S06.E05: The Great Patriotic War

[Inquisitionist]

21 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Rhys's face as Philip was fucking Kimmie was so depressing. Philip was so utterly defeated at that point.

Philip has great "muscle memory" to be able to fuck like that on command after three years "out of the game."  And with a woman he still thinks of as a surrogate daughter.  If the travel agency folds, he could have a career in porn.  ;-)

But, yeah, Rhys did an amazing job in his scenes last night. 

[misstwpherecool]

11 minutes ago, NitneLiun said:

I suspect Stan's chat with Philip had a purpose. He was clearly watching P closely to gauge his reaction.  Even The Americans Twitter account posted a gif last night showing Stan watching P more closely than he would have in a normal conversation.

I thought the same thing to. It could be guilt and want's support right now.

When Stan went to the crime scene wasn't he wearing casual clothes with an outdoor jacket. Yet he comes to P + Es in blazer hours after?

White car parked at the corner during the first scene showing Stan stopping at the bakery-was that a Datsun? I was thinking Ford Maverick as well.

[BingeyKohan]

9 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Really?  To me, Stan seemed like he was his same old self. He was upset and turning to P for support, but, I haven't seen any reason for him to be suspicious of P right now.  I mean, P didn't even seem too curious, has never asked Stan about his work nor given any hint of being anything other than a neighbor, regular guy kind of friend.  (I mean besides the car thing years previously and the composite sketches, that he's never picked up on.) 

I like Stan and Noah Emmerich but unlike with Keri Russell I feel like a director could say to him, 'now do a take where you kind of sort of are intrigued by his reaction'..'now do one where you're totally oblivious'...'now do one where you bug out your eyes like gotcha Russkie!'...and they'd all look the same.

[SunnyBeBe]

Oh yeah, I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, I think I'm reading all the post on this thread. It's a bear today!  But, did you catch the look that E got when she asked for a cigarette light in the ally? I wonder if that agent got a good enough look for a composite sketch.  Would it match the old one?

[Umbelina]

This episode had so much goodness.  Overall, with the exception of a few *unfortunately rather critical things* it was very very good.

It's a bummer that they dropped the ball on things that could have been easily remedied, while shining in so many other ways.  No blood on Elizabeth, not even her jacket when she was leaning over Bad Teeth Woman's stabbed back to cut her throat.  No groundwork for how Elizabeth would know which apartment they were in, hell, even the open window!  Mostly though, it's the lack of FBI competence, and that's not really a small thing.  Not just with the Teacups, but with all the murders and apparently no FBI curiosity.

So those things took me out of the story, even though I LOVED so much of it!

Paige finally proving she is an idiot brat, and Elizabeth GETTING that?  Priceless!

Paige having a social life!  Finally!  About time!

Philip in all of his scenes (except for the clunker of a WTF when he said that Paige could be a spy, but shouldn't.)  He's so compelling, the character, the writing for him, and everything from the cinematography to his outstanding acting is just a thing of beauty.  LOVED it, just loved it.  His face while fucking Kimmie?  His final scenes with Kimmie, and flat out jeopardizing everything, the USSR, his marriage, his very life by warning her?  Breathtaking.  Literally, I gasped and took a second to breathe again.  I hope he gets an Emmy for his work, because he is keeping me involved in this once cherished show.  The actress playing Kimmie is wonderful as well, and I've always loved their story.   The only clunker there was the idea that the bug has never been discovered, because hello!  CIA!  Please...

Oleg and Tatianna!  The threat to Oleg's dad!  Tatianna's understandable fury!  Tatianna dropping her mask at the end of their scene, and Oleg maintaining his cover.  Tense.  Lovely.  Earned.  Beautifully done.

So, very much to love in this one, and some rather important things that are not lovable.  All in all, it's not season 1-4, but it had it's MOMENTS, and those made it worth it for me.

6 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh yeah, I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, I think I'm reading all the post on this thread. It's a bear today!  But, did you catch the look that E got when she asked for a cigarette light in the ally? I wonder if that agent got a good enough look for a composite sketch.  Would it match the old one?

He definitely looked hard at her.  Score ONE point for the FBI.  She covered her face with her hand/cigarette, but still...it could come into play.  Especially if CIA notices knife angles and suspects a shorter person.

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

If anybody can turn chickenshit into chickensalad it is Margo Martindale. Thank goodness she's stuck with the show, with all the offers she gets. Along those same lines, the great work Rhys puts forth nearly makes me not hate the Kimmy arc, and that means that Rhys is really, really, great.

Rhys is great when he talks to Stan and puts on his glad-handing beer-drinking friend voice/persona. 

Keri Russell is great too.  Because we have begun to hate her character so much, we are overlooking her talent, I think, and the way she adopts so many personas.

[misstwpherecool]

13 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh yeah, I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, I think I'm reading all the post on this thread. It's a bear today!  But, did you catch the look that E got when she asked for a cigarette light in the ally? I wonder if that agent got a good enough look for a composite sketch.  Would it match the old one?

Excellent point. If they put that sketch and others of the illegals out that could severely hamper E's career let alone current missions.

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Rhys is great when he talks to Stan and puts on his glad-handing beer-drinking friend voice/persona. 

Keri Russell is great too.  Because we have begun to hate her character so much, we are overlooking her talent, I think, and the way she adopts so many personas.

Oh, her work, along with that of a few other actors, has saved this show. Literally.

[Ellaria]

53 minutes ago, whiporee said:

So what I really don't understand in the story right now is why Paige is so willing to embrace something (the superiority of the Communist way of life/philosophy) that she at least has some evidence isn't correct?

Elizabeth and Phillip grew up in hellish conditions and constant indoctrination -- Claudia lived through terror and sacrifice --  and sometimes moral superiority is how you get through those kinds of situations. Gregory had seen American civil injustice -- even poor Karl had watched apartheid first hand. But Paige grew up privileged in America; I don't know why Paige has so quickly adopted the idea at the expense of almost everything else she's been taught. That doesn't ring true to me. 

Indeed. She doesn't ask follow-up questions ("What happened with the wheat project you were working on, Mom?"). She isn't curious. Neither does she have a stated commitment to the cause. She is following a belief that she doesn't completely understand. Nor is she aware that she doesn't understand. Wouldn't she want to know more? 

[Erin9]

Maybe I misheard, but I thought Philip saying he never said she couldn’t be a spy, it was that she shouldn’t, was going back to his original objection of her spying to begin with. But I may have heard wrong. He certainly had clearly seen and noted some of her mistakes. Otherwise- one bad line in a perfect episode for him. 

What’s interesting about Elizabeth and Philip being traitors is, it depends on what side you’re on. Gorbachev should thank Philip for this. Hardliners would execute him. And vice versa for Elizabeth. 

[SunnyBeBe]

E has gotten real peculiar about Paige coming home now that she's in college.  What's up with that?  I guess she thought something was wrong last night, when she just showed up, but, don't college kids do that? I mean especially if they live nearby.  

I wonder what E's Mother's Day card would look like from Paige? "To the BEST MOTHER IN THE WHOLE WORLD"  or "THERE ARE NO OTHER MOTHERS LIKE YOU MOM"   lol 

[MisterBluxom]

It just ocurred to me there must be a good reason why the subplot about Phillip going broke with the travel agency is being played up.

It may mean there are a few factors that are all squeezing Phillip and will eventually cause him to do something extreme  or dangerous that may result in a big tragedy.

These factors include:

1) The Travel Agency going broke and maybe Phillip losing that business. Few things are more devastating to a man than going broke. How will he face his family?

2) Philip being unable to cover Henry's tuition. How will he handle that?  Maybe he'll try to pull off some kind of robbery?

3) Pressure being put on Phillip to use Kimmie and possibly that could wind up causing great harm or even death to Kimmie.

4) His recent withdrawl from the Spy business. As pressure increases on Elizabeth, Phillip will feel squeezed. He will feel like he has to do something to help his wife. The sparring session with Paige may be  one result of that. He may feel he has to do more for his wife and/or his daughter - to help them.

But as all these different pressures mount, I forsee Phillip being forced to take some kind of extreme or dangerous action that may well result in a big problem for him.

Edited April 26, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Umbelina]

13 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

E has gotten real peculiar about Paige coming home now that she's in college.  What's up with that?  I guess she thought something was wrong last night, when she just showed up, but, don't college kids do that? I mean especially if they live nearby.  

I wonder what E's Mother's Day card would look like from Paige? "To the BEST MOTHER IN THE WHOLE WORLD"  or "THERE ARE NO OTHER MOTHERS LIKE YOU MOM"   lol 

A lead in to Paige coming home willy nilly and not being careful and Renee noticing?

[BingeyKohan]

Just now, Umbelina said:

A lead in to Paige coming home willy nilly and not being careful and Renee noticing?

I actually thought they were hearing Renee's big old lumberjack mobile when Paige pulled up in the driveway.

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Erin9 said:

What’s interesting about Elizabeth and Philip being traitors is, it depends on what side you’re on. Gorbachev should thank Philip for this. Hardliners would execute him. And vice versa for Elizabeth. 

That's something I hope really comes out. Because Elizabeth has such a habit of assuming the righteous position. She  still sees all this as her being strong enough to keep working for the Cause while Philip faltered. From the beginning it was understood that he was the weak one. She didn't understand that he hadn't lost his beliefs, just his faith that he was helping (because all the evidence pointed to this fact). I would love to see Elizabeth have to face a Philip who's claiming the country and the Cause for himself as well. There is no Central authority anymore. 

In a way, that might be what she needs to save her, if she can see Philip as a legitimate person to follow for the Cause. She sees Mexico City as her authority now because he's the guy that claimed that title and immediately started convincing herself that of course he was right. She's not thinking through the idea that this is an internal political struggle and picking a side. 

3 hours ago, Erin9 said:

Maybe I misheard, but I thought Philip saying he never said she couldn’t be a spy, it was that she shouldn’t, was going back to his original objection of her spying to begin with.

Yeah, was she trying to quote him by saying "You were right, Paige isn't cut out for this"? So she was trying to put it on him at least partly. It does actually make sense that he'd reject that and go back back to the principle that was always central to him--that it's wrong for her to do this, not that it would be right for her to do this but she sucks at it. It's like when they argued about Martha and he kept trying to get her to see that the problem was that she was a human being who didn't deserve this, not that he wanted her for himself. It's the principle, not Martha herself, even if he cares about Martha.

I wonder if Kimmy, throughout her life, will go back to that last message from Jim and wonder about that relationship. She might one day put it together and conclude that Jim really did love her and had sex with her once because he wanted to. She'd have to know it was a warning. 

I like how the ep started by having Philip slip back into the old pattern of doing what Elizabeth wants him to do because she says it's important. He's clearly disillusioned when he comes back from Michigan, must know the sex was a manipulation and not the re-connection he's wanted so much. That's maybe part of the old pattern too; she needs him. This is how he's won her affection in the past. But this day he decided, "No more."

Oh, another tiny moment I loved? After Philip comes down the morning after they have sex and she's back outside smoking in her depression outfit and tells him that she's still not sleeping well (he finally had a good night's sleep) he asks if she wants coffee or whatever and goes back inside. What I loved was that Elizabeth is standing out on the deck as always with her cigarette, wrapped in her sweater and looking numb. Philip's in his tee-shirt and sweats and maybe bare feet and when he goes back inside he gives this little "Brrr!" sound because of the cold and hops inside.

I know it's little, but it was like the whole scene was showing Philip brimming with life and connected to stuff--well-rested, happy about the sex, feeling in love with his wife. Connected with life in general. So of course he feels the cold. Not only does he feels it but he's invigorated by it--he once even said he liked the cold. For Elizabeth the cold just seems numbing. She hunched up and wrapped up against it, smoking her death stick while planning her next move against Philip. 

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

His final scenes with Kimmie, and flat out jeopardizing everything, the USSR, his marriage, his very life by warning her?

I keep thinking about Elizabeth choosing death/Philip choosing life even with this. Like Gregory chose death in the US with a pretty lie from Elizabeth vs. Martha choosing life in the USSR and Philip giving her the truth to do it. Elizabeth's risking so much but there's a suicidal tilt to the whole thing. Philip's risking just as much but it still reads as more of a choice for life. Him wanting to do good for others is more how he wants to live than what he wants to sacrifice his life for. He will sacrifice his life for it and for these other people, but he'd rather keep line dancing as well. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by sistermagpie

[ruby24]

I really enjoyed watching Philip beat up Paige. I hope he does it again next week.

That little asshole is ruining the final season for me. I HATE her now. I hope Elizabeth gets her killed by accident.

[anonymiss]

9 hours ago, JFParnell said:

Oh, Lizzie. We were 20 minutes in and no one had died yet. I thought maybe you were going to take a break from your murder spree. That was ugly, and I can't imagine a single viewer out there who is any longer (or was anyone ever?) rooting for her character to become anything but a corpse resting on a slab in a morgue. Elizabeth must be stopped.

 

8 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I really love the Elizabeth character and I truly wish that I knew that character in my lonely life. Spending time talking with Elizabeth would be an enormously entertaining way to spend my time. Face it. Like her or hater her, she is still enormously interesting and entertaining.

I don't want anything to do with her but Elizabeth is one of my favorite characters. Keri has made her utterly convincing and full of life in her rich multilayered portrayal. She's a calm, strong female which is refreshing, but has had her moments of softness and vulnerability. She doesn't enjoy harming others, like with Young-Hee, and she kills for a means to an end, not for pleasure (e.g., when a warehouse worker showed her a photo of his child and she warned him by taking the photo, but let him go). I do not need to agree with a character or find them likable to appreciate them. I do need to believe why they are doing what they are doing, and it helps if the portrayal has depth (which is why I don't care for Paige).

Edited April 26, 2018 by anonymiss

[Pink-n-Green]

Oh man, was Elizabeth honey potting Phillip early on in the episode to make him plant drugs on poor hapless Kimmy?

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, Bannon said:

As long as somebody gets the line "Missed it by THAT much!"  I'm totally cool with it.....

"Lady, there are 50 FBI agents outside this house right now, waiting for my command."

"You're bluffing"

"Would you believe one sad sack and his sexy wife who want to have dinner with you?"

[SusanSunflower]

I think Phillip was so grateful for E actually initiating sex (and his being able to avoid rejection) that his recognition that there was usually some "transaction involved" didn't spoil the enjoyment ...   Gregory helped make Elizabeth sexually responsive, but I think the first decade of that marriage was rather difficult sexually. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

I actually thought they were hearing Renee's big old lumberjack mobile when Paige pulled up in the driveway.

Rene drives a Jeep Cherokee and they were hugely popular in the ‘80s, a forerunner to the SUV craze of the ‘90s. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by RedHawk

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

It's Washington DC.  For all she knows, one of those guys she just punched out for no reason at all is connected to the main business in DC, the government. 

Now that would be the greatest scene.  Paige meets her guy from Senator Nunn's office for lunch, he notices her black eye and says "What happened?"  "I got in a fight with some asshole at a club last night.  He put his hands on me and I slugged him."  Enter Senator Nunn's other intern.

I have one nitpick.  During Philip and Elizabeth's post-coital scene in the kitchen, he pours them each a cup of coffee, presumably hot.  Try holding a hot cup of anything by the bowl instead of the handle, as Elizabeth does.  She's tough, I know, but...

[VagueDisclaimer]

I have a (likely dumb) question, but was there ever a way that Elizabeth and Philip and their family could’ve been completely free from spy life? Or was it spy life or becoming traitors to Russia and go into poor protection like Mr & Mrs Teacup? I’ve been having a discussion with a friend about this and i feel like i might have forgotten something.

Edited April 26, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[jjj]

4 hours ago, NitneLiun said:

I suspect Stan's chat with Philip had a purpose. He was clearly watching P closely to gauge his reaction.  Even The Americans Twitter account posted a gif last night showing Stan watching P more closely than he would have in a normal conversation.

I said the same thing a few pages back.  It did not seem like a regular "I'm looking at Philip" look, but a very intent "I need to see your reaction" look.  Like Philip (or Elizabeth or both) are already in Stan's sights.  But if he really thought he knew something, he would have them interrogated immediately.  I'll have to go find their Twitter account. 

ETA:  Oh, they do not just post the gif, the tweet says "Look closely" (at the moment Stan does that stare).  Hmmm.

Also, that kitchen scene seemed to be the next day, with light outside the windows.  And not first thing in the morning, as they were drinking beer.  (What do I know, maybe they drink beer every morning.)

Edited April 26, 2018 by jjj

[sistermagpie]

24 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

I have a (likely dumb) question, but was there ever a way that Elizabeth and Philip and their family could’ve been completely free from spy life? Or was it spy life or becoming traitors to Russia and go into poor protection like Mr & Mrs Teacup? I’ve been having a discussion with a friend about this and i feel like i might have forgotten something.

Yes, they could have gone back to the USSR and retired. That's what they were going to do at the end of last season but then Kimmy's dad got promoted and Elizabeth insisted they stay.

6 minutes ago, jjj said:

I said the same thing a few pages back.  It did not seem like a regular "I'm looking at Philip" look, but a very intent "I need to see your reaction" look.  Like Philip (or Elizabeth or both) are already in Stan's sights.  But if he really thought he knew something, he would have them interrogated immediately.  I'll have to go find their Twitter account. 

I think he was absolutely looking for his reaction. Not because he thought Philip felt guilty but because he did. He'd failed the couple.

[whiporee]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

keep thinking about Elizabeth choosing life/Philip choosing life even with this. Like Gregory chose death in the US with a pretty lie from Elizabeth vs. Martha choosing life in the USSR and Philip giving her the truth to do it. Elizabeth's risking so much but there's a suicidal tilt to the whole thing. Philip's risking just as much but it still reads as more of a choice for life. Him wanting to do good for others is more how he wants to live than what he wants to sacrifice his life for. He will sacrifice his life for it and for these other people, but he'd rather keep line dancing as well. 

That's a great point and here's a caveat: remember what the Mexico guy was worried about the USSR giving up? Dead Hand -- the protocol to allow the missles to launch even if the command structure is obliviated. It's about assuring the other side's destruction if your own has already occurred. She's doing all this for the most cynical reason imaginable -- to make sure if the USSR is attacked, the USA is destroyed, too. Presumably, that would include herself and her family. 

The whole thing is as suicidal as the necklace around her neck 

[Umbelina]

13 minutes ago, whiporee said:

That's a great point and here's a caveat: remember what the Mexico guy was worried about the USSR giving up? Dead Hand -- the protocol to allow the missles to launch even if the command structure is obliviated. It's about assuring the other side's destruction if your own has already occurred. She's doing all this for the most cynical reason imaginable -- to make sure if the USSR is attacked, the USA is destroyed, too. Presumably, that would include herself and her family. 

The whole thing is as suicidal as the necklace around her neck 

Yes, I mentioned that in the episode where she told Paige about it. 

Paige's reaction to learning that her mother was intent that Paige and everyone in America die as well if the USA attacked the USSR?  "Oh, OK, cool mom."  Not exactly, but come ON, it didn't even seem to register that her mother was trying to ensure Paige, and everyone Paige knows dies too.

[sistermagpie]

19 minutes ago, whiporee said:

The whole thing is as suicidal as the necklace around her neck 

Oh wow, I hadn't even thought about that but yes! And what was it that got Oleg in trouble? His refusal to risk unleashing a bioweapon on the USSR and others just because the US maybe had one. He was inspired by the guy who did not follow orders by launching a nuclear attack when the computer told him the US had launched one.

 

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Paige's reaction to learning that her mother was intent that Paige and everyone in America die as well if the USA attacked the USSR?  "Oh, OK, cool mom."  Not exactly, but come ON, it didn't even seem to register that her mother was trying to ensure Paige, and everyone Paige knows dies too.

I think you're thinking of the time Philip was going to meet with William. That was a weapon to use if they were attacked, but it wasn't like Dead Hand where it would literally just wipe out the USA if the USSR was already wiped out. The bioweapon, in theory, would be used if the USSR was still around to fight. I think they were vague about what that weapon was but Paige doesn't know anything about Dead Hand.

Edited April 26, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Trillian]

12 hours ago, JFParnell said:

Tough, extended episode to watch in places -- and y'all know the places I mean!

Oh, Lizzie. We were 20 minutes in and no one had died yet. I thought maybe you were going to take a break from your murder spree. That was ugly, and I can't imagine a single viewer out there who is any longer (or was anyone ever?) rooting for her character to become anything but a corpse resting on a slab in a morgue. Elizabeth must be stopped. Yay, thank God for Stan! Oh, errm, wait .... he's still mooching beers off of Philip and telling about his horrible not so very good day and ... sharing classified information with his neighbor(!!!). (Seriously, did Stan just freely tell his BFF across the street that the two dead people Philip would likely read about in the morning's papers were actually Russian defectors whom the FBI was -- badly, it seems -- babysitting? Gotta think Stan is wandering outside the FBI operations manual on that one.)

LOVED the scene between Oleg and Tatiana. It ran longer than you might expect and was the better for it. Oleg elevates this show whenever he's onscreen. I started this season presuming he's going to die, and I hope I'm wrong.

Plenty of good movies from 1987 for Liz, Paige and Claudia to rent at the video store. Wall Street came out that year! They'd love that. Although it might not have been available on tape (tape, sheesh!) yet.

Paige is past the point of parody. (A lot of alliteration from anxious anchors placed in powerful posts.) Didn't buy the "Paige loses it and exposes her ninja skills" scene -- it was just too obviously a "written" scene and setup, to get us usomeplace the writers needed/wanted to go next. The drink being had with the new boy who magically appears by the pinball machine; the lout nearby who behaves like a lout right when the script needs him to do so.

Henry disappeared yet again. Maybe the phone in the hallway at school is broken.

When Philip was finally, er, umm, well, with Kimmie, the look on his face was so perfectly "I have hit absolute rock bottom here ..." Loved his choice at the end, though it will probably cost him his life.

I'm still watching, though show can try my patience. I might just be watching to make sure Elizabeth dies! lol

You get a “like”just for the Broadcast News reference. Well done!

[Umbelina]

12 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

I think you're thinking of the time Philip was going to meet with William. That was a weapon to use if they were attacked, but it wasn't like Dead Hand where it would literally just wipe out the USA if the USSR was already wiped out. The bioweapon, in theory, would be used if the USSR was still around to fight. I think they were vague about what that weapon was but Paige doesn't know anything about Dead Hand.

 

Am I?  No, I think it was this season, though I certainly remember the William thing with Paige.  Maybe you are right, it's hard for me to keep all of Paige's idiocy straight.   I have been re-watching previous seasons though, so quite possible I'm mixing that up. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Umbelina

[SusanSunflower]

thanks.  And the USSR was undoubtedly disturbed by various (American) Rand studies about the "survivability of a nuclear war" ... The "paranoia" wasn't quite "paranoid" because  the the costs of a devastating first strike on the USSR were being considered "worth it" and "survivable"   -- dead hand was obviously seen as an important deterrent particularly considering the USA had used Nuclear weapons in the past)

carter and reagan both .... it was called "MAD" for a reason 

Edited April 27, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[hellmouse]

I keep thinking about Hans going through training with Elizabeth. If he had ever spoken to her the way Paige does, she probably would have cut him loose from the program. He respected her and admired her but most of all he respected her. 

Paige seems to respect Elizabeth the way a teenager respects a parent, not the way a spy-in-training respects the person training them. I don't know why Elizabeth or Claudia would think this is going well. It's so obviously not. As many have said, if they want to train her to do the eventual job of being in the CIA/State dept/ etc then they are going about it all wrong. She just doesn't seem to get that this is serious and that people get killed. Probably because Elizabeth hides it from her. Would Elizabeth have hidden it from Hans? Hell no. 

Elizabeth has no objectivity with Paige. if Philip were more involved, he'd see that Paige is incompetent. As that other agent said, she (Julie) is just too young. 

[SusanSunflower]

yes, Hans might be allowed to retire, meet a girl and have a family ... maybe but soldier-like, he knew that was not likely and depended both on not getting killed or caught by the Americans but also staying in favor with the KGB, Elizabeth et.al. 

Paige has no idea ... her parents were invaluable as a "breeding pair" and top notch agents (and I have always doubted if the KGB values either of them as much as Elizabeth believes .... the poison pill assignment "should" have made her doubt ... 

In theory, with a dull enough cover, Paige could have a normal life, career,  family and "breed" a third generation ... I agree that the KGB have spoiled her for such a rosy professional trajectory ... how ya gonna keep them down on the farm?  and, if when E and P are decommissioned or killed, I'm guessing her enthusiasm will wane and she will discover "no exit" 

[Anela]

21 hours ago, Umbelina said:

http://www.eisenhowerinstitute.org/about/living_history/wwii_soviet_experience.dot

Oh, I meant to try to quote part of the post. My Great Uncle refused to attend the wedding of my English mum, and American dad, because mum was marrying an American. He was in the army, and was angry over the US claiming to have won the war, when they said the US only came in near the end of it, after refusing when asked to help, in the past. 

19 hours ago, Umbelina said:

WHY didn't Mr. and Mrs. Teacup and their CHILD not have FBI guards present when Elizabeth broke in?

Honestly that's ridiculous.  Two nervous and unpredictable Russians and a child UNGUARDED?  To quote June in The Handmaid's Tale, "What in the actual FUCK?"

By the way, if you wondered where all of The American's incredible tension went?  I think The Handmaid's Tale got it all, so if you liked that, I highly recommend watching it.  Compared to this season and last years?  That show makes The American's look like a sit com.

I was surprised they didn't have guards, as well. At first, I thought Elizabeth saw Stan in the kitchen. I missed her seeing a child there. 

I wasn't giving this my full attention, and didn't catch all of the subtitles, because my dad stood in front of the TV during part of it. I was glad that Philip not only called Kimmy, and called off their relationship, but also warned her not to leave the Greece, except to come home. 

It's bugging me that Paige is still so naive, when she's supposed to be training as a spy. I'm glad she isn't getting her mother's training (like being raped), but it seems like all of this should have been covered during the time jump. Although I can see them not wanting know-it-all Paige, possibly blurting out facts about the Russian side of the war, in school or to anyone else. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Anela

[SusanSunflower]

Here's a short article about two close calls in 1983 .... 

http://theconversation.com/how-the-world-reached-the-brink-of-nuclear-war-not-once-but-twice-in-1983-68998

the American's didn't understand how seriously the USSR was taking their "evil empire threats" .... both incidents were "saved" by average soldiers refusing to counterstrike (after alarm of incoming) 

[sistermagpie]

51 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Am I?  No, I think it was this season, though I certainly remember the William thing with Paige.  Maybe you are right, it's hard for me to keep all of Paige's idiocy straight.   I have been re-watching previous seasons though, so quite possible I'm mixing that up. 

It's almost impossible to believe that if Paige did learn about Dead Hand that she would make the connection to being killed herself.

41 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

In theory, with a dull enough cover, Paige could have a normal life, career,  family and "breed" a third generation ... I agree that the KGB have spoiled her for such a rosy professional trajectory ... how ya gonna keep them down on the farm?  and, if when E and P are decommissioned or killed, I'm guessing her enthusiasm will wane and she will discover "no exit" 

Seems like if her parents are blown Paige should be blown as well. Even if Stan falls for her claiming that she had no idea it would take years for Paige to carefully create a persona where she pretended that her parents' identities made her patriotic enough to join the CIA or whatever. That's like a Charles Deluth level cover and there's no indication that Paige would have the patience or focus for that. She wants to be cool right now and with her mother watching. The FBI would be looking at her very closely once they knew about her real connections to the USSR.

If Paige was thrown into jail for treason I'd given her a few months before she was back to Christianity. The favorite girl in the prayer group once again.

49 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

I keep thinking about Hans going through training with Elizabeth. If he had ever spoken to her the way Paige does, she probably would have cut him loose from the program. He respected her and admired her but most of all he respected her. 

Seriously, there's nothing Hans ever did that reached any of the levels Paige has been hitting every time she's featured. His biggest mistake (before the one that killed him, which was just him literally falling over) was the time he came out too soon and was seen and Elizabeth fired him immediately. Hans only got himself back in by killing the witness himself. Paige not only gets her mistakes covered up she gets her "passion" for the cause spoon fed to her from Elizabeth as well. She's the princess of Directorate S and gets treated like royalty. And she seems to have decided that her father is a commoner or some peasant--which I guess he is. Don't underestimate peasants.

Edited April 27, 2018 by sistermagpie

[JFParnell]

54 minutes ago, Trillian said:

You get a “like”just for the Broadcast News reference. Well done!

Excellent! Glad you noticed! Also a 1987 movie I believe... probably not on Claudia's approved list either.

[SusanSunflower]

No, I"m not talking about P&E being rounded up by the Americans (which may happen but seems less likely than their dying in the new month).  Henry convincingly (because it's true) knows nothing ... Remember how Jared was treated like a victim and stenuously supported and protected from the bad-guys who killed his parents ... Stan might well decide to provide a surrogate home to Paige&Henry in the absence of any evidence either of them were involved (unless Paige is caught red handed).  Similarly the KGB has not reason to think either of them know anything so a week or two with Stan could be an opportunity for them to get their eggs in a row about "the kids" ... 

I assume the number of people who know about the plot to kill gorbachev is fewer than the fingers on one hand (but Elizabeth is not safe because she knows there was a plot).  Phillip should know nothing about it ... how much interrogation can he withdstand (assuming he survives) and/or if his meeting with Oleg are considered Treason, is an open question. 

 

I wouldn't put it past Langella to arrive like an angel of mercy and pull rank on the "outraged"  Claudia... 

Edited April 27, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[TexasGal]

8 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Based on where they are in DC, I doubt they'd drive to a bar. They would probably share a cab, take Metro/MetroBus or just walk. There's probably tons of places close by to get a drink

 

I was at GW in the 90’s and we never drove for a night out.  Walked, even far into Georgetown, and either walked back with a food stop on the way or cabbed.  

Philip showing Paige she wasn’t as tough as she thought she was, that was worth the price of admission.  Oh, and Paige didn’t look through her apartment peephole either.

[txhorns79]

Quote

It's bugging me that Paige is still so naive, when she's supposed to be training as a spy. I'm glad she isn't getting her mother's training (like being raped), but it seems like all of this should have been covered during the time jump. Although I can see them not wanting know-it-all Paige, possibly blurting out facts about the Russian side of the war, in school or to anyone else. 

The only thing I can guess is that Elizabeth's training has been more about shielding Paige than actually getting her to a point where she can be an American born version of Elizabeth.  I mean, I would hope that Paige came away from her sparring session with Phillip both horrified and terrified at how easily a real agent could take her down.    

[SusanSunflower]

If Paige is going to hang with Elizabeth, she needs gun training STAT.

[Anela]

16 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

 

On the other hand, I really loved the scene tonight where she kicked ass fighting those two buffoons.  If more women got martial arts training and reacted the same way to men putting their hands on them, I'm betting there would be far fewer men who mouth off with stupid shit directed at ladies. They most especially have no right to put their hands on someone else - especially a lady.  That was one of my favorite scenes of this entire show.

 

Me, too. I liked her hitting that douche who grabbed her. I don't know if he was "negging" her, in the hopes of getting her to want their approval, or if he was just being an ass for the hell of it. Either way, he shouldn't have grabbed her. The other one didn't really deserve a punch, but he could have stood up for her, to his friend. 

14 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

Wow this board has really turned on The Americans! The killings made it difficult to watch but I thought this was the best episode this season so far. If it feels like somewhat of a different show from prior seasons think it’s meant to. I can be bored by Paige, too, but I liked the fire she showed leaving the garage after the sparring session. And I loved Philip’s closing phone call with Kimmie. When he warned her not to go to a Communist country with anyone while traveling I had the same feeling as when he took ‘Clark’s’ wig off for Martha. It struck me that we’ve seen him get close to two marks and in some way reveal himself to them but that has happened zero times with Elizabeth. 

What we need next is a real sense of actual FBI investigation and dot connecting, not just a convo in the sound proof room where that’s all happened off-screen. That I would complain about. (And I do agree they should have established how E knew which apartment window to crawl through.)

I thought it was the best episode this season, too. 

Going back to my previous post, I didn't see a child, and thought maybe she felt bad for killing Russians, after her talk about losing 24 million in the war. It looked like they were watching something Russian on the television, or something war-related. 

I hope Tatiana doesn't get Oleg killed. 

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Anela said:

Going back to my previous post, I didn't see a child, and thought maybe she felt bad for killing Russians, after her talk about losing 24 million in the war. It looked like they were watching something Russian on the television, or something war-related. 

It looked they were watching a March of the Wooden Soldiers type movie--maybe it was that. With the obvious symbolism of a movie about soldiers that was being watched by a child while soldier Elizabeth, fresh off complaining that the Americans don't give enough respect to the Russians who died in WWII, murders his two Russian parents. All kids being drafted into war.

[kokapetl]

I liked Phillip showing Paige how useful her garage karate would be against someone actually dangerous. 

Claudia was good as a handler. Now all she seems to do is throw communist girl’s nights. 

[AllyB]

Would 20 year old Paige be that interested in hearing about her mother's sex life? I enjoy funny sex chat as much as the next person but even at twice Paige's age I'm not sure I'd be fully comfortable having a giggly chat with my mother about the time some guy jizzed on her knickers when she was (very) young.

Edited April 27, 2018 by AllyB

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

I think Phillip was so grateful for E actually initiating sex (and his being able to avoid rejection) that his recognition that there was usually some "transaction involved" didn't spoil the enjoyment ...   Gregory helped make Elizabeth sexually responsive, but I think the first decade of that marriage was rather difficult sexually. 

OMG! I just realized the show runner wants us to wonder if E was using sex to get P to do what she wanted with Kimmie. Pretty brutal!

[CaliCheeseSucks]

14 hours ago, JFParnell said:

(A lot of alliteration from anxious anchors placed in powerful posts.)

A million upvotes for that reference!

[MisterBluxom]

6 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I really enjoyed watching Philip beat up Paige. I hope he does it again next week.

That little asshole is ruining the final season for me. I HATE her now. I hope Elizabeth gets her killed by accident.

I hope you won't mind my asking. I know the actress isn't very good. But I'd really like to know what it is about the character that causes you to hate her?

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

The only thing I can guess is that Elizabeth's training has been more about shielding Paige than actually getting her to a point where she can be an American born version of Elizabeth.  I mean, I would hope that Paige came away from her sparring session with Phillip both horrified and terrified at how easily a real agent could take her down.    

But Elizabeth has made it clear to her daughter that she is not intended to do the same kind of work as her mother.

The plan is for Paige to work for the State Department or CIA and just report what she hears and sees. She is not intended to kill people or force them to do things for the benefit of Russia.

[crgirl412]

22 hours ago, jjj said:

Why the F did they even need Philip for this?  They have hordes of spies who could abduct Kimmie in Greece and take her to Bulgaria.  Philip even could have written their plane/train tickets. 

The guys who killed Gaad might be free. 

[jjj]

15 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

The guys who killed Gaad might be free. 

Too soon...☹️