S03.E05: Pies

[ShelleySue]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

3 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

Did anyone wonder how bad Katherine's peanut butter pie was?  Was it just because they aren't familiar with candy like Reese's peanut butter cups or what it really that bad?

IT HAD PUMPKIN IN IT. Sorry to yell, but you don't add squash to a peanut butter and chocolate pie.

I'm allergic to peanuts so I have no idea what's usually in a peanut and chocolate pie.  It sounded disgusting to me, but the thought of peanuts makes me gag anyway.  

They are now at the point when they each have to do a wonderful job.  Up until this episode it was all about not being the worst one.

[illdoc]

13 minutes ago, ShelleySue said:

 Was it just because they aren't familiar with candy like Reese's peanut butter cups

It looked like there was a pile of them on the plate (with ??? something orange in between them and the pie), so I would think that they were sold in the UK (unless she was sent them by her brother in America). But, yes, I agree that pumpkin/squash in it was just plain wrong.

[Rinaldo]

2 hours ago, backgroundnoise said:

Speaking of sweet eats, I've often wondered exactly what those meringue desserts like the Spanish wind-torte(sp?) taste like.  Is all that meringue layered with creme not sweet?  It sounds like eating a bag of marshmallows dipped in icing. ...

And some of the others they've done over the years, like Floating Island, which is globes of soft meringue floating in vanilla sauce, with spun sugar decoration. Or the Swedish Princess Torte, cake with the layers separated by pastry creme & jam & whipped cream, with marzipan icing and chocolate decoration. When Paul ate Mary's sample, he called it "everything I like in a cake." (I suppose the jam adds a touch of tartness but the overall sum is still extremely sweet.) I find it delicious too (not so much the floating island), but it doesn't give him much of a position from which to sneer at transatlantic tastes in dessert. Nor does his frequently mentioned total devotion to Iced Buns.

As we've all presumably noticed, Mary stayed admirably silent on the whole issue throughout.

[dubbel zout]

7 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

As we've all presumably noticed, Mary stayed admirably silent on the whole issue throughout.

I like to think Mary is always happy to see Paul hoist by his own petard. Hee.

[jpgr]

4 hours ago, sempervivum said:

(although I always wince to see Mary's sideways gnawing on food, apparently she doesn't trust her dentures)

Yes! I also always wince at how Mary bites into things. I didn't think about dentures.

[call me ishmael]

29 minutes ago, jpgr said:

Yes! I also always wince at how Mary bites into things. I didn't think about dentures.

Maybe she is afraid Paul will criticize the way she is biting things...

[Quilt Fairy]

Before this episode aired, I have never thought of any type of pies as being uniquely American.  They're just - pies.  And to quote (the future President) Barack Obama in the movie Southside With You, "Who doesn't like pie?"

[Mystery]

On 7/15/2018 at 6:30 PM, Toothbrush said:

I bought it for my Kindle, so my thanks to @Rinaldo as well. 

As I said, this is one of my favorite books. But I always tell people that the first chapter or so is supposed to be a little confusing (particularly to one of the characters), so please stick with it! There's an excellent book that's the first in the same story universe, The Doomsday Book, and there are some sequels that aren't as good as either of those two but are still pretty good.

I hadn't realized, until the eel stuff came up in the middle of this episode, that I hadn't seen the little historical bits they have in other episodes. I'm not ashamed to say I fast forwarded through every second of the eels. 

[iggysaurus]

I was amused but not upset about Paul's generalizations -- I agree that he/the show is over-generalizing, but I don't take it personally, maybe because I don't really feel a strong identification as "American" (I am American, but to me it just happens to be where I'm from - not my identity).  I love the cultural culinary differences and didn't feel a need to bash British recipes in return for them saying American pies are too sweet/disgusting. 

I also couldn't care less about Paul's personal life.  I just watch him on the show and don't pay any attention to that. He can be arrogant, but he doesn't particularly bother me. *shrug*

Anyway, maybe when they said "American pies" they meant pies that originated in America and are not generally made elsewhere? For example, of course we make fruit pies in America but they are not uniquely American, as Britain also makes them, so that's why they are not under the definition of "American pies" as defined by this episode.  I don't know, just speculating. 

I love the little historical segments. It didn't seem weird to me that it was stuck in the middle - isn't that how they air it in the UK? It's not supposed to be about the specific thing they're making in that episode, necessarily - just an interesting historical tidbit that relates to the general topic of that episode (pies, in this case).  Eel pie sounds disgusting but it's fascinating to learn about the historical aspect of it and how they just used what they had access to.  I was watching a British show set in World War II and they kept talking about going out to get eels for dinner. I wondered at the time if that was common and now I know that it was! 

[illdoc]

34 minutes ago, iggysaurus said:

 Eel pie sounds disgusting but it's fascinating to learn about the historical aspect of it and how they just used what they had access to.  I was watching a British show set in World War II and they kept talking about going out to get eels for dinner. I wondered at the time if that was common and now I know that it was! 

I watched "Victorian Slum House" (in which modern people were living in a recreated slum of the Victorian era) and the peddlers were selling "pickled eel" and "trotters" (which seemed to be boiled lamb legs)--and the regular modern people (that is, those not part of the recreation) were buying them!

[Ceindreadh]

3 hours ago, illdoc said:

I watched "Victorian Slum House" (in which modern people were living in a recreated slum of the Victorian era) and the peddlers were selling "pickled eel" and "trotters" (which seemed to be boiled lamb legs)--and the regular modern people (that is, those not part of the recreation) were buying them!

Trotters would generally be pigs feet rather than lamb, I think. 

[illdoc]

30 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

Trotters would generally be pigs feet rather than lamb, I think.

I'll take your word for it (they never described them--just my guess on what they looked like)

[chaifan]

What a weird episode.  I agree with all of the comments re: Paul's over the top "disgusting" comments, but at the same time I was more bothered by the bizarre description of what an "American" pie should be like - the sugar based, more tart-like crust, no upper crust, etc.  He can have his opinion, but there just doesn't seem to be any culinary basis for his description of the pie, like he just made it up or something.  As for the "too sweet" complaint, maybe our pies are sweeter, but there have been some very sweet desserts on this show and I've never heard him complain about anything being too sweet. 

Did contestants in the earlier seasons have as much advance notice of what the challenges would be, with the opportunity to practice their bakes during the week?  If so, I really don't understand Manisha's last pie.  I can't imagine something like that setting up one time, and being so sloppy the next.  As Mary noted, there was no setting agent.  So how would it have ever worked in a practice run?  I also hate that her end statements were all about being afraid of disappointing your family.  You mean that gaggle of helpless men who you have to wait on hand and foot?  geesh.  Can we start a Free Manisha campaign?  

I love eel (unagi) in Japanese restaurants.  I know fresh water eel is different, but I'd be game to try it.  In a pie, though?  eh, not my first thought of how to serve eel, but I'd probably try it if offered. 

And, finally, count me in on the people who saw the hanging bit of pie and thought "ewww, a hair".   I don't understand how most of these women can stand to have their hair in their face.  I'd be the bun queen. 

[biakbiak]

7 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Trotters would generally be pigs feet rather than lamb, I think. 

Trotters can either be pig or sheep/lamb.

[ShelleySue]

On July 17, 2018 at 10:34 PM, chaifan said:

Did contestants in the earlier seasons have as much advance notice of what the challenges would be, with the opportunity to practice their bakes during the week?  If so, I really don't understand Manisha's last pie.  I can't imagine something like that setting up one time, and being so sloppy the next.  As Mary noted, there was no setting agent.  So how would it have ever worked in a practice run?  I also hate that her end statements were all about being afraid of disappointing your family.  You mean that gaggle of helpless men who you have to wait on hand and foot?  geesh.  Can we start a Free Manisha campaign?  

I think that they have a week to perfect the showstopper and signature dishes at home.  So between the signature dish, working full-time and taking care of her father and brothers, Manisha probably didn't have a lot of time to perfect her "American" pie.

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:34 PM, chaifan said:

Did contestants in the earlier seasons have as much advance notice of what the challenges would be, with the opportunity to practice their bakes during the week?

I don't know if it changed from early seasons, but IIRC contestants know what all the challenges will be before filming for the season starts.  On any particular week, however, they're probably only practicing for that week's bakes, and as mentioned above, have to do that around work, school and family.  We've certainly heard enough bakers say "This is only the second time I've done this."  I think the bigger challenge would have been formulating something that met with the odd parameters that defined an "American pie".

[jpgr]

On 7/14/2018 at 5:09 PM, sum said:

You think eel pies are bad, there are also jellied eels, said to be sold with pies and mash in those shops. And then there's a thing called Stargazy pie that makes you murmur 'why...?'. I admit I'm not exactly an adventurous person when it comes to unfamiliar fish or meat food (no problem with any fruits or vegs) but those were some of the most bizarre looking foods I've learned recent years.

I'm watching "Ladies in Lavender" on Amazon, with Judi Dench and Maggie Smith eating Stargazy Pie, with fresh pilchards poking out of it!

[sum]

2 hours ago, jpgr said:

I'm watching "Ladies in Lavender" on Amazon, with Judi Dench and Maggie Smith eating Stargazy Pie, with fresh pilchards poking out of it!

Guess it's what they call Baader-Meinhof phenomenon but apparently it was featured in the latest episode (last Sunday) of Poldark, too. I think the incongruity between its dreamy and gentle name and the striking look is probably what makes it so catchy. Then you realize the name makes so much sense. ?

[Quilt Fairy]

I'm still fussing about this episode and have come to the conclusion that nothing in that challenge would have been recognized in America as "pie".

[CleverUserName975]

Finally caught this last night. I don't know where Paul sampled "American" pie [insert obligatory dirty joke here] but like many of you I think those were really tarts and not pies [fill in another dirty Brit slang vs. US slang joke here].

That said, I'm surprised no one went for a buttermilk pie filling. You can do so much with that to make it unique. Coconut and lemon. Blackberries and cardamom. Raspberries and mint. Pineapple and Rum (throw in coconut and call it a Pina Colada pie--we had one for 4th of July--go Murica!). Vanilla and roasted banana.

Dang it, now I'm hungry.

[awaken]

On 7/17/2018 at 4:07 PM, illdoc said:

I watched "Victorian Slum House" (in which modern people were living in a recreated slum of the Victorian era) and the peddlers were selling "pickled eel" and "trotters" (which seemed to be boiled lamb legs)--and the regular modern people (that is, those not part of the recreation) were buying them!

Loved that show!

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, awaken said:

Loved that show!

Loved that whole series of shows.  I think my favorite was the WWII one.  It's a wonder an entire generation of Londoners didn't have PTSD from being awakened at all hours of the night and sent to huddle in air raid shelters.

 

On 7/21/2018 at 3:36 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

I'm still fussing about this episode and have come to the conclusion that nothing in that challenge would have been recognized in America as "pie".

Agree.  Except maybe the key lime - which wasn't really key lime but still looked scrummy.

[dleighg]

On 7/16/2018 at 7:54 AM, sum said:

Yes and funnily enough Ryan's quite clear that you should follow the recipe from the book, not the BBC website version. People who used the BBC recipe all say theirs were delightful though.

 

So I am prepared to make this (the recipe from the book) and have a couple of questions for those familiar with British recipes.

I made my own "stem ginger in syrup" (yes I'm obsessive) but the recipe calls for "4 pieces". I read somewhere on the interwebs that this should be about 80 g total. Does that sound right?

Also, it calls for a tin of "condensed milk." In the US we have evaporated milk (which is unsweetened) and sweetened condensed milk. Which is the recipe referring to?

Thanks in advance!

[Kohola3]

4 minutes ago, dleighg said:

In the US we have evaporated milk (which is unsweetened) and sweetened condensed milk.

I am guessing sweetened condensed. I have a very similar recipe from my aunt that that is what is used.

[Rinaldo]

Yes, definitely sweetened condensed milk. Pies in the US with a citrus-flavored filling (lemon meringue is a popular one) are generally made in one of two traditional ways. One is a jelled clear filling using cornstarch; the other is the same as what Ryan did, using the reaction between citrus juice and sweetened condensed milk.

[Toothbrush]

6 hours ago, dleighg said:

Also, it calls for a tin of "condensed milk." In the US we have evaporated milk (which is unsweetened) and sweetened condensed milk. Which is the recipe referring to?

And don't get them confused as I did at my first Thanksgiving as a young bride attempting my MIL's mashed potatoes. Hey, the "tins" look the same. Of course I have had to listen to "will you be making mashed potatoes for dessert" for 25 years..lol Those sorts of things never die in my family!

Good luck with the pie. Let us know how it turns out.  

[carrps]

On 7/16/2018 at 11:49 PM, Mystery said:

As I said, this is one of my favorite books. But I always tell people that the first chapter or so is supposed to be a little confusing (particularly to one of the characters), so please stick with it! There's an excellent book that's the first in the same story universe, The Doomsday Book, and there are some sequels that aren't as good as either of those two but are still pretty good.

I hadn't realized, until the eel stuff came up in the middle of this episode, that I hadn't seen the little historical bits they have in other episodes. I'm not ashamed to say I fast forwarded through every second of the eels. 

I loved The Doomsday Book. I still haven't read the "dog" book yet, but it's buried in one of my piles...somewhere.

Glad to see everyone was as pissed off as I was at Appalling Paul in this episode. Especially since in one of those special episodes where Mary and Paul demonstrate step by step how to make certain desserts, Paul was going on and ON  about how he loved white chocolate and was actually gobbling handsful of white chocolate chips (drops?) that were an ingredient in the recipe Mary was making. I can only eat white chocolate if it is less than 50% of the flavor profile in a dish (See's makes a candy called Polar Bear Paws which is caramel and peanuts coated in white chocolate. Yum!). But straight white chocolate is so bland and sweet sweet sweet. I think he just wanted to slag on America for some personal reason of his own. Just weird.

[dleighg]

On 7/25/2018 at 7:50 AM, dleighg said:

So I am prepared to make this (the recipe from the book) and have a couple of questions for those familiar with British recipes.

I made my own "stem ginger in syrup" (yes I'm obsessive) but the recipe calls for "4 pieces". I read somewhere on the interwebs that this should be about 80 g total. Does that sound right?

Also, it calls for a tin of "condensed milk." In the US we have evaporated milk (which is unsweetened) and sweetened condensed milk. Which is the recipe referring to?

Thanks in advance!

I made it! My first Italian meringue (it was really pretty easy). My piping skills are kind of lacking (I use a disposable plastic one), and I was afraid of running out so my first pass was too sparse and I went around again. So not the best look, but the torch can make anything look good! Note to self: this recipe makes PLENTY of meringue.

A very nice flavor. The "stem ginger" does add a nice bite to an otherwise sweet pie. I used this recipe: https://bakingmakingandcrafting.com/2012/10/04/the-great-british-bake-off-ryans-key-lime-pie/

[Kohola3]

dleighg that looks scrummy!  Thanks for sharing the tips.

[AZChristian]

But you used an actual pie plate!!!  Paul Hollywood would NOT approve.  (However, if you need an impartial judge for a taste test, PM me.)

[dleighg]

No it's a tart pan (as specified in the recipe). The base of the tart pan is now on a serving plate. It's just that the edges of the tart are flopping a bit :)

[Kohola3]

15 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

(However, if you need an impartial judge for a taste test, PM me.)

Count me in!  I'll even pay postage for a slice!

[rhys]

Well, that is gorgeous! I bet it tastes yummy too. Good on ya.

[Toothbrush]

Your piping looks pretty damn good to me @dleighg, and most importantly it looks delicious!!! Glad you liked it.

[magdalene]

I want to apologize to anybody who I may have offended with my American super market pie experiences.  I realize I shouldn't judge a pie culture by pies not home-made.  I didn't realize until I re-read my post today how it must have come off. The episode made me remember my American pie experiences from years ago and I just thoughtlessly blurted it out.

Being from Germany I grew up with fruit tarts, which were often quite ....tart.  So I  must have felt pie culture shock, ha.

Paul confuses me with his peanut butter hate.  I could swear I watched one of those cancer charity GBBS specials on the web where he said he liked peanut butter.  I know they'll never air these specials on PBS - which is a pity because they are very good.

[Rinaldo]

I certainly didn't take offense, @magdalene, as yours was a specific reaction, not a general attack on the whole nation. You encountered some bad or too-sweet pies, and that is certainly possible. In particular, your tale of a disgusting pumpkin pie reminded me of a dreadful one that was once served to me for Thanksgiving. It was my first year as a college professor, I had moved to a new part of the country and didn't know many people yet, and so I was happy to accept an invitation from a student (an adult lady) to join her family for the holiday. She seemed to be accustomed to handling this for her family, the meal itself was unremarkable, and then she brought out the pie she'd baked and gave us each a slice. And it was dreadful: watery, raw-tasting, all the seasonings wrong. As I wondered if I would be able to choke it down as politeness demanded, to my relief she said "Oh my goodness, this is the worst thing I've ever tasted. Please everybody, put down your forks, I'll take this away, and we'll just have ice cream." I've always admired her for that.

Part of the problem is that it's so familiar an item (and the most popular brand of canned pumpkin has such a useful recipe) that people get careless, think they can do it without guidance, don't really pay attention to the amounts or timing or other details, and it comes out awful.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Rinaldo

[sum]

17 hours ago, magdalene said:

Paul confuses me with his peanut butter hate.  I could swear I watched one of those cancer charity GBBS specials on the web where he said he liked peanut butter.  I know they'll never air these specials on PBS - which is a pity because they are very good.

There's a few years of gap between this series and the cancer charity specials last year. As I said before, over the years he seems to have learned to enjoy some of those previously less familiar or not too keen on ingredients when they are used in the right place. I think peanut butter was one of them and he now doesn't mind using it in his recipes.

[proserpina65]

On ‎07‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 9:45 AM, Eliza422 said:

Danny wanted to make a “non-disgusting “ pumpkin pie, and I think the graphics said she was going to use butternut squash. It was strange.

she was the worst one after Paul with the bashing, since she was saying stuff about the American part of her family.

To be fair to Danny (but not to Paul), pumpkin pie is often disgusting.  I was intrigued by the idea of using butternut squash instead.  It has a slight sweetness to it which would probably work really well in pie; I had something once in a tapas place with was primarily caramelized butternut squash and it was fantastic.

[proserpina65]

On ‎07‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 2:35 PM, sheetmoss said:

It's a cultural norm, same as Americans liking sweeter desserts....judge on that basis!

Oh, Brits like desserts that are plenty sweet - their puddings can be just as sickening sweet as any American dessert.  Maybe it's just our pies that are "too sweet".

[proserpina65]

On ‎07‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 8:43 PM, Rinaldo said:

I certainly didn't take offense, @magdalene, as yours was a specific reaction, not a general attack on the whole nation. You encountered some bad or too-sweet pies, and that is certainly possible. In particular, your tale of a disgusting pumpkin pie reminded me of a dreadful one that was once served to me for Thanksgiving. It was my first year as a college professor, I had moved to a new part of the country and didn't know many people yet, and so I was happy to accept an invitation from a student (an adult lady) to join her family for the holiday. She seemed to be accustomed to handling this for her family, the meal itself was unremarkable, and then she brought out the pie she'd baked and gave us each a slice. And it was dreadful: watery, raw-tasting, all the seasonings wrong. As I wondered if I would be able to choke it down as politeness demanded, to my relief she said "Oh my goodness, this is the worst thing I've ever tasted. Please everybody, put down your forks, I'll take this away, and we'll just have ice cream." I've always admired her for that.

Part of the problem is that it's so familiar an item (and the most popular brand of canned pumpkin has such a useful recipe) that people get careless, think they can do it without guidance, don't really pay attention to the amounts or timing or other details, and it comes out awful.

One year my mother tried using fresh pumpkin instead of canned for her pies; it came out a lot like what you described.  Never been much of a pumpkin fan anyway, but that just about killed it.

[dubbel zout]

I roasted a pumpkin to use for pumpkin bread, and the difference in taste between it and canned pumpkin (not pie filling) was negligible. It was an interesting cooking experiment, but opening up a can of solid-pack pumpkin is so much easier than carving and cleaning a fresh pumpkin.

[proserpina65]

23 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I roasted a pumpkin to use for pumpkin bread, and the difference in taste between it and canned pumpkin (not pie filling) was negligible. It was an interesting cooking experiment, but opening up a can of solid-pack pumpkin is so much easier than carving and cleaning a fresh pumpkin.

I don't think my mother roasted her pumpkin.  I think she just cut it up and tried to cook it down.  Whatever she did, it was nasty.

[magdalene]

I wonder if using sweet potatoes instead of pumpkin would make a nice pie?  I like sweet potatoes.

[DHDancer]

13 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I wonder if using sweet potatoes instead of pumpkin would make a nice pie?  I like sweet potatoes.

Sweet Potato Pie is pretty well known here in the US.  Very sweet (to my taste) as a rule and is made very similarly to pumpkin pie.  Here's a random recipe https://www.marthastewart.com/316561/sweet-potato-pie  (check out the similar recipes at the bottom of that page)

Edited August 3, 2018 by DHDancer

[Kohola3]

I have never been a fan of pumpkin pie but I do like sweet potato pie. It's a Southern "thing" in the US. But everyone's taste is different.

[Eliza422]

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

I wonder if using sweet potatoes instead of pumpkin would make a nice pie?  I like sweet potatoes.

I did a combined sweet potato / pumpkin pie and it was awesome - best of both worlds to me. It was an ATK recipe.

[meep.meep]

17 hours ago, magdalene said:

I wonder if using sweet potatoes instead of pumpkin would make a nice pie?  I like sweet potatoes.

My grandparents were farmers.  Apparently one family joke was whether it was going to be pumpkin pie or sweet potato pie after dinner.  Because they taste so much alike it's hard to tell them apart.

[dahling]

From a lifelong sweet potato hater, I can emphatically say that they do not taste alike. One year spending Thanksgiving at Epcot, I was served "sweet potato pumpkin pie".  I grimaced, and then decided not to be a big baby and try new things because I was on vacation, and after all it was Disney, and how bad could it be?  Well, I don't know if it was ... bad... but it was not pumpkin pie. It was sweet potato. I did not finish it, and it did nothing to change my mind that sweet potatoes are unfit for human consumption. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Possibly this is similar to a couple of my good friends who love chocolate but hate coffee. You know that trick that all the good chefs say, to add coffee to your chocolate product, and it won't taste like coffee, they swear! It will just intensify the chocolate!  My friends eat those things and taste nothing but coffee.  Ptooey. Me, I love both and just taste all kinds of heaven in my mouth. So tastes definitely differ. 

[Kohola3]

40 minutes ago, dahling said:

My friends eat those things and taste nothing but coffee.

Totally me.  I can pick out one molecule of coffee tainting my chocolate treat.  Ugh.  And adore sweet potatoes.  A study in differing taste buds.

[Mabinogia]

45 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

1 hour ago, dahling said:

My friends eat those things and taste nothing but coffee.

Totally me.  I can pick out one molecule of coffee tainting my chocolate treat.

Add me to that list. One coffee bean and I'm spitting that crap out. I hate coffee. 

Pumpkin, otoh, I LOVE. Pumpkin pie is one of my all time favorites. I would be furious if someone offered me what they called pumpkin pie and gave me something with sweet potatoes. I don't hate sweet potato, but still. It's not the same!!!!!