S01.E10: Castle in the Sky

[formerlyfreedom]

Season Finale!

Quote

Kreizler confronts the demons of his past. Moore tells Sara the truth. Connor takes matters into his own hands. The team closes in on the killer as time is running out.

[Timetoread]

All I have to say is that facial tic was ghastly!!  Good Lord how could you be anything but a serial killer with that?

[bosawks]

I believe John Moore is now intimately acquainted with half the stone walls in Manhattan.

I will miss this show and I’m glad I stuck around after the premiere which I confess to not loving.

And, yay, Joseph survives!

[Reality police]

Ok. What do I do now, where do I go? Just kidding. Glad Connor is dead, understand why he got the honor, not happy about it. So glad Sara was the one to shoot him.

I hope Gram spoils Joseph rotten. 

Really, really enjoyed this show. Hoping for another season. 

[EighteenTwelve]

I couldn't watch the part with the cat.  Especially since I had a cat asleep in my lap at the time. 

[Reality police]

2 minutes ago, EighteenTwelve said:

I couldn't watch the part with the cat.  Especially since I had a cat asleep in my lap at the time. 

I know. I yelled and both my cats just looked at me as if I was crazy. 

[WhatsUpDummy]

Ok, I definitely DID NOT need to see that poor cat being brutally killed. That was awful. Muted. 

[WednesdayAddams]

The romantic in me wanted to see John propose for real. 

[tennisgurl]

I am going to miss this show and my annual Monday night heart attacks so much! Especially when it involved possible child murder, creepy underground lairs filled with the Victorian Legion of Doom, and cat killing. Dear God show!

You know, in many ways...its a very cliche show. You have your cast of often eccentric characters, your creepy poetic serial killer, your tortured hero who understands the killer a little too much, your corrupt authority, your strong independent women, and all set in a lush period drama exploring the dark side of a time period often romatisised. And yet, it still managed to stay fresh, and to use these tropes and show why we like them. It made the characters compelling and sympathetic, it made the mystery legitimately scary, and the world didn't seem like something we have seen before, it felt exciting and lived it. Anything that can make so many cliche elements work not just in spite of its tropes, but make the tropes work FOR them, is an impressive series to me. 

I am just going to say that John proposed to Sara the next day, and they adopt Joseph and several cute kitties and everyone lives happily ever after. 

[Reality police]

And Gram and Joseph can eat Fig Newtons.

[pezgirl7]

Wow, that was some nail biting drama there!

I loved seeing John be so worried about Joseph, and how relieved he was when he found him. I would have liked a little scene of them together at the end.

I think I'm the only one who didn't want to see John and Sara get together. Although that kiss was super sweet and tender. I liked how Sara said that John was really only in love with what he doesn't have, and he didn't deny it. John taking her carriage was cute! If they had shown more of that version of Sara we had seen in the end, maybe I would have been more on board with them as a pairing.

I thought it was a bit overkill (pardon the pun) at first to have Sara be involved in her father's suicide, but then when she shot Connor (yea!!!!) and Teddy made his comment about how she could always do what had to be done, it made more sense.

I'm kinda disappointed that we never found out why Japheth murdered the boys, and what water had to do with it. And why he doesn't like tabbys! I guess some things are just meant to be a mystery.

[Hazel55]

Literally, two thoughts about this episode:

Woooohoo, Joseph is ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!

Wooooohooo, Connor is dead, dead, DEAD!!!!!!!

Everything else is secondary. 

[emma675]

My heart broke during the scene with Sara and Laszlo discussing their fathers. Fantastic acting by both and I could feel the two characters connecting over their experiences. 

I figured we couldn't end the season without John getting his ass kicked one more time.

I'm so happy Connor is dead and Sara was the one who did it. Cyrus will probably be pissed he didn't get the chance but pleased Sara did. 

I'm going to miss this weird little group. I became very attached to all of them.

[Neurochick]

Loved this episode.  The thing I didn’t like was..

Spoiler

In the book, Sara shoots Conner from across the roof.  He didn’t threaten her up close.  He was about to kill Moore and Kreizler though.  It was like Boom!  Conner falls down dead, Moore and Kreizler look and see Sara holding the smoking gun. G

I though this was better than the book.  In the book Beechem knocks out both Moore and Kreizler and ties them up, and I was like, that took way too much time to do.  The show did it better.  

One more thing, that scene with the cat didn’t happen in the book.  

Edited March 27, 2018 by Neurochick

[kanona29]

I realize I am in a relationship, but can I say that I want my own John Moore!! In the first episode, I was turned off by his whorish ways,  but I have grown very fond of him.

I randomly watched the first episode over the weekend and ended up binge watching the whole thing!

I see now that this series was based on a book. Please tell me there will be more mysteries with the same characters!

I need this show to come back...

[Hazel55]

There are about a thousand deep, thought provoking things to say about this episode. 

Buuuuut.... I'll leave that to everyone else here, and instead offer the following random, sometimes borderline inappropriate thoughts! 

--Is it just me, or does John Beecham resemble... wait for it, wait for it... Jesus? Seriously, the first time they showed a clear, full shot of Beecham's face as he was carrying Joseph near the end, I just stopped dead and murmured... "Jesus?" (I'm willing to accept it's probably only me who thinks this, and I am now officially going to Hell.) 

---More seriously, avoiding showing Beecham's face fully until his very last scene was an effective technique on the part of the show's writers. It allowed Beecham to remain a shadowy, mysterious figure, whilst simultaneously coming across as a sort of fantom threat and unstoppable boogie man.  (Which is exactly how many at the time would have viewed a serial killer.)The way they simply showed others reaction to it-- such as fearless street kid Stevie taking a good look at Beecham and looking truly terrified-- was far more effective than any ghoulish, "creepy" face or horror mask they could have done.  

In the end, Beecham looked utterly normal, which was more, rather than less scary, IMO. Because while you'd definitely expect somebody who looked like, say, Van Bergen, to be (in the least) pretty unsavory, even dangerous,  Beechem (assuming he'd combed his hair and put a shirt on) just looked like your normal, everyday guy. He looks more like your next door neighbor than a criminal.  And when you think about it, the concept that anybody, even the most nice and average looking among us, might be capable of doing horrible, violent things is terrifying-- far more terrifying than some brief shots of a creepy looking TV "monster." The "big bad's" ordinary appearance, not to mention ordinary height and build, also illustrated "the banality of evil."

-- Yet another admission that will assure my place in hell-- in the scene near the beginning, where John goes to the bathhouse and discovers that the corpse is not that of Joseph, I absolutely cracked up. Don't get me wrong, I was horrified that the other boy died, and (like John) thrilled that Joseph was still alive.

However.... the expressions on John's face? Just killed me. He came running up looking horrified, looked in horror over the chopped up body... only to get this huge look of relief on his face when he laid eyes on the face. His eyes were like, "Oh.... phew! It's not the kid I actually cared about, only some random extra! Wheew! Finally some good luck!" 

Don't get me wrong, I get why he was feeling that way, and was actually feeling that way myself. But to see my own (and I'm assuming, a lot of other peoples) affection towards Joseph vs. the general indifference towards some random other kid we've only seen a few times... was pretty funny, in a horrible way. We're all relieved it was "only that other kid." Good lord, I can't even remember the poor other murdered kids name, which is horrible in and of itself. It's weird how just a few scenes can make us care about some characters, while some others remain random extras. 

--Speaking of Joseph, I would have wanted to see one more scene of resolution-- what happened to him? Where did he go? How did his next conversation with Moore go? I would have liked to at least get some closure on this kid. Perhaps we could have gotten that rather than Marcus's unbelievably brief, pointless romance? (By the way, not sure on how that ended. Did the two get back together? Was irresponsible Marcus just going back for one last booty call, before abandoning Ester forever rather than "Have to take care of her and her child?" Was it a goodbye kiss? It's unclear, but luckily I really don't care.)

--Oh Connor. You literally could have been the "hero" (by which I mean he could have at least been publicly  credited as one) even after murdering a girl, threatening rape, accepting bribes, and generally being by far the worst character on this show, child killing cannibal included. You could have just shot the bad guy and taken credit with "saving the day." But you just had to then go on to decide to murder EVERYONE, then threaten a rape, didn't you? Bye Felicia. 

--Reason #100,001 why it's JUST WONDERFUL Connor is dead: now his son actually has a chance to turn out okay. Seriously, I was watching his kid standing by Roosevelt, and I reflected, "Well, he seems like a nice kid. At least now that his dad's gone, he has a chance to find his own path rather than that of his father, and perhaps turn out to be a decent man." 

This kind of runs in to Kreizler's scene near the end with his father, and his implication that, since we all are ultimately responsible for how we turn out, it is possible for one to be better than one's parents, no matter how miserable one's origins. Hopefully Connor's son will look to other role models, and learn to be a better man than his father. 

--The scene between Sarah and Kreizler was beautiful, one of the best (if not the best) scene this season. I was shocked that it was Sarah (rather than John, or Cyrus, or anyone else) that Kreizler ended up confiding in. It also surprised me that his father (whom I'm sure many of us suspected of being abusive at this point) was not just evil and violent, but also loving (some of the time.) It makes Kreizler's complex mix of love and hatred for the man, as well as disgust with himself far more understandable. (After all, it's one thing to have someone you simply hate abuse you and tell you you're worthless; it is probably far more psychologically damaging to have someone you love do that to you.) 

And Sarah: I was thrilled we finally got more background on her, I thought we'd never know the exact details of her father's suicide. I was riveted to find out what actually happened, as well as the effect it had on forming her adult character. 

Overall, I loved this series. What started out as a (seemingly) typical serial killer, lone detective show unique only for its historical setting turned into something else entirely-- a fascinating meditation on society, fate, free will, human cruelty and kindness. 

I suspect there will almost surely be a season two, but this season stands well alone. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Hazel55

[Straycat80]

I will miss this show and hope it comes back with the same Scooby gang of five. 

I cheered when Sara killed Moore and loved the ending with Laszlo giving Moore the ring to give to Sara.  I'm glad Joseph survived but wish they had shown him being ok and having an egg cream with Moore or something. 

I wish they had let us know why Japheth had killed the boys and what did he have against cats. Guess we'll never know...unless someone who read the book?...was it in there? 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Straycat80

[KungFuBunny]

Loved that Sarah killed Connor, but I was really hoping that Drury got up and gutted him with that eyeball remover of his.

Why did Roosevelt change the narrative of Connor's death and turn him into a "hero"? Why not say, he was a disgraced officer who impeded the investigation and was shot in the crossfire? They could have said Drury shot him.

Is it because of the power the former commissioner still has?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

11 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Loved that Sarah killed Connor, but I was really hoping that Drury got up and gutted him with that eyeball remover of his.

Why did Roosevelt change the narrative of Connor's death and turn him into a "hero"? Why not say, he was a disgraced officer who impeded the investigation and was shot in the crossfire? They could have said Drury shot him.

Is it because of the power the former commissioner still has?

I think he did that, to protect the family from shame and embarrassment.

Have Connor remembered as a hero, so the family could get death benefits.

[KungFuBunny]

16 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

I think he did that, to protect the family from shame and embarrassment.

Have Connor remembered as a hero, so the family could get death benefits.

Were there even death benefits or insurance back then?

I was thinking more likely they wouldn't say Sara shot him even though she works for the NYC police department - she's not really accepted as a "cop". Kreisler and Moore are not supposed to be armed.

Edited March 27, 2018 by KungFuBunny

[MrsRafaelBarba]

1 minute ago, KungFuBunny said:

Was there even death benefits or insurance back then?

I was thinking more likely they wouldn't say Sara shot him even though she works for the NYC police department - she's not really accepted as a "cop". Kreisler and Moore are not supposed to be armed.

For fallen Policemen, it's possible.

[Cotypubby]

I could not stand Dakota Fanning at all, she’s either a terrible actress or it’s how she chose to play the part, but in every scene she has the exact same wide-eyed mouth open look. Hated her the entire series. 

So we never get any more info on the whole “John gets drugged in the brothel” thing? Weren’t we meant to think he was raped and then that is just never mentioned again? Wtf!?

[Reality police]

1 hour ago, Hazel55 said:

There are about a thousand deep, thought provoking things to say about this episode. 

Buuuuut.... I'll leave that to everyone else here, all of whom can doubtlessly speak about such things better than I, and instead offer the following random, sometimes borderline inappropriate thoughts! 

--Is it just me, or does John Beecham resemble... wait for it, wait for it... Jesus? Seriously, the first time they showed a clear, full shot of Beecham's face as he was carrying Joseph near the end, I just stopped dead and murmured... "Jesus?" (I'm willing to accept that this is probably only me who thinks this, and I am not officially going to Hell.) 

--But more seriously... it was quite creepy how they managed to avoid showing Beecham's face fully until his last scene, making him more effective as a sort of larger than life, phantom threat crossed with an unstoppable boogie man. (Which is exactly how many at the time would have viewed a serial killer.)The way they simply showed others reaction to it-- such as fearless street kid Stevie taking a good look at Beecham and looking truly terrified-- was far more effective than any ghoulish, "creepy" face or horror mask they could have done. (Such as showing Beecham as being big and scary, having some hideous deformity or skin disease, or some creepy abnormality such as Van Bergen's "silver smile".)

In the end, Beecham looked utterly normal, which was more, rather than less scary, IMO. Because while you'd definitely expect somebody who looked like, say, Van Bergen, to be (in the least) pretty unsavory, even dangerous,  Beechem (assuming he'd combed his hair and put a shirt on) just looked like your normal, everyday guy. He looks more like your next door neighbor than a criminal.  And when you think about it, the concept that anybody, even the most nice and average looking among us, might be capable of doing horrible, violent things is terrifying-- far more terrifying than some brief shots of a creepy looking TV "monster." The "big bad's" ordinary appearance, not to mention ordinary height and build, also illustrated "the banality of evil."

-- Yet another admission that will assure my place in hell-- in the scene near the beginning, where John goes to the bathhouse and discovers that the corpse is not that of Joseph, I absolutely cracked up. Don't get me wrong, I was horrified that the other boy died, and (like John) thrilled that Joseph was still alive. However.... the expressions on John's face? Just killed me. He came running up looking horrified, looked in horror over the chopped up body... only to get this huge look of relief on his face when he laid eyes on the face. His eyes were like, "Oh.... phew! It's not the kid I actually cared about, only some random extra! Wheew! Finally some good luck!" 

Don't get me wrong, I get why he was feeling that way, and was actually feeling that way myself. But to see my own (and I'm assuming, a lot of other peoples) affection towards Joseph vs. the general indifference towards some random other kid we've only seen a few times... was pretty funny, in a horrible way. We're all relieved it was "only that other kid." Good lord, I can't even remember the poor other murdered kids name, which is horrible in and of itself. It's weird how just a few scenes can make us care about some characters, while some others remain random extras. 

--Speaking of Joseph, I would have wanted to see one more scene of resolution-- what happened to him? Where did he go? How did his next conversation with Moore go? I would have liked to at least get some closure on this kid. Perhaps we could have gotten that rather than Marcus's unbelievably brief, pointless romance? (By the way, not sure on how that ended. Did the two get back together? Was irresponsible Marcus just going back for one last booty call, before abandoning Ester forever rather than "Have to take care of her and her child?" Was it a goodbye kiss? It's unclear, but luckily I really don't care.)

--Oh Connor. You literally could have been the "hero" (by which I mean he could have at least been publicly  credited as one) even after murdering a girl, threatening rape, accepting bribes, and generally being by far the worst character on this show, child killing cannibal included. You could have just shot the bad guy and taken credit with "saving the day." But you just had to then go on to decide to murder EVERYONE, then threaten a rape, didn't you? Bye Felicia. 

--Reason #100,001 why it's JUST WONDERFUL Connor is dead: now his son actually has a chance to turn out okay. Seriously, I was watching his kid standing by Roosevelt, and I reflected, "Well, he seems like a nice kid. At least now that his dad's gone, he has a chance to find his own path rather than that of his father, and perhaps turn out to be a decent man." 

This kind of runs in to Kreizler's scene near the end with his father, and his implication that, since we all are ultimately responsible for how we turn out, it is possible for one to be better than one's parents, no matter how miserable one's origins. Hopefully Connor's son will look to other role models, and learn to be a better man than his father. 

--The scene between Sarah and Kreizler was beautiful, one of the best (if not the best) scene this season. I was shocked that it was Sarah (rather than John, or Cyrus, or anyone else) that Kreizler ended up confiding in. It also surprised me that his father (whom I'm sure many of us suspected of being abusive at this point) was not just evil and violent, but also loving (some of the time.) It makes Kreizler's complex mix of love and hatred for the man, as well as disgust with himself far more understandable. (After all, it's one thing to have someone you simply hate abuse you and tell you you're worthless; it is probably far more psychologically damaging to have someone you love do that to you.) 

And Sarah: I was thrilled we finally got more background on her, I thought we'd never know the exact details of her father's suicide. I was riveted to find out what actually happened, as well as the effect it had on forming her adult character. 

Overall, I loved this series. What started out as a (seemingly) typical serial killer, lone detective show unique only for its historical setting turned into something else entirely-- a fascinating meditation on society, fate, free will, human cruelty and kindness. 

I suspect there will almost surely be a season two, but this season stands well alone. 

Well said. Save me a seat in Hell because I agree with you. This series was so beautifully written and acted. 

After spending 5 million on the set I would hope they want to use it again. 

I'm glad they left Sara and John the way they did. I don't want everything tied up in a neat bow. Room for season two.

I was hoping for one shot of Joseph being hugged by Gram. He deserves it. In my mind that's where he is. Learning to draw!?

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

Loved that Sarah killed Connor, but I was really hoping that Drury got up and gutted him with that eyeball remover of his.

Why did Roosevelt change the narrative of Connor's death and turn him into a "hero"? Why not say, he was a disgraced officer who impeded the investigation and was shot in the crossfire? They could have said Drury shot him.

Is it because of the power the former commissioner still has?

I think they thought the public wasn't ready for the idea of the Fab Five solving this case while the police floundered. 

[minamurray78]

I too, like someone up thread, binge-watched the show during the weekend. Couldn´t turn it off. As a Ripper Street fan, this was right up my alley. I'm actually ok with Dr. Kreizler not getting his answer. I'm not sure there is an answer that would satisfy him. He examined the brain afterwards, still looking for an explanation, a physiological indicator to help understand what would make a man do something like that. But sometimes there just isn´t.

Dakota Fanning surprised me in that scene with the doctor. The character had seemed so reserved and collected at the beginning, it was nice to see her loosen up with John, and share her secret with the doctor. 

Also, kudos to Sara for being the ONLY person who thought to bring a weapon in the event of a confrontation with a very violent and strong multi-killer. Although we don´t know that she hasn´t been carrying that little thing around all the time, but still, no excuse for John and specially the doctor, who knew they were going to meet the killer with no police around. 

About Connor´s medal, I thought it was pretty smart of Roosevelt. For one thing, it was an "elegant" explanation as to how he died. There were no witnesses to the worst threats he had made against Sara or to kill all 3 of them, and the claims of harassment in front of other officers wouldn´t have helped: they had all celebrated it. They even covered for him when he killed Mary. But by making him a hero, not only is Sara left alone, but also Roosevelt is somehow ingratiating himself with those in the force who respected Connor, and neutralizing the former chief, who could have rallied those policemen against Roosevelt if Connor´ sins had been made public. 

Also glad Joseph made it (that was close), and though it would have been unrealistic if Sara and John had ended up engaged, I think that window is still open.

I'm really hoping for a second season. There were a few times Ripper Street seemed to be stuck but we had 5 seasons and a, well I wouldn't call it happy ending, but a resolution.

[Reality police]

4 minutes ago, minamurray78 said:

 

Dakota Fanning surprised me in that scene with the doctor. The character had seemed so reserved and collected at the beginning, it was nice to see her loosen up with John, and share her secret with the doctor. 

Also, kudos to Sara for being the ONLY person who thought to bring a weapon in the event of a confrontation with a very violent and strong multi-killer. Although we don´t know that she hasn´t been carrying that little thing around all the time, but still, no excuse for John and specially the doctor, who knew they were going to meet the killer with no police around. 

Also glad Joseph made it (that was close), and though it would have been unrealistic if Sara and John had ended up engaged, I think that window is still open.

I'm really hoping for a second season. There were a few times Ripper Street seemed to be stuck but we had 5 seasons and a, well I wouldn't call it happy ending, but a resolution.

I kept yelling at the tv during the chase scene about no one having a gun! So glad she saved the boys! I did wonder why she didn't bring the twins with her. 

So glad about Joseph. 

[tennisgurl]

Now that I've thought about it, I really loved the last scene with Kreizler where he says how he will certainly have time to study why people do evil things because people will always do evil, and Sara said that people will continue to do good things too, and he smiles and agrees. I think that might be one of the big themes of the show. The gang spent the season trying to understand why this person is doing something unspeakably evil, while we also see people like Connor becoming more and more twisted and evil as well. We spend a lot of time watching the characters trying to understand the evils that people do, while we, the audience, so the same. The killer ended up being a deeply mentally ill person who was deeply damaged by his past and never got past it, while Connor and his lackeys gave into their worse instincts and became monsters. Even the rich people who tried to hide their dirty secrets even if it meant innocent people were killed looked away when they could have done more (or, so they thought) but were instead ruled by selfishness.  

But, at the same time, we saw our gang doing good things, just because they wanted to help save people. We saw that they have their own issues and traumas, and could easily give into selfishness, anger, or cruelty, but they instead became better people (especially John and Kreizler) and tried their best to rise above their worst instincts. Everything isnt perfect, but there are people doing good in the world, who are not trapped in their own sickness and trauma, are not giving into bitterness and hatred, or hiding behind money or status. Thats I think why they ended on Kreizler telling his dad he forgave him for what he did to him as a kid. I doubt all of his issues are gone (especially after the loss of Mary) but he wont be surrendering to the darkness, and thats something. Evil will continue, but so will good, as long as people keep on keeping on. 

[Hazel55]

4 hours ago, Reality police said:

I hope Gram spoils Joseph rotten. 

John's granny is officially the best. Her delivery of the line, "I'm not afraid of these psychopath's" (not to mention the haughty look on her face) absolutely cracked me up. And it was true, no doubt. Gram is a total badass. She and Sarah Howard have to join together and created their own ladies detective agency. 

[renatae]

4 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

I think he did that, to protect the family from shame and embarrassment.

Have Connor remembered as a hero, so the family could get death benefits.

Also not ruffle the feathers of the police and further complicate the relationship between them and the Commish. But I wish he had been exposed in all his evil.

I am terribly disappointed not to learn the murderer's motivation. By his last words, he showed he had a definite purpose of which he was aware.

Not sure how it happened, but I missed the cat part and won't be going back to check it out!

Hoping TPTB decide on another season!

[Kathira]

7 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

--Is it just me, or does John Beecham resemble... wait for it, wait for it... Jesus? Seriously, the first time they showed a clear, full shot of Beecham's face as he was carrying Joseph near the end, I just stopped dead and murmured... "Jesus?" (I'm willing to accept it's probably only me who thinks this, and I am now officially going to Hell.) 

I also thought that, other than the tic, he was almost angelic looking. He certainly looked that way when his face finally relaxed in death. I think they cast him that way, because otherwise the boys would never have gone with him. No one would have hired him for a job that involved interactions with the public if he was a hideous monster, even over and above the tic. I have to go back and watch it again, but I also thought that him being a bit feminine/delicate in appearance, may have led him to focus on the female-presenting boy prostitutes. He both identified with them and hated them, because he saw in them the characteristics that he thought led the original Beecham to attack him. Taking the eyes must have been about the way they looked at him, with disgust and fear and pity. As he said, he wouldn't take Kreizler's eyes because he wanted him to see him. Was it Kreizler that said that in the end, they went looking for evil and found just another damaged child?

By the way, did we ever find out definitively how he had contact with the boys, other than being a census enumerator? Or why the boys didn't recognize the picture? Granted, it was a terrible likeness. Eyewitness composites have come a long way since then, LOL. There were also a bunch of clues that didn't seem to go anywhere, like the fingerprints.

I really enjoyed this show and was on the edge of my seat the whole episode. Normally, I am on the computer at the same time as I'm watching most shows, and almost always time shift, but this one, I put the distractions down and watched it in real time.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Kathira

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Even though no one outside of their group will ever know the truth, I love that Sara is the one who saved herself by shooting Connor.

The scene where Laszlo and Sara reveal the stories about their fathers was really great.

Even if Japeth had lived, that doesn't mean he would have told Lazslo what drove him to choose water or why he killed all of those boys, so he may have been just as frustrated.

I am going to assume that Grams and Joseph are having Fig Newtons during the day and then at night Grams and Sara are out kicking ass in various ways.

[bosawks]

Laszlo is also assuming that Japeth knew why he was killing those boys in the manner he did as opposed to be driven to it by his own demons.

He was bound to be disappointed in the end no matter what, in that regards, I think.

I think I will miss the way that John said both Laszlo's and Sarah's names the most, it was akin to a caress.  

Edited March 27, 2018 by bosawks

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Kathira said:

I also thought that, other than the tic, he was almost angelic looking. He certainly looked that way when his face finally relaxed in death. I think they cast him that way, because otherwise the boys would never have gone with him. No one would have hired him for a job that involved interactions with the public if he was a hideous monster, even over and above the tic. I have to go back and watch it again, but I also thought that him being a bit feminine/delicate in appearance, may have led him to focus on the female-presenting boy prostitutes. He both identified with them and hated them, because he saw in them the characteristics that he thought led the original Beecham to attack him. Taking the eyes must have been about the way they looked at him, with disgust and fear and pity. As he said, he wouldn't take Kreizler's eyes because he wanted him to see him. Was it Kreizler that said that in the end, they went looking for evil and found just another damaged child?

By the way, did we ever find out definitively how he had contact with the boys, other than being a census enumerator? Or why the boys didn't recognize the picture? Granted, it was a terrible likeness. Eyewitness composites have come a long way since then, LOL. There were also a bunch of clues that didn't seem to go anywhere, like the fingerprints.

I really enjoyed this show and was on the edge of my seat the whole episode. Normally, I am on the computer at the same time as I'm watching most shows, and almost always time shift, but this one, I put the distractions down and watched it in real time.

I think there were so many touches of realism that I appreciated. We will never know what truly motivated the killer, heck we do not even know if the killer knew.  I love what everyone is saying about a pretty darn good looking guy besides the tick.

 

10 hours ago, Reality police said:

Ok. What do I do now, where do I go? Just kidding. Glad Connor is dead, understand why he got the honor, not happy about it. So glad Sara was the one to shoot him.

I hope Gram spoils Joseph rotten. 

Really, really enjoyed this show. Hoping for another season. 

 

10 hours ago, Reality police said:

And Gram and Joseph can eat Fig Newtons.

I hope so too. However, it is not unusual for sexually exploited and abused children to never get used to living in a normal or safe environment because of the trauma. This type of abuse is all Joseph has ever known and now he has the trauma of the kidnapping and abduction to add to this turmoil.

I hope he is okay and luckily John's very good friend has a school to help him.

Poor cat.

[festivus]

That scene between Kreizler and Sara was what I'd been waiting for all season. Powerful stuff.

 

Now I finally get to go read the book thread. I read this book 20 years ago but remembered almost nothing about it.

Oh yeah, I loved John's grandma, I'm glad we got to see her again.

[libgirl2]

The cat scene was a bit too much for me as a cat owner! 

[sugarbaker design]

11 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I think I'm the only one who didn't want to see John and Sara get together

You are not the only one.  I, along with Margo Channing, detest cheap sentiment.  Nothing says 'happily ever after' more than a reformed alcoholic, a career police officer and a child prostitute!  

However, the soft side of me got even softer at the point where Sarah Howard is looking at John Moore holding and consoling an unconscious Joseph.  That was awesome.

Did I miss something or did Kreisler and Moore go into the reservoir after a serial killer with no weapons?

[bosawks]

17 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

The cat scene was a bit too much for me as a cat owner! 

As a non-cat owner it was a little much for me.  As a matter of fact even my dog looked a little like, "Dude, too much."

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Did I miss something or did Kreisler and Moore go into the reservoir after a serial killer with no weapons?

In John's defense, he thought they were going to a different location where the would have a bunch of armed police backup so he didn't bother bringing any weapons to the opera. Laszlo, on the other hand, planned this all along so it was stupid for him not to bring any kind of weapon.

[sugarbaker design]

9 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In John's defense, he thought they were going to a different location where the would have a bunch of armed police backup so he didn't bother bringing any weapons to the opera. Laszlo, on the other hand, planned this all along so it was stupid for him not to bring any kind of weapon.

So true.  Bad move Kreizler!

Other than that, the only problem I had with the showdown with Drury is that the Isaacson brothers weren't there.  Those two were in it from the start and should've been there in the end.

[88Keys]

12 hours ago, EighteenTwelve said:

I couldn't watch the part with the cat.  Especially since I had a cat asleep in my lap at the time. 

I had to close my eyes and cover my ears, and I'm not even an animal lover.  

11 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Loved this episode.  The thing I didn’t like was..

  Hide contents

In the book, Sara shoots Conner from across the roof.  He didn’t threaten her up close.  He was about to kill Moore and Kreizler though.  It was like Boom!  Conner falls down dead, Moore and Kreizler look and see Sara holding the smoking gun. G

I though this was better than the book.  In the book Beechem knocks out both Moore and Kreizler and ties them up, and I was like, that took way too much time to do.  The show did it better.  

One more thing, that scene with the cat didn’t happen in the book.  

Spoiler

 

I don't know what kind of gun she had in the book, but there is no way that little Derringer she was packing would have made an accurate shot from across a rooftop, in the dark.  So I agree- well done, show.  I also like that Connor KNEW who killed him, instead of it being a random shot from far away.  He looked so surprised!  

 

10 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

 

--Is it just me, or does John Beecham resemble... wait for it, wait for it... Jesus? Seriously, the first time they showed a clear, full shot of Beecham's face as he was carrying Joseph near the end, I just stopped dead and murmured... "Jesus?" (I'm willing to accept it's probably only me who thinks this, and I am now officially going to Hell.) 

 

--Reason #100,001 why it's JUST WONDERFUL Connor is dead: now his son actually has a chance to turn out okay. Seriously, I was watching his kid standing by Roosevelt, and I reflected, "Well, he seems like a nice kid. At least now that his dad's gone, he has a chance to find his own path rather than that of his father, and perhaps turn out to be a decent man." 

 

 

I didn't think he looked like Jesus, but when I took his shirt off, I did think he was kinda hot.  Nice lean-muscled back.  

And somehow...I completely missed the facial tic.  ???

As for Connor's son, I did have a brief moment of sympathy for the kid when his father died.  Then I quickly realized he is probably better off without that bully in his life.  

 

For everyone who wants John to adopt Joseph- doesn't Joseph have a family somewhere?  Or was it said that he was an orphan?  I also agree that he would be better off at Kriezler's school and John can give him art lessons on the side.

[TattleTeeny]

12 hours ago, EighteenTwelve said:

I couldn't watch the part with the cat.  Especially since I had a cat asleep in my lap at the time. 

I screamed (which caused me to no longer have a cat on my lap). I knew it was going to happen and I just didn't hide my eyes fast enough, man. It's actually really sticking in my memory now and I wish I hadn't seen it. Ugh.

[KungFuBunny]

7 hours ago, renatae said:

Also not ruffle the feathers of the police and further complicate the relationship between them and the Commish. But I wish he had been exposed in all his evil.

I am terribly disappointed not to learn the murderer's motivation. By his last words, he showed he had a definite purpose of which he was aware.

Not sure how it happened, but I missed the cat part and won't be going back to check it out!

Hoping TPTB decide on another season!

Had Drury been captured and institutionalized, perhaps Kreisler would have gotten some answers over time, but he would have ended up with more questions if Drury gave him a one sentence explanation before dying.

My theory is that Drury believed he was saving these boys. His victims were about the same age as him when he was raped and he wished that he himself was killed instead of going through life with this trauma in his head. He takes them up to the castle in the sky - leaving their body somewhere high in altitude finally at peace. His attraction to heights represents the only time he was ever happy when he went climbing/hiking on the cliffs back home. He takes their eyes so they no longer see. He is saving these boys from a lifetime of having to give in to the sexual demands of a pedophile.

I also think there was some part of him that wanted to be caught - hence his letter to the team. He needed to be caught because his compulsion would not allow him to stop. He would have kept at it until he was killed and finally at peace.

Edited March 27, 2018 by KungFuBunny

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Byrnes was so unblinking while staring at Laszlo and John at the opera that I started to wonder if someone had killed him and left his body posed in that box seat. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, minamurray78 said:

About Connor´s medal, I thought it was pretty smart of Roosevelt. For one thing, it was an "elegant" explanation as to how he died. There were no witnesses to the worst threats he had made against Sara or to kill all 3 of them, and the claims of harassment in front of other officers wouldn´t have helped: they had all celebrated it. They even covered for him when he killed Mary. But by making him a hero, not only is Sara left alone, but also Roosevelt is somehow ingratiating himself with those in the force who respected Connor, and neutralizing the former chief, who could have rallied those policemen against Roosevelt if Connor´ sins had been made public.

The look the police chief gave Roosevelt when he passed by him at the ceremony was positively poisonous, but he knew he couldn't do anything because that would screw the coverup of what Connor really was. I straight up cheered when Sara shot him, and in the gut too.

Glad to see Kreizler get a bit of healing rather than slide further into depression and despair. That he kept his back towards Sara when he told her what happened to his arm was a sign of how closed-off he still is, but even if he never said the words I think that was his way of apologizing for striking her. As others have said, it was a surprisingly lovely scene. He and John are friends, but I'm happy he and Sara are becoming better acquainted.

Yay, they saved Joseph! Well, I guess Sara saved Joseph, since that maniac Connor might have ended up killing him too when he shot Japheth in the back. But the way John immediately went to the kid once Connor was dead was very touching. I'm wondering if leaving the door half-open for John and Sara to get closer means there's going to be a second season.. She told him he was in love with his dreams, what he doesn't have, and I think there's something to that, but she never really turned him down either. He's done a fair amount of growing up in a short time, if only because his vices have gotten him beaten up so often, so if they do plan to continue, who knows?

[sugarbaker design]

19 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Byrnes was so unblinking while staring at Laszlo and John at the opera that I started to wonder if someone had killed him and left his body posed in that box seat. 

I was beginning to think Byrnes was a cardboard cutout!

[festivus]

35 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Glad to see Kreizler get a bit of healing rather than slide further into depression and despair. That he kept his back towards Sara when he told her what happened to his arm was a sign of how closed-off he still is, but even if he never said the words I think that was his way of apologizing for striking her.

I think he did though. When he was first talking to her of Mary, he ended it with saying forgive me. I did take that as him asking Sara to forgive him for not just the slap, but picking at her wounds of her father. She then asked Laszlo to forgive her too.

 

ETA: I just really loved that scene. They needed that talk if they are to work together in the future.

Edited March 27, 2018 by festivus

[pezgirl7]

12 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Why did Roosevelt change the narrative of Connor's death and turn him into a "hero"? Why not say, he was a disgraced officer who impeded the investigation and was shot in the crossfire? They could have said Drury shot him.

I think there's the mentality, even now, that any disgraced officer reflects poorly on the police as a whole, and lessens the public's faith in them. So I can see Roosevelt wanting to put a positive spin on the whole thing in order to make the police look better.

In one of the previews, they showed John coming to Laszlo, begging him, "Help me save this boy". I wish they wouldn't have cut that scene. But it seems that they cut out quite a few scenes. Do they ever have director's cuts for TV shows? :)

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, 88Keys said:

I had to close my eyes and cover my ears, and I'm not even an animal lover.  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I don't know what kind of gun she had in the book, but there is no way that little Derringer she was packing would have made an accurate shot from across a rooftop, in the dark.  So I agree- well done, show.  I also like that Connor KNEW who killed him, instead of it being a random shot from far away.  He looked so surprised!  

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't think he looked like Jesus, but when I took his shirt off, I did think he was kinda hot.  Nice lean-muscled back.  

And somehow...I completely missed the facial tic.  ???

As for Connor's son, I did have a brief moment of sympathy for the kid when his father died.  Then I quickly realized he is probably better off without that bully in his life.  

 

For everyone who wants John to adopt Joseph- doesn't Joseph have a family somewhere?  Or was it said that he was an orphan?  I also agree that he would be better off at Kriezler's school and John can give him art lessons on the side.

I only saw a quick second of a tic. I expected more. 

2 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Had Drury been captured and institutionalized, perhaps Kreisler would have gotten some answers over time, but he would have ended up with more questions if Drury gave him a one sentence explanation before dying.

My theory is that Drury believed he was saving these boys. His victims were about the same age as him when he was raped and he wished that he himself was killed instead of going through life with this trauma in his head. He takes them up to the castle in the sky - leaving their body somewhere high in altitude finally at peace. His attraction to heights represents the only time he was ever happy when he went climbing/hiking on the cliffs back home. He takes their eyes so they no longer see. He is saving these boys from a lifetime of having to give in to the sexual demands of a pedophile.

I also think there was some part of him that wanted to be caught - hence his letter to the team. He needed to be caught because his compulsion would not allow him to stop. He would have kept at it until he was killed and finally at peace.

that is a good theory and makes sense, but he was also so cruel in how he killed them. He could have easily just suffocated them. 

[PinkyWentworth]

2 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

I was beginning to think Byrnes was a cardboard cutout!

I said that to my husband.  He looked so one dimensional!

[janey99]

3 hours ago, 88Keys said:

I had to close my eyes and cover my ears, and I'm not even an animal lover.  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I don't know what kind of gun she had in the book, but there is no way that little Derringer she was packing would have made an accurate shot from across a rooftop, in the dark.  So I agree- well done, show.  I also like that Connor KNEW who killed him, instead of it being a random shot from far away.  He looked so surprised!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't think he looked like Jesus, but when I took his shirt off, I did think he was kinda hot.  Nice lean-muscled back.  

And somehow...I completely missed the facial tic.  ???

As for Connor's son, I did have a brief moment of sympathy for the kid when his father died.  Then I quickly realized he is probably better off without that bully in his life.  

 

For everyone who wants John to adopt Joseph- doesn't Joseph have a family somewhere?  Or was it said that he was an orphan?  I also agree that he would be better off at Kriezler's school and John can give him art lessons on the side.

You and me both on the tic - it was barely noticeable.  I see someone with TS every day, and Japeth's tic was pretty meh.  Certainly not "ghastly" like one poster described!

edited to correct to ghastly.

Edited March 27, 2018 by janey99
to correct a reference

[Kaiju Ballet]

15 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

--Is it just me, or does John Beecham resemble... wait for it, wait for it... Jesus? Seriously, the first time they showed a clear, full shot of Beecham's face as he was carrying Joseph near the end, I just stopped dead and murmured... "Jesus?" (I'm willing to accept it's probably only me who thinks this, and I am now officially going to Hell.) 

I didn't think Jesus, but it makes sense given the Biblical verse that Lazlo quoted about someone greater than John the Baptist coming along, and the symbolism of the water tied into that. Beecham resembled to me one the depictions of John the Baptist from Renaissance painting. I have to confess, I was too busy trying to see the facial tic, while trying not to see him doing horrible things. Poor cat! (I muted and looked away.)

Was Beecham the same person who drew them all to the same restaurant in one of the earlier episodes, when we were meant to think it was Sean Young's son?

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In John's defense, he thought they were going to a different location where the would have a bunch of armed police backup so he didn't bother bringing any weapons to the opera. Laszlo, on the other hand, planned this all along so it was stupid for him not to bring any kind of weapon.

Typical of Lazlo. This isn't the first time he's allowed himself to be within attacking distance of dangerous people, without weapons, like the guy convicted of eating faces or whoever that was chained to a pole and walking in circles. Not to mention taking in Mary. The time he was shot while in the carriage might have been the first time he realized the shizzle's getting real, but even so, he's had a lifetime of affirming that he can reason with otherwise irrational people.

13 hours ago, minamurray78 said:

kudos to Sara for being the ONLY person who thought to bring a weapon in the event of a confrontation with a very violent and strong multi-killer. Although we don´t know that she hasn´t been carrying that little thing around all the time, but still, no excuse for John and specially the doctor, who knew they were going to meet the killer with no police around. 

Lol, and I was screaming at the TV when she started rushing into the reservoir--don't go in there by yourself!!!! I was worried to see another reprise of someone like Mary (who I would've bet on!) being overpowered by Connor.

15 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

Perhaps we could have gotten that rather than Marcus's unbelievably brief, pointless romance? (By the way, not sure on how that ended. Did the two get back together? Was irresponsible Marcus just going back for one last booty call, before abandoning Ester forever rather than "Have to take care of her and her child?" Was it a goodbye kiss? It's unclear, but luckily I really don't care.)

I was telling myself it was a contrast between the other two romances in the show: Kriezler and Mary's, John and Sara's. There was something quite satisfying (although modern feeling)  in that final scene between John and Sara--it wouldn't have felt true to her character if she confessed she were also in love. But it was believable that the potential was there if they continued to work together. Even though he did admit to her being capable enough to one day become the police commissioner (and nice line about her needing to "be allowed" anything moving forward!), it was just minutes/hours before that he was still trying to preserve her "lady-like" reputation by obscuring the fact that she shot Connor. It's still progress from his telling her to stay back from participating or looking at dead bodies, and I'd be interested in watching this continue.

And she was right on the money about his wanting what he can't have. He's only learning to work at getting what he wants, and this bodes well for a second season development.

I also thought that Esther could have thrived in the opportunity that Sara had, except for her socio-economic place in society. (Was she Jewish as well?) We saw a similar peek in the character of Cyrus' niece/daughter, and the dominatrix-client that Kriezler visited early on. It also helped make Sara seem less of a Mary Sue, and more like a woman unwilling to be marginalized by mainstream expectations, instead using her resources to fulfill her potential as much as possible. 

I'm also relieved that Joseph survived. The way this show is, I was prepared for the worst.