S06.E03: Urban Transport Planning

[anonymiss]

The Russian stew scene reminded me of the Russian caviar scene from Season 1. Then they enjoyed it together but now Philip is too full from American Chinese food--not even the authentic food of a culture but the Americanized assimilated version of it.

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Elizabeth's lecture to Paige the other day about how the world isnt black and white and is actually grey is seriously hilarious on every level coming from Elizabeth, who has the most black and white thinking of any person this entire show. Almost everyone else can at least somewhat see the grayness of this conflict, and that its more complicated than Team A is Good Always and Team B is Bad Always, to varying degrees, but Elizabeth is just "USSR is good and the US is bad" over and over, even in the face of the complete freaking obvious. Anything bad about the USSR is just American propaganda, and anything American is bad because...West is bad.

Because there is no other way that an intelligent person who has lived in the US for most of her life now could be that ridiculously narrow minded.

She is like the millions of politically polarized people in the world who can see/admit to nuance except when it conflicts with their political beliefs. In America, depending on who you ask, they're called Republicans or Democrats.

[RedHawk]

20 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

It's kind of great how in this ep he's trying to do the travel agent thing and obviously not enjoying the money issues or having to try to make his employees magically make more money and when he finally seems to do something just because he's making the choice to do it it's to go see Oleg. Maybe he's not totally happy about that either, but he knows what he's doing and why. He finally looks like himself again and he's not quoting EST or a business book.

He looks like himself again, even though in disguise. I too was happy to see Phillip in the bad mustache.

Edited April 12, 2018 by RedHawk

[Pink-n-Green]

18 hours ago, jjj said:

Philip, if you want to know the moment your marriage stopped having any chance of recovering, it was the moment you declined to eat the stew that Elizabeth carried back in a drippy container in her good handbag and presented to you so shyly and proudly.  Then she looked at you with such hope in her eyes when you came over and took ONE BITE.  It was not really stew, Philip, it was a plastic container of the last chance at love. 

jjj for the win!  My eyes are leaking.

[Umbelina]

5 hours ago, teddysmom said:

I guess I'm confused, he said Teresa aka Janice (sorry)  already knew about the security audit? Or knew about the problems? 

I figured Elizabeth just gave him the spiel about the audit and keeping it on the DL, to get the info on the weak spots in their system, not that it was a real audit she somehow became a part of. . 

I had some issues with this episode, but this was not one of them.  Granny handed Elizabeth the name of the mark.  Soviets are working on a short and rather desperate clock here.  Obviously, they didn't know the dude had a girlfriend in security.  Should they have known?  Of course.  But, they didn't.  That was a KGB fuck up, but not bad writing to me, because they've laid the groundwork about rushed and over-worked.

Elizabeth HAD to kill him, absolutely no choice.  He would have definitely told his girlfriend, after all, that's what couple's do, and his girlfriend would obviously already know about it.  If Liz tried to spin some yarn about "no, she doesn't?"  Even that dude would be suspicious, and start memorizing her face, height, etc. 

This was Martha when the guy "Clark" was pretending to be actually walked into the FBI. 

5 hours ago, benteen said:

If this is the case, it's another indication that the writing has really gotten sloppy since Season 5 and it doesn't bode well that the writers are going to stick the landing in the end.

Yeah, I thought Henry had a full scholarship too and I don't get the retcon.  The administrator's behavior doesn't make sense either.  According to him, Philip has never missed a payment before and if this is a "first offense" for the parents of a top student, why was he treating Philip like a guy who is never on time with his payments?

 

The whole "full scholarship" thing is usually a semester by semester, or at least a year by year thing.  SO many things could make that change that I have no problem with it at all.  Maybe Henry's grades slipped, maybe they found him some other partial scholarships, but not a full boat ride.  Maybe the school is in financial straights, and cutting back on things (which was happening a lot around then) or a million other maybes.  Obviously the school is working with Philip here, they want Henry to stay.

I just don't care why the school is asking for money.  The real story is Philip as straight up capitalist is strapped at the moment.  The USSR is beyond broke now, trying to keep up with Star Wars, and my guess is they fully expect the Jennings to keep the damn gift of a business making money.  Add to that Philip not even being a spy anymore?  Why would he even think of asking the KGB to help with Henry's school fees, OR his business?  The last thing Phil wants is the KGB looking closer at his other child.

Elizabeth never wanted Henry in that decadent bourgeoisie school anyway, so he can't tell her.

Of course with Philip's skills, he could break into anyplace and just steal some money.

There are times when being small and well trained while murdering someone seems probable enough for me not to roll my eyes.  Last night?  Not one of those times.  Yes, he was surprised, but he was fighting for his life!  He was HUGE, he could have just banged her into the wall with his body weight, etc. 

That one was stupid.  Why not cast a smaller actor to play the part?

5 hours ago, Ina123 said:

There was no real audit. Because of his position in the warehouse he was targeted and given the story that it was an audit and that it was secret. Elizabeth was just using his info so when she, or another operative, breaks in to steal the radiation thingamajig, they will know where it is and what the obstacles are. The fact that the girlfriend was in security he just assumed she would know and the chances were that he would blab. That's why she killed him. (or she had planned to kill him all along. I don't think so or she would have had a better plan).

Yup!

3 hours ago, RedHawk said:

 

Right, Elizabeth could have done some quick thinking and said, "No, I haven't met Theresa yet. I just interview whoever they send me. Again, please don't discuss this with her, especially as she's with Security and I may interview her later." She's not on her game these days.

Also good point that Henry may not be a huge standout in his school. I sort of assumed it was true as have some other posters, but no, we don't know that. We have seen that he seems to be a key player on the hockey team, and that the girls like him, not sure about his academic rank.

 

Elizabeth couldn't risk it, the intel she got from the guy was too valuable, and obtaining this doohickey much too critical. 

Hockey could be taking his focus off academics too, who knows, that part of the story just doesn't bother me.

3 hours ago, Mumbles said:

I wonder if these occasional Soviet Culture Appreciation nights with Paige is to get her acclimated to a life back in the USSR if she and Elizabeth ever have to go back. I know that last season when Elizabeth and Phillip were discussing the possibility of quitting and heading home, the fact that the kids didn't have any knowledge of that culture was something they were concerned about.

Nah.  They don't want Paige back in the USSR.  Above all, the KGB wants her in place for a very long time in a sensitive position in the USA.  That's the whole point of the ridiculous Paige endless story.

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Just because characters haven't reappeared in the first three episodes of the season, it doesn't mean they're never coming back. I doubt that the Kimmie plotline has been dropped entirely. Her father being made the head of the Soviet Division was the entire reason that P&E didn't return to the Soviet Union at the end of last season. Also, I don't think we have seen the last of young Misha. The wheat, eh, that story naturally ended. 

It's been THREE long years.  Kimmie could be at UCLA and soaking in the rays on the beach with a bunch of new friends  and a boyfriend that actually has sex with her, or several.  The Kimmie story worked for me, but there is no way she's still living with her dad, no briefcase for Philip to bug.  We may get one tiny reference to her, but I don't care if we don't.  Ops end.

2 hours ago, jjj said:

I think this subplot is purely about "Philip is in a desperate financial situation."  Henry's tuition is just a way of letting us know.  Does the KGB pay the mortgage via some laundered source?  I'm surprised they are not paying for Henry's school, as another potential second-gen recruit.  I mean, that is The Plan that Gabriel told E/P. 

I kind of addressed this above, but yes, I do think it would be cool if Henry was recruited for the KGB by someone else, maybe a year ago in show time.  That said, I agree, I think it's showing a man between two countries/economic systems, Philip.  He's not really doing a great job at either, he's just an average guy realizing there isn't a "perfect" solution to any of it.

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

My parents made that exact dish for me many times during my childhood....Holy shit ya'll.... my parents are Russian spies!!!!

----

Sophia totally played the FBI for nothing. She got a big wad of cash, her teeth fixed, and now she and her child can live under FBI protection forever. She will now run through American guys like water. I think they are also showing how caring the Americans are to this totally useless source by coming in as saving her life like knights in shining armor as compared to the KGB who do not even care about protecting a valuable asset like Elizabeth.

----

The truth is Capitalism was never easy and yes, the odds are stacked against the little guy who does not have a ton of money or connections. I hate it on TV when someone on tv has one experience in a business and is shown being amazingly successful in about a year.

Phillip expanded in boom times and now the market has changed. Instead of primo customized packages, more people are opting for lower-end budget deals for their vacations.  If Phillip starts offering lower budget deals, he will not be able to cover the costs of business the way it is now. He will probably have to let people go and downsize to a smaller operation. This would have been excellent stuff to handle last season instead of watching wheat grow.

 

There is exactly ONE sort-of unusual ingredient in that dish.  White cabbage.  Such bullshit to throw it away.  I think the writers would have rather used something like borsch.  BUT, they used that already during the Martha on the run episode, so they couldn't.

Still, I'll bring Mad Men into this too, decades earlier Betty was serving "dishes from around the world" at her fancy party.  Meat, root vegetables, either soup or stew is not going to raise any American eyebrows.  Gaaaaawwwwd.

==

The efforts made to save two useless assets were nice, and I loved the simultaneous pick ups, but honestly, as I said earlier, they did all this for them and they wouldn't lift a finger to help Nina.  WTF?  Nina actually knew stuff.

==

Totally agree, I LOVE that it isn't easy for Philip, I LOVE that he has a new car, car phone, removable tape deck, and obviously spent a fortune expanding the travel agency, and is now facing cash flow problems. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Umbelina
y

[Helena Dax]

19 hours ago, jjj said:

I have seen some painful things on this show, but in the top five is going to be Philip as carnival barker/QVC host at 2:00 AM, frenetically pushing his apathetic office staff to "SUCCEED!". It just hurt.  

"It's been three years.  How many times do you think he can fake a shit in an airport crapper?"  StanLogic.  Apparently this was their only trick; I thought then tended to mix up these mission methods. Seriously, three years of that? 

I agree, it was absolutely mortifying. However, I think Philip should be good at that. I mean, he's always been great with people. 

18 hours ago, chocolatine said:

 

Poor Philip, he thought leaving the KGB and living like a regular American would make him happy, but he's still miserable. And he didn't even get to enjoy the zharkoye properly because he'd already filled up on kung pao chicken and lo mein.

 

 

17 hours ago, Shriekingeel said:

 

Phillip declining to eat the stew because he’d filled up on take-out was such a metaphor.

 

I also liked the opposition between take-away food and homemade, traditional food. 

I enjoyed the episode. Yes, the murder wasn't exactly believable, but there have been unbelievable things in this show since the beginning, like the insane amount of missions they had, so it doesn't bother me. And I liked what it means, or what I think it means: things -the KGB, Elizabeth, the USSR- are crumbling down. In fact, something broke inside her when she received that cyanide pill. I think deep down, she believes she's going to end up dead. And thus, she needs to believe she's going to die for the greatest cause of all. 

Stan's face when Renee told him she wanted to be a FBI agent was a thing of beauty. He had the same expression while he was talking to that Russian woman. It's like his brain freezes in shock and he needs some seconds to reset.

[WritinMan]

6 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

In size vs know-how, I will always go with know-how. The only beef I have is if it's pro vs pro and the smaller woman wins. But against some schlub who's probably never thrown a punch in his life? I have no problem with the outcome.

This wasn't really a "know-how" situation. It wasn't a martial arts type of fight. She is so skinny, he could have easily back-up and slammed her against the wall--probably breaking her ribs--and escaped.

Not very believable.

[AimingforYoko]

7 minutes ago, WritinMan said:

he could have easily back-up and slammed her against the wall--probably breaking her ribs--and escaped.

Force = Mass x acceleration. In a small room like that he's not able to build up much acceleration. He was a schlub, not a wrestler. A carotid choke would incapacitate him in under 20 seconds.

[WritinMan]

3 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Force = Mass x acceleration. In a small room like that he's not able to build up much acceleration. He was a schlub, not a wrestler. A carotid choke would incapacitate him in under 20 seconds.

What I described doesn't require being a wrestler. And 20 seconds would be enough time.

Nah. Not buying it.

Edited April 12, 2018 by WritinMan
Added stuff!

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, shura said:

I am not sure she is the moron, actually. It was Stan's and Aderholt's idea to recruit her, she didn't even want to do it at first. Nor was it her idea to go into witness protection now. Basically, she was begged to accept the wads of cash and anything else she wants (like dental) in exchange to just doing whatever she would be doing otherwise, and then told that the US government is going to take care of her, thank you very much. It's pretty smart to accept all of that, don't you think? Of course, now Elizabeth is coming for her, so yeah... Well, maybe she'll get lucky again.

I agree.  I commented on this last year.  They seemed to be going around foisting themselves on anyone and everyone until they got a taker.  It seemed to have no rhyme or reason.  I couldn't believe the FBI would operate so openly and foolishly.

[AllyB]

19 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I hope she lives to see 1990, when Moscow got not only a Pizza Hut, but also a McDonald's. I still remember how big of a deal it was at the time, and I wasn't even living in Moscow.

I think I mentioned this on a thread last year but a friend of mine was at that opening. Her father's job involved establishing business channels in the newly opening markets in Russia so he was there a lot in the late 80s/early 90s. The rest of the family were able to join him for a number of holidays and happened to be in Moscow on the day McDonald's opened. They thought the atmosphere in the queue was so fun that they joined in and waited 4 or 5 hours for a burger that they could have had whenever they wanted at home.

[Umbelina]

Quote

• In a potentially series-defining development, Dennis mentioned Rennhull’s death to Stan, and Stan noted the odd coincidence of a man with no history of depression, who in Season 2 killed someone who accused him of being a Soviet spy, now turning up dead in a park. We know what happens when something gets stuck in Stan’s mind.  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/arts/television/the-americans-season-6-episode-3-recap-urban-transport-planning.html

Good catch recapper MIKE HALE, we haven't really mentioned this little scene much in this thread yet, but at the time, I also thought, "yes, we've seen Stan take a tidbit and work it all out before."

In retrospect, perhaps this scene was much more important than much of anything else in this episode, as far as story goes...

[EtheltoTillie]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Good catch recapper MIKE HALE, we haven't really mentioned this little scene much in this thread yet, but at the time, I also thought, "yes, we've seen Stan take a tidbit and work it all out before."

In retrospect, perhaps this scene was much more important than much of anything else in this episode, as far as story goes...

Stan has moments of brilliance, then he has many moments of stupidity, such as not recognizing Phillip's picture several times or blundering the Oleg tape situation.

Edited April 12, 2018 by GussieK

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, anonymiss said:

The Russian stew scene reminded me of the Russian caviar scene from Season 1. Then they enjoyed it together but now Philip is too full from American Chinese food--not even the authentic food of a culture but the Americanized assimilated version of it.

That makes me think of another difference--it's leftovers. That was Elizabeth and Claudia and Paige's special dinner and Elizabeth just brought some home in some tupperware. The caviar was something Philip put together as a romantic treat for Elizabeth, complete with a nice presentation. Just as he tainted the whole thing by eating dinner beforehand, she had already brought the work and other people in on it.

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Elizabeth never wanted Henry in that decadent bourgeoisie school anyway, so he can't tell her.

Elizabeth was just fine with him being in that school. It was *Philip* who didn't want him there. Elizabeth didn't even understand why Philip even cared. Thought it was funny. I found it bizarre at the time.

In fact, I think I have may have mentioned earlier that if Henry had to come home at this point I wouldn't be surprise if Elizabeth was angry at the inconvenience. She seems like she expects to die soon but it's unclear if she has any last thoughts she'd like to leave with her other kid.

1 hour ago, Helena Dax said:

I agree, it was absolutely mortifying. However, I think Philip should be good at that. I mean, he's always been great with people. 

I think he's better with people one on one. Psyching up an office is probably different. Also, the flop sweat. Oh, the flop sweat.

52 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Force = Mass x acceleration. In a small room like that he's not able to build up much acceleration. He was a schlub, not a wrestler. A carotid choke would incapacitate him in under 20 seconds.

None of that required him being a wrestler or needing much acceleration.

25 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I agree.  I commented on this last year.  They seemed to be going around foisting themselves on anyone and everyone until they got a taker.  It seemed to have no rhyme or reason.  I couldn't believe the FBI would operate so openly and foolishly.

As they themselves said, the FBI doesn't have to hide. If people saw what they were doing, that was all the better for them because it fostered paranoia. Also, whether or not Gennady has given them good information it's just not true to say he himself wasn't somebody they'd want. He was a courier and they couldn't be choosy. As the home team they can go up and talk to anybody they want.

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

In retrospect, perhaps this scene was much more important than much of anything else in this episode, as far as story goes...

Oh yeah, I thought that was definitely a plant. Not much to talk about in this episode but they firmly established that *of course* the FBI doesn't believe this guy killed himself in the park. It's absurd. There's a lot of ways that can go. The guy's family, too, would never believe such a thing. Remember when Gene's family was looking for answers? The Soviets (that is, Elizabeth) have been telegraphing their evil intent all over the place. The Americans will probably figure out they're trying to steal weaponry at least--and nw they're murdering generals to do it. Seems like that's the kind of thing that derailed peace talks when Gary Powers was shot down over the USSR. This is murder of a general!

[Penman61]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Like if Paige finds the dignity to consider asking to be loved as herself. She'd obviously be just as happy making stir fry vegetables in a wok. I wonder if she ever has the nerve to say she doesn't like something. It would probably cause a major problem. (Like Megan Draper not liking orange sherbet.)

 

Triggered.

I can't escape her.  She tasks me...she tasks me...

[companionenvy]

Delurking to note that I thought that Renee's play, assuming she's a spy and this isn't a major misdirect, was not based on the belief that there was any chance in hell that Stan could get her into the FBI. Rather, she's playing that card in the hope that he'll throw her a bone and let her in on something as a way of making her feel more involved. And honestly, I don't think its a bad idea.

Stan is a trained spy and knows to be suspicious of people trying to get close to him, but he isn't a superman, to say the least; he never did figure out that Nina had turned triple agent, and, of course, hasn't managed to uncover the spies next door. And to be fair, Renee seems to have been playing a very, very long game. For her not to, as far as we know, have said anything at all suspicious for several years builds up a lot of credibility by the time she gets to the wacky "I'm joining the FBI" plan. 

What she's actually doing is another matter, but if I had to guess, she's not there because of Stan alone, but because Stan lives next door to the Jenningses. 

[jjj]

16 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Good catch recapper MIKE HALE, we haven't really mentioned this little scene much in this thread yet, but at the time, I also thought, "yes, we've seen Stan take a tidbit and work it all out before."

In retrospect, perhaps this scene was much more important than much of anything else in this episode, as far as story goes...

Someone here seemed to think it had not made much of an impression on Stan, and I was going to say that Aderholt's eyebrows disagree, wriggling quizzically.  And it was Aderholt who made the connection back to the earlier season where the general (then colonel) was accused of colluding with the Soviets. 

[Dev F]

35 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Delurking to note that I thought that Renee's play, assuming she's a spy and this isn't a major misdirect, was not based on the belief that there was any chance in hell that Stan could get her into the FBI. Rather, she's playing that card in the hope that he'll throw her a bone and let her in on something as a way of making her feel more involved. And honestly, I don't think its a bad idea.

Agreed. It may also be a way of pushing Stan himself back into counterintelligence, both by guilting him into thinking that if his wife can be more of a devoted patriot he can too, and by reassuring him that she won't resent him for pursuing such an all-consuming career the way Sandra did.

5 hours ago, shura said:

I wonder then if what was a full scholarship in his first year got scaled back later on as a matter of policy somehow? Like, we hooked him in, now that he is here let's get his parents to start paying some?

There's been a lot of talk about whether there's a way to justify Henry no longer having a full scholarship or if it's just a cheap retcon, but I went back and checked the transcripts from last season, and there's no indication he ever had a full scholarship to begin with. There are only two mentions of Henry getting scholarship funds: in "IHOP," Philip asks if the school is expensive, and Henry says. "Yeah, but at St. Edwards, I can probably get a scholarship." Then in "The Soviet Division" he just says, "I got in! To St. Edwards. And I got the scholarship."

To me that seems totally consistent with the idea that Henry got a partial scholarship that brought a school that was otherwise too expensive down into their upper-middle-class price range, until Philip blew all their money on expanding the family business.

I was also thinking about what I mentioned earlier, how the mechanics of the travel agency business would explain how Philip got himself into such a cash flow crunch. I realized that the exact timing of the expansion also accounts for why it was such a problem. Philip mentions that this is the first time he'll be late making a payment, on "this quarter's billing." If he's paying quarterly, and the last time he had no problem making good, it suggests that he didn't start dropping money on the expansion until around the spring of that year.

Why is that significant? Because as I mentioned in my earlier post, travel agencies don't get paid until people actually go on their trips, and people book their trips months in advance. They also mostly travel in the summer. So if Philip was stupid enough to expand his travel agency just before the summer travel season, it means he'd have to wait almost a year for most of the new business to pay out.

Come to think of it, that's why losing Jeremy's business was so significant. Phil specifically asks him, "Do we have you guys all set up for this year?" not ". . . for next summer?" or ". . . for next spring?" That means that his family were among the relatively rare fall or winter travelers, and Phil was counting on their money coming in sometime in the next three months. Missing a big winter sale while waiting for summer sales to come due could potentially fuck the company over very badly.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Dev F

[J-Man]

Quote

Maybe she should meet with Oleg, and he can tell her about the groceries with three cans in them, the endless hoops he has to jump through to get one damn thing accomplished, and the fact that they still cant afford proper lighting in the whole freaking country! 

Liz needs to call Martha and say "Hey, girl -- how's the shopping sitch in Moscow these days?"

Would Paige ever get to the point of turning her parents (or at least her mother) in to the FBI? I keep thinking that all during that tongue-lashing Elizabeth was giving her that if she gets pushed far enough, Paige could easily blow the whole thing up.

[zibnchy]

Keri Russell is, of course, a very small person. Most any shlubby guy could probably crush her like a bug if she happened to be trying to murder him. But we're talking about shlubby guy VS Elizabeth Jennings, a woman who has not only been trained to kill, she has actually killed people in ways we can't imagine. In addition she's angry and driven. Shlub never had a snowball's chance in hell. Shlub should apologize to Elizabeth for making her have to kill him. That's what I think. YMMV

Can you believe how much time we wasted on wheat? And that kid who worked with them last season whose name I can't be bothered to remember?

Edited April 13, 2018 by zibnchy
random thoughts

[TVbitch]

Easy Phillip, don't go in too hard on your killah wife! When he was questioning her in the kitchen for details about her mission, Lizzy was giving him a bit of suspicious eyeballing, before she shut down the conversation. If it comes down to "Phillip needs to be eliminated," that would make for some powerful end drama. Although, knowing Phillip, he would probably just kneel down and tell Lizzy to "go ahead and do it!" But I would prefer he grab Henry and run. 

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, Dev F said:

There's been a lot of talk about whether there's a way to justify Henry no longer having a full scholarship or if it's just a cheap retcon, but I went back and checked the transcripts from last season, and there's no indication he ever had a full scholarship to begin with. There are only two mentions of Henry getting scholarship funds: in "IHOP," Philip asks if the school is expensive, and Henry says. "Yeah, but at St. Edwards, I can probably get a scholarship." Then in "The Soviet Division" he just says, "I got in! To St. Edwards. And I got the scholarship."

FWIW, those were the two things I was remembering and I knew they didn't lay out exactly what the scholarship was I still think it's a retcon. Last year's story was all about how Henry was so suddenly amazing everyone who met him wanted to help him. Philip couldn't use money as an excuse because "scholarship" covered everything no matter what. Now "scholarship" is more like just a discount that doesn't help much.  It still seems like last year's story was about Henry was such a superstar there were no obstacles in his way except his Dad wanting him at home and now it's that Henry the superstar's life might be derailed because it turns out something was being required from Dad and now his bad business decisions keep him from delivering. They could have just written it originally as Henry actually *asking* for something from his parents and saying he thought he'd be eligible for financial aid it would be consistent. With Philip too--he'd be giving in to something Henry wanted because he wanted it with money as well as letting him go.

I have no problem with Philip's side of the equation. I get why he doesn't have the money now. But the totally different thrust of the Henry story just bugs me. It would be like if in season 2 Philip was struggling to convince Martha to stay married because the show never said for sure that Martha wasn't just getting married because she thought Clark wanted it. I know they're not exactly the same thing, but I found this story a bit annoying last year so now it's doubly annoying.

19 minutes ago, zibnchy said:

Most any shlubby guy could probably crush her like a bug if she happened to be trying to murder him. But we're talking about shlubby guy VS Elizabeth Jennings, a woman who has not only been trained to kill, she has actually killed people in ways we can't imagine.

But that's basically admitting that she's a comic book hero rather than the kind of character the show has tried to claim she is. I mean, nobody's surprised that she can kill anyone she sets her mind to. We're just saying it's a cartoon. She's not beating the guy because it's realistic. She's beating him because she's Elizabeth Jennings, Batwoman.

[txhorns79]

Quote

But that's basically admitting that she's a comic book hero rather than the kind of character the show has tried to claim she is. I mean, nobody's surprised that she can kill anyone she sets her mind to. We're just saying it's a cartoon. She's not beating the guy because it's realistic. She's beating him because she's Elizabeth Jennings, Batwoman.

I view it more like Elizabeth had two advantages for which the guy could not compensate.  She had the element of surprise and she knows how to quickly kill someone.  Even if he's bigger than she is, she basically had him on the ground before he even realized what was happening. 

[Ellaria]

Ugh...not a favorite episode. 

Just my opinion but Elizabeth has no redeeming qualities at this point. Getting tired of her weekly kills. I understand that her training gives her an advantage over most targets but, at some point, it stretches credulity. 

Philip should never hope to be a motivational speaker. He also isn’t the best cash flow manager but I believe that he will do whatever it takes to keep Henry in boarding school. Henry embodies the opportunities that Philip never had.

Why can’t they keep a small container of beef stew in the refrigerator? Because someone will figure out that they are KGB? Who is snooping around in their frig in the first place? (Wonder what people would think that my profession was if they looked in my refrigerator?)

I have no words for the “Renee wants to be an FBI agent” bomb. It is either a lame piece of writing or the writers are trolling us.

At some level, Elizabeth knows that Paige isn’t a good spy. It is one of the many things that she is unable to admit to herself. I also suspect that she doesn’t quite realize how much she appreciates the modern conveniences of American life along with snazzy coats and boots. 

Oleg...run as fast as you can because bad things are coming for you. 

[kokapetl]

I think Phil’s money issues will be solved by him selling his spy services to Oleg’s people. 

[sistermagpie]

26 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

I think Phil’s money issues will be solved by him selling his spy services to Oleg’s people. 

I don't know...Oleg's people are his people. It's Arkady, the head of Directorate S. The whole thing up until now has been framed as a brave choice to do what's right even though it's dangerous. And Oleg really has no way to pay him. Arkady can't use the usual channels to even talk to Philip, much less somehow get money to him.

[Fouts]

One more short historical tidbit about the McDonalds first opening in Moscow:  

When McDonalds trained its first set of Moscow employees, managers instructed staff to smile broadly at each customer, per company custom.  One of the young female cashiers remarked to a reporter that she worried her friends would think she'd gone mad--Russians didn't normally go around grinning like that unless they'd lost some mental capacity.  

[jjj]

I think the recap mentioned how low the peephole was on Oleg's hotel door.  I know he is tall, but for what short person was it built -- even if Oleg stooped down to look through it, all he would have seen is Stan's tie.  So, it needs a short person on both sides.  

[TaurusRose]

21 hours ago, jjj said:

And these days, what kind of shit would an elementary school give to two apparent FBI agents wanting to whisk off a small child?  (Even back in 1987,  just the badges might not have been convincing enough.) 

None. FBI is law enforcement at the federal level with lots of authority . Badges and guns trump civilian interference. 

[jjj]

5 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

None. FBI is law enforcement at the federal level with lots of authority . Badges and guns trump civilian interference. 

I meant, how many different ways would they verify these are actual FBI agents.  I'd want to make a call to a field office.  We see the magic of false ID with Elizabeth! 

[TaurusRose]

16 minutes ago, jjj said:

I meant, how many different ways would they verify these are actual FBI agents.  I'd want to make a call to a field office.  We see the magic of false ID with Elizabeth! 

That right there is the conceit of this series.

[Dev F]

The talk of the FBI absconding with a small child reminded me -- the kid who played Sofia's son looked familiar to me, but I couldn't figure out where I'd seen him before. Turns out he played the main character in the instant-classic SNL sketch from last season, "Wells for Boys":

[jjj]

16 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

That right there is the conceit of this series.

Imagine if the interviewee had said to Elizabeth, "great to meet you, you don't mind if I call the company to verify that you work there?"  His life would have been about 30 minutes shorter.  (I mean, he clearly had some sort of security training if he knew where there were breaches in their security.) 

[Umbelina]

41 minutes ago, jjj said:

I meant, how many different ways would they verify these are actual FBI agents.  I'd want to make a call to a field office.  We see the magic of false ID with Elizabeth! 

The FBI aren't idiots.

They would have the paperwork already, they obviously already stopped quickly at the principal's office, since she preceded them into the classroom.  It's easy to assume the principal ALREADY checked, one call to the FBI would do it.

The FBI guys didn't burst in and just demand it of the teacher, the principal came in to get him, with them trailing behind her. 

They were there to save that kid's life, since his mother and step dad's actions jeopardized his life.  They planned and executed the rescues simultaneously for a reason, it's easy to assume the FBI got it all ready to arrive at the school first, so the principal could verify everything.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Umbelina

[scrb]

On 4/11/2018 at 8:32 PM, Pickles said:

How does Elizabeth dispose of that guy's body? He is a big guy. 

Not only that, she chokes the guy to death, with those burly arms of hers.

IRL, he'd easily throw KR off of him or flip her over his head.

In the previous episode, she wrestles a bigger man for the gun.

I can buy that she would know advanced fighting techniques, be quicker and more decisive in delivering blows.

But wrestling two guys in close quarters like that?

Of course she couldn't afford blood splatter in that hotel room but what is she going to do, put his corpse in a body bag and lug it to her car, then chop up the body and dispose of it?

Dexter was wasting his time doing all that prep and post-kill work.

[magemaud]

Henry is a junior at that fancy prep school and maybe he is there on an academic scholarship (not a "full ride") so his parents are still expected to pay his room and board. 

[jjj]

24 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

The FBI guys didn't burst in and just demand it of the teacher, the principal came in to get him, with them trailing behind her. 

Yeah, I did not say that.  I was just musing about what a school today would do when confronted by apparent FBI agents.  I was not saying The 1987 FBI did anything out of protocol.  I was musing from a principal's point of view, "How do I make sure they are who they say they are?" 1987 guys executed their job well in this episode. 

[Umbelina]

They would do the same thing, go to the principal's office, with the needed paperwork, and let them call the FBI, with an extension already set up for speed.  The principal would accompany them so the teacher wouldn't ask questions.

Actually today it would be easier, just let ICE go grab him from the chair.  No paperwork, no rules, just brute intimidation.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Umbelina

[Dowel Jones]

8 hours ago, shura said:

Of course, now Elizabeth is coming for her,

Right after she takes care of one or two of the arms negotiators, and the financial guy at the prep school (after he signs the papers restructuring the tuition), and maybe even the kid at the deli who mispronounced pirozhki.

Renee doesn't work for the USSR, or the FBI.  She works for TPC (if you're old like me and remember that reference).

[jjj]

4 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Renee doesn't work for the USSR, or the FBI.  She works for TPC (if you're old like me and remember that reference).

???? Google was no help! Tax Policy Center? 

[CaliCheeseSucks]

9 hours ago, qtpye said:

I am getting bad Battle Star Galactica flashbacks where the creator assured us there was a plan and then many years later admitted that it was a total lie.

I am one of the few people who are actually happy that Philip is having financial trouble and is no just super businessman extraordinaire. Business is really hard. You could have a great product or service that is not scalable, or you expand too quickly, or market tastes change on a dime. or you alienate your core customer base, etc...the list can go on forever.

The truth is Capitalism was never easy and yes, the odds are stacked against the little guy who does not have a ton of money or connections. I hate it on TV when someone on tv has one experience in a business and is shown being amazingly successful in about a year.

Phillip expanded in boom times and now the market has changed. Instead of primo customized packages, more people are opting for lower-end budget deals for their vacations.  If Phillip starts offering lower budget deals, he will not be able to cover the costs of business the way it is now. He will probably have to let people go and downsize to a smaller operation. This would have been excellent stuff to handle last season instead of watching wheat grow.

I agree with you that the "hard side of capitalism" angle could have been interesting one to explore; as Phillip is one of the characters whose journey I've found most compelling, it would have surely made for an engaging study.

But then we wouldn't have had that long, nowhere arc with Tuan last season - that was last season, right? - and this season's Elizabeth Jennings' Gratuitous Kill Of The Week (among other things) eating up airtime. Gotta work in the wigs and cool music cues ahead of logical plotting. 

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, jjj said:

???? Google was no help! Tax Policy Center? 

Back in the late 60s, James Coburn did a set of three spy movie spoofs.  The first was called The President's Analyst, of which he was the title character.  He got mixed up in a continuing battle between the CIA and the KGB, which was organized by an uber-spy agency known as TPC.  At the end of the movie, TPC was revealed as....The Phone Company (spying on everyone).

[jjj]

46 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Back in the late 60s, James Coburn did a set of three spy movie spoofs.  The first was called The President's Analyst, of which he was the title character.  He got mixed up in a continuing battle between the CIA and the KGB, which was organized by an uber-spy agency known as TPC.  At the end of the movie, TPC was revealed as....The Phone Company (spying on everyone).

Oh, now I think she works for KAOS!      Good historical reference! 

[Ellaria]

16 hours ago, zibnchy said:

I honestly thought the whole conversation about tuition with the guy from the school was just either 1.) exposition in case we didn't already get the message that the travel agency is having $$ problems or 2.) a way to bring Henry home so he can play some part in the ending narrative.

 

Actually, I think that it is both of these things. Henry is a reflection of Philip's connection to the American way of life and capitalism. Paige's successes and failures as a spy are a reflection of Elizabeth and her dedication to a dying cause. 

Phil and Liz have been a union (definitely a less than perfect one) for five seasons and, despite differences, they usually had the same goals. Now, they appear to be are on opposite sides of everything: interactions with their children, politics, even the concept of Pizza Hut in Moscow. Their marriage is at the heart of this show and it remains to be seen if it will survive intact at the end. (I doubt it.) They are lying to themselves and to others and moving further into their own corners. This is what will drive the end of the show.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[SunnyBeBe]

17 hours ago, jjj said:

I guess I am in a very tiny minority (of one?) that did not think Renee was really asking to be an FBI agent, but darn if I know what that was really about.  I mean, have we even seen female FBI agents, so she would have seen very few, and if she has been around newer agents, she would have seen they were at that point largely male and in their twenties, coming from law degrees and the military.  So she had to know it was ludicrous.  And she also had to know that there are many, many staff jobs at the FBI, so if she wanted to work around Stan, she could ask about transferring her skills to one of the many staff opportunities available in the organization.  

So, I wondered what that was really about.  One of the reviews suggested it was like a Jennings desperation move, trying something outlandish when a mission was not going the right way.  But three years is a very long game to get to such a ridiculous request.  Was she using that to try to get Stan to tell her more about what he is working on, so she could "feel closer" to him?  I am sure she works for someone, but I could as easily see her as an FBI plant as a KGB plant.  Or East Germany might be running a scheme!    

Doe Stan deserve true love?  I think he does.  But it does not look like he will have it by the end of the series, because there is no candidate nearby to step into the spotlight for him.  

Good points.  After I had my laugh at Renee's comment, I then wondered if MAYBE, she was hinting to Stan that she wanted to do some undercover work.  So, that he might have her go do something small, but, secret....you know, so her work is really important and not so boring.  She wants more excitement and to REALLY make a difference in this country.  lol And since, she's too old to be a real agent, maybe, they could figure out some kind of an assignment for her off the books.  I know it sound crazy, but, that's all I got. lol

It dawned on me just how detached E seems from Henry now.  She doesn't make his hockey game with P.  Then, he calls and she just acts like she's not there.  There aren't even any words like where's mom, tell mom hello, tell Henry I love him, etc.   Odd to me.  I guess she's got her hands full of other stuff.  

[jjj]

Elizabeth carrying the top secret Russian stew in her bag reminded me of William getting chased by the FBI while carrying the vial of disease, then breaking it in his hand when he was cornered.  I'm sure Elizabeth was ready to toss the stew if captured on the way home.  "Don't come any closer, and you'd better get the biocontainment room ready for me."  

[Ina123]

12 hours ago, Dev F said:

Come to think of it, that's why losing Jeremy's business was so significant. Phil specifically asks him, "Do we have you guys all set up for this year?" not ". . . for next summer?" or ". . . for next spring?" That means that his family were among the relatively rare fall or winter travelers, and Phil was counting on their money coming in sometime in the next three months. Missing a big winter sale while waiting for summer sales to come due could potentially fuck the company over very badly.

This got me wondering. Maybe the client had a company that promoted cruises...like say, to winners of contests. Maybe Phillip wasn't just losing "a" family cruise. Maybe this was a very big client that meant multiple cruises. I don't remember the conversation. Family might have been specifically mentioned. Anybody know? Obviously, Phillip is seeing a decline in business, but I just don't see him spiraling downward over losing a client with one family cruise a year.

But, I guess, the purpose really was to emphasize the decline in business in general.

[jjj]

8 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

This got me wondering. Maybe the client had a company that promoted cruises...like say, to winners of contests. Maybe Phillip wasn't just losing "a" family cruise. Maybe this was a very big client that meant multiple cruises. I don't remember the conversation. Family might have been specifically mentioned. Anybody know? Obviously, Phillip is seeing a decline in business, but I just don't see him spiraling downward over losing a client with one family cruise a year.

But, I guess, the purpose really was to emphasize the decline in business in general.

Yes, it was a family vacation, with the husband saying they had found a budget travel agent.  And Philip sent his regards to the wife. And when Philip went back to the office, the conversation was about the husband wanting to know what Philip thought of the suggestions he was getting from other office staff. I just think that, plus the tuition call, was about showing us the travel agency was in a precarious situation.  

Edited April 13, 2018 by jjj

[Ina123]

3 minutes ago, jjj said:

Yes, it was a family vacation, with the husband saying they had found a budget travel agent.  And Philip sent his regards to the wife. And when Philip went back to the office, the conversation was about the husband wanting to know what Philip thought of the suggestions he was getting from other office staff. I just think that, plus the tuition call, was about showing us the travel agency was in a precarious situation.  

Agreed. Now that I know it was a family cruise.

[jjj]

8 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I thought Elizabeth made a lot of sense when she told Paige that you can't live you life being afraid, because no one would ever do anything if you did.

My memory is all kinds of horrible, but didn't Elizabeth go back to the USSR to see her mom before she died, did she go alone?  Or was that something that I just dreamed up?

Yes, and she took Paige.  They went by way of Germany, and Elizabeth was telling Paige how to watch for people following her on the streets. (Was that East Berlin?) 

Edited April 13, 2018 by jjj

[Dev F]

11 minutes ago, jjj said:

Yes, and she took Paige.  They went by way of Germany, and Elizabeth was telling Paige how to watch for people following her on the streets. (Was that East Berlin?) 

West Berlin. They never got clearance to go behind the Iron Curtain, and instead the Centre spirited Liz's mother into West Germany to meet them.