S04.E08: Episode 08

[Gem 10]

4 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I am thinking..... maybe just maybe Cole's "point of view" was all in his head and Alison did not die? Eh, wishful thinking on my part. She is dead. Noah's POV at the very end of the episode showed it as fact.

RIP Alison

Could it be that you are right about Coles POV?  I  wouldn’t put it past the writers.  I just might watch the last two episodes to find out for sure.

[cardigirl]

11 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I have some fears concerning what may come, but really loved this episode. Loved the acting. 

I even hate to post what I fear they may be setting up.  I didn't want to say anything until the episode had aired at its regular time. I watch it On Demand on Sunday mornings.  My very favorite part of this episode was the end where Noah was watching the family, much like his used to be, come into the restaurant, and then the waitress taking their order, and his envisioning his first sighting of Alison, and all that that had wrought, and his breaking down into tears.  Such fine acting by Dominic and by Joshua in this episode.  Just superb.  

My fear is that somehow Helen is going to be the catalyst for Alison's spiral. I'll be really sad if that's the case, but I think it'll be another twist that they'll be looking to give us.

[Gem 10]

Well, I guess next week we will see Vic dying to add to the sadness.  Then we will see Helen being comforted by the neighbor as they are so friendly now.

[LilaFowler]

11 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Could it be that you are right about Coles POV?  I  wouldn’t put it past the writers.  I just might watch the last two episodes to find out for sure.

The showrunner did an interview and confirmed that Allison is dead.

That said, the showrunner also emphasized that the story is not over yet and what we have been told about her death is not the whole story. So I imagine that Allison's death will be its own story for the rest of the season and probably into the final season.

[chocolatine]

I've always thought the opening song was about Alison, and, unlike some commenters here, I never believed that there would be a "happy ending" with the original couples getting back together. Still, I was absolutely shocked that Alison died now, with another season left to go - well done, show, for not being predictable!

I also don't find it hard to believe that Alison killed herself. Having children unfortunately doesn't stop a troubled person from killing themselves. There have been several recent high-profile cases of parents of young children committing suicide, Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain being the most prominent. What the detective said about Alison made a lot of sense. Very often professionals who don't have an emotional attachment to someone can assess that person's state of mind much better than a loved one. The show will try to misdirect and pretend that Alison was murdered, but I believe we'll eventually find out it was suicide after all.

[chick binewski]

42 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Interview with the showrunner.  They killed off Alison because Ruth Wilson wanted to leave the show.  Interesting read:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/live-feed/affair-death-explained-1132269?__twitter_impression=true

And they shot all of Wilson's stuff first? It sounds like she really wanted out. I had been wondering if they were going to use Wilson next year but I guess that's out.

[LotusFlower]

4 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

And they shot all of Wilson's stuff first? It sounds like she really wanted out. I had been wondering if they were going to use Wilson next year but I guess that's out.

Right.  And the showrunner sounded a little frosty about it (Ruth Wilson wanting out).  Although that might just be my impression.

[grommit2]

Wow.
1) Kudos to the writers.  They sure did make us sit up straight and gasp. 
2) This is annoying.  First, Homeland kills off Quinn, the best character on TV.  Then The Affair makes the lead character "sink back into the ocean". 
3) What next?  Kill off Ray Donovan?  Let the Yankees go on a streak and knock off the coolest team in baseball, the Red Sox?  Aggh!

[chick binewski]

6 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Right.  And the showrunner sounded a little frosty about it (Ruth Wilson wanting out).  Although that might just be my impression.

I agree and the more I think about it the more I have to credit the writers for crafting the story of bringing Cole & Noah together, despite all the crap about O'Hare and the walkabout. 

[bilgistic]

Last week I was watching this show and rolling my eyes at Helen and Sierra while saying, "This fucking show..." and tonight I was gutted by Cole and Noah and crying. This was easily the best episode of the series.

If I'm wrong about what happened to Alison and it was foul play, then I'm wrong, but the way she has been written is very realistic for someone with suicidal ideation and mental health struggles (she was in inpatient care for awhile), speaking from personal experience. Her saying "if I made it to 35 and didn't feel any better..." hit me hard. I've made similar deals with myself. (I am in therapy, have been medicated for over 20 years, and have tried different treatments with little success.)

I did enjoy the boys' road trip! (Until the end...)

[hoodooznoodooz]

“What was she planning on doing? Relaxing herself to death?”

I know that this episode is very sad and upsetting, but I love Anton. 

[Sader87]

Fishface sleeps with the fishes....

[Rock knocker]

3 hours ago, funnygirl said:

 Luisa approached Alison about signing over her rights to Joanie "for show" so that she can get her green card

How would that work?  You don't get to sign your rights to kids like a car, they would have to go through a formal adoption.

29 minutes ago, Sader87 said:

Fishface sleeps with the fishes....

Yea!   I hated her

[MrsPatrickBateman]

I really hope they aren't going to have Lousia be the one that killed Alison. She is Joanie's only stable parent. 

What if Lousia did do it, Cole finds out and doesn't turn her in and that's his big declaration of love to her? I mean I highly doubt it seeing as he didn't even respect her enough to go end his marriage first before going to try and hook up with Alison but maybe it's a better option instead of finding another live in nanny/housemaid. 

[EyesGlazed]

Holy HELL!  I am so shocked and sad!  When Noah went into the morgue to view the body, I fully expected it would not be Alison and he'd look up at Cole and shake his head no, and then they'd be back on the road looking for her.  Gawd!  It was just heartbreaking.  I always wondered why the opening credits every season showed Alison in water when her son died by drowning and she never went swimming.  It was foreshadowing I guess.

But I'm glad this isn't the last season because it would just be too sorrowful to leave all the characters like this, with Alison dead and Vik dying.  So here are my guesses:  Alison did something loopy like going out on the jetty in the storm to say a sort of goodbye to her son and try to restart her life as a new "story" as Helen suggested, but then she was caught by a wave and died accidentally.  Cole and Luisa stay together because now he really needs her and she doesn't know he was going to leave her.  Ben f**ks off.  Anton goes to Princeton and his mother moves to NJ and takes a good job at a school there.  Sierra is pregnant and confesses all to Helen, who tells Vik, who is happy but continues dying.  Next season, Sierra has the baby  and Helen and Noah get back together and move back to New York.  Noah writes another book.  

Or, maybe Cole and Sierra hook up.  Ha ha just kidding.

[scrb]

16 hours ago, Lozu68 said:

No. We still have 2 more episodes in S4. And we will get a S5 sometime in 2019!

Could they draw this mystery of Alison over the rest of the series?  Didn’t the Scotty Lockhart mystery drag over a season?

I guess these relationships aren’t enough and they want the narrative driven by another mysterious death?

 

This road trip looked ominous earlier in the season.  Turned out to be serious and heartbreaking yet they had to thrown in the interlude with the racist motel owner and daughter.  What the hell was that about, struggling to come up with 10 episodes this season?

Theyre going to really struggle to come up with good segments with one of the main characters gone.

though it seems there will be some Alison segments as some kind of flashbacks or what, multiple timelines?  Ugh if they try to pull a Westworld next season

So maybe more of Luisa or they will introduce new characters.  

But really the stories for many of these characters can end now, have them all come to the funeral and go their separate ways.

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

My fear is that somehow Helen is going to be the catalyst for Alison's spiral. I'll be really sad if that's the case, but I think it'll be another twist that they'll be looking to give us.

Same - but she really just told her to stop being the victim and own her shit.

Quote

I also don't find it hard to believe that Alison killed herself.

I agree. I don't echo the "she wouldn't do that to Joanie" sentiment. She took off on her already. When she got the counseling job - she was oblivious when Cole asked her how that was going to affect Joanie (the long commute) - she even responded "what about Joanie?"

So Otter lived 20 miles away but Alison rode her bike there? I'm not saying that it can't be done - but odd.

Ben killing her - obvious. (He tells Cole that she was thinking about going to LA - but really, she had already returned)

Otter killing her - more obvious. (How did he know about about her running off the first time? Seems like a convenient incident to bring up to convince someone of her  mental state.)

Luisa killing her - reasonable (but I hope not. I don't get the Luisa hate on this board).

Maybe Ben's wife killed her.

I think the next two episodes and the final season will be like a "How To Get Away With Murder" and work backwards to show who killed her or what really happened.

 

I was never an Allison fan.  I could never understand how she could make men lose their shit, since she always looked so dowdy and disheveled. I was shocked though.

Edited August 6, 2018 by chabelisaywow

[Chas411]

Quote

I'd be seriously surprised if the writers made an undocumented immigrant a murderer, they know they'd catch tons of shit for that.

Not to mention it would be crappy writing. Part of what always drives me mad about this show is what a Big Bad everyone always is from Alisons point of view. Luisa was treated like shit by Cole and I don't think Alison dying will change anything. I think they're over regardless. Having her kill Alison is just needless and soapy.

also I'll go stand in my own corner as someone who doesn't see Cole/Alison as an epic love tragedy. Judging by the stories were told about the day Gabriel died they had marital trouble back then. She never loved him as much as he loved her. She always loved herself that little bit more. He loved the idea of her and being able to save her. I think they both loved the idea of them working out as a couple but had they gotten back together something else would have happened and they'd have been over just as quickly. 

[cardigirl]

So . . . I had to spend about twenty minutes trying to figure out who Otter was, since there was no Otter in this show, ha ha. 

I think Alison’s death will turn out to be suicide or an accident. Someone went to see her and she ran to get away from them and fell and hit her head and died. I don’t think she was murdered. 

After last season, I’m very surprised to find myself this invested in the show again.

[mochamajesty]

5 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Last week I was watching this show and rolling my eyes at Helen and Sierra while saying, "This fucking show..." and tonight I was gutted by Cole and Noah and crying. This was easily the best episode of the series.

If I'm wrong about what happened to Alison and it was foul play, then I'm wrong, but the way she has been written is very realistic for someone with suicidal ideation and mental health struggles (she was in inpatient care for awhile), speaking from personal experience. Her saying "if I made it to 35 and didn't feel any better..." hit me hard. I've made similar deals with myself. (I am in therapy, have been medicated for over 20 years, and have tried different treatments with little success.)

I did enjoy the boys' road trip! (Until the end...)

I hope that you keep fighting and i wish you well. 

 

The comments on this thread  remind me of how ignorant  people are about mental illness.  Having children or money prevents  nothing. There are many examples of this. 

 

I believe that Allison was very depressed prior to Gabriel's death. I doubt she was ever happy . I believe it was suicide. I too am wondering  where they go from here. 

[Lozu68]

8 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

Interview with the showrunner.  They killed off Alison because Ruth Wilson wanted to leave the show.  Interesting read:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/live-feed/affair-death-explained-1132269?__twitter_impression=true

Yup...just read this article. Now I am speechless. She really IS dead....

Happy Monday?

[Lozu68]

7 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

“What was she planning on doing? Relaxing herself to death?”

I know that this episode is very sad and upsetting, but I love Anton. 

We all really NEEDED Anton in this episode!!

[Chas411]

I think Anton has been a great addition to the cast.

[casey65]

2 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

The comments on this thread remind me of how  ignorant people are about mental illness. Having children or money prevents nothing. 

I commented  that I **hated to think** Allison would kill herself because of how it would hurt Joanie, not that I thought having Joanie would preclude her from committing suicide.  Believe me I understand depression and mental illness.  I have one sibling with schizophrenia and another who has fought severe depression most of their life.  Just wanted to say that because I see so many comments referring back to it. I made the original comment coming from the perspective of a mom who fought cancer when her kids were young and my greatest fear was leaving them.  So yes, I still do hate to think Allison would do that to her daughter.  But I certainly understand that Allison has been depicted as suicidal and seriously depressed all along.  

[mochamajesty]

32 minutes ago, casey65 said:

I commented  that I **hated to think** Allison would kill herself because of how it would hurt Joanie, not that I thought having Joanie would preclude her from committing suicide.  Believe me I understand depression and mental illness.  I have one sibling with schizophrenia and another who has fought severe depression most of their life.  Just wanted to say that because I see so many comments referring back to it. I made the original comment coming from the perspective of a mom who fought cancer when her kids were young and my greatest fear was leaving them.  So yes, I still do hate to think Allison would do that to her daughter.  But I certainly understand that Allison has been depicted as suicidal and seriously depressed all along.  

Thanks but no worries.

 

You aren't the only one to say this. Even the Afterbuzz commentators point blank said that Allison wouldn't commit suicide because she wouldn't leave Joanie.

 

I wonder if they knew they were getting a season five when they wrote this. I thought that this was the final season. It should be IMO. 

Poor Louisa. I wonder how it feels to know you got the guy by default? 

[bc1795]

If  you watched closely,  Noah mouths "Duck Lips"  when they pull back the sheet.

[Janc]

9 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

Right.  And the showrunner sounded a little frosty about it (Ruth Wilson wanting out).  Although that might just be my impression.

Blind items had it that Ruth Wilson and Joshua Jackson had a relationship off screen that ended... maybe it ended badly and she didn't want to return to the show?

[Mindthinkr]

Just playing devils advocate here...what if Allison went back to talk to her Dad again. The conversation wasn’t going well and his wife went after Allison (with his health being so tenuous I don’t believe that her Dad had the strength to) and it got bad. Allison might have taken a fall or they set her up to look like she died from an accidental fall or went brain dead and then they were going to call an ambulance and get her to be set up as a kidney donor for him except that it all went wrong so they (maybe the garden staff or others on his payroll) disposed of the body off the jetty to make it look like an accident or suicide. 

[Gem 10]

Oh geeze, now we have to witness a funeral.  All I have to say is I’ve never seen a series so well written with all the twists and turns.  Amazing.  Guess I’ll have to finish as I am fully drawn, although I was totally shocked about Allison.

[Cirien]

10 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

Right.  And the showrunner sounded a little frosty about it (Ruth Wilson wanting out).  Although that might just be my impression.

Honestly can't blame Ruth if she wanted out. 

[preeya]

12 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Could it be that you are right about Coles POV?  I  wouldn’t put it past the writers.  I just might watch the last two episodes to find out for sure.

Per the writers Alison is dead. Here's an excerpt of an interview with Treem:
 

Quote

 

To be clear, Alison is dead? That is Alison's body Noah saw in the morgue?

Yes.

Was this always the plan for Alison from the very beginning?

No. It was always a possibility for Alison. When I was coming up with Alison, I was thinking of this character we were going to meet right after her child died. As any parent would ask themselves in that terrible situation — even hypothetically as you do sometimes — would you be able to survive it? So that was always a question that I had for the Alison character as a kind of an existential question. How does a parent survive it? And would this character ultimately be able to? That is a question that she was asking herself when we first met her, before she met Noah. And in so many ways the impetus for the affair from Alison's perspective was trying to outrun that pain. It was always a possibility for Alison somewhere in my mind that she wouldn't ultimately survive.

At what point did you decide Alison would die this season? And why at this point in the story?

Ruth wanted to leave the show. That was a request, so that was decided basically before we started writing. It wasn't a discovery of any kind. That was very deliberate. And actually, we shot all of her work first. Her whole storyline was shot before we shot anything else. 

 

1

Edited August 6, 2018 by preeya

[Bandolero]

Wanted to add that thinking that Alison wouldn’t kill herself because of Joanie is a perfectly valid viewpoint. Yes we know that there are countless people who kill themselves even with young children BUT I am sure there are others who do hold on because of their kids and family. I just happen to think that Alison is one of those people. I could be wrong, of course. 

[lesmisfits29]

I would blame RW for wanting out. It’s a crappy thing to do with one season left... especially in a show with only 10 épisodes.

Edited August 6, 2018 by lesmisfits29

[Chas411]

And the fact that they had to film all her stuff first? Just sounds a bit weird.

[scrb]

24 minutes ago, lesmisfits29 said:

I would blame RW for wanting out. It’s a crappy thing to do with one season left... especially in a show with only 10 épisodes.

Maybe she didn't believe a show about an affair should last so long past its sell date.  Or just wanted to move on.

[taragel]

When I looked up what new show Ruth is doing, it turns out it's a BBC drama based on the life of her own grandmother, Alison (heh) Wilson. She's a producer and clearly shepherded it into being. Makes sense to me that she wanted off to do such a personal project. Perhaps the timing ended up needing to be earlier than expected to accommodate other people's schedules. (There are also rumors on twitter that there was sexual harassment on the set that might have contributed to this. Though I doubt it has anything to do with Joshua Jackson. It seems their brief dating period was over long ago and supposedly he's with someone else now. And given that he managed to work with Katie Holmes for years after they broke up on Dawson's...I'd be surprised if it was an issue.)

I appreciate how under wraps they kept this so that it was truly surprising and shocking.  I think it's going to turn out that Alison did indeed commit suicide, but clearly something more with Ben might have contributed to that choice. I'm very curious as to what S5 will be about though. I really don't think they're going to go the courtroom/murder trial route again and I don't know that Noah's trials with teaching are all that interesting. Helen and Vik's predicament has some legs and Cole's storyline could be wide open assuming he leaves Luisa. Actually, depending on what happens with Vik, I wouldn't be surprised by another time jump.

Edited August 6, 2018 by taragel

[mochamajesty]

29 minutes ago, Bandolero said:

Wanted to add that thinking that Alison wouldn’t kill herself because of Joanie is a perfectly valid viewpoint. Yes we know that there are countless people who kill themselves even with young children BUT I am sure there are others who do hold on because of their kids and family. I just happen to think that Alison is one of those people. I could be wrong, of course. 

You are IMO where Alison is concerned. Why would she transfer the money into Joanie's account? 

[JennyMominFL]

1 hour ago, bc1795 said:

If  you watched closely,  Noah mouths "Duck Lips"  when they pull back the sheet.

I bet a picture of her lips was the main pic that Cole was going to use to identify her

[Blakeston]

There are lots of parents out there who are much more responsible than Alison who have nonetheless tried to kill themselves.

It rarely has anything to do with them not caring about their kids. People at the lowest levels of depression genuinely believe that their loved ones will be better off without them. I could easily picture Alison feeling that way about Joanie.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, lesmisfits29 said:

I would blame RW for wanting out. It’s a crappy thing to do with one season left... especially in a show with only 10 épisodes.

 

The season had been written and shot when it was announced that the show would be renewed for a fifth and final season. So when Ruth asked, she didn't know if the fourth was the end or if it was going to last longer.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Irlandesa

[scrb]

I guess this will solve Luisa's immigration problems.  She will become the kid's guardian, like she wanted.

 

Or maybe Luisa killed Alison!!!

[Bandolero]

To be honest I’ve never really understood the whole guardian thing with Luisa (I mean, even with Alison gone, Joanie still has her father, grandparents, uncles, etc.). Why would that make a difference in Luisa’s immigration status. She isn’t even the biological mother and she is not related to Joanie except through marriage. Aren’t undocumented biological parents deported all the time in the US?

Edited August 6, 2018 by Bandolero

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, preeya said:

Per the writers Alison is dead. Here's an excerpt of an interview with Treem:
 

Thank you for the info.  Now I know it’s final.

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, Chas411 said:

And the fact that they had to film all her stuff first? Just sounds a bit weird.

Why couldn’t they make this episode the last for this season, like a cliffhanger?  I imagine the next episode will be the funeral and then what to do with Joanie, poor thing.  Although, they threw the kid around with everyone.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Gem 10

[chocolatine]

39 minutes ago, Bandolero said:

To be honest I’ve never really understood the whole guardian thing with Luisa (I mean, even with Alison gone, Joanie still has her father, grandparents, uncles, etc.). Why would that make a difference in Luisa’s immigration status. She isn’t even the biological mother and she is not related to Joanie except through marriage. Aren’t undocumented biological parents deported all the time in the US?

Luisa seemed to be under the impression that if she can prove that her deportation would create a hardship for Joanie, she would be able to stay. She told Cole that she wanted him to corroborate that she is the only sane and stable mother figure Joanie has ever had. I agree with you though, given the current political climate, I doubt that it would work out that way. To me it looked like Luisa was desperately grasping at straws and not necessarily in touch with reality.

[Fourseasons]

2 hours ago, taragel said:

When I looked up what new show Ruth is doing, it turns out it's a BBC drama based on the life of her own grandmother, Alison (heh) Wilson. She's a producer and clearly shepherded it into being. Makes sense to me that she wanted off to do such a personal project. Perhaps the timing ended up needing to be earlier than expected to accommodate other people's schedules. (There are also rumors on twitter that there was sexual harassment on the set that might have contributed to this. Though I doubt it has anything to do with Joshua Jackson. It seems their brief dating period was over long ago and supposedly he's with someone else now. And given that he managed to work with Katie Holmes for years after they broke up on Dawson's...I'd be surprised if it was an issue.)

 

 

The sexual harassment that you mentioned was from the lady that was playing Alison's body double and it was from a few seasons back.  It was in the media because she was bringing charges against Showtime.  It was to do with the name that was written for her on a call sheet.  There was no mention of Ruth in the media for this, as it was to do with her body double.   That's all I could find on twitter, so I'm hoping correctly that this is what you are referring to.  Somebody corrected them by saying it was Ruth's body double.  Josh and Ruth never dated.  Ruth cleared that up in quite a few interviews she gave at the time it was speculated.

 Sarah didn't say why Ruth wanted to leave other than she asked to do so.  Ruth has a lot of work on her plate right now, so it's possibly because of that.  She recently was announced to be in a new tv series for the BBC.  Plus she has the series about her grandmother, that you mentioned.  These are the ones I know about and there could be others. Sarah has said great things about the next episode  on twitter, so I don't think there is any animosity there from her.

This was a wonderful episode and I was sorry to see that this was how it ended for Alison.  The writing was great and this writer will be writing more episodes in the future Sarah has said.  The direction was also great and the director did a great job.  Loved the Noah, Cole and Anton road trip and the humor was what was needed for the gut punch we got in the second half.  It was a really well done and acted episode.  It freshened my resolve to stick with this show because I was seriously wavering during much of this season.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Fourseasons

[weaver]

I was really shocked, not for the character, necessarily, but for the show to write out the lead character (in my mind, anyway).  I would never have suspected that they would do it with a season left.    I don't know that producers accommodate actors in getting out of contracts this way.  She's a huge star in the UK but not here, necessarily.  I wouldn't think she'd have had the clout to ask out and be granted it.   She will always have a lot of work with her talent.  I can understand how she got bored with the part.  I've always loved her since I saw her in Luther and I will miss her in the show.    

Brilliant acting especially by Cole last night.  Anton was welcome comic relief; he had just the right touch.  

[Chas411]

I think by wanting to leave Ruth Wilson has unintentionally rejuvenated the show. It's been great this year.

While she's been the focus Alison and her self pitying ways have long been dead weight to the show. Id rather her gone and spend the final season showing the characters move on from her. While I don't think Cole/Luisa will be end game I would like to see him move on from the fantasy of what he seems to think there love story is. He could never move on while she's alive, maybe in her death he will or at least he'll just find happiness raising Joanie. I just don't feel he'll be in the constant trail of destruction he always seems to be with her.

[Blakeston]

I find it odd that Athena informed Alison's father about her death before contacting Cole and Noah. They were the ones looking for Alison, and they were a hell of a lot closer to Alison than her dad was.

The only way that makes sense to me is if Athena called in a moment of anger to place some of the blame on him.

[mochamajesty]

4 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I find it odd that Athena informed Alison's father about her death before contacting Cole and Noah. They were the ones looking for Alison, and they were a hell of a lot closer to Alison than her dad was.

The only way that makes sense to me is if Athena called in a moment of anger to place some of the blame on him.

She knew they were there. She may have tried Cole and Noah but their phones were not on. They turned them in before the dinner.