S19.E17: Send in the Clowns 2018.03.21

[dttruman]

A student disappears during a school trip to New York City, the cops race to find a mysterious masked man. Meanwhile Fin and Stone both get visits from family. (This was taken off the info button provided by my cable)

[ForeverAlone]

Between SVU and Criminal Minds tonight, it appears that it is the night of the dueling clowns. I am always amused when these two shows have similar themes the same week or within a couple weeks of each other.

[wknt3]

2 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

Between SVU and Criminal Minds tonight, it appears that it is the night of the dueling clowns. I am always amused when these two shows have similar themes the same week or within a couple weeks of each other.

It seems for the past couple seasons they have both been consistently exploring the same theme - boy this show used to be so good...

[Xeliou66]

I’m looking forward to tonight’s episode, the plot sounds interesting, I’m glad to see Fin’s son again and I’m looking forward to seeing Stone’s situation as well. I just hope they don’t make the episode all about Benson instead, they have a tendency to say episodes will focus on others and then make it all about St Olivia. 

[Fiero425]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m looking forward to tonight’s episode, the plot sounds interesting, I’m glad to see Fin’s son again and I’m looking forward to seeing Stone’s situation as well. I just hope they don’t make the episode all about Benson instead, they have a tendency to say episodes will focus on others and then make it all about St Olivia. 

SO far so good! Wow, Sasso put back on the weight; poor guy! I was a huge fan back when on "Madd TV!" Vinnie's a hottie! Too bad he was too stupid to leave the teenager alone! Why would he take that girl back to his apartment? ;-)

Spoiler

Nothing new; idiot kid runs off with her teacher! I was so hoping it would be something more original than that! This moron not only runs off with her, he implicates someone else! He should fry TWICE! Well at least it ended strange with incest involved! Stone mention his sister being a patient upstate!

;-(

Edited March 22, 2018 by Fiero425

[MrsRafaelBarba]

:raises hand:

 

Someone help me with this, Ben Stone has two kids?

Didn't watch much of his tenure on the membership.

 

Tonight was ripped from the headlines, with incest thrown in.

 

Was that Will Sasso?

[Fiero425]

26 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

:raises hand:

Someone help me with this, Ben Stone has two kids?

Didn't watch much of his tenure on the membership.

Tonight was ripped from the headlines, with incest thrown in.

Was that Will Sasso?

Yep, Will Sasso blowing up! We knew Stone had more than one kid, but thought the writers had dropped her! It was nice that they brought her up to clear the air and stay consistent! ;-)

Edited March 22, 2018 by Fiero425

[dttruman]

24 minutes ago, Fiero425 said:

SO far so good! Wow, Sasso put back on the weight; poor guy! I was a huge fan back when on "Madd TV!" Vinnie's a hottie! Too bad he was too stupid to leave the teenager alone! Why would he take that girl back to his apartment?

I always liked his comedic roles, i.e. Anger Management and 2 1/2 MEN, but I digress. IMO, I think this is their best episode except for the ending. A good plot that wasn't anything outrageous with a nice little twist at the end of the investigation. Everything was believable and it was about 3/4 of the way through, that I knew what was the basis for "grabbed from the headlines".

The only thing I didn't like was Benson trying to explain to Stone the weird relationship between James and Haley. It would have been more believable if Dr Huang had explained it to them. This is the perfect type of situation for keeping BD Wong's character around.

[CleoCaesar]

So after all of that, it just turned out to be the creepy piano teacher? That was my first guess and I wrote it off as too boring.

I guess throwing in the inadvertent incest was a Hail Mary to make the episode interesting or something.

[Maximum Taco]

Yawn. 

If you couldn't see this one coming from a mile away you were just blind. 

The incest angle was something I guess, but it hardly had an impact on the story, except to squick everyone out at the end, and let Olivia Benson, PhD in Special Victims Studies do something other then force Stone to go to trial on a case he was going to either horribly lose, or send an innocent (albeit creepy) man to jail. 

[Fiero425]

5 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

So after all of that, it just turned out to be the creepy piano teacher? That was my first guess and I wrote it off as too boring.

I guess throwing in the inadvertent incest was a Hail Mary to make the episode interesting or something.

I fault Benson for pushing to get Vinnie tried when they had little to nothing tying him to that girl! Like he would leave a bloody boas in his bathroom and her purse in a dumpster downstairs so anyone could find it! There's got to be a way to punish that girl setting him up like that! ;-(

11 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I always liked his comedic roles, i.e. Anger Management and 2 1/2 MEN, but I digress. IMO, I think this is their best episode except for the ending. A good plot that wasn't anything outrageous with a nice little twist at the end of the investigation. Everything was believable and it was about 3/4 of the way through, that I knew what was the basis for "grabbed from the headlines".

The only thing I didn't like was Benson trying to explain to Stone the weird relationship between James and Haley. It would have been more believable if Dr Huang had explained it to them. This is the perfect type of situation for keeping BD Wong's character around.

They almost made it to the end, but fell back into the expected; even the incest thing has been overdone on the show! ;-(

[dttruman]

21 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

So after all of that, it just turned out to be the creepy piano teacher? That was my first guess and I wrote it off as too boring.

I guess throwing in the inadvertent incest was a Hail Mary to make the episode interesting or something.

If this would have been something like one of their old episodes, the father would have become so enraged, grabbed the gun of some not-so-bright cop, shoot James and then probably would have been shot  by Benson. Who would then be talking about how guilty she felt for shooting him.

Edited March 22, 2018 by dttruman

[balmz]

epiosde was ok, i liked the more focus on everyone but Olivia, i'll be honest i thought it was going to be the  non bio father who killed his daughter, i kept getting vibes of that from him,

 

the random incest was weird but what was weirder to me was that the guy plead guilty to it, like he didn't  willingly commit it 

 

wonder if it will turn out peter killed his sister like barba did and we find out  later he did it

[Fiero425]

1 minute ago, dttruman said:

If this would have been something like one of their old episodes, the father would have become so enraged, grabbed the gun of some not-so-bright cop, shoot James and then probably would have been shot himself by Benson. Who would then be talking about how the guilty for shooting him.

Sasso's so big, I expected him to grab a gun, but I think the detectives put them in their desk after a couple shootings in the squad in the past! ;-)

[dttruman]

29 minutes ago, Fiero425 said:

I fault Benson for pushing to get Vinnie tried when they had little to nothing tying him to that girl! Like he would leave a bloody boas in his bathroom and her purse in a dumpster downstairs so anyone could find it! There's got to be a way to punish that girl setting him up like that! ;

It looked like they set Vinnie up pretty good, but I do agree they took it to trial too soon. It should have been one of those Perry Mason type, where the DA presents enough to bind the defendant over for trial and Vinnie's lawyer presents a defense.

With all that went on for the trial, does Vinnie have enough to sue the city for prosecutorial misconduct?

Edited March 22, 2018 by dttruman

[wknt3]

The Good:
The COTW. The biggest improvement this season has been in giving us a variety of cases and competently executing them. Everybody did their job and had a part in solving it and we even got a sense of the NYPD being bigger than just 4 detectives! Still would have been better having recurring characters, but at least we got to see TARU, CSU, etc.
It was nice that they had multiple family scenes and a case focused on family issues and never went to the Benoah well. I didn't think we would ever see that again!
The guest cast was great as usual. At least until the end, but I think it was case of OTT writing rather than OTT acting.
They dialed back the BenStone shipping by a lot.

The Bad:
There really wasn't anything new or different here other than the big twist at the end, which was more icky than shocking.
Why are we still doing the Benson consults with the DA over dinner/drinks scene? It's really uninteresting and adds nothing.
They kind of dropped the ball not mentioning any sort of followup for framing creepy clown butcher guy.
 

Overall this was competently done, but a bit bland. A filler episode. It didn't commit any of the sins that have bugged me so much, but nothing really excited me. It felt a lot like a Season 6-8 episode being somewhat grounded but having the attempt at a shocking twist after arresting the wrong perp and having everyone involved being crazy but it didn't have the great ensemble cast to pull it off. However it was competent and didn't focus exclusively on Benson so that's a huge plus. I just hope that we aren't going to see any more scenes with Stone and his sister. Criminal Intent already did it and it wasn't that interesting even with Vincent D'Onofiro and Rita Moreno. Let's have a moratorium on family drama and spend the time on the cases.

Edited March 24, 2018 by wknt3

[Fiero425]

25 minutes ago, dttruman said:

It looked like they set Vinnie up pretty good, but I do agree they took it to trial too soon. It should have been one of those Perry Mason type, where the DA presents enough to bind the defendant over for trial and Vinnie's lawyer presents a defense.

The ADA does this all the time; unwilling to press it and Benson or others pull some kind of heartstring move to sucker him into going to trial; hence the egg on all their faces so many times! Stone was not going to do this, but after seeing the girl on the news; showing her to be a prodigy, he went against common sense! What is wrong with these people? It costs a lot of money to go thru all this and they just blow it like "it's no big deal!" It was the same thing with "Dissonant Voices;" prosecuted some poor guy with little to nothing! Ruined Jackie's name and career and all they can do is say "I'm sorry!" FK you! It ain't enough! ;-(

Edited March 22, 2018 by Fiero425

[dttruman]

3 minutes ago, Fiero425 said:

The ADA does this all the time; unwilling to press it and Benson or others push some kind of heartstring move to sucker him into going to trial; hence the egg on all their faces so many times! Stone was not going to do this, but after seeing the girl on the news; showing her to be a prodigy, he went against common sense! What is wrong with these people? It costs a lot of money to go thru all this and they just blow it like "it's no big deal!" It was the same thing with "Dissonant Voices;" prosecuted some poor guy with little to nothing! Ruined Jackie's name and career and all they can do is say "I'm sorry!" FK you! It ain't enough!

Would you say they have been using that gimmick too much where the perp is put on trial and they're pretty sure he (or she) is guilty, but during the trial there is a major twist in the case and someone is the guilty party?

[Fiero425]

2 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Would you say they have been using that gimmick too much where the perp is put on trial and they're pretty sure he (or she) is guilty, but during the trial there is a major twist in the case and someone is the guilty party?

Often, they're ready to put the guy to death only to find they're prosecuting the wrong person! Yep, it's so overdone to keep doing this! I'd rather the guilty person get off than to see this BS again and again with innocent people being dragged thru the mud! Vinnie's no saint, but far from kidnapper and/or murderer! Idiotic! ;-(

[Maximum Taco]

20 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Would you say they have been using that gimmick too much where the perp is put on trial and they're pretty sure he (or she) is guilty, but during the trial there is a major twist in the case and someone is the guilty party?

This one was even worse, because not only could they not prove that he was the murderer, they couldn't even prove that she was murdered. 

All SVU is doing is making me terrified of the law enforcement system. 

[SuzieQ]

I must be the only one who thought this episode sucked.  The case was boring and predictable, right up to the "twist" that was nauseating.  UGH!  Just awful!

[QueenMab]

Baby girl prodigy's mother is the dipshit mom from a couple of seasons ago whose Iranian husband "kidnapped" their son so she would get it together. Finn's grandbaby is adorable. That's all I got.

[ForeverAlone]

I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. It felt like a good, old school episode. We don't often get any sort of murders these days, and even though Hayley turned out to not be dead, at least it was a nice change of pace. I especially liked that Hayley was not a sympathetic victim, because she admitted to planning to frame Drago for her disappearance. And she certainly was all into the sex, even if she sounded like a typical teenager who thinks they are more mature than they actually are. And her super creepy reaction AFTER she found out that she was screwing her father reminded me of that season 13 episode (and they even used the "genetic sexual attraction" label from the same episode- good to see that Olivia paid attention to Dr. Huang's teachings). 

James was creepy, at least in how he couldn't keep it in his pants until Hayley was of legal age. I started to suspect that something was up with him when he didn't want to testify. But I honestly thought he had murdered her out of jealousy, because she ran off with Drago. Then of course we got the indication of a sexual relationship. So I wasn't SHOCKED when we found them alive and in bed together.

And the final twist that James was screwing his own daughter Hayley was a classic, old school SVU twist. Wow, this is like the good Neal Baer years. I didn't see that twist coming until it was upon us. 

I have to say that I smiled when Olivia apologized to Peter for pushing him to take a murder case to trial, even though there was no body, so the case was entirely circumstantial. Combine that with Peter's snarky question if she was always this pushy (and her reply that he just needs to wait to get to know her), and it's ALMOST like this show was displaying some self awareness about how often Olivia badgers the ADA to take weak cases to trial. Now if she would just stop doing it, it would be great. 

Bonus points for finally showing Fin's grandson (over a year after he was born) and referencing Ben Stone's long lost daughter from the mothership. This episode was probably my favorite one of the season so far. And bonus for not overdoing Olivia, since she actually let her detectives do their jobs and detect while she ran point from back at the station. If only the show could continue to show this better consistency. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[Xeliou66]

I thought this episode was one of the strongest of the season.

The case had a lot of investigation, it wasn’t a he said/she said rape case, we got a nice use of Fin, Carisi and Rollins, Benson didn’t dominate the episode, the case wasn’t predictable although I did suspect involvement from the teacher early on, it was a nice twist having no victims and 2 perps conspiring to frame someone else. 

There was no preachy agenda being pushed in this episode, nor did Benson get on a pulpit. No Noah either which was nice.

I was glad to see the issue about Stone’s sister resolved, I said earlier that Ben Stone mentioned a daughter to Adam Schiff on a mothership episode and then Peter saying to McCoy that he was the only one of Ben’s family left was curious and I wondered what happened to the daughter Ben mentioned, so I was glad that was cleared up. 

Great to see Ken and Alejandro again plus meet Fin’s grandson, they’ve focused on Benson’s personal life so much it was nice to see Fin’s family for a minute and unlike Benson’s personal crap it didn’t interfere with the case, I’ve always liked Ken and I was glad to see Alejandro again since the last we saw of him he was in a coma, we knew he survived but it was good to see him in person and finally find out Fin is a grandfather. 

They’ve dialed down the Benson-Stone relationship which is good, Benson is finally starting to be respectful with him and I liked Stone’s line about Benson always being that pushy. 

Speaking of the case, Vinny was framed excellently, and I wondered if they did research on him before the plot, because he was a perfect pasty with his contaminated meat deliveries and his violent history, the blood evidence and the video was damning enough to take the case to trial IMO, they’ve won cases without a body before, but if they hadn’t done research they couldn’t have gotten a better patsy, if James hadn’t gotten cold feet about testifying they might’ve gotten away with it for a while.

Did anyone else think the defense attorney was just atrocious? I honestly wondered if it was going to come out he was deliberately tanking the case, but he was just incompetent, never objecting or asking questions. 

The Jack McCoy mention was awesome!

I liked this episode a lot, one of season 19’s best.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Someone help me with this, Ben Stone has two kids?

Actually, the only child Ben Stone had ever mentioned on the Mothership was a daughter. Peter - while played by a good actor - is a retcon.

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Actually, the only child Ben Stone had ever mentioned on the Mothership was a daughter. Peter - while played by a good actor - is a retcon.

Peter isn’t a retcon, Stone never mentioned just having one child, he mentioned being a father in several episodes and he mentioned a daughter spefically in one, but there is nothing that said he didn’t have a son, actually on Stone’s desk there is a picture of him holding a baby which in real life was Moriarty’s son so in universe we now know it’s Peter, so Peter isn’t a retcon or a continuity error. I thought there was going to be a continuity error with his daughter but that was cleared up tonight. 

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Peter isn’t a retcon, Stone never mentioned just having one child, he mentioned being a father in several episodes and he mentioned a daughter spefically in one, but there is nothing that said he didn’t have a son, actually on Stone’s desk there is a picture of him holding a baby which in real life was Moriarty’s son so in universe we now know it’s Peter, so Peter isn’t a retcon or a continuity error. I thought there was going to be a continuity error with his daughter but that was cleared up tonight. 

Callbacks are always nice at such a late date.

[TV Diva Queen]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought this episode was one of the strongest of the season.

The case had a lot of investigation, it wasn’t a he said/she said rape case, we got a nice use of Fin, Carisi and Rollins, Benson didn’t dominate the episode, the case wasn’t predictable although I did suspect involvement from the teacher early on, it was a nice twist having no victims and 2 perps conspiring to frame someone else. 

There was no preachy agenda being pushed in this episode, nor did Benson get on a pulpit. No Noah either which was nice.

I was glad to see the issue about Stone’s sister resolved, I said earlier that Ben Stone mentioned a daughter to Adam Schiff on a mothership episode and then Peter saying to McCoy that he was the only one of Ben’s family left was curious and I wondered what happened to the daughter Ben mentioned, so I was glad that was cleared up. 

Great to see Ken and Alejandro again plus meet Fin’s grandson, they’ve focused on Benson’s personal life so much it was nice to see Fin’s family for a minute and unlike Benson’s personal crap it didn’t interfere with the case, I’ve always liked Ken and I was glad to see Alejandro again since the last we saw of him he was in a coma, we knew he survived but it was good to see him in person and finally find out Fin is a grandfather. 

They’ve dialed down the Benson-Stone relationship which is good, Benson is finally starting to be respectful with him and I liked Stone’s line about Benson always being that pushy. 

Speaking of the case, Vinny was framed excellently, and I wondered if they did research on him before the plot, because he was a perfect pasty with his contaminated meat deliveries and his violent history, the blood evidence and the video was damning enough to take the case to trial IMO, they’ve won cases without a body before, but if they hadn’t done research they couldn’t have gotten a better patsy, if James hadn’t gotten cold feet about testifying they might’ve gotten away with it for a while.

Did anyone else think the defense attorney was just atrocious? I honestly wondered if it was going to come out he was deliberately tanking the case, but he was just incompetent, never objecting or asking questions. 

The Jack McCoy mention was awesome!

I liked this episode a lot, one of season 19’s best.

Yes it was!  I watch with my 17yo daughter who has somewhat taken on my L&O obsession, (although she'll NEVER admit it) 

When they said "McCoy", she looked over to me with an eye roll, while I clapped like a little girl.  

[sockii]

Not perfect, but fun. I'm always happy when there's a break from the white-woman-rape-cases...though having two missing teen girl cases two weeks in a row? (Though actually I'll happily erase last week's episode from my memory if not actual existence as I hated it so much.) Anyway, things I liked:

Ken! Alejandro! Finally seeing Fin's grandson and finding out his name! I do wish that we'd gotten more of all of them (and I was expecting more, with the hint that they haven't actually spent a lot of time together.) But oh well. I knew we were getting Ken but that they brought back the actor who played Alejandro after so long, even briefly, made this Fin fan here absolutely delighted.

Benson actually letting her detectives take the lead and staying in the precinct, like an actual CO. It's so rare and I'm delighted every time it happens.

A nice twisty/crazy/old-school cracky SVU plot that definitely kept us guessing (and awake) in this house. I really thought it was going to be something with the father, how they kept mentioning him being in sanitation. Was not ready for the surprise GSA twist even if it seemed a bit...much?

More Peter info and just, well, give me more Peter. I'm sorry, I'm shallow, but damn Philip Winchster is fine and I will happily take every moment he is on my tv screen. And I'm not sure what it is, but I've actually found Benson a lot more tolerable since Stone showed up. I even am surprised and shocked at myself for sort of shipping them. I don't know what's wrong with me, but they do seem to have an interesting and unexpected onscreen chemistry.

Also, have to say the cinematography seemed a step up from usual, especially in the interrogation scenes.

All in all, a decent episode I will not mind rewatching at all.

Edited March 22, 2018 by sockii
typo

[Xantar]

If Haley had turned out to be really dead, I was going to post about how little sympathy I had for the victim because she was basically the dumbest teenager in New York. Yes, let's go out dancing at a club, hook up with a guy in a creepy clown mask, and then get into his car without telling anyone.

But in a refreshing twist, it turns out that nearly everybody was an idiot. The daughter for falling in love with her piano teacher and thinking it was realistic to run off with him; the mom for having an affair and never telling anybody that Haley was having piano lessons with her own father; the piano teacher for being an obsessed statutory rapist; and Vinny for just being a creep. Only the non-biological father came out of this looking any good.

I wish Benson hadn't explained genetic sexual attraction as something that happens between fathers and daughters. It's actually between any close relatives who aren't raised together (it also happens with siblings who are separated at birth and then reunited as adults).

I've been a fan of Philip Winchester ever since The Player, so I'm glad to see he's getting work. However, I hope his profile rises enough that he finds another gig because he's way too good for this show.

[Gigi43]

The ending with the incest was a bit much and felt like they were just going for shock value. At least they didn't know at first. What was the mother thinking letting her daughter be a student of her secret affair. The teacher really seemed to be surprised, which, when she was pregnant back then he didn't question it at all? He's dumb, but better than knowingly committing incest.

 

The episode was decent until the end. We got to see every one and I love that Ken and that adorable baby were part of a happy scene, not family drama. 

 

Stone isn't new to being in law, SVU yes, but the way he was shocked and needed Benson to explain it to him like he was a complete newbie. I wonder if seeing comments online about Ben having a daughter they decided to add her?

 

I missed some of what the teacher was convicted of. Did anything happen in regards to framing Vinny? Vinny was a creep, and even Haley was old enough to put her blood in his car etc, was there mention of any charges against him? I can almost see the reasoning that maybe he wouldn't go to jail because there was no body (which should have been a bigger deal putting him on trial) but still, he was set up. That shouldn't be glossed over. Can he sue?

 

When Will Sasso's character mentioned the daughter would sometimes say he's "just a sanitation worker", my father was all "does that happen in the real world today or just tv? If either of you (my brother and I) put my job down you damn sure wouldn't have a trip or anything else paid for." The ending when she said she knew she was better made me (and my father) feel bad for Will Sasso's character more than anyone.

[Ms Blue Jay]

What in the holy &$%@ was this episode?!  Did it really need that disgusting twist at the end?  Don't make me retch!

Edited March 22, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bexx88]

I was hoping they’d ease up on Peter Stone, but it seems we’re doomed to him as co-lead. I keep hoping that somewhere in all the screen time and backstory they’re throwing out in a desperate attempt to get the audience to love him, something interesting will come up, but it’s just rolls and rolls of incessant beige. Still, if they wanted an actor so bad that Mariska looks better in scenes by comparison, then job done.

[CleoCaesar]

21 minutes ago, Bexx88 said:

Still, if they wanted an actor so bad that Mariska looks better in scenes by comparison, then job done.

I'm half convinced the actor is actually a very lifelike robot.

The current pantheon of the worst actors on this show:

1. Dean Winters

2. The guy who plays Stone

3. Mariska

Seriously, none of these people can even sort of act.

[Xeliou66]

I agree with those who’ve said Benson is somewhat more tolerable now, last night was the least she irritated me all season. The show is much better without Barba, I never thought I would say that but it’s true, Barba became a pathetic puppet who couldn’t do anything without Liv’s approval, Stone is a much better character and it’s nice to see an ADA with a professional relationship with the squad and I prefer Stone and Benson’s relationship to the extremely weird Barson relationship, I don’t want Stone and Benson to become too close but I feel like they have a decent relationship, although it progressed to friendly too fast after Benson treated him like shit when she first met him, but so far Stone is good and it’s nice to not have the unprofessional Benson/Barba relationship. 

I would’ve liked a scene where they dropped the charges against Vinny and explained if charges were being filed against James or even Haley for framing Vinny, I would think charges would be filed.

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, CleoCaesar said:

I'm half convinced the actor is actually a very lifelike robot.

The current pantheon of the worst actors on this show:

1. Dean Winters

2. The guy who plays Stone

3. Mariska

Seriously, none of these people can even sort of act.

Nah, Chester Lake was the worst.

[Iguessnot]

Anyone else think the mother was involved? When she gave the offhand comment about the dad liking the daughter more than her, I thought maybe she set up the murder. 

Since Mariska's in control, why does she think her perils of Pauline demeanor when dealing with families is good tv? She's been at this job a long time and now she's a lieutenant. Stop Quivering!!!! 

Again she's tells the ADA what to do.

Why was the suspect giving a tv interview behind bars?

I was actually glad the girl was alive, but she needed to be prosecuted pronto. 

When the twist was revealed, I had to laugh because the episode was really going into Benny Hill territory. The father, who I remember from the X-files, couldn't shake the comedy routine and the ending scene seemed like farce.

Some people felt the Benson/Stone interaction was toned down, but her parting line inviting him to talk signals nothing but trouble. He doesn't need her shoulder to cry on and is so inappropriate.

[ChristiKRN]

I would have to say this was the best episode SVU has had in the past (almost) 2 seasons.   There was no sermonizing; actual investigative work was happening; plot twists occurred!  It was nice to see Ken and Fin's grandson - finally!  The amount of screen time they gave them during this episode was just the right amount of focus that there should be on personal lives in any given episode .   

I'm a little alarmed by the influence that Benson is having on Stone.  She's doing it more subtly than how she handled Barba, but it seems that he is relying on her a little too much for advice, etc.  I preferred the firm Stone we saw in his 1st post-Barba  episode. 

 

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

Did anyone else think the defense attorney was just atrocious? I honestly wondered if it was going to come out he was deliberately tanking the case, but he was just incompetent, never objecting or asking questions. 

 

When the witness stated that she recognized the defendant by his eyes only , I waited for the attorney to drive a 18-wheeler  through the holes in that statement, but did nothing.  If he got convicted, he would easily have gotten a retrial for having an incompetent defense. 

How messed up was that girl to be more relieved that the man she thought was her father wasn't than  sickened to learn she was having sex with her biological father. Hope they threw the book at her for all the trauma she caused.  

[txhorns79]

Is it wrong that I laughed hysterically at the dramatic incest twist?  They must have been running short because that just came from nowhere for no real reason.  I figured it wasn't going to be the clown that did anything, but I honestly thought it was going to be the garbage man father only because his acting was so over the top.  

And seriously Stone, I hope you at least take away from all this that Liv's advice is terrible and you should never file charges based on anything she says.  

[LizDC]

So, the trial for the girl’s “murder” took place less than a month after she disappeared? Nice to see that NYC has so little crime that  cases can immediately go to trial.

I realize that all the L&O’s have court systems that are way speedier than reality but that was ridiculous. 

As was Olivia, who apparently doesn’t have the level of administrative duties and paperwork that Cragen and Van Buren had that kept them confined to their offices.

[CelticBlackCat]

When no body was ever found before trial, I had a sneaking suspicion that Missing Teen Girl (sorry, forgot her name) was alive, and I was hoping for the best.  I thought Piano Teacher would have her tied up somewhere, and when the former partner (who was a hoot, I thought) gave them the Oyster Bay location info, I figured that was where she was stashed.  But as the team charged toward the bedroom door, I thought, I'll bet the Teen Girl and Piano Teacher are in there having a tryst!  I was excited I got that right!!

I thought Vinny was a little creepy, but I felt more sorry for him for having been framed.

That twist at the end was a surprise.  It goes to show how every father should have a DNA test done (on the sly, of course <wink>) when they "father" a child.  I can't believe the mother would let her daughter get lessons from the piano teacher.  She's probably the most twisted of them all.  (Except for the huge age difference teen/statutory rapey relationship.)

I hope Stone learns from this case and stops listening to Liv when she wants to get her way.  And, for Pete's sake (pun intended), don't use her as a shoulder to cry on "if he ever needs to talk."

5 hours ago, ChristiKRN said:

I would have to say this was the best episode SVU has had in the past (almost) 2 seasons.   There was no sermonizing; actual investigative work was happening; plot twists occurred!  It was nice to see Ken and Fin's grandson - finally!  The amount of screen time they gave them during this episode was just the right amount of focus that there should be on personal lives in any given episode .   

I'm a little alarmed by the influence that Benson is having on Stone.  She's doing it more subtly than how she handled Barba, but it seems that he is relying on her a little too much for advice, etc.  I preferred the firm Stone we saw in his 1st post-Barba  episode. 

 

When the witness stated that she recognized the defendant by his eyes only , I waited for the attorney to drive a 18-wheeler  through the holes in that statement, but did nothing.  If he got convicted, he would easily have gotten a retrial for having an incompetent defense. 

How messed up was that girl to be more relieved that the man she thought was her father wasn't than  sickened to learn she was having sex with her biological father. Hope they threw the book at her for all the trauma she caused.  

My thoughts too.  She really made me hate her when she was embarrassed that her dad (the one who raised her and paid for her piano lessons) was in sanitation.

[Gbb]

On 3/21/2018 at 9:05 PM, MrsRafaelBarba said:

 

Tonight was ripped from the headlines, with incest thrown in.

 

What was the real-life story? I didn’t pick up on it.

 

On 3/22/2018 at 12:01 AM, ForeverAlone said:

Bonus points for finally showing Fin's grandson (over a year after he was born) 

Loved seeing Fin all gooey over his grand baby. Guess “Pop Pop” changed his mind about making him call him “Fin” :)

[EtheltoTillie]

4 hours ago, LizDC said:

So, the trial for the girl’s “murder” took place less than a month after she disappeared? Nice to see that NYC has so little crime that  cases can immediately go to trial.

I realize that all the L&O’s have court systems that are way speedier than reality but that was ridiculous. 

This always bothers me, but it was particularly silly here. How could he have stashed the girl in that house for so long without the house owner's eventually needing the house?  And the girl was just staying for weeks alone out on Long Island while piano teacher went back to Beaver Falls to cover up his involvement?  

[MaggieG]

On 3/22/2018 at 1:01 AM, ForeverAlone said:

I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. It felt like a good, old school episode. We don't often get any sort of murders these days, and even though Hayley turned out to not be dead, at least it was a nice change of pace. I especially liked that Hayley was not a sympathetic victim, because she admitted to planning to frame Drago for her disappearance. And she certainly was all into the sex, even if she sounded like a typical teenager who thinks they are more mature than they actually are. And her super creepy reaction AFTER she found out that she was screwing her father reminded me of that season 13 episode (and they even used the "genetic sexual attraction" label from the same episode- good to see that Olivia paid attention to Dr. Huang's teachings). 

 

 

That was definitely creepy. 

15 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

When no body was ever found before trial, I had a sneaking suspicion that Missing Teen Girl (sorry, forgot her name) was alive, and I was hoping for the best.  I thought Piano Teacher would have her tied up somewhere, and when the former partner (who was a hoot, I thought) gave them the Oyster Bay location info, I figured that was where she was stashed.  But as the team charged toward the bedroom door, I thought, I'll bet the Teen Girl and Piano Teacher are in there having a tryst!  I was excited I got that right!!

I thought Vinny was a little creepy, but I felt more sorry for him for having been framed.

That twist at the end was a surprise.  It goes to show how every father should have a DNA test done (on the sly, of course <wink>) when they "father" a child.  I can't believe the mother would let her daughter get lessons from the piano teacher.  She's probably the most twisted of them all.  (Except for the huge age difference teen/statutory rapey relationship.)

I hope Stone learns from this case and stops listening to Liv when she wants to get her way.  And, for Pete's sake (pun intended), don't use her as a shoulder to cry on "if he ever needs to talk."

My thoughts too.  She really made me hate her when she was embarrassed that her dad (the one who raised her and paid for her piano lessons) was in sanitation.

He was funny. "I'm meeting with Lin-Manuel." He had no time for these SVU cops.

I felt so bad for the dad. He was the best out of all of them. He truly loved his daughter and would do anything to find her. And the stupid brat didn't give a crap.

Edited March 23, 2018 by MaggieG

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I can't believe the mother would let her daughter get lessons from the piano teacher.  She's probably the most twisted of them all.

Other than having kept the daughter's paternity a secret, I didn't see a problem. The mother probably never imagined in her wildest dreams that the guy would sleep with the girl (who was literally young enough to be his daughter), and thought it would be a non-suspicious way of letting them get to know one another. Now she'll have to live with the guilt of having destroyed three lives due to her secret which ended up coming out in the worst possible way.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Quote

I can't believe the mother would let her daughter get lessons from the piano teacher.  She's probably the most twisted of them all.

Other than having kept the daughter's paternity a secret, I didn't see a problem. The mother probably never imagined in her wildest dreams that the guy would sleep with the girl (who was literally young enough to be his daughter), and thought it would be a non-suspicious way of letting them get to know one another. Now she'll have to live with the guilt of having destroyed three lives due to her secret which ended up coming out in the worst possible way.

I totally agree, @Joimiaroxeu.

But I still can't figure out how the mother's remark (about the dad loving the daughter more than she did) fits in.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Other than having kept the daughter's paternity a secret, I didn't see a problem. The mother probably never imagined in her wildest dreams that the guy would sleep with the girl (who was literally young enough to be his daughter), and thought it would be a non-suspicious way of letting them get to know one another. Now she'll have to live with the guilt of having destroyed three lives due to her secret which ended up coming out in the worst possible way.

I think, at best, you would be playing with fire if you are going to send your daughter to take lessons with her secret father.  For me, the only thing I would wonder is whether he ever did the math on the timing of his affair versus the girl's birthday. 

And I did have a question about Stone's sister's schizophrenia.  The way it was played, it almost seemed like the actress was playing the character as though she was slow.  I don't have much experience with the disease, but is that typically the end result of schizophrenia, where you are kind of reduced to a childlike level?     

[illdoc]

2 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

it almost seemed like the actress was playing the character as though she was slow. 

From L&O, the defendants who were taking medication for schiophrenia always said that they felt "foggy" (which is one of the reasons that they always stopped taking their meds). As to not knowing who Peter was (or confusing him with their father), that seemed more like Alzheimer's to me.

[CelticBlackCat]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think, at best, you would be playing with fire if you are going to send your daughter to take lessons with her secret father.  For me, the only thing I would wonder is whether he ever did the math on the timing of his affair versus the girl's birthday. 

And I did have a question about Stone's sister's schizophrenia.  The way it was played, it almost seemed like the actress was playing the character as though she was slow.  I don't have much experience with the disease, but is that typically the end result of schizophrenia, where you are kind of reduced to a childlike level?     

This is how I feel too.  How convenient for the mother, who cheated on her husband with her one-night-stand (supposedly) with Piano Teacher to have her daughter be in his life; that means he's in her life too!

I really felt bad for the duped non-bio dad who was the only one left standing with any integrity.

[UNOSEZ]

So you cheat on ur husband with the dude.. Have a kid.. Ok maybe you aren't sure who's the daddy but them the kid starts playing piano amazingly... You let the teacher back into ur life via his kid and you font even mention it???... No wonder that girl is so screwed up look at her  parents ( nature won out over nurture)..  Seriously that girl us horrible... Willingly framing someone... Scaring your friends.. Abandoning your family.. Who I guess she looked down upon... Smh

 

Do svu related crimes happen to minorities any more??  Manhattan aint that segregated... The only one off the top of my head I can remember was the one with Brian.. And that was more about him then the kids who got  abused... 

 

Weren't Fin and Rollins super close at one point??.. 

Ah well I've been watching since 99... Not stopping now