S07.E00: Reunion Part Two

[smhjess]

Is it possible this many people on TM and TM2 really have a bipolar diagnosis?  This seems improbably high.

[guilfoyleatpp]

9 minutes ago, smhjess said:

Is it possible this many people on TM and TM2 really have a bipolar diagnosis?  This seems improbably high.

I can't recall exactly, but a while ago there were studies (maybe not scholarly studies...again, can't recall) that reported that a high number of people on reality shows suffered from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

There are lots of co-morbid disorders with NPD, not sure if bi-polar is one, but even anecdotal evidence by those of us who have watched a few multiple season reality shows with recurring characters have probably observed a higher than average rate of "there's something wrong with that person."

It is possible that these people make better television as they are willing participants in the manipulation necessary to sustain story lines. And to not be married to the truth like many of us are. They pay off in attention seems to be a motivator.

Personally, I wouldn't ever participate in a reality show. I worked in entertainment and I've seen how callously production companies consider their "talent," even when things are going well. 

There must be at least a casual correlation between having a diagnosis and being willing to participate in a reality tv show. 

That's my two cents. 

 

Also, WHO IS DIXIE, CATE?!?!?!?!

[Rebecca]

On 4/21/2018 at 12:03 PM, Kazu said:

The only things that are big about this season are Catelynn's tits 

Legit, they each looked nearly the size of her head!

16 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

Sigh. Even now, all of these folks on stage speaking for Ryan but Ryan. 

Every person on that stage was delusional. I do think Jen is slightly less delusional than the others but she’s also the Queen enabler so she’s not able to be the one to get the rest to face the facts and wants to deny them herself. Yeah 

16 hours ago, druzy said:

Ryan is surrounded by enablers. Did Drew ask Mac Truck why Maci was a trigger for Ryan? I laughed when Larry said Ryan went to the doctor and Mac advised him that Maci was a trigger for Ryan. Ok case closed, it's Maci's fault. Ryan and Mac probably didn't go to the doctor Mac just lied to Jen and Larry.

Mackenzie knows better keep on enabling because it’s the only way she’s not going to be declared a “trigger” herself. She makes me sick.

15 hours ago, druzy said:

Drew you put Kristina in the middle of this not social media.

And this isn’t the first time! He’s thrown her right in the middle at at least one other reunion. 

15 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

Oh give a fucking break with the waterworks Amber. Gary hasn't even downed her as a mom but she's not even listening. She's got these rehearsed tears and she's sticking with em.

Gary was, like always, wayyyy too kind and judicious in his words about Amber. I get why he’s doing that but it makes me want to scream hearing him getting accused of all this shit and then taking the high road yet still Amber cries. I want him to cut her with the truth so badly.

15 hours ago, druzy said:

I think this is his way of, again, letting everyone know he’s playing nice with Amber for Leah’s sake. He must meditate or something because it infuriates me so I can only imagine how he and Kristina really feel.

15 hours ago, druzy said:

I wonder what he's on.

He certainly looked like shit.

15 hours ago, FairyDusted said:

If Butch goes with Darl, I have to quit watching.

His middle name is Lynn. I wondered if his name was pronounced like Daryl or like it’s spelled... since it’s like it is spelled his name is Darl Lynn ... that’s way too fucking close to Darlin’ and it sounds like a name Bart Simpson would use to prank Moe with at the at tavern...”I’m lookin’ for a Darl Lynn...is there are a Darlin’ here..?”

14 hours ago, Caseysgirl said:

As we have all been saying this whole season, MTV has got to put this mess out of its misery. It won't be long before one of these KIDS will be pregnant or doing something illegal or irresponsible and we will be culpable for encouraging the poor parenting that we watched and rewarded their parents for.

MTV and Viacom are culpable. I only watch this shit illegally steamed and I don’t follow or comment on any of their stuff. Many of us don’t. Many of us have also actively tried and succeeded in getting sponsors to pull their ads from the show. Many of the people who watch this show are responsible for getting David fired, helping get CPS involved, etc with Amber and other things. Most people on reality tv are getting rewarded for being assholes. I don’t feel responsible or culpable for their choices. And no one benefits from me watching the show.

13 hours ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

  I have never wanted to rip someone’s head off so bad as I did when Mac was being such a mega bitch. I mean I’ve never hit someone in my life, aside from my sister (I was a teenager and in my defense who hasn’t had a knock down drag out with their sis? Just me? Ok then.)but when I hear Mac talk or see her face, I have a physical reaction. I almost, almost understand Amber not being able to stop herself from storming the stage and taking a swing at Farrah cause that’s exactly where I am with Mackenzie. I wouldn’t trust myself in the same room with her. And the weird thing is, this is just a tv show! I don’t know this woman. She shouldn’t be having this kind of affect on me. I don’t even like Maci that much so it’s not even about that. She’s just so unlikeable. Oh and Ryan is too but Mackenzie just brings out my violent side. I really do feel like Amber in those moments. lol Maybe I should stop watching this show. ?

I have a lot of hate for Mackenzie too. She’s definitely one of the people on TV I’ve disliked the most. Her whole vibe and..essence is just dark and bad. 

4 hours ago, Mr. Minor said:

what's with the pink fucking hair?

It looks like shit and she needs to stop. She has the worst style of any person I’ve ever seen. Better outfits are seen at 2am at Walmart than the ensembles she normally picks out. Those pants! Patterns are not your friend, Catelynn! And the bright ugly hair doesn’t fit her 45 year old look...maybe she’s trying to look younger? She just looks like a fool. 

[Rebecca]

45 minutes ago, smhjess said:

Is it possible this many people on TM and TM2 really have a bipolar diagnosis?  This seems improbably high.

I think there needs to be some studies on behaviors of people with a bunch of extra time, easy money on their hands and something of a celebrity status. I don’t want to ramble on but I think that all the extra time and the level of narcissism they all now have plays a big part in their behavior, which could appear as (hypo)mania or depression depending on other factors going on. I’m super sleep deprived right now but I don’t think they all can possibly have bipolar disorder. For what it’s worth I DO have bipolar II disorder. I don’t see it in Amber much at all. BORDERLINE now, oh God, yes! And probably depression but have we ever seen anything that looks like mania or even hypomania? Yeah, she gets mad and agitation is part of it but she doesn’t seem to have any other symptoms. 

Anyway, as someone who was diagnosed more than 15 years ago, I’ve noticed a huuuuuuuuuuge jump in the number of Americans diagnosed. It’s insane and there has to be many misdiagnoses, imo. I also, for what it’s worth, have a (not used ?) BA in psychology.

Tyler could possibly be the only one who actually is bipolar, imo. I think others are more likely to be NARCISSISTIC, borderline, sociopathic (Jenelle) and/or dependent and histrionic personalities. (Tyler probably has some of those too.)

(sorry, I rambled. Sleep deprivation.)

Edited April 24, 2018 by Rebecca

[kicksave]

15 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Tyler's looking mighty thin and my best guess wouldn't be from working out and eating right  . Judging from how he was acting tonight , I'm gonna say he wants a 3 month vacation in a rehab as well .. he saw how much cate loved it and probably decided to jump on the bandwagon . 

There was something just a little unnerving to me about Tyler and the pot smoking throwaway...he's got a father with a chronic drug addiction problem, a mother in law with an alcoholism, a wife with serious mental health issues and pot smoking problem herself and he's laughing about how he smokes with his friends? Shouldn't he be the one that is sober and coherent as he is the primary care giver for Nova? I mean his family history of addiction should be enough to keep him from the things that are triggers for those close to him. Drew just laughed about it and made a joke about the horse getting a contact high when Tyler smokes in the barn. When he gets high, who is watching Nova? I agree that Tyler was extremely thin and seemed wired. And if I heard correctly, Tyler was diagnosed as bipolar??? Good grief... Perhaps it might be time for someone from CPS in Michigan to make home visit and see what the hell is going on in that house.

[StayingAfterSunday]

15 hours ago, A-Lo said:

In which did he look older?  I'm curious.

Dr. Drew looked different, i.e. younger, in the sit-down interview with Ryan, MacKenzie, etc. It was the classic "just-got-Botox injections" face.  It looked as though he had trouble moving his mouth to talk or smile.  

4 hours ago, leighroda said:

This is super nit picky, I can admit I’m being petty, but it drives me absolutely mad when Amber refers to “borderline medication” there is no pharmaceutical treatment for borderline, and if you’re going to go on national television and act like you are some kind of expert with your friend Cate you need to be able to use the correct terms. 

The difference between borderline and bipolar when it comes to medication is there is medication to treat bipolar disorder, the medications effect the neuroreceptors that cause the manic/depressed episodes. Meanwhile with borderline you can treat some of the symptoms with medication ie depression, but there is still a lot that isn’t known or understood about the brain when it comes to borderline personality disorder, thus there is no specific borderline medication because it’s not fully understood how to go about treating it specifically. It’s not a differentiation I expect a layperson to make, but a lay person isn’t going on national television using mental health to promote themselves. 

One key factor that differentiates these two conditions is that one has a physiological basis while the other (borderline) is a personality disorder, although mental illness, as you stated, may co-exist with borderline personality disorder.  

[DudeLeaveMeAlone]

3 hours ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Oh, and her LGBT quote after Dr. Drew asked her if there was anything she wanted to say for her last appearance on Teen Mom: "I just feel proud of me standing up and.. just keep it in mind every other woman, every other experience, everybody who is in the LGBTQ community who has shared about... me doing what is right always trying to choose and make the right choices... navigating my life and everyone else is kind of going through similar situations. So I'm happy that... I didn't let people break me from my core which I felt this production was doing and many other people around me and, not to say anything negative, those are just my feelings, and I'm happy that I expressed that on social media and everywhere where I work and hopefully I get a better environment because of me choosing to life a different life."

How long did it take to transcribe this? How many times did you have to pause and rewind, just to confirm SHE ACTUALLY SAID ALL THIS??

[CofCinci]

Does Farrah do girl/girl porn now? Perhaps she considers herself somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum?

[kicksave]

2 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I think there needs to be some studies on behaviors of people with a bunch of extra time, easy money on their hands and something of a celebrity status. I don’t want to ramble on but I think that all the extra time and the level of narcissism they all now have plays a big part in their behavior, which could appear as (hypo)mania or depression depending on other factors going on. I’m super sleep deprived right now but I don’t think they all can possibly have bipolar disorder. For what it’s worth I DO have bipolar II disorder. I don’t see it in Amber much at all. BORDERLINE now, oh God, yes! And probably depression but have we ever seen anything that looks like mania or even hypomania? Yeah, she gets mad and agitation is part of it but she doesn’t seem to have any other symptoms. 

Anyway, as someone who was diagnosed more than 15 years ago, I’ve noticed a huuuuuuuuuuge jump in the number of Americans diagnosed. It’s insane and there has to be many misdiagnoses, imo. 

Tyler could possibly be the only one who actually is bipolar, imo. 

So true! Both franchises have several people with bipolar diagnosis! Jenelle, Kailyn, Amber, Tyler...am I missing someone? And yeah...Amber is not bipolar...I grew up with a mother who was bipolar and the mood swings from hypomania to deep melancholia depression were severe and hell to live through. Amber is lethargic and almost devoid of any kind of energy at all. Depressed? check. BPD? check. Bipolar? not so much.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

12 minutes ago, DudeLeaveMeAlone said:

How long did it take to transcribe this? How many times did you have to pause and rewind, just to confirm SHE ACTUALLY SAID ALL THIS??

Honestly? More than any sane person should have spent transcribing it.  I blame this show for killing my sanity.

[Rebecca]

4 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Honestly? More than any sane person should have spent transcribing it.  I blame this show for killing my sanity.

It has taken the sanity of most to all of the participants too.. ? 

[FairyDusted]

4 hours ago, lezlers said:

I had to turn it off during Amber's water works.  She's such a goddamn gaslighter.   All of her angst this season was due to her OWN BEHAVIOR.  I can't with that narcissistic ass.  

Mac truck is a piece of WORK.   I'm no Sad Panda fan but the guy is an actual doctor that specializes in addiction.  I think he might, just MIGHT, know a little bit more about this stuff than YOU, Mac.  Her problem is she doesn't want Ryan to have anything to do with Maci, period, and she's too immature and self absorbed to realize that cutting off contact is not an option when you have a child involved.  She doesn't WANT there to be a solution outside of having a court order and having no contact whatsoever outside of a third party child exchange.  She refuses to take any responsibility or admit any fault on her and Ryan's part in this whole clusterfuck.  Her immaturity and nastiness towards Drew was amazing.  She has really let her 10th string, z list celebrity go to her head.  I haaaaaaaaate her.  

I'm definitely gonna need something rolled tight to finish watching tonight!  (BTW, my dream is to have a little PPP party with my fellow previously tvers and hate watch the shit out of this show!)

Come on over! PPP

[guilfoyleatpp]

11 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

It has taken the sanity of most to all of the participants too.. ? 

It begs the question...would any of the girls have been able to mitigate the effects of their mental illness had they NOT appeared on a television show for the past 10 years? I find it unlikely that the show caused the mental illness, but I wonder how much the exposure and encouragement from people "making good TV" has exacerbated it.

[StayingAfterSunday]

21 minutes ago, kicksave said:

So true! Both franchises have several people with bipolar diagnosis! Jenelle, Kailyn, Amber, Tyler...am I missing someone? And yeah...Amber is not bipolar...I grew up with a mother who was bipolar and the mood swings from hypomania to deep melancholia depression were severe and hell to live through. Amber is lethargic and almost devoid of any kind of energy at all. Depressed? check. BPD? check. Bipolar? not so much.

Agreed.  Bipolar is overdiagnosed.  A person's drug use may complicate a medical practitioner's diagnosis.  The challenge of making an accurate diagnosis of bipolar disorder becomes less straightforward if a person is using drugs to self medicate his bipolar condition or if his "bipolar" symptoms are a direct result of his drug use. 

[shoovenbooty]

5 hours ago, Chickabiddy said:

Maybe so, but that it was the very first thing and only thing she said about her sister makes me err on the side of narcissism. She could have said, "Nova is so fun and we look alike!" 

But no, it was all about how Nova looked like her. Me me me. She is def Cate's daughter.

But...do you really believe Cate and Tyler's version of the conversation? In the past they have claimed Carly said things during their visits, like when she supposedly called Tyler "Daddy" when Brandon wasn't around ("Look at me, Daddy! Watch me, Daddy!") which I don't buy for a second. I think it's more likely that Cate and Tyler prodded Carly ("Doesn't Nova look just like you? She does! She looks just like you!") rather than Carly saying it herself, then they turned it around and said that Carly said it.

Cate and Tyler want us all to believe that Carly misses her "real" family (Cate, crying on the porch of the NC beach house after the last visit: "You can tell she misses us!"), and that they're all going to be reunited after Brandon and Teresa babysat her for them for 18 years. I think Cate and Tyler are full of crap about a lot of things.

[ghoulina]

53 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

Every person on that stage was delusional. I do think Jen is slightly less delusional than the others but she’s also the Queen enabler so she’s not able to be the one to get the rest to face the facts and wants to deny them herself. Yeah 

I agree with this. I think Jenn knows what's up, but she is too scared to say anything. She doesn't want to anger Larry or risk losing Ryan....and now she has Mack to contend with. She probably cries in the shower a lot. 

 

47 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

Tyler could possibly be the only one who actually is bipolar, imo. I think others are more likely to be NARCISSISTIC, borderline, sociopathic (Jenelle) and/or dependent and histrionic personalities. (Tyler probably has some of those too.)

Agree with your entire post, but especially this. I really see it in Tyler. Amber is definitely borderline. Who else on this shiftest, or TM2, has claimed Bi-Polar? I see Leah as Borderline, a lot like Amber. Kail is just an asshole, IMO. 

[Caseysgirl]

Years ago when white trash girls got pregnant when they were teenagers, they either relegated the responsibilty to family or they grew up and became halfway decent parents.  These girls were given an unbelievable advantage and they have all squandered it. ( Because I don't think becoming a z-list porn star is the mark of success).  They have, however, been encouraged to lanquish in their mental illnesses and substance abuse in the search for a good storyline.  Do you think that Tanya or April were able to make money off of their issues when they were teen moms?  Not that they are a shining example but without the vocabulary and the money  to indulge in your failings, you just push through and struggle on. Like the rest of the world!

[Rebecca]

22 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

It begs the question...would any of the girls have been able to mitigate the effects of their mental illness had they NOT appeared on a television show for the past 10 years? I find it unlikely that the show caused the mental illness, but I wonder how much the exposure and encouragement from people "making good TV" has exacerbated it.

I didn’t necessarily mean anyone’s actual mental disorders, just that most of them act insane, it was a joke mostly but I’ve wanted more research on the effects of reality tv participation on people with personality disorders for a long time. 

Obviously reality tv isn’t going to cause things like bipolar disorder but it HAS TO negatively exacerbate  personality disorders such as NPD, in my opinion. 

Someone like Farrah, who had somewhat of a snotty and deluded attitude during her 16 and P has gotten more and more delusional, paranoid and narcissistic as we have watched her over the years on these shows. It seems like she could have NPD, made worse by the attention and money, which have allowed her to get further and further from reality. If she had never gotten on the show she’d probably still get her narcissist supply from somewhere but I don’t see how it would be possible for her to be at the level she is without the show and everything that came with it. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Rebecca

[WhosThatGirl]

My problem is that no one on these shows (including teen mom 2 with the only exception being Chelsea and she still has moments sometimes when she gets mad at the editing of the show and makes something out of nothing) is likeable to me and I will go through the list of all of them on tm og right now,

Maci seems to think a lot of herself. And yes she’s a decent mom and she’s a better parent than Ryan but still. I can’t get over her attitude about everything.  

Tyler and Cate are both drama queens. I feel for Tyler more but he can still be a crappy person as well.  But I feel they both have a tendency to blame others or the situations and not taking responsibility for their actions.

Amber like someone else said has made herself a victim in a situation where she clearly isn’t. Even when mtv is trying really hard to get us to see her as one it never quite works.

And Farrah. Farrah is just an awful person but i did get a laugh out of her segment with Dr. Panda. She clearly doesn’t like him. And when he was like “I’m feeling all these emotions knowing this is the last time we will talk” and she was all “yup. Bye!” I wonder if dr. Panda was getting nervous that the shows might actually end and he won’t have a standing gig to interview them. 

[Rebecca]

I don’t blame Farrah for being a bitch to Drew. She knows he’s full of shit and doesn’t really watch the show or care. MTV freaking fired her, why should she play nice? I’m assuming she was contractually obligated to film a reunion segment in some form and that’s why she was there. If I got fired from my job I wouldn’t want to then sit around and make nice with the fake ass PR rep to get my final check or whatever.

(The reason I assume they were obligated to film a reunion interview is because why the fuck would Ryan have gone otherwise? He clearly didn’t want to be there.)

Edited April 24, 2018 by Rebecca

[Wicked Biscuit]

1 hour ago, smhjess said:

Is it possible this many people on TM and TM2 really have a bipolar diagnosis?  This seems improbably high.

I normally just lurk and giggle at everyone's clever posts, but I actually know this! (I work on the genetics of bipolar disorder.) About 4% of the US population has some form of bipolar so yes, if we were looking at a random sample of 9 people ( for the 8 original moms + Tyler), it would be an improbably high number. However, these are all people who had teenage pregnancies, so they're not a random sample. There's some evidence of a greater probability of having a teenage pregnancy if you're bipolar (or will be bipolar). So while all the participants who have claimed a bipolar diagnosis might not actually be cases, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were multiple individuals who really do have it.

As an aside, one reason there's an increase in the number of diagnoses is the requirements for having bipolar in the DSM have changed and become broader. We still don't have a great understanding of what exactly bipolar disorder is.

[guilfoyleatpp]

46 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I didn’t necessarily mean anyone’s actual mental disorders, just that most of them act insane, it was a joke mostly but I’ve wanted more research on the effects of reality tv participation on people with personality disorders for a long time. 

Obviously reality tv isn’t going to cause things like bipolar disorder but it HAS TO negatively exacerbate  personality disorders such as NPD, in my opinion. 

Oops, didn't mean to imply that you were saying "reality tv causes mental illness," I was trying to explain enough to cover my ass that I also wasn't saying "reality tv causes mental illness." We're definitely on the same page.

23 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

(The reason I assume they were obligated to film a reunion interview is because why the fuck would Ryan have gone otherwise? He clearly didn’t want to be there.)

Pretty sure that's the case also. 

[Unconfused]

I just wanted to say that I really enjoy this place and the discussions so much better than Reddit. Over there if you try to give your ‘unpopular’ opinion over things like mental health or addiction it becomes a complete mob mentality politically correct clusterf*ck. Here you can be honest and people can give their mature views or opposing opinions without it becoming a firing squad. Thank you ❤️

Edited April 24, 2018 by Unconfused
Grammar

[TheRealT]

13 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I don’t blame Farrah for being a bitch to Drew. She knows he’s full of shit and doesn’t really watch the show or care. MTV freaking fired her, why should she play nice? I’m assuming she was contractually obligated to film a reunion segment in some form and that’s why she was there. If I got fired from my job I wouldn’t want to then sit around and make nice with the fake ass PR rep to get my final check or whatever.

(The reason I assume they were obligated to film a reunion interview is because why the fuck would Ryan have gone otherwise? He clearly didn’t want to be there.)

I loved Farrah basically calling Drew on his bullshit. I felt like she got in some good subtle digs at him personally and the show/MTV as a whole. I don't blame her at all for refusing to discuss various topics. Why should she? They fired her from the show. You can't fire someone and expect them to do more than the absolute minimum they are required to do to get their last check. Expecting otherwise/hoping your PR rep can manipulate them into it is insulting.

Drew has been playing these manipulative, phony, money-grubbing (basically) head games with Farrah and her family since Farrah was a teenager, but he actually had the nerve to pretend to feel emotional about that stupid interview possibly being the last time they'd see each other. I think she handled it well to not go off on him. Farrah is a horrible person in many ways, but that doesn't make Drew and MTV any less slimy. I actually hold them to a higher standard since they are supposedly caring, reasonable, fair-minded professionals, so, for me, Farrah ends up "winning" the "Who's Less of an Asshole?" contest.

[kicksave]

33 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I don’t blame Farrah for being a bitch to Drew. She knows he’s full of shit and doesn’t really watch the show or care. MTV freaking fired her, why should she play nice? I’m assuming she was contractually obligated to film a reunion segment in some form and that’s why she was there. If I got fired from my job I wouldn’t want to then sit around and make nice with the fake ass PR rep to get my final check or whatever.

(The reason I assume they were obligated to film a reunion interview is because why the fuck would Ryan have gone otherwise? He clearly didn’t want to be there.)

Who cares...she was dripping in passive aggressive condescension...Dr. Drew was not, in the least, provocative or adversarial with her. She owes her "careers" to this show. If she was never on it and was just a teen girl having a baby, without the fame and money to with it, she would probably be living in some trailer park in Florida right now. She has so many mental health issues and personality disorders it boggles the mind. Her overt sexuality and identity as a porn star is disturbing and the fact that she now uses her daughter as a prop when she she gets butt injections and vaginal rejuvenation is beyond damaging for Sophia. Now that the MTV camera is not on her, we'll see how successful she is. Her mother is also a part of this mess and it should be interesting to see how she fares without the camera on her....adios to all of them.

[Rebecca]

22 minutes ago, kicksave said:

Who cares...she was dripping in passive aggressive condescension...Dr. Drew was not, in the least, provocative or adversarial with her. She owes her "careers" to this show. If she was never on it and was just a teen girl having a baby, without the fame and money to with it, she would probably be living in some trailer park in Florida right now. She has so many mental health issues and personality disorders it boggles the mind. Her overt sexuality and identity as a porn star is disturbing and the fact that she now uses her daughter as a prop when she she gets butt injections and vaginal rejuvenation is beyond damaging for Sophia. Now that the MTV camera is not on her, we'll see how successful she is. Her mother is also a part of this mess and it should be interesting to see how she fares without the camera on her....adios to all of them.

I’m not sure what any of that has to do with my post you quoted. I never said Drew was adversarial with her, I said he was full of shit, which I stand by. Yeah, MTV gave Farrah money and a platform but they made a ton of money off of her as well. And then they fired her so they both benefited and then MTV was done, fair enough but they can’t expect her to play nice in that scenario, especially since part of the reason she was fired was for being difficult. I’m surprised she wasn’t even ruder, frankly. None of what I said has anything to do with porn. No one disputes she has personality issues, I just think it was more justified in this instance. I do actually think Farrah would probably be one of the few not completely destitute without this show but we will never know now. She’s an asshole but she’s not lazy.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Rebecca

[Unconfused]

As for my opinions on this crapfest reunion:

Rhine/Mack: It is sooo clear that she enjoys stirring the pot & so badly wants the Edwards to be at odds with Maci. It may have worked at first but I’m glad that Jen & Larry seem to have come back around & stopped with the Maci hate. I still find it ridiculous how they tip-toe around Ryan & refuse to get real with him.

Amber: You are not upset because your feelings are hurt for being called out as a shitty mom, you are upset b/c your old manipulative tricks of blaming it on your ‘mental illness’ isn’t working anymore 

Cate/Ty: Cate, you are becoming Amber #2 when it comes to blaming your childhood & mental problems for sucking as a person/mom. Tyler went through just as rough of a childhood and trauma giving up Carly but he still steps up to be a dad & run your business. Tyler can still be pretty douchey at times but I have gained a lot of respect for him over the last few seasons seeing him try to break the cycle & bear the weight of everyone around him.

Farrah: Seriously, what was the point of giving her a segment? She refused to talk about anything that was brought up. For once, Deb was actually more sensable and articulate out of the two. I pray to the tv gods that Farrah will fade into obscurity & I will never have to torture my brain cells watching her on tv again!!

 

Amen.

[guilfoyleatpp]

On another note...I totally appreciate that Gary and Kristina were up front about their affair.

Obviously not an ideal situation and certainly embarrassing to admit on television, but by doing so they defused a lot of potential (and actual) criticism and speculation. It made them seem more credible.

And that's how you handle a potential PR situation.

[Mr. Miner]

8 minutes ago, Unconfused said:

Amber: You are not upset because your feelings are hurt for being called out as a shitty mom, you are upset b/c your old manipulative tricks of blaming it on your ‘mental illness’ isn’t working anymore 

Shithead Amber is going to get a chance to prove to us she's a good mom in about 3 weeks. I predict a total shit show.

[Unconfused]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Minor said:

Shithead Amber is going to get a chance to prove to us she's a good mom in about 3 weeks. I predict a total shit show.

Yes. Hagrid is going to wish he had just stayed a groundskeeper at Hogwarts

[TresGatos]

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

To have the one person you knew as your father fade from your life, to have no idea who your real father is,

I wonder if he would be interested in doing an Ancestry DNA test to see if it shakes loose any paternal relatives? On the other hand, judging by his mom, you might not want to associate with what falls from that particular tree.

It sounds like Carly dodged more than a couple of bullets on her way to adoption.

[Unconfused]

18 hours ago, TexasGal said:

Social efforts in adult entertainment?  Mmmmmkay. 

Why did she even agree to be part of the reunion if she was just not going to talk about anything?  She’s so weird.

Because her broke ass needed the lip injection $$

[Unconfused]

18 hours ago, Quita said:

I believe he said April.

 

18 hours ago, Quita said:

I believe he said April.

Also, did anyone notice when Cate was talking about visiting Butch at rehab she said ‘we’ll even bring Dixie’

So she’ll be sure to bring the dog to Texas but no mention of Nova. Sounds about right 

[druzy]

16 minutes ago, Unconfused said:

 

Also, did anyone notice when Cate was talking about visiting Butch at rehab she said ‘we’ll even bring Dixie’

So she’ll be sure to bring the dog to Texas but no mention of Nova. Sounds about right 

I was wondering who Dixie was.

[guilfoyleatpp]

20 minutes ago, Unconfused said:

 

Also, did anyone notice when Cate was talking about visiting Butch at rehab she said ‘we’ll even bring Dixie’

So she’ll be sure to bring the dog to Texas but no mention of Nova. Sounds about right 

OMFG thank you! I have been trying to figure out who the fuck "Dixie" is. I wondered briefly if it was her horse and then got a giggle at her trying to put a horse on a plane. lol.

[Unconfused]

3 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

OMFG thank you! I have been trying to figure out who the fuck "Dixie" is. I wondered briefly if it was her horse and then got a giggle at her trying to put a horse on a plane. lol.

LMAO! She’ll stow the anxiety horse & Nova together in the cargo

[heatherchandler]

2 hours ago, StayingAfterSunday said:

Agreed.  Bipolar is overdiagnosed.  A person's drug use may complicate a medical practitioner's diagnosis.  The challenge of making an accurate diagnosis of bipolar disorder becomes less straightforward if a person is using drugs to self medicate his bipolar condition or if his "bipolar" symptoms are a direct result of his drug use. 

Right!  A person abusing drugs may wonder why they are on an emotional rollercoaster, one minute anxious and off the wall, the next minute depressed and crying, and not attribute it to the drugs.  I know this sounds crazy to most thinking people, but it happens a lot.

[CofCinci]

43 minutes ago, druzy said:

I was wondering who Dixie was.

Not Dixie Carter...

Julia Sugarbaker is my spirit animal. I wish she’d host these reunions. 

[FairyDusted]

LOL! I miss Dixie Carter. Her Julia would make a great host though. I'll settle for Judge Judy.

[lampwick]

I want to echo all of the posters who said that these people were already damaged before the show - that’s why we see more disorders.  Reality tv requires participants to bring the crazy.  Well adjusted people don’t go on reality tv- best case scenario, a person may think they will go on reality tv to promote something they are selling, but even that is fraught with risk because you have no control over your image or your brand - so definitely ill advised.  I think only desperate people would resort to reality tv - or those narcissists who have nothing to lose and are bored.  

As far as reality tv exacerbating a condition, I think it’s like Pavlov’s dog conditioning.  The participants learn or understand that certain behaviors are rewarded, whether it be bonuses, job security, etc. such that they start acting a certain way and then it becomes ingrained.  Social media adds to this lunacy.  YMMV.

[TheRealT]

2 hours ago, Rebecca said:

Yeah, MTV gave Farrah money and a platform but they made a ton of money off of her as well.

I feel like this point is overlooked way too often and it's why I could never get on board with "MTV should pay them less/they shouldn't get paid at all for being irresponsible and stupid" arguments. "The talent" in scripted TV shows often have a host of personal flaws/problems, but no one thinks they should work for free/cheap because of that. On this and other reality shows, "the talent" is essentially paid to be fucked up, so I don't see why that means the network, production company, their employees, etc. "deserve" to make money from the shows but the people whose lives/families/psyches are being exploited don't.

1 hour ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

On another note...I totally appreciate that Gary and Kristina were up front about their affair.

Obviously not an ideal situation and certainly embarrassing to admit on television, but by doing so they defused a lot of potential (and actual) criticism and speculation. It made them seem more credible.

And that's how you handle a potential PR situation.

Yeah, Gary and Kristina are awesome. Amber is garbage.

1 hour ago, Unconfused said:

Yes. Hagrid is going to wish he had just stayed a groundskeeper at Hogwarts

I CANNOT WAIT until Amber births their "lovechild" and nuMatt gets snapped into reality HARDCORE. He pissed me the fuck off talking (ridiculous) shit about Gary. A year from now, Amber will be cussing him out from her bed while he does 100% of the work taking care of their child, while probably enduring physical abuse when he doesn't shut the crying baby up fast enough or pisses Amber off in any other way. He will probably be the primary motivator to go get Leah for visits because she will help wait on/appease Amber and/or take care of the baby (so he can take a shower, make dinner, go grocery shopping, or have a moment to himself). He'll be plotting a way to escape, either with or without the baby, and (I hope) remembering how he blamed and trashed Gary for daring to criticize Amber as a mom.

That's IF he's still around, which is a big if. The alternate possibility is that he'll take off before then, either with the baby (in which case Amber will take up with a new caretaker/soulmate within a couple of months tops) or without the baby (in which case the new soulmate/CPS/Amber's family/Gary and Kristina [DON'T DO IT!] will have to step in to care for the baby or the baby will die.

But there he was, holding Amber's hand while she fake cried and spewing the talking points she gave him about how Gary (who is basically a FUCKING SAINT where Amber is concerned) is malicious and cruel. I actually want this fuckfest of a show to last another season just so I can see all of his comeuppance in technicolor. Fuck you, nuMatt, but Karma is a bitch and she's coming for your ass very, very soon. [insert evil cackle]

1 minute ago, lampwick said:

I want to echo all of the posters who said that these people were already damaged before the show - that’s why we see more disorders.  Reality tv requires participants to bring the crazy.  Well adjusted people don’t go on reality tv- best case scenario, a person may think they will go on reality tv to promote something they are selling, but even that is fraught with risk because you have no control over your image or your brand - so definitely ill advised.  I think only desperate people would resort to reality tv - or those narcissists who have nothing to lose and are bored.  

As far as reality tv exacerbating a condition, I think it’s like Pavlov’s dog conditioning.  The participants learn or understand that certain behaviors are rewarded, whether it be bonuses, job security, etc. such that they start acting a certain way and then it becomes ingrained.  Social media adds to this lunacy.  YMMV.

In all fairness, these people have literally been encouraged, and even paid, to be dysfunctional since they were children. "Normal" people are explicitly and implicitly encouraged to adhere to certain social norms and standards (e.g., rarely/never screaming in people's faces) and usually suffer negative consequences when they fail to do so. For them, it's largely been the opposite. Their bosses (in the form of the producers) encourage them to be confrontational; to dwell on minor slights, sometimes for years; to relive past traumas publicly, sometimes for years; to be overly introspective/narcissistic; to pursue self-worth and validation through attention seeking; etc.; etc. And all of that is reinforced by the public literally every single day of their lives (through social media). The show and all that comes with it has also colored their personal relationships with friends and family, even their children, since they were children themselves. I think that, especially for "reality stars" like the TM crew, who have been on the shows for so long with many of their family members/close friends, the experience is similar to being in a prison camp or something in terms of its (largely negative) psychological effects on them. Not to trivialize being in a prison camp, but my point is, I think it's an experience that is almost universally damaging, though it affects/damages different people in different ways and to different degrees. On top of that, most of them come from at least somewhat troubled backgrounds even before the show. And the big money for little work, parasitic people pursuing them for money/fame, etc., etc. don't help either. The "TM Experience" isn't what any knowledgeable parent/youth development professional would advise for any young person, much less people who are dealing with teen parenthood on top of whatever other personal issues.

[lampwick]

Yeah, the strangest example of the behavior conditioning I referred to in my last post is Cate/Tyler.  I mean I can’t imagine either of them would be dwelling on Carly to the extreme that they have if not for it being their storyline.   If they weren’t on the show, they likely wouldn’t be thinking about Carly seemingly every other day of their lives since they gave her up.  They would move on with life, thinking about her occasionally, maybe having regrets, or not, but moving on nonetheless.  The show actually doesn’t allow them to do that - otherwise they wouldn’t have a storyline.  (Nova’s arrival brought a reprieve from that storyline, but still.)

[Christina]

After realizing I had about 90 minutes to kill, I decided to watch the Tell Nothing. Stupid decision. I should have watched Bosch and read here. Not only was it boring, everyone looked awful. The hair and makeup is always bad, and Maci's complection has always been rough, but with the exception of Drew, Jen and Taylor, everyone had a very puffy and bloated faces with poor complections. I've never noticed it before and it was distracting staring at them and trying to figure out what was wrong and why they looked off to me.

Where was Amber stampeding across the stage like a hippo that got loose from the circus and swinging her arms like she's trying to punch someone from three feet away? Ryan had at least half a dozen chances to yell "Monkey!!" but didn't. When Drew tried to give him an out on the medication, asking if it was prescribed for an injury and he said, "It was prescribed..." I started yelling bullsh-- "...but it was recreational." he finished. He's been popping pills since he was a teenager, and it was rumored way back then to be opiates and ecstasy. I'm glad to hear that he isn't trying to downplay it by claiming he started with a legitimate injury because he didn't. At least he's honest about that bit of his addiction.

[toodywoody]

6 hours ago, Kazu said:

She is such a manipulative trick. 

Cate talking to herself:

"Oh, oh. Tyler is going to tell me the truth of how he feels. I need to push out crocodile tears."

"This dude wants to talk to me about something serious. I will tell him to just leave me and then put on my crying act because it always works."

"Doesn't Tyler get it? His feelings don't matter. It is MY feelings that matter."

"Tyler is wanting to leave. I better come up with a plan. Maybe I can tell him I am pregnant."

"Shit. He still doesn't seem happy about the pregnancy. Now, I am going to have to pretend I had a miscarriage. I will make a mess in the bathroom when my period starts."
"Tyler looks like he is ready to check out. I will have a full-on fake anxiety attack and claim I want to kill myself."

"Tyler looks unhappy. I need to go back to Arizona."

Cate and Amber have mastered the art of victim status.

Fuck you Cate for your tone and attitude towards Butch. That guy, for all his faults, at least has accomplished more in his treatments and truly wants to better his life. He knows what it is like to be clean and sober and wants to get to that point again. Cate just wants to continue to simmer in her filth and stagnant existence while trying to hold Tyler down with her.

This I love and is perfect. Her and Amber bring on the tears any time something tells them any kind of truth.

Thank you ghoulina.

[happykitteh]

2 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Not Dixie Carter...

Julia Sugarbaker is my spirit animal. I wish she’d host these reunions. 

 

2 hours ago, FairyDusted said:

LOL! I miss Dixie Carter. Her Julia would make a great host though. I'll settle for Judge Judy.

It would be the so incredibly awesome to see either one of these strong, no nonsense women go after these lazy, whiney entitled bitches! 

[woodscommaelle]

My mom told me she thought Mackenzie had a striking appearance. Like, in a positive way. Whaaaa? I said 'that's a 40 year old soccer mom you're looking at.' (Not that soccer moms look bad. Just her).

Edited April 25, 2018 by woodscommaelle

[happykitteh]

6 hours ago, Rebecca said:

 

 

Someone like Farrah, who had somewhat of a snotty and deluded attitude during her 16 and P has gotten more and more delusional, paranoid and narcissistic as we have watched her over the years on these shows. It seems like she could have NPD, made worse by the attention and money, which have allowed her to get further and further from reality. If she had never gotten on the show she’d probably still get her narcissist supply from somewhere but I don’t see how it would be possible for her to be at the level she is without the show and everything that came with it. 

I think the show definitely brought out and worsened whatever personality disorder Farrah has. I don't think Farrah would be the mega bitch she is without the show because in order to hold a job in the real world you cannot speak to the people you work with, let alone your bosses, the way she has on the show. She would have learned to control her impulses or sought help if it meant doing so or being unemployed. The money and "fame" made her feel she was special and better than others which in turn made her feel it was okay to treat them like crap. If she continues with her "adult entertainment" career she'd better rein in the bitchy and attitude because those she works with in that industry aren't going to put up with her crap anymore than an office job would. MTV did since, for awhile at least, her crazy brought rating, but even there she pushed it to the point she wasn't worth the trouble.

5 hours ago, Rebecca said:

 I do actually think Farrah would probably be one of the few not completely destitute without this show but we will never know now. She’s an asshole but she’s not lazy.

I agree Farrah, and probably Tyler, wouldn't be content to sit around feeding off the taxpayers teat collecting food stamps and living in Section 8 housing because they have a dependent child like Amber, Cate and Maci would have been happy to do. 

I think had it not been for the show Tyler would have moved away, gotten away from Cate and his  messed up family,  found a job and maybe continued his schooling. He's an attention whore, to be sure, and a poseur, but he does seem to want better in life than what he grew up with. Cate seems she would be content with the living a shit life if the alternative was getting off her ass to do better.

Cate wants Butch to keep his ass in Texas so she can have ALL of Tyler's attention. If he comes back and relapses Tyler will be spending time caring for him. If he doesn't relapse Cate will have to listen to Tyler talk of how proud he is of his dad and Tyler will be spending time with him getting to know the sober Butch. Lose/ lose situation for Cate.

[mamadrama]

25 minutes ago, happykitteh said:

 

I think had it not been for the show Tyler would have moved away, gotten away from Cate and his  messed up family,  found a job and maybe continued his schooling. He's an attention whore, to be sure, and a poseur, but he does seem to want better in life than what he grew up with. Cate seems she would be content with the living a shit life if the alternative was getting off her ass to do better.

Cate wants Butch to keep his ass in Texas so she can have ALL of Tyler's attention. If he comes back and relapses Tyler will be spending time caring for him. If he doesn't relapse Cate will have to listen to Tyler talk of how proud he is of his dad and Tyler will be spending time with him getting to know the sober Butch. Lose/ lose situation for Cate.

The one thing I give Tyler credit for is his ambition. He doesn't know how to hustle like Farrah but he does seem to want a better life and at least tries to do something about it. He hops from one passion project to the next, but I guess that's a little better than his wife (who does little to nothing). If he had a good mentor in his life, someone to kind of rein him in and give him solid advice, he might do well. 

[Stusan]

On 4/23/2018 at 9:18 PM, A-Lo said:

In which did he look older?  I'm curious.

Sorry for the late reply, @A-Lo.

IMO he looked older and more haggard in his interview with Farrah vs. the full-on reunion show.

Then again, trying to talk to Farrah might make anyone look haggard.

[gunderda]

On 4/23/2018 at 8:42 PM, Brooklynista said:

I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline so help me out. Butch stayed in rehab and skipped the reunion to work on his sobriety but Cate left rehab even though she was having suicidal thoughts?

For the reunion she left rehab a few days (or maybe a week?) early.  It wasn't some hinky Ryan schedule.

On 4/23/2018 at 9:00 PM, druzy said:

What did Farrah say about the LBGT community? 

She seems to combine her "adult entertainment" and LGBT together... as if her porn makes her part of that community.  It's really bizarre. 

 

On 4/23/2018 at 11:56 PM, Kazu said:

I have a feeling "She looks just like you" has been said to Nova countless times by Catelynn. There were a few times she said it to her on camera. That is why Nova was able to say it so well. Catelynn probably says it through the baby monitor to Nova as she is lying in her bed trying to go to sleep night after night.

Cate said that Carly was the one who said it, not Nova.  Although she tends to post full on conversations she's had with Nova on social media so who knows

19 hours ago, kicksave said:

There was something just a little unnerving to me about Tyler and the pot smoking throwaway...he's got a father with a chronic drug addiction problem, a mother in law with an alcoholism, a wife with serious mental health issues and pot smoking problem herself and he's laughing about how he smokes with his friends? Shouldn't he be the one that is sober and coherent as he is the primary care giver for Nova? I mean his family history of addiction should be enough to keep him from the things that are triggers for those close to him. Drew just laughed about it and made a joke about the horse getting a contact high when Tyler smokes in the barn. When he gets high, who is watching Nova? I agree that Tyler was extremely thin and seemed wired. And if I heard correctly, Tyler was diagnosed as bipolar??? Good grief... Perhaps it might be time for someone from CPS in Michigan to make home visit and see what the hell is going on in that house.

Before the reunion he changed his eating habits and worked to get back into better shape so he had lots a good chunk of weight. 

18 hours ago, Rebecca said:

I don’t blame Farrah for being a bitch to Drew. She knows he’s full of shit and doesn’t really watch the show or care. MTV freaking fired her, why should she play nice? I’m assuming she was contractually obligated to film a reunion segment in some form and that’s why she was there. If I got fired from my job I wouldn’t want to then sit around and make nice with the fake ass PR rep to get my final check or whatever.

(The reason I assume they were obligated to film a reunion interview is because why the fuck would Ryan have gone otherwise? He clearly didn’t want to be there.)

To me it's super scary how Farrah can go from super professional and pleasant to mega bitch in a second. And then refuse to talk about anything.