S06.E13: Be Free

[Chaos Theory]

It’s funny I feel about Taystee the way a lot  of people feel about Piper.  Except Piper gets called on her Narcissism every time she opens her mouth or wants something.  Taystee started a riot and we are supposed to feel bad that their are unintended consequences?   I don’t think Taystee works at all as an innocent victim of an unfair justice system. 

[preeya]

36 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

It’s funny I feel about Taystee the way a lot  of people feel about Piper.  Except Piper gets called on her Narcissism every time she opens her mouth or wants something.  Taystee started a riot and we are supposed to feel bad that their are unintended consequences?   I don’t think Taystee works at all as an innocent victim of an unfair justice system. 

2

Starting a riot is not in the same timezone as being convicted of 2nd-degree murder, of which she was innocent.

Edited July 31, 2018 by preeya

[CookieChica]

Badison was AWFUL. I've disliked the antagonists before but never have they had zero redeeming qualities. I mean, Vee was a mostly selfish, terrible person but she had flashes of caring about people where you at least got the impression that she understood how normal humans are supposed to act and tried to fit in but was just too manipulative to make it work. She had some complexity that made her interesting and fun to hate  

Pennsatucky was season 1 antagonist and she was actually funny, which was a plus. She also had an interesting backstory even just in season 1 where you felt bad that the orderly made such a mean comment (even though they didn't deserve to die for it). Piper was never super likable so sometimes you even enjoyed Pennsatucky's comments to her  

Badison - nothing. Her backstory is that she's a whiny baby that breaks and throws things and unintentionally set the wrong girl on fire. You couldn't love to hate her, you could barely hate her because you were too busy cringing when she showed up on screen. 

And this is the first time I cried at the finale. Diablo and those flowers... I agree that it was the twist we should all have seen coming but I didn't. 

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, CookieChica said:

unintentionally set the wrong girl on fire.

I got the impression she deliberately set that girl on fire to impress those bullies. That makes her even more awful. She pretended to be nice to her to get her to walk in front of that fire so she was able to “ get a roach”. She’s just an awful, awful human being. 

[BosomBuddy]

3 minutes ago, CookieChica said:

Badison was AWFUL. I've disliked the antagonists before but never have they had zero redeeming qualities. I mean, Vee was a mostly selfish, terrible person but she had flashes of caring about people where you at least got the impression that she understood how normal humans are supposed to act and tried to fit in but was just too manipulative to make it work. She had some complexity that made her interesting and fun to hate  

Pennsatucky was season 1 antagonist and she was actually funny, which was a plus. She also had an interesting backstory even just in season 1 where you felt bad that the orderly made such a mean comment (even though they didn't deserve to die for it). Piper was never super likable so sometimes you even enjoyed Pennsatucky's comments to her  

Badison - nothing. Her backstory is that she's a whiny baby that breaks and throws things and unintentionally set the wrong girl on fire. You couldn't love to hate her, you could barely hate her because you were too busy cringing when she showed up on screen.

Agree. Vee was evil, but she was also smart. She had animteresting backstory and her betrayal of others was devastating. 

[CookieChica]

38 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I got the impression she deliberately set that girl on fire to impress those bullies. That makes her even more awful. She pretended to be nice to her to get her to walk in front of that fire so she was able to “ get a roach”. She’s just an awful, awful human being. 

Ah, if that's what she said than I agree! The roach part was obscured for me by that charming accent. 

[preeya]

1 hour ago, CookieChica said:

Ah, if that's what she said than I agree! The roach part was obscured for me by that charming accent. 

1

That would be CHAHming accent.

[Ray Adverb]

It seems incredibly odd that Carol and Barbara would be in the same prison after their documented difficulty coexisting and their adoption of status as cell block leader.  Prison officials don't usually like to let the inmates get comfortable or think that they have authority.

[Andromeda]

On 7/30/2018 at 3:24 AM, Ray Adverb said:

That's the point I was trying to make.  It was a broad enough approximation that the vast majority of people would buy it since most people don't really get into linguistic nuances.  Actors from Australia, New Zealand, and the U.K. frequently go through vocal training to hide their native accents.  They instead adopt a specific accent cultivated by the American entertainment industry that isn't supposed to match any particular region.  It is in fact not spoken anywhere in real life, but is more "generic American".

We do speak the accent, here on the West Coast. I'm in Oregon, was from California, lived in Washington. That's the "generic American" accent, because Hollywood. (Not counting ridiculous Valley Girl or Surfer Dude versions). It's the "commercial announcer/news broadcaster" accent, too. Turn on your TV, listen to ads... that's how we speak.

I was touched by the ending -- Piper seeing the women enjoying their game. Her intensity to get the game going was silly, when she should have been laying low and counting the days until release, but I loved seeing Badison stuck there alone, unable to influence the women. Got a huge laugh out of her Trekkie shocker.

I was worried Alex would get killed in a gang showdown, but happily Barb and Carol got what they deserved. The guard reaction was chilling -- I think it was supposed to be funny (thinking of their stupid game rather than checking for life signs), but seriously not.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Andromeda

[DangerousMinds]

Yes, I too speak in the generic American non-accent. Some of us really do.

[sbkasha]

I am an Oregonian, and yes, we really do speak with the American non-accent accent.  I have a friend from Puerto Rico who made me aware of it.  I had no idea.

Most of this season, I liked.  I also wondered why Barb and Carol were still in the same prison.  Prisoners get moved to other facilities all the time.  

Very sad for Taystee, Blanca, and Lorna (because that does not look good).  Not sad to see Piper leave prison.  I feared they'd find a way to keep her inside.  I'm sure we'll still see her in Season 7, but she'll be annoying people in a different way.

[ganesh]

I figured it just cost less to move one of the sisters to a different block than a different prison. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/29/2018 at 1:54 AM, Blue Plastic said:

Would they really just send any undocumented immigrant released prisoners right from prison to ICE without telling them that was going to happen?  They wouldn't tell them not to bother arranging for someone (i.e., Diablo) to pick them up?  I mean I follow the news so I have heard about what ihas been going on *ahem*, not meaning to get too political, but I guess I thought they would tell an undocumented immigrant who is already in prison that they will be detained by ICE upon release?

What I don't get was if Blanca was not legally in the US, why wasn't she deported as soon as she was convicted of her crime?

On 7/31/2018 at 1:14 PM, Ray Adverb said:

Why were Barbara and Carol in federal prison?  Their crime was heinous, but that sort of thing is a matter for the state.  Best I can figure that lake they pushed their sister into was in a national park.  That scene was the most chilling thing in the whole series.

They also could have driven across state lines to kill their sister, that wouod have made it federal kidnapping/murder.

[Ray Adverb]

9 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

What I don't get was if Blanca was not legally in the US, why wasn't she deported as soon as she was convicted of her crime?

She committed a crime in the United States, so she was held accountable to the United States.  The American based government has a responsibility to mete out justice and it can't do that if someone is outside of the United States.  I know someone in real life who is an illegal immigrant from Bulgaria (she came to the country legally but overstayed her visa).  She was convicted of vehicular manslaughter in 2014 and is currently serving time in a state prison.  Most likely she'll be deported back to Bulgaria when she is released.

[rippleintime17]

I feel awful for Blanca. I don't remember exactly what she did, just that she worked with the elderly. Either way, I really came to like her over the course of her developing into an actual character (from the woman everyone thought was crazy and speaking to the devil because they didn't realize she had a cell phone in her bathroom stall where she called her boyfriend Diablo).

I don't like Badison either, but it will be interesting to see if her story changes next season now that Carol and Barb are out of the picture and the C and D block ladies have been a bit more enlightened on how dumb it is that they're fighting. Badison's powers might have been significantly decreased, who knows.

Yeesh, imagine spending 30+ years in prison with your sister, for killing your sister, only to end up... killed by your sister. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

On 7/31/2018 at 10:53 AM, Sweet Summer Child said:

My guess is that Daya is a blank slate and totally impressionable, so manipulative people like Daddy are drawn to her. 

That is an interesting explanation.  It is always odd to me how people meet her and immediately tell her how beautiful she is.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I know.  But I just don't see it.  Alieda is gorgeous.  Daya not so much.  She's not unattractive; I think she looked better this season than in prior ones. I just don't see her as the prison equivalent of Helen of Troy.  Daya seems to have launched a thousand libidos! 

[WhosThatGirl]

The actress who plays Daya is quite pretty but the character Daya is.. so.. nothing that I’m always confused with people falling all over her. I don’t get it either. I think the writers just don’t know what to do with her at this point? She’s.. just kind of there for the most part.

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, rippleintime17 said:

Badison's powers might have been significantly decreased, who knows.

I'm hoping TPTB remember that no one listened to Madison at the kickball game. Without Carol there to prop her up, who wasn't much of a fan anyway, there's no believable way she's the big bad next season. However, I could buy Madison trying to scheme Vause as cell block leader and glamming on. 

5 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I think the writers just don’t know what to do with her at this point?

I think they do what to do with her because she was the one who ended up with the gun pointed at Humps 2 seasons ago. I think that was a deliberate narrative choice. Taking it in as a whole, she's a story of failing upward, but also classically tragic. And I'm not a huge fan by any stretch. 

Look at the larger picture - her mother is terrible, so she ended up in jail. Minimum security, so it's not like she was a total criminal. She has an affair with a guard, and her mother tries to use that for blackmail. She ends up with the gun in her hand that one of the guards let the other guard bring in even though it's illegal. Now she's got life in prison because the system needs a fall person. She's constantly beaten and gets hooked on drugs for the pain. 

Daddy takes a fancy to her and she figures 'going gay' is an easier road since she gets protection and can get high all the time. 

[rogvortex58]

I don’t think Piper is gone from the show. She’s probably gonna work on writing her memoirs like real Piper ended up doing. And visit to see Alex.

Can’t say I’m gonna miss the Denning sisters. Decades later and still fighting over that stupid “glass of ice” story? They were both crazy.

It will be interesting to see how things change with them no longer around though. Bet Badison won’t be feeling so high and mighty. That angry woman child needs to be taken down a peg or two.

Edited August 6, 2018 by rogvortex58

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, rogvortex58 said:

Bet Badison won’t be feeling so high and mighty.

Oh I think she will think she's in charge and act like it. 

[PreBabylonia]

On 2018-07-27 at 9:54 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Although better then the previous two seasons Season 6 of OITNB still suffers because it makes all the guards either evil or stupid while most of the inmates either violent or victims. There is very little middle ground or nuance.  The end to Taystee's trial was predictable.  It was so predictable that I could't even feel that bad for her.     

I have enjoyed all of the seasons but this was the one that actually made me tear up, over Taystee's address to the jury. Probably the only ending possible but I really really wanted her to be found not guilty. 

As for the guards, I just don't think that is a great occupation. It pays well for minimum training (but not so well that most of them will moonlight with legal or illegal jobs). I think it probably does attract a large proportion of violent bullies that can get away with tormenting humans, and is a great job for misogynists. The kind conscientious guard tends to get disillusioned quickly and either embraces the power or leaves the job. Same with the inmates. I usually feel sympathetic for most of the women, the flashbacks really get to me, but we always see impulse control is at the heart of their bad decisions. Some of us might be tempted to do something like steal or badly hurt another person but are held back by fears we'll get caught or the belief that to do so would be wrong. These women don't have those barriers and it is fascinating to watch people that are completely unlike myself. 

On 2018-07-28 at 8:24 PM, leighdear said:

I'm just going to assume that Piper is off to write her memoirs, safely back home with her parents.  She'll visit Alex a few times, then the relationship will just ghost itself.  The rest of the characters don't really interest me.  The ending with Lorna's blood-soaked crotch, and the oh-so-convenient mention that she's 7 months along is the "cliffhanger" for next season, I presume.  

I won't be back next season.  I had to push myself to finish this one.  The woman playing Madison can't act her way out of a paper bag, so trying to cram her in as a big bad with Carol & Barb and their minions is just too much I don't give a crap about.  

They should have called time of death at the end of last season.  Now they're just flogging the corpse.   

I can't think of any TV shows that either bored or disillusioned me enough to stop watching, other than Grey's Anatomy and The Walking Dead. GA was entertaining but I found less and less interest in staying invested when Isiah Washington left. followed by two other originals a few years later. I am hate watching TWD because deep down inside, I expect something to change and it will be restored to its previous glory. Completely unlikely at this point with the loss of Andrew Lincoln but still....I hate to give up on these shows. I have never hated Piper like so many other people do but I still think she is the least interesting character on the show, so I think it can easily live without her recurring presence. I would be fine if she stayed on the show as a guest actor.

On 2018-07-28 at 9:28 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

And also.. I get that real life prisons have these exact issues but there was too much torture actually.. like I couldn’t really deal. It seemed like there was a lot of torture and that seems to be the new thing for this show, doesn’t it? Two seasons ago it was the new guards being violent towards the prisoners and then it was the prisoners doing so to the guards and now we’re 

On 2018-07-29 at 1:54 AM, Blue Plastic said:

Yeah, that was a crappy artistic choice on the show's part.  They must have thought the sound drop made the verdict reveal more dramatic, but it didn't.  I did feel bad for Taystee as I mostly like her, but the convict/not convict was not too much of a surprise from a "suspense" point of view.  Most likely IRL she would be convicted unless Caputo could have somehow exposed the falsified autopsy but he didn't have the wherewithal to do that.

Yeah, I kept wishing for Badison to get killed, but alas.  Looks like they are positioning her to be the main antagonist next season, unfortunately.  I hope Carol and Barb are both really dead.  They were annoying.  Plus Old Carol (the sister with the eyeglasses) reminded me too much of The Freak from Wentworth and I was scared they might want to give her the same treatment (repeat seasons).

It seems like Sofia and Piper should both be gone now.  Not sure if they can keep one or both in the show out the outside like they have managed to do with Alaida.  It seems weird to be without Piper, though, since she is the character we started with.  As much as she annoyed me, I'd like to see her from time to time on the outside just at least to complete her narrative.  But realistically, she would write her memoir and probably forget about Alex.  No way the character as they have portrayed her would be able to wait for at least 4 years.  I kept waiting for Piper to get more time added even at the last moment, either by her own doing or something caused by another inmate so was glad to see her actually walk out.

Would they really just send any undocumented immigrant released prisoners right from prison to ICE without telling them that was going to happen?  They wouldn't tell them not to bother arranging for someone (i.e., Diablo) to pick them up?  I mean I follow the news so I have heard about what ihas been going on *ahem*, not meaning to get too political, but I guess I thought they would tell an undocumented immigrant who is already in prison that they will be detained by ICE upon release?

Why didn't Flaca tell the other inmates about the Fantasy Inmate game?

Glad Pennsatucky left Donuts.

Don't really care too much about Lorna's baby.  It's either not going to make it OR Vinnie will come get it and she will never see it just like the other mother characters never see their children.

I don't know, how can you portray the goings on in a maximum security prison without seeing all the verbal and physical violence? Otherwise it would be the Hogan's Heroes version of prison and I don't think that would fly in 2018. I do prefer to see the fictionalized version as opposed to reality shows that selectively interview and portray aspects of being an inmate. They manage to interject brief comic moments and I find that gives me the room to tolerate the more horrible things that take up much of the show.

I liked the silent verdict reveal, it worked for me. Just like in a car accident, sometimes all you can focus on are the visuals, not the sound. It was almost as if Taystee didn't hear the verdict, she reacted to the visuals of all the people around her.  

I think they threw in the Sofia plot just to give closure to the character. Laverne Cox is in such high demand that I could see the show is pretty low on her list of priorities so I thought it was great to see her briefly again. 

From what I've read, they make ICE pickups from police stations and court appearances, so I don't think it would be unrealistic to have her grabbed right outside the gate. Given that the company now has the immigration contract too, she might be sent to live nearby and stay a regular character. I hope so, she's grown on me.

Flaca doesn't seem all that interested in anything that doesn't involve fashion and beauty tips and romance, so I am not surprised that she doesn't want to create waves with the guards. By 

On 2018-07-29 at 5:25 AM, Ray Adverb said:

I hated Tasha Jeferrson.  I will not call her by that stupid nickname.  Nicknames are a sign of affection.  I hated that her desire for revenge led to her single-handedly ruining reforms for the entire prison.  And now she's treated as some awesome folk hero.  Even though, again, she fucked over the entire prison population.  She is nothing but a selfish little brat and designated victim.  Seeing how she skated by with no consequences for betraying the prisoners, I was actually surprised she was convicted.  I thought they'd continue the theme.

I'd actually forgotten that she had initiated the riot. Still doesn't mean she should have been wrongly convicted for the murder though. I like the fact that she's a very complex character. Really dislike how she acts at times (and feels completely sorry for herself) but can still pull at our heartstrings. 

On 2018-07-29 at 7:49 PM, ExplainItAgain said:

Wow, just finished. I was wondering the whole time what they saw in Blanca's file that interested them, yet she ended up with no additional time. Poor Diablo, my heart sank for him.

The outcome of Taystee's trial was really the only way they could go. Maybe Caputo and Piper can team up next season to get the truth. I can't imagine that they'd drop Piper from the show. I bet Sophia is done though.

I'm glad Maria turned the kickball game around and I'm kind of glad Aleida chose her other kids over Daya. Daya's in for life, but she's right, she has a chance to save her other kids.

They need to have more pat downs in Max - people can sure hide a lot of drugs and shivs on their persons.

 

ETA: So, Alex flushed her application? Also, Luschek - spineless coward.

Yeah Luschek. One of the nicer guys on the show but - still creepy and cowardly at heart.

I didn't realize that was Alex's application - I thought it was some kind of incriminating note about the gang. Considering that she was carrying that booklet around everywhere, I should have paid more attention.

On 2018-07-29 at 8:47 PM, kieyra said:

Attention showrunners:

Hopefully you realize by now that Badison was just bad. She was the worst part of the season. Not in a “look, we made a compelling antagonist” way, but rather in a “I skipped her scenes unless they seemed absolutely crucial to the main characters’ plots, and even then I hated every second.” 

I like that they included a garden variety small minded mean villain that's not very intelligent but has a talent for maliciousness and getting her own way. I am sure the real prisons are full of people like that. However, she isn't interesting enough to carry a plot so I too would like to see her get eliminated, by the second episode at least. Maybe she and Daddy can battle it out and Daddy wins. Speaking of Daddy, I am still confused by her backstory. Sure, cover up the death of one of your girls so you're not caught pimping and to get rewarded handsomely by the killer, but why oh why keep him as a client and especially set him up with your girlfriend? I am wondering if the later reveal will tie in with Daya in some way. At this point I am pretty frustrated with Daya myself and I'm hoping that she doesn't take a main plotline next season. 

[ganesh]

31 minutes ago, PreBabylonia said:

I like that they included a garden variety small minded mean villain that's not very intelligent but has a talent for maliciousness and getting her own way. I am sure the real prisons are full of people like that. However, she isn't interesting enough to carry a plot so I too would like to see her get eliminated, by the second episode at least.

As a background character sure. You said it yourself though, it's ridiculous that she'd be in charge of planning/setting up the gang fight at the kickball game. Except for inadvertently getting Piper released early, everything else she was involved with could have been handled by other characters. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I cried hard for Blanca.  Very hard.  Probably the hardest I have cried since Poussey died. 

[timeywimey]

This season felt so far away from Poussey's death. I was glad when they mentioned her murder.

Barb and Carol took over this show that I used like--all about a story that they stole from someone else! SMH!

Edited August 11, 2018 by timeywimey
Clarity

[islandgal140]

On 8/5/2018 at 5:18 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

That is an interesting explanation.  It is always odd to me how people meet her and immediately tell her how beautiful she is.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I know.  But I just don't see it.  Alieda is gorgeous.  Daya not so much.  She's not unattractive; I think she looked better this season than in prior ones. I just don't see her as the prison equivalent of Helen of Troy.  Daya seems to have launched a thousand libidos! 

Every since Pennsatucky referred to her as "the one that looks like a fish" it is all I have been able to see - The Incredible Mr. Limpet.

[PreBabylonia]

On 2018-08-06 at 5:28 PM, ganesh said:

As a background character sure. You said it yourself though, it's ridiculous that she'd be in charge of planning/setting up the gang fight at the kickball game. Except for inadvertently getting Piper released early, everything else she was involved with could have been handled by other characters. 

I think the point of Madison is to give us a character we haven't seen before, a type of mob enforcer. Carol was using her as an useful idiot. She was good at intimidating the new "cookies" and keeping the old ones in line, but it was pretty obvious that Carol didn't like her nor respect her. If anyone challenged her sufficiently, oh well, she was highly expendable. Apparently she is coming back in season 7, so I think we will probably see a fight between Daddy and Madison to take over Carol's top dog spot. Daddy is easily twice as intelligent as Madison though, so unless some lucky break comes her way, I am expecting Daddy to take her out in an especially vicious way. Then we'll see how that much power corrupts Daddy and the effect it has on Daya. So I still see Madison as a secondary character, but one that may trigger a bigger conflict. I hope so anyway, because I find Madison to be too dumb to make a great uber villain, like Vee was.

Regarding her accent, Amanda Fuller says she was told to come across with a Boston accent and modelled it on Ben Affleck and to a lesser degree, Amy Ryan. The link I attached shows clips from the movie she is promoting as well as her speaking in her normal voice. I thought she also spoke strangely in her movie role and had a few vocal mannerisms that also showed up in Madison. I don't know anyone from Boston so I wouldn't have known if it was typical or not but I do know that I couldn't figure out some of the words she said, no matter if I rewound the show. Seems like a complete voice fail to me. 

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, PreBabylonia said:

Carol was using her as an useful idiot.

I think half of that is right. I can't really say she was intimidating more than annoying though. 

[Corgi-ears]

On 7/30/2018 at 7:49 AM, ExplainItAgain said:

Poor Diablo, my heart sank for him.

I mean, really. It turned out to not be better than anal.

[PreBabylonia]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I think half of that is right. I can't really say she was intimidating more than annoying though. 

Oh, I just meant intimidating since she had a backup posse to follow thru and the authority of Carol behind her. Otherwise, she herself did lack any power. Nobody listened to her at the kickball game and the only times she had any solo juice was in surprise attacks, like knocking Piper over from behind or pulling out her shiv (or is that shank?) on a smaller opponent in a small space. I am actually looking forward to seeing her get taken down by anyone in the prison. There's annoying and then there is Negan level of annoying. (TWD) She's a low level henchman type of annoying.

[Corgi-ears]

 

(Though I think the show wants us to see how ridiculous Badison, and the entire block war, turns out to be, how much of it is the guards' doing. To that extent, while I too hated Badison, I think the show is under no illusion of her stupidity.) 

[ganesh]

20 hours ago, PreBabylonia said:

The link I attached shows clips from the movie she is promoting as well as her speaking in her normal voice.

And her costar is the guy who plays Hitler on Preacher! hahahaha. Seriously, though she seems like a fairly decent actor in that clip. I've said before, accent aside, the character is terrible, and I just don't think she had a lot to work with. 

8 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

(Though I think the show wants us to see how ridiculous Badison, and the entire block war, turns out to be, how much of it is the guards' doing. To that extent, while I too hated Badison, I think the show is under no illusion of her stupidity.) 

My only concern would be that with Carol out of the picture, TPTBs want to make her boss-level, and in show-reality the only way that works is if the rest of the characters are dumbed down, and that's just lazy writing to me. 

[Sakura12]

Since no one paid any attention to her and even her most devoted minion decided to catch the ball instead of shank anyone. I cant see any of them listening to her anymore. 

I actually got the impression that Alex will take over as kingpin of C block. She thinks she peaked during her time as an international drug smuggler and wanted to go to business school. What better way to do both, by running a drug smuggling operation in prison. She has more contacts than Alieda. If she has the ideas and can get the drugs the other prisoners will gladly follow her over Madison who has nothing and isn't smart enough to be in charge.  

Edited August 9, 2018 by Sakura12

[questionfear]

13 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Since no one paid any attention to her and even her most devoted minion decided to catch the ball instead of shank anyone. I cant see any of them listening to her anymore. 

I actually got the impression that Alex will take over as kingpin of C block. She thinks she peaked during her time as an international drug smuggler and wanted to go to business school. What better way to do both, by running a drug smuggling operation in prison. She has more contacts than Alieda. If she has the ideas and can get the drugs the other prisoners will gladly follow her over Madison who has nothing and isn't smart enough to be in charge.  

Plus if they resurrect the whole Alex killing the guard because of the hit on her thing, maybe she strikes a deal with Kubra (sp?) to move his product in the prison and pay off her debt she "owes" for ratting on him. 

[PreBabylonia]

19 minutes ago, ganesh said:

And her costar is the guy who plays Hitler on Preacher! hahahaha. Seriously, though she seems like a fairly decent actor in that clip. I've said before, accent aside, the character is terrible, and I just don't think she had a lot to work with. 

My only concern would be that with Carol out of the picture, TPTBs want to make her boss-level, and in show-reality the only way that works is if the rest of the characters are dumbed down, and that's just lazy writing to me. 

Wow, I didn't notice that! Did you recognize the actor right away or check out the cast list? Hitler is currently my favourite villain on Preacher. (Dave Hilter)

Yes, it would make for a terrible season if she's the big bad. Perhaps they have noticed at this point that it's just not working and she'll be done away with in short order. If we're lucky, she'll be out of there within the first two episodes.

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Since no one paid any attention to her and even her most devoted minion decided to catch the ball instead of shank anyone. I cant see any of them listening to her anymore. 

I actually got the impression that Alex will take over as kingpin of C block. She thinks she peaked during her time as an international drug smuggler and wanted to go to business school. What better way to do both, by running a drug smuggling operation in prison. She has more contacts than Alieda. If she has the ideas and can get the drugs the other prisoners will gladly follow her over Madison who has nothing and isn't smart enough to be in charge.  

I don't think anyone would pay her attention anymore either. Brilliant suggestion for Alex! Makes sense with her looking over her life's accomplishments. 

[Corgi-ears]

45 minutes ago, ganesh said:

My only concern would be that with Carol out of the picture, TPTBs want to make her boss-level, and in show-reality the only way that works is if the rest of the characters are dumbed down, and that's just lazy writing to me. 

I don't think they will. Part of the arc of this season is that figures of power and their press secretaries lackeys often pit us against each other by playing up our supposed differences (a possible allegory for our political times). But in the end the inmates -- especially the "cookies" transferred from minimum security -- won out because they saw through and resisted the "sow discontent and division" ploy. While it's possible that next season may put Badison into another prominent role, I can't imagine that it will be to make the same point over again. She is a buffoon figure, and the show has more or less made its point about such idiots. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Corgi-ears

[Sakura12]

Alex can even find someone in D block she trusts to sell her products to them. So she can start running both blocks. Without the sisters they have no reason to hate each other. Daddy also strikes me as the second in command type. She'd probably help Alex and move the drugs in D block if she can keep control of her girls. 

Bonus points if she can turn Madison into the pariah of C block. 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, PreBabylonia said:

Did you recognize the actor right away or check out the cast list?

Right away. He's very gaunt. 

I actually hope Alex stays away from the drugs. It was her idea to do the cell phones, which was way more lucrative. If they have to have her smuggling things I hope it's more creative like that. 

[ExplainItAgain]

I'm agreeing with the direction they might take Alex next season. I feel like there's a reason they had her remark that she's peaked and the only thing she was ever good at was distributing heroin. Plus, she flushed her application after thinking she was beholden to Carol for the rest of her time in prison. I can definitely see her becoming the new drug kingpin in prison, plus this will drive some conflict with Piper if/when she finds out. 

[jade.black]

That was depressing in a wholly unexpected way. I was all tensed up expecting to watch one or multiple main characters die in this kickball game, and then even when they all end up being safe, I'm still crying at the end. I gasped when Blanca walked out to a customs and immigration van and poor Diablo was left waiting with flowers. How fucking horrible.

Barb and Carol got a fitting end to their season arc, I enjoyed the storyline but it tied things up nicely.

I was terrified for Nicky as well (my fave character since season 1) when she got roped into the game last minute, but then it's actually Lorna who has the crisis. 

From a realistic perspective, I couldn't see Taystee's trial going any other way, so although it was predictable, it was heartbreakingly true to life. 

Fig & Caputo have been a highlight of this season. Who would have thought.

And then it ends with Piper, the blonde white girl whose crimes were worse than Taystee's and most others to start with, going free early (juxtaposed with Taystee being wrongly sentenced with murder), and the fittingly depressing final line of "What are you going to do now?" as the whole life you've known for the past few years and the love of your life are gone just like that. Man. Say what you will about the seasons as a whole, these writers know how to put together some heart rending finales.

[RoadFullOfPromise]

On 8/1/2018 at 3:44 PM, DangerousMinds said:

Yes, I too speak in the generic American non-accent. Some of us really do.

Same here - I am accentless. (Native of SW Connecticut - close to NYC but no NY accent, part of New England but no NE accent either)

[ganesh]

11 hours ago, jade.black said:

And then it ends with Piper, the blonde white girl whose crimes were worse than Taystee's and most others to start with, going free early (juxtaposed with Taystee being wrongly sentenced with murder), and the fittingly depressing final line of "What are you going to do now?" as the whole life you've known for the past few years and the love of your life are gone just like that.

I'm not a Piper fan, but that's a little unfair of a comparison to make. T was actually released before Piper a few years ago. It's not Piper's fault she got thrown back in prison. Piper got out here because she got lucky essentially. 

Certainly, I think T didn't get a fair trial and there's many reasons why, but part of that was self inflicted in a way, and I do hope they appeal next season. I'm way more of a T fan than Piper, but I just don't know if the comparison is apt. 

[jade.black]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I'm not a Piper fan, but that's a little unfair of a comparison to make. T was actually released before Piper a few years ago. It's not Piper's fault she got thrown back in prison. Piper got out here because she got lucky essentially. 

I'm not faulting Piper for her early release, and through the whole season I kept flashing back to the fact that Taystee did actually get out and then found a way to get back in because she didn't know what to do on the outside. The contrast just stood out to me when you had the fates of Blanca, Piper, and Taystee in back to back scenes. It's more the fact that Piper did get that lucky break when it's so unlikely that the same thing would have happened to the others.

ETA: Piper herself in the show has said that she gets preferential treatment for the way she looks. I don't think it's just skin color, but also her socio-economic background (Badison also makes fun of her for using "big words" and someone, Alex?, points out that Piper represents opportunities a lot of the others never had). I get that there were a lot of moving parts involved in her release, and if Hopper hadn't been dealing drugs on the inside the early release probably never would have happened, but I also can't help but think the trial verdict would have been much more likely to go the other way if it had been Piper sitting there in court. But then, the investigative team probably would have never tried to pin it on her in the first place knowing that.

Edited August 10, 2018 by jade.black

[Ray Adverb]

I think it's gleeful irony that after Tasha used hostage taking to try and get an innocent man thrown in prison for murder he didn't commit, she got convicted of a murder she didn't commit.  It completely backfired on her.

 

Also, I don't know how anyone can be so twisted that they think Piper's crime of carrying some drug money through customs is somehow worse than Tasha's crime of inciting a riot and taking hostages to blackmail authorities into sending an innocent man to prison.

[PeterPirate]

20 hours ago, jade.black said:

That was depressing in a wholly unexpected way. I was all tensed up expecting to watch one or multiple main characters die in this kickball game, and then even when they all end up being safe, I'm still crying at the end. I gasped when Blanca walked out to a customs and immigration van and poor Diablo was left waiting with flowers. How fucking horrible.

Barb and Carol got a fitting end to their season arc, I enjoyed the storyline but it tied things up nicely.

I was terrified for Nicky as well (my fave character since season 1) when she got roped into the game last minute, but then it's actually Lorna who has the crisis. 

From a realistic perspective, I couldn't see Taystee's trial going any other way, so although it was predictable, it was heartbreakingly true to life. 

Fig & Caputo have been a highlight of this season. Who would have thought.

And then it ends with Piper, the blonde white girl whose crimes were worse than Taystee's and most others to start with, going free early (juxtaposed with Taystee being wrongly sentenced with murder), and the fittingly depressing final line of "What are you going to do now?" as the whole life you've known for the past few years and the love of your life are gone just like that. Man. Say what you will about the seasons as a whole, these writers know how to put together some heart rending finales.

I love this episode.  It's bittersweet.     

As to the part in bold, I am a complete idiot because until I read this post I didn't realize that Blanca had been turned over the ICE.  Laura Gómez has serious acting chops and, hopefully, we will see her next season.   

 

2 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

I think it's gleeful irony that after Tasha used hostage taking to try and get an innocent man thrown in prison for murder he didn't commit, she got convicted of a murder she didn't commit.  It completely backfired on her.

 

Also, I don't know how anyone can be so twisted that they think Piper's crime of carrying some drug money through customs is somehow worse than Tasha's crime of inciting a riot and taking hostages to blackmail authorities into sending an innocent man to prison.

I don't think it was wrong for Taystee to want to see Bayley prosecuted, although I believe he would have been exonerated.  But she was guilty of contributing to the death of Humps, since she had the means and the duty to inform the authorities that one of theirs had been shot.  Also, as had been noted by many, she overplayed her hand during the riot negotiations. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by PeterPirate

[Ray Adverb]

48 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I don't think it was wrong for Taystee to want to see Bayley prosecuted, although I believe he would have been exonerated.  But she was guilty of contributing to the death of Humps, since she had the means and the duty to inform the authorities that one of theirs had been shot.  Also, as had been noted by many, she overplayed her hand during the riot negotiations. 

I get her grief.  And I can see how she would misinterpet what happened as murder.  But I wish just one person had told her that it wasn't murder.  Just one.  Caputo came close.  My favorite line of the season was when he angrily told her "You had the chance to make real change but you preferred to get revenge."

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

 But she was guilty of contributing to the death of Humps, since she had the means and the duty to inform the authorities that one of theirs had been shot.  Also, as had been noted by many, she overplayed her hand during the riot negotiations. 

Wouldn't there also be the thing where Tastee committed a felony and that lead to someones death so it is considered murder. I'm no !awyer but is the link between her inciting the riot and Piscatella getting killed enough for her to be guilty of murder?

[ganesh]

I'm not a lawyer either, but that seems tenuous. 

2 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

My favorite line of the season was when he angrily told her "You had the chance to make real change but you preferred to get revenge."

Me too. Especially given Caputo's genuine support when Fig gave into their demands last season. It's classical tragedy. 

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

I'm not a lawyer either, but that seems tenuous. 

 

I wonder though. I've heard stories of bank robberies where a guard will shoot an accomplice or a bystander and if there is a surviving robber they get charged with murder.

[jade.black]

16 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

I get her grief.  And I can see how she would misinterpet what happened as murder.  But I wish just one person had told her that it wasn't murder.  Just one.  Caputo came close.  My favorite line of the season was when he angrily told her "You had the chance to make real change but you preferred to get revenge."

I definitely think Taystee made the wrong call during the riot and is mostly at fault for everything that happened to the prisoners afterwards. They had the chance for change and she shot it down to try to get justice against a man who was only marginally responsbile for Poussey's death. I always blamed Suzanne more for the death of Poussey and still haven't really forgiven the character for it. It bothers me that Taystee has overlooked Suzanne's part in that death and focuses on the guard who didn't realize what he was doing and was too distracted defending himself against Suzanne to notice he was crushing Poussey.

 

20 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

Also, I don't know how anyone can be so twisted that they think Piper's crime of carrying some drug money through customs is somehow worse than Tasha's crime of inciting a riot and taking hostages to blackmail authorities into sending an innocent man to prison.

When I said Piper's crimes were worse than Taystee's, I meant the original crime that got them thrown in jail, not anything that happened in prison since. They are both in on drug trafficking charges, but Piper's was more of a choice while Taystee didn't have many options outside of Vee if she wanted to avoid group homes. Piper had a decent life but was happy to go along living in luxury traveling with Alex, while Taystee was pretty much trying to survive.

Past that, Piper has easily been involved in shadier things throughout her prison sentence (illicit panty business, getting caught up in prison politics/getting Stella sent to max, etc) than Taystee overall up until the riot. It would have been fair for T to be charged as one of the inciters of the riot, not for murder. I'll admit a lot of my feelings come down to the fact that Taystee is just a more relatable character with very human emotions while Piper elicits little sympathy from me. For what it's worth, I was still rooting for Piper's release in this episode, just wish that fate had been as kind to the others.

[PeterPirate]

14 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Wouldn't there also be the thing where Tastee committed a felony and that lead to someones death so it is considered murder. I'm no !awyer but is the link between her inciting the riot and Piscatella getting killed enough for her to be guilty of murder?

Under those circumstances, Taystee would have been prosecuted for Felony Murder, not 2nd-degree Murder.  

I know this from my extensive experience watching Law & Order.