S05.E17: The Honeymoon

[Cranberry]

Quote

While an agent’s life hangs in the balance, Fitz, Simmons and Yo-Yo attempt to neutralize a weapon that could play a role in Earth’s destruction.

 

Sorry, guys, forgot to make this thread yesterday! But anyone can make these; a mod doesn't have to do it -- so feel free if there hasn't been one made by discussion time! We usually grab the ep description from TVDB.

[greekmom]

My thoughts. (first thank you Canadian channels who didn't get cut into their programming!)

1. I feel so bad for FitzSimmons and YoYo..

2. I hope Daisy beats the crap out of snot nose Ruby and Stucker Jr.

3. Give me more Deke on drugs.  I was hoping he would tell Mack about his granny and bobo.

4. Damn it - Talbot is a sleeper agent for Hydra. Those bastards for breaking the man. I hope May beats the crap out of them. 

[Froippi]

So from what I got from this episode both Daisy option and FitzSimmons option were both bad options 

 

also I did not like the silly ship stuff 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Froippi

[AimingforYoko]

May finally dropped the ILY. Pretty big for the taciturn May.

[thuganomics85]

When Deke got shot, I just imagine somewhere in England, Fitz suddenly felt a warm and fuzzy feeling, like an obnoxious weight has been lifted off his shoulder.  Frankly, I really wouldn't be surprised if/when he finds out, he's just like "Oh, I guess that sucks.  I hope you didn't waste too much medical supplies on him."  After all, he's at the stage now where he's even casually saying maybe it was a good thing Yo-Yo got her arms cut off.  Oh, Fitz, you're so crazy!

Mack and Piper playing surgical doctors was something I never knew I wanted.  And their reactions to Deke's drug-fueled declarations of Daisy love even got chuckles out of a mainly overused plot point.

Speaking of the l word, May just totally dropped that on Coulson!  Holy crap, that my be the biggest shocker of all time!  I wasn't sure that was even in Melinda's vocabulary.

Hale's learn the hard way that the old "the student becomes the master" saying isn't just for show.  Ruby and Strucker Jr. have gone rogue!  While I've mainly been indifferent towards Dove Cameron's style of robotic acting, I did enjoy how she played Ruby's clearly twisted and unhinged obsession towards Daisy.

Yo-Yo takes out Anton, but since he's pretty much a Terminator at this point, I'm sure another version will pop up again.

Definitely interesting how once bullets started flying, Simmons suddenly wasn't all "I am invincible!" about it.

Well, shit!  Talbot's apparently a sleeper agent now.  Really hope they find a way to resolve this that doesn't end with the death of my beloved, crusty, cranky general!

[RandomWatcher]

21 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

When Deke got shot, I just imagine somewhere in England, Fitz suddenly felt a warm and fuzzy feeling, like an obnoxious weight has been lifted off his shoulder.  Frankly, I really wouldn't be surprised if/when he finds out, he's just like "Oh, I guess that sucks.  I hope you didn't waste too much medical supplies on him."  After all, he's at the stage now where he's even casually saying maybe it was a good thing Yo-Yo got her arms cut off.  Oh, Fitz, you're so crazy!

Mack and Piper playing surgical doctors was something I never knew I wanted.  And their reactions to Deke's drug-fueled declarations of Daisy love even got chuckles out of a mainly overused plot point.

Speaking of the l word, May just totally dropped that on Coulson!  Holy crap, that my be the biggest shocker of all time!  I wasn't sure that was even in Melinda's vocabulary.

Hale's learn the hard way that the old "the student becomes the master" saying isn't just for show.  Ruby and Strucker Jr. have gone rogue!  While I've mainly been indifferent towards Dove Cameron's style of robotic acting, I did enjoy how she played Ruby's clearly twisted and unhinged obsession towards Daisy.

Yo-Yo takes out Anton, but since he's pretty much a Terminator at this point, I'm sure another version will pop up again.

Definitely interesting how once bullets started flying, Simmons suddenly wasn't all "I am invincible!" about it.

Well, shit!  Talbot's apparently a sleeper agent now.  Really hope they find a way to resolve this that doesn't end with the death of my beloved, crusty, cranky general!

Heh, speaking of Terminator, Ghost Rider is now him

[missbonnie]

Since I dvr'd it and ABC started it late, I didn't get to see the ending. I will be hitting up on demand or Hulu I guess. 

[VCRTracking]

Me, when May finally told Coulson she loved him:

Loved the Daisy vs Ruby fight.

Aww, drugged up Deke talking about how much he likes Daisy and wanting to give a Mack a bro handshake.

Dammit, should have known there was a catch with Yoyo's arms.

Loved Jemma saying they were defending England from robots. There are worse honeymoons.

I like that Piper still wants to make up for what happened.

Fuck, Talbot's brainwashed.

Edited April 14, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Lantern7]

Funny . ..  I was napping, overslept, turned on ABC to see how much I missed, and I was early by about ten minutes. Huh.

I liked "Deke After Dentist." Of course the other cast members never got goofy after their respective surgeries, but Deke is a buttmonkey. That makes it okay. He was asking to get shot. I don't think he'll live past the finale . . . though if he does and winds up involved with Daisy, that would be weird. Especially for the grandparents.

Talbot is broken. Talbot wants to do the right thing. Talbot has the same coding in his brain as Bucky Barnes, and he's gonna Winter Solider all over Daisy . . . only with an obnoxious mustache instead of a bionic arm. Hey, if Bucky survives the next movie and Elena lives, you think he could hook her up with arms that aren't risky to attach right into stumps? Or Elena could go to Wakanda. They probably got nothing but bionic arms, all stamped with Shuri's seal of approval.

Wow, Ruby totally snowballed her mother. I'm so shocked, you guys . . .

[Froippi]

Someone correct me if i’m Wrong but Deke not following orders has massive consequences one Ruby could of been capture and two FitzSimmons could have destroy the chamber 

[kitlee625]

Well meaning or not, I rolled my eyes when Daisy broke protocol only to accidentally activate Talbot's sleeper programming. Not exactly the best decision from the future SHIELD director. I get that Daisy just loves what a good dad Talbot is, but I think anyone could have predicted that it's not a good idea to make non-essential phone calls when you're hiding out. Talbot's wife knows and trusts Hale, making it easy for Hale to get to Talbot's wife despite Daisy's best technobabble.

Which reminds me, how many crises on this show are from the characters' own foolish actions/mistakes? Because I feel like this is something that happens way more than it should for super spies.

 

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Hale's learn the hard way that the old "the student becomes the master" saying isn't just for show.  Ruby and Strucker Jr. have gone rogue!  While I've mainly been indifferent towards Dove Cameron's style of robotic acting, I did enjoy how she played Ruby's clearly twisted and unhinged obsession towards Daisy.

 

I liked seeing her obsession with Daisy too, and I also really liked seeing her manipulate her mom like that. 

3 hours ago, Froippi said:

Someone correct me if i’m Wrong but Deke not following orders has massive consequences one Ruby could of been capture and two FitzSimmons could have destroy the chamber 

Perhaps, but even without Deke, Hale was coming after Daisy with guns blazing. She could have also been shot by Hale, or at least would have had to fight Hale and her robo soldiers.

Edited April 14, 2018 by kitlee625

[Lobsel Vith]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

When Deke got shot, I just imagine somewhere in England, Fitz suddenly felt a warm and fuzzy feeling, like an obnoxious weight has been lifted off his shoulder.  Frankly, I really wouldn't be surprised if/when he finds out, he's just like "Oh, I guess that sucks.  I hope you didn't waste too much medical supplies on him."  After all, he's at the stage now where he's even casually saying maybe it was a good thing Yo-Yo got her arms cut off.  Oh, Fitz, you're so crazy!

I honestly don't get the point of Deke being shot (from a narrative perspective). He's the guy who sold Daisy into slavery. He doesn't really have any friends on the team. He's not adding contributing anything unique to the team. Even his presence on the team hasn't even been rationalized on the show (I'm talking about the decision to bring him along before his jump into the past; there's never been an excuse used to explain why he was brought along in the first pod - he was simply brought with them because he's a white man of a certain age and this show needed that spot filled).

[shrewd.buddha]

2 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

Which reminds me, how many crises on this show are from the characters' own foolish actions/mistakes? Because I feel like this is something that happens way more than it should for super spies.

It happens way too much - it is like the show's deus ex machina for problems : multiple invasions of headquarters, agent deaths, things getting blown up, etc. 
New leader Daisy really is following in Coulson's footsteps. I was surprised Daisy had the nerve to say to Mack "I left you in charge" when she found out about the mutiny. 

 

9 hours ago, Froippi said:

also I did not like the silly ship stuff 

Now, with May's declaration of love for Coulson - and Deke's declaration of feelings for Daisy -   AoS is officially "couples only". Ugh.

The conversation between May and Coulson felt a little forced to me. But you know TPTB need to stack the deck to make Coulson's maybe-death that much worse.
I thought TPTB would keep Daisy as a 'free agent' love-wise, so that she is available for sparks with guest stars characters like Ghost Rider. But maybe she is destined to have loved and lost : Lincoln, G.R., ... Deke?

Edited April 14, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Lobsel Vith said:

I honestly don't get the point of Deke being shot (from a narrative perspective). He's the guy who sold Daisy into slavery. He doesn't really have any friends on the team. He's not adding contributing anything unique to the team. Even his presence on the team hasn't even been rationalized on the show (I'm talking about the decision to bring him along before his jump into the past; there's never been an excuse used to explain why he was brought along in the first pod - he was simply brought with them because he's a white man of a certain age and this show needed that spot filled).

This season is a mess. We're apparently supposed to like the people choosing to do horrific things. I should have taken the hint with Deke, but look at the whole Fitzsimmons and Elena stuff. We're actually supposed to be rooting for them too! So I'm just going to stop questioning things and I actually ended up skipping the episode live last night because of it. I only watched it this morning.

Deke definitely disobeyed orders, which made me roll my eyes, but I can't count how many times this team has disobeyed orders and things turned mostly sideways for them. It's just another plot thing for the team to discover Fitzsimmons and Elena's betrayal. I remember reading theories before the episode that it would be Daisy who needed surgical help. Though, in hindsight, it is kind of funny to think that Fitzsimmons left the Lighthouse when their grandson needed them the most. 

Plus, ok, drugged up Deke made me chuckle. So far, the crush of his has only been one sided so if they keep it that way, then that'll be fine. At this point, I do consider what Fitz did to Daisy worse than what Deke did (and what Deke did was bad, not excusing that) because Fitz has known Daisy for years and knew what she didn't want to happen, and he still went through with it. That's very much ice cold.  Yet, Fitz's actions have officially been more whitewashed than Deke's! Coulson, in this episode, blamed Deke for disobeying orders and everyone's annoyed at Deke. But with Fitzsimmons and Elena, they "need to figure it out later". Which....great,  no anger there. That pisses me off more now. Deke's expendable and most likely going to die by the end of this season. Fitzsimmons is pretty safe and will be forgiven completely. 

I do wonder about older Yo-Yo's thing about needing to let Coulson die. Does he try to go into the machine and that somehow leads to everything? Does some other major action of Coulson trying to sacrifice himself lead to the end? But we also know Coulson doesn't make it to the Lighthouse so he dies anyway.

Unfortunately, they didn't get me on board with the Fitzsimmons and Elena stuff because of their previous actions. They tried, with them acting mostly normal to how we've known them, but it's going to take a lot more for me to be on their side again, even if they're convinced it's for the greater good. Also, now Fitzsimmons won't leave each other's side? I mean, on the one hand, smart because then they might stop having angsty situations, but on the other hand, if one's needed for a mission and one needs to be locked up for a lot longer, they're going to screw up a lot of plans.

Also, with the end, why didn't Jemma just brag to Ruby that she's invincible? I mean, she should still think that, right?

So, May tells Coulson that she loves him. This really is a slow moving romance, isn't it?

So, Hale gets bested by her daughter. The first time I was marginally interested in Hale and Ruby, to be honest. 

Poor Talbot. He really got screwed in all of this.

6 hours ago, Froippi said:

Someone correct me if i’m Wrong but Deke not following orders has massive consequences one Ruby could of been capture and two FitzSimmons could have destroy the chamber 

They had consequences, but not massive consequences. From what it sounded like, Daisy was going to try to capture Ruby, yes, but Hale and her robosoldiers were still right there. Daisy would have either had to take them all on or she would have had to carry Ruby out, but we already saw her coming to not long after anyway, so she would have still had a massive issue with Ruby in her hands. And yeah, I realize that they could have narratively had Ruby stay unconscious for longer to suit the plot, just like it was necessary for Ruby to come to in order to stare her mother in the face. 

[blueray]

Quote

Unfortunately, they didn't get me on board with the Fitzsimmons and Elena stuff because of their previous actions. They tried, with them acting mostly normal to how we've known them, but it's going to take a lot more for me to be on their side again, even if they're convinced it's for the greater good. Also, now Fitzsimmons won't leave each other's side? I mean, on the one hand, smart because then they might stop having angsty situations, but on the other hand, if one's needed for a mission and one needs to be locked up for a lot longer, they're going to screw up a lot of plans.

Me either. While it was great to see them (particularly Fitz) acting like themselves, their actions in last week's episode with Mack was completely out of character.

 

I'm sad to see Telbott as a sleeper agent. I was enjoying seeing him as a good guy. I forgot that Hale knew his wife.  And I liked seeing Mack and Piper trying to surgery as they know little to nothing about medicine. Overall, this episode felt more like just a set up for the next one.

Edited April 14, 2018 by blueray

[Raja]

25 minutes ago, blueray said:

Me either. While it was great to see them (particularly Fitz) acting like themselves, their actions in last week's episode with Mack was completely out of character.

 

I'm sad to see Telbott as a sleeper agent. I was enjoying seeing him as a good guy. I forgot that Hale knew his wife.  And I liked seeing Mack and Piper trying to surgery as they know little to nothing about medicine. Overall, this episode felt more like just a set up for the next one.

General Talbot remains a good guy. That he was broken and engineered into a Hydra sleeper doesn't change that.

It seemed to be really cheating that a mech squad drops dormant because the local Antonio LMD is destroyed. We have seen them sit dormant on a floating destroyer activated by sound or movement and act autonomously aready. I guess that they couldn't figure out how the Invincible 3 could get out of the corner that they were written into without copying The Avengers 

[TVSpectator]

11 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

I honestly don't get the point of Deke being shot (from a narrative perspective). He's the guy who sold Daisy into slavery. He doesn't really have any friends on the team. He's not adding contributing anything unique to the team. Even his presence on the team hasn't even been rationalized on the show (I'm talking about the decision to bring him along before his jump into the past; there's never been an excuse used to explain why he was brought along in the first pod - he was simply brought with them because he's a white man of a certain age and this show needed that spot filled).

I don't get why Deke is here  (other than a, "oh look he is Fitz and Simmons' future slaver grandson") and he is not really part of the story. It seems like he is only here for comedic relief but the show really doesn't need it and he is the worst character to be the comedic relief since he was also supposed to be the one that sold Daisy into slavery. 

 

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

This season is a mess. We're apparently supposed to like the people choosing to do horrific things. I should have taken the hint with Deke, but look at the whole Fitzsimmons and Elena stuff. We're actually supposed to be rooting for them too! So I'm just going to stop questioning things and I actually ended up skipping the episode live last night because of it. I only watched it this morning.

 

 

Deke aside they have been doing these things before in the past. It's just in this season they are really ramping up the whole, "well we gotta like these characters even if they do horrific things" and have also increased the number of horrific things that they have done to each other and to others, IMO. 

Deke definitely disobeyed orders, which made me roll my eyes, but I can't count how many times this team has disobeyed orders and things turned mostly sideways for them. It's just another plot thing for the team to discover Fitzsimmons and Elena's betrayal. I remember reading theories before the episode that it would be Daisy who needed surgical help. Though, in hindsight, it is kind of funny to think that Fitzsimmons left the Lighthouse when their grandson needed them the most.

Quote

Plus, ok, drugged up Deke made me chuckle. So far, the crush of his has only been one sided so if they keep it that way, then that'll be fine. At this point, I do consider what Fitz did to Daisy worse than what Deke did (and what Deke did was bad, not excusing that) because Fitz has known Daisy for years and knew what she didn't want to happen, and he still went through with it. That's very much ice cold.  Yet, Fitz's actions have officially been more whitewashed than Deke's! Coulson, in this episode, blamed Deke for disobeying orders and everyone's annoyed at Deke. But with Fitzsimmons and Elena, they "need to figure it out later". Which....great,  no anger there. That pisses me off more now. Deke's expendable and most likely going to die by the end of this season. Fitzsimmons is pretty safe and will be forgiven completely. 

What they all did to each other is pretty fucked up but the show is still forcing us to like these characters. It's like Ward all over again, IMO. Ward became a villain in Season 1 and in Season 2 they had those flashbacks to make us feel sympathy for him. The same thing is happening now to all of these characters (Fitz, Simmons, Yo-Yo, Deke) and we are just supposed to just like these characters (and if they all end up dead then I am fine with it. The show really shot itself in the foot a long time ago and I think its time to let it die, IMO). As with the revelation of Deke under drugs, that made my stomach turned. I mean they had to have him have feelings for the woman that he sold into slavery, right? They had to go there? As with his feelings, this is starting to play out like how Fitz declared his secret love for Simmons, and Coulson declaring his love for May, IMO, there is a pattern here that is repeating. 

 

8 hours ago, Raja said:

General Talbot remains a good guy. That he was broken and engineered into a Hydra sleeper doesn't change that.

It seemed to be really cheating that a mech squad drops dormant because the local Antonio LMD is destroyed. We have seen them sit dormant on a floating destroyer activated by sound or movement and act autonomously aready. I guess that they couldn't figure out how the Invincible 3 could get out of the corner that they were written into without copying The Avengers 

Remember Agent 33, she was totally brainwashed and they didn't allow her to get a pass either. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by TVSpectator

[shrewd.buddha]

Thinking about Daisy being appointed as the next leader by Coulson is irritating. Does he think SHIELD, once a government agency, is now a monarchy instead of democracy and he can pass it down to his surrogate daughter? I get that there is supposed to be a parallel between Hale/Ruby and Coulson/Daisy - - but we should be seeing the differences in leadership, not similarities. 

Every one of the other agents, including the red-shirts, have had more formal training than Skye/Daisy , who has gone rogue, AWOL and everything in between. 
And despite anything  Coulson does/says, you know none of that would matter if Nick Fury were to ever show back up and declare something about the direction of SHIELD (whether on TV or in the movies). 

The SHIELD as a fiefdom aspect and the everybody-must-be-a-couple thing makes the entire show reek of fan service and shipper wish fulfillment. Maybe the producers think they have to cater to whatever dedicated audience is left ... while I think many of these story choices is what left them with a "small but devoted fan base". 

Edited April 14, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[tennisgurl]

Everyone on this show needs to take some time off of saving the world, and spend time in some serious therapy. Everyone keeps doing really shitty things to each other or making bad choices, and it just keeps making already bad situations even worse. I almost wonder if the show is being purposeful about everyone doing increasing messed up things, because the characters are starting to full on burn out. I mean, its literally one thing after another with these guys, jumping from one high stress, usually traumatic situation to the next, with no time in between. Maybe this whole is being set up to show the team is actually falling to pieces, and need to hang duty over to other people for awhile? 

Or, they could just be upping the bad choices for dramas sake. Whatever. This seemed like something of a set up episode, and it was weird, because while everyone was basically acting like normal (including Daisy's ever present daddy issues) its come after a ton of NOT normal behavior, and its just really weird. Its like last week didnt even happen in any way that makes sense characterization wise. 

I kind of wish that Deke had just been allowed to die at the end of the space arc. I had basically forgiven him for what he did to Daisy (to an extent) and I thought that was a good ending for his character, and for that arc. Now with him around, beyond being FitzSimmons grandson, he doesn't really have much to do. I did giggle at him on drugs talking with Piper and Mack, but he doesn't seem to serve much other purpose. 

Really, I am just ready for this arc to be over, and do something else. Right now, its basically the follow up to last quarters story, but without all the stuff that made it interesting, with some of the old Hydra stuff mixed in, because Hydra is like gum stuck to your shoe. It never goes away, no matter how much you pull at it. Not that I want them to totally ignore everything last quarter, but I was hoping this Destroy of Worlds stuff would get wrapped up quickly in the first few episodes, and this second arc would be something different. Maybe where all the main characters arent total assholes? 

Poor Talbot. The guy has been pretty harshly screwed over, ever since he got shot in the freaking head, and now he`s a Hydra sleeper agent. I cant believe they didnt think of that happening, its kind of Hydras things after all! I hope they can still help him, and he wont end up getting killed by his own side after all this crap. Damn Daisy and her daddy issues! I know that she meant well, but she had to know that this could go badly, especially considering Hale knows Talbot's family personally. 

[kitlee625]

3 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

It happens way too much - it is like the show's deus ex machina for problems : multiple invasions of headquarters, agent deaths, things getting blown up, etc. 
New leader Daisy really is following in Coulson's footsteps. I was surprised Daisy had the nerve to say to Mack "I left you in charge" when she found out about the mutiny. 

I also raised my eyebrows at that one. Way to blame Mack instead of the people who went completely rogue. Or, you know, maybe Daisy should have taken their craziness more seriously.

 

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yet, Fitz's actions have officially been more whitewashed than Deke's! Coulson, in this episode, blamed Deke for disobeying orders and everyone's annoyed at Deke. But with Fitzsimmons and Elena, they "need to figure it out later". Which....great,  no anger there. That pisses me off more now. Deke's expendable and most likely going to die by the end of this season. Fitzsimmons is pretty safe and will be forgiven completely. 

I do wonder about older Yo-Yo's thing about needing to let Coulson die. Does he try to go into the machine and that somehow leads to everything? Does some other major action of Coulson trying to sacrifice himself lead to the end? But we also know Coulson doesn't make it to the Lighthouse so he dies anyway.

I wasn't surprised that the writers handwaved the Fitzler thing, but I was disappointed. I agree that I find that more egregious than what Deke did, and yet neither Deke nor Fitz are going to be facing any consequences. 

 

I do wonder if Daisy shoves Coulson in the Infuser-ator to save his life, and that leads to the Gravitonium blowing up the world.

[Froippi]

I mean the only person this episode that I felt was handwaving Fitz actions was Simmons but not surprise and let’s not pretend Fitz is the only person to get handwave with their action they never have real consequences when crap decisions our made 

 

I never expected Simmons to abandon Fitz and as much as people wanted to see it 

 

I actually have bigger issues with Deke actions his decision might be the worst even worse than Simmons breaking Fitz out cause if he listen Ruby is capture as far as I can tell Daisy even tells him that on the plane 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Froippi

[Lobsel Vith]

52 minutes ago, Froippi said:

I mean the only person this episode that I felt was handwaving Fitz actions was Simmons but not surprise and let’s not pretend Fitz is the only person to get handwave with their action they never have real consequences when crap decisions our made 

I think it's the manner in which Simmons seems to be glossing over what he's done rather than wanting to see him get real help. It would be one thing if she wanted him to get psychiatric help to get better, but it's another for her to be upset with Daisy because Fitz is now dangerous and for her to screw over Mack, who was nothing but empathetic towards her when Fitz's robot could have killed him. That there's a pattern of men like Ward (in the Framework), Deke, and now Fitz doing terrible things - and having those actions handwaved - is where the issue arises for me.

54 minutes ago, Froippi said:

I never expected Simmons to abandon Fitz and as much as people wanted to see it 

Wanting to see Fitz get some real help (rather than presuming that love cures all or whatever nonsense she thinks will resolve his psychological issues), and letting him loose so that he has the potential to become another Ward are two very different things. If Simmons let Fitz loose because he was about to be executed, I could understand her actions, but letting him loose despite him explicitly saying that he's dangerous (and after what he did to most of the team)? It's getting too much.

55 minutes ago, Froippi said:

I actually have bigger issues with Deke actions his decision might be the worst even worse than Simmons breaking Fitz out cause if he listen Ruby is capture as far as I can tell Daisy even tells him that on the plane 

I don't expect Deke's screw-up to be held against him for long, but it also suggests (to me) that Deke coming into the past is only reinforcing the cycle that the crew is caught up in.

[Froippi]

55 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

I think it's the manner in which Simmons seems to be glossing over what he's done rather than wanting to see him get real help. It would be one thing if she wanted him to get psychiatric help to get better, but it's another for her to be upset with Daisy because Fitz is now dangerous and for her to screw over Mack, who was nothing but empathetic towards her when Fitz's robot could have killed him. That there's a pattern of men like Ward (in the Framework), Deke, and now Fitz doing terrible things - and having those actions handwaved - is where the issue arises for me.

Wanting to see Fitz get some real help (rather than presuming that love cures all or whatever nonsense she thinks will resolve his psychological issues), and letting him loose so that he has the potential to become another Ward are two very different things. If Simmons let Fitz loose because he was about to be executed, I could understand her actions, but letting him loose despite him explicitly saying that he's dangerous (and after what he did to most of the team)? It's getting too much.

I don't expect Deke's screw-up to be held against him for long, but it also suggests (to me) that Deke coming into the past is only reinforcing the cycle that the crew is caught up in.

its really hard to get help when your in the middle of something major and lets be honest its not like any of the team members our going to go out of their way to find him help when they our trying to stop something massive from happening not to mention they just brought a Hydra agent on the base and yes I know they did not know that at the time

[Lobsel Vith]

9 minutes ago, Froippi said:

its really hard to get help when your in the middle of something major and lets be honest its not like any of the team members our going to go out of their way to find him help when they our trying to stop something massive from happening not to mention they just brought a Hydra agent on the base and yes I know they did not know that at the time

But letting Fitz out wasn't the answer, and she's being obtuse in acting like he can simply get over his behavioral issues. His robots nearly killed the team, he tortured a woman, he thinks he did the right thing, and he's admitted that he's given in to his Framework counterpart - that's not someone who should be let loose from his cell.

[kitlee625]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Everyone on this show needs to take some time off of saving the world, and spend time in some serious therapy. Everyone keeps doing really shitty things to each other or making bad choices, and it just keeps making already bad situations even worse. I almost wonder if the show is being purposeful about everyone doing increasing messed up things, because the characters are starting to full on burn out. I mean, its literally one thing after another with these guys, jumping from one high stress, usually traumatic situation to the next, with no time in between. Maybe this whole is being set up to show the team is actually falling to pieces, and need to hang duty over to other people for awhile? 

Or, they could just be upping the bad choices for dramas sake. Whatever. This seemed like something of a set up episode, and it was weird, because while everyone was basically acting like normal (including Daisy's ever present daddy issues) its come after a ton of NOT normal behavior, and its just really weird. Its like last week didnt even happen in any way that makes sense characterization wise. 

I kind of wish that Deke had just been allowed to die at the end of the space arc. I had basically forgiven him for what he did to Daisy (to an extent) and I thought that was a good ending for his character, and for that arc. Now with him around, beyond being FitzSimmons grandson, he doesn't really have much to do. I did giggle at him on drugs talking with Piper and Mack, but he doesn't seem to serve much other purpose. 

Really, I am just ready for this arc to be over, and do something else. Right now, its basically the follow up to last quarters story, but without all the stuff that made it interesting, with some of the old Hydra stuff mixed in, because Hydra is like gum stuck to your shoe. It never goes away, no matter how much you pull at it. Not that I want them to totally ignore everything last quarter, but I was hoping this Destroy of Worlds stuff would get wrapped up quickly in the first few episodes, and this second arc would be something different. Maybe where all the main characters arent total assholes? 

Poor Talbot. The guy has been pretty harshly screwed over, ever since he got shot in the freaking head, and now he`s a Hydra sleeper agent. I cant believe they didnt think of that happening, its kind of Hydras things after all! I hope they can still help him, and he wont end up getting killed by his own side after all this crap. Damn Daisy and her daddy issues! I know that she meant well, but she had to know that this could go badly, especially considering Hale knows Talbot's family personally. 

 

I suspect that the show is doing this for pure Drama, although I would love for it to end with the SHIELD team rethinking how they deal with / inadvertently cause all of these crises.

 

I am also totally over Daisy's daddy issues.

[Froippi]

3 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

But letting Fitz out wasn't the answer, and she's being obtuse in acting like he can simply get over his behavioral issues. His robots nearly killed the team, he tortured a woman, he thinks he did the right thing, and he's admitted that he's given in to his Framework counterpart - that's not someone who should be let loose from his cell.

Yea I don’t agree at some point your going to have to take a risk and need his mind again maybe not the way they went about it but keeping him lock up a big no no and yes I do know Simmons is smart to but he is a specialize Engineer where Simmons is not 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Froippi

[GonzoBear]

Quote

The SHIELD as a fiefdom aspect and the everybody-must-be-a-couple thing makes the entire show reek of fan service and shipper wish fulfillment. Maybe the producers think they have to cater to whatever dedicated audience is left ... while I think many of these story choices is what left them with a "small but devoted fan base". 

 

Agreed! I think they are also forgetting that the loudest fans may not be the majority. They crammed so much into this episode that felt like Fanfic rather than trained agents trying to prevent a world-ending event. 

I'm stumped about YoYo's problems with the new arms when she used her speed on the mission. Didn't she also use her speed last week to help with their escape without any issue? I kept wondering why she didn't use it sooner in the episode to scout but I guess they were saving it to be a wrench in their escape plan. 

[AKA...CJ86]

Brainwashed, sleeper agent Talbot, well that will be interesting.

Deke and Daisy... gross...

IDK... shouldn't May be the leader with Coulson gone?  Or, wouldn't it be more likely for May to be appointed the leader?  Daisy as the leader... bugging me.

And I'm glad Yo-yo finally mentioned her convo with future Yo on letting Coulson die.  So she hasn't mentioned it at all until now.  I was thinking, well, maybe I missed it in one of the last few episodes.  I blinked.  You'd think that would be the most important thing to mention from the cross-time caper since it does seem to go hand in hand with what the team's current misadventures... but no, she waits and sits on it for a little while.  That development left me a little irritated.  That should have been item number one on the list of things to discuss with the team...

Edited April 15, 2018 by CyberJawa1986

[Raja]

35 minutes ago, CyberJawa1986 said:

 

IDK... shouldn't May be the leader with Coulson gone?  Or, wouldn't it be more likely for May to be appointed the leader?  Daisy as the leader... bugging me.

 

Since they are all "Agent" there is no formal rank structure in place, Daisy was acting Director because Director Coulson said so. Sure Director Mace saw May as more than a Mission Specialist and used her as more, but Daisy is being fast tracked for higher rank to be ready take over. And like any junior officer in the real world, she is put up above long service Sergeants like Mac and May who might be better prepared at that particular point of time to lead while they offer advice to their young Lieutenant.

[Proteus]

I loved that Deke went back to help Daisy. Also loved him confessing his feelings for her at the end. I'm looking forward to them getting together. I couldn't care a less about the "selling her into slavery" issue. He's more than made up for that.

I look forward to seeing Jemmas reaction to him being injured.

[Froippi]

As far as the chamber goes Fitz should refuse to rebuild that thing billions outweigh one agent

Edited April 15, 2018 by Froippi

[Kel Varnsen]

10 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Thinking about Daisy being appointed as the next leader by Coulson is irritating. Does he think SHIELD, once a government agency, is now a monarchy instead of democracy and he can pass it down to his surrogate daughter? I get that there is supposed to be a parallel between Hale/Ruby and Coulson/Daisy - - but we should be seeing the differences in leadership, not similarities. 

Isn't SHIELD basically a democracy by default since at this point it is pretty much a made up agency with no powers or authority?  Coulson is the leader because people choose to follow him, not because someone appointed him. Same essentially with Daisy. Sure Coulson says she leader but if no one likes her they are all free to quit or start up their own fake agency or go work for Stark or whatever.

1 hour ago, GonzoBear said:

I'm stumped about YoYo's problems with the new arms when she used her speed on the mission. Didn't she also use her speed last week to help with their escape without any issue? I kept wondering why she didn't use it sooner in the episode to scout but I guess they were saving it to be a wrench in their escape plan. 

I just can't believe that no one mentioned to yo yo that super speed and robo arms might be a problem.

I also thought that learning surgery through youtube and sewing up an artery was a bit much even for this show. I did laugh a bit though at Fitz jumping out of a plane in like khakis and a collared shirt though. That was funny.

[CaptainTightpants]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, with the end, why didn't Jemma just brag to Ruby that she's invincible? I mean, she should still think that, right?

This is 1000% what I was thinking during that entire stupid confrontation. If they genuinely believe that they can't be killed in the timeline yet, then Jemma and Fitz should have stood their ground and trusted that a meteor would strike the junior league of evil down on the spot. They are all over the place with this bit of the story and I am hating it. I think the biggest part of my problem with the confrontation scene is that Jemma and Fitz have faced down some truly formidable people in the last 5 seasons. So seeing them standing in front of the junior league of evil, apparently gripped with terror was ridiculous. I know that we are supposed to think that Ruby and Alex are badasses but I'm not sold on them. 

I am glad that Yoyo finally told somebody about her chat with her future self. I was beginning to think that it was going to go to the grave with her. (I'm thinking that despite their current stupidity, Fitz and Simmons will probably survive this season. Which puts Yoyo in the deep end of the deadpool. Because her death would also be definitive proof that the timeloop is broken.)

I'm so sad for Talbot that this shit sundae of an experience is not over for him. But on the other hand I'm in favour of anything that keeps Adrian Pasdar on the show. So I'm looking forward to seeing how this unfolds. 

I'm glad that Deke does realize that Daisy does not like him at all. I would hate it if they became a couple. But having him moon around while Daisy can't stand him is both funny and a potentially character building experience for Deke. 

Piper was solid this episode. I wouldn't mind it if she stuck around. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by CaptainTightpants

[greekmom]

2 hours ago, CyberJawa1986 said:

IDK... shouldn't May be the leader with Coulson gone?  Or, wouldn't it be more likely for May to be appointed the leader?  Daisy as the leader... bugging me.

I agree. May or Simmons should be next in line.  Putting Daisy in charge is a major skip in the pecking order.

[TVSpectator]

12 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I agree. May or Simmons should be next in line.  Putting Daisy in charge is a major skip in the pecking order.

Simmons was put in second of charge when Mace was the director and looked at how well that turned out (hint it didn't turn out very well). Instead she actually literally put all of SHIELD in jeopardy because, she found out that her boyfriend at the time, was hiding AIDA/Radcliffe's LMD and blackmailed Mace instead. Instead of actually doing her job she instead chose her boyfriend over SHIELD. Which, IMO, doesn't seem like Simmons but whatever- this show just writers everyone all over the place, IMO. 

 

May, Fitz, and Yo-Yo seem like the only three that hadn't have any turn being the director and/or second in charge of SHIELD (and also, Simmons became the leader once Mace was kidnapped by the LMDs, FYI and under her, the SHIELD HQ was blown up). 

Edited April 15, 2018 by TVSpectator

[tessaray]

14 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

I don't get why Deke is here  (other than a, "oh look he is Fitz and Simmons' future slaver grandson") and he is not really part of the story. It seems like he is only here for comedic relief but the show really doesn't need it and he is the worst character to be the comedic relief since he was also supposed to be the one that sold Daisy into slavery. 

I'm beginning to think Deke's purpose (other than fish-out-of-water comic relief) is to fade out a la "Back to the Future" to show that the future has indeed been changed.  

[kitlee625]

22 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I do wonder about older Yo-Yo's thing about needing to let Coulson die. Does he try to go into the machine and that somehow leads to everything? Does some other major action of Coulson trying to sacrifice himself lead to the end? But we also know Coulson doesn't make it to the Lighthouse so he dies anyway.

 

I don't completely understand Yo-Yo's rationale in not telling people what she learned from her future self. Yeah, I get that they don't want to let Coulson die, but 1) that may be their only choice, and 2) the team needs all the clues they can get about this world-ending event if they want to stop it.

 

I've been wondering how this world ending event could be linked to trying to save Coulson, and the way I see it, there's four possibilities: 1) the team/Daisy puts Coulson in the Infuser-ator to infuse him with gravitonium/something to save his life, 2) Coulson sacrifices himself to fight Graviton/aliens and Daisy tries to rescue him, triggering this world ending event when she uses her powers and it reacts with the gravitonium, 3) Daisy tries to fight aliens to get something (like more Kree blood) that will save Coulson and again, her powers react with gravitonium and leads to earthquakes, 4) either 2 or 3, but this time Daisy infuses herself with gravitonium to take on Graviton/aliens.

[Ceindreadh]

8 hours ago, tessaray said:

I'm beginning to think Deke's purpose (other than fish-out-of-water comic relief) is to fade out a la "Back to the Future" to show that the future has indeed been changed.  

I was thinking that either Fitz or Simmons would get injured on their mission and Deke would disappear on the operating table. 

[paigow]

Maybe Hunter returns and kills Deke by accident / friendly fire to alter the future,,,

[MissLucas]

*small voice* I feel so lonely for actually liking Deke.

I wish the time-travel fatalists on this show would make up their minds - either the future can be changed or it can't. Stop acting like Schrödinger's weasel!

[romantic idiot]

I would like him but for his bad taste in liking Daisy. 

On 4/14/2018 at 7:05 PM, TVSpectator said:

What they all did to each other is pretty fucked up but the show is still forcing us to like these characters. It's like Ward all over again, IMO.

Eh, the show has been cramming Daisy down my throat for so many years, I say all viewers deserve to have characters they don't like sticking around. 

19 hours ago, Froippi said:

As far as the chamber goes Fitz should refuse to rebuild that thing billions outweigh one agent

Not when that one is Simmons. 

I actually think that the person who should be locked up is Coulson - he's the reprehensibly selfish one. He could have left Daisy in the future and that would have definitely altered the timeline with no repurcussions to everyone else. Fitz did what he did to Daisy out of desperation - because there was a literal rift in space and he didn't know how else to fix it. (And knowing Daisy she's have said no even if he had told her his plan - that's just Daisy). 

[Chyromaniac]

22 hours ago, GonzoBear said:

I'm stumped about YoYo's problems with the new arms

Oh that’s just wrong...

[Froippi]

7 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

I would like him but for his bad taste in liking Daisy. 

Eh, the show has been cramming Daisy down my throat for so many years, I say all viewers deserve to have characters they don't like sticking around. 

Not when that one is Simmons. 

I actually think that the person who should be locked up is Coulson - he's the reprehensibly selfish one. He could have left Daisy in the future and that would have definitely altered the timeline with no repurcussions to everyone else. Fitz did what he did to Daisy out of desperation - because there was a literal rift in space and he didn't know how else to fix it. (And knowing Daisy she's have said no even if he had told her his plan - that's just Daisy). 

How is Simmons more important that billions of people survival that don’t make since to me and if your saying Fitz its not good enough for me I need a better answer

 

Also I defended Fitz in 5x14 cause i still thought it was the right thing to do but for 5x18 and 5x17 and wanting to save Simmons over billions of people's lives I just cannot do that so yes i've turned against him this episode and probably next

Edited April 16, 2018 by Froippi

[Lobsel Vith]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 9:15 PM, Proteus said:

I loved that Deke went back to help Daisy. Also loved him confessing his feelings for her at the end. I'm looking forward to them getting together. I couldn't care a less about the "selling her into slavery" issue. He's more than made up for that.

Daisy has repeatedly rebuffed Deke and made it clear that she isn't interested. I don't get why some people ship two people when the woman continually says she isn't interested in the guy. It's not like she doesn't know Deke at this point.

5 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

Fitz did what he did to Daisy out of desperation - because there was a literal rift in space and he didn't know how else to fix it. (And knowing Daisy she's have said no even if he had told her his plan - that's just Daisy). 

And yet, when Fitz carelessly jumped into the monolith in season three, Daisy risked her life to save Simmons and Fitz from Maveth. She also offered to sacrifice her life to deal with the rift initially in this season. I don't get why you assume that Daisy wouldn't have agreed to restore her powers if Fitz acted like a rational person and spoke with her about it, rather than building dangerous robots that nearly killed most of the team (that lead to Mack being injured, and he not only helped Fitz in season two but he didn't hold losing Hope against him when he left the Framework) and torturing the inhibitor out of Daisy.

I don't need the show to handwave the ramifications of characters crossing the line - it's bad enough we have Deke on the canvas and that we were supposed to care about a slaver being shot (which lead to people with no prior medical knowledge fixing him up - you'd think the base would have an actual medical doctor available and not just someone the show handwaved some medical expertise between seasons one and two).

[TVSpectator]

On 4/14/2018 at 11:45 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

Thinking about Daisy being appointed as the next leader by Coulson is irritating. Does he think SHIELD, once a government agency, is now a monarchy instead of democracy and he can pass it down to his surrogate daughter? I get that there is supposed to be a parallel between Hale/Ruby and Coulson/Daisy - - but we should be seeing the differences in leadership, not similarities. 

Every one of the other agents, including the red-shirts, have had more formal training than Skye/Daisy , who has gone rogue, AWOL and everything in between. 
And despite anything  Coulson does/says, you know none of that would matter if Nick Fury were to ever show back up and declare something about the direction of SHIELD (whether on TV or in the movies). 

The SHIELD as a fiefdom aspect and the everybody-must-be-a-couple thing makes the entire show reek of fan service and shipper wish fulfillment. Maybe the producers think they have to cater to whatever dedicated audience is left ... while I think many of these story choices is what left them with a "small but devoted fan base". 

 

Fanservice and shipper wish fulfillment is a really good way to describe the show, IMO, and I agree with you. The show has basically written themselves out of the MCU movies with the Inhuman Outbreak and basically the only thing they have left, I guess, is just to be a massive fanservice and shipper wish fulfillment show with no clear direction to take it and for some reason, the writers want to have. these creative decisions where the characters would go out and do, IMO, horrible things. They are reportedly going to have an Infinity War tie-in but I feel like everything else on the show was just put on hold because they (at the time) didn't know how the movie will affect them and/or how to tie it into Infinity War, IMO.

 

As with how Coulson gets to chose who is the new director, Fury chose him (and is also, IMO, fanservice) and later Coulson chose Mack to be a temporary director. Now, Coulson gets to chose Daisy because going rogue, threating to torture private citizens (no matter how appalling/racist/bigoted/anti-Inhuman/redneck they are. It's just not right to do, especially for a group of people that believes they are better than Hydra- they all end up doing what Hydra has done. They threaten people, they tortured people, they wanted to abandon people on that alien planet, etc....), accidentally getting Trip killed, not listening to anyone, etc... is a good choice. I know that the show wants us to believe that Coulson is like a father and her like a daughter to Coulson but in reality, Coulson shouldn't be saying to Daisy, you are going to be the next director of SHIELD.  That shouldn't happen because SHIELD isn't something that you get to inherent but is an actual organization but since this show is all about Fanservice and shipper wish fulfillment nothing will stop them from putting Daisy in the director's chair. 

 

IMO, Mace was a better director than Coulson (and point to me where Mace put the lives and reputation of SHIELD on the line because someone from Coulson's team did something terrible?) but the show wanted us to hate on Mace for being director (even though it fulfilled everything Coulson wanted in a new director- which was just a person with powers. He did have powers albeit from a serum but what makes that so different from Captain America's origin powers?) and that was it. 

On 4/14/2018 at 8:09 PM, GonzoBear said:

Agreed! I think they are also forgetting that the loudest fans may not be the majority. They crammed so much into this episode that felt like Fanfic rather than trained agents trying to prevent a world-ending event. 

I'm stumped about YoYo's problems with the new arms when she used her speed on the mission. Didn't she also use her speed last week to help with their escape without any issue? I kept wondering why she didn't use it sooner in the episode to scout but I guess they were saving it to be a wrench in their escape plan. 

For me, this entire show felt like fanfic for seasons. Personally, I wish that they would just focus on the show and not what the loudest fans want. 

On 4/14/2018 at 12:37 PM, tennisgurl said:

I kind of wish that Deke had just been allowed to die at the end of the space arc. I had basically forgiven him for what he did to Daisy (to an extent) and I thought that was a good ending for his character, and for that arc. Now with him around, beyond being FitzSimmons grandson, he doesn't really have much to do. I did giggle at him on drugs talking with Piper and Mack, but he doesn't seem to serve much other purpose. 

Really, I am just ready for this arc to be over, and do something else. Right now, its basically the follow up to last quarters story, but without all the stuff that made it interesting, with some of the old Hydra stuff mixed in, because Hydra is like gum stuck to your shoe. It never goes away, no matter how much you pull at it. Not that I want them to totally ignore everything last quarter, but I was hoping this Destroy of Worlds stuff would get wrapped up quickly in the first few episodes, and this second arc would be something different. Maybe where all the main characters arent total assholes? 

 

15 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

I've been wondering how this world ending event could be linked to trying to save Coulson, and the way I see it, there's four possibilities: 1) the team/Daisy puts Coulson in the Infuser-ator to infuse him with gravitonium/something to save his life, 2) Coulson sacrifices himself to fight Graviton/aliens and Daisy tries to rescue him, triggering this world ending event when she uses her powers and it reacts with the gravitonium, 3) Daisy tries to fight aliens to get something (like more Kree blood) that will save Coulson and again, her powers react with gravitonium and leads to earthquakes, 4) either 2 or 3, but this time Daisy infuses herself with gravitonium to take on Graviton/aliens.

1

I agree that I want this arc to be over and done with but I think it's going to be closing out the entire series.

Spoiler

And looking at the title for the second to last episode of this season it looks like that Gravitron will be making an appearance (by the fact that the second to last episode's title is actually Newton's equation on calculation gravity's force) but if they are going to have an Infinity War tie-in why do something like that? We all know that the movies will not respond to Gravitron at all and if they spend the entire episode fighting Gravitron while Thanos is attacking Earth, then that is some ridiculous shit right there, IMO

 

 

That being said, Deke is so pointless. He was better off just dying on that table so the story can have more emotional weight to it, IMO, and I don't know make Simmons and Fitz feel so bad for acting like they did in the other episode and maybe motivate them to actually end this? Also, his death might've told Simmons and Fitz that the future might not be so predetermined afterall. What is sad is that it does look like everything is going to be handwaved away by the end of the season/series. 

6 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

I would like him but for his bad taste in liking Daisy. 

Eh, the show has been cramming Daisy down my throat for so many years, I say all viewers deserve to have characters they don't like sticking around. 

 

Sure, I am fine with getting rid of Daisy if it means we get ride of Deke and now Fitz. I am just tired of the show just handwaving everything anyways and I would rather see three dead but right now I just want Fitz and Deke both dead, personally. Fitz is basically beyond repair and Deke is pointless and a consent reminder that Fitz's destiny is to have a daughter so she can die right after given birth to Deke or something. I  mean I like watching Rick and Morty and I know that Rick has done some really fucked up and evil things but I am hating these characters more than anything else. 

Quote

 

Not when that one is Simmons. 

I actually think that the person who should be locked up is Coulson - he's the reprehensibly selfish one. He could have left Daisy in the future and that would have definitely altered the timeline with no repurcussions to everyone else. Fitz did what he did to Daisy out of desperation - because there was a literal rift in space and he didn't know how else to fix it. (And knowing Daisy she's have said no even if he had told her his plan - that's just Daisy). 

 

Simmons should be able to separate her emotions and decided that it's not worth risking billions of lives and maybe offing herself(?) so she won't be used by Ruby and Stucker Jr, but the show probably won't go there; at least anymore. They used to have her be the one that wanted to abandon someone on an alien planet, that she claimed she had feelings for, because she feared that IT/Hive would've gotten to Earth (and honestly, they only spent a day or two investigating everything but everything was pointless in that story, IMO). Not only that she was the one that wanted to commit suicide once she was infected with that alien virus in Season 1, but Ward saved her (well, Pre-Hydra Reveal Ward saved her), and she was pretty cold and detached (again) when Mace died. 

43 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Daisy has repeatedly rebuffed Deke and made it clear that she isn't interested. I don't get why some people ship two people when the woman continually says she isn't interested in the guy. It's not like she doesn't know Deke at this point.

 

Yeah, some people will ship anyone together, which at times can be sickening, IMO. Did you know that there was a ship between Jessica Jones and Killgrave? Thank God, the showrunner never gave into the fanservice and ship wish fulfillment and placed them together. But this show is trying to ship Deke and Daisy together- Deke, the same man that sold her into slavery to the Kree. Mind you his grandfather decided to just torture her while he held everyone else at gunpoint via robot bodyguards, but hey the show loves to just handwave everything away. Soon or later the writers will just forget everything and just write everyone as a big happy family.....

Quote

 

And yet, when Fitz carelessly jumped into the monolith in season three, Daisy risked her life to save Simmons and Fitz from Maveth. She also offered to sacrifice her life to deal with the rift initially in this season. I don't get why you assume that Daisy wouldn't have agreed to restore her powers if Fitz acted like a rational person and spoke with her about it, rather than building dangerous robots that nearly killed most of the team (that lead to Mack being injured, and he not only helped Fitz in season two but he didn't hold losing Hope against him when he left the Framework) and torturing the inhibitor out of Daisy.

I don't need the show to handwave the ramifications of characters crossing the line - it's bad enough we have Deke on the canvas and that we were supposed to care about a slaver being shot (which lead to people with no prior medical knowledge fixing him up - you'd think the base would have an actual medical doctor available and not just someone the show handwaved some medical expertise between seasons one and two).

 

Yeah, Daisy did some great things for her teammate but that doesn't excuse what Fitz did. What I am surprised is that so many people are just willing to handwave everything away and/or in some cases try to rationalized/justify the actions because it's Fitz, or it's Simmons, or it's Deke (who is the grandson of Fitz/Simmons), or it's Coulson, or it's Daisy, etc... 

Edited April 16, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Froippi]

12 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Fanservice and shipper wish fulfillment is a really good way to describe the show, IMO, and I agree with you. The show has basically written themselves out of the MCU movies with the Inhuman Outbreak and basically the only thing they have left, I guess, is just to be a massive fanservice and shipper wish fulfillment show with no clear direction to take it and for some reason, the writers want to have. these creative decisions where the characters would go out and do, IMO, horrible things. They are reportedly going to have an Infinity War tie-in but I feel like everything else on the show was just put on hold because they (at the time) didn't know how the movie will affect them and/or how to tie it into Infinity War, IMO.

 

As with how Coulson gets to chose who is the new director, Fury chose him (and is also, IMO, fanservice) and later Coulson chose Mack to be a temporary director. Now, Coulson gets to chose Daisy because going rogue, threating to torture private citizens (no matter how appalling/racist/bigoted/anti-Inhuman/redneck they are. It's just not right to do, especially for a group of people that believes they are better than Hydra- they all end up doing what Hydra has done. They threaten people, they tortured people, they wanted to abandon people on that alien planet, etc....), accidentally getting Trip killed, not listening to anyone, etc... is a good choice. I know that the show wants us to believe that Coulson is like a father and her like a daughter to Coulson but in reality, Coulson shouldn't be saying to Daisy, you are going to be the next director of SHIELD.  That shouldn't happen because SHIELD isn't something that you get to inherent but is an actual organization but since this show is all about Fanservice and shipper wish fulfillment nothing will stop them from putting Daisy in the director's chair. 

 

IMO, Mace was a better director than Coulson (and point to me where Mace put the lives and reputation of SHIELD on the line because someone from Coulson's team did something terrible?) but the show wanted us to hate on Mace for being director (even though it fulfilled everything Coulson wanted in a new director- which was just a person with powers. He did have powers albeit from a serum but what makes that so different from Captain America's origin powers?) and that was it. 

For me, this entire show felt like fanfic for seasons. Personally, I wish that they would just focus on the show and not what the loudest fans want. 

 

I agree that I want this arc to be over and done with but I think it's going to be closing out the entire series.

  Hide contents

And looking at the title for the second to last episode of this season it looks like that Gravitron will be making an appearance (by the fact that the second to last episode's title is actually Newton's equation on calculation gravity's force) but if they are going to have an Infinity War tie-in why do something like that? We all know that the movies will not respond to Gravitron at all and if they spend the entire episode fighting Gravitron while Thanos is attacking Earth, then that is some ridiculous shit right there, IMO

 

 

That being said, Deke is so pointless. He was better off just dying on that table so the story can have more emotional weight to it, IMO, and I don't know make Simmons and Fitz feel so bad for acting like they did in the other episode and maybe motivate them to actually end this? Also, his death might've told Simmons and Fitz that the future might not be so predetermined afterall. What is sad is that it does look like everything is going to be handwaved away by the end of the season/series. 

Sure, I am fine with getting rid of Daisy if it means we get ride of Deke and now Fitz. I am just tired of the show just handwaving everything anyways and I would rather see three dead but right now I just want Fitz and Deke both dead, personally. Fitz is basically beyond repair and Deke is pointless and a consent reminder that Fitz's destiny is to have a daughter so she can die right after given birth to Deke or something. I  mean I like watching Rick and Morty and I know that Rick has done some really fucked up and evil things but I am hating these characters more than anything else. 

Simmons should be able to separate her emotions and decided that it's not worth risking billions of lives and maybe offing herself(?) so she won't be used by Ruby and Stucker Jr, but the show probably won't go there; at least anymore. They used to have her be the one that wanted to abandon someone on an alien planet, that she claimed she had feelings for, because she feared that IT/Hive would've gotten to Earth (and honestly, they only spent a day or two investigating everything but everything was pointless in that story, IMO). Not only that she was the one that wanted to commit suicide once she was infected with that alien virus in Season 1, but Ward saved her (well, Pre-Hydra Reveal Ward saved her), and she was pretty cold and detached (again) when Mace died. 

Yeah, some people will ship anyone together, which at times can be sickening, IMO. Did you know that there was a ship between Jessica Jones and Killgrave? Thank God, the showrunner never gave into the fanservice and ship wish fulfillment and placed them together. But this show is trying to ship Deke and Daisy together- Deke, the same man that sold her into slavery to the Kree. Mind you his grandfather decided to just torture her while he held everyone else at gunpoint via robot bodyguards, but hey the show loves to just handwave everything away. Soon or later the writers will just forget everything and just write everyone as a big happy family.....

Yeah, Daisy did some great things for her teammate but that doesn't excuse what Fitz did. What I am surprised is that so many people are just willing to handwave everything away and/or in some cases try to rationalized/justify the actions because it's Fitz, or it's Simmons, or it's Deke (who is the grandson of Fitz/Simmons), or it's Coulson, or it's Daisy, etc... 

 

I get why Fitz did what he did to Daisy but their should be consequences but I can see his consequences could be just leaving shield but hey that is my opinion 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Froippi

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Daisy has repeatedly rebuffed Deke and made it clear that she isn't interested. I don't get why some people ship two people when the woman continually says she isn't interested in the guy. It's not like she doesn't know Deke at this point.

 

Daisys not interested in Deke? No one from the show has said that. I haven't read any pressure ro interviews saying the Deke/Daisy plot is a story about a woman having to rebuff the advances of a man that she does not want to be with. That's why it's easy to ship them. Many couples begin with one party not acting interested. IMO, the same will happen here with Deke and Daisy. The show couldn't make it more clear that Deke is here to be Daisys love interest.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Proteus

[TVSpectator]

1 minute ago, Froippi said:

I get why Fitz did what he did to Daisy but their should be consequences but I can see his consequences could be just leaving shield but hey that is my opinion 

Leaving SHIELD because he snapped into Dr. Fitzler and torture her would a) still could threaten the world, and b) he shouldn't be allowed to easily just walk away. If he just walks away then it's just another form of handwaving, IMO. 

[Froippi]

19 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Leaving SHIELD because he snapped into Dr. Fitzler and torture her would a) still could threaten the world, and b) he shouldn't be allowed to easily just walk away. If he just walks away then it's just another form of handwaving, IMO. 

I mean what do you expect them to do it’s not like they have real authority anymore it’s not government ran anymore so most rules don’t apply

 

All Agents but maybe Mack could be thrown in Jail also

 

plus if everyone else doesn’t have to pay any price for their past actions why start now 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Froippi

[Lobsel Vith]

2 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Daisys not interested in Deke? Anyone from the show say that?

Yeah - Daisy. Repeatedly. And she's the only person who needs to say that.

2 minutes ago, Proteus said:

That's why it's easy to ship them. Many couples begin with one party not acting interested. IMO, the same will happen here with Deke and Daisy.

When Daisy just met Deke, she rebuffed him. She said she wanted to kill him when he sold her to Kasius. She's made it clear she isn't interested in him when they've been on modern day Earth. And those couples you're talking about don't usually involve one of the partners being the victim of the other person, which makes the entire pairing gross and pointless (it was bad enough when people wanted to see Daisy with Ward even after the rape threat).