S07.E12: Paean To The People

[atlantaloves]

Carrie is like Jack Bauer, she never EVER eats. Damn it, I though this was the last season, I truly wanted this series to be over with, but of course I'll be around next year, I can't help myself. Oh yeah, I agree about the total lack of roots (after 7 months being crazy in prison) in Carrie's always ugly stringy hair, WTF???

[wrlord]

On 4/29/2018 at 7:08 PM, Joan van Snark said:

so i wonder what happened to the guy Carrie was in the car with?  Guess he was not so lucky?  

They said he made it to the embassy.

On 4/29/2018 at 7:12 PM, Giant Misfit said:

The In-Out-In-Again-Out-Again President Keane was a disappointment.

It allows them to reset with a man as president. They only had Keane win the election because they were sure Clinton would win.

[roughing it]

So has Carrie been officially hired by the CIA?  Given back pay?  Or is she still just a volunteer?  Last we knew, Carrie didn't have enough money to stay one night in a crap motel.

[TVbitch]

This left me wondering how the series will end next year. They can't do shell-shocked Carrie, cuz they just did shell-shocked Quinn. They can't have her die heroically, cuz again, Quinn. They can't have her settle down with a dude and be happy with Franny, cuz they tried that in Germany, so been there, done that, didn't work. It would be weird to just have her heading up another assignment overseas like before. Hmmmm? 

[vesperholly]

On 4/30/2018 at 9:36 PM, SuprSuprElevated said:

I really, really disliked Keane, which I guess is a tribute to Elizabeth Marvel.

After seeing her on House of Cards and now here, I just think she's not a very good actress. Or at least miscast in these harsh political roles.

[Son of Saul]

On 4/30/2018 at 5:14 PM, ruby24 said:

You know, allowing Carrie to go insane would seem to make it a lot harder on her jailers to keep her alive for months too. I thought for sure he would just threaten Frannie to get her to make the tape.

I think Homeland was trying to send a message with Keane's resignation for the "good of the country" speech. If only.

Did Saul tell Maggie and Frannie that Carrie was being held in a Russian prison all that time?

Yes, I was dreading that a threat to Frannie was coming just as we escaped from that ball and chain. I was pleased it didn't but that in itself didn't make sense because as if they wouldn't threaten that.

On 4/30/2018 at 4:27 PM, tpplay said:

And - perversely I guess - I was delighted that the Russian guard actually DIDN'T want to fuck our heroine.  Because that thing?  I am just over it.

Honey-trap Carrie is landing on fumes. She gets less attractive by the episode. If that guard did want to do that he would have to bring another pill - this one blue. 

On 4/30/2018 at 9:45 PM, ahpny said:

Why didn’t Carrie loose the wig in the subway? If she was worried they’d recognize her as “Carrie,” why wasn’t she also worried about being, bewigged notwithstanding, recognized as “not Simone?”

100% what I was thinking at the time. Lose the wig and the jacket then go about your business. Those street cops would not have recognised her. 

[Son of Saul]

A tale of two halves.

The first half - superb. It proved to me that the show should really be about Saul. I don't know any character in TV history that you would prefer to have by your side in a crisis. When he was in the van arguing with the guard before that, "Fuck off, asshole!" it was great. I even replayed it a few times. That first half had all the action and intrigue you could want and I was beside myself with joy when I saw we still had a half to go.

The second half - garbage. All through the series they have been dropping not so subtle and ever so patronising criticism of the state of Trump's America and then last night they decide to ram it down our throat with that unbearable lecture given to us in close up with blue light by the poe-faced schoolmarm Keane. I know they are trying to be current but they can give us a break. And no, I am neither a democrat or a republican (or even American) -  just someone that wants to watch a show and not feel I am watching some production of Fox News or CNN. Then we end up with Carrie so scrambled eggs on the Bridge of Spies she couldn't even manage a chin wobble, though that was made up for by the extended edition chin wobble and wet eyes she gave us in the cell beforehand.  Danes' over-acting is murderous to watch. 

For mine the whole series was a disappointment. We had that stuff with the domestic terrorists that melted away like ice on the sun. We then have the ongoing and boring political machinations that took up precious time and made Veep look serious. And to top it all off we had that tedious side story with Carrie's family including the painful Frannie. It seems to me that the writer's ran out of puff and didn't have a strong enough story to last the whole series so they went cherry-picking ideas and threw them all in. It makes me worry about the next series. 

And I will certainly be tuning in next time.....

Edited May 2, 2018 by Son of Saul

[EtheltoTillie]

46 minutes ago, Son of Saul said:

A tale of two halves.

The first half - superb. It proved to me that the show should really be about Saul. I don't know any character in TV history that you would prefer to have by your side in a crisis. When he was in the van arguing with the guard before that, "Fuck off, asshole!" it was great. I even replayed it a few times. That first half had all the action and intrigue you could want and I was beside myself with joy when I saw we still had a half to go.

The second half - garbage. All through the series they have been dropping not so subtle and ever so patronising criticism of the state of Trump's America and then last night they decide to ram it down our throat with that unbearable lecture given to us in close up with blue light by the poe-faced schoolmarm Keane. I know they are trying to be current but they can give us a break. And no, I am neither a democrat or a republican (or even American) -  just someone that wants to watch a show and not feel I am watching some production of Fox News or CNN. Then we end up with Carrie so scrambled eggs on the Bridge of Spies she couldn't even manage a chin wobble, though that was made up for by the extended edition chin wobble and wet eyes she gave us in the cell beforehand.  Danes' over-acting is murderous to watch. 

For mine the whole series was a disappointment. We had that stuff with the domestic terrorists that melted away like ice on the sun. We then have the ongoing and boring political machinations that took up precious time and made Veep look serious. And to top it all off we had that tedious side story with Carrie's family including the painful Frannie. It seems to me that the writer's ran out of puff and didn't have a strong enough story to last the whole series so they went cherry-picking ideas and threw them all in. It makes me worry about the next series. 

And I will certainly be tuning in next time.....

Agreed and I would add that a series about Saul and the hand-picked inside team would be really interesting. The super knowledgeable agent turned professor, the other geeks. But Carrie is also a necessary member of that team. 

[Son of Saul]

1 hour ago, GussieK said:

Agreed and I would add that a series about Saul and the hand-picked inside team would be really interesting. The super knowledgeable agent turned professor, the other geeks. But Carrie is also a necessary member of that team. 

I am willing to allow her to be a supporting actor. 

[dwmarch]

7 hours ago, TVbitch said:

This left me wondering how the series will end next year. They can't do shell-shocked Carrie, cuz they just did shell-shocked Quinn. They can't have her die heroically, cuz again, Quinn. They can't have her settle down with a dude and be happy with Franny, cuz they tried that in Germany, so been there, done that, didn't work. It would be weird to just have her heading up another assignment overseas like before. Hmmmm? 

Since they've already laid the groundwork for Carrie being a "useful idiot" to the Russians, I'm going to speculate next season she will be a full-on Manchurian Candidate. However, I do hope we get a flashback to Yvgeniy trying to brainwash Carrie and realizing she'll do way more damage to the CIA from the inside if he just lets her be herself.

[magemaud]

12 hours ago, vesperholly said:

After seeing her on House of Cards and now here, I just think she's not a very good actress. Or at least miscast in these harsh political roles.

Yet on BOTH shows she was cast as the first female running for President. 

[Milburn Stone]

I thought she was excellent as both female presidents; one piece of support for her being a good actress is that these portrayals were not cookie-cutter duplicates of each other. If you gave Heather Dunbar and Elizabeth Keane exactly the physical appearance and exactly the same dialogue, I'd still be able to tell them apart in about three sentences.

[RandomX]

Have we seen Carrie nonverbal before when off her meds?

I have some experience with bipolar disorder with a family member, but I assume it was a different diagnosis than Carrie's. The storyline of her meds becoming ineffective hit close to home for me, since finding the "right" medication and dosage can be so difficult with the side effects. 

I had the impression that she was subjected to psychological manipulation beyond not getting her medication. I don't know how asylums are in Russia, but I assume they're grim. Maybe the Manchurian candidate mention above is on target.

[Son of Saul]

1 hour ago, RandomX said:

Have we seen Carrie nonverbal before when off her meds?

I have some experience with bipolar disorder with a family member, but I assume it was a different diagnosis than Carrie's. The storyline of her meds becoming ineffective hit close to home for me, since finding the "right" medication and dosage can be so difficult with the side effects. 

I had the impression that she was subjected to psychological manipulation beyond not getting her medication. I don't know how asylums are in Russia, but I assume they're grim. Maybe the Manchurian candidate mention above is on target.

Believe it or not a couple of years ago I had occasion to visit an asylum in Minsk, Belarus as part of ongoing research into the Holocaust (at this particular asylum the Nazis tried alternative methods of killing to bullets).

We were left waiting in the common area with the patients for about 30 minutes whilst our fixer spoke to the director.

It was grim. Heartbreaking actually. 

[crookedjackson44]

The eye rolling scene at the end was mortifying.  Claire Danes, please stop trying to win an Emmy, and just act.

[Ottis]

So to everyone who thought Keane was awesome and Warner was a dbag, you can now suck it! As I said before, Keane gave us little reason to root for her. Warner, meanwhile, kicked ass. Only to be referred to as someone who should be put in a doll box by Keane. Then after, he was still trying to put things back together. While Keane was still acting as a dictator. Trumpian almost. Her speech at the end was what she should have said at the beginning. 

Is it bad that I had no issue with Carrie being stuck in Russia, and would be fine if the show continued with Saul and his band? By the way, if Carrie would do “anything” for the pills, would that include the taped statement? Pretty unclear. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Ottis

[Mindthinkr]

When Saul sat on the park bench and handed the list of who they were willing to trade for Carrie, the head Russian looked at the list and said no. The deal had to include Goren. Saul told him something to the effect that that person was out of his control to hand over. The reason it took 7 months is because Saul probably had to work that long to get clearance to put Goren in a position to be handed over. I don’t know what Saul had to give up (or do) to get Goren available for the trade. Saul really loves Carrie and was most likely working diligently to get her released by giving the Russians who they wanted. I agree with another poster up thread that the pill given to Carrie with her dinner was probably a sugar pill. I was afraid they were going to give her trace amounts of poison. 

[atlantaloves]

Yeah, they way Carrie was overacting, I wanted them to give her a little dose of poison myself! 

[nara]

On 4/30/2018 at 7:45 AM, ahpny said:

And also, isn’t part of the deal with keeping captives alive and well for trade, keeping them well, which would include not insane? If the US has enough leaverage  to broker the trade, why didn’t the US have enough leaverage to insure she got her meds? Maybe that leaverage went to hair coloring products.

I only have experience with 1 mentally ill person (schizophrenia), but after 2+ years off her meds, she was pretty lucid after a few hours back on them. So on this case of Carrie, they may not have felt that keeping her on meds was critical for a trade.

 

 

On 5/1/2018 at 10:01 AM, teddysmom said:

Does Russia not observe the Geneva Convention? Wouldn't withholding meds like that be in violation? And why wouldn't someone from the US Embassy be allowed to see her and provide her with the medication she needed? 

 

Her hair grew WAY more than seven months' worth of length. 

 

I don’t think Geneva convention would apply since she is not a prisoner of war, but rather, a “spy”...

On 5/2/2018 at 6:52 PM, crookedjackson44 said:

The eye rolling scene at the end was mortifying.  Claire Danes, please stop trying to win an Emmy, and just act.

I disagree. My schizophrenic friend had the same expression after months off her meds.

[Espy]

I have been around bipolar disorder a lot in my life and I have to say I have always found Claire Danes’ portrayal to be uncomfortably realistic. 

 

I assumed the hand over took place during one of Carrie’s down periods ie. not manic phase and that when she’s back on the meds her affect will return. Without meds she would be cycling through phases rather than being rendered insane or catatonic which is what the show seemed to be saying. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

14 hours ago, Espy said:

Without meds she would be cycling through phases rather than being rendered insane or catatonic which is what the show seemed to be saying. 

I have no experience with the disorder, but I thought that seemed unlikely.  When she told her Russian captor that she would "go insane" without the meds, I felt uncomfortable, like it was doing an injustice to folks with the illness.

[gallimaufry]

Didn't do anything for me at all.

Keane is such a horrible character with such an off-the-wall plot and, while I'm glad she's gone, giving her a noble send-off feels unearned and largely out of character.  The whole arc, despite occasional glimmers of some real promise, has been a huge misstep.

The Carrie arc was well-acted but I can't see the long-term consequences are any worse than she's already faced.  I mean, she had a full-fledged psychotic break just a couple of episodes ago.

The Russian stuff seems wrapped up in as neat a bow as you can get with these sorts of things.

After the tension of the siege and the great stuff with Dante and the Russians, it feels like the season really fell to pieces in the third art.  A pity.

[tpplay]

To sum it up.  UGGH.

And why does Rupert Friend have to die, but Claire Danes does not have to die??? Is that fair? What happened to women's equality? 

[John Potts]

Definitely thought that this episode suffered from the same thing the whole Season did: it dedicated its focus to the wrong things. Just like the O'Keefe plot was a diversion that didn't really go anywhere, I felt the scene Keene spits on Senator Paley or where everyone cheers as she resumes her office (briefly!) were unnecessary and self indulgent. But despite the fact we had (essentially) a constitutional coup d'état in the US and civil war between the Russian intelligence agencies it seemed far too "business as usual".

Confused about Paley - I'd assumed he was on the opposing party. Bringing down "your" (Democratic?) President pretty much guarantees the opposition (Republicans?) will win the next election. Yet he was there in the Oval Office advising APOTUS (Warner) so he's presumably the same party. I thought it was implied that he was looking at a Presidential run in the near future, so bringing down "your" President is a pretty good way of torpedoing your chances (and assuming he's the same age as Dylan Baker, he'd be 60 at the next Presidential Election, so he hasn't got that many chances to run - OK, I know the current President is 70).

Carrie's cell was HUGE! You could hold a state banquet in that!

On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 7:27 AM, tpplay said:

I was delighted that the Russian guard actually DIDN'T want to fuck our heroine.  Because that thing?  I am just over it.

 

On ‎01‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 9:54 AM, dwmarch said:

Oh he fucked her, of that I am sure. That was part of Yvgeniy's plan for breaking Carrie

I thought that Yvgeny turned up when she was expecting the guard? My thought was that IRL he would probably just rape her anyway, without any quid pro quo, but I suppose that would be too much to put our heroine through.

[PreBabylonia]

On 2018-04-30 at 6:35 AM, txhorns79 said:

The Russians have a motto for all their prisons: "Being insane is no excuse not to look your best!"

Well, they gave her access to hair colouring but what....no hairbrushes????!

On 2018-04-30 at 10:21 AM, Deanie87 said:

I thought this season started so strong but other than the President Keane stuff, there wasn't single focus holding the season together.  The Alex Jones-like guy was completely forgotten beyond the Russian bots that were on the periphery of his story,  Carrie got the never before heard of band back together in the middle of the season and Frannie was in and out of Carrie's thoughts until she, too, was completely tossed aside and forgotten.  Between all of that and the time jumps this seemed like two separate seasons rather than one unified whole.  So much time and detail was put into things that didn't really matter in the end, and then the last episode so much had to be handwaved by time jumps and inference.

I really liked that Keane went to the bunker to thank all of the moles but this finale didn't work for me much.  Meh, I still miss Quinn. 

Agree, this season really lacked a focus. The Russia episodes seemed really rushed while earlier in the season, there seemed to be a lot of filler, what with the young hacker & his ransomware, and the endless scenes of O'Keefe.

On 2018-04-30 at 10:23 AM, attica said:

I would have hoped Carrie would have anticipated Good Cop / Bad Cop between Aleksandr and Yevgeny and been better prepared, but I'm willing to fanwank that she was just throwing the only hail-mary pass she had left. Also: that cell she was is was bigger than my whole apartment. I didn't think the Russians use Open Concept floorplans in their prisons!

That jail cell was amazing! It looked like the best cell I have ever seen on TV or in the movies. Best of all, Carrie didn't have to pay for it...in money, anyway. I DO think Alek may have been sympathetic but it's not as if he would have tried to take on Yevgeny, far more powerful than him in every way. He didn't like Carriet THAT much.

On 2018-04-30 at 6:41 PM, snarts said:

Petty point I realize, but my biggest issue with Keane was her schoolmarm look.  Same freaking hairstyle, day after day...

I was also yelling at the screen for Carrie to ditch the scarf & wig.  I thought Yevgeny would resort to threats when the offer of pills didn't work.  I wonder, did  Aleksandr show up to fuck Carrie the night he brought her the sugar pill?  A little goodbye party before his new assignment in Syria?

At first I liked it, thinking it made her look serious and professional but as the season went on, it looked worse and worse. Don't know if it's my viewpoint or my belief that the President would have a professional hair stylist to make them look immaculate at all times. If they chose to take advantage of that anyway. not all presidents do.,,,

On 2018-04-30 at 8:15 PM, chocolatine said:

In the exchange between Saul and the Russian ambassador in the "three days later" part, the ambassador asked for three Russian prisoners in exchange for Carrie, and Saul vetoed one of them. Then, "seven months later", Saul gives the Russians three prisoners in exchange for Carrie, including the guy he didn't want to give up. So Carrie rotted in a Russian prison for sevens moths without her meds pretty much for nothing? She could have been out after three days at the same expense to the US. Not cool, Saul.

A lot of deal making went on there, I am sure. I don't remember the name Goran. Was that prisoner made up for this episode or have we actually seen this man in an earlier seaso?

On 2018-05-01 at 4:54 AM, dwmarch said:

Oh he fucked her, of that I am sure. That was part of Yvgeniy's plan for breaking Carrie, showing her how her usual charms could be employed to absolutely no effect.

Dragging real politics into this forum is generally considered verboten but having said that I am glad I am not the only one who noticed.

I would laugh if it turned out Carrie's charms worked out after all, Yvegeniy ended up becoming her boyfriend and she was all shell-shocked because after her successes in Russia she was being remanded into the custody of friggin' Saul who always ruins her best plans.

Her best work ever....

[Cranberry]

Remember to stay on the topic of the show and not real-life politics -- here are the political talk guidelines for all of the forums here at PTV. Thanks!

[Addlepated]

The only two characters that I thought were remotely sympathetic this season were Max and the other special-op team woman.  Everyone else pissed me the hell off.  

[grommit2]

On 4/30/2018 at 8:15 PM, chocolatine said:

In the exchange between Saul and the Russian ambassador in the "three days later" part, the ambassador asked for three Russian prisoners in exchange for Carrie, and Saul vetoed one of them. Then, "seven months later", Saul gives the Russians three prisoners in exchange for Carrie, including the guy he didn't want to give up. So Carrie rotted in a Russian prison for sevens moths without her meds pretty much for nothing? She could have been out after three days at the same expense to the US. Not cool, Saul.

Can you help?  I missed something in this episode. Saul did not want to give up "Goren"?  And 7 months later at the "Bridge of Spies", the comment was "...that's Goren...I never suspected..."  or something like that.  So, who is this "Goren"?  It was not Yevgeny Gromov and not "Otto During".  Is it Imam Rafan Gohar...in 2 episodes back in 2011. 

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, grommit2 said:

Can you help?  I missed something in this episode. Saul did not want to give up "Goren"?  And 7 months later at the "Bridge of Spies", the comment was "...that's Goren...I never suspected..."  or something like that.  So, who is this "Goren"?  It was not Yevgeny Gromov and not "Otto During".  Is it Imam Rafan Gohar...in 2 episodes back in 2011. 

I don't know who he is, and I don't remember him ever coming up before. It was definitely Russian name though, not an imam. Russia was demanding three Russian citizens that had been imprisoned in the US - I assume all of them spies or fake-news shit stirrers like Yevgeny - as the condition for releasing Carrie.

[Pallas]

11 hours ago, grommit2 said:

So, who is this "Goren"?  It was not Yevgeny Gromov and not "Otto During". 

Otto During really was a German philanthropist, not a Russian spy. In season 6, the non-profit Carrie worked for in New York was funded by the During Foundation. Otto visited her there. 

[grommit2]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

Otto During really was a German philanthropist, not a Russian spy. In season 6, the non-profit Carrie worked for in New York was funded by the During Foundation. Otto visited her there. 

Sooo...the mystery continues.  This "Goren" or "Goran" or whatever must REALLY be a super-spy because the Homeland cognoscenti cannot identify him, or her, or...in these days of Russian/Chinese/fat-guy in his bedroom...bots!  Ah, the plot thickens. 

[Lunula]

On 5/8/2018 at 10:37 AM, PreBabylonia said:

Agree, this season really lacked a focus. The Russia episodes seemed really rushed while earlier in the season, there seemed to be a lot of filler, what with the young hacker & his ransomware, and the endless scenes of O'Keefe.

My GAWD, that absolutely horrible story of Brett O'Keefe! WTH was that point of spending half the damn season on that crap? Every.Single.Time. he opened his mouth I wanted to scream. That was, literally, the worst "southern" accent I've ever heard. I have lived in North Carolina since the early 80s, went to high school and college here and have many friends from other southern states - and that sounded nothing like anything authentic. Truly the most grating fake accent ever, and what I personally thought was the dumbest storyline this show has ever produced. 

I have mixed feelings about the season and this episode - and I'm truly struggling to find much I liked about either. Saul. I always like him. Umm...since I watch The Americans, I liked Yevgeny - nice to see him in other roles (but I think Hollywood can do better than always making him a Russian spy). Max...always like Max. I didn't mind Keene - but the resignation at the end made me feel like the entire season was a complete waste. 

Finally, we have Carrie. I always viewed her as the very flawed heroine. This season, however, she crossed the line for me into being completely unlikeable. Her role in the entire plot made no sense - she has no job, isn't part of any government agency whatsoever, yet she somehow gets this deeply into this conspiracy as to get thrown into a Russian asylum for 7 months? Huh?

[pasdetrois]

I just binged season 7 with a temporary Showtime subscription.

Despite the obvious problems with too many plots, inconsistently executed, and the preposterous incidents, I still enjoy the series. Maybe because I live in Washington and so many people I know have worked in all three branches of government. I was riding in a car with a new colleague recently, and he casually bragged about managing a contract to operate one of the US' interrogation sites. (The gleeful tone of his bragging was unsettling.)

Agree that Carrie should never have had a kid. I predict that sister or BIL will get a job transfer somewhere far away and off the kid will go, never to be seen again.

Having been around mental illness, I know that each person's symptoms are different from the next person's, at least over time. My friend's psychiatrists have struggled with a diagnosis and medication for decades, with one insisting on bipolar and another on schizophrenia (both can manifest as paranoia and delusions). There is a wide range of mania and depression episodes, from rapid cycling to prolonged episodes of one or the other. People do routinely "grow out" of a once-effective medication.

All of which to say that when they decided that Carrie is bipolar, it's tough to just dabble in it occasionally (episodically), because in real life it doesn't work that way.

Shallow pool: I was distracted by Keane's Botox when there were close-up facial expressions, and Dylan Baker appears to have sprouted a completely new head of hair. Keane's uneven-eyed squinting and brow-furrowing put me in mind of Austin Powers. Regarding Keane's severe wardrobe and hair, that's the look many female government and business leaders adopt in order to try to be taken seriously. And I'm glad Saul's university recruit looked like a real person.

Poor Saul was a bit of an Eeyore this season, but he's one of my favorite TV characters. Also love Max and I think Anson is gonna be fun to watch. As should be Bridges.

Love the old building porn.

When Paley sat in the car with his chief, and she made the cynical aside about "of course this benefits you and me," he appeared to be having an insightful moment about political greed and I thought he was gonna turn into a good guy as a plot twist. Nope.

ETA: whoever said O'Keefe sounded like Yosemite Sam nailed it.  This life-long southerner found his accent ridiculous. But then, many other actors fail as well.

Edited September 3, 2018 by pasdetrois

[Roseanna]

Carrie was super stupid in trusting the "friendly" guard. An amateuer could do it, not a professional spy.

And between Narva (Estonia) and Ivangorof (Russia) there is a long ordinary bridge where there are cars cyclists and pedesterians, no tunnel. Obvioysly they wanted to create an atmosphere of the Cold War.

On ‎1‎.‎5‎.‎2018 at 6:55 PM, LGGirl said:

IRL, Carrie would be left in Russia to rot.  The government would do nothing to save her. 

How so? Is it general to chnage spies? 

Besides, also the Russians wanted their men back. 

[grommit2]

Will Homeland continue with an 8th season?
Or has it been cancelled?

[Babalu]

@grommit2 - There will be a Season 8, which will be the final season and won’t be airing until next summer.

[Roseanna]

On ‎30‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 1:17 PM, Pallas said:

Carrie told Simone that both of them -- Carrie and Simone -- had signed on to be sacrificed for the sake of their homelands, if they became the problem. 

Isn't Simone a Frenchwoman? Of course she could have become a Russian citizen, but Russia is not her homeland which is perhaps why she didn't want to be sacrificed for it.

[Roseanna]

On ‎1‎.‎5‎.‎2018 at 5:01 PM, teddysmom said:

Does Russia not observe the Geneva Convention? Wouldn't withholding meds like that be in violation? And why wouldn't someone from the US Embassy be allowed to see her and provide her with the medication she needed? 

The Geneva Convcention concerns POVs, and Carrie isn't that. Instead, she had a diplomatic immunity, but I guess the Russians said that it was invalid because a woman with a passport "Carrie Matthison" had left the country with Saul.

I am not sure whether spies who are caught have a right to have a contact with their embassy.

As for withholding her medication, could Yevgeni really make a decision about that? It wasn't an intelligent move if the Russians wanted their own men back. And if Yevgeni knew "all" about Carrie, he would have known that she wouldn't yield.

But the worst part was that Carrie's fate didn't didn't really matter. Even if Frannie had been forced to be killed, it wouldn't have mattered.

[Roseanna]

On ‎30‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 5:23 PM, attica said:

Also: that cell she was is was bigger than my whole apartment. I didn't think the Russians use Open Concept floorplans in their prisons!

No, and they don't carry a prisoner in such a careless way than Alexander did. I was waiting for Carrie to try some trick. 

[John Potts]

On ‎04‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 7:24 AM, Roseanna said:

I am not sure whether spies who are caught have a right to have a contact with their embassy.

It would depend how "official" she is. If she is operating as a representative of the US government ("diplomatic cover", in the trade) then she'll be treated with kid gloves (relatively speaking). If she's there in an unofficial capacity (she might still be on government business - think Mission: Impossible "If you or any of your team are captured, the US government will deny all knowledge..."), then she's an illegal immigrant and can be treated as such. Even though both governments would know it's a lie (Carrie was part of a US delegation!), Carrie would be considered entirely expendable. It was only because Saul has a thing for Carrie that she was rescued at all.

[John Potts]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 11:37 AM, tvaddict44 said:

Does anyone have any idea when this last season will start?? 

According to this article, February 2020, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's pushed back again.

[chick binewski]

On 5/1/2018 at 10:14 PM, vesperholly said:

After seeing her on House of Cards and now here, I just think she's not a very good actress. Or at least miscast in these harsh political roles.

 

On 5/2/2018 at 10:42 AM, Milburn Stone said:

I thought she was excellent as both female presidents; one piece of support for her being a good actress is that these portrayals were not cookie-cutter duplicates of each other. If you gave Heather Dunbar and Elizabeth Keane exactly the physical appearance and exactly the same dialogue, I'd still be able to tell them apart in about three sentences.

As an Elizabeth Marvel superfan who just finished my power-rewatch of the entire series I had forgotten how much Keane's S7 personality-minus  delivery irked. I'm blaming whoever thought one-note obstinance would would make a powerful character bc Marvel was good through most of S6 (also not that anybody asked but her husband Bill Camp is pretty great too).

On 5/7/2018 at 1:39 PM, John Potts said:

Carrie's cell was HUGE! You could hold a state banquet in that!

Seriously. That place looked like they regularly held shoots for Anthropologie Home. 

On 4/30/2018 at 2:27 AM, tpplay said:

I fear we're in for a ton of boredom at the beginning of the next season.  Carrie all demented???  Here's the problem with an actress also being an Executive Producer.  It's all about highlighting what interests her as an actress.

And - perversely I guess - I was delighted that the Russian guard actually DIDN'T want to fuck our heroine.  Because that thing?  I am just over it.

I think Beau Bridges has done an extraordinary job in the show this season.  I called the lady president's decision to resign and I like that twist a lot.  I feel hopeful that Beau Bridges will be back to play the president.

I have many issues with Showtime's magical vagina trope (see Bailey, Alison) but watching Carrie captivate EVERYONE is too much - it's distracting in its implausibility. I'm still irritated that Quinn (RIP) was so brokenhearted (after being horrified by most of Carrie's actions in S4) he had to run to Syria on a suicide mission. Even Rupert Friend seemed to have a markedly different opinion from the showrunners re Carrie.

I am glad Bridges will be back next week, and as much as I've complained about the last few seasons I will be sorry to see the show end.

[paramitch]

Chalk me on the side of those who thought this was a strong season that had a lot to say about men, women, bipolar disorder, the dangers of social media and fact manipulation, and more. I have a close family member who is bipolar and the show is surprisingly accurate (and I appreciated the positive appearance of ECT here earlier in the season, as it can be a godsend to break the depressive cycle for many who are bipolar).

A few general comments:

• The "Gorin" character that people keep wondering about is the guy who was mentioned multiple times as the ultimate high-profile hostage request by Russia. And the one Saul kept refusing as a trade, as too much for them to ask for. So when Gorin shows up as mentioned here in the trade, we know it's because Saul was so desperate at that point, and after 7+ months, that he was willing to trade for 3 high-profile Russians INCLUDING their ace in the hole Gorin -- just to bring Carrie home.
   
• Carrie could have removed the Simone wig at any time, but the entire purpose was to make them think they were inches behind Simone. If they for one minute thought it wasn't her, they could have stopped the pursuit (and Saul's escape and flight). It's completely logical that Carrie kept up the pretense for as long as possible. And typical of Carrie to sacrifice herself.
   
• The Russian asylum was meant to be huge and old. Not because it's a sumptuous Anthropologie set, but because it's where Carrie is being sent to be lost, locked away and forgotten. She will feel lonelier in a large empty, cold room, and lord knows, the Russians would believably have plenty of such buildings. 
   
• As someone whose hair grows like a weed, to me Carrie's hair grew believably for a 7-8 month period -- it was already long, she just added 3-4 (messy) inches. And it's believable to me that they may have even cared for her and taken care of her personal grooming, in case they needed to present her on video, or defend her care as far as the Geneva Convention. (Beyond that? It's a TV show. So she doesn't have roots -- I'll live.)
   
• Meanwhile, as far as people wanting Carrie to die, the opening credits literally take place in her brain. The show is first and foremost about Carrie. The opening credits don't explore Saul's inner thoughts or guilts, or anyone else's. Just Carrie's. So there's no way she's going out before deep in the final season, if that.
   
• Last but not least, I get why people find Carrie maddening (and I think that's deliberate, and mostly well-done), but I definitely don't think Danes is insisting on love scenes for vanity's sakes -- she has ironically often talked about how uncomfortable she is in filming them. (She's given some funny anecdotes about having to film some of her S2 or S3 (I think?) Brody love scenes while VERY pregnant and hiding it, LOL.)
   
• I do think Carrie is believably beautiful, brilliant, and intense enough that she could certainly attract the men she has on the show. For me, there's a danger of sexism to the idea of Carrie's "magical vagina" or attractiveness, when she is pretty conventionally attractive -- fit, blonde, lovely, young, and smart. Especially when the vast majority of so many fricking shows spotlight men who are none of those things (and I find plenty of them attractive anyway, so I'm not knocking them physically, just pointing out the disparity).
  
  Even here, we have people wishing for shows about Saul's escapades and love life -- and look, I love Saul, and will always adore Mandy Patinkin -- but he's 68 years old and basically a cuddly grandpa, yet somehow Carrie as attractive to 30/40something men is unrealistic? YMMV.

I know I sit at a lonely table, but I still enjoy the show, so just my 2 cents. Thanks, and onward to season 8!