S04.E05: Episode 5

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

George increases the strain on the struggling poor; To his frustration, Ross's efforts in Westminster meet successive failures, driving Ross to make a risky gambit. The adversity the Poldarks face, however, may not be confined to Cornwall alone.

[LiveenLetLive]

Excellent episode, I veer between watching the show and being frustrated by George's obsession to destroy not only Poldark but everyone connected to him (Drake for example) ugh but Wentworth's comeuppance was most satisfying--I will say it again that actor must have had a ball playing the repulsive Osborne.

[Neurochick]

And there goes the toe sucking vicar.  A perfectly undignified death.  

[Zella]

I must have Stockholm syndrome. Ossie was despicable, but I'm actually going to miss his vileness. His end was beyond fitting, though. 

[JustDucky]

I liked this episode.  It showed intriguing sides of everybody's character (except maybe the Vicar's, but to hell with him.  Literally.)

Found the quick scene between Morwenna and her husband (after the death of the Vicar) intriguing.  What kind of marriage will they have from here?  Will we get to see it?

Anybody else want more Geoffery Charles?  He's a good catalyst for other characters, but I want to see him live his own life.  Fall in love with somebody "Uncle" George would wrinkle his nose at.  Get tangled up in school politics.  Something...

[dubbel zout]

On 7/9/2018 at 1:36 AM, LiveenLetLive said:

Wentworth's comeuppance was most satisfying--I will say it again that actor must have had a ball playing the repulsive Osborne.

It really was, but poor Morwenna. She's not being raped any more, which is probably the only good thing that came from Ossie's death. But she's stuck with his terrifying, awful mother.

Why Drake thinks Morwenna would marry him now is beyond me. He really has no idea how the world works, does he.

Oh, George. George, George, George. You petty, insecure, grapsing little man.

[Neurochick]

You mean Rowella.  Morwena was married to the Vicar.

[dubbel zout]

That's what I wrote. Ossie = Vicar, yes? Morwenna's husband?

[HunterHunted]

36 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That's what I wrote. Ossie = Vicar, yes? Morwenna's husband?

@Neurochick wasn't responding to your post. She was responding to @JustDucky.

 

58 minutes ago, JustDucky said:

Found the quick scene between Morwenna and her husband (after the death of the Vicar) intriguing.  What kind of marriage will they have from here?  Will we get to see it?

52 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

You mean Rowella.  Morwena was married to the Vicar.

 

[voiceover]

Because a few episodes have passed since I've said it: "Fuck you, George!"

Because I've never said it about her: "Shut. Up! Demelza!"

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

And there goes the toe sucking vicar.  A perfectly undignified death.  

Eh.  I was hoping he'd get syphilis, and his dick would fall off.

[Magnumfangirl]

11 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Because I've never said it about her: "Shut. Up! Demelza!"

YES!!  After the Hugh affair, I didn't think Demelza could get any stupider.  She's been pushing Drake to court Rosina and he finally takes the bait and Demelza screws it all up.  Did she think Morwenna was going to be free to marry a blacksmith 5 seconds after her husband dies?  And Drake should have at least waited until Whitworth was cold before throwing himself at Morwenna.  Poor Rosina, she was getting a pretty good deal before the shit hit the fan.  A blacksmith who's brother-in-law was in parliament was a pretty big step up for her and its still a step down for Morwenna.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Magnumfangirl

[HunterHunted]

On 7/9/2018 at 12:36 AM, LiveenLetLive said:

I veer between watching the show and being frustrated by George's obsession to destroy not only Poldark but everyone connected to him (Drake for example)

 

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Oh, George. George, George, George. You petty, insecure, grapsing little man.

There's a long game, a short game, and George's game, which is one with long term plans marred by his short-sighted pettiness. I'm glad Elizabeth talked him out of pursuing Drake. This wasn't going to end well for anyone if he pushed it. Morwenna is so fragile that she was going to spill the beans about Ossie to someone important. George didn't even have the sense to go to a judge or talk to Ossie's hateful mother about his suspicions. Instead George sent his thug, Tom Harry, into a borough George neither represents or owns into the home of a member of parliament so that Tom Harry can barge into a home he has no legal authority to be in and rough up the wife and servant of a gentleman. It's literally so fucking stupid. That's some duel worthy shit.

Secondly, Trenwith is not his freaking property. He may live there, but he doesn't own it nor is it his property. He lives there because Geoffrey Charles is a minor and Ross has not seen fit as Geoffrey Charles' actual guardian and the oldest male Poldark to toss George out of the house.

Caroline suffered a great loss. I get it, but she is so pathologically afraid of being deep or serious that it's actually worrisome. She doesn't want to live in her feelings because it's overwhelming. But these are the same shallow awful people who caused her to go running to Dwight Enys as a smart compassionate thoughtful refuge. Being silly and superficial is her defense mechanism, but even Cher Horowitz learned how to be a little deeper. Don't backtrack Caroline.

14 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Because I've never said it about her: "Shut. Up! Demelza!"

I mean really? Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! And Drake is a dope. He hasn't seen Morwenna for years and regardless of how Morwenna felt about Ossie, she was going to have to be in mourning for some amount of time. Did he think she was going to run off with him? Dope.

[TVForever]

24 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Eh.  I was hoping he'd get syphilis, and his dick would fall off.

Actually, I was afraid for Morwena when she tearfully told Drake that she was sick and tainted. Her husband was dipping his pen in many pots, so to speak, so his curse may not yet be broken.

Edited October 29, 2018 by TVForever

[magdalene]

I love Demelza and she usually has common sense but meddling right before Drake's wedding was not her brightest moment. Well, Drake is an idiot and poor Rosina really was treated awfully by him.  And why would he assume that a traumatized woman would be ready for courtship 5 seconds after the awful vicar went to hell?

And now Morwenna is stuck with the vicars awful mother.

[TigerLynx]

Oh goody, the beginning of corporate subsidies - NOT.  I'm baffled as to how Ross does not understand that human greed, more often than not, trumps everything else.

I usually like Demezla, but this is one of the reasons people should stay out of other people's relationships.  In time, once Ossie was dead, and Morwenna told Drake she could not be with him, Drake might have moved on with Rosina without any pressure.  At the very least, he wouldn't have ended up leaving her at the alter.  Demezla meant well both when she wanted Drake to be with Rosina, and when she told Drake about Ossie, but good intentions and all that.

Damn Ossie is dead, but Morwenna is still not free.  Since they forced her into this horror, are Elizabeth and George going to do anything to help Morwenna now?  Of course not.

I hope the writers aren't setting the stage for Demezla/Dwight and Ross/Caroline to have affairs.  I like them as friends.

[JustDucky]

11 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

You mean Rowella.  Morwena was married to the Vicar.

Whoops!  The glass of chardonnay I drank while I watched the show kicked in at the wrong time.  

But yes, Rowella and her husband will have an interesting marriage, to say the least. 

[JudyObscure]

I'm glad, for Rosina's sake, that Demelza told Drake Ossie was dead.  Rosina's marriage with Drake might have had a chance while Morwenna was another man's wife, but with his death Drake's obsession would have had him always looking longingly in Morwenna's direction, while poor Rosina would be giving  him  a home, children. and unrequited love. Now, Morwenna will have time to heal from the abuse and, someday, she and Drake will probably be together.  I like Rosina, she reminds me of Shelly Duvall, I hope she finds someone who will love her in return.  No woman deserves a husband determined to carry a torch for another woman.

[nodorothyparker]

Demelza was kind of in a no-win situation on whether to tell or not tell Drake about the vicar's last ride.  She pushed pushed pushed Drake in Rosina's direction when she knew he didn't love her.  That might have worked out okay as long as Morwenna wasn't free.  But it's not the same situation she and Ross were in where at least Ross had time to come to love her and build a life with her before the opportunity to go sniffing around Elizabeth presented itself again, and she knows how badly that turned out even so.  Sure, it sucks for everybody involved and Drake's an idiot for showing up to pitch his case for Morwenna again before Ossie was hardly even in the ground.  But had Demelza not laid all the facts out for Drake before the wedding, he might have come to bitterly resent the marriage and her by extension.  And he might have spent the entirety of that marriage mourning the one that might have been had he not permanently taken himself off the market just as the possibility that she might be coming back on it opened up.

Loved Morwenna laying the most inappropriately awkward funeral smackdown on George and Elizabeth ever.  "Advantageous to whom exactly?"  Yes, guys, I know you're back to working in tandem to Marie Antoinette up the place but there are consequences to arm twisting a person into something she clearly didn't want because you thought it likely to benefit you.

George is George, but he still really needs to dial it back by half.  He never gave a shit about Osborne either except for the perceived political benefits being related to him gave him, and using his death with no evidence and nothing more to go on than his continued dislike of all things Poldark related to take another long-distance swipe at Ross through Drake is nonsensical.  Even Elizabeth, who's been pretty damn eager to play backup to George this season, could see that.  I mean, seriously George?  How did you think sending Tom Harry to strongarm his way into Ross's house was going to turn out?  Although I did love him continuing to pound on the door after Demelza and Prudie threw him out as if he expected them to open up again and invite him in to tea.

Also loving the costuming this outing.  The rich Regency wear they were all wearing in the London scenes was gorgeous and contrasted nicely with the older Georgian style gowns they're still wearing in Cornwall to mark both the passage of time and how provincial Cornwall is comparatively.

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

13 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

That's what I wrote. Ossie = Vicar, yes? Morwenna's husband?

@Neurochick wasn't responding to your post. She was responding to @JustDucky.

Ah, thanks. Unfortunate placement of the answering post.

11 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I'm glad Elizabeth talked him out of pursuing Drake.

Only directly; George is still going to go after Drake. His whispered conversation with Tom Harry showed that. (Speaking of, when did George rehire him?)

11 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Ross has not seen fit as Geoffrey Charles' actual guardian

Is Ross Geoffrey Charles's actual guardian? I'm fuzzy on those details at this point.

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Morwenna will have time to heal from the abuse and, someday, she and Drake will probably be together. 

I think that's highly unlikely. Morwenna is under her hateful mother-in-law's thumb, and unless and untill someone with more power/wealth/social status can free Morwenna, her life is not going to be looking up anytime soon.

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Loved Morwenna laying the most inappropriately awkward funeral smackdown on George and Elizabeth ever.  "Advantageous to whom exactly?" 

I know! It was great to see Morwenna show a bit of spirit for a change. And I liked that George and Elizabeth had the grace to be appalled at how miserable Morwenna had been in her marriage, but really, it's not as if Ossie's horribleness was a great secret. The guy was a toadie from the get-go.

[Popples]

The odious Oswald is now gone, and I'm actually conflicted. I only really hated him in scenes with Morwenna, because he was so awful to her. I did love the burn the dying man gave him.

As for Drake's situation, maybe it was better Rosina suffer this heartache before they took their vows because he would have had a foot out the door of his marriage if he had found out about Oswald's death afterwards, and she most likely would have grown resentful. Drake was still stupid to show up on Morwenna's doorstep, and I can't feel that bad for him because she told him to stop putting the damn frogs in the pond that led to all of this.

[Nidratime]

Was that Tom Harry doing George's dirty work? I thought it was Tom Harry's brother. 

[taanja]

15 hours ago, Neurochick said:

And there goes the toe sucking vicar.  A perfectly undignified death.  

^This made me laugh out loud!

I will be sorry to see him go. Sigh. The actor surely did seem to relish the part I must say. I seem to have no sympathy for the little wife (Morwenna?) she's such a sad sack.

So Drake threw it all away? Before he had even spoken to Morwenna? Mass communication (texting!) would have come in handy!

[SongbirdHollow]

3 hours ago, Nidratime said:

Was that Tom Harry doing George's dirty work? I thought it was Tom Harry's brother. 

I thought it was Harry Harry also. 

[Ohwell]

I'd like to think that, hurtful that it was to hear it, Drake set Rosina "free" to someday find someone who truly loves her.  I like her and I hope she does meet a nice young man.  As others have said, my issue with Drake is that he stupidly showed up at Morwenna's door so soon.  

[TigerLynx]

Drake had the right idea when he didn't immediately jump into a relationship with Rosina since he still had feelings for Morwenna.  Where this all went wrong was with the rushed "I don't love you, but I might someday be able to" proposal which lead to Drake not marrying Rosina when he learned Ossie was dead.  Followed by the spectacularly stupid move of Drake running to Morwenna expecting her to want to be with him two seconds after her horrible husband died.

Sadly, I get why Rosina said yes to Drake's proposal because during this time period any good options, especially for women, were practically non-existent.

Something else I found annoying and tragically amusing was the man at the gaming hall telling Ross the tips he received for cleaning up messes helped his income because without them he didn't make enough money to survive, and the woman who told Ross her son had a job, but it didn't pay enough so he had to go to the poor house even though he didn't want to, DID NOT translate into, "Hey we need to break up the grain monopoly that is making the price of grain so high, or maybe workers should be paid more money."  Instead Ross decided trying to convince the rich guys in parliament to agree to subsidize the people (which actually translates to subsidizing the grain merchants) so they could eat until the price of grain went back down.  Why would the price go back down?  The grain merchants got exactly what they wanted.

Edited October 30, 2018 by TigerLynx

[TessHarding2]

For Season 5, I would like Demelza to tilt her head slightly to the left or right when she leans in for a kiss instead of the pursed lips kiss she does every time.  They are so sensuous together, but to me their kissing is uptight.  

Edited October 30, 2018 by TessHarding2

[HoodlumSheep]

Ossie's dead!!!!! Aaahhh!!! Excellent. The actor seems like swell guy so I wish him well on whatever comes next for him.

Rowella's husband reminded me of a red-headed Francis in terms of how he carried himself.

Of course they'd try to blame drake for ossie's death. When something goes wrong he's always the one being blamed. Good on elizabeth for telling george to drop it (wish he'd listen though).

I'm on the side of supporting demelza in her choice to tell drake about ossie and morwenna. It was gonna be an extremely sucky situation either way, but i think this was for the best. Rosina deserves better than someone who's still yearning for his old love (no offense, drake). I wouldn't want her to be trapped into that kind of marriage. I do agree with others that drake needed to chill and not scamper after morwenna so quickly, though, especially because they're both emotionally compromised at the moment.

More ross/caroline scenes, please. They're a good pair. I completely forgot about them knowing each other before all of this until it was mentioned this episode. Like, we see them interact at her and dwight's house, but them being high society acquaintances back in their youth never really dawned on me until seeing them together tonight at the parties and parks. 

Jeffy boy...let's hope this is a phase.

Edited October 30, 2018 by HoodlumSheep

[Clawdette]

Yes, Harry Harry, whom we can only assume is Tom Harry's brother, has slithered into Tom's odious and toady role.  Elizabeth, pay more attention to your husband.  You're clever enough to know George is always working an angle and can't be trusted.

[lucindabelle]

I HATE DEMELZA!

 

Even fucking DRAKE said why didn’t you tell me later? Even ROSINA knew that drake would never have left her.

demelza knows better than anyone that love DOES grow. She married a man in love with another. But who loves her most now and is better for him.

rosina and drake would have got on very well!!!

 

i was hoping against hope they wouldn’t get the news so soon. Still not sure how they did.

I almost couldn’t watch the rear of the episode I was so infurIATED. When her brother tells her rqhat the Lord wants Demelza replies but drake would have hated me!

 

ao it’s all about YOu demelza? REALLY?

 

i also think it would be satisfying to see Caroline cry not just hear about it. Hell I cried when Ross talked about losing Julia. Go home Caroline.

i will never feel the same about Caroline. This misery is in her head.

 

also Morwenna just kill your self. Seriously. Am I supposed to feel sorry for you throwing away your shell bracelet? You have allies in dr Enys and Caroline. You have right. Find out what they are or die. Your existence and self pity are tedious.

[Jacks-Son]

On 10/29/2018 at 7:16 AM, nodorothyparker said:

George is George, but he still really needs to dial it back by half.  He never gave a shit about Osborne either except for the perceived political benefits being related to him gave him, and using his death with no evidence and nothing more to go on than his continued dislike of all things Poldark related to take another long-distance swipe at Ross through Drake is nonsensical.  Even Elizabeth, who's been pretty damn eager to play backup to George this season, could see that.  I mean, seriously George?  How did you think sending Tom Harry to strongarm his way into Ross's house was going to turn out?  Although I did love him continuing to pound on the door after Demelza and Prudie threw him out as if he expected them to open up again and invite him in to tea.

This ^. Please, when is this stupidity going to end?  How many times can George blame a Carne or Poldark for some imaginary crime before it ends with his own death. George, you perceive meek Drake Carne to be a murderer, so you send this Tom “Cudgel” imitation to do what? Apprehend him in Ross’ home? Dude got bitch-slapped (it’s just a saying) by two kitchen maids.  George, if Drake beat, then murdered that “Monster”, what makes you think you’re safe. If I constantly accuse a neighbor, and someone with whom I’m having an age-old feud, with a crime that could lead to a hanging, I think that neighbor may decide to end my obsession.  Ideally, Rowella’s husband will come under suspicion because of his cuts and bruises and Ossie’s extramarital affair will be discovered or revealed by the dying patient who has every reason to expose Ossie’s duplicitous behavior when it comes to diddling his sister-in-law, and leaking word of Pascoe’s bank’s travails. As a bonus, Rowella’s prostitution will be made known (I really don’t give a shit about Rowella or her foolish husband). Mama Whitworth will become a laughingstock and suffer the same indignity and cruelty that she seems to relish dishing out to others. Like Dominoes falling, so many pieces could topple with just a few words or a single push.

Bravo to Elizabeth for laying down the law to George regarding the whole Drake killed Ossie fantasy. Elizabeth’s behavior this episode made it almost seem like she has come to believe that she lost her best option when she chose Francis and consequently George, over Ross. Her admiration for Ross appears to be growing; Ross gets things done (albeit slowly) while George just whines about the unfairness of life. A lot of side-eye, again, from Elizabeth checking out Ross.  Girl, get yourself some of that and give up that shriveled toad, you call a husband. Meanwhile, it was nice to see Ross coming home to some nice “home cooking”  ;=) (if you know what I mean).

Kisses were plentiful at Nampara during this trip. Ross and Demelza actually enjoy kissing each other again.  More of that, please. The kids, Prudie, AND Garrick will write to you of their approval.

I can see a future ass-whupping coming for Monk Adderley if he keeps treating Ross like shit.  He thinks he’s, ahem, cock-blocking Ross with Caroline, but he soon may learn that Ross, the Troubadour, is not some Fop like him. Take what happened to that punk who tried to sucker punch Ross at the club to heart, your ass is next.

[cursethedarkness]

I keep waiting for vile George to get what's coming to him, but I guess that will be reserved for the series finale. If the show runner is interested in viewer opinions, I vote for the loss of all his money, to Ross, preferably -- Elizabeth would certainly abandon him and he would be forced to live out his days in the company of the low classes he has always abhorred, and suffer the agony of the same starvation he had helped to inflict upon so many.

[Nolefan]

I am all for honesty in relationships, but it seemed excessively cruel to me the way Drake told Rosina that he would marry her but that he maybe would never love her because he was in love with another woman. I was like — What?? It almost seemed like some cowardly way of getting himself off the hook in the future in their marriage (if Rosina winds up unhappy, he would just be able to say that he warned her).  Then, dumping her at the alter. YIKES! But, I guess she can’t be mad at him because he warned her. Rosina seems like a nice, loyal, hard working woman. It is your loss Drake!  I also don’t get Drake’s hiding out in front of Morewenna’s house routine. He just seems so unattractive when he does this. I keep saying to myself “get some self esteem man!” Morewenna has been through HELL. She doesn’t need to feel responsible for someone else’s happiness right now. So much for Demezla’s promise to Verity that she would not interfere in other people’s love lives. For a woman that wants Ross to love her with all his heart (which she has the right to expect as his wife), I was surprised about her pushing Drake to marry Rosina when he was still in love with someone else. Another “What?” moment for me (Demelza, your husband has been pinning over another woman for years while married to you, then has a child with said woman, and you have an affair with another man because you are upset about your husband and the other woman’s relationship, yet you advise another person to marry someone out of convenience because that worked out so well for you? O...k...) Rosina found out fast why this was a bad idea, huh? Caroline was becaming one of my favs, but her partying in London with her shallow friends almost made me lose all sympathy for her. Caroline, your husband had lost a child, too. Go home your husband. And why is Ross even talking to Elizabeth anymore? Shouldn’t he be shunning her out of respect for Demelza, or is he allowed to hang out with her now because of Demelza’s infidelity with Hugh?

Edited November 4, 2018 by Nolefan

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, Nolefan said:

(Demelza, your husband has been pinning over another woman for years while married to you, then has a child with said woman, and you have an affair with another man because you are upset about your husband and the other woman’s relationship, yet you advise another person to marry someone out of convenience because that worked out so well for you? O...k...)

Exactly!

[Anothermi]

6 hours ago, Ohwell said:

  6 hours ago, Nolefan said:

(Demelza, your husband has been pinning over another woman for years while married to you, then has a child with said woman, and you have an affair with another man because you are upset about your husband and the other woman’s relationship, yet you advise another person to marry someone out of convenience because that worked out so well for you? O...k...)

To be fair to Demelza, the lessons learned from life aren't linear.  Frequently we choose the wrong life lesson and only realize (after applying that one) that there was another lesson to learn. 

I think Demelza believed (and rightfully, in my own hindsight) that if you care for someone AT ALL that you should always be truthful to them. Not lie to them, even to spare their feelings (that is a difficult one) as lying to those you care about can never bring anything positive and will come to bite you no matter how long it's been hidden.  I personally think that Rosina may be hurt and confused and perhaps feel shamed right now. But she will never have had to go through self reproach and believing she caused her own misery. (This would be from being dumped at the alter - a terrible humiliation, but she actually knows why.)

As for Drake's annoying behaviour pining at Morwenna's gate. HE doesn't know what she has endured. They've barely exchanged more than a few sentences all this time. He basically knows she's always hated Ossie, not why.  WE know, but this is the very basis of a tragical romance - much as we may hate it.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Anothermi
clarity

[Jacks-Son]

7 hours ago, Nolefan said:

Caroline was becaming one of my favs, but her partying in London with her shallow friends almost made me lose all sympathy for her. Caroline, your husband had lost a child, too. Go home your husband. And why is Ross even talking to Elizabeth anymore? Shouldn’t he be shunning her out of respect for Demelza, or is he allowed to hang out with her now because of Demelza’s infidelity with Hugh?

In a way, I can sympathize with Caroline.  She takes stoicism to a new level, but she needs to release some of the internal pain and Ross helped her realize that although it may be "inconvenient" that Sarah died, it's still a very powerful loss and she needs to figure out how to grieve without getting stupid drunk or something.   Caroline is grief partying. Everyone deals with a loss in their own way.  Caroline tries to pretend it never happened and if it did, it doesn't affect her.  Dwight is a brooder who uses his job to lose himself in.  She'll go home when she's able to face the house and Dwight.  Why should Ross shun Elizabeth? She's the mother of his child, godchild, and nephew. They've been friends for a long time.  What's done is done. Demelza may be hurt, but Valentine is a child and Ross has to figure out how to get involved in his child's life without tipping off George.

[CTrent29]

Why is this series so hellbent upon portraying George Warleggan as a one-note villain?  And why is it so hellbent upon portraying both Ross and Demelza as borderline saints?

This episode and the fourth series overall is proving to be a big fat bore . . . and dishonest as hell.

Quote

 Demelza may be hurt, but Valentine is a child and Ross has to figure out how to get involved in his child's life without tipping off George.

No, he doesn't.  Ross has NO RIGHT to be anywhere near Valentine.  Not after the manner in which he had conceived the latter.  And  legally, HE IS NOT Valentine's father.

Edited February 27, 2019 by CTrent29