The Duggars and Their World: Fashion, Food, Finance, Schoolin’ and Child Rearin'

[JenCarroll]

How does the US deal with different abilities? You've only the one system, are the differences in the courses, eg, do you have an English course on offer for advanced, normal and challenged students?

We have 3 different streams here in Germany, plus schools for mentally disabled kids. They are streamed into it at around age 11 or so, pending on the individual county.

The "only one system" just made me laugh. We have several thousand different systems, or you might say we have no system at all. Not only do laws and practices vary by state (the U.S. Constitution leaves matters of education in the hands of the state governments), they vary from town to town. The thing is, in most states the funding for schools is local; in my state it's town by town and the money comes from property taxes. This means you have enormous, and frequently appalling, variation in what can be offered, just from one town to the next.

But ideally, in a good system, kids of differing abilities are accommodated in some classes by separating the different groups, and in others they're kept together. They might be divided for math and English, and left together for everything else. Or they might be kept in the same classroom but given different assignments. Children with various disabilities may be accommodated in separate classes, in regular classes with an aide present to assist, or some combination of the two. There are also regional vocational-technical high schools available in most areas, as an alternative to regular high school. Kids there learn a trade. The choice to do that is pretty much up to the family; although a school system may strongly advise a student's parents to consider vo-tech, they can't actually force them to go. Public schools have to take everyone. At the high school level there are generally honors courses and Advanced Placement for the more academically inclined.

Then of course, as someone posted above, there are charter schools, magnet schools (usually a regional public school that you have to test into), parochial schools, and private schools both religious and secular. And home schooling. So yeah, it's not so much a "system;" it's more a "thing that kind of happened."

I have two kids in University now. They both went to public school through eighth grade, where there was a "gifted and talented" program for math and reading, and an optional enrichment course on research skills. (You had to be invited to join this enrichment class, but if invited you didn't have to join because it was an extra class in addition to all the courses everyone else was doing.) Then for high school, one went to a magnet school and one went to a private boarding school. Different choices for different kids. But that's easy for me to say; we're in sound financial circumstances and both kids are high achievers, so we could do pretty much whatever we wanted to. It's a much different story for a lot of other families.

ETA I'd say we like our bureaucracy too, we just do it really, really badly. :-)

ETA again, Sorry mods, I just realized how far this topic has drifted. Delete or move if necessary. Sorry!

Edited December 7, 2015 by JenCarroll

[bigskygirl]

Class please come to attention. The home schooling discussion has been brought up enough on here to the point of the mods sending out a search party to bring back the original thread party back to the mainland. Take the discussion somewhere else please. The mods do not want to keep students after school for going off topic. We will take out our trusty erasers to delete or hide home schooling discussion posts. Thank you.

[MichaelaRae]

It's odd, because there are women in Gothardland who DO work. Erin Bates teaches piano, Chad Paine's sister in law works at a hospital, and Brandon Keilen's pants wearing sister lives independently and works in DC. Prior to getting married and moving to Chicago, Michael Bates worked as a nanny. These are families who are drowning in the Kool-Aid, so what's the Duggars' excuse?

 

In the case of the older female J-slaves, they already have jobs raising MEchelle and Jim Boob's children. I doubt they're interested in getting even more work. And in the case of the Duggars overall, TLC hath provided for years, making the "pink collar" work most other fundie women do in order to eke out something close to sustenance-level living unnecessary for them. The young adult Duggar children don't HAVE to work to survive. And given the lack of gumption or personal pride most of them exhibit (blanket trained out of them at an early age, one assumes), why would they if they don't have to?

Edited December 11, 2015 by MichaelaRae

[Churchhoney]

Good piece on the whys and wherefores of the isolation imposed on children and young people by ATI, Vision Forum and some of the other homeschooling cults. Friendship among kids is reinterpreted as an uber-scary and evil thing called "peer dependency." Really hits the nail on the head about the control-freaky nature of many of the parents who bought into this and the very long-lasting effects it has on the kids.

 

http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/12/14/the-battle-of-peer-dependency-part-1/

 

 

"You can either be a strong family and have your children’s hearts, or you can have friends.....She goes on (and on and on) dramatically about this “battle” and how peer dependency will cause children to fall away from God, will destroy the family unit, and ultimately the entire nation. The whole chapter reads like a letter of self-inflicted martyrdom by a mother who is whining about how hard she had to fight and what sacrifices she made to keep her family free from the diabolical threat of friends. I’m sure I don’t have to explain why this is utterly ridiculous. I wish I had the words to explain why this sounded so good to many of our parents. I mean, did the homeschooling cult attract control freaks or what?! It would be funny if it didn’t hit such a personal, raw place in my heart. If I didn’t have to explain what these teachings did to so many of us, how they broke us, how we still struggle with healthy peer relationships decades later. If we didn’t have to constantly fight to get people to believe that it really was that bad."

 

Also includes a classic, Gothard word-twisting:

 

'So, what is “peer dependency”? The author explains:

    “Webster’s Dictionary defines peer as ‘an equal or member of the nobility’. Dependence is ‘to rely as for support, to place trust, or to be determined’. Therefore, on can define peer dependence as an equal or member of nobility that one can rely upon, places trust in, and will be determined to do so.”

That’s one of the most epic splicing together of definitions that I’ve ever seen. But it’s also a popular method of finding meanings in scripture that Gothard himself uses. Given that this was written by an ATI mom and sold at a Basic Seminar, it’s reasonable to assume she used the same twisted methods of discovering what God has to say as Gothard does. Actually, Gothard’s teachings, catch-phrases, and strange word definitions are prolific throughout this book.

Then we get into the weird hierarchy, “emotions are evil”, and “agreements/strongholds in your heart” teachings that are straight from Gothard:

    “When a young person is in a position that they have taken an equal, or someone they think highly of and are determined to trust and rely upon, a parent is in trouble. To place trust in a peer, one must make a choice with their will to believe in that peer. They come to an agreement within their heart that the one whom they trust is worthy of that trust….Throughout the decision process made by the young person, he has involved his mind, will, and emotions. He has processed the peer through his intellect, enjoyed and desired what he as seen, and has made a decision with his will to follow in order to become like his peer. As we continue to define the struggle, there is one more word that must be considered. Through Scripture, one can find the heart defined as the mind, will, and emotions of a person.”

So let’s create a problem, then see the entire world through this problem, write some stuff that sounds a little like legit psychology to those who know nothing about psychology, and then write a book on how you overcame this salvation-threatening problem and saved the souls of your children. Mother as the martyr-savior. This is starting to sound all-too familiar.

    “Some may think that being peer dependent is not such a bad thing….however, Scripture is clear that it is a very big deal to God. In fact, if is God’s desire for the father to have his children’s hearts, because in the last days, if they don’t, He will smite the earth with a curse.”'

[BitterApple]

Apparently no one in Got-hard-land was a psychology major in college, because children growing, separating from their parents and moving closer to their peers is an entirely normal phase of development. It's important to let kids form their own identities, otherwise you end up with Duggarlings who can barely wipe their own asses without Daddy's approval.

Edited December 14, 2015 by BitterApple

[kalamac]

I don't understand how someone can lose a spouse in a horrible way, and automatically think "God did that to teach me a lesson, and make me a better Christian." A God who kills your loved ones, because you're not devout enough is not a God that deserves to be worshiped.

[Tabbygirl521]

I would think that one of the benefits of a strong faith is that you would know who you are, what you believe, what you value. And you would have the inner strength to remain true to that self, no matter who or what you come in contact with. I venture to say that most of here manage to do this, whether religious or not; we have personal codes of ethics.

Oh yeah, that requires some independent thought. Never mind.

[sometimesy]

How can a normal human think that having frirends outside the family is a threat? Unbelievable control. Making them tell their parents their deepest secrets seemed like the ultimate betrayal to me, but this is right up there. They actually make the kids afraid to befriend people with this twisted logic. Insane!

[queenanne]

I'm sure it is a threat, because wasn't there some secular research done not too long ago which basically as good as decided, once your child meets peers, it's all over for parental influence?  Once school age, your children have done caring about what you think and their most important goal, is being accepted by and appealing to the peer groups.  

[sometimesy]

I'm sure it is a threat, because wasn't there some secular research done not too long ago which basically as good as decided, once your child meets peers, it's all over for parental influence?  Once school age, your children have done caring about what you think and their most important goal, is being accepted by and appealing to the peer groups.  

'Threat' though? It sounds like normal child/parent separation. 

[JoanArc]

 

'Threat' though? It sounds like normal child/parent separation.

Damn right, it threatens their way of life - total parental control, instant unquestioning obedience, forever and always, in all things, amen.

[Sew Sumi]

The scripted commentary on last night's show demonstrates how insular they are. Non-likeminded friends (I know, bear with me for a second) are definitely a threat to what JB and M certainly consider to be their peaceful existence. Hell, a bro"her that could have been considered the best friend of at least one sibling (JD) betrayed them from the inside! 

 

Imagine what havoc heathens like us could wreak should we befriend a Duggar child. I'm surprised the Duggars still allow friendships with the Bateses, who seem to actually be succeeding at conservative fundamentalism where the Duggars are failing. Sure, the Bateses have some annoying offspring (Lawson and Carlin spring to mind), but look at the spouses that the KIDS selected themselves, without parental intervention like all of the Duggar courtships began. No WAY the Duggars would allow JD to date a girl he met working at Chick Fil A! But let's face it, they need to be more hands off and let their kids' relationships grow a bit more organically, both platonic and romantic. 

[BitterApple]

'Threat' though? It sounds like normal child/parent separation.

I think she meant 'threat' in terms of Fundie logic, not in how normal parents would think.

[queenanne]

Yes, but I also don't want to contemplate the idea that parents' opinions are nonessential to kids by, like, age 6 (slight exaggeration of the interpretation, but not by much, as the text started covering students ages 6-12).  My peers had some terrible ideas as elementary schoolers.  If I would actually have thought them "better" than my parents' suggestions for dealing with a situation... boy howdy.

[GeeGolly]

Good piece on the whys and wherefores of the isolation imposed on children and young people by ATI, Vision Forum and some of the other homeschooling cults. Friendship among kids is reinterpreted as an uber-scary and evil thing called "peer dependency." Really hits the nail on the head about the control-freaky nature of many of the parents who bought into this and the very long-lasting effects it has on the kids.

 

http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/12/14/the-battle-of-peer-dependency-part-1/

 

 

"You can either be a strong family and have your children’s hearts, or you can have friends.....She goes on (and on and on) dramatically about this “battle” and how peer dependency will cause children to fall away from God, will destroy the family unit, and ultimately the entire nation. The whole chapter reads like a letter of self-inflicted martyrdom by a mother who is whining about how hard she had to fight and what sacrifices she made to keep her family free from the diabolical threat of friends. I’m sure I don’t have to explain why this is utterly ridiculous. I wish I had the words to explain why this sounded so good to many of our parents. I mean, did the homeschooling cult attract control freaks or what?! It would be funny if it didn’t hit such a personal, raw place in my heart. If I didn’t have to explain what these teachings did to so many of us, how they broke us, how we still struggle with healthy peer relationships decades later. If we didn’t have to constantly fight to get people to believe that it really was that bad."

 

Also includes a classic, Gothard word-twisting:

 

'So, what is “peer dependency”? The author explains:

    “Webster’s Dictionary defines peer as ‘an equal or member of the nobility’. Dependence is ‘to rely as for support, to place trust, or to be determined’. Therefore, on can define peer dependence as an equal or member of nobility that one can rely upon, places trust in, and will be determined to do so.”

That’s one of the most epic splicing together of definitions that I’ve ever seen. But it’s also a popular method of finding meanings in scripture that Gothard himself uses. Given that this was written by an ATI mom and sold at a Basic Seminar, it’s reasonable to assume she used the same twisted methods of discovering what God has to say as Gothard does. Actually, Gothard’s teachings, catch-phrases, and strange word definitions are prolific throughout this book.

Then we get into the weird hierarchy, “emotions are evil”, and “agreements/strongholds in your heart” teachings that are straight from Gothard:

    “When a young person is in a position that they have taken an equal, or someone they think highly of and are determined to trust and rely upon, a parent is in trouble. To place trust in a peer, one must make a choice with their will to believe in that peer. They come to an agreement within their heart that the one whom they trust is worthy of that trust….Throughout the decision process made by the young person, he has involved his mind, will, and emotions. He has processed the peer through his intellect, enjoyed and desired what he as seen, and has made a decision with his will to follow in order to become like his peer. As we continue to define the struggle, there is one more word that must be considered. Through Scripture, one can find the heart defined as the mind, will, and emotions of a person.”

So let’s create a problem, then see the entire world through this problem, write some stuff that sounds a little like legit psychology to those who know nothing about psychology, and then write a book on how you overcame this salvation-threatening problem and saved the souls of your children. Mother as the martyr-savior. This is starting to sound all-too familiar.

    “Some may think that being peer dependent is not such a bad thing….however, Scripture is clear that it is a very big deal to God. In fact, if is God’s desire for the father to have his children’s hearts, because in the last days, if they don’t, He will smite the earth with a curse.”'

Holy shit.

[Guest]

I watched the Counting On episode with Closed Captions and holy moly, reading their words as they spoke them really made me realize that their subject-verb agreement and verb tense consistency is... tragic, in a word. 

[lookeyloo]

I agree with just about everybody about their language skills, boring show, smug attitudes, seemingly either low IQ or just non educated.  I muddled through but it had nothing to offer really.  And our poor Jana sounds just as limited as the rest of them.  That was the most I remember her really talking but she can barely make a coherent sentence either.  Like they are thinking of words that might go together.  I am just guessing that they rehearsed the talking heads and fine tuned them and learned the lines.  I don't think it was, Jana, come here and we will throw an unknown question at you and catch your reaction on tape.  She is a pretty one, though.

Edited December 15, 2015 by lookeyloo

[Churchhoney]

How can a normal human think that having frirends outside the family is a threat? Unbelievable control.

 

It sure isn't normal, but I think it's pretty common among people with severe personality disorders raising kids. That one such mega-warped nutjob pulled a bunch of bogus theology out of her ass to justify it -- in terms of the end of days, no less -- and then Gothard packaged it up as a book and sold it as part of his homeschooling and family-life materials tells me all I need to know about Gothard and ATI, I must say.

 

And it's hella damaging. Humans are meant to live in societies. And you are warped for life when you're determinedly deprived of numerous natural and vital stages of development in that way.

[Churchhoney]

Yes, but I also don't want to contemplate the idea that parents' opinions are nonessential to kids by, like, age 6 (slight exaggeration of the interpretation, but not by much, as the text started covering students ages 6-12).  My peers had some terrible ideas as elementary schoolers.  If I would actually have thought them "better" than my parents' suggestions for dealing with a situation... boy howdy.

 

Yeah, but she's just pulling up the horror stories out of her ass. It's her own fear of loss of total control that's the issue. Kids do gravitate toward peers, of course, but they also continue to get influences from their families, and they aren't necessarily stupid enough to always buy the other kids' views over adults' views. And parents -- and teachers, and so on -- protect kids in other ways from totally following the peer crowd, if they're doing their jobs at all.

 

I was raised by a nut like this, although without the theology, and all this sick Gothard-book-writing woman has really done is conjure up a bogeyman out of her own neurotic fear of not remaining the total home despot for life and tried to sell it as what always happens if you fail to lock your kids away from all influences and -- and this is a big one -- all enjoyment of society. She's internally warped as hell and is operating from her warped place, not from reason, just like every adult who isolates their children like this, and what she's preaching goes completely against nature.

[wilsie]

 

Yeah, but she's just pulling up the horror stories out of her ass. It's her own fear of loss of total control that's the issue. Kids do gravitate toward peers, of course, but they also continue to get influences from their families, and they aren't necessarily stupid enough to always buy the other kids' views over adults' views. And parents -- and teachers, and so on -- protect kids in other ways from totally following the peer crowd, if they're doing their jobs at all.

 

I was raised by a nut like this, although without the theology, and all this sick Gothard-book-writing woman has really done is conjure up a bogeyman out of her own neurotic fear of not remaining the total home despot for life and tried to sell it as what always happens if you fail to lock your kids away from all influences and -- and this is a big one -- all enjoyment of society. She's internally warped as hell and is operating from her warped place, not from reason, just like every adult who isolates their children like this, and what she's preaching goes completely against nature.

I'm so sorry  Churchhoney that you experienced this in your life.  It's a horrible thing to do to children and as you say, it stays with them for life.  My heart aches for you, the Duggar children, and anyone who has to deal with this in their childhood.

[Aja]

    “Some may think that being peer dependent is not such a bad thing….however, Scripture is clear that it is a very big deal to God. In fact, if is God’s desire for the father to have his children’s hearts, because in the last days, if they don’t, He will smite the earth with a curse.”'

ZOMG, sign me up!!! *eye roll*

[Tabbygirl521]

Kids typically do start listening to people besides their parents, once they get the chance, because humans are curious creatures. If they have the opportunity, they notice their surroundings. They question - unless they have had curiosity beaten out of them. Also, we do tend to want others to like us, so we may dip our toes into lifestyles that aren't good for us, to "fit in." It's all part of using our brains and figuring out how we want to relate to the world - and pushing ourselves out of the nest, which is the natural way.

If the people who raised us have done their jobs, we will have good critical-thinking and self-preservation skills. We will also have some inkling of how we'd like to begin using our inate intelligence and talents, and not make God cry by suppressing them.

If we have been raised by people like the Duggars, in fear and isolation, we may be irretrievably stunted - or we may have the strength to run for our lives. Which is what I think Josh subconsciously may have tried to do (or he is an entitled jackass; not sure).

[BitterApple]

Kids typically do start listening to people besides their parents, once they get the chance, because humans are curious creatures. If they have the opportunity, they notice their surroundings. They question - unless they have had curiosity beaten out of them. Also, we do tend to want others to like us, so we may dip our toes into lifestyles that aren't good for us, to "fit in." It's all part of using our brains and figuring out how we want to relate to the world - and pushing ourselves out of the nest, which is the natural way.

I remember my sister being devastated when my niece turned 14 and wanted to spend all her time with her friends. I was like, um, she's a teenager, remember how we were back then? We didn't want to stay home on a Friday night and watch Hallmark movies either. In Duggarland she'd probably be shipped off to Journey To The Heart like Jana. She's now 19, works full time, goes to college and plans on opening her own business, so chalk up a victory for us Heathens.

I wonder how much longer the Duggars can push their lifestyle as "right" and the worldly lifestyle as "wrong" considering what a trainwreck their own family has become.

Edited December 15, 2015 by BitterApple

[Churchhoney]

Second part of the "peer dependence" nonsense. Did/do Jim Bob and Michelle act just like this? Oh, yeah, I think they do:

 

'“The first step in overcoming peer dependency is determining whether or not a child is peer dependent. The second is accurately assessing the depth of the problem and then taking the proper steps. One approach a parent might take in order to find out if a son or daughter is peer dependent is to tell your child that all outside activities with peers will be suspended for one week. Will your child willingly and joyfully go along with that plan, or will they whine and cry, manipulate and control, and completely make your life miserable until they can do things with their friends? ….ask them, ‘Who has your heart? Who would you say in in control of your life?’ ”

 

'So lemme get this straight: tell a normal kid that they have to cease and desist all the normal stuff they do outside the home (keep in mind we’re talking about homeschoolers who rely on their parents to have an outside social life), then when they freak out like normal kids, give them a triumphant “AHA! You are peer dependent. We must fix this.” Um, no, actually, they’re just normal human beings who like the company of other human beings. How would this mother handle it if someone told her “You won’t be allowed out of your house or to see anyone else but your kids for a week. And tell me now, who has your heart”? Sounds abusive and manipulative, right? Oh, but not when it’s directed at kids. Kids can be treated as non-humans because they’re on the bottom of the Godly hierarchy. Suddenly “Who has your heart?” sounds uber creepy to me. All this emphasis on who owns whom.'

 

http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/12/15/the-battle-of-peer-dependency-part-2/

[sometimesy]

You're grounded! Forever.

 

The accountability partner is bullshit as well. They really have barriers to independence.

[BitterApple]

Imagine how Michelle would react if you told her she couldn't go to Starbucks or pop her Xanies for a week. Would she go along willingly or make everyone around her miserable until she got her way? I'm guessing it would be the latter.

[Barb23]

It's funny that MEchelle has her close friend Cindy, yet the kids can't have anyone close besides a sibling, which is different than a friendship. I wonder how MEchelle & Cindy's friendship is doing since the scandals.

[JenCarroll]

It's funny that MEchelle has her close friend Cindy, yet the kids can't have anyone close besides a sibling, which is different than a friendship. I wonder how MEchelle & Cindy's friendship is doing since the scandals.

I doubt there is a real friendship there. They were convenient for each other. They were friends in high school, but I doubt they really stayed in touch. Mechelle needed to look like a functioning human being, which would generally include having friends, and Cindy wanted to be on TV. Presto, instant bff's.

[Sew Sumi]

From the show thread:

 

I'm not familiar with US inheritance law, so I don't know how Jim Boob's wealth and property will be divided among his kids when he dies. Here, inheritance goes first to the surviving spouse and then, when the spouse dies, a minimum of half of the inheritance is shared among all the siblings. The other half can be willed to whomever the parent sees fit, family or not.

 

Here, you can will what you want to whomever you want, anytime you want. You can entirely bypass your spouse and will everything to your kids. Or give it all away. 

 

The Duggars have a Trust, which protects their assets from certain taxes during the lifetimes of JB and Mechelle. The trust is in both names, so all assets merely pass to the surviving spouse when the first one dies. When both die, the trust is dispersed per the instructions therein. Again, they can give what they want to whomever they please, or give to charities of their choice. My parents had a similar trust, and when my dad, the surviving spouse, passed away, his assets were dispersed per his wishes; he gave away about half to Christian entities such as Focus on the Family (blergh, but hey, it was HIS money). 

 

Who knows how JB and Mechelle have their assets divided? The only things of any value they have that the kids could fight over would be whatever cars or buses remain in their dotage. And the pianos, I guess, unless those are taken by two of the girls at some point down the road (Jana and Jinger seem most likely). I don't even think the Salvation Army would want their nasty furniture. 

[JenCarroll]

Inheritance is a matter of state law, not federal, so there's no one answer to the question of what American inheritance law allows. But mostly yes, you can leave your estate to whomever you choose. There are exceptions in some jurisdictions that allow a surviving spouse who's been left out of the will, to sue for the amount s/he would have received had the spouse not left a will. What happens if you die without a will is, again, a matter of state law, and it varies more than you might think.

[tabloidlover]

Imagine how Michelle would react if you told her she couldn't go to Starbucks or pop her Xanies for a week. Would she go along willingly or make everyone around her miserable until she got her way? I'm guessing it would be the latter.

I have a real question for those that watched the show pre-josh scandal(S).  Has Michelle confirmed her Xanax usage or is it speculation based on her drugged behavior? 

[JenCarroll]

I think it's informed speculation. In that we know what Xanax use looks like, and we know what she looks (and sounds) like.

Quack, quack.

[Sew Sumi]

Inheritance is a matter of state law, not federal, so there's no one answer to the question of what American inheritance law allows. But mostly yes, you can leave your estate to whomever you choose. There are exceptions in some jurisdictions that allow a surviving spouse who's been left out of the will, to sue for the amount s/he would have received had the spouse not left a will. What happens if you die without a will is, again, a matter of state law, and it varies more than you might think.

I figured that territory didn't need to be tread, since the Duggars are not dying intestate. 

[Vaysh]

I have a feeling that Josh has been very loudly disinherited by Boob by now. Maybe with some provisions for Anna and the kids.

 

I also have a strong feeling that Boob just loves the fact that he completely controls to whom and what his money will go to; he's probably using it as yet another tool to keep the kids in line. (Which is one of the reasons why the Swedish inheritance laws were changed to their current state - so that money and property and the threat of disinheritance couldn't be used as instruments of control).

[Churchhoney]

I have a feeling that Josh has been very loudly disinherited by Boob by now. Maybe with some provisions for Anna and the kids.

 

I also have a strong feeling that Boob just loves the fact that he completely controls to whom and what his money will go to; he's probably using it as yet another tool to keep the kids in line. (Which is one of the reasons why the Swedish inheritance laws were changed to their current state - so that money and property and the threat of disinheritance couldn't be used as instruments of control).

 

Yeah, well, this is America. And Jesus wants us to be able to manipulate people.

[Tabbygirl521]

I figured that territory didn't need to be tread, since the Duggars are not dying intestate.

Who knows, though? Maybe their anti-authority mindset had them stashing money in mattresses, etc. I am kidding. I think.

[Sew Sumi]

Nah, we know the trust exists. It's listed as the property "owner" when you look up the Duggar properties.

[MargeGunderson]

Inheritance is a matter of state law, not federal, so there's no one answer to the question of what American inheritance law allows. But mostly yes, you can leave your estate to whomever you choose. There are exceptions in some jurisdictions that allow a surviving spouse who's been left out of the will, to sue for the amount s/he would have received had the spouse not left a will. What happens if you die without a will is, again, a matter of state law, and it varies more than you might think.

 

Given their ideas on "headship" and patriarchy, I wonder if the will/trust leaves anything to Michelle or any of the girls outright. Wouldn't one of the sons (maybe not Josh these days) automatically become the new headship over all of the widowed/unmarried women, and therefore should control all of the money? Because if the womenfolk had any money of their own, just imagine all of the horrifying things they could do - buy defrauding clothes, be independent, get a clue, etc. Or, you know, spend it all on ChikFil-A and Starbucks.

Edited December 16, 2015 by MargeGunderson

[Sew Sumi]

The trust is in both JB & MEchelle's names, so their only question is how they've chosen to divvy up the assets among the kids, or if they will only fo to the boys because the girls are married to breadwinners, or it will all be given away.

Sadly, it's unlikely that I will be around to find out, since I am about the same age as they are.

[dillpickles]

Given their ideas on "headship" and patriarchy, I wonder if the will/trust leaves anything to Michelle or any of the girls outright. Wouldn't one of the sons (maybe not Josh these days) automatically become the new headship over all of the widowed/unmarried women, and therefore should control all of the money? Because if the womenfolk had any money of their own, just imagine all of the horrifying things they could do - buy defrauding clothes, be independent, get a clue, etc. Or, you know, spend it all on ChikFil-A and Starbucks.

If you think Michelle isn't getting cold hard cash in her hands when boob gives his last "hey hey hey" i have a bridge to sell you.

The rest of the girls will probably have to fight for nickels unless they have a headship, though.

[kokapetl]

The surviving spouse will probably get the entire lot when the first spouse dies, but when that surviving spouse dies, who knows, it'll probably go to a trust that will be created to dole out money to their children.

[JenCarroll]

I'd actually be surprised if any of the married kids have wills. I'm sure Jim Bob does, and probably (but not necessarily) Michelle. Grandma Mary is the one I can't get a read on. She seems to own property, so she ought to have a will, but an astounding number of people don't. In my personal dream world, I'd like to see her leave everything to her granddaughters (always assuming she can name all ten of them), and make Deanna the executor.

[Sew Sumi]

The surviving spouse will probably get the entire lot when the first spouse dies, but when that surviving spouse dies, who knows, it'll probably go to a trust that will be created to dole out money to their children.

The Duggar Trust already exists for just this purpose. I am sure Mary also has a trust set up. It's common practice to avoid estate taxes and to ensure your assets go where you want them to.

I bet JB is Mary's executor, but I am super curious as to whom JB and MEchelle have named to dole out their estate. I wonder if they named Smuggar but recently made some changes. LOL

[kokapetl]

The Duggar Trust already exists for just this purpose. I am sure Mary also has a trust set up. It's common practice to avoid estate taxes and to ensure your assets go where you want them to.

I bet JB is Mary's executor, but I am super curious as to whom JB and MEchelle have named to dole out their estate. I wonder if they named Smuggar but recently made some changes. LOL

To JimChelle, I'm guessing the JimChelle trust is mainly for tax purposes, the trust that will provide for the kids after they both die will probably have a ton of morality clauses in it so JimBob can continue to control the family while decomposing in an ammo box.

[Sew Sumi]

I don't recall any morality clauses in either my parents' or in-laws' trusts. That could vary by state though. The trusts I've read merely distribute the assets.

Who knows though? Maybe there are stipulations in the Duggar Trust in order to inherit, such as no divorce, etc.

[lookeyloo]

I'd actually be surprised if any of the married kids have wills. I'm sure Jim Bob does, and probably (but not necessarily) Michelle. Grandma Mary is the one I can't get a read on. She seems to own property, so she ought to have a will, but an astounding number of people don't. In my personal dream world, I'd like to see her leave everything to her granddaughters (always assuming she can name all ten of them), and make Deanna the executor.

My guess would be that if Boob were still alive he would find some way to browbeat them into giving it to him to "take care of" for them. Because girls need a man to do that. I. His opinion. Not mine.

[Sew Sumi]

Deanna and Famy are probably the biggest winners in Mary's trust. No way it's just a will; she knows better.

[Lemur]

Deanna and Famy are probably the biggest winners in Mary's trust. No way it's just a will; she knows better.

 

I might actually be interested in a special on Mary, but I doubt we'd ever get the uncensored "real story".  She must really love that son of hers and enjoy all of those grandkids.  If that's the case, bless her heart.  

[sometimesy]

Their method of isolation/rearin' reminds me of that movie of a babysitter: She has threatening calls, finally the police call back and say they've traced the call, the danger is IN the house. Get out!

[JenCarroll]

The Duggar Trust already exists for just this purpose. I am sure Mary also has a trust set up. It's common practice to avoid estate taxes and to ensure your assets go where you want them to.

I bet JB is Mary's executor, but I am super curious as to whom JB and MEchelle have named to dole out their estate. I wonder if they named Smuggar but recently made some changes. LOL

It's a bit optimistic of Jim Bob and Mechelle to assume they're going to need to worry about estate taxes.