S07.E07: Andante

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Carrie makes a move; Wellington has a reckoning; Saul expands an operation.

Promo:

 

Clip:

[SuprSuprElevated]

Why do you suppose that Homeland producers/show runners think a woman president would necessarily resemble a school marm in a gulag?

[SuprSuprElevated]

Holy coitus interruptus!  Carrie, you were warned gf.

[thegriswolds]

I don't know why everyone who is close to Carrie hasn't kicked her out of their lives by now.  Looks like Saul's about there.

41 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Why do you suppose that Homeland producers/show runners think a woman president would necessarily resemble a school marm in a gulag?

Right?  How could someone so dry and humorless get elected to anything.

[WaltersHair]

I can't even hate on the sister, because she's right. Franny needs to be with her if Carrie is going to run around unmedicated and hooking up with Dante. And spying.

Understatement of the episode: "Carrie isn't always the most reliable" (something close to that.) Yep.

Oh, and if the VP was anyone except Bo Bridges, I'd say he wasn't involved. He is so involved.

Edited March 26, 2018 by WaltersHair

[Pallas]

I think @chocolatine was right on the money last week: Dante is another Brody, someone of ambiguous allegiances. But this time, he hasn't been turned, despite all the effort to blacken him this ep: all the lies in which he was caught, the connection with Simone that Max discovered, and the reveal of Dante's obsession with Carrie. Or at least, a time when he was obsessed with Carrie as a symbol of what's wrong with our heedless misadventures abroad, in the name of national security.

He was embittered by the shitshow in Kabul -- as all the show's protagonists have despaired  -- and how he got blamed for that latest inevitable mess, for which she seemed to have been rewarded. But I suspect that, rather than staging a vendetta against Carrie, years later he's been following a lead and running his own solo show to expose the Russians through Simone. Exactly as Carrie was running her own solo show to expose Wellington.

Dante and Carrie are the same person. (Except he's better with children, and meeting the family.) That's what the inter-cutting between the two interrogation scenes -- he with her sister, and Carrie with his ex-wife -- was intended to suggest.

Franny digs him. Franny gets it. "Mommy?  Mommy...Mommy! Don't."  

[JocelynCavanaugh]

Carrie needs to give that kid up already. Far too many late-night raids for one childhood. Having Carrie get knocked up by a terrorist, and keep the baby, and raise her horribly, is by far the worst misstep in this show's history. And yes, I'm remembering the other missteps. This is the one that's bugged me the most.

[Ottis]

I've arrived at a system that makes this show 100 percent better. Any scene with Franny or Carrie's sister, I FF through. The rest is good stuff.

So Dante's conclusion after seeing Carrie was investigating him was ... To bang her? Does that mean he doesn't suspect she suspects?

[chocolatine]

I love that Saul knew that Carrie would do the exact opposite of what he told her and got on that right away. He reads her like a book.

36 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I can't even hate on the sister, because she's right. Franny needs to be with her if Carrie is going to run around unmedicated and hooking up with Dante. And spying.

I hated Carrie for storming out and taking Frannie with her. Frannie obviously loved living with her aunt, uncle, and cousins, and was thriving from having a stable home life. What kind of mother sees their child so happy and well adjusted after the trauma of last season and decides to mess that up again?

42 minutes ago, Pallas said:

I think @chocolatine was right on the money last week: Dante is another Brody, someone of ambiguous allegiances. But this time, he hasn't been turned, despite all the effort to blacken him this ep

 Thank you! I'm not sure that his intentions - with Carrie and otherwise - are entirely benign, but I also don't think it's as cut and dried as him being a Russian spy/collaborator.

Did anyone get the sense that there is/was some kind of romantic relationship between Keane and Wellington? The way he insisted in his resignation letter that Simone "meant nothing" - why would Keane care if their relationship was strictly professional? And obviously Simone didn't "mean nothing" since he's been seeing her for four years.

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

"meant nothing"

Yeah, I caught that too.  Plus, the way Keane re-read it, a couple of times.  She was gutted by that resignation.  Her sole confidant, or something more?

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Carrie needs to give that kid up already.

Carrie needs the job she earned and lost when Keane was reeling at the end of last year. No, she can't be a single mother and work for herself to protect the nation as a free-lance agent. 

 

1 hour ago, WaltersHair said:

Oh, and if the VP was anyone except Bo Bridges, I'd say he wasn't involved. He is so involved.

He so is. At last, an answer to last year's question: "So who's the Veep? Who does the cabal prefer to Keane? Who gets to step in when she steps down?" This entire season's about ambiguous allegiances, as well as families and other partnerships at the breaking point, or beyond. 

I wonder if Dante is bi-polar, and that's one of the reasons he was let go after Kabul. "I don't want to say he was obsessed," said his loyal ex-wife, carefully. The references in the opening credits. 

Another concept that may anchor the season is the idea that the country itself is now bi-polar. Fractured into two seemingly self-contained, irreconcilable realms. And the Lithium is no longer doing the job. Carrie is a lightning rod. It's not that her meds weren't working; it's that they aren't the right remedy for what ails her, or us.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Did anyone get the sense that there is/was some kind of romantic relationship between Keane and Wellington?

I did. And I'm pretty sure there was a line in his letter to her that hinted as much -- I'll have to rewatch to see the exact phrasing.

Franny needs to go the way of Brody's insufferable daughter. Not that Franny is insufferable per se, but I find the presence of kids in this show annoying. 

[dwmarch]

54 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Yeah, I caught that too.  Plus, the way Keane re-read it, a couple of times.  She was gutted by that resignation.  Her sole confidant, or something more?

I read it as Wellington has some feelings for the POTUS that are entirely unrequited. His letter was basically a confession that he's in love with her and she didn't let him say it because that's the last thing she needs to be dealing with right now.

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

I've arrived at a system that makes this show 100 percent better. Any scene with Franny or Carrie's sister, I FF through. The rest is good stuff.

So Dante's conclusion after seeing Carrie was investigating him was ... To bang her? Does that mean he doesn't suspect she suspects?

You're not missing anything because it's the same conversation over and over to the point where they hung a lampshade on it in this episode. Carrie's sister says "Carrie, you're a shitty mother and a terrible person" and Carrie snits back "Well I don't like your face!" and storms off. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Dante did find Carrie's printout of his LinkedIn profile (or something similar) so he knows Carrie is checking into him but since she is paranoid and obsessive it follows that she would do so. I think like an FBI agent would do, he's building a case before making any assumptions. Also, he wanted to get laid.

[Joimiaroxeu]

TMW you're having sex with a guy you believe is a double agent for the Russians, while your young impressionable child is sleeping only a few feet away, and some agents bust in and catch you in flagrante delicto, and they drag the guy away naked with his little Dante flapping in breeze.

Quote

Franny digs him. Franny gets it. "Mommy?  Mommy...Mommy! Don't."  

That's when I started thinking maybe Dante isn't a villain. I doubt they would have Frannie sort of taking his side against Carrie otherwise. Being around Carrie has probably made her hypervigilant for potentially troublesome behavior. She likely would've sensed it if Dante was being duplicitous in some vaguely harmful way that a kid could perceive even if they couldn't specifically define it.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Joimiaroxeu

[Pallas]

14 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

I read it as Wellington has some feelings for the POTUS that are entirely unrequited. His letter was basically a confession that he's in love with her and she didn't let him say it because that's the last thing she needs to be dealing with right now.

Wellington's second letter said he has "true feelings" for the POTUS, and she didn't let him say it, but neither did she let him resign. Was this only his way of securing his job; was this merely, only his way of securing his job, or is he in fact in cahoots with at least one member of the opposition? I'm beginning to think there are at least two separate, active plots against Keane -- one Russian, one domestic -- and that Wellington is, in fact, tied to the latter. Another reason he was gobsmacked to hear about the Russian action, and how he was implicated.

Saul told Max that he took down the surveillance in Wellington's house. I wonder if Saul told a fib.

[scrb]

This episode made me remember one of the earlier seasons, where Saul impugned Carrie's rep publicly, in Congressional testimony wasn't it?

But they were playing a game.  Yet Carrie's cover was blown and you wonder how she could continue to work, even if she hadn't been humiliated.

The current nominee for CIA director was under cover, running a torture site overseas.  But now her secret is out in the open.  Obviously she will never run covert ops any more.

 

So how is it that Carrie, after that congressional testimony, continued to work?  She was in Kabul, Berlin, etc. since that season.

How convenient that Carrie left a lot of sensitive materials at her sister's place for Dante to rifle through.

 

Even if Dante isn't a villain, he should beware.  At least two of the men whom Carrie "the black widow" Mathison previously banged are dead now. There may be others I can't recall right now.

Edited March 26, 2018 by scrb

[Bannon]

I fast forward through all scenes pertaining to Carrie's domestic life as well, but then the writers have to give me a crucial scene that has Dante and Frannie in it. Ugh. Too bad, because there is some good stuff in this season.

[Bannon]

I think not having Dante be flipped by the Russians at this point would be a writing mistake. If the writers end up putting these two in a real relationship, my eyes might roll so hard that I go blind.

[Pallas]

37 minutes ago, scrb said:

So how is it that Carrie, after that congressional testimony, continued to work?  She was in Kabul, Berlin, etc. since that season.

How convenient that Carrie left a lot of sensitive materials at her sister's place for Dante to rifle through.

In season 4, Carrie was in Kabul as CIA Station Chief, not undercover. That was her last CIA job. In season 5 she was working in Berlin for Otto During's foundation; in season 6, in New York for the detainees' rights organization (and on the downlow as an intelligence advisor to Keane). At the end of season 6, she was hired by Keane to act as the Administration's liaison to the intelligence agencies, and almost immediately fired, by Wellington.

Of course she does like to keep up with her hobbies.

All Carrie had in view in her room was an online profile of Dante, and the map of E-Z-Cash locations.

[TrininisaScorp]

Carrie, Carrie, Carrie...can we just go ahead and apply the usual rule to Dante?  "If Carrie is into him, he's probably a hell nah."    The other rule, of course, being "If he is a nice guy, Carrie is going to surely destroy his life."

Dante was both a bit scary and a bit sexy in that scene at the end, but I don't understand the discussion re: her discussion with his ex.  [OT shallow] Yo, dude that plays Dante has a very nice torso...geez...hiding the goodies under all those suits. [/end OT shallow]

Jesus, Carrie, do better with Franny.  She needs stability and routine, not to worry about where her mom is and if/when she comes home.  Her sister can be annoying, but she's totally right.  Taking that child to Dante's place was really risky.  

Saul's aggravation with Carrie's ass is very similar to my aggravation with Carrie.  I miss Carrie having Quinn to help her hold her shit to together.  Frankly (as I've mentioned in every post I've posted this season), I just miss Quinn's presence.  It isn't the same without him.

I do appreciate the pieces are slowly coming together and how much Saul is in his element.  

[crookedjackson44]

Am I the only one who, when Carrie went to the motel, thought we might see Dana in her maid's uniform moving from room to room?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I totally get that Carrie's sister was worried about her because she was out all night. That is an understandably worrisome thing, especially knowing that Carrie's therapist wants to switch her meds and she hasn't done so yet. But why would her sister worry Franny by telling this CHILD that she doesn't know where her mom is? I know she was all about "we don't lie to our children" at the beginning of the season, but there's nothing wrong with telling a kid, "Your mom is working late tonight." There's being honest with a kid and there's keeping a kid from being unnecessarily worried about her mother.

For the record, I totally agree with Carrie's sister that Carrie is a mess. Carrie was wrong to get mad and drag Franny out of a home where she feels safe with people who love her and are around to feed her meals regularly and take care of her. Yes, Carrie loves Franny. I don't doubt that. But that doesn't mean I think that Carrie is being a responsible parent right now. What was Carrie going to do after taking Franny to a motel? Have one of her guys babysit Franny at the motel while she was out running ops in the middle of the night?

Carrie's judgment is clearly impaired if she thinks it's a good idea to potentially put her daughter's life at risk by staying with Dante, who she now thinks is an enemy, just so she can snoop through his stuff. I guess it never occurred to her that he might try to use this opportunity to snoop through her stuff. And even worse, after she talked to Dante's ex and found out that not only did he lie about a bunch of stuff but that he was bitter and obsessed with her, she still went back to his place. WTF, Carrie?

When that guy grabbed Max, all I could think was NOOOOOOO!!!!

I laughed when the VP came into the Oval Office with his big dramatic speech and then Keane said, "Let's just talk like normal people." I also wanted to high five her when she said that she wasn't going to comment on a TMZ video. That's the most sensible thing she (or anyone else for that matter) has said or done all season.

I was not expecting Wellington's resignation or his confession that he's been in love with Keane. Poor Keane though. The look on her face was clearly "I do not need to deal with your unrequited love right now. I have actual problems to deal with!"

If there's anything more embarrassing than getting caught making out when you're in high school, it's being caught fucking by your father figure and a bunch of dudes with guns when you're an adult. AWKWARD.

ETA: I laughed every time I saw the episode title last week!

Edited March 26, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[SuprSuprElevated]

7 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I read it as Wellington has some feelings for the POTUS that are entirely unrequited. His letter was basically a confession that he's in love with her and she didn't let him say it because that's the last thing she needs to be dealing with right now.

Okay, so an opposite but totally feasible explanation!  ~sigh~  I'm so confused.

[AmyBre]

Carrie is bipolar and she's also brilliant.  A bipolar person can be super caring and at the same time, detach from the she doesn't care about in a matter of seconds.  You need to know about Autism and those mental disorders to understand how someone could devote themselves to a task until it consumes them, but also be a loving mother or a great father.   Carrie has no malice and all those people (Saul especially know that, despite her methods, she means well)

The people who truly know her (Saul, Sister, Max Piotrowsky, Quinn) also love her and sometimes you love someone so much, that you accept them 100% automaticaly and without question, and forgive them over and over.  This is also the case of certain mothers and children who they forgive after they have fallen to drug/alcohol addition.

You can't just turn off the love you feel for someone just because they piss you off.  Even if they do it over and over.  You may think that this constant forgiveness just enables the person to continue fucking up, but it's much more complicated than that.

Part of you knows that in their heart of hearts, they are good people.

By the way, Claire Daines is introducing the concept of Autism not only in Homeland, but also in other movies she is also exec producting (Temple Grandin).  As the child of an autistic mother, the parent of an autistic kid and the spouse of autistic person, I know that look in Saul's eyes and I applaud Ms. Daines for educating people.

[Milburn Stone]

34 minutes ago, AmyBre said:

Carrie is bipolar and she's also brilliant.  A bipolar person can be super caring and at the same time, detach from the she doesn't care about in a matter of seconds.  You need to know about Autism and those mental disorders to understand how someone could devote themselves to a task until it consumes them, but also be a loving mother or a great father.   Carrie has no malice and all those people (Saul especially know that, despite her methods, she means well)

The people who truly know her (Saul, Sister, Max Piotrowsky, Quinn) also love her and sometimes you love someone so much, that you accept them 100% automaticaly and without question, and forgive them over and over.  This is also the case of certain mothers and children who they forgive after they have fallen to drug/alcohol addition.

You can't just turn off the love you feel for someone just because they piss you off.  Even if they do it over and over.  You may think that this constant forgiveness just enables the person to continue fucking up, but it's much more complicated than that.

Part of you knows that in their heart of hearts, they are good people.

By the way, Claire Daines is introducing the concept of Autism not only in Homeland, but also in other movies she is also exec producting (Temple Grandin).  As the child of an autistic mother, the parent of an autistic kid and the spouse of autistic person, I know that look in Saul's eyes and I applaud Ms. Daines for educating people.

I already "liked" this post but I just had to say how awesome it is.

[EtheltoTillie]

I'm back to being confused. Still, the episode had me on the edge of my seat. 

[attica]

Eagle-eyed viewers will have recognized the motel desk person as Vickie Eng, who played the Gadget Mistress W for Alton Brown during all the years of Good Eats. Honestly, her voice struck me before her face, since W was usually glammed up.

There may be an interesting program about the travails of a bipolar mother, but shoehorned in to a spy v spy thriller just isn't its place. The repetition of the same scene over and over is tedious in the extreme.

[Milburn Stone]

1 minute ago, attica said:

There may be an interesting program about the travails of a bipolar mother, but shoehorned in to a spy v spy thriller just isn't its place. The repetition of the same scene over and over is tedious in the extreme.

Part of me feels that way too, but in the case of last night, the scene was necessary in order to get to a point where Carrie was desperate enough to go live with Dante, which set up his opportunity to search her room and confirm she was spying on him, her opportunity to search his apartment some more, his opportunity to confront her with why she talked to his ex-wife, etc. So IMO it wasn't exactly shoehorned, it was necessary to set up the spy vs. spy.

And I have to feel grateful, because the mirror-image sequence in which Dante was rifling through her room while she was rifling through his room was such an amusing evocation of the original Spy vs. Spy in Mad.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

1 hour ago, AmyBre said:

By the way, Claire Daines is introducing the concept of Autism not only in Homeland, but also in other movies she is also exec producting (Temple Grandin).  As the child of an autistic mother, the parent of an autistic kid and the spouse of autistic person, I know that look in Saul's eyes and I applaud Ms. Daines for educating people.

Are you trying to say that we’re supposed to view Carrie as an autistic character? I don’t see that. 

[jrlr]

40 minutes ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Are you trying to say that we’re supposed to view Carrie as an autistic character? I don’t see that. 

I don't either, and when I read the post mentioning autism I was wondering if I completely missed something very important.  Has autim even been mentioned?  I thought the show was dealing with Carrie being bi-polar, not autistic.  Have to say Claire Danes does a scarily convincing job of conveying bi-polar disorder. 

[LGGirl]

I just enjoyed seeing Sal cleaning up Carrie’s mess and being on top of things, for once.  

JMPO, I never got why they even made Carrie a mother in this show. Brining kids on most shows do not enhance the plot lines. Just leave Franny with Carrie’s sister permanently and call it a day.  

[WaltersHair]

Have been mulling over the idea that Dante is a good guy, not  a bad guy. If he is a good guy, then the ex-wife must be the bad guy because someone is lying in that old coupling.

[scrb]

Dante was married and somehow became obsessed with Carrie and was stalking her in Kabul while she was station chief there?

That sounds bizarre.

In the first episode of the season, he looked like he was sick of her.  She was the one calling him and he was trying to avoid her wack ideas.

[teddysmom]

Did Carrie not think the ex wife would call Dante?  No of course not she doesn't think anything thru. 

Like dragging your daughter to the US Treasury offices and just hoping she doesn't get up and wander over with "Mommy!!" 

Did I see a shout out to Butler University on the ex's resume?  Go Bulldogs (hometown team). 

So we're recycling "Carrie will sleep with a maybe double agent and get the info out of him" plot? 

She's bipolar and maybe manic depressive, but not autistic. IIRC

[Bannon]

17 minutes ago, LGGirl said:

I just enjoyed seeing Sal cleaning up Carrie’s mess and being on top of things, for once.  

JMPO, I never got why they even made Carrie a mother in this show. Brining kids on most shows do not enhance the plot lines. Just leave Franny with Carrie’s sister permanently and call it a day.  

Yeah, the bipolar story arc would have been better executed, I think, if they had never produced offspring of Carrie and Brody. It just has produced too many of the same scene, over and over. Maybe that is one reason why I liked the seasons in Kabul and Germany so much more than last year.

[slowpoked]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Carrie's judgment is clearly impaired if she thinks it's a good idea to potentially put her daughter's life at risk by staying with Dante, who she now thinks is an enemy, just so she can snoop through his stuff. I guess it never occurred to her that he might try to use this opportunity to snoop through her stuff. And even worse, after she talked to Dante's ex and found out that not only did he lie about a bunch of stuff but that he was bitter and obsessed with her, she still went back to his place. WTF, Carrie?

 

This. Carrie operates with a tunnel vision, and when she saw an opening, she didn't think about other factors and just decided to take it. Earlier in the episode, she was sort of resigned to the fact she or her team won't be able to pull off what they did again, going through Dante's stuff. When he invited her over, she probably couldn't believe her dumb luck, Frannie's safety be damned. 

 

18 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

Dante was both a bit scary and a bit sexy in that scene at the end, but I don't understand the discussion re: her discussion with his ex.  [OT shallow] Yo, dude that plays Dante has a very nice torso...geez...hiding the goodies under all those suits. [/end OT shallow]

Seriously! I thought he was going to strangle Carrie the way he looked so intensely at her and as he moved towards her. I guess there's enough room for angry sex before you out each other. 

I'm glad this season is finally picking up. The last two episodes have certainly upped the ante. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by slowpoked

[attica]

I do not mind repeated exposures to Dante's tattooed back, just sayin'.

[DFWGina]

14 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I hated Carrie for storming out and taking Frannie with her. Frannie obviously loved living with her aunt, uncle, and cousins, and was thriving from having a stable home life. What kind of mother sees their child so happy and well adjusted after the trauma of last season and decides to mess that up again?

14 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Carrie needs to give that kid up already. Far too many late-night raids for one childhood. Having Carrie get knocked up by a terrorist, and keep the baby, and raise her horribly, is by far the worst misstep in this show's history. And yes, I'm remembering the other missteps. This is the one that's bugged me the most.

I feel really bad for Frannie in all of this and I can't get the scene from a few seasons ago when she almost drowned her out of my head when they show them together.  She really is basically unfit to be a full time mom to her.

14 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Did anyone get the sense that there is/was some kind of romantic relationship between Keane and Wellington? The way he insisted in his resignation letter that Simone "meant nothing" - why would Keane care if their relationship was strictly professional? And obviously Simone didn't "mean nothing" since he's been seeing her for four years.

12 hours ago, Pallas said:

Wellington's second letter said he has "true feelings" for the POTUS, and she didn't let him say it, but neither did she let him resign. Was this only his way of securing his job; was this merely, only his way of securing his job, or is he in fact in cahoots with at least one member of the opposition? I'm beginning to think there are at least two separate, active plots against Keane -- one Russian, one domestic -- and that Wellington is, in fact, tied to the latter. Another reason he was gobsmacked to hear about the Russian action, and how he was implicated.

Saul told Max that he took down the surveillance in Wellington's house. I wonder if Saul told a fib.

Yeah I definitely got the vibe that either they already were a couple having an affair or he wanted to have one with her or SOMETHING was in the works....

And no way did Saul take down the surveillance.  I am sure he just redirected it to his team to view!

[scrb]

They use the kid when it's a convenient way to show how much of a burden our heroine has while she's trying to save the world.

Of course a little girl shouldn't be seen as a burden but she's just as much an obstacle as Jack Bauer's daughter was on 24.

[preeya]

2 hours ago, LGGirl said:

I just enjoyed seeing Sal cleaning up Carrie’s mess and being on top of things, for once.  

JMPO, I never got why they even made Carrie a mother in this show. Brining kids on most shows do not enhance the plot lines. Just leave Franny with Carrie’s sister permanently and call it a day.  

1

This may happen next week. In the preview, it looks as if the sister is filing for custody.

ETA: Likely to be a lot of cryfaces.

Edited March 26, 2018 by preeya

[roughing it]

Some women are better suited to be an Aunt - pop in, give presents, pop out again.  Carrie should have passed custody to her sister when Frannie was born.

[teddysmom]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Of course a little girl shouldn't be seen as a burden but she's just as much an obstacle as Jack Bauer's daughter was on 24.

Maybe they can find a cougar....

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

They use the kid when it's a convenient way to show how much of a burden our heroine has while she's trying to save the world.

Of course a little girl shouldn't be seen as a burden but she's just as much an obstacle as Jack Bauer's daughter was on 24.

Yeah, the kid is just a lazy plot device, deployed by the writers, to ratchet up.....DRAMATIC CONFLICT.....whenever deemed necessary. That almost always is how small children in heavily serialized drama are used, in part because it is so rare that a small child actor can be so skilled as to give compelling insight into a fictional character. Which is why screen time for small child actors is usually a bad sign for quality writing, and why  I usually fast forward through such scenes.

8 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Maybe they can find a cougar....

It is a problem when any character older than 8 is still acting like a moron.

[crookedjackson44]

Whenever I see a Carrie sex scene comin on, I hit fast forward.  Ewww.

[Quark]

Good episode, but I'm rapidly losing sympathy for Carrie.

I feel terrible for Frannie, I just want to hug the poor girl.

[riverheightsnancy]

I have a hard time liking Frannie, because I think the child actor is very poor. How old is she supposed to be? It only makes sense that she leave Frannie with her sister and move out because she has done that before. Carrie's sister (she is a psychiatrist-right?) should know better. The situation is too co-dependent and enmeshed. Again, she knows better. All she does is bitch at Carrie. I get it, Carrie's bipolar is very challenging. I have dealt with patients that were so erratic as well, but she gives her no credit for when she is doing things correctly. She hovers and nags. her sister is making things worse, because she cannot actually admit that she wants Carrie out. 

[scrb]

I guess the title is suppose to be a joke.  Andante is a slower tempo in opera and then with the word play wth his name, Carrie is rushing to bang him, not slow-playing it.

 

As for Frannie, you'd think she'd occasionally think about Brody, being reminded of him every time she looks at Franny.  After all, he rocked her world didn't he?  She won Golden Globes in those early seasons and maybe Emmies?  Some of it was from doing her sour face while she was going through it with Brody.

[Tom2008]

17 hours ago, AmyBre said:

Carrie is bipolar and she's also brilliant.  A bipolar person can be super caring and at the same time, detach from the she doesn't care about in a matter of seconds.  You need to know about Autism and those mental disorders to understand how someone could devote themselves to a task until it consumes them, but also be a loving mother or a great father.   Carrie has no malice and all those people (Saul especially know that, despite her methods, she means well)

The people who truly know her (Saul, Sister, Max Piotrowsky, Quinn) also love her and sometimes you love someone so much, that you accept them 100% automaticaly and without question, and forgive them over and over.  This is also the case of certain mothers and children who they forgive after they have fallen to drug/alcohol addition.

You can't just turn off the love you feel for someone just because they piss you off.  Even if they do it over and over.  You may think that this constant forgiveness just enables the person to continue fucking up, but it's much more complicated than that.

Part of you knows that in their heart of hearts, they are good people.

By the way, Claire Daines is introducing the concept of Autism not only in Homeland, but also in other movies she is also exec producting (Temple Grandin).  As the child of an autistic mother, the parent of an autistic kid and the spouse of autistic person, I know that look in Saul's eyes and I applaud Ms. Daines for educating people.

Autism has nothing to do with Bipolar Illness. They are completely seperate illnesses.

The person posting this is unfamiliar with psychological diagnoses and the DSM V.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Carrie's sister (she is a psychiatrist-right?)

All I remember them saying is that she's a doctor but I don't think they've ever specified what kind of doctor she is.

8 hours ago, scrb said:

Andante is a slower tempo in opera

Not just opera! It's used in all music. I learned terms like andante, adagio, and allegro when I started taking pianos lessons when I was five years old. Many of those terms are also used in ballet.

In addition to the translation, it's pronounced "on dante" so another level of funny in the title.

[Duke2801]

21 hours ago, AmyBre said:

Carrie is bipolar and she's also brilliant.  A bipolar person can be super caring and at the same time, detach from the she doesn't care about in a matter of seconds.  You need to know about Autism and those mental disorders to understand how someone could devote themselves to a task until it consumes them, but also be a loving mother or a great father.   Carrie has no malice and all those people (Saul especially know that, despite her methods, she means well)

The people who truly know her (Saul, Sister, Max Piotrowsky, Quinn) also love her and sometimes you love someone so much, that you accept them 100% automaticaly and without question, and forgive them over and over.  This is also the case of certain mothers and children who they forgive after they have fallen to drug/alcohol addition.

You can't just turn off the love you feel for someone just because they piss you off.  Even if they do it over and over.  You may think that this constant forgiveness just enables the person to continue fucking up, but it's much more complicated than that.

Part of you knows that in their heart of hearts, they are good people.

By the way, Claire Daines is introducing the concept of Autism not only in Homeland, but also in other movies she is also exec producting (Temple Grandin).  As the child of an autistic mother, the parent of an autistic kid and the spouse of autistic person, I know that look in Saul's eyes and I applaud Ms. Daines for educating people.

Did you mean “bipolar” when you said autism”? Because they’ve never once hinted or indicated that Carrie is autistic.

Agree that Franny is an unnecessary (and sometimes annoying) plot device. Carrie is not cut out to be a mother. Love is NOT enough to raise a child.