S02.E06: To Hound Nature in Her Wanderings

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Sarah joins forces with an unlikely and untrustworthy ally, following a trail of clues that she hopes will lead her to the origins of the clone experiment. Cosima and Delphine make a discovery that could prove to be the key to treating her illness. Alison finds herself in unsavory company at rehab.

 

[millahnna]

Of all the ways I thought they might bring back Vik for a one off, that one never occurred to me.  I predict hilarity.

[Valny]

Looks like a great ep as usually.   Man, I love the snippy way Maria Kennedy Doyle says, "hello Paul." in the above preview.    When characters say hello in that manner, I always think of Seinfeld's "Hello, Newman."

[Pyralis]

I love that early 20th century Eugenics, dubious military experimentation, several stripes of religious fervour and at least one couple's overwhelming desire for a child are all bound up in the history of Project Leda.

 

And Art & Felix may be my new ship - which is nice since I haven't really had one on the show yet.

[Ceeg]

What the fuck. I was all on the 'okay so Leekie isn't evil he's just like the clones' grandpa' train after last week's ep, and now I DON'T KNOW WHO TO TRUST ANYMORE.

[beeble]

Was Rachel a clone or was she the original?

 

What happened to Helena's "boyfriend"?  Was he arrested or did  he run?  Helena's bar fight was pretty awesome.

 

Paul - just tell everyone what you did. You'll do time, and then write a book. Just get out from under the thumb of DYAD because you are clearly so "meh" about being their bitch.

 

I sort of missed Rachel and her crazy heels and haircut.  But at least we got some Alison.  

[NorthstarATL]

Crazy Road Trip Helena is SO much FUN! I may never hear The Archies the same way again! Poor Alison is getting spied on again! But at least Sarah and Cosima discussed getting the band back together this week. Loved Felix and Art, Paul and Creepy Farm Guy, and Pail and Mrs. S! The pacing was terrific, and now I want next week's!

[mrsdalgliesh]

Thank goodness Alison gave me some recap as she talked to Victor, because though I recognized him, I couldn't remember who he was.   The previews look hilarious.

 

Strange, with all the creepiness and blood spattering and mechanical rape and lip sewing going on, the person I hate most of all is Angela.  I think it's because she has no stake in any of this -- she's just nosy.  Also, she has evil eyebrows.  Can we have her meet up with Helena, please? 

 

Just when I'm thanking the show for always giving us little answer and clue breadcrumbs in every episode, I have to hear "Afghanistan" again.  GAH.  Just tell us already before we absolutely don't care anymore.  Oh, wait....

 

Still, everything else is coming together nicely.  I thought the scene with Gracie and Helena was really well done.  Gracie was probably the only who could have convinced Helena to return.  I'm just sorry it's not going to be as nice as Helena hopes.  At least she had a little fun (thanks, Mark!).

 

QUESTION: So Scott ID's the stem cells used for Cosima's cure as belonging to a female relative of hers (and the other clones?)?  So...we're supposed to conclude that there's another clone, or another daughter, or what?  Why does Delphine want it to be a secret?

Edited May 25, 2014 by mrsdalgliesh

[Seelouis]

Why is this show only on once a week? I want the next episode NOW! What did Delphine say not to tell cosima? Something about the original? And Leekie stole Rachel from the Duncans? And Mrs. S. knew about the clones all along? And Art and Felix are teaming up. Can't wait for next week!

[Ceeg]

 

QUESTION: So Scott ID's the stem cells used for Cosima's cure as belonging to a female relative of hers (and the other clones?)?  So...we're supposed to conclude that there's another clone, or another daughter, or what?  Why does Delphine want it to be a secret?

I think he said that they come from a relative of the original. Whoever they cloned. Either the original's niece or daughter. I'm not sure why Delphine wants to keep that a secret, but my guess is that Cosima wouldn't want an innocent kid to get caught up in all this. Either that or Delphine wants to research everything first because I think Delphine's #1 priority is getting Cosima well, no matter the cost.

[Impromptu]

They said the cell lines came from baby teeth (yes?) - I figured that someone had somehow gotten hold of Kira's baby teeth.

[Valny]

Wow, information overload. I need a recap because I didn't digest it all. Is it me or does the hour go by really fast with this show?I look at the clock and it's 9:45

Was anyone surprised that Sarah didn't go help sestra Helena after seeing her dragged off by the cops? What the hell?!

There was a reason behind that yes?

I'm so glad Felix had pants on while doing one of his paintings. Sure, he has a great butt, but I had my fill of Felix butt this season.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Valny

[possibilities]

Kira is Cosima's niece, right? Could Mrs S have been feeding samples from Kira to Dyad? Or is there another niece?

 

I think Sarah did ask Art to check on Helena, make sure she's okay, and see if he could get her released. I thought it was cold of her not to go see her after the arrest, but Sarah has always been cold, and it wasn't her fault that Helena didn't want to wait in the car and wound up getting into a brawl. I can see Sarah's reasoning that she couldn't afford the delay or the publicity right that moment.

Edited May 25, 2014 by possibilities

[thuganomics85]

Vic!  I'm glad he's back into the fold, since I enjoy the actor and find the character very entertaining.  Already loving his stuff with Alison. But, I had a feeling something was up, so him being a snitch for Angela didn't surprise me, but still sadden me.  Curious to see where they are going with this, and if Vic is going to have any conflicted feelings or not.  But just add this to the list of one character secretly working for someone else.  At this point, I think we'll get every potential pair by the third season.

 

Sarah and Helena Roadtrip!  Yeah, that was about as entertaining as I expected.  Finally saw signs that, somewhere in there, Helena can be a non-psycho person.  But, it's already ended, now that she got arrested for a drunken brawl, Sarah left her (but, it did sound like she called Art about helping her, so she did try something), and Helena is going back with the Proetheans to reunite with "her babies."

 

Art and Felix were hilarious together.  I hope we get more of that.

 

Continue to love Mrs. S, and how she put up with none of Sarah's crap, and how she just straight up went to Paul, once she saw that he found them.  Mrs. S is badass without even shooting a gun.

 

So... I guess I was wrong about Leekie.  He really is a bad dude, huh?  Makes me nervous for both Cosima and Delphine, since they are so close to him.  I'm curious to see what his deal is.  On the other hand, I just want them to go ahead and tell us about Paul and Afghanistan.  Quit being cagey!

[millahnna]

I adored Helena's meet cute with the bar dude (who was seriously adorable).  Tatiana's crazy chemistry with each clone's various romantic interests kind of fascinates me.

[beedub]

So glad to have Helena back. Her singing "Sugar Sugar" was maybe the funniest thing I've seen in a long while, followed closely by the whole bar scene. Loved how her new boyfriend believed all her fake backstory.

 

My first reaction to Sarah leaving Helena at the station was, "What the Hell?", but then I thought that might just be her usual avoidance of police. But it did also seem like Helena gave her a slow-mo look, warning her away, as she was being put in the car, though why I'm not sure. Then Helena seemed a little too willing to go along with the Prolethean Prom King and Queen. Maybe the biological imperative is just that strong? All the reason Helena needs to have babies: "I am very good with children".

 

One other thing that puzzles me is why Alison went so quickly from running away from Vic to shooting hoops with him. Not sure what that's about.

Edited May 25, 2014 by beedub

[Valny]

the person I hate most of all is Angela.  I think it's because she has no stake in any of this -- she's just nosy.  Also, she has evil eyebrows. 

 

  I have to say I was surprised to see Angie again. When Vic got in the car with her I thought for a moment that he was there solely to spy and befriend Alison for Angie which he is doing, but he is really doing it just to get his charges dropped and didn't seem to want to be any part of the whole gathering info deal. And he also seems to want to get clean and become a better person. Unless that's a total fakeout too.

The actor actually looks good cleaned up!

 

I hated that Helena went back to the crazy farm. I was like, noooo, don't go back there, Helena,it won't end well.

 

Scott working for DYAD?  I fear for his life.  I mentioned it in the last episode thread, that if he somehow works for them, he's taking a dip in the Death Pool.

 

Oh and also, when Mrs.S got in the car with Paul("hello Paul", man I loved the way she said that)  I thought at some point she was going to throw the hot tea in his pretty face if things turned ugly.

 

Edited May 25, 2014 by Valny

[ShaggyDog]

One possible source of the stems cells is Cosima herself. If she has been monitored since birth, Leekie may have gotten hold not only of baby teeth, but even cells from the umbilical cord, and saved them. If the story is that adult cells were used, maybe the show is going in the horror direction of someone 'locked in the attic, i.e, Susan was not killed in the fire, but captured by Leekie. I'm not a geneticist, so I'm not sure about this idea of recovering the original genome,  but maybe if Dyad has the mother, they will have a maternal  chromosome set. Without Dr. Duncan, they don't have the paternal set, and that is why they are after him as well.

 

ETA: Because an X Chromsome is not a whole set.

Edited May 25, 2014 by ShaggyDog

[yellowfred]

I thought it was pretty clear that the stem cells had to have come from Kira.  She's at the right age to be losing baby teeth and she's the only one who is genetically related to the clones.  The fact that Delphine wants that kept from Cosima isn't really surprising, since she probably figures that her knowing would undoubtedly mess up the whole potential cure.  It kind of reinforces the idea from the season premiere that Delphine cares a lot more about keeping Cosima alive than she does about respecting her choices.  

 

I think Sarah left Helena there at least partly because she was worried that those cops might actually be competent.  When someone who has no forms of identification and officially doesn't exist (not to mention, whose prints/face match a number of persons of interest in a recent homicide investigation), most police stations won't let them out just because you say that she's your sister.  Obviously, the fact that no one pressed charges against her helped, but Sarah couldn't have known that at the time.

[ShaggyDog]

The baby teeth thing is a puzzler. I love the complicated timelines/plots of this show, but it makes it hard for me to keep track of it all. I was thinking that DYAD didn't know about Sarah or Kira, until very recently, and even when Delphine told them about Sarah, she held back about Kira. It seems like Mrs. S. hates DYAD, so I was trying to think of how would they ever know about Kira in time to get and steal a tooth ? All I could think of is maybe when Mrs. S. house was tossed, they found a keepsake tooth in a jar, or something ? Or maybe they got hold of some medical waste from Kira's hospital stay ?

[Agent Dark]

The baby teeth thing is a puzzler. I love the complicated timelines/plots of this show, but it makes it hard for me to keep track of it all. I was thinking that DYAD didn't know about Sarah or Kira, until very recently, and even when Delphine told them about Sarah, she held back about Kira. It seems like Mrs. S. hates DYAD, so I was trying to think of how would they ever know about Kira in time to get and steal a tooth ? All I could think of is maybe when Mrs. S. house was tossed, they found a keepsake tooth in a jar, or something ? Or maybe they got hold of some medical waste from Kira's hospital stay ?

Mrs S. is clearly more connected to the whole thing than she's letting on - she knows Paul's backstory somehow.  Judging by the promo for the next episode, I'd say there's a good chance that perhaps Mrs S. has been playing both sides.  Maybe she gave DYAD/Leekie some genetic material in order to keep them off Sarah?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Awww, I loved Helena singing in the car! I would bet Sarah lets Kira and Felix sing in the car, so she needs to take the stick out of her ass when it comes to Helena and let her sing without being such a grump. At least when Helena is singing, she seems happy (and therefore less likely to stab or harm someone out of the blue). Heh, if Sarah would have thought of Helena as a kid on her first road trip, she might have been a lot more tolerant of the singing. I mean, you wouldn't tell a kid to shut up and quit singing in the car!

 

I wish Sarah could see that Helena is seeking a family as much as Sarah was when she found Amelia. Helena only ate half the can of beans or whatever so that she could share with Sarah and she was making her shadow puppet doggie kiss Sarah. It seems like the least Sarah could do in exchange is let her sing in the car without complaining. I think that Helena would love to leave all the crazy shit behind and just be happy. She knew (and stated) that Sarah would have left her behind if she had told her where the Swan Man was. She clearly just wanted to spend time with Sarah and not be left out.

 

Part of me cracked up when I saw that Helena had seven drinks lined up on the bar, but part of me was sad that when left alone, she heads straight for the first bar and starts drinking. As much as the Prolethians creep me out, I believed Mark when he said that he was letting Helena enjoy herself before he took her back to the Big Love Farm. No matter how much he believes in whatever weird stuff they're doing, I think he truly just wanted Helena to have a little fun before taking her back to the freak show. And Helena was AWESOME beating the crap out of all those jerks at the bar.

 

But I felt so sad for her when Gracie said that Sarah wasn't coming to get her. Ugh, and I felt horrified when Helena casually told Gracie that she'd had her lips sewn together once and it would heal fine. Helena has had such a screwed up life. It made me doubly glad that Mark let her drink and flirt with that guy. I loved that the back story she told the guy at the bar was a combination of the other clones' lives.

 

Paul is totally creeping me out. Mrs. S has his number - he is totally Team Paul. She was so hilarious when she calmly took tea, cookies, and a gun to go chat with Paul in his car. I will give her this: nothing gets past her (well, except Brenda & co. selling her out a few weeks ago). She knew it was Paul as soon as she looked out the window.

 

I was yelling at Sarah to take pictures of the records she was looking at with her camera phone. Nothing wrong with having that stuff documented!

 

Every time Felix gets teamed up with someone, I love it. He's great with Alison, he's interesting with Helena, and so far he's good with Art too! Loved Felix helping Art construct the Wall of Crazy (TM Carrie Mathison) in his crazy pants.

 

Damn it, Vic is STILL a dick! But I did love when he told Angie that spying on Alison was interfering with his recovery. Ha! Also loved when Vic said, "Namaste," and bowed and Alison's reaction was, "Don't do that."

 

I wonder who those stem cells belong to. They can't be from Kira since Dyad hasn't been able to get their hands no her yet (or is Cal in league with them and he somehow scraped some of her stem cells while she was asleep and sent them to Leekie? Naaaaah). The clones have biological parents so maybe the stem cells came from one of the parents' sisters? To me, that seems more likely than another clone who had a kid, but at this point I feel like Leekie could reveal anything (he has 100 clones lined up in hospital beds somewhere inside the Dyad Institute, for example) and I would believe it because I wouldn't put anything past him. My question is whether Delphine already knew who the stem cells came from. Did she freak out because this was brand new information or because she doesn't want Cosima to find out?

 

I did not miss Rachel at all this week!

Edited May 25, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[shapeshifter]

Road trips are so much fun. I hope Art and Felix can go on one too.

Poor Alison is getting spied on again!

Vic better stay away from the garbage disposal, heh--or at least not count on Allison to save his monitoring butt.

 

Strange, with all the creepiness and blood spattering and mechanical rape and lip sewing going on, the person I hate most of all is Angela.... Can we have her meet up with Helena, please?...

Yes, please. Helena can tie her to a pole for a leetle while in a nice dungeon. 

 

 

Gracie was probably the only who could have convinced Helena to return.  I'm just sorry it's not going to be as nice as Helena hopes.  At least she had a little fun (thanks, Mark!).

Mark gets none of my thanks. Thanks, Jesse, I guess. Is he just a nice guy, or does he have a horse in this race too? Jessie is played by H!TYG (Hey, it's that yummy guy) Patrick J. Adams, from Suits, among other pursuits.

Anyway, to paraphrase Dirty Dancing: Nobody puts Helena in a corner! Well, actually, that would be Sarah. But nobody keeps Helena in a corner. I guess she lets them implant her embryos and then gets the hell out of Dodge/Cultville/Hell. Let me count the ways she might dismember Mark and his family.

I did not miss Rachel at all this week!

I imagine Rachel is still relaxing and smoking a cigarette (with a diamond encrusted holder) after her masturbation session with Paul. Maybe hoping she is pregnant.

[Ceeg]

Mrs. S is such a badass. I loved everything about her this episode, and I loved when Sarah got to her place and she and S were both firing at each other. And while I still don't doubt that at this point, Mrs. S is Team Sarah, I'm still confused about what her role in everything was. Was she part of DYAD before the Neolutionists took over? But also had ties with Carlton who saved kids?

I also loved the conversation between Sarah and Cosima, and their acknowledgment that they've gotta get Alison out of rehab because they're better together. I need a Clone Club reunion.

 

The only part of this episode that I didn't like was Helena going back with the crazy religious people. That strand kind of drags for me, and Helena's storyline didn't really pick up until she was reunited with Sarah. So I'm kind of bummed that she's back by herself with these people.

[theFel]

Vic with Alison, Helena with Tow Truck Guy, and What's His Glasses with Cosima, I thought it would be cute if each clone ended up with a brother sestra. Of course, then we had the Vic reveal and that ended that idea. 

 

It was interesting that Mrs. S referred to Dyad as a hydra. So we have all the multiple heads with their own agendas. Mrs. S must have been Dyad at some point. The Proletheans too (Maggie was and I bet Mr. Helena was Dyad at some point too). Dyad probably created the clones and then split along ideological lines. the scientific view (Leakey and Duncan at first), the humanist (Mrs. S. and Duncan now), and the religious (Proletheans). 

 

On a separate note - does anyone else have problems remembering all the side characters names? If its not repeated at least 5 times an episode I can't seem to remember it. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

I call bullshit on the idea that the Dyad Institute or the Proletheans or Mrs S's people would not bother destroy or steal the evidence in that church. Way too convenient. Or the idea that either Gracey or Mark would dare be around Helena without aiming like five guns at her.

 

I love that Scott is still around and more involved than ever but I hope Cosima would have some scientific breakthrough of her own soon.

 

I am rather confused by Donnie's smugness. Is he really stupid enough to not see when Alison is really pissed at him, rather than merely annoyed by him?

 

What's with the "no ball kicking or soccer playing in the gym" sign? It was in the gym where Alison and Vic played some basketball.  I know I am really nitpicking but if you can't kick the ball you can't play soccer either.

 

So bored by Helena again. They only I would start to tolerate her is if she kills all the stupid religious fundamentalists. If she is not playing them and want to see her "babies" I will roll me eyes so much they might fall off.

 

I loved hearing Sarah say "I can't do it without you" to Cosima but I really want to see them working together, not just talking on the phone through Skype. Or at least to have seen the conversation they had regarding Cosima's illness.

[Happy to be here]

I thought it was pretty clear that the stem cells had to have come from Kira.

 

 

Ahhh but do they?  Helena is back with the Proletheans and back to baby making duties. 

 

Poor Alison is getting spied on again!

 

 

The show wouldn't be Orphan Black unless Alison was getting spied on.

 

I loved the scene with Rachel's father (Dr. Duncan)  I love the idea that yes he and his wife loved his daughter and were going to raise her as a functional child but were stopped by Leekie.  It is Leekie who is once again the bad guy.  I am still trying to figure out Leekie''s play here.  Is he trying to play both sides against the middle so he can have all the marbles?  Is that it?  

[Sarah-phile]

I imagine Rachel is still relaxing and smoking a cigarette (with a diamond encrusted holder) after her masturbation session with Paul.

 

Love that!  That is a great description of what happened.  On a related note, I didn't view that session as consensual at all, but he must have been aroused...

 

I'm new to the forum and so glad I found others who love the show as much as I do!  Something that has been bothering me this season also is about Cal being Kira's father when he and Sarah were together 8 years earlier.  I thought in season 1 they said Kira was 5.  She sure doesn't look 7+ to me.  I also am not convinced Cal is at all innocent.  And I find it bizarre that Sarah left Kira with him after not seeing him for 8 years and spending about 24 hours with him.  Poor Kira.  Also, they kept letting Kira wonder off on her own, knowing that a bunch of loonies are after her.

 

Onto this episode ...

 

I thought the reason Delphine reacted the way she did is because she assumed the relative was Kira (Scott even mentioned the possibility it could be someone's niece).  She may be wrong, but I figured that's why she didn't want Cosima to know.  It could be that Mrs. S. gave Dyad the tooth, or that Cal did.  If it was Mrs. S., it might be because saving Cosima (and later, maybe Sarah and Alison) was more important than not using Kira's stem cells.  If it really was from a baby tooth that Kira lost, it's a far less sinister use of Kira than Rachel and Leekie seem to have in mind.

 

What is up with Afghanistan?  Paul gave an explanation last season -- is there more to it?  Did something related to Dyad happen there?  Mrs. S. said he should join their side or else Afghanistan would have been for nothing.  I don't understand that.  Maybe it wasn't "friendly fire" after all?  Also, what the heck happened in Taiwan?

 

 

I hated that Helena went back to the crazy farm. I was like, noooo, don't go back there, Helena,it won't end well.

Agreed -- but I'm guessing it will end better for Helena than for the prolethians.

[ganesh]

 

I thought it was pretty clear that the stem cells had to have come from Kira.

I think it had to have been her. It strikes me as getting *too* convoluted if they through in someone else. And the specifically said 'baby teeth.'

 

Art is great. He just pops into Felix's loft, sobers him up and says, 'let's solve mysteries together.' 

 

I was very surprised when Sarah knocked on the door and Mrs S opened it. 

 

As a veteran tv watcher, as I'm sure many are, I'm impressed that everything is holding up pretty well. Usually it's pretty obvious that the show is just making it up as they go along, but everything is fitting together, and watching it unfold is fascinating. 

 

I was a little skeptical that the second season would be able to hold up as well as the first. Storywise, it has to expand and get bigger, and that means real, clear worldbuilding. I'm amazed how well this has been done.

 

Which begs the question, why is tv filled with so many shitty shows?

[TravisNelson76]

Road trip!  Now the entire Clone Club needs to get together to recreate Alanis Morissette's Ironic video.  

[Ceeg]

 

I thought in season 1 they said Kira was 5.  She sure doesn't look 7+ to me.

The kid who plays Kira is 8 years old in real life.

 

 

As a veteran tv watcher, as I'm sure many are, I'm impressed that everything is holding up pretty well. Usually it's pretty obvious that the show is just making it up as they go along, but everything is fitting together, and watching it unfold is fascinating.

Yeah I really appreciate that things are getting answered. Now, those answers do bring up more questions, but I've always gotten the feeling that the writers know exactly what they're doing and where they're heading with everything. I'm guessing they have a pretty massive show Bible. 

[ShaggyDog]

No kidding, ganesh -- Helix anyone ? I've been pondering the details (clues) in the show, and I have an idea about the bird and birdwatcher motiffs we have seen. This episode even has Swan Man keeping a bird, and the bird even got its own close-up. J.D. Watson, the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA, got his degree in orinithology. When he went to England to work on the DNA project, he was teased about it. It has been a long time since I read his book, but I remember a joke about his writting a paper called "DNA for birdwatchers".

Edited May 25, 2014 by ShaggyDog

[Loandbehold]

I loved the sestras road trip. Although, I have to admit, I would have told Helena to shut up because her singing really was that bad. On a personal note, Sugar Sugar was the first 45 record I ever bought. At a flea market in Freehold, NJ for $.25 in 1974 or 1975. 

 

I was cracking up for most of the first half hour, then things started getting real. Art and Felix were great, as were Alison and Vic. Helena in the car, the tent, and then the bar. I could imagine her ordering seven different drinks at the same time. I do wonder how she planned to pay for them. Mrs. S just keeps getting more and more interesting. How much does she know and how does she know it? How did she find out about Paul and Afghanistan? When did she find out about DYAD and Project Leda? I need answers, damnit. It was also great how Paul wouldn't drink the tea until Mrs. S did so first. One of the smartest things I've seen him do. I also was confused by what Scott was telling Delphine. Often the science (or should I say the "science") goes over my head. And now Dr. Leekie appears to be the Big Bad. Does that make Rachel more of a dupe? 

[AmyVS]

I wonder about the genetic test coming up as a female relative on the order of a niece or aunt. Since Sarah and Cosima are genetically identical (except for their ID markers), Kira compared to Cosima (or any of the clones) would show as mother/daughter. Can tests like that distinguish between aunt/niece/cousin and mother/daughter? Or just show a family relation?

[ShaggyDog]

Paul told Sarah about Afganistan. Sarah may have told Mrs. S. during their stay with the traitorous Brenda.

 

It is looking more and more that Leekie is the Masterful Prime Minister to Rachels Ice Queen, that he is the real power in the kingdom. It could be that he is testing Neolution by grooming Rachel for a postion of power and control in order to see if and how she can handle it - is she an improved human?

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Jeff's post on the episode!

[Riful]

I thought the baby teeth stem cells might come from a child of the original genome or perhaps a relative of the original. I think that could fit with Scott thinking it could be a niece or even a daugther, and he also said they are not clone cells. Kira should be at least be 50% clone cells because of Sarah right? So that would exclude her as the source. DYAD also seemed completely unaware of Kira's existence until recently.

 

That comment with the original genome being "quite robost", made me think that since the Cold River facility experimented on even babies, then perhaps the original comes from there. I can imagine her being one of their more successful experiments, and maybe they did something that meant she was specially suited for cloning.

So many answers yet so many questions in this episode. I think a rewatch or two is in order to fully catch everything. From what I got, Ethan Duncan was a part of Cold River, then later on got recruited into Project Leda with his wife. Project Leda initially was tied together with the military, but at one point got struck down by an ethical committee. If I remember right, that was after they succeeded? Or at least had cracked some of the problems surrounding cloning? Then in came DYAD, who convinced them to take it all to completion. DYAD became/was infested with Neolutionists and at some point Leekie (probably unsatisfied with how the Duncans were treating Rachel as a real person) stepped in, and shit went down with the Duncans wanting to expose everything. Ethan Duncan then defected after Susan's death, but it also meant Rachel was left with DYAD.

 

There is something fishy with that story though, and that is I don't buy for one second the original genome was lost in a fire that killed Susan Duncan. Also I don't think Leekie would start a fire that would mean they would lose a ton of key research and that genome. When Ethan Duncan said Leekie killed Rachel's mother, I don't think he necesssarily meant she was the original. I can imagine that word choice being based on him considering Susan to be Rachel's mom without it being biologically true. Also the whole not thinking Leekie would destroy the original source.

 

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if the original turns out to be the head of the Proletheans, especially if she was a part of the Cold River experiments. I can easily imagine how that would turn one away from science view of humanity and towards a more religious. But then again, I can also imagine the original still being alive and on top of the Neolutionist food chain.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Riful

[Laura527]

Count me in with those who loved the "sestras" road trip.  Season 1 Helena creeped me out, but Season 2 Helena has really grown on me.  That bar fight was awesome.  And Alison in rehab is comedy gold.

 

I continue to be amazed at Tatiana's performance(s).  She is a truly gifted actor.

[Sarah-phile]

 

When Ethan Duncan said Leekie killed Rachel's mother, I don't think he necesssarily meant she was the original.

I think either Sarah is the original (she was born before Rachel) or it's some other as-yet-unmet character who is older.  If Sarah is the original, it could be that they created an embryo that was implanted into Amelia -- and which then divided to create twins (Sarah and Helena) -- and then cloned that embryo and implanted the clones into multiple surrogate mothers.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Sarah-phile

[Grammaeryn]

The baby teeth thing is a puzzler. I love the complicated timelines/plots of this show, but it makes it hard for me to keep track of it all. I was thinking that DYAD didn't know about Sarah or Kira, until very recently, and even when Delphine told them about Sarah, she held back about Kira. It seems like Mrs. S. hates DYAD, so I was trying to think of how would they ever know about Kira in time to get and steal a tooth ? All I could think of is maybe when Mrs. S. house was tossed, they found a keepsake tooth in a jar, or something ? Or maybe they got hold of some medical waste from Kira's hospital stay ?

I just thought of this last night - what if they are still cloning? The baby teeth are from the new batch of little girls.  I say this because I am pretty sure Leekie is full of shit about the original genome.

[yellowfred]

I'm not sure I entirely buy that Leekie was the one who burned down that lab.  Everything we've seen from him thus far would indicate that it's not really his style.  Plus, if he just wanted to get rid of the Duncans, I'm fairly certain DYAD would have several more elegant solutions (especially since they'd been essentially off the grid for over a decade at that point).  I could see it being that some other group burned down the lab, Duncan got away somehow, and he assumed that Leekie was behind it, because of their prior disagreements.  Then again, maybe Leekie is just better at playing the long con than I give him credit for.

[ganesh]

 

Yeah I really appreciate that things are getting answered. Now, those answers do bring up more questions, but I've always gotten the feeling that the writers know exactly what they're doing and where they're heading with everything. I'm guessing they have a pretty massive show Bible.

I said something similar to myself last night. On a shittier show with no direction, Sarah meeting Duncan would have been filled with cryptic answers and really nothing of substance. The face that we already know there was a fire and a lot was destroyed, then how they wanted a baby, etc., it's very detailed and focused, so I was like "ok then." 

 

Even with a 'crytpic' character like Mrs S, we're still being *shown* things about her that's letting us know what her background is, what she knows, etc. 

Here's a tip for new tv viewers into genre shows: If there's lot of cryptic dialogue that could mean anything, then don't invest all your time in a show. TPTBs have no idea where they are going and the end result is *always* going to disappointing. Be wary of anyone involved running a show who talks about the 'journey' over 'story'!

[Captanne]

Which begs the question, why is tv filled with so many shitty shows?

 

Because people tune in to shitty shows and buy whatever shit the sponsors are selling.  Stop doing that and the shit will go away.

 

That said, my BFF tunes into shitfests and enjoys the hell out of them.  I cannot for the life of me explain why.  

 

One of the reasons I find Orphan Black so good and thought Lost was utter shit is because OB has a direction which makes sense.  The producers/writers/team on Lost threw shit up against a wall and aired what stuck -- and then had the unmitigated gall to tell the viewers that!  And viewers still tuned in -- in droves.

 

"Treat me like shit and I'll ask for permission to lick it up" was the response by the audience.

 

That blows my mind.

 

I'll stay with intelligent shows like Orphan Black, thank you very much.

[Enigma X]

 

Which begs the question, why is tv filled with so many shitty shows?

Eh! One viewers "piece of shit" show is another's "this is the shit" show. It takes all kinds.

[Wilson Cat]

The producers/writers/team on Lost threw shit up against a wall and aired what stuck -- and then had the unmitigated gall to tell the viewers that!  And viewers still tuned in -- in droves.

 

Oh boy does this quote ever remind me of a once-promising turned into magnificent train wreck of a show called SMASH.  "Introducing Katharine McPHEE!!!", who, oops, they forgot to mention has the charisma of a dish rag.  Sorry dish rags.  I couldn't come up with anything duller.

 

I thought this episode of OB was excellent.  Does anyone doubt for an eye blink that Helena will end up way better than the Prolethians?

Edited May 25, 2014 by Wilson Cat

[CleoCaesar]

Ah, so we’re back to “Aldous Leekie is evil”. Aren't we??

 

Helena cracked me up the whole episode, from “I’m very good with children” to her bar-fighting to her awful, awful singing.

 

I like Scott’s off-the-charts dorkiness, but this show has made me so paranoid that I wonder if he’s up to no good too.

 

This show offers up so many great characters. I am craving a scene where all of the good guys team up and unleash hell. That would be Sarah, Alison, Cosima, Helena, Mrs. S., Delphine, Felix, Cal, Art, and Scott.

 

This show is so good it makes my head hurt.

[Ceeg]

I think either Sarah is the original (she was born before Rachel) or it's some other as-yet-unmet character who is older.  If Sarah is the original, it could be that they created an embryo that was implanted into Amelia -- and which then divided to create twins (Sarah and Helena) -- and then cloned that embryo and implanted the clones into multiple surrogate mothers.

Cosima and a couple of the dead clones were born before Sarah. And I think Rachel was born only a couple of days after Sarah. So I don't think it's physically possible for Sarah to be the original.

 

I like Scott’s off-the-charts dorkiness, but this show has made me so paranoid that I wonder if he’s up to no good too.

And I'm scared for his life! And Delphine's too. I think Leekie being Eveeel makes me worry about the safety of anyone that works closely with him.

Also, if Leekie is this Big Bad Figure who seems to be in charge (at least in charge of the Neolutionist part of DYAD), I don't understand how Rachel thinks she outranks him. And obviously there must be people higher up than he is that Rachel feels she answers to. So I am a little confused about Dr. Duncan saying that he's hiding from Leekie, specifically.

[Sarah-phile]

Cosima and a couple of the dead clones were born before Sarah. And I think Rachel was born only a couple of days after Sarah. So I don't think it's physically possible for Sarah to be the original.

Yeah, I realized that after I posted it.  BUT Sarah could be the original embryo, if they cloned an embryo and not a person (no offense to anyone who believes an embryo is a person).  Probably makes more sense for it to have been an actual person though, either a grown woman (who hasn't shown up yet) or someone's daughter.  I was thinking it would make sense if Sarah and Helena were (both) the original, because that would explain why Tomas told Helena that.  Or Tomas could have just been lying to turn Helena into a clone killer.  But it's another explanation.

 

Maybe Scott was Cosima's monitor before Delphine.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Sarah-phile

[Bama]

All we have on the "Leekie is really evil" front is Duncan's word, correct?

 

I'm not sure Duncan is all that reliable a source.  He seemed a little "off" and he could be assuming Leekie was behind it because he ended up with Rachel.

 

It's very possible that the Prolethians killed Susana and burned down the lab and Leekie thought Duncan was dead too, so he took Rachel in because they thought both her parents were dead.

 

I'm not writing off either scenario or taking one as truth just because one character says so.

[possibilities]

I thought Duncan said that Leekie took Rachel away from him and his wife, and was responsible for killing Susan (the wife/mom). Leekie thinks Duncan is dead. So I suppose Duncan is hiding from Leekie so Leekie won't kill him. The reason Leekie wanted him and his wife killed is that they were going to expose the whole illegal cloning project.

 

Of course, you'd think that if that was the plan, then he'd do it already-- expose them! But maybe he feels it would do more harm to the clones to be exposed? It's just unclear to me why Duncan (or someone) hasn't leaked all those church basement documents to the media, or someone who would appreciate the whistleblowing.

 

The only thing I can think of is that he was protecting the clones themselves from the shock of discoving they were an illegal science project. But now that so many of them are self-aware, that seems like exposing the conspiracy is something they could do themselves.