S03.E19: The Fanatical

[The Crazed Spruce]

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When a disciple of Coville's escapes from what's left of his cult, she gives Kara and James a journal that could hold the key to saving Sam; someone threatens to expose James if he doesn't do what is asked of him.

[statsgirl]

Thank you, Tonya, for explaining why it's a bad idea to out oneself as a vigilante.  Arrow EPs, are you listening

I'll take this as the Arrowverse's Black Lives Matter episode.  (Dodged that bullet)

Kara, get over yourself.  Olivia didn't turn evil because you had a moment of vulnerability.

ETA:  the knots this show turns itself into to avoid J'onn going into the field and saving everything....

Edited May 22, 2018 by statsgirl

[KirkB]

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Kara, get over yourself.  Olivia didn't turn evil because you had a moment of vulnerability.

I like Kara, I really do, but this season she does seem to more under the impression the world revolves around her. I guess it kind of comes with the territory of being a nearly indestructible uber-being. And again she's telling Lena what to do.

James got shot a lot. If his mask comes off that easily, how has he not been unmasked before now?

Was there anyone surprised when Coville showed up at the end?

[Writing Wrongs]

Between the Ruby/Alex crap and Jon/Daddy crap, I only have to watch about 20 minutes of an episode now. Yay!

Oh and I also had to ff Mechad's Emmy consideration scene.

This show used to be so fun.

[UNOSEZ]

4 minutes ago, KirkB said:

I like Kara, I really do, but this season she does seem to more under the impression the world revolves around her. I guess it kind of comes with the territory of being a nearly indestructible uber-being. And again she's telling Lena what to do.

James got shot a lot. If his mask comes off that easily, how has he not been unmasked before now?

Was there anyone surprised when Coville showed up at the end?

Yeah this is like 3 weeks in a row that Kara has been kind of insufferable... It was nice to see James and Kara speak again... Tanya seemed cool.. If she randomly pops up again I'm cool with that.. Ruby was appropriately annoyed... It was more Alex being overbearing than anything... Mon-el was useful and charming ( my fave kind of Mon-el)  tho he's now going on A space date with Kara next week so blegh... Lena once again came with the verbal smack down... And I thought it got thru to Kara... Especially when Lena told her in so many words it isn't all about Supergirl... But then she made Olivia going nuts all about her... And seriously show in an episode where a black woman is chased around.. Kidnapped and forced to do something she doesn't want to... A black man is shot at... Accosted by the cops and blackmailed... We really needed it to be wrapped up by having the lil white girl who caused all those problems ( because she was "lost")  being coddled and cradled by our hero while she sobbed uncontrollably and the two actual victims just stood off in the background... Smh

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, KirkB said:

James got shot a lot. If his mask comes off that easily, how has he not been unmasked before now?

Or why James let himself be shot in the head ?  Seriously, WTF was that ?

So. Much. Ruby.   Just what this show needed -- more mopey pre-teens. </sarcasm>

[tennisgurl]

Wow, James actually got to do stuff! Maybe they finally noticed that he had hardly gotten to do anything in ages, despite being a media CEO and a superhero? Anyway, it was nice to see him have a real plot, and even talk to Kara again. The whole thing about him dealing with being a black superhero wasn't badly done, although it did seem like the writers had just seen Black Lightning, saw how well they melded racial issues and superheros, and decided they wanted a piece of that action? Oh well, it was pretty well done, and its certainly better than when the writers pat themselves on the back for making an obvious villain say they want to Make Something Great Again and act like they're amazing commentators on modern life. Or be like The Flash and never mention race hardly ever, even when it would make sense. I thought it was well acted, believable, and a good message. 

I liked them going back to the cult, and to Coville again. I like him a lot, even if this weeks version of the Cult wasn't as interesting as the last time. 

Kara did at least try to reach out to Lena, and be supportive towards James, but she has really been pretty insufferable the last few weeks. Ordering Lena around, acting like she is in control of everything, its not a good look on her. I think being an alien superbeing is finally starting to go to her head. 

Mon-El undercover as a dork was kind of cute, I admit it. There was way too much Ruby in this episode though. The only scenes I really liked with her was her scene with M'yrnn, and when she told Alex that she was worried about becoming a murder alien. Really, I just do not care about her, or Alex getting to be at being a mom. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by tennisgurl

[CloudySky]

For a moment I thought the stone's effect was turning Supergirl into a world killer and I got super excited because remember the awesome red kryptonite episode? Too bad it was just a plot device to make Mon-El the designated tag along.

Seems like James gets A Very Special Episode once a season. Too bad they can't just integrate him into the plot the other 20+ episodes.

Supergirl is being so annoying, I have to believe it's leading up to something...Too bad it's making me heavily dislike our heroine.

Also too bad that in a show called Supergirl, it's Guardian and Mon-El to the rescue.

Also also too bad that Alex is apparently playing mom for the rest of the season instead of kicking ass.

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, tennisgurl said:

Wow, James actually got to do stuff! Maybe they finally noticed that he had hardly gotten to do anything in ages, despite being a media CEO and a superhero? Anyway, it was nice to see him have a real plot, and even talk to Kara again. The thing thing about him dealing with being a black superhero wasn't badly done, although it did seem like the writers had just seen Black Lightning, saw how well they melded racial issues and superheros, and decided they wanted a piece of that action? Oh well, it was pretty well done, and its certainly better than when the writers pat themselves on the back for making an obvious villain say they want to Make Something Great Again and act like they're amazing commentators on modern life. Or as the Flash basically never acknowledges that race is a thing that exists, at least not in any remotely meaningful way. 

At the very least, even if the scene felt like it was blatant in its message, they handled it well. The Flash and Arrow haven't handled their "very special moments" as smoothly. I do think that they have been giving Mehcad some very good material, and it's about damn time. I loved his scene with Lena, explaining about his fears with exposing his identity. I can't find myself to nitpick it, in all honesty, because it truly is an important message to tell, and the right writers actually handled it perfectly here. I expect so little of the Arrowverse that it's nice when they can deliver on some strong moments. I've had my opinions about James as Guardian, but for once, I think they truly incorporated him well. Well, they can always do better, but at least they put in the effort. I just wish they did this more often.

The cult stuff is good when brought on sporadically. I was ok with it being the plot of the week.

Kara has truly been insufferable lately as Supergirl. This IS leading to her learning a lesson at the end, right? Because the show has been blatant in making sure the audience sees Kara's superiority complex and how Lena's right. I can't imagine this leading to Lena apologizing; at least Kara's had to make the effort every time. 

So, it's the return of "Mike", who did make me chuckle. They actually have found a better balance with Mon-El, but I gotta admit, he's still great when he's allowed to be funny.

I am not speaking about the Ruby/Myr'nn stuff because...meh. I like J'onn getting a plot (I do like family stories) and I was ok with Ruby this week, but neither story was necessary. It also has seriously sidelined Alex, and it's a pattern all season. It's like J'onn getting sidelined all of last season, but not even for his own plot! Also, I see they relegated Winn into the background again. Oh well; it was nice to see Winn in a plot while it lasted.

[UNOSEZ]

15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

. Or be like The Flash and never mention race hardly ever, even when it would make sense. 

Seriously... Barry Allen is a white guy raised by a black cop in a predominantly white city it seems And is in love and married to a black woman... He will have black children(at some point maybe soon)  and his best friend is a Latino dude.. And yet the flash has not even pretended to try to broach it... Its odd.. I mean maybe they figure they'd mess it up... But I mean you gotta try right 

[tennisgurl]

3 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Seriously... Barry Allen is a white guy raised by a black cop in a predominantly white city it seems

I've always thought it was a missed opportunity to never do anything with the fact that Barry is a white child adopted by a black family, or he and Iris being in an interracial marriage. It doesn't have to be a whole big thing or a Very Special Episode, but it could lead to some good character stuff, and its just the kind of thing that would probably come up at some point in the real world. It would allow the show to deal with some real world issues, in a way thats organic to the characters. 

But, they never really went there, and I doubt they ever will at this point. 

[KirkB]

46 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I am not speaking about the Ruby/Myr'nn stuff because...meh. I like J'onn getting a plot (I do like family stories) and I was ok with Ruby this week, but neither story was necessary. It also has seriously sidelined Alex, and it's a pattern all season. It's like J'onn getting sidelined all of last season, but not even for his own plot! Also, I see they relegated Winn into the background again. Oh well; it was nice to see Winn in a plot while it lasted.

It's funny, actually. I thought the Ruby/Myr'nn scenes were the only ones where she didn't bug me. Her easy acceptance of his being from Mars and the simple joy he got from playing the game with her.

On the other hand, I'm not too enthused with the idea of Alex being sidelined on Ruby-sitting duty. I got the out of the blue "I want to be a mom" stuff was an easy excuse for them breaking up her and Maggie but I am really hoping everyone is wrong about her getting Ruby and that she and Sam are going to leave at the end of the season.

[VCRTracking]

Mechad Brooks killed it in this episode and that scene.

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

Seriously... Barry Allen is a white guy raised by a black cop in a predominantly white city it seems And is in love and married to a black woman... He will have black children(at some point maybe soon)  and his best friend is a Latino dude.. And yet the flash has not even pretended to try to broach it... Its odd.. I mean maybe they figure they'd mess it up... But I mean you gotta try right 

 

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I've always thought it was a missed opportunity to never do anything with the fact that Barry is a white child adopted by a black family, or he and Iris being in an interracial marriage. It doesn't have to be a whole big thing or a Very Special Episode, but it could lead to some good character stuff, and its just the kind of thing that would probably come up at some point in the real world. It would allow the show to deal with some real world issues, in a way thats organic to the characters. 

But, they never really went there, and I doubt they ever will at this point. 

I remember there were some short lived sitcoms in the 90s where the main character was a white guy who gets a job at a predominantly African American workplace and these shows got really murdered by critics. They were accused of perpetuating stereotypes, having a white character be the audience surrogate and treating African Americans as "the other" etc. Maybe these accusations were valid and the jokes hacky in that "White guys do this while black guys do this!" but I think the liberal mindset of the time and continues to be  the old Stephen Colbert Show bit of "I don't see color!" and "Everybody's the same!" and these shows were all about discussing cultural differences and race relations which makes "progressive" white people uncomfortable.

Edited May 22, 2018 by VCRTracking

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So. Much. Ruby.   Just what this show needed -- more mopey pre-teens. </sarcasm>

She's reaching Dawn Summers levels of annoying.

(I don't know why they haven't merged my posts! Sorry guys!)

Edited May 22, 2018 by VCRTracking

[mommalib]

Mechad was incredible in this episode. He definitely needs to be given more opportunities to shine like this.  I am not liking Kara these days at all, she's way too self absorbed.  And I still don't care for Mon-el  because his existence is a reminder of James being marginalized and what I think was the racism behind it. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by mommalib

[thuganomics85]

I see someone in the writers' room has been binging Black Lightning!  Honestly, this actually was pretty solid considering some of the past "tackling social issues" episodes, since it felt more natural this go around and not like they were smacking us upside the head like we are idiots.  Mehcad Brooks also turned in some good work here, so it is nice to know that they do know he can do more then just stand around.

At this point, I'm actually getting a thrill over Lena just giving no fucks and just politely telling "Supergirl" to can it.  I don't know what has happened, but these past few episodes have really made her unlikable.  She spends over half of the episode acting like her shit doesn't stink, but when she is called out finally, she suddenly makes a pity party for herself, and blame herself for things she clearly isn't responsible for.  It just feels so tacky and like a blatant excuse for either James or Mon-El to have to come over and be all "Oh, no, Kara!  Don't get upset!  You're still the best!"  What are they trying to go for, here?

Great, now Ruby has dragged M'yrnn into her circle, so I can't even enjoy Carl Lumbly on this show anymore.  And while I get that it's hard to find the right words to be supportive once someone finds out that their mom is a word killing supervillian, but Alex's attempts were worthy of numerous facepalms.  Offering to get her a pet?  Really, Alex?

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Was there anyone surprised when Coville showed up at the end?

 They did admittedly give that away easily with listing Chad Lowe's name in the guest credits.  Still, I'm glad he's back.

[patchwork]

The James/Lena scene was great, it's a shame that the show doesn't give Mehcad Brooks much to do but the idea of the plot falls apart when they have a shapeshifter who could pose as Tanya and could easily handle some unpowered humans so James' secret identity wouldn't have ever actually been at risk.

I did love the Mon El moment when he kinda rolled his eyes and just stood there as the humans punched him.

[AudienceofOne]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I see someone in the writers' room has been binging Black Lightning!  Honestly, this actually was pretty solid considering some of the past "tackling social issues" episodes, since it felt more natural this go around and not like they were smacking us upside the head like we are idiots.   

And here I was groaning about how clunky it was. 

[The Crazed Spruce]

Just a reminder to try to stick to the thread's topic. Occasional digressions are fine, so long as the conversation veers back towards the episode at hand.

[cambridgeguy]

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I am not liking Kara these days at all, she's way too self absorbed.

Maybe it's a CW thing?  Barry and Oliver (among others) come off like self-absorbed assholes multiple times a season so it's consistent.

Anyway, James is damned lucky that shot didn't go through his eye slit and kill him on the spot.  He probably should have had a concussion after that too.

[Jediknight]

Good to see they finally gave James something to do.  How about making that a regular thing?  Mehcad knocked it out of the park, and Tania was a good likeable character.  Make her a guest star.

Man, they are not doing Kara any favors.  They need to tone down how self-righteous and judgemental they've been writing her.  If you don't stop, you're going to run into a Mike Ross situation.

Good to see Chad Lowe back, dude is great at playing Covill as creepy beyond belief.

[kitmerlot1213]

10 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So. Much. Ruby.   Just what this show needed -- more mopey pre-teens. </sarcasm>

and

8 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

She's reaching Dawn Summers levels of annoying.

Why are there so many annoying characters on tonight's episode?  We had Ruby, a mopey preteen who has the adults in her life insisting she's a badass when she is in fact the new Dawn Summers and then we also had Olivia played by the guest star Sofai Vassilieva who played the annoying Ariel DuBois on Medium (I much preferred Bridgette) and then we had J'onn's dad.  I just can't with Alex being sidelined--either she's acting weirdly over-zealous in trying to reach Ruby or giving J'onn pep talks on his dad.  It needs to stop--Ruby isn't nearly as endearing as the show wants us to believe.

I can actually see both Kara and Lena's pov but I have to tell you, it bothers me that Lena's all "One mis-step and I'll cut you out of my life forever"--that is a very narrow-minded view of friendship, especially because people make mistakes all of the time.  At least Kara's willing to give people second chances if they make bad judgement calls.

[UNOSEZ]

43 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I can actually see both Kara and Lena's pov but I have to tell you, it bothers me that Lena's all "One mis-step and I'll cut you out of my life forever"--that is a very narrow-minded view of friendship, especially because people make mistakes all of the time.  At least Kara's willing to give people second chances if they make bad judgement calls.

But Lena hasn't done  anything wrong... She's always been helpful to Supergirl... Kryptonite ( no matter Kara and clark's personal feelings about it)  isn't illegal... She had no obligation to tell Kara she was making it... The Deo is a govt agency that has murky oversight at best and no real accountability to the avg citizen would you hand your friend over to them??...  Kara came down like a ton of bricks over and over again on Lena.. She's giving orders and she had Lena's boyfriend spy on her... Even this episode where I guess Lena and Kara agreed that any weapon that could be used against a kryptonian would be discussed... Yet she bit  lena's head off when it came to the shielding thing for Sam's room... And while I'm going in on Kara... Where does she get off asking James if he had any idea what position He out her in???  Are y'all serious... I get the show never wants to put James into angry black man territory.. But if there ever was a time.. That was it... I was watching with my mouth wide open while she complained and I kept thinking... Ok here it comes.. And he just takes it... And later she apologizes.. And She's the one to who gets to make the obvious point that she put him in the bad spot.  He doesn't even get to broach it... And finally an episode about being a black man and struggling with identity and now the writers felt that J'onn needed to be off babysitting his dad his psuedo-daughter and maybe pseudo-Foster granddaughter...I guess us black folk can only impart racial wisdom to sympathetic white folks.. Not have meaningful discussions about race amongst ourselves.... UGH... Ok I guess this episode got under my skin more than I thought  

Edited May 22, 2018 by UNOSEZ

[mommalib]

Also I really like Tanya, I would like to see more of her. And of course the white girl spends the whole episode creating havoc and gets coddled at the end.

[UNOSEZ]

8 minutes ago, mommalib said:

Also I really like Tanya, I would like to see more of her. And of course the white girl spends the whole episode creating havoc and gets coddled at the end.

Maaaaannnn...  Chases tanya.. Shoots up catco... Attacks a security guard.. Kidnaps tanya... Attacks James... Attempts to blackmail James... Tries to turn herself into a worldkiller.. Attacks Kara and Mon-el... Gets her hand burned a bit... Collapses to the floor in tears to be held and told it'll all be ok by Kara while Tanya looks on in the background ...(What in the intersectional feminism be damned was that bullshit??) 

[Wordsworth]

James thinks he's being targeted by the police because he's black and not because he's the infamous vigilante Guardian that they've been looking for for awhile now.

See, I don't think National City will have any problem with Guardian being black.  I think some of them will have a problem with him being a vigilante.  But TPTB had to make their SJW point that skin color is the only reason someone is confronted by the police. After all, everyone knows that police officers routinely handcuff 7-year olds for playing outside a hotel, rather than telling them to go play someplace else.

[secnarf]

12 minutes ago, Wordsworth said:

James thinks he's being targeted by the police because he's black and not because he's the infamous vigilante Guardian that they've been looking for for awhile now.

See, I don't think National City will have any problem with Guardian being black.  I think some of them will have a problem with him being a vigilante.  But TPTB had to make their SJW point that skin color is the only reason someone is confronted by the police. After all, everyone knows that police officers routinely handcuff 7-year olds for playing outside a hotel, rather than telling them to go play someplace else.

I think someone posted an article where Mehcad Brooks said that that story actually happened to him when he was 7. It wasn't made up by the writers.

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought part of James' hesitation was that before he 'came out' as Guardian, Guardian was not any specific race which allowed him certain privileges/freedom that he worries he will no longer have as a black man. The incident with the cops was also pretty telling - his mask was removed, revealing a black man underneath, and the cops believed he was the criminal rather than the two white people, despite the victim vouching for him. Maybe those cops just hadn't heard of Guardian (because he was still mostly in Guardian costume), but I thought those scenes were fairly well done.

As much as I still don't like the Guardian storyline, it was nice that James had something to do. Too bad it had to revolve around Guardian, though.

[Writing Wrongs]

12 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Seriously... Barry Allen is a white guy raised by a black cop in a predominantly white city it seems And is in love and married to a black woman... He will have black children(at some point maybe soon)  and his best friend is a Latino dude.. And yet the flash has not even pretended to try to broach it... Its odd.. I mean maybe they figure they'd mess it up... But I mean you gotta try right 

Why does race always have to be brought attention to? I'm biracial and I get tired of it being an issue in shows.

As for this episode, I liked goofy Mon-El.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Writing Wrongs

[UNOSEZ]

39 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Why does race always have to be brought attention to? I'm biracial and I get tired of it being an issue in shows.

As for this episode, I liked goofy Mon-El.

So am I and because in 4 or 5 years its never been brought up... You telling me your parents or grandparents never brought it up??...  The subject never came up when something happened in the world... Especially because Joe is a cop you'd think at some point it woulda been spoken about... I get that sometimes ( maybe usually)  race can be portrayed heavy-handed or preachy and I'm not saying that the flash writing team could do the subject justice.. But the complete lack of  trying... Is even worse to me.. Because this I don't see color nonsense is idiotic 

[mommalib]

49 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Why does race always have to be brought attention to? I'm biracial and I get tired of it being an issue in shows.

As for this episode, I liked goofy Mon-El.

This is America if you know anything about the history of race in this country you wouldn't even ask a question like that.

[Writing Wrongs]

I did ask it. But opinions differ so I'll move on...

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

3 hours ago, mommalib said:

Also I really like Tanya, I would like to see more of her. And of course the white girl spends the whole episode creating havoc and gets coddled at the end.

Maaaaannnn...  Chases tanya.. Shoots up catco... Attacks a security guard.. Kidnaps tanya... Attacks James... Attempts to blackmail James... Tries to turn herself into a worldkiller.. Attacks Kara and Mon-el... Gets her hand burned a bit... Collapses to the floor in tears to be held and told it'll all be ok by Kara while Tanya looks on in the background ...(What in the intersectional feminism be damned was that bullshit??) 

When she came to the Catco office crying with that sobstory I felt sorry for her and like James had a protective instinct. Then when she drops the act and she has this stankface and starts shooting the place I was like "Fuck this bitch!" for the rest of the episode. I didn't even at the end though I didn't feel sorry for her and didn't buy that she felt remorse. She made her own choices and shouldn't have been coddled.

Edited May 22, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Iceman91]

I was dreading a James centric  but it was better than expected, they did a good job to integrate it with the other stories though I still think it's too late in the season for this story and James' struggle over his identity of Guardian would work better if we saw him more than two times this season.

 

I don't understand why everybody is so severe with Supergirl, her fear of kryptonite is perfectly normal and she still apologized and said she overreacted, the only wrong thing she did was asking James to spy on Lena, she also apologized for that. Meanwhile, Lena hid important information, lies repeatedly and never apologizes for anything because she considers that when she's the one doing it's for a good reason. She's a giant hypocrite who loves presenting herself as a victim.

The return of Mike Matthews! First time of the season that Chris Wood is allowed to have some fun, not having the legion around to bring him down is doing a lot of good for Mon-El

The moral of this episode was very forked up, after being told repeatedly by the show that honesty is essential we are now being told by several characters that lying is something noble if you're doing it to protect others and wanting to say the truth is selfish so you should keep everything inside you even if it hurts you.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Iceman91 said:

I don't understand why everybody is so severe with Supergirl, her fear of kryptonite is perfectly normal and she still apologized and said she overreacted, the only wrong thing she did was asking James to spy on Lena, she also apologized for that. Meanwhile, Lena hid important information, lies repeatedly and never apologizes for anything because she considers that when she's the one doing it's for a good reason. She's a giant hypocrite who loves presenting herself as a victim.

THIS. The whole exchange between Kara and Lena had me scratching my head; So now, because Kara, for the first time in their "friendship" acted like a jerk, Lena will never, ever, ever trust Supergirl again. Supergirl apologizes and hopes she can earn back the trust for their friendship, and Lena's all like, what friendship? We never had a friendship. Just a working relationship, and let's keep it at that. Oh really? So up until a few episodes ago, was what you had a working relationship?

Lena's whole attitude just reeks of a certain mumbly mobster and his 'roided hitman, who NEVER forgive a lie because the liar BETRAAAAAAAYED!!!!! THEM! And can never ever ever be welcome within their circle.

This was the first time I enjoyed Mon-El.

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

1 hour ago, Iceman91 said:

I don't understand why everybody is so severe with Supergirl, her fear of kryptonite is perfectly normal and she still apologized and said she overreacted, the only wrong thing she did was asking James to spy on Lena, she also apologized for that. Meanwhile, Lena hid important information, lies repeatedly and never apologizes for anything because she considers that when she's the one doing it's for a good reason. She's a giant hypocrite who loves presenting herself as a victim.

THIS. The whole exchange between Kara and Lena had me scratching my head; So now, because Kara, for the first time in their "friendship" acted like a jerk, Lena will never, ever, ever trust Supergirl again. Supergirl apologizes and hopes she can earn back the trust for their friendship, and Lena's all like, what friendship? We never had a friendship. Just a working relationship, and let's keep it at that. Oh really? So up until a few episodes ago, was what you had a working relationship?

Last week I was on Lena's side but now it's gone too far. She can hold a grudge.

Man, I really want an episode where some black friends(both male and female) from college to come visit him. Have Lena hang too to show how cool she is and have Kara be totally awkward trying to fit in. Normally I wouldn't feel the need for this with other token POC characters on other shows because some of those shows actually do a decent job of fleshing them out, giving them agency, making them both funny and a badass, and they feel like an important part of the story.

Edited May 22, 2018 by VCRTracking

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Last week I was on Lena's side but now it's gone too far. She can hold a grudge.

I disagree... She's well within her rights to hold a grudge... And further.. Her grudge or should I say obvious disdain isn't stopping her from helping... Lena has helped and helped and helped and  its all been good but the second she didn't do exactly what Kara wanted or expected... She was Lex's sister again... Supergirl's then started barking orders and had someone really close to Lena spy on her(  so now she's messing with Lena's bedroom)...  I don't know about y'all but a weak  apology and another outburst of  the same behavior wouldn't make me wanna be All friendly either..  I would have to reassess the relationship... 

[iMonrey]

If nobody recognizes that Supergirl is really Kara, why should anyone recognize that Guardian is really James? Because James doesn't wear glasses? Oh, ok then. 

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Also too bad that in a show called Supergirl, it's Guardian and Mon-El to the rescue.

That's the thing . . . does National City really need Guardian? If I lived there and we had Supergirl watching over us, or if I lived in Metropolis and had Superman as my next door neighbor, I wouldn't be going "Hmmm. What we really need is some human, motorcycle riding vigilante with cool tech to protect us all. The flying, indestructible alien with super strength just isn't cutting it."

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Seriously... Barry Allen is a white guy raised by a black cop in a predominantly white city it seems And is in love and married to a black woman... He will have black children(at some point maybe soon)  and his best friend is a Latino dude.. And yet the flash has not even pretended to try to broach it... Its odd.. I mean maybe they figure they'd mess it up... But I mean you gotta try right 

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here: this is a world chock full of extra-terrestrial aliens of all colors, shapes and sizes. In other words, it's not our world. For all we know, this alternate world may have no racial issues. It literally wasn't until James had his big monologue here that I was aware people of color have the same trouble with police that they have on our own world. There have never even been any previous references to race on this show that I can recall. To that end, this felt inorganic and didactic. 

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At this point, I'm actually getting a thrill over Lena just giving no fucks and just politely telling "Supergirl" to can it.  I don't know what has happened, but these past few episodes have really made her unlikable.  

Eh. Neither is coming off well, frankly. Lena blew it big time when she tried to take on Sam/Reign herself and keep it secret. She's lucky she's still alive. As for Supergirl (or Superman, for that matter) - if you want your local super hero to keep protecting your ass and saving your city week after week, they get to be a little huffy when you secretly build weapons using Kryptonite. I wouldn't blame them if they eventually decide you're more trouble than your worth and take a walk. 

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

THIS. The whole exchange between Kara and Lena had me scratching my head; So now, because Kara, for the first time in their "friendship" acted like a jerk, Lena will never, ever, ever trust Supergirl again. Supergirl apologizes and hopes she can earn back the trust for their friendship, and Lena's all like, what friendship? We never had a friendship. Just a working relationship, and let's keep it at that. Oh really? So up until a few episodes ago, was what you had a working relationship?

I think it depends on whether Lena knows that Kara is Supergirl.  If she does know, then she knows that Kara is still lying to her and pretending that she isn't, so why should she open the doors to their friendship again?  (I don't know why Kara doesn't just come clean to Lena now, what's the point in still hiding it from her when Lena's help is so important with Reign?)

I thought James' story about being handcuffed as a 7 year old was over the top until I read that it was in there because it had happened to Mechad Brooks in real life. Who the hell handcuffs a 7 year old boy? 

James' question of whether people could accept Guardian as a hero when he's the "wrong" race is poignant too. It's more than 150 years after the Civil War, and the disparity between being white and being black is still shocking.

Just because I'm curious ... now that Sam is Reign and Lena is spending all her time trying to help her, who's running Luthor Corp?

Edited May 22, 2018 by statsgirl

[AudienceofOne]

Lena does not know. The conversation in the elevator proves that she doesn't know. That was a woman bitching to her best friend about an annoying colleague. She wouldn't have done that if she knew.

[VCRTracking]

I always am disbelief seeing Lena fans online who are mad that they're now having her and Kara be at odds and that it looks like they're turning her into a villain. That's why they brought her character on the show! Did they really think she was there just to be Supergirl's rich BFF and a source for slashfic?

Edited May 22, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If nobody recognizes that Supergirl is really Kara, why should anyone recognize that Guardian is really James? Because James doesn't wear glasses? Oh, ok then. 

That's the thing . . . does National City really need Guardian? If I lived there and we had Supergirl watching over us, or if I lived in Metropolis and had Superman as my next door neighbor, I wouldn't be going "Hmmm. What we really need is some human, motorcycle riding vigilante with cool tech to protect us all. The flying, indestructible alien with super strength just isn't cutting it."

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here: this is a world chock full of extra-terrestrial aliens of all colors, shapes and sizes. In other words, it's not our world. For all we know, this alternate world may have no racial issues. It literally wasn't until James had his big monologue here that I was aware people of color have the same trouble with police that they have on our own world. There have never even been any previous references to race on this show that I can recall. To that end, this felt inorganic and didactic. 

Eh. Neither is coming off well, frankly. Lena blew it big time when she tried to take on Sam/Reign herself and keep it secret. She's lucky she's still alive. As for Supergirl (or Superman, for that matter) - if you want your local super hero to keep protecting your ass and saving your city week after week, they get to be a little huffy when you secretly build weapons using Kryptonite. I wouldn't blame them if they eventually decide you're more trouble than your worth and take a walk. 

Part of the difference is between Kara and James is that there's no inherent reason to think that Supergirl has a secret identity. She doesn't really need money and without being explicitly shown that she spends some amount of time pretending to be a reporter (seriously, when was the last time Kara was trying to do that job?), there would be no particular reason to think that she's not just Supergirl 24-7. There's no reason Kara would be particularly well known, so there is no reason that people would wonder if it was more than a coincidence that she looks a lot like Supergirl.

Whereas Jimmy Olsen is a pretty high profile figure. He's spent years being Superman's best pal (presumably) and is now the CEO (or acting CEO) of a high profile media outlet. And it's likely that Guardian does do something beyond being Guardian because he's just a guy.

Even Supergirl can't do everything and be everywhere. 

I'm pretty sure that we know from the show that there have been racial issues in the past. I think there was something in how the green Martians took the form of black people out of some level of sympathy. Or maybe I'm conflating things.

[jay741982]

10 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I always am disbelief seeing Lena fans online who are mad that they're now having her and Kara be at odds and that it looks like they're turning her into a villain. That's why they brought her character on the show! Did they really think she was there just to be Supergirl's rich BFF and a source for slashfic?

Cause people want to think that the Writers could actually  not be lazy and actually not have Lena go Evil cause of her last name. Be different and actually have Lena not be her brother or Mother. Really thats amazing you know why they brought Lena on the show and no one else knew 

[AudienceofOne]

44 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I always am disbelief seeing Lena fans online who are mad that they're now having her and Kara be at odds and that it looks like they're turning her into a villain. That's why they brought her character on the show! Did they really think she was there just to be Supergirl's rich BFF and a source for slashfic?

29 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Cause people want to think that the Writers could actually  not be lazy and actually not have Lena go Evil cause of her last name. Be different and actually have Lena not be her brother or Mother. Really thats amazing you know why they brought Lena on the show and no one else knew 

I agree. It's so lazy. And the whole "I'm now evil because you LIED TO ME ABOUT YOUR SECRETY IDENTITY" thing is so Smallville. It only makes sense if the person isn't mentally stable to begin with and we've established multiple times that Lena is not crazy or power-mad.

Part of the reason I'm still watching this show is because, however clunky and juvenile a lot of the writing is, they do still surprise me. For example, how they dealt with Alex's sexuality was surprisingly well done. Even how they dealt with James' clunky racism plotline this episode was surprisingly well done. So if they go the route of having Lena go evil because she doesn't like Supergirl, I think I'll be done with this one too.

I think Lena was the one who was wrong in this episode, but that doesn't change the fact that she had a point when she said "we're not obligated to be friends" and "why do you care so much anyway?". And unless Kara decides to tell Lena her secret identity then that's a completely valid position.

Now I could spend the next hour ranting about the "we definitely can't tell Lena for totally good reasons" thing they had going on this episode. But I won't. Because they have no good reasons not to tell Lena other than "her name is Luthor and Kara doesn't trust Luthor's", which makes Kara's stated 'best friend' thing horsehockey.

[tennisgurl]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So now, because Kara, for the first time in their "friendship" acted like a jerk, Lena will never, ever, ever trust Supergirl again. Supergirl apologizes and hopes she can earn back the trust for their friendship, and Lena's all like, what friendship? We never had a friendship. Just a working relationship, and let's keep it at that. Oh really? So up until a few episodes ago, was what you had a working relationship?

Yeah, I dont think either of them have come off like angels lately. Lena is lucky Reign didnt kill her, with Lena's secret hospital lair, and her being snippy at Supergirl when she was clearly trying to apologize seemed unnecessary. They've been friends and allys for awhile now, this is all it takes to end their good relationship? 

On the other hand, Kara freaking out about Kryptonite last week, and being all "its my fault!" this week was worthy of several eye rolls. And her not telling Lena who she is at this point is just ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as someone as smart as Lena not figuring out that her superhero pal and her human pal who look and sound almost exactly the same are...the same! 

I hope that Lena never goes full villain, but I like her as a more morally ambiguous character, especially contrasted with Kara. Still being a good guy, but having some questionable means to do that. If they focused on that (and we`ve already seen a bit of that) and her more complex friendship with Kara/Supergirl, I think that would be a good use of her character. 

[AudienceofOne]

I think the show finally explained Kara's position this episode though. For Kara, this is about her best friend secretly pursuing technology that could kill her. But, as James pointed out, since Lena doesn't know that Supergirl is her best friend, she can hardly be judged for betraying that friendship. And as Lena said to Supergirl later, "What friendship?"

But since nobody came to the obvious conclusion about solving this problem - which is TELL LENA - then we're left with this annoying paradox for the time being. Lena has no obligation to the DEO or to Supergirl from her perspective because she doesn't know that Supergirl is her best friend, Kara. And Kara feels constantly betrayed by Lena's actions because her best friend is sneaking around behind her back. Except she's technically not. Ergo.

[Dobian]

So why didn't J'onn just get a PS4 and let his dad play Minecraft or something?  Sounds a lot safer.

[shantown]

6 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Lena does not know. The conversation in the elevator proves that she doesn't know. That was a woman bitching to her best friend about an annoying colleague. She wouldn't have done that if she knew.

My read on the scene is that they were trying to write it ambiguously - like you could read into at the Lena knows but the writers would still be able to outright deny it because it wasn’t explicitly stated. It’s the same BS they pulled for too long with Cat. They want to have it both ways, but at this point in the story/relationship it doesn’t make any sense. 

[AudienceofOne]

1 minute ago, shantown said:

My read on the scene is that they were trying to write it ambiguously - like you could read into at the Lena knows but the writers would still be able to outright deny it because it wasn’t explicitly stated. It’s the same BS they pulled for too long with Cat. They want to have it both ways, but at this point in the story/relationship it doesn’t make any sense. 

The entire issue that Lena and Kara are having right now is predicated on Lena not knowing. If she did know, the core of the ongoing conflict would be gone. Lena can't understand Supergirl's behaviour because she doesn't know. If she did, the tenor of the conflict would be different.

[statsgirl]

But if Lena does know, then there would be a different core to the argument, that the person she thought was her best friend has been lying to her all this time. The elevator conversation could also be Lena trying to get Kara to tell her the truth and being angry when she doesn't.

Maybe Supergirl got so angry at Lena because she felt betrayed that her good friend had a substance that could kill her, and maybe Lena got angry at Supergirl because she knew Kara was lying to her.  Or maybe they're both just super immature.

Either way, it doesn't make sense at this point for Kara not to come clean to Lena unless she really doesn't trust her.