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S06.E05: Bits and Pieces

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in Elementary [V]

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)

I had trouble following this one (I kept dozing off). Did one of the victims actually have an immunity to bird flu from which a vaccine for all flu strains could be derived? Or was that just speculation? And was it the motive for killing him? I thought the killer was found with his spleen in her fridge, no? If so, does that spleen languish in an evidence fridge, or might it eventually be used to create a vaccine? Or did I sleep through a reveal that he wasn't really immune, so the fate of his spleen is moot?

 

Wouldn't the AAers at the meeting have called out the body dump guy for trying to control someone else's sobriety even though he sort of owned that he shouldn't be doing it?

 

 

22 MINUTES AGO, WRITING WRONGS SAID:

Why does Joan only dress in suits now? I used to like her style.

 I know. I miss the abundance of prints and color block designs. It can't be budget, can it? They should have a bigger budget now than at the beginning of the series, right? Or no?
 

Edited by shapeshifter
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meira.hand

meira.hand

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I had trouble following this one (I kept dozing off). Did one of the victims actually have an immunity to bird flu from which a vaccine for all flu strains could be derived? Or was that just speculation? And was it the motive for killing him? I thought the killer was found with his spleen in her fridge, no? If so, does that spleen languish in an evidence fridge, or might it eventually be used to create a vaccine? Or did I sleep through a reveal that he wasn't really immune, so the fate of his spleen is moot?

The original victim (owner of the head in the bag:) did have immunity and it was indeed the motive for killing him. They did not pursue the issue of of continued research after solving the murder.

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Xantar

Xantar

The most impressive aspect of this episode was the scene where Sherlock was running while talking to Joan. Johnny Lee Miller is in impressive physical shape to be able to perform dialogue while running on a treadmill (and they must have done multiple takes). 

I was cringing during the beginning of the episode at all the HIPAA violations. I couldn't understand why the doctor's office was so ready to share information with both Sherlock and then Joan and Marcus.

So I guess the recurring murderer guy is getting Sherlock to investigate his victim so that he can be alerted if any leads turn up. At least he's not as much of a downer so far as Shinwell.

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Trey

Trey

16 minutes ago, Xantar said:

So I guess the recurring murderer guy is getting Sherlock to investigate his victim so that he can be alerted if any leads turn up. At least he's not as much of a downer so far as Shinwell.

I got the impression that Michael had killed the girl simply to provide Sherlock with a case to work on to keep him from relapsing.  I don't think he's a hit man or serial killer after all, but he seems obsessed with Sherlock and is pretty much Sherlock's stalker.

I doubt they could legally have used the victim's spleen for research since he was murdered to get it.  A waste of a golden opportunity for the world, of course, but we have to keep things legal.

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Gregg247

Gregg247

I love this show, but this episode is a perfect example of what can go wrong when the writers get a little too cutesy with the plot twists.  They set up a really good conundrum with "How could the dead guy not be infected with an incurable disease yet the people who received his organs did get it?", only to get stuck for a solution themselves and go with the whole, "Oh, he's the only guy in the world who'd built up an immunity to it" routine.  Weak.  

I got to the end of the episode and realized that we didn't really have any suspects.  When Joan pointed out the lab lady we'd met earlier, I had no idea who she was talking about.  Apparently, the "lab lady" was actually some brilliant scientist who'd written extensively about this particular disease and just so happened to have stumbled onto this guy's condition in the course of her duties (did they say she worked for some state government department?).  But, she ALSO had her own practice, where she'd hidden the dead guy's spleen.

Lots of coincidences and a once-in-a-generation patient who runs into the wrong greedy doctor.

Also, I don't like Sherlock's weirdo stalker.  That conversation in the brownstone was so awkward it had me squirming in my chair, and I wasn't even there!

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meira.hand

meira.hand

2 hours ago, Xantar said:

The most impressive aspect of this episode was the scene where Sherlock was running while talking to Joan. Johnny Lee Miller is in impressive physical shape to be able to perform dialogue while running on a treadmill (and they must have done multiple takes). 

Well, he is a marathon runner in real life, so I guess they decided to take advantage of his abilities :)

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
3 hours ago, Trey said:

I got the impression that Michael had killed the girl simply to provide Sherlock with a case to work on to keep him from relapsing.  I don't think he's a hit man or serial killer after all, but he seems obsessed with Sherlock and is pretty much Sherlock's stalker.

Yes. I thought this too after this episode. But maybe there will be some other twist.

 

1 hour ago, Gregg247 said:

Also, I don't like Sherlock's weirdo stalker.  That conversation in the brownstone was so awkward it had me squirming in my chair, and I wasn't even there!

Jonny Lee Miller perfectly conveyed the discomfort we would all feel with someone from a Whatever's Anonymous meeting showing up at the door of our unlisted address. I wonder if Sherlock's post-concussion disorder will be blamed for him not immediately realizing something is wrong with this guy and checking him out.

 

 

1 HOUR AGO, GREGG247 SAID:

I love this show, but this episode is a perfect example of what can go wrong when the writers get a little too cutesy with the plot twists. They set up a really good conundrum with "How could the dead guy not be infected with an incurable disease yet the people who received his organs did get it?", only to get stuck for a solution themselves and go with the whole, "Oh, he's the only guy in the world who'd built up an immunity to it" routine. Weak. 

3 HOURS AGO, TREY SAID:

doubt they could legally have used the victim's spleen for research since he was murdered to get it. A waste of a golden opportunity for the world, of course, but we have to keep things legal.

This episode really needed a science editor or at least someone who occasionally reads medical news in the New York Times. If Sherlock had all his faculties, this issue would not have been glossed over. I hope the brain damage plot wasn't introduced just to give the writers a break from having to write intellectual dialogue.

Edited by shapeshifter
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illdoc

illdoc

2 hours ago, Gregg247 said:

"How could the dead guy not be infected with an incurable disease yet the people who received his organs did get it?",

Which gave rise to "Schroedinger's Disease" (flu?..argh! can't remember what he called it)!!!

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

So this is another in the line of Elementary being way too convoluted for its own good. I really had no idea where this was going, and where it ended up seemed more like a lot of coincidences and contrivances than an exciting mystery. Also, why in the world didnt the scientist lady just wait for the guy to die naturally? Yeah, getting the vaccine is important, but its not like a world ending pandemic is upon them, or the person is a baby with years ahead. Just keep track of the guy, wait until he kicks the bucket, and then grab his organs! No murders needed! 

So the guy is some kind of loony fan/stalker who thinks that Sherlock needs his cases to stay sober, so he killed a woman to give him a case to work? Because, with the brain damage, Joan's possible adoption, and the usual array of super complicated murders he solves, the guy just doesn't have enough drama in his life. 

You can really tell Johnny runs a lot in his real life, he has a runners body and you can tell on the treadmill this is something he has a lot of practice on. 

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seacliffsal

seacliffsal

I have been enjoying the new season, and after being confused at the beginning of the episode I actually enjoyed this one as well.  I was fascinated by the trade in body parts which I totally buy in to.  I also liked that the 'villain' was hidden until the end (well, hidden in plain sight).  

Between last week's episode and this one I have developed a new appreciation for Jonny Lee Miller's physicality...

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Loandbehold

Loandbehold

Given that he had an immunity to a disease w/ a previously 100% mortality rate, and was a marathon runner (I believe that was mentioned) in his 30s or early 40s, he could have lived for decades. Scientist lady didn't want to take the chance that she would live long enough to make use of his organs, not to mention that he might move away from NY at some point.

When Sherlock first brought up that this guy may be a carrier, Joan shot him down right away and I was confused. Why is it impossible for someone to be immune to a disease? It may be rare, but it shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for doctor or scientist. Joan's usually much better than that. I was a little disappointed.

This episode did have more than its share of twists and turns, with so many bad people who had reasons to do some bad things, but, it turned out they had different reasons for not committing murder. By the end, I was thinking that we were going to circle back to the Broadway producer as the culprit.

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Trey

Trey

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But maybe there will be some other twist.

Quite likely there will be another twist or two but I enjoy watching the plotline unfold so we can figure out what's going on.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

51 minutes ago, Loandbehold said:

When Sherlock first brought up that this guy may be a carrier, Joan shot him down right away and I was confused. Why is it impossible for someone to be immune to a disease? It may be rare, but it shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for doctor or scientist. Joan's usually much better than that. I was a little disappointed.

Joan's still good. Like I complained about upthread, the science-y dialogue for this episode was atrociously illogical.

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Driad

Driad

Aha, we have a Watsonian vs. Doylist discussion.  This arose from discussions of Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories.  Some participants may take a Watsonian perspective (an in-universe perspective, from the standpoint of the text) or a Doylist perspective (outside the story's universe, from the standpoint of the writer).
https://fanlore.org/wiki/Watsonian_vs._Doylist
 

2 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Joan's usually much better than that. I was a little disappointed.

is a Watsonian perspective, and 

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

the science-y dialogue for this episode was atrociously illogical

is Doylist.

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MissLucas

MissLucas

(edited)

Yep, looks like Holmes got a stalker - too bad. I thought a hit man plot had more potential.

I enjoy Watson's well-tailored suits but it's not true that she wears nothing else. This episode we saw her wearing yet another top with animal prints and last episode she wore a fantastic dress. (But those atrocious booties and mules have no right to be on this show.)

It was nice to see a bit more of Bell being a competent cop. And Aidan Quinn finally got some good material to work with. While the plot was too convoluted (nothing unusual for this show) all the writing dealing with Holmes' injury/recovery was excellent. Watson trying to explain to Holmes what Lestrade's real beef was and Lestrade's tough stance not letting Holmes off the hook with a simple apology were both great scenes. And Watson waking up Holmes was subtly heartbreaking.

(The germphobe part of me appreciated Watson's face when she asked about how long the chickens had been out of the fridge and the cut to the next scene with Holmes carefully dumping them and then washing his hands.)

Edited by MissLucas
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Moxie Cat

Moxie Cat

8 hours ago, Gregg247 said:

 

I love this show, but this episode is a perfect example of what can go wrong when the writers get a little too cutesy with the plot twists. 

 

Yes, this was the first episode this season where I had trouble following what was going on. I have a feeling the writers knew it too, because Sherlock's lengthy chicken sticker scene re-explained everything!

I was also confused about the critic. So she was in a car crash only 2 weeks before being murdered, and that's when she got the graft? The timeline backstory with the teacher and the two victims got really muddled for me.

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Lestrade's tough stance not letting Holmes off the hook

Aiden Quinn's captain is not Lestrade. Didn't we see Lestrade in the England-set episode(s?) in season 1 or 2?

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MisterGlass

MisterGlass

We did see Lestrade as played by Sean Pertwee starting in Season 2.  Quinn plays Gregson.

I agree the plot was convoluted and that the stalker is not clicking with me as yet.

The character moments were all good.  This show has always been good at bringing out humanity in a character like Holmes.  Other versions have a tendency to make him out as super- or sub- human.  I've watched and enjoyed many versions of the character, but this is the one that succeeds most at showing him as a person rather than just a detective.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Yeah, this was one of the least interesting and more convoluted cases of the season.  I get the basic idea, but it was kind of boring, and even though I actually didn't predict the killer, it was mainly because no one in this story was worth remembering.

I do like how the show isn't afraid for Sherlock to face consequences, and they're having Gregson understandably upset about Sherlock keeping his medical condition hidden from him.  Obviously, I doubt it will have a massively lasting impact, but it is nice none the less.

Also loved the shot of Sherlock tossing out the chicken, after Joan asked him how long he had it out.  It's the little things that keep making me come back and believe this show is a step above most procedurals, even if the cases aren't the greatest.

That said, we're five episodes in now and there has been no Clyde sighting.  Rectify this now, show!

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jhlipton

jhlipton

Lestrade is the guy we saw in England from a Doylist perspective (The person is the name).  Lestrade is Gregson from a Watsonian perspective (the person is the character).

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johntfs

johntfs

31 minutes ago, Driad said:

Nothing about adoption this week.  I'm hoping Joan was just working on a case.

Figure that's going to be a bit of a slow boil.  Joan is still Joan.  She still checks things out pretty thoroughly before jumping into something.  Personally, I think it'd be smarter for her/them to get a foster kid before going the adoption route.

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possibilities

possibilities

A foster placement through normal channels would probably never be approved for this household, but they could take in a runaway/homeless kid Sherlock finds on the street, informally. I'd actually find that way more interesting because that's a story that's likely to have plenty of the kind of intrigue that this show travels in anyway.

In fact, I can see Sherlock threatening to do just that if he gets wind that Joan wants to become a parent.

But I was glad the subject wasn't raised at all this week, and if they drop i completely I'll be even happier. They do have a tendency to dangle plot points and then pick them up just when you think they've forgotten, though. So it probably will come back around.

I agree we need more Clyde sitings. He can't be too expensive, can he? They get lots of guest stars who I imagine cost plenty. So I'm not accepting budget cuts as an excuse to deprive us of he show's most charismatic recurring character.

Selling body parts is illegal, right? So the graft was an under the table operation?

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Charlesman

Charlesman

(edited)
5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Selling body parts is illegal, right? So the graft was an under the table operation?

No, I mean, selling your own organs is a crime, but, if the deceased was an organ donor, and was collected according to normal organ donation procedures, their skin could be used in a graft. Those organs I think can be "sold" by middleman brokers (or, certain fees can be charged) along the chain from donor to recipient. 

The shady bald bearded guy, though, was getting tips to bodies that weren't organ donors, but, also, wouldn't be missed by family, and forged their organ donor forms. That was the under-the-table part. After "laundering" the body through a few channels, the eventual recipients thought they were legit.

Edited by Charlesman
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MisterGlass

MisterGlass

21 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Lestrade is the guy we saw in England from a Doylist perspective (The person is the name).  Lestrade is Gregson from a Watsonian perspective (the person is the character).

Lestrade and Gregson both exist as separate characters in the stories.  I think from either perspective they would be considered distinct.

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

A foster placement through normal channels would probably never be approved for this household, but they could take in a runaway/homeless kid Sherlock finds on the street, informally.

There were children in the Baker Street Irregulars.  Holmes has had a few young informants on this series but I don't think any of them were children.

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possibilities

possibilities

I thought normal (legal) organ donation was barred from distributing organs to the highest bidder or otherwise selling the parts. There's a whole procedure for deciding who gets the organs, etc.

Is it really true that you can donate them to a legal for-profit entity that will sell them on the legal market?

I should probably go do some research instead of just gasping in shock, but I seriously thought that was a rule. Hmmn.

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juliet73

juliet73

I didn't care for this episode at all. However,  I was impressed with JLM running on the treadmill barefoot. I've tried it a few times and couldn't handle it.

I don't like this Michael character. Even if Sherlock can't sense there is something off about this guy because of his concussion issue,  I would think Joan could. Have they met? I can't remember. 

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Charlesman

Charlesman

About 70% of this episode reminded me of an Original Flavor Law And Order where a young boy died of 'breast cancer' when the bone he was donated for leg surgery came from an elderly woman who died of cancer, rather than the healthy donor he thought he was getting. Same body farm/broker/underhanded deal things going on. Not until the Bird Flu Immune Spleen thing popped up was it much different.

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basil

basil

(edited)
Quote

I love the way this show does quiet callbacks to previous stuff.  The guy at the front was in the costume of The Midnight Ranger.

Nice catch. What I found funny was that the guy in the Midnight Ranger suit was Tyler Hanes, a Broadway actor/dancer. While Hanes never was in Spiderman, his complaint as he came off the stage "You've got to do something about those wires, or get a new Ranger. I almost collided with Diedritch out there", was pretty obvious reference to Spiderman, Turn Out the Dark and its multiple injuries, two of them aerial accidents. Even the fictional show's title was similar: Midnight Ranger: It's Always Midnight. Two other Broadway performers were in this, Lynne Wintersteller (Victoria, a murder victim, and Brian Stokes Mitchell, operator/owner of the "human chop shop".

Quote

 

I didn't care for this episode at all. However,  I was impressed with JLM running on the treadmill barefoot. I've tried it a few times and couldn't handle it.

I don't like this Michael character. Even if Sherlock can't sense there is something off about this guy because of his concussion issue,  I would think Joan could. Have they met? I can't remember.

 

 Joan has not met him, but wants to. "It would be nice to put a face to the name". She was talking to Sherlock when Michael showed up at their brownstone. I thought it was odd that she didn't go to the door with Sherlock, as they were not expecting anyone.

Edited by basil
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jhlipton

jhlipton

4 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

Lestrade and Gregson both exist as separate characters in the stories.  I think from either perspective they would be considered distinct.

I had forgotten Gregson from the canon/  Thanks.

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basil

basil

Quote

But where did Sherlock get the head? 

From the "human chop shop", the for-profit human tissue/organ place.
 

Quote

And why was the man decapitated?

I...don't know the answer to that question.

Quote

Schrodinger’s bird flu made me laugh.

Me too. This show didn't have enough humor for my taste.

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Charlesman

Charlesman

(edited)
46 minutes ago, PaulaO said:

And why was the man decapitated?

 

The "chop shop" was going to sell the head to a dental school, for students to practice drilling cavities, putting on braces, etc. 

Edited by Charlesman
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basil

basil

Quote

The "chop shop" was going to sell the head to a dental school, for students to practice drilling cavities, putting on braces, etc. 

That's right! Between the two of us, we have it all covered!

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illdoc

illdoc

12 hours ago, Charlesman said:

Original Flavor Law And Order where a young boy died of 'breast cancer' when the bone he was donated for leg surgery came from an elderly woman who died of cancer,

Ovarian cancer. Men can get breast cancer, so it wouldn't be that odd but ovarian cancer would be.

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Kathira

Kathira

12 hours ago, Charlesman said:

About 70% of this episode reminded me of an Original Flavor Law And Order where a young boy died of 'breast cancer' when the bone he was donated for leg surgery came from an elderly woman who died of cancer, rather than the healthy donor he thought he was getting. Same body farm/broker/underhanded deal things going on. Not until the Bird Flu Immune Spleen thing popped up was it much different.

 

27 minutes ago, illdoc said:

Ovarian cancer. Men can get breast cancer, so it wouldn't be that odd but ovarian cancer would be.

There was an episode of Bones like that, too. A young girl got a rare "old-people" cancer from a bone transplant. The case involved the misdeeds of funeral parlors, making it one of their "ripped from the headlines" cases - http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/10/18/7-funeral-home-directors-plead-guilty-to-selling-body-parts.html Based on the dates, I think Bones got there first with the topic. It was a sad episode as they weren't able to save the girl. There have been several real-life cases of body-part selling over the years, so apparently, it's a thing.

I liked the episode overall and think that killer-Michael trying to get Homes's attention is super creepy. 

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Charlesman

Charlesman

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought normal (legal) organ donation was barred from distributing organs to the highest bidder or otherwise selling the parts. There's a whole procedure for deciding who gets the organs, etc.

Is it really true that you can donate them to a legal for-profit entity that will sell them on the legal market?

I should probably go do some research instead of just gasping in shock, but I seriously thought that was a rule. Hmmn.

 

I don't think you can sell vital organs... heart, liver, lungs, etc... to the highest bidder.

But the rest of the "spare parts" can be sold. Here's an article about it from Reuters.

 

I'm not sure about non-vital, but transplantable, tissue. For example, a friend of mine in high school tore up his knee in a game. He had to have it reconstructed, and the surgery happened pretty quickly, the doctors used a ligament from a cadaver to replace the one he destroyed. I assume they didn't wait around for someone to die in a motorcycle accident, that the hospital somehow arranged for an acceptable ligament to be available. I'm sure that non-vital parts can just be kept in deep freeze in a tissue bank somewhere and sent out when needed. A body-parts Home Depot. I'm sure there are costs and fees associated with that, and someone is earning a living from it. Not sure if it's exactly "for profit", but, there's money changing hands.

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paigow

paigow

21 hours ago, Charlesman said:

About 70% of this episode reminded me of an Original Flavor Law And Order where a young boy died of 'breast cancer' when the bone he was donated for leg surgery came from an elderly woman who died of cancer, rather than the healthy donor he thought he was getting.

The other Law & Order episode about organ transplants was the rich guy buying an illegal kidney for his daughter. The surgeon kidnapped a homeless man (the shelter had medical records), removed the kidney, closed the incision, dumped the guy on a park bench....

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Nessie

Nessie

On 5/31/2018 at 2:59 PM, Charlesman said:

 

I don't think you can sell vital organs... heart, liver, lungs, etc... to the highest bidder.

But the rest of the "spare parts" can be sold. Here's an article about it from Reuters.

 

I'm not sure about non-vital, but transplantable, tissue. For example, a friend of mine in high school tore up his knee in a game. He had to have it reconstructed, and the surgery happened pretty quickly, the doctors used a ligament from a cadaver to replace the one he destroyed. I assume they didn't wait around for someone to die in a motorcycle accident, that the hospital somehow arranged for an acceptable ligament to be available. I'm sure that non-vital parts can just be kept in deep freeze in a tissue bank somewhere and sent out when needed. A body-parts Home Depot. I'm sure there are costs and fees associated with that, and someone is earning a living from it. Not sure if it's exactly "for profit", but, there's money changing hands.

Yep.  A quick google search of "living tissue banks" turned up over 4 million results (not all relevant, of course).  One of the very relevant ones though is LifeNet in Virginia Beach, a neighboring city to where I live, and one of my co-workers regularly takes groups of high school students on field trips there.

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Loandbehold

Loandbehold

16 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

That plot seems to have made the rounds, because I remember there was an episode of House where organ donation recipients were getting cancer.

I remember an episode of Scrubs where three patients died after receiving organ transplants from a donor who it turned out had rabies. 

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