The Duggars and Their World: Fashion, Food, Finance, Schoolin’ and Child Rearin'

[GEML]

My godfather (although we didn't use the term) was raised and shunned when he left the Old Order Amish. So we, too, had a glimpse into that world that others did not.

[kokapetl]

I do get this, and I'm sure you're right that that's what they intend.

But I'm struggling to figure out why it's so extremely dystopian and creepy to me, when some seemingly similar images wouldn't be. I think they've accomplished in the image something that's different from what they intend, very dystopian, and maybe even suggestive of some hidden truths.

And I think it's the man in a suit who's part of the power structure while leading by the hand a childish woman and a passel of girls all dressed in an old-fashioned, childish, servant-like uniform of a garish and emotionally charged color that makes it a seriously dystopian image for me. It's the same kind of feeling I get from a picture of a man in a suit and a naked woman or women. There's something off and disturbing and a bit obscene about it and it highlights -- blindingly, for me --both the state of the woman or women and the fact that it's the man's power that has put them into these states in which their individual identities are stripped at the same time as their state forces everyone to look at them. And I'm pretty sure I'd be less disturbed if the color of the female costume suggested more seriousness. The red, like the nakedness, looks like mere decoration, like a toy.

To me, it's very notable here that, even though the religious idea is to be set apart from the world, Jim Bob, who is also part of this belief system, is not set apart from the world in the image. In fact, he's dressed 100 percent in the current costume of the world's power structure. He's unmistakably a part of this culture. He looks, in fact, like a senator, and very much of this world. Meanwhile, the many women/girls who are clearly in his charge are placed in a completely different position -- in a costume that utterly precludes their having any power at all and whose color rivets everybody's eyes on them. Just like a naked woman in a painting with men clothed in business suits. For me, those are both images that suggest blank unshakeable worldly male power calmly creating a world in which the other gender is set apart to be always watched and to be incapable of escaping its state or exercising any agency of its own. Dystopian.

Okay, I'll stop my endless anatomizing of the image now. I think I know why it disturbs me. Thank goodness.

You know how Fran Drescher/Bobbi Fleckman complains about the 'Smell the Glove' cover in Spinal Tap? I bet JimBob would comprehend and respond to your comment in a clueless way like Christopher Guest did to Fleckman's. Edited August 2, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Churchhoney]

You know how Fran Drescher/Bobbi Fleckman complains about the 'Smell the Glove' cover in Spinal Tap? I bet JimBob would comprehend and respond to your comment in a clueless way like Christopher Guest did to Fleckman's.

 

Hey, Hey, Hey! That's the godly way to respond!

[kokapetl]

An interesting early variant of Duggar fashion. From pickles, Jill and Jana with Michelle's hair, and a watermelon collar.

[Vaysh]

Aw, they actually look happy! Absolutely horrible clothes but cute and happy kids. :)

[msblossom]

Agreed. They look well cared for and clean. Michelle, I'm assuming it's her, put some effort into doing their hair, scrubbing and bathing them and dressing them in clean dresses that were probably in style at that time. Adorable.

[dillpickles]

Agreed. They look well cared for and clean. Michelle, I'm assuming it's her, put some effort into doing their hair, scrubbing and bathing them and dressing them in clean dresses that were probably in style at that time. Adorable.

Its ashame she can't be assed to do that for her younger kids.

[msblossom]

Its ashame she can't be assed to do that for her younger kids.

Her efforts are half assed when she does makes an attempt.

But that's very very rare.

[RazzleberryPie]

An interesting early variant of Duggar fashion. From pickles, Jill and Jana with Michelle's hair, and a watermelon collar.

They look cute, clean, and happy there. Those look to me like early 90s equivalents of those hideous Matilda Jane outfits that so many people adore. I'm a good 10 years older than those two, but completely recognize those sponge roller curls, which, in my opinion are cute on them and safe ways (no chemicals, no heat) to style little girls' very long hair. 

[JessDVD]

I think my sister (1 year younger than Josh) had that exact watermelon shirt. And that exact hair style, probably during those same years. And I had dresses very similar to the other one. The 80s/early 90s were a cruel time in fashion...

 

I agree, they look healthy, happy, well-kept, and within the styles that were currently popular at the time. I probably should not be as emotionally invested as the amount of wistful-ness I just felt, would signify.

[Barb23]

The girls look truly happy in the picture. In comparison, we now get forced smiles & the faraway looks from the Lost girls.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Barb23

[BitterApple]

That's a really cute pic of Jill and Jana. It's amazing how clean and well put together they look compared to the Lost Girls.

Edited August 3, 2015 by BitterApple

[GEML]

That's a really cute pic of Jill and Jana. It's amazing how clean and we'll put together they look compared to the Lost Girls.

This.

[NewDigs]

I'm pretty sure that I would have loved that watermelon collar.

[CofCinci]

An interesting early variant of Duggar fashion. From pickles, Jill and Jana with Michelle's hair, and a watermelon collar.

Those little girls became mothers way too quickly.

[Vaysh]

I keep coming back to this photo and I just can not get over how real their smiles look compared to the ones we see on the younger Duggar kids these days. They look on the verge of a giggle fit! What is happening in that barn of a house to make the kids look so fake whenever they try to smile? I don't think I've ever seen or heard them get the giggles, which is so weird when I think about it, because all the kids I've ever known (including myself) can/could giggle like mad over anything.

[msblossom]

^^^Neglect, household chaos, and generally being treated like a commodity will take that out of a kid.

The Howlers and Lost Girls never got to experience childhood to the extent that Josh through probably Jessa/Jinger did. After that, they were relegated to being a circus act and treated like cattle.

[Defrauder]

Yeah but you know what back in the day when Jana & Jill were younger they had JB's and Mechelle's tempers to deal with, no TLC cameras around and they were beginning to take on many of the parents responsibilities raising the younger ones.   I don't know that I would really want Michelle doing my hair at that age because I don't think she is or was very patient and I'm sure there was no complaining allowed.  

[Churchhoney]

I keep coming back to this photo and I just can not get over how real their smiles look compared to the ones we see on the younger Duggar kids these days. They look on the verge of a giggle fit! What is happening in that barn of a house to make the kids look so fake whenever they try to smile? I don't think I've ever seen or heard them get the giggles, which is so weird when I think about it, because all the kids I've ever known (including myself) can/could giggle like mad over anything.

 

My guess is that shortly after this they stopped being people who had any individual importance at all and started being absolutely nothing except props to bolster, first, JB's political ambitions and then his tv show, aka his salary. Since that picture was taken, everybody's had to be "on" a huge amount of the time. I think it could be just the resulting tension, pressure and lack of any appreciation of any of them for their individual selves that turned them all into kind of saddish zombies. Or JB and M may have enforced a less and less spontaneous atmosphere. Plenty of parents do that. In my house, the saying went, "If you go on laughing like that, the next thing is that you're going to cry." They became a little useful army rather than kids.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

Yeah but you know what back in the day when Jana & Jill were younger they had JB's and Mechelle's tempers to deal with, no TLC cameras around and they were beginning to take on many of the parents responsibilities raising the younger ones.   I don't know that I would really want Michelle doing my hair at that age because I don't think she is or was very patient and I'm sure there was no complaining allowed.  

 

Yeah, and you especially wouldn't want her putting it into a "hairdo" like that, because there had to be some pulling and tugging involved in creating it, and she already had four daughters' hair to fix by this point. I imagine that could get her quite grumpy. I think it would get me quite grumpy. I resent the time it takes to do one or two people's hair, let alone four girls' and my own. I would've been doing a lot of ponytails.

[Skittl1321]

Part of being a mother is taking care of your little girls hair. If you can't stomach doing the hair of 4 kids, don't have 4 kids. And certainly don't have 19!

 

(I mostly got ponytails. I had insane thick frizzy hair, so a ponytail on me took almost as long as foam curls on my sister.)

[Defrauder]

I just thought of something - what if they did each other's hair?  Seriously.   I wouldn't doubt it. Or maybe they each did their own hair I mean they were what 7 or 8 by then?

[Churchhoney]

Part of being a mother is taking care of your little girls hair. If you can't stomach doing the hair of 4 kids, don't have 4 kids. And certainly don't have 19!

 

Yep, I followed that injunction. It's far from the only reason that I wouldn't have 19 kids, though. :  )   (On the other hand, while I agree that keeping kids clean and kept up and helping them look pretty if they want to is a big part of being a mom, there are many things that I see as way more important -- such as cooking nutritious food and teaching them that food can be tasty and good for you and fostering their curiosity and their interests and helping them learn about the world.)

 

I do take care of hair, even though I wish we lived on a bald planet because there are dozens of uses of time that are infinitely more important to me. If someone really cares about hair, then I'll help her (or him!) out with it. But I admit that unless I have such a good reason, I've always cared for hair in as simple a way as possible as long as it's clean and looks presentable. And that goes double -- triple, quadruple -- for my own hair. Taking care of that is what I resent by far the most, actually. So it's short and gets a part and a quick brush-through in the morning. And that's it.

 

I hope Michelle didn't have to yank too much on their hair to get it into a do. I suppose that varied with the kid, though. Not everybody's hair cooperates in the same way. My hair's really fine and limp and knots very easily, and I hated the time and yanking that was spent putting it into hairdos when I was a kid.  I didn't care about hair then, either -- but my mother did. :  )

Edited August 4, 2015 by Churchhoney

[GEML]

As a rule, I would bet the older children were happier because even with tempers and lack of money, their home had structure. Maybe too much structure, but most children out there like structure and knowing what is going to happen next. It's reassuring to them, and probably accounts for what self-assurance the older children do have.

The younger children have no structure at all. They have plenty of money and a big house and less discipline, but one day it's this and the next day it's that. Most young children find that difficult. And they become sort of "lost."

[msblossom]

Hair seems pretty high on the list of importance to Michelle and the elder Duggar girls -- as long, outdated, stringy and frizzy as it is.

ETA: Although Jana and Joy have pretty, silky hair.

Edited August 4, 2015 by msblossom

[msblossom]

I wish JB & M had stopped having kids after Jinger. Swap out Josh for Josiah, and Jessa for Joy.

[BitterApple]

I think in the early years Josh, Jana, JD and Jill received attention and love from both parents. Things started to go off the rails when Jessa was born, followed by several other babies and Michelle couldn't cope. The house became crammed, the workload too heavy and Michelle had her breakdown. The Sister-Mom concept was introduced which meant bye-bye childhood for Jill and Jana.

I also think they were born when Michelle wanted kids because she genuinely wanted a family, it wasn't a numbers game at this point.

[msblossom]

I think in the early years Josh, Jana, JD and Jill received attention and love from both parents. Things started to go off the rails when Jessa was born, followed by several other babies and Michelle couldn't cope. The house became crammed, the workload too heavy and Michelle had her breakdown. The Sister-Mom concept was introduced which meant bye-bye childhood for Jill and Jana.

I also think they were born when Michelle wanted kids because she genuinely wanted a family, it wasn't a numbers game at this point.

I wish I could give this post more than 1 like, BitterApple, you nailed it! Their lives would have been vastly different, and better IMO, and may have gotten back to a more mainstream form of faith. Or not. Either way, they'd have all been much off.

[kokapetl]

From Pickles

Family photo in 1990, Michelle is dressing like Elaine from Seinfeld, so sort of stylish?

Josh wears a t shirt in 1992

In 1995 still normal-ish, there's a Christmas tree, but I don't know if the others are Christmas photos.

By 1998, things are at their ugliest

and 1999 and 2000 are the same.

[msblossom]

Those photos are really telling.

Michelle looks like she's wearing a dead animal or a rug made of hair on her shoulders in that last pic.

[kokapetl]

Those photos are really telling.

Michelle looks like she's wearing a dead animal or a rug made of hair on her shoulders in that last pic.

It looks like there's a dog on her shoulders.

She really loves the ombré.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Kokapetl

[dillpickles]

Those photos are really telling.

Michelle looks like she's wearing a dead animal or a rug made of hair on her shoulders in that last pic.

she really does love her ombre hair.

[Churchhoney]

It looks like there's a dog on her shoulders.

She really loves the ombré.

 

Where did she get the time and the money to keep that hair up? I suppose that's because responsibility one was to look good for Jim Bob in the Gothard style? But I can't imagine having that many kids and having hair that looked so high-maintenance. Although I suppose it may have been done specially for the big family photo and it wasn't like that all the time.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

I got married in 1994, and I totally remember the sailor collar, floral dress being the "thing" for little girls. Florals were big all-around. I had a small wedding; I eschewed both flower girls and ring bearers, but my little cousin who was about 3 at the time showed up in a vomit-inducing floral dress with a huge sailor collar. I use pics to blackmail her to this day: since she came out, the facade of dresses has gone bye-bye. As for adults, I told my matron of honor just to wear a floral dress (August wedding) with purple in it. 

 

It looks insane now (and I'd NEVER wear it now, never really did embrace it then), but yeah, that was '90's fashion. 

[JessDVD]

Yeah, I was born 4 years before Josh was and my family's pictures from when we were those kids' ages, are pretty much carbon copies as far as fashion goes. Think Laura Ashley and lots of it.

 

John David looks a lot like one of the Howlers, Justin maybe? I know which one is Jackson but I get everyone from Jer/Jed down to Justin mixed up. By "Get mixed up", I mean, "Have never made an effort to tell apart".

[Defrauder]

I've noticed in every family picture above Jim Bob is holding a baby or toddler but MEchelle only in two of the pictures.  In fact in the one where she's holding the infant she's not supporting her head properly at all.  MEchelle is all about MEchelle.

[Barb23]

I've noticed in every family picture above Jim Bob is holding a baby or toddler but MEchelle only in two of the pictures.  In fact in the one where she's holding the infant she's not supporting her head properly at all.  MEchelle is all about MEchelle.

You beat me to it- I was going to post the same thing. In the last picture with her sitting in the center & with that mop of hair, your eyes are drawn to her. Like you said, "MEchelle is all about MEchelle."

[GeeGolly]

As a rule, I would bet the older children were happier because even with tempers and lack of money, their home had structure. Maybe too much structure, but most children out there like structure and knowing what is going to happen next. It's reassuring to them, and probably accounts for what self-assurance the older children do have.

The younger children have no structure at all. They have plenty of money and a big house and less discipline, but one day it's this and the next day it's that. Most young children find that difficult. And they become sort of "lost."

Totally agree. There isn't even casual structure, like lunch is at this time, dinner at that time, bedtime routine, etc. The kids probably don't even have a concept of morning, afternoon and evening.

[kalamac]

In that first photo little Josh looks like a tiny version of a smug yuppie frat boy.

[Oldernowiser]

That doesn't look ombré to me...that's just vintage 80s permed-fried ends that end up three shades lighter because of all the processing.

I'm not going to tell you how I know this...

[SomePity1066]

Part of being a mother is taking care of your little girls hair. If you can't stomach doing the hair of 4 kids, don't have 4 kids. And certainly don't have 19!

 

(I mostly got ponytails. I had insane thick frizzy hair, so a ponytail on me took almost as long as foam curls on my sister.)

This. SO much this...

 

I'm afraid to say that my own mother belonged in the "shouldn't have kids" category, went ahead and had four anyway, and we all suffered because of it. Not that I'm not glad I'm here, mind you, especially with you fine folks here at PTV, but I can tell you from personal experience that having a mother that doesn't give a shit how your hair, or anything else, for that matter, looks leaves an imprint that's very hard to shake. I'm straying close to "Prayer Closet" territory, so I"ll just say this...

 

I grew up with a selfish, narcissistic woman who had her hair and nails done weekly, always had perfect makeup, and current clothes, but sent me to school in ill-fitting, too-small or too-large, out of date clothes and shoes that were ugly and didn't fit, and that made me a target for bullies. Grade school was hell for me. 

 

With the obvious exception of Michelle's frumpy clothes, she's a pretty scary version of my own mother. Michelle first, everyone else second. Or LAST...

 

It's supposed to be J.O.Y, right ? Jesus, Others, Yourself. 

 

But in MEchelle-land, it's M.O.O. - Michelle, Over and Over.

[latetotheparty]

In that first photo little Josh looks like a tiny version of a smug yuppie frat boy.

 

He's already looking very sly.

[Sew Sumi]

Blessa's never going to live that one down! She labeled her brother better than any of the rest of us ever could. Even if the story isn't quite true and the girls faked sleep, Josh will always be the sly molester. 

[RazzleberryPie]

I don't think that's ombre hair color on purpose. Ombre only got big maybe 3-5 years ago? Michelle just has fried ends. Perms and Aussie sprunch spray will do that. 

 

That 1990 pic with the ugly floral dress and huge white collar - i think my (at the time) 80 year old Nonna had that dress. Tea length floral Laura Ashley dresses with poofy sleeves and drop waists were huge in the late 80s-early 90s on girls, but I don't really recall any adults wearing that stuff. The only teens I knew who wore Laura Ashley were the very preppy ones forced to wear them to church, or old ladies. I guess the shapeless drop waist dresses were modest for pregnant Michelle, but I can't imagine Jim Bob paying for Laura Ashley.

 

I think Michelle's weird teased up halo and the then long fried mess in the back is due to her cutting her own hair. That was not a style any stylist would create on purpose. She really does have a pretty face, but that raggedy hair is just tragic.

 

Someone said it looked high maintenance - actually, besides a home perm every 3-6 months, that hair is very low maintenance. Douse it with gel when wet, scrunch it dry and then coat with Aussie Sprunch Spray, White Rain or Rave, and you're good to go for a few days. Old school hair spray is like aerosol cement. 

 

Jim Bob looks like the long lost inbred Kennedy cousin that's kept out of sight in a barn somewhere, because he just ain't right in the head. Somehow Josh even manages to look like a smug, smarmy pre-schooler. 

[Churchhoney]

Someone said it looked high maintenance - actually, besides a home perm every 3-6 months, that hair is very low maintenance. Douse it with gel when wet, scrunch it dry and then coat with Aussie Sprunch Spray, White Rain or Rave, and you're good to go for a few days. Old school hair spray is like aerosol cement. 

 

 

Sounds comfortable. Does it cut your neck when you sleep on it?

[Happyfatchick]

I had crunchy hair for awhile. Couldn't keep it because I can't STAND all that product in my hair. But holy orangutan, batman, the HAIR in that one pic... I clicked on it, and BAM!!! Unbelievable!!! Ghastly! Even for that time period, that was some wild hot mess!

[Abstract]

Michelle's hair reminds me of when I was on a closed super-fundie forum about 10 years ago. This lady posted asking for advice. Her husband wanted her to get a perm because when they met, she had Julia-Roberts-in-Pretty-Woman hair and he wanted her to have that again. However, not only did she not want to do it, he was a total cheapskate and only allowed her to buy the very cheapest shampoo, and she knew she could not re-create that look without the expensive products she used back when she was single. She received advice to go ahead and do what he wanted and ask her parents to pay for some quality hair products. This advice was given in perky cheerleader form, encouraging her to make her husband happy. A little passive-aggressiveness also, because it was suggested he would see the error of his ways once the hair did not turn out like his fantasy.

That forum is where I first heard about the Duggars. The women there were absolutely in awe and would post excitedly when a new special was coming on.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Abstract

[flyingdi]

In these photos Josh is the only one whose looks have consistently stayed the same. He looks exactly the same as an adult as he did as a kid. The other kids, not so much.

[kokapetl]

In these photos Josh is the only one whose looks have consistently stayed the same. He looks exactly the same as an adult as he did as a kid. The other kids, not so much.

You mean aside from the hairloss and weight gain?

It seems his hair has always been dark

[Jordan Baker]

In the 1992 picture, is that Jana next to Michelle? I assume so, based on her size. I never realized how much Jordyn looks like her.