Gimme That Old Time Religion

[queenanne]

On 7/27/2016 at 5:42 PM, Sew Sumi said:

Isn't God everywhere? I've seen fundie weddings in barns and outdoors, so it's not unprecedented. You just can't invite a thousand of your BFFs, and we know that the Duggars are all about the Show, as tacky as it may be. 

I was nominally identifying as Christian when I got married, but didn't realize that I'd actually been baptized Lutheran, as had my husband. Since we didn't know this, his parents' Lutheran church wouldn't marry us, and my parents' Dutch Reformed church likewise refused. Assholes. 

We borrowed a non-denominational pastor and got married at my parents' house. The ceremony was short and sweet (hubby is an extreme introvert and hates any kind of spotlight on him), but we certainly felt that God was present. 

Yeah, my mother is very particular about trying to keep me on the roster of members at her church, specifically and precisely because there's (at least I seem to recall this is the rationale, according to friends who've been through the process of getting married), such high demand for the actually-ordained in multiple denominations, and for officially consecrated/sanctified wedding locales, that many ministers and churches won't perform or host for people not on the members' roster.

[EAG46]

Maybe some former Fundamentalist Xtians can help this mostly secular Jew out.      Why are there fundamentalist churches using our stuff?!   This is in light of a certain Presidential candidate appearing at a church and the pastor giving him a tallit--a Jewish prayer shawl--to wear.   I am confused.

[GeeGolly]

4 hours ago, EAG46 said:

Maybe some former Fundamentalist Xtians can help this mostly secular Jew out.      Why are there fundamentalist churches using our stuff?!   This is in light of a certain Presidential candidate appearing at a church and the pastor giving him a tallit--a Jewish prayer shawl--to wear.   I am confused.

I don't know, but prior to the heart necklace Derick gave Jill to begin their courtship, Jill wore a necklace with the Star of David all the time.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Phyllis Schlafly has died. And all God's people said Amen... 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/06/obituaries/phyllis-schlafly-conservative-leader-and-foe-of-era-dies-at-92.html?_r=0

Edited September 6, 2016 by FakeJoshDuggar

[Arwen Evenstar]

Another member of The Old Guard down. She was a dinosaur when it came to a good many of her ideas-ideas that rightfully belong in the past.

However, that said, she had a family and friends that loved her and will miss her.

She even had a gay son, who wouldn't repudiate her ideas.

[Portia]

Just in case anyone doubts that we used to be dyed-in-the-wool fundamentalists . . . we used to know ol' Phyllis a million years ago. My husband played piano at a couple of Eagle Forum events. Sheesh, I can't even believe it myself.

[MargeGunderson]

17 hours ago, EAG46 said:

Maybe some former Fundamentalist Xtians can help this mostly secular Jew out.      Why are there fundamentalist churches using our stuff?!   This is in light of a certain Presidential candidate appearing at a church and the pastor giving him a tallit--a Jewish prayer shawl--to wear.   I am confused.

I can't speak to the prayer shawl specifically, but more broadly there is a segment (maybe a large one?) of fundamentalists that believe that one of the signs of the second coming is the return of Jews to Israel. This has led to fundamentalists showing support for Jews and Israel. It's a case of strange bedfellows!

[Defrauder]

Growing up my family was Lutheran and we attended  Lutheran Church every Sunday.  I was very fortunate that the pastor was very laid back and practical, kind and the message was always positive and loving - very little about hell at all, mainly about love.  The pastor was very intelligent, a college graduate and never judged anyone and always taught tolerance, forgiveness and love.  I didn't realize at the time how fortunate I was not to have grown up in some house church of Jim Bob or Gothard somewhere.  Later on as an adult I became a Catholic, through spending a year in RCIA - when an adult converts to Catholicism they are taught the teachings of the Catholic Church.  It was very similar to my Lutheran upbringing and it felt comfortable.  I again was especially fortunate that the Monsignor of the Church was also very kind and taught in a loving way.  I spent many years in the Catholic Church.  I am no longer practicing but when I look at the Duggars and some of the preachers they listen to or emulate I am shocked at how hateful and unhinged they are.  I am just reminded of how truly fortunate I have been in my life to not have been subject to such fear and hate.  It saddens me that the Duggars on TV get this platform to spread their brand of Christianity that is not representative of the entire religion and has such a hateful message.

[Aja]

On 9/17/2016 at 4:40 PM, Defrauder said:

Growing up my family was Lutheran and we attended  Lutheran Church every Sunday.  I was very fortunate that the pastor was very laid back and practical, kind and the message was always positive and loving - very little about hell at all, mainly about love.  The pastor was very intelligent, a college graduate and never judged anyone and always taught tolerance, forgiveness and love.  I didn't realize at the time how fortunate I was not to have grown up in some house church of Jim Bob or Gothard somewhere.  Later on as an adult I became a Catholic, through spending a year in RCIA - when an adult converts to Catholicism they are taught the teachings of the Catholic Church.  It was very similar to my Lutheran upbringing and it felt comfortable.  I again was especially fortunate that the Monsignor of the Church was also very kind and taught in a loving way.  I spent many years in the Catholic Church.  I am no longer practicing but when I look at the Duggars and some of the preachers they listen to or emulate I am shocked at how hateful and unhinged they are.  I am just reminded of how truly fortunate I have been in my life to not have been subject to such fear and hate.  It saddens me that the Duggars on TV get this platform to spread their brand of Christianity that is not representative of the entire religion and has such a hateful message.

I love this. 

I was talking to my mom recently about this very thing. She raised me very religiously and she still is very religious and involved in her church (but she respects the fact that I'm not.) I said "I don't remember one single time during my childhood that I was told science was wrong, or that I was justified in judging other people because they didn't go to the same church I did, or that God thinks I'm any more special than anyone else. I also clearly remember 'love thy neighbor' getting thrown around quite a little bit." She just shook her head and said "I know. I know. I don't know what's happening either."

[Defrauder]

What is it with fundies and clothing and using religion to try and justify their lack of control?   I always went to the beach in a bikini with my son when he was little and most women wore bikini's or similar suits and it was good for my son to see that men are not animals and they are expected to not act like them.   They are expected to respect women in all manners of dress.  As are women.  No one jumped anyone or got divorced because a woman was wearing a bikini or a guy didn't have a shirt on!  Fundies are proud that they can't control themselves and use religion to justify it and blame the one wearing the clothing for causing their own lack of control.   I'm recalling all of the sermons Jesus gave about hair length and clothing - NONE.  Now fundies apparently think that when you get to heaven there is a ruler there to measure hair length and a tape measure to measure skirt length and pictures are sent to God to process whether someone get's through the pearly gates or not.  We all now what happens to people who show up in heaven wearing body paint!

Edited September 20, 2016 by Defrauder

[Tabbygirl521]

In general, I tend to think that insecure or jealous people are the ones who are always worried about everyone keeping it in their pants. It's like they have unsatisfying sexual lives and maybe get obsessed about what others have that they don't. (Or imagine Got-hard, who apparently never got any that he didn't take by intimidation.) I wonder if lots of fundies have shaky-ish marriages or world views because they marry (or will marry) the first possible candidate, in haste, and so don't have deep, solid connections with their mates? I don't know if I am wording this very well. 

Also, whatever happened to "judge not, lest ye be judged"?

Edited September 20, 2016 by Tabbygirl521

[MargeGunderson]

44 minutes ago, Defrauder said:

What is it with fundies and clothing and using religion to try and justify their lack of control?   I always went to the beach in a bikini with my son when he was little and most women wore bikini's or similar suits and it was good for my son to see that men are not animals and they are expected to not act like them.   They are expected to respect women in all manners of dress.  As are women.  No one jumped anyone or got divorced because a woman was wearing a bikini or a guy didn't have a shirt on!  Fundies are proud that they can't control themselves and use religion to justify it and blame the one wearing the clothing for causing their own lack of control.   I'm recalling all of the sermons Jesus gave about hair length and clothing - NONE.  Now fundies apparently think that when you get to heaven there is a ruler there to measure hair length and a tape measure to measure skirt length and pictures are sent to God to process whether someone get's through the pearly gates or not.  We all now what happens to people who show up in heaven wearing body paint!

Defrauder, you have to mow the lawn in the bikini! That's what really gets the men hot and bothered.

[Defrauder]

12 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Defrauder, you have to mow the lawn in the bikini! That's what really gets the men hot and bothered.

And according to Michelle - be a 'teeny bopper' who didn't know any better because she was still a teen!  Yeah that's makes it worse - some adult married neighbor lusting after teen Michelle causing him to get divorced.  Good thing she's probably just imagining the whole scenario.  Way to teach your daughters Michelle!  If you are a minor and some adult lusts after you it's your fault. Great lesson.  And hide your knees children - adult men aren't even expected to control themselves around children!  

Edited September 20, 2016 by Defrauder
spelling

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Defrauder said:

What is it with fundies and clothing and using religion to try and justify their lack of control?   I always went to the beach in a bikini with my son when he was little and most women wore bikini's or similar suits and it was good for my son to see that men are not animals and they are expected to not act like them.   They are expected to respect women in all manners of dress.  As are women.  No one jumped anyone or got divorced because a woman was wearing a bikini or a guy didn't have a shirt on!  Fundies are proud that they can't control themselves and use religion to justify it and blame the one wearing the clothing for causing their own lack of control.   I'm recalling all of the sermons Jesus gave about hair length and clothing - NONE.  Now fundies apparently think that when you get to heaven there is a ruler there to measure hair length and a tape measure to measure skirt length and pictures are sent to God to process whether someone get's through the pearly gates or not.  We all now what happens to people who show up in heaven wearing body paint!

Maybe all men should just be placed on a blanket so they won't stray.

[kokapetl]

What do you see when you look at this picture?

[Vaysh]

A very sad goat?

Though goats aren't exactly known to be meek so I don't get it.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Vaysh
spelling

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 minute ago, Vaysh said:

A very sad goat?

Though goats aren't exactly known to me meek so I don't get it.

I think it's a lamb...

[Vaysh]

Quote

I think it's a lamb...

Really? Those floppy ears look kinda goaty to me. But you're probably right. The Duggs do love to paint themselves as sacrificial lambs; victims of the evil secular world that they in no way court and badger for attention and money.

[Churchhoney]

19 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

A very sad goat?

Though goats aren't exactly known to me meek so I don't get it.

I like the goat version of meekness.

I'll walk around with my head down. Kinda looking like a sheep. Nibbling on the grass. Don't seem to be paying much attention to you. .... But you mess with me. Or I even imagine that you're messing with me. Or with some little bit of food that I've got my eye on.     And  -- I'll butt your ass into the middle of next week.

Hoping for Jinger to develop this brand of meekness.

I suppose I hope in vain.

Re: the picture. Could be either lamb or goat, I think. The ears could go either way. But I think they're more like goat. And the head, too. Could go either way. I'm thinking more like goat. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for the Duggs to think somebody's a lamb -- e.g., JINGE -- and find out she's really a goat. Do let this picture be a prophecy.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

It looks like a lamb. A cute, very sad lamb.

[Jynnan tonnix]

The ears are a bit more goaty...I could be wrong about it actually being a lamb, but I'm pretty sure that's what the intent of the picture was. Shepherds, sheep, lambs, and all that Christian imagery.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

It looks like a lamb. A cute, very sad lamb.

Yeah, whatever it is, it's definitely not delighting in anything. Such a sad faced critter to illustrate a quote about delight. Not to mention -- geez is that photo oddly cropped.

[Sew Sumi]

I'm surprised that they didn't photoshop some blood on it. Come on Duggars, go all out when you post these memes! 

[kokapetl]

I thought it was some mutated eyeless animal with sharp teeth. 

[Defrauder]

On 9/20/2016 at 7:56 PM, Kokapetl said:

What do you see when you look at this picture?

Since when are the Duggars meek?  I guess they don't want to inherit the earth.  Oh well, more room for the rest of us.

[ChiCricket]

I thought goats have those creepy looking vertical eyes?

[Defrauder]

I always thought lambs were white.

[ginger90]

The meek, as in the quiet ones. It is the quiet ones we have to watch out for. How many times have there been interviews after an awful crime and the neighbor or relative says, He or she was "always so quiet" ?

[kalamac]

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-meek

[Defrauder]

I think it might be a Llama.

[EAG46]

Thanks to these idiots, a few of my friends are re-evaluating calling themselves Christians, afraid of being lumped in with them.   But they're nothing like them.  They're smarter, much more tolerant, and encourage their children to learn and grow and develop.   I have a feeling when Judgement Day comes, Hashem/God/Allah/The Cosmic Force has a nasty surprise in store for the Duggars and their friends.  

[Defrauder]

14 minutes ago, EAG46 said:

Thanks to these idiots, a few of my friends are re-evaluating calling themselves Christians, afraid of being lumped in with them.   But they're nothing like them.  They're smarter, much more tolerant, and encourage their children to learn and grow and develop.   I have a feeling when Judgement Day comes, Hashem/God/Allah/The Cosmic Force has a nasty surprise in store for the Duggars and their friends.  

That's unfortunate for your friends but I think it's important for them to remember that the Duggar brand of Christianity is just some distorted version that doesn't represent or speak for the entire religion.  Hopefully your friends won't let the Duggars define what it is that they believe.   The Duggars may have fame and a platform to advertise their beliefs but statistically wise they only represent a very tiny fraction of what the majority of Christians actually believe.  

[EAG46]

2 minutes ago, Defrauder said:

.   The Duggars may have fame and a platform to advertise their beliefs but statistically wise they only represent a very tiny fraction of what the majority of Christians actually believe.  

That's true, but unfortunately that general flavor of Christianity has gained a big platform, especially in political power.   So even logically their number is tiny, their voice is disproportionally loud.  That's true of a lot of groups, really.....always a few super-loud, super-fundie, super-annoying people mucking it up for everyone else.

[Defrauder]

2 minutes ago, EAG46 said:

That's true, but unfortunately that general flavor of Christianity has gained a big platform, especially in political power.   So even logically their number is tiny, their voice is disproportionally loud.  That's true of a lot of groups, really.....always a few super-loud, super-fundie, super-annoying people mucking it up for everyone else.

It is annoying but hopefully your friends will be able to ignore it  if they have to in order to be true to themselves and what they believe.  Or maybe they can come to this board and have fun realizing that not everyone is buying what the Duggars are trying to sell. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

4 minutes ago, Defrauder said:

That's unfortunate for your friends but I think it's important for them to remember that the Duggar brand of Christianity is just some distorted version that doesn't represent or speak for the entire religion.  Hopefully your friends won't let the Duggars define what it is that they believe.   The Duggars may have fame and a platform to advertise their beliefs but statistically wise they only represent a very tiny fraction of what the majority of Christians actually believe.  

Fortunately, they only represent a very small minority, but make no mistake that these people are screaming loud enough to have the ear of lawmakers, particularly when it pertains to choice and other reproductive rights as well as using religious freedom to not teach proper science or sex education.

Yes, the same minority what whinges about other minority groups (in particular gays and atheists) who want the status quo changed "just for them", also want the same "special treatment" with respect to instituting a theocracy and their own brand of patriarchal ideas  into law. (Notice quotes are for snark and to demonstrate hypocrisy of Christian Right Wing Nut Jobs).

[Defrauder]

44 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Fortunately, they only represent a very small minority, but make no mistake that these people are screaming loud enough to have the ear of lawmakers, particularly when it pertains to choice and other reproductive rights as well as using religious freedom to not teach proper science or sex education.

Yes, the same minority what whinges about other minority groups (in particular gays and atheists) who want the status quo changed "just for them", also want the same "special treatment" with respect to instituting a theocracy and their own brand of patriarchal ideas  into law. (Notice quotes are for snark and to demonstrate hypocrisy of Christian Right Wing Nut Jobs).

Michelle's anti-transgender robo-call comes to mind.  You're absolutely right about people like the Duggars wanting to change laws that suit their beliefs while complaining about laws being made that don't align with their beliefs as if somehow they are being persecuted  They talk and preach and try to make laws that are against gays and atheists yet cry Christian persecution when things don't go their way.  Separation of church and state is not what they believe in as they try to portray themselves as patriotic.   Add in their complete and utter lack of respect and acknowledgement of scientific facts plus their own version of biblical interpretations which are largely ignorant of actual biblical knowledge and you've got the perfect storm of religious idiocy and hypocrisy.  

[Sew Sumi]

Just a snippet of Duggar religious control. 

[Aja]

"That eternity would in their hearts"? I'm having more and more trouble understanding fundiespeak every day. And also, Duggars? #16 won't work. I am super glad I was born a girl and also so is my girlfriend. We both LOVE being girls. So your little prayer might backfire, there.

[BitterApple]

Well, Josh was glad to be a boy. Look how that worked out.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Well, Josh was glad to be a boy. Look how that worked out.

Methinks they put their emphasis on the wrong things.

Stupid obsession with sex, as usual. Fundies are people who can't handle the fact that we are animals. (...whereas I kinda love it. Makes me much happier, I'll bet. heh)

[GeeGolly]

I don't get any of those prayers. Out of context (which most prayers are for me) they make even less sense.

10. I've heard it before but really? Doormat?

11. Eternity will what in their hearts?

12. Eternal guilt, shame regret and no self forgiveness for being selfish or making mistakes or being human?

15. I get it, but don't agree.

16. So their still having problems where people pee?

[Aja]

Fundamentally, I never understood the Christian religion's aversion to sex in the first place. Based on logic (LOL), one would assume that as we are made in God's image, our bodies are AWESOME. Right? And specifically, for Gothardites/Duggars: Are you saying God's image is gross and defrauding? They celebrate machine gun-fire birthings but are ADAMANTLY, obsessively opposed to the one act that CREATES quiverfulls of Jesus soldiers (which is a system implemented, presumably, by our all-knowing and all-powerful creator, so again...seems a little Satanic to be dissing it so fervently, no?) Female boobs EXIST to FEED the quiverfulls of Jesus soldiers that they brag ceaselessly about creating, yet the very part of the body GOD created SPECIFICALLY TO FEED JESUS SOLDIERS is considered lewd, wanton and must be covered in layers of modesty panels AT ALL TIMES. Gee, if I were God, I might start to take this shit a little personally.

[Absolom]

I think #11 has a missing word "be."

[Sew Sumi]

LOL! Fill in that verb. I'll start with "fester." :D

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Aja said:

Fundamentally, I never understood the Christian religion's aversion to sex in the first place. Based on logic (LOL), one would assume that as we are made in God's image, our bodies are AWESOME. Right? And specifically, for Gothardites/Duggars: Are you saying God's image is gross and defrauding? They celebrate machine gun-fire birthings but are ADAMANTLY, obsessively opposed to the one act that CREATES quiverfulls of Jesus soldiers (which is a system implemented, presumably, by our all-knowing and all-powerful creator, so again...seems a little Satanic to be dissing it so fervently, no?) Female boobs EXIST to FEED the quiverfulls of Jesus soldiers that they brag ceaselessly about creating, yet the very part of the body GOD created SPECIFICALLY TO FEED JESUS SOLDIERS is considered lewd, wanton and must be covered in layers of modesty panels AT ALL TIMES. Gee, if I were God, I might start to take this shit a little personally.

Well, I think this brand of Christianity, at least, is created in the image of the power-mad. They made a God who's as paranoid and greedy to run everything as they are, so he created everything we've got as a test -

- If we get interested in sex or like using our brains or appreciate earthly beauty or believe that fossils are real so creationism isn't or have any positive reaction to stuff he put here, like rhythms and dancing or whatever, then according to them we're putting that stuff ABOVE HIM. And just like Jim Bob, God can't stand the thought that anybody likes or believes anybody or anything except him. He made a lot of stuff that's good and then tells us that we must not like it or we're cheating him and that all that good stuff he made is just there to test our loyalty to him as being above all and the be-all end-all BIG KAHUNA.

It's God in the shape of a petty petty petty insecure childish tyrant. And it's incredibly stupid, if you ask me, for anybody to imagine that the God of this entire universe would behave in such a childish fashion. A God of the whole universe who's just like Jim Bob and Michelle? Bullshit, I say.

[tabloidlover]

6 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Well, Josh was glad to be a boy. Look how that worked out.

Touche'!!!

[LilJen]

On 10/4/2016 at 5:46 PM, Aja said:

Fundamentally, I never understood the Christian religion's aversion to sex in the first place. Based on logic (LOL), one would assume that as we are made in God's image, our bodies are AWESOME. Right? And specifically, for Gothardites/Duggars: Are you saying God's image is gross and defrauding? They celebrate machine gun-fire birthings but are ADAMANTLY, obsessively opposed to the one act that CREATES quiverfulls of Jesus soldiers (which is a system implemented, presumably, by our all-knowing and all-powerful creator, so again...seems a little Satanic to be dissing it so fervently, no?) Female boobs EXIST to FEED the quiverfulls of Jesus soldiers that they brag ceaselessly about creating, yet the very part of the body GOD created SPECIFICALLY TO FEED JESUS SOLDIERS is considered lewd, wanton and must be covered in layers of modesty panels AT ALL TIMES. Gee, if I were God, I might start to take this shit a little personally.

From what I've heard and read, Judaism in general has been more comfortable with the body and sex. While Christianity was still young, an offshoot of Greek pagan religion called Gnosticism was influencing some of the early Christians. Gnostics emphasized a mega-gap between what is spiritual/spirit and what is earthly/body. This led some Christians to take on strong anti-body, anti-sex views and an unhealthy idea that it *only* that which is spiritual is good or worthwhile or blessed. So: sex bad, bodily things bad, "spiritual things" good (God is not a bodily being and is holy--uh, disregarding that God came to earth in the form of a human being according to orthodox Christian doctrine--but Gnostics held that Jesus only *appeared* to be human--thus, all embodied things must be unholy) . The view has tended to pervade a lot of American Christianity and has overflowed into views on sex (bad, unholy, unspiritual, dontchaknow).

Christians who truly follow in the Judaistic tradition should be no more uncomfortable with their bodies than the average Jew :)

[questionfear]

18 hours ago, LilJen said:

From what I've heard and read, Judaism in general has been more comfortable with the body and sex. While Christianity was still young, an offshoot of Greek pagan religion called Gnosticism was influencing some of the early Christians. Gnostics emphasized a mega-gap between what is spiritual/spirit and what is earthly/body. This led some Christians to take on strong anti-body, anti-sex views and an unhealthy idea that it *only* that which is spiritual is good or worthwhile or blessed. So: sex bad, bodily things bad, "spiritual things" good (God is not a bodily being and is holy--uh, disregarding that God came to earth in the form of a human being according to orthodox Christian doctrine--but Gnostics held that Jesus only *appeared* to be human--thus, all embodied things must be unholy) . The view has tended to pervade a lot of American Christianity and has overflowed into views on sex (bad, unholy, unspiritual, dontchaknow).

Christians who truly follow in the Judaistic tradition should be no more uncomfortable with their bodies than the average Jew :)

Judaism is pretty liberal, and very very into sex if you read the torah and talmud (interpretations of the torah). It's supposed to be extra good to have sex on shabbat, iirc. Granted, they never discussed these things in hebrew school, so i might be a bit fuzzy on the details. But yes, it's a very sex and body positive religion. 

Also, we love home cooking, I think most jewish grandmothers would collapse at the sight of the average duggar diet. 

[Rabbittron]

1 hour ago, questionfear said:

Judaism is pretty liberal, and very very into sex if you read the torah and talmud (interpretations of the torah). It's supposed to be extra good to have sex on shabbat, iirc. Granted, they never discussed these things in hebrew school, so i might be a bit fuzzy on the details. But yes, it's a very sex and body positive religion. 

Also, we love home cooking, I think most jewish grandmothers would collapse at the sight of the average duggar diet. 

It is a mitzvah to have sex on the sabbath. (Good thing)

[questionfear]

1 hour ago, Rabbittron said:

It is a mitzvah to have sex on the sabbath. (Good thing)

I thought it was a mitzvah, but wasn't positive, so didn't want to be definitive. Thanks for confirming!