S04.E08: Episode 08

[Milburn Stone]

7 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

It's phony because? 

One thing that calls itself out to me from @preeya's transcript is that we have only James' word for it that it was Athena on the other end of the line. And so far it seems like James doesn't lie all the time, only when he opens his mouth.

[preeya]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

I definitely don't know the answer to that, but TV tells me that detectives know how to figure all that stuff out. :)

@cardigirl, your answer to @AngelaHunter was persuasive as to why Athena would have called Otter with the news--but I'm still missing the part where we know that it was Athena who called Otter with the news. Did he say so to Cole and Noah when he get off the phone? Or did he say "Hi Athena" when he answered the phone? Or did his wife say it was her? All I can remember is that when I watched, I wasn't sure who he was talking to and I don't remember getting the information in the scene.

The wife came back to where they were eating and said something like "you better take this"

Otter took the phone and exited the room. When he returned he said:

"That was Athena.
They found her.

They've... found her body.

She drowned herself.

She's dead."

 

Highly suspect from my skeptical POV.

Edited August 9, 2018 by preeya

[preeya]

14 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

It's phony because? 

I don't think they would have made notification to Athena until they had a positive ID of the body, which came later on when Cole & Noah went to the morgue.

[cardigirl]

Okay, but I'm not sure WHY he would lie about Athena calling to tell them they had found Alison.  Or at least, WHY would he lie about it being Athena, who had called. That's easily proven one way or the other. Do you think Athena is in on something with James in Alison's death?  

 

I'm not sure why he would need to lie about the phone call at all.

[preeya]

54 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Okay, but I'm not sure WHY he would lie about Athena calling to tell them they had found Alison.  Or at least, WHY would he lie about it being Athena, who had called. That's easily proven one way or the other. Do you think Athena is in on something with James in Alison's death?  

 

I'm not sure why he would need to lie about the phone call at all.

I'm not sure either. It's just that this guy seems like someone who should be looked at with a whole lot of skepticism. Perhaps he needs an alibi(?) or there's a conspiracy that has yet to be revealed. At this point, we are at the mercy of the showrunners/ writers.

[Dminches]

8 minutes ago, preeya said:

I'm not sure either. It's just that this guy seems like someone who should be looked at with a whole lot of skepticism. Perhaps he needs an alibi(?) or there's a conspiracy that has yet to be revealed. At this point, we are at the mercy of the showrunners/ writers.

This was all from Cole’s POV so maybe he said something completely different (sarcasm).

[Elizzikra]

Quote

The phone call at the father's house seemed to me as phony as a three dollar bill.

I think it was well-explained. Athena knew that Cole and Noah were going to James's house. She couldn't reach them (because of the "phones in the basket" rule). So she called the house.

I think the cop "knew" it was Alison - at a minimum, he knew she was missing and they found a body matching her description. Also he had met her before and he'd undoubtedly seen photos from the missing persons report. But they needed a relative for the official identification. My guess is that they also test DNA though that would take time to come back.

I don't see the phony here but maybe I'm missing something?

Quote

I don't think they would have made notification to Athena until they had a positive ID of the body, which came later on when Cole & Noah went to the morgue.

It makes sense to me that he would call Athena - she is Alison's next of kin and she is likely the one who made the missing person's report. I don't think the cop definitively said "we found Alison." I think he probably said something like "we found a drowning victim that matches the description of your daughter and we need someone to come and identify her." I think Athena made the logical leap that 1) how many missing women in the Montauk area would there be matching Alison's description? and 2) she suspected that something was up with Alison being missing - and probably realized there was a likelihood that Alison was dead.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Elizzikra

[cardigirl]

What I am most worried about is seeing the end of the visit Alison has with Helen in California. And her breakup with Ben. 

[bilgistic]

Can we please stop referring to Alison's biological father as "Otter"? Several commenters and I have no idea what the "joke" or reference is (it's some other role he played decades ago, I gather). He's "Alison's biological father" or, apparently, "James", as a recent commenter discovered.

I mean, we're not referring to Helen as her ER character's name. No one's calling Noah by the character's name he played in Mona Lisa Smile. Cole isn't being called Pacey.

[Milburn Stone]

15 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Can we please stop referring to Alison's biological father as "Otter"? Several commenters and I have no idea what the "joke" or reference is (it's some other role he played decades ago, I gather). He's "Alison's biological father" or, apparently, "James", as a recent commenter discovered.

I mean, we're not referring to Helen as her ER character's name. No one's calling Noah by the character's name he played in Mona Lisa Smile. Cole isn't being called Pacey.

Certain portrayals are just indelible. :)

[cardigirl]

40 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Can we please stop referring to Alison's biological father as "Otter"? Several commenters and I have no idea what the "joke" or reference is (it's some other role he played decades ago, I gather). He's "Alison's biological father" or, apparently, "James", as a recent commenter discovered.

I mean, we're not referring to Helen as her ER character's name. No one's calling Noah by the character's name he played in Mona Lisa Smile. Cole isn't being called Pacey.

It IS confusing.  I had to google for like, 20 minutes, the other day to try and figure out who the heck the poster was talking about.   

[Diane12251]

But it's fun to call him Otter... :)

Edited August 9, 2018 by Diane12251
typo!!

[Diane12251]

I agree that you can't necessarily say it was suicide simply because there was water in her lungs.  She could have been seriously hurt and still been alive when someone dumped her in the ocean, and she died there.  I'm leaning toward murder, not suicide - by either Luisa or Cherry.  Someone said something about Athena maybe killing her, but I can't see how that would play out.  Luisa is my #1 guess - jealousy over Cole, thinking she needs Alison out of the way, plus wanting Alison to give up her parental rights so she and Cole can raise Joanie, as a way out of her immigration problem.

[JennyMominFL]

I don’t care what role Henry Winkler plays, I will always call him Fonzie. That’s just way it is. 

The death announcement reminded me of the scene from Roseanne where Jackie had to  call people to tell them that dad died.

.. I have some bad news... Dad is not with us anymore... 

[slowly getting louder]

Jackie: I said Dad has passed away... He's passed away!... Dad is gone!... Dad's dead!... He's dead!... NO, *DEAD!*... *DAD!*... ..,,,He's fine! He sends his love! Bye

or maybe She is an ex-alison

Edited August 9, 2018 by JennyMominFL

[izabella]

I can't get behind the theories that Allison was murdered.  No one on this show is a murderer.  Scottie's death was not murder, and that's the only death we've seen.  Occam's Razor - Allison was a mess, she was depressed, and she committed suicide, or had some kind of accident.  It's far more believable than Luisa - the only stable parent Joanie has had (as we've been saying) - suddenly deciding to kill Allison.  We've never seen her do anything remotely resembling being able to kill Joanie's mother or anybody.  Ben is the only one we don't really know, but again, murder is a leap.  Unless it was an accident, I doubt Ben killed her.

Edited August 9, 2018 by izabella

[Diane12251]

Murder may be a leap, but it is still a possibility.  Accident possible, too.  I just have a hard time believing it was suicide.

[Mindthinkr]

4 minutes ago, Diane12251 said:

Murder may be a leap, but it is still a possibility.  Accident possible, too.  I just have a hard time believing it was suicide.

For the sake of going forward with this show (especially one more season after this) I hope that it’s a murder mystery. Watching Allison just spiraling down to suicide might be depressing and lackluster. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Murder may be a leap, but it is still a possibility.  Accident possible, too.  I just have a hard time believing it was suicide.

Thereby demonstrating the central theme of the show - everyone's reality is different. Suicide makes more sense to me than any other possibility, with accident a second believeable possibility and murder a distant third...

[Diane12251]

7 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

For the sake of going forward with this show (especially one more season after this) I hope that it’s a murder mystery. Watching Allison just spiraling down to suicide might be depressing and lackluster. 

I totally agree.  Besides, I like murder mysteries.

[Milburn Stone]

I think it was Anton's father. To make him miss his interview.

[NutMeg]

19 hours ago, suomi said:

Contradictory POVs is an interesting device but I think its potential isn't being realized; after awhile it doesn't satisfy because the truth isn't revealed. After being shown diverging viewpoints, why do the viewers have to decide how Alison was dressed or how she conducted herself? Was Alison frumpy and unsure or was she slinky and confident? Who was pursued and hesitant and who was the pursuer who wouldn't take no for an answer? I can't honestly say, because the writers didn't inform me. It's somewhat comparable to reading a book with conflicting paragraphs and no last chapter. We're all aware that in a legal sense eyewitness accounts are notoriously incorrect, to lesser and greater degrees. These accounts arise from situations where people are jolted by witnessing something unexpected which heightens and also warps awareness. But, hoo boy, the characters on this show conduct their lives in a constant state of unreliable perception and we don't see what really happened. Except for when we do, like when the Lockharts shut down their drug running operation after they found out Oscar dropped a dime. So we should take some scenes/motivations at face value but others depend on _ _ _ _?

Alison's POV regarding meeting her father was extremely well done. His version of early events meshed perfectly with Athena's version and revealed an important, plausible and understandable facet of Athena's psyche. Athena was explained to the viewer's satisfaction and Alison was thrown for a fucking loop and the story was moved along. But, heh heh from the writer's room, maybe that didn't happen. Maybe learning that the man who sired her during a rape and finally contacted her for his own selfish reasons and watching her mother cackle and stew in her own pain while ignoring her daughter's trauma didn't push fragile/ballsy Alison over the edge. Sheesh, these writers give with one hand and take away with the other.

I think it would be more effective if each hour was a mixture of perception and reality, say, 20 minutes of Alison's POV and 20 minutes of Noah's POV and 20 minutes of reality. Or in a 10-episode season the last two episodes would be the truth. Or variations of those time ratios because some plot lines are more important than others. But, jeez, some way, somehow tell us who these people are. Don't keep us guessing. 

But that's just the point, there is no "reality". You and I could watch the same man perform, you'd think he's great and I'd think he's lame (and vice versa). The whole point of the show is that people remember things in different ways, and this season I've finally realised that it's not about who is right and who is wrong in their perception (to be fair, I think I realised that earlier, but you know, perception and all, maybe I'm wrong) but that the important point is how they view and remember events.

For instance, it's normal for Alison to think her dad wants her kidney if he mentions waiting for a kidney the first time he meets her. But if you go from the dad's viewpoint, you get that it's not necessarily true, maybe you just want the child you just reconnect with to know that you might not be there for long.  

4 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Can we please stop referring to Alison's biological father as "Otter"? Several commenters and I have no idea what the "joke" or reference is (it's some other role he played decades ago, I gather). He's "Alison's biological father" or, apparently, "James", as a recent commenter discovered.

I mean, we're not referring to Helen as her ER character's name. No one's calling Noah by the character's name he played in Mona Lisa Smile. Cole isn't being called Pacey.

THANK YOU! I kept wondering why I had never heard this Otter name while everyone seemed so sure that was what he was called.  

[JenE4]

On 8/5/2018 at 2:32 PM, Bandolero said:

Just wanted to say one of the best lines was Cole’s “Let me guess, you’re fucking his mother.” So funny and so very true. Typical Noah behavior.

 I thought the best (funniest—as opposed to the emotional lines)—was Anton’s: “Macking?? 1991 called—on a landline—and wants you to fax its slang back.”

On the opposite end of the spectrum—the scene that just gutted me—was Noah seeing this family come into the restaurant, dad just like him sitting next to a little girl who looked just like Stacy at the time—and envisioning the first time he laid eyes on Allison. And then just losing it crying! I was thinking how the hell does Noah get a 4-minute “part” as opposed to Cole’s 50 minutes. But, god damn, 4 minutes was all he needed! 

On 8/5/2018 at 6:04 PM, lesmisfits29 said:

I didnt see this coming at all... So sad to see Alison go.

At this point, I think there’s foul play. 

Nothing we saw from Alison last POV gave us an indication of her being suicidal.

Also, what was that scene in the recap where Noah and Alison discuss her father? Cant recall the episode.

I disagree. We saw her in an emotionally fragile  and spiraling state, for sure. We know she has a history of severe depression and self-harm (cutting), she recently institutionalized herself for 6 months, and she tried drowning herself in season 1. Since that’s already been her go-to method of suicide, it seems highly likely she drowned herself.

The scene of them talking was in Block Island, when they missed the ferry and stayed at that bed and breakfast.

 

On 8/6/2018 at 5:36 PM, MBayGal said:

From the interview with Treem in the Hollywood Reporter:

"The thing that's always true about The Affair is that it's all coming from perspective. And so in my mind … James didn't necessarily ask Alison for a kidney in this. You just don't know. He's specifically playing a character who is not necessarily the same character as the man that Alison met. That was filtered through her own perspective"

To me, this is a ridiculous statement.  I know this show often shows people recalling things differently, but this goes too far.  Unless they want us to think that Alison is totally psychotic, why would she think he asked her for her kidney if he didn't? 

When Anton said xanax would only kill you if you mixed it too much with alcohol, I thought that was how she would die. 

I think it’s entirely reasonable that the father only wanted to meet her before he dies and never mentioned a kidney at all. Just yesterday my husband and I were talking about one thing and then suddenly he went off on this other emotional tangent on a whole different topic and completely made up something he thought I was implying because he was feeling stressed and emotional about the other thing. It took quite a bit of talking him down to get him to realize I didn’t say anything about the other thing. So, yeah, 100% Allison could have made up that the dad asked for her kidney because SHE thinks that’s the only reason he’d be contacting her now if he never bothered to meet her in thirty-something years. We’ve also seen that Allison has a propensity for tragic over-imagination; Joanie fell off a horse and she imagined her dead and bleeding from the mouth when we know the kid was fine.

[Should have quoted someone talking about the murder mystery here to change the topic.]

I think just like “Oh, no! Who stabbed Noah?!?” turned out to be “Lolz, it was as just Noah, but no worries, he’s FINE now.” I think the person who killed Allison is Allison. I suppose it could be a big twist and it could be Luisa or someone. But I think it is more meaningful that it’s Allison. She’s been a tragic character from the moment we met her—it’s how everyone has defined her—it’s how she has defined herself. We’ve seen her struggling against her own demons for years and barely hanging on. And as for how we left saw her, it was with Helen telling her SHE’s the one who makes people use her or see her as a sex object. At the time it seemed like it could have been an encouraging way to see it—you have agency to change how people perceive you by taking accountability for your behavior. But for someone already in the deeply fragile emotional state that she was in with her history of depression, anxiety, and attempted suicide, it could have been that final push for her to think she’s worthless. That’s not to “blame” Helen there, but with Cole going off and accusing everyone what did you SAY to her??? Everyone will have “said” something to her but it doesn’t matter because it was Allison’s choice. She has agency in her life but sadly she thinks the only agency she has is in ending it.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

We know she has a history of severe depression and self-harm (cutting)

True although for the record, most cutters are not suicidal (though sometimes they can accidentally cut too deep). 

I'm also in the "Alison committed suicide" camp. I have some experience with a child who lost her mother to suicide at about Joanie's age and it could be really interesting to see the aftermath of that on Joanie, Cole and everyone else. I'd love to see how they told a story from Joanie's perspective.

[BunchOMalarkey]

On 8/8/2018 at 12:45 AM, LuvMyShows said:

IRL, if these two bullying blustering men stormed into your office demanding answers or they wouldn't leave (or whatever bullying Cole was doing), you would probably not just divulge everything...you'd probably have them removed by security.

Also, the "allegedly" part is important.  We have no idea if it's really true...we only know that he told Cole/Noah that he said that to Allison.

This was very strange.  Cole made a point of saying to Noah that he would take Noah anywhere as long as Noah drove because he was so exhausted, and we saw Noah get in the driver's seat. Then not too long after that, they had the scene where Cole is driving and crossing over the center line, and Noah insists that they pull over.  But why on earth was Cole driving in the first place, when they made such a show of him saying that Noah needed to drive?

I am from that era, and have made sure to pass the story on to my kids ;-) that Dallas was the first to make this famous and it was a big deal (since it un-did an entire season of plot developments), and other shows now do it basically as mocking.

 

This is beyond ridiculous...it's insulting to the viewers and lazy on the part of the show's creator and writers.  

 

OK, party of one apparently, but I don't like the Anton character at all, as he's been written.  It's seems very forced and PC (ooh, look at the prejudiced hotel owner and the rich white woman!), and unrealistically quickly meshed with Cole even though they'd never met.  I don't think that f*ing the hotel girl was mature, but I did like how he had already gotten her digits while Noah was self-importantly giving a Casanova lecture.  I think that Anton's wanting to see the Allison mystery through was nice and all, but Anton had done nothing in the process to help solve the mystery; staying with it rather than heading to Princeton, which is the direction it seemed the plot was headed, is irresponsible as all get out.  It was also weird how long he was gone to take the shower at Otter's house...I thought that was going to be part of the plot, where he did that just so he could snoop and gather clues.  Of course, part of it is that I can't stand that savior Noah is painted as responsible for Anton's remarkable turnaround, both at school and in the home.  Also, I thought that having that person assume that Noah and Cole were married, and Anton their son, was the weirdest conclusion I've ever heard!  Again, seemed very PC, and look-how-clever-and-hip-we-are.

All this being said...episode was riveting, even moreso than usual!

I saw that scene as the hotel owner being prejudiced against what he thought were gay men. He did call them the f-word when he told them to leave. I like Anton. I think he is an interesting character with interesting parents who have a good conflict. It is easy to see why he is so intelligent based on who his parents are.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, BunchOMalarkey said:

I saw that scene as the hotel owner being prejudiced against what he thought were gay men. He did call them the f-word when he told them to leave. I like Anton. I think he is an interesting character with interesting parents who have a good conflict. It is easy to see why he is so intelligent based on who his parents are.

I think the hotel owner had plenty of prejudices to go around. It wouldn't surprise me if he immediately assumed that his daughter would be all over Anton, and that played a part in him not wanting them there.

I was kind of uncomfortable, on a racial level, with the "Cole and Noah sit there in disbelief at Anton's superhuman virility" part of the episode. Although it might be just a reflection of Cole's perceptions and insecurities.

As for whether Alison committed suicide? If this were real life, I would be fairly certain that it was suicide. But considering that this is a TV series (that loves soapy twists), I wouldn't be at all surprised if Alison "chose life" at the last minute, only to be shoved into the water by someone like Luisa.

[Rockfish]

2 hours ago, JenE4 said:

I think just like “Oh, no! Who stabbed Noah?!?” turned out to be “Lolz, it was as just Noah, but no worries, he’s FINE now.” I think the person who killed Allison is Allison. I suppose it could be a big twist and it could be Luisa or someone. But I think it is more meaningful that it’s Allison. She’s been a tragic character from the moment we met her—it’s how everyone has defined her—it’s how she has defined herself. We’ve seen her struggling against her own demons for years and barely hanging on. And as for how we left saw her, it was with Helen telling her SHE’s the one who makes people use her or see her as a sex object. At the time it seemed like it could have been an encouraging way to see it—you have agency to change how people perceive you by taking accountability for your behavior. But for someone already in the deeply fragile emotional state that she was in with her history of depression, anxiety, and attempted suicide, it could have been that final push for her to think she’s worthless. That’s not to “blame” Helen there, but with Cole going off and accusing everyone what did you SAY to her??? Everyone will have “said” something to her but it doesn’t matter because it was Allison’s choice. She has agency in her life but sadly she thinks the only agency she has is in ending it.

Enjoyed your whole post, but I quoted this section because of the Who Stabbed Noah? reference. Last season was such a head-shaking mess that while it’s logical (based on what we’ve seen so far) to conclude Alison committed suicide, it’s probably not what happened. Who knows what Treem and writers have cooked up?

What I find frustrating is how unlike real human beings these characters sometimes behave; for instance when Alison was in California and had her panic attack—why didn’t Noah bring her home with him, after getting Xanax from Vic, so he could keep an eye on and spend time with her? He told Cole she’d been in bad shape. So why hadn’t he maintained contact with her? That’s what friends do for one another when one of them is in a crisis.

Hopefully, the upcoming episodes will explain everything in a sensical, wrapped-in-a-nice-ribbon kinda way—I’ll worry, though, if I see Brendan Fraser’s name in the credits.

[cardigirl]

Just rewatched this episode and I think they are definitely pointing back towards the California visit as the catalyst for Alison's decision.  I was trying to figure out the timeline for everything.  She finds out about her father and him being sick and needing a kidney, her mother's rape, Ben being married and THEN goes to California as an escape, where she has the flight from hell, ends up panicking in Noah's car, and sleeping at Vic and Helen's house. After that, we don't know what happened.  Ben says they broke up.  The detective says Ben has an alibi. No one else has said they saw her after she returned from California?

It was the best episode of the season. Held up really well on rewatch. 

[Mindthinkr]

19 hours ago, Rockfish said:

Hopefully, the upcoming episodes will explain everything in a sensical, wrapped-in-a-nice-ribbon kinda way—I’ll worry, though, if I see Brendan Fraser’s name in the credits.

That’s a scary thought I hadn’t considered but wouldn’t he more likely target Noah? 

[Dminches]

I have been wondering if this isn’t a suicide or murder but an accident.  Maybe Alison walks out on the jetty and slips, hits her head and drowns.  Even if she was distraught at the time maybe she didn’t intend to end her life.

[preeya]

41 minutes ago, Dminches said:

I have been wondering if this isn’t a suicide or murder but an accident.  Maybe Alison walks out on the jetty and slips, hits her head and drowns.  Even if she was distraught at the time maybe she didn’t intend to end her life.

All these mentioned scenarios are possible. We, the viewers, are now at the mercy of the showrunners and writers. I'm hoping they don't go off on some really unplausible tangent.

[Razzberry]

21 hours ago, Rockfish said:

Enjoyed your whole post, but I quoted this section because of the Who Stabbed Noah? reference. Last season was such a head-shaking mess that while it’s logical (based on what we’ve seen so far) to conclude Alison committed suicide, it’s probably not what happened. Who knows what Treem and writers have cooked up?

Exactly.  To me this show is about as reality-based as General Hospital is about the medical profession.  I can't decide if the writers are just having a laugh or are serious,  but the utter lack of humor (before Anton and Sierra, to a lesser extent) is very soapy, so anything is possible.   God I forgot about Brendan Fraser.  lol  At this point Alison actually committing suicide would be the twist. 

[MBayGal]

When people referred to Alison's father as "Otter," I thought they were using his last name for some reason.  I have no idea who the actor is, much less some character he played in some show I guess I didn't watch.  

as for the motel owner who didn't want to rent a room, I thought it was because he saw a young black man in a hoodie.  When the cutie behind the desk said "Love is love" I got that he thought they were gay.  But probably also didn't like the black kid in a hoodie.  Amazing that the cutie was not only able to run the reservation desk  but also wait tables in a busy restaurant.  

And who was Brendan Fraser in this show?  Was he important?  Apparently not to me ?

Edited August 11, 2018 by MBayGal

[preeya]

1 hour ago, MBayGal said:

When people referred to Alison's father as "Otter," I thought they were using his last name for some reason.  I have no idea who the actor is, much less some character he played in some show I guess I didn't watch.  

as for the motel owner who didn't want to rent a room, I thought it was because he saw a young black man in a hoodie.  When the cutie behind the desk said "Love is love" I got that he thought they were gay.  But probably also didn't like the black kid in a hoodie.  Amazing that the cutie was not only able to run the reservation desk  but also wait tables in a busy restaurant.  

And who was Brendan Fraser in this show?  Was he important?  Apparently not to me ?

 

1

Prison guard when Noah was locked up. Also Noah's nemesis after his release.

Edited August 11, 2018 by preeya

[bobbyjoe]

Next week maybe we can see things from Alison’s dad’s perspective:

“Hey, everybody, I’ve got some good news and some bad news.  The good news is: I’m getting a kidney!” [high-fives his wife] “Oh, and the bad news is, uh, Alison’s dead.”

[MBayGal]

Thanks Preeya, for reminding me who B Fraser played.  He was important, but looked so unlike what Fraser used to look like, I had a hard time connecting him to the character.. 

[PreBabylonia]

2 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Thanks Preeya, for reminding me who B Fraser played.  He was important, but looked so unlike what Fraser used to look like, I had a hard time connecting him to the character.. 

Yes, he used to be absolutely gorgeous. Last season really was a mess, now that I think about it. It was never clear to me that Noah actually invented Brendan's prison guard doppleganger, wasn't convinced that he had indeed stabbed himself. Not sure if Brendan was still a dick in the prison or if most of his abuse was also in Noah's head.

[crashdown]

I'm kind of bitter about this episode. One of my very favorite tropes is when enemies have to work together for a common goal and in the process develop some grudging respect for one another, and another of my very favorite tropes is enemies on a road trip together. So I was having a blast, and this very dark turn ruined everything. Fuck Showtime.

[DiabLOL]

Ugh. Remembering how they never bothered to explain any of that shit really makes me doubt they'll do an adequate job of finishing up the Alison story as well. 

As far as I recall we never did find out who stabbed, rear ended, terrorized in prison and then stalked Noah on the outside (if anyone at all) and I'll say it again they were doing a storyline of Noah potentially hallucinating but for real developing a troublesome opiate addiction that maybor may not have caused wild hallucinations. What the hell.

[AAEBoiler]

On 8/5/2018 at 5:57 PM, sadie said:

The three guys on the road trip was so good. Somehow throwing Anton in the mix made it better than if it was just Noah and Cole.

No kidding, Anton is the most likable character on this show right now.

[AngelaHunter]

On 8/11/2018 at 8:35 PM, DiabLOL said:

As far as I recall we never did find out who stabbed, rear ended, terrorized in prison and then stalked Noah on the outside (if anyone at all) and I'll say it again they were doing a storyline of Noah potentially hallucinating but for real developing a troublesome opiate addiction that maybor may not have caused wild hallucinations. What the hell.

I came to the conclusion that Brendan Fraser's prison guard (and I thought he was wonderful in the role) was real, but that the abuse heaped on Noah may have been imaginary and I do think the following in the car thing was not real. I kind of think Noah's shoulder pain may be psychosomatic, brought about by stress. Hard to say for sure.

[DiabLOL]

5 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I came to the conclusion that Brendan Fraser's prison guard (and I thought he was wonderful in the role) was real, but that the abuse heaped on Noah may have been imaginary and I do think the following in the car thing was not real. I kind of think Noah's shoulder pain may be psychosomatic, brought about by stress. Hard to say for sure.

I kinda had to go with similar but it's really unsatisfying!

[AngelaHunter]

On 9/14/2018 at 12:45 AM, DiabLOL said:

I kinda had to go with similar but it's really unsatisfying!

On thinking about the guard's affect, reaction and demeanor when Noah went to his house, I am concluding that none of the abuse was real and that Noah was hallucinating. Even when he went outside alone to confront Noah, there was not one hint of the brutal, creepy and sadistic persona Noah thought he saw in prison.

[DiabLOL]

3 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

On thinking about the guard's affect, reaction and demeanor when Noah went to his house, I am concluding that none of the abuse was real and that Noah was hallucinating. Even when he went outside alone to confront Noah, there was not one hint of the brutal, creepy and sadistic persona Noah thought he saw in prison.

And then next season he's fine again like nothing happened!

[AngelaHunter]

19 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

And then next season he's fine again like nothing happened!

Yes, the transitions are sometimes disorienting, in this case Noah jumping from from what seemed some sort of severe psychosis/mental breakdown to "Oh, he's fine now".  The huge time gaps that occur between some episodes (not even seasons) are jarring to me as well, sometimes making me wonder if I had missed an ep.

Edited September 17, 2018 by AngelaHunter

[betha]

How is it that Cole is ok hanging out with the guy who killed his brother?

[millennium]

i can't believe they killed Alison.

apparently there was bad blood between Ruth Wilson and the showrunners.   Reminds me of Kalinda Sharma/Archie Panjabi and The Good Wife.

this sucks.

i was enjoying the episode until.

i even thought, "I could totally watch a series about Cole, Noah and Anton driving across the United States."

i think Luisa killed her, but we'll see.

[Kid]

On 8/5/2018 at 7:52 AM, Lozu68 said:

Oh man...just watched in the app. Josh and Dominic’s acting...took my breath away. I hope whatever the writers have in store for the resolution of this story does justice to the actors. 

Actually, this is the first episode that I have enjoyed with Noah in it for a long time.  These actors were great together and the interaction of the Noah and Cole was extremely realistic.  I also loved Noah’s young protégé.  Sized up the situation quite well, I thought, and showed her maturity beyond his years later in the episode.

[Aqua]

On 8/6/2018 at 6:23 PM, Rockfish said:

I don’t blame Ruth Wilson for wanting to move on to other projects; if viewers found Alison’s character arc (or lack of one) frustrating, I can imagine how frustrating that would be for a talented actor. 

Do actors make decisions about staying with series based on learning about viewer feedback? I didn't know that; I always assumed they were removed from TV forum websites, etc.,  but that's interesting!

[Rockfish]

On 5/23/2021 at 1:45 AM, Aqua said:

Do actors make decisions about staying with series based on learning about viewer feedback? I didn't know that; I always assumed they were removed from TV forum websites, etc.,  but that's interesting!

My point was Wilson probably was probably also annoyed or frustrated with her story arc, but I didn’t express myself well.