have enough of a grasp on the big picture, so it makes them feel like filler. Pacing/timing has always been Arrow’s kryptonite but it’s especially bad this year. 

[tv echo]

Spoiling Tommy's 'surprise' cameo in 721 before that episode airs just reeks of a desperation move to boost sagging ratings for the show.

[tv echo]

[calliope1975]

I bet Oliver tells hallucination Tommy about the baby. And none for NTA. 

[apinknightmare]

I wonder if Oliver's ever going to remember that he has a kid outside the womb that he hasn't heard from in over two months or nah

[tv echo]

Two 721 sneak peek scenes, one featuring Oliver and Tommy, and one featuring flashforward with Felicity, Mia, William, Dinah and Roy...

'Arrow': Oliver Gets Some (Chicago) Medical Attention From an Old Friend (VIDEO)
Damian Holbrook May 06, 2019
https://www.tvinsider.com/774879/arrow-season-7-episode-21-colin-donnell-tommy-merlyn-video/  

Arrow | Living Proof Scene | The CW
Published on May 6, 2019, by The CW Network

Edited May 6, 2019 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

It's a fine line between an Easter Egg and giving the actors and writers the present rather than the audience.  That scene was a gift to SA and CD, not to me.

Poor William, he's so angry at Felicity and she's just trying to protect him still.

I wonder if one of the reasons Oliver and Felicity didn't contact William in all those years is because they didn't want him to be in danger.  Still doesn't explain why they didn't contact him in the months after he left though.

[Angel12d]

Sigh. I hate the flashforwards so much. Felicity dying in the future seems so obvious that I want to hope it's intentionally too obvious and they'll write her off another way but then I remember this is Arrow and I'm like 😔

Also I don't care about Tommy so meh. But if they're really gonna spend all of Oliver's screentime on this (and not with his wife in the 2 episodes we have left), I hope it actually reveals something relevant.

[insomniadreams88]

15 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Sigh. I hate the flashforwards so much. Felicity dying in the future seems so obvious that I want to hope it's intentionally too obvious and they'll write her off another way but then I remember this is Arrow and I'm like 😔

Also I don't care about Tommy so meh. But if they're really gonna spend all of Oliver's screentime on this (and not with his wife in the 2 episodes we have left), I hope it actually reveals something relevant.

I agree with all of this. Oliver and Felicity deserve to live happily ever after and I’m not getting the sense they will, even in the future. 

And as much as I do enjoy the Oliver and Tommy scene, I’ll be annoyed if we get all of those scenes, then Oliver with the team, and finally, a way too short Oliver/Felicity scene at the end of the episode that will probably cut too early for my liking to a depressing FF. 

[calliope1975]

I have a feeling my live chat comments will be filled with irritation, frustration, and anger with one positive thing I like. So, you know, the norm. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by calliope1975

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Sigh. I hate the flashforwards so much. Felicity dying in the future seems so obvious that I want to hope it's intentionally too obvious and they'll write her off another way but then I remember this is Arrow and I'm like 😔

Whether they have EBR booked for some episodes next year or not (and they'd better) it would be incredibly stupid kill Felicity off and end the hope that she could come back.  Just look at how the audience is dropping off just knowing that she's not a regular next season.* Incredibly stupid.

So yeah, not ruling it out.

*I know, the change in time is affecting it too. But I still get the sense that people are giving up on the show now.

[Mellowyellow]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Whether they have EBR booked for some episodes next year or not (and they'd better) it would be incredibly stupid kill Felicity off and end the hope that she could come back.  Just look at how the audience is dropping off just knowing that she's not a regular next season.* Incredibly stupid.

So yeah, not ruling it out.

*I know, the change in time is affecting it too. But I still get the sense that people are giving up on the show now.

You make perfect sense hun but you do realise your logic banks on them NOT being stupid.

Now what are the odds of that based on what we've seen this season 🤔

Eta: I don't think they care. Beth has her deal and probably would rather retain her crappy creative licence than worry about viewing numbers. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[JamieLynn832002]

Please tell me I imagined Emily/Felicity not even being in the promo for her final episode. I don't think I even saw her in the group shots.

[Primal Slayer]

Finally, Laurel is back again. Probably for like 2 seconds knowing them.

[jay741982]

6 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

Please tell me I imagined Emily/Felicity not even being in the promo for her final episode. I don't think I even saw her in the group shots.

Of course Not. We have to see more Rene Dinah and BS 

[Primal Slayer]

Rene was surprisingly not in the promo.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Rene was surprisingly not in the promo.

If only he was surprisingly not on the show anymore. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

If only he was surprisingly not on the show anymore. 

That we can 100% agree on.

[insomniadreams88]

There’s way too much that needs to be in the season finale for it to give Felicity/EBR the sendoff she deserves. 

[Trisha]

I’m wondering now if that talk with Alena is going to mean that Felicity goes into hiding not because she has to but because she wants to. I thought it was because of the police warrant but it looks like the SCPD “slaughter” might take care of that (what was even the point of last week, show?!) And I’m assuming the threat of Emiko is neutralized next week.

But if it’s just a choice that she and Oliver make, it’ll come out of nowhere. The writers could have showed William safe and thriving with his grandparents to drive home the notion that the bunker is no place for a happy childhood but they just ... didn’t? 

[apinknightmare]

13 minutes ago, Trisha said:

But if it’s just a choice that she and Oliver make, it’ll come out of nowhere. The writers could have showed William safe and thriving with his grandparents to drive home the notion that the bunker is no place for a happy childhood but they just ... didn’t? 

Yeah, they had the perfect opportunity to have Oliver and Felicity take a quick trip to Central City to check up on William since they couldn't get in touch with him, and to see him happy and having fun like a normal kid or something, but I guess it was just more important to use a whole episode to set up Roy being Lazarus Pitted, and Oliver having a dream conversation that he's had with like twenty other people already!

If there isn't an external threat that drives them into hiding, then...I really don't get the point of keeping Mia a secret from the rest of the team, especially right after their Mark of 4 thing. I mean, we know Rene and Dinah are untrustworthy assholes, but the show isn't treating them that way in the present. Oliver and Felicity don't seem to have a problem with them at all. Do O/F just tell them they're giving up the vigilante life and everyone's like, "Okay bye, we have these tattoos but we're never gonna keep in touch!"

[tv echo]

722 promo...

Edited May 7, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Felicity's absence from the flashforwards next season could be explained in one of four ways:

1. Future Felicity dies in next week's episode (S7 finale), saving William and/or her children. 
2. Future Felicity is captured (again) by Galaxy One and disappears (again), while her children search for her to rescue her (again).
3. Future Felicity goes back into hiding and lets her children take over the fight against Galaxy One (like, maybe she is seriously injured but alive).
4. Future Felicity finds a clue that Oliver is still alive and goes off to search for him, letting her children take over the fight against Galaxy One.

As discussed previously, I favor Option #3 or #4, which would each tie in nicely with next week's episode title, "You Have Saved This City," with the coda from her children: "Now It's Our Turn."

Of course, that title would also work if they killed Future Felicity and her children are by her side, consoling her that she's done enough for the city and that it's now their turn.

Ugh, I'm really afraid of how they're going to explain Future Felicity's absence next season.

And now I'm dreading next week's episode, because I don't know which way they'll go with Felicity's final episode.

Edited May 7, 2019 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

I've said it before, there is just no long term upside to killing Felicity in the future.  Sending her offscreen but leaving her alive comes with too many benefits and no negatives that I can conceive of while killing her will only cause problems among viewers and in the show's narrative. 

If she's dead then they might as well take out their own billboard in Times Square that Oliver dies in the crossover.  If they want to preserve any mystery, they can't kill Felicity in the future.  No matter which direction Oliver's story takes, they will want to keep hope alive for his future in the meantime and killing Felicity ends any chance at him getting any kind of happy ending.  

Edited May 7, 2019 by BkWurm1

[Featherhat]

I don't know I could see them killing Felicity off and having Oliver alive and making it to the FFs in the last episode to be with his kids and saying he and Felicity met/were together in secret over the years and now he gets to help them save the city. Who knows Arrow zigs when it should zag and sometimes writes the mist depressing storyline in the most by the numbers boring fashion. 

[tv echo]

This reviewer has a different interpretation of 722's title (personally, I think it more likely that Future Diggle will be the one to come to the rescue in the flashforward)...

‘Arrow’ Season 7, Episode 21 “Living Proof” Is D.O.A., Feels a Little ‘Lost’ [SPOILER REVIEW]
Posted by Joey Mills May 7, 2019
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/05/07/arrow-season-7-episode-21-living-proof-is-d-o-a-feels-a-little-lost-spoiler-review/ 

Quote

During his hallucination, Oliver saw that killing Emiko is metaphysically/metaphorically the same as killing the people who he loves. Is anyone going to be shocked when Oliver lets Emiko go in the present timeline next week and she shows up to save the captured Felicity, Will, Mia, et al in the future timeline? Isn’t that who’s being referenced in the episode title “You Have Saved This City”?

Edited May 7, 2019 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

[insomniadreams88]

I'd hoped that Laurel would come back with E1 LL's BC costume minus the buckles. "I had to get rid of them. They didn't make any sense." 

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I'd hoped that Laurel would come back with E1 LL's BC costume minus the buckles. "I had to get rid of them. They didn't make any sense." 

Of course they put next to no thought when it comes to any Laurel but come on! For a show that has had Black Siren talk about how much she hates E1 Laurels fashion sense....at least keep in line with the character! She would never wear that just as she wouldn't and doesnt need that stupid police stick.

[Angel12d]

I'm just wondering how they expect to fit all these extra characters in and give a satisfying goodbye/wrap-up to Felicity and Olicity while also wrapping up the flashforward storyline (for this season, at least). SIGH.