S06.E01: Dead Hand

[minamurray78]

Well, I imagine while the kids were growing up, P & E biggest concern must have been looking like a completely boring regular american family. Specially in front of the kids, so they don´t go babbling to classmates or teachers about how their parents do weird things like wear wigs or pick locks or speak Russian. No, i think this 2° generation biggest asset is being born and raised american. And I do get the value about Paige learning some basic spying shit, but it´s risky. Lets say there´s trouble some day, she gets arrested or something. She may get away with explaining a fake ID, or sitting in a car for hours, but that would be a smudge. Stupid an insignificant but still, an unnecessary risk for an operative that could get into places where none of the others can´t. A career in the military, or a college degree and later on the CIA or the FBI, is where they should want her. It´s what she can do that her mother never could.

My money is on Renee spying on Stan alright but not for the russians, but for the Americans. The government decided to keep tabs on an agent that got real chummy with russians rather than put him in jail or fire him for the close calls he´s had. Renee would be like an american Elizabeth.

Edited April 3, 2018 by minamurray78

[Pink-n-Green]

27 minutes ago, minamurray78 said:

My money is on Renee spying on Stan alright but not for the russians, but for the Americans. The government decided to keep tabs on an agent that got real chummy with russians rather than put him in jail or fire him for the close calls he´s had. Renee would be like an american Elizabeth.

I don't know how, but that idea never occurred to me.  I like it!

[Umbelina]

38 minutes ago, minamurray78 said:

Well, I imagine while the kids were growing up, P & E biggest concern must have been looking like a completely boring regular american family. Specially in front of the kids, so they don´t go babbling to classmates or teachers about how their parents do weird things like wear wigs or pick locks or speak Russian. No, i think this 2° generation biggest asset is being born and raised american. And I do get the value about Paige learning some basic spying shit, but it´s risky. Lets say there´s trouble some day, she gets arrested or something. She may get away with explaining a fake ID, or sitting in a car for hours, but that would be a smudge. Stupid an insignificant but still, an unnecessary risk for an operative that could get into places where none of the others can´t. A career in the military, or a college degree and later on the CIA or the FBI, is where they should want her. It´s what she can do that her mother never could.

My money is on Renee spying on Stan alright but not for the russians, but for the Americans. The government decided to keep tabs on an agent that got real chummy with russians rather than put him in jail or fire him for the close calls he´s had. Renee would be like an american Elizabeth.

 

I agree with all of this.  Elizabeth could easily train Paige AWAY from the action.  She could use her other minor agents in disguises or simply have her randomly walk through malls and restaurants (on the way to a bathroom, etc.) and come back and report on all she saw.  "Where was the blond sitting, which earrings did the redhead have on, what about the shoes on the portly man in the corner, what did the waitress's name tag say and what color was it, what did the couple in flip flops order, how long was the older woman in the green coat in the bathroom?  Or, "lose me when I follow you."

Maybe she has.  Maybe she thought it was time to train her in something real though.  Hard to say with that damn time jump.

Also, yes, I've always thought Renee could be spying on Stan for the Americans or the Russians, but I honestly can't see an American spy agreeing to live with her mark, so that makes me think Russian.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Umbelina

[whiporee]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

Gosh, just a scene at some point, with Paige watching a documentary, with footage showing people shot dead as they try to get over the Berlin Wall, and Paige asking "Mom, if communism is superior, why do communist governments have to kill people for trying to leave?" Instead, they've pretty much just written her as largely credulous to whatever her mommy says about politics, which is not a sign of intelligence.

I complained about it two seasons ago they they completely omitted KAL 007. I always thought that had they shown that, Paige could have not ever been turned, because it was such a horrific and unapologetic act. I would have liked to have seen the scenes where P&E talked about it themselves and tried to justify it to each other, but the showrunners decided, I think, that reliving that bit of history would have made everything else a harder sell. 

[minamurray78]

Damn, that time jump went right over Chernobyl.

Ever since that episode where the centre tells P & E them that the propeller blueprints they had stolen were fakes, killing a bunch of russian sailors, and how murderous Elizabeth was, only to hear Oleg and Arkady over at the Rezidentura talk about how their navy was to blame for putting the propeller in a sub twice as big as the one it was designed for after only testing it for a few weeks rather than the 5 months it was required, I was hoping to see Chernobyl go down in front of their eyes, and hear what lies Claudia would feed them, and what kind of mental gymnastics they would perform in order to buy it.

[Kathemy]

With the way this is going, Philip is a dead man. He won't survive. I think Elizabeth will. Narratively speaking I think her getting the suicide pill means she's safe.

[Sarah 103]

4 hours ago, minamurray78 said:

Damn, that time jump went right over Chernobyl.

I had totally forgotten about that. I was really looking forward to seeing everyone's reaction to it as well, especially Oleg's. 

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I had totally forgotten about that. I was really looking forward to seeing everyone's reaction to it as well, especially Oleg's. 

I remembered it only after watching Jeopardy this week, where it was a clue.

[RedHawk]

On 3/31/2018 at 1:41 AM, Cthulhudrew said:

Phillip has both of those. He brought the cd player with him and put it in the car. The car phone is located down by the parking brake. 

The entire concept of the Dead Hand program just seems so ludicrously petty. Sad to think that people in power actually think that way. "If they kill us first, by God, we'll kill them all with our dying breath! And take out most of the rest of the planet with us, too!" Oh, silly humans.

So, is the storyline of Phillip's first kid done and gone? Is it going to be revisited this season? I wouldn't mind if it wasn't, except for the fact that it makes the arc from last season seem even more pointless than it did at the time.

I had one of those pull-out CD decks and it was stolen from my car the ONE time I didn't take it out. I was parked on a street near Dupont Circle that was a known place for theft from cars -- and it's not far from the location of the Jennings' travel agency! Phillip -- always take out the deck! I also knew I could have swung it as a self-defense weapon -- it was quite heavy and had sharp metal edges. Perhaps he imagines the same. Hey, I'm spy material! I chalked that loss up to my own stupidity and after that I got one where you took out only the faceplate of the CD player and it came with a small plastic case to carry it in. No good as a weapon though...

I don't think the first episode can cover every storyline so it's likely we'll see young Misha and Phillip's supposed brother and family soon.
 

Edited April 4, 2018 by RedHawk

[RedHawk]

On 3/31/2018 at 4:54 PM, Sarah 103 said:

The Berlin Wall comes down in 89 and the Soviet Union collapses in the early 1990s. I think travel agenency were still viable until the early 2000s when the internet and e-commerce really started to take off in a big way. There's almost an entire decade, maybe closer to 15 years, (1990-2005).

My cousin was a travel agent and worked at it into the late '90s when she changed careers, so Phillip's agency could have continued maybe 10 more years. There are still travel agents, by the way, some work in niches like Disney World trips, etc.

[RedHawk]

On 3/31/2018 at 9:18 PM, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Okay, so, I may be being a) completely anal-retentive about this or b) completely wrong or c) both, but all I could think in those scenes where Paige is walking in that neighborhood with the big modern office building with the number 55 is that as far as I know, there are NO buildings in DC like that which would have double-digit numbers. 

Single and double digit addresses do exist, and I think some are office buildings, especially in the NW quadrant near Union Station. The "unit block" of streets has double digit addresses. DC has a grid system and four quadrants: NW, NE, SW, SE. Where the quadrants begin is the "unit block" where you have double-digit addresses and then you have 1st St, 2nd  St, and C St, D St. etc. where you have triple-digit addresses.

There are a couple of office-type buildings similar to the one Paige parked in front of that are in Glover Park and not far from the Naval Observatory grounds but they're not a match because they're not as tall and they don't film in DC anyway (other than some establishing shots), and yes, their addresses have 4 digits.

[benteen]

Travel agencies were definitely quite viable in the 80s.  I think there's still one in my hometown that is amazingly still in business.

[RedHawk]

I'm wondering how much of a mistake it is for Elizabeth to allow Haskard's invalid wife to make sketches of her. They made me think of the drawings of Phillip and Elizabeth that hang in the safe room at the FBI HQ... 

[Cthulhudrew]

34 minutes ago, benteen said:

Travel agencies were definitely quite viable in the 80s.  I think there's still one in my hometown that is amazingly still in business.

My dad has been using the same travel agent in Indiana for the last quarter decade. I dated a girl who went to work for a travel agency from around 2005 - 2010 or so, and a former coworker has been running a travel agency as a side job for well over a decade. They're still out there, but their heyday is definitely over. 80s and 90s was certainly a peak time for them.

Also- and this is more to the OP who mentioned the end of travel agency's viability would be a loss- there are still so many areas of travel that Phillip could go into that would still be very viable. He could write books, do travel conventions, smaller tour groups and things. He's already shown as moving his people into the "personal experience" mode of selling travel, and that is something that is very much still in demand. Rick Steves' tour groups do this, and are supported by his massive guidebook industry.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

I'm wondering how much of a mistake it is for Elizabeth to allow Haskard's invalid wife to make sketches of her. They made me think of the drawings of Phillip and Elizabeth that hang in the safe room at the FBI HQ... 

Hmmm....me too. Not sure how accurate they are, but, an accidental fire in that room wouldn't surprise me.  After, E completes her mission. 

[Dowel Jones]

Philip's transformation into an American would be complete when he has to file bankruptcy after the failure of the travel agency.  I wonder how the Russian Embassy would handle that?

I have something of a different opinion on the outcome of Paige's encounter with the security officer, and its tragic aftermath.  Perhaps it's too early in her training to advance, but he might have made an excellent dupe for the KGB.  Paige starts dating him, extracting information, and distracting him so that agents could access various secure areas that he was supposedly guarding.   After all, the guard was all too forthcoming with locations of buildings after meeting this unknown woman on a street.  She could basically lead him around by his penis.  For example, google Clayton Lonetree.

[Pink-n-Green]

29 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Hmmm....me too. Not sure how accurate they are, but, an accidental fire in that room wouldn't surprise me.  After, E completes her mission. 

Remember, though, Elizabeth was asleep when Haskard's wife was sketching her so probably Elizabeth has no idea that she's been immortalized in charcoal.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I don't think the first episode can cover every storyline so it's likely we'll see young Misha and Phillip's supposed brother and family soon.

Interesting--do you think the family Mischa met last season was fake?

[Erin9]

2 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

My dad has been using the same travel agent in Indiana for the last quarter decade. I dated a girl who went to work for a travel agency from around 2005 - 2010 or so, and a former coworker has been running a travel agency as a side job for well over a decade. They're still out there, but their heyday is definitely over. 80s and 90s was certainly a peak time for them.

Also- and this is more to the OP who mentioned the end of travel agency's viability would be a loss- there are still so many areas of travel that Phillip could go into that would still be very viable. He could write books, do travel conventions, smaller tour groups and things. He's already shown as moving his people into the "personal experience" mode of selling travel, and that is something that is very much still in demand. Rick Steves' tour groups do this, and are supported by his massive guidebook industry.

 

Agreed. The heyday of travel agencies may end in about a decade, but they’re still around, and he could go into other areas. Really, he’d just need to adapt to change, which he’s good at. 

I used a travel agency for a trip to Europe about a year ago. And it was a very good decision. I’ve also used  Rick Steve’s travel books. Actually- I still like travel books period. They’re very useful. 

57 minutes ago, Pink-n-Green said:

Remember, though, Elizabeth was asleep when Haskard's wife was sketching her so probably Elizabeth has no idea that she's been immortalized in charcoal.

I never think Philip or Elizabeth are that recognizable in their disguises honestly. But, it’s sure not something she’d want imo. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Erin9

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Agreed. The heyday of travel agencies may end in about a decade, but they’re still around, and he could go into other areas. Really, he’d just need to adapt to change, which he’s good at. 

 

And it's not like he's wedded to the travel agent business. It was probably just something he was told to do and he found stuff to be interested in it. 

3 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I never think Philip or Elizabeth are that recognizable in their disguises honestly. But, it’s sure not something she’d want imo. 

Plus, the woman's an artist. It doesn't matter whether she's sketching Elizabeth when she's there. She could dash off a sketch of her any time if she wanted--like if the police asked her to describe her nurse. The sketch she has now might be slightly more accurate than the police sketches....or else not, since she didn't seem to be going for photo realism and it would still include the curly hair and big glasses. The woman was probably more drawing a portrait of exhaustion than a sketch of her nurse.

I don't know if one of those sketches will come into play, but if it doesn't it won't necessarily be about someone else recognizing Elizabeth in it. She was already staring at the woman's haunting pictures (her life is full of sickness and death). It could be just more of a symbolic thing of Elizabeth recognizing the sickness and death present in her own life. Not just the pill around her neck but how she's kind of dead inside, pulling away from family members that are drawn to life etc.

[Chaos Theory]

On 3/31/2018 at 9:04 AM, Tetraneutron said:

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Paige did not bring that creep's behaviour on herself by not being tough enough. Gross men use their power to prey on women from all economic backgrounds. A diner waitress (if you assume that diner waitress = working class and not like many kids from Paige's neighbourhood don't have part-time service jobs, which I don't) is just as vulnerable to creepy men, probably more actually since the kinds of exchanges we saw with Paige and Hanley occur because Hanley could use his power to get what he wanted, and working-class people have less power. Saying it's the kind of behaviour that anyone should have been able to shut down by being cool and sassy enough blames the woman and is commonly used to attack women the person doesn't like or think is deserving. And it had nothing to do with "knowing about" men. You don't think suburban high school girls know about creepy men. For heaven's sake we saw Paige have to deal with a creepy man in the very first episode, when she was an adolescent. In general, acting like men only prey on women who they don't respect, and it's on women to exude this respectability by being some version of tough and cool just excuses the man. 

Also, I think the show was showing us that Paige made a minor rookie mistake, on her first real spy mission. Not good, but low-stakes and not at all the kind of thing that sets her apart from any other trainee. Yeah, Elizabeth probably would have been harsher to someone else, but I really don't think the show is trying to show us that Paige is fundamentally unsuited to spy work. We've seen every major spy character screw up, ways both big and small. 

 

On 3/31/2018 at 12:08 PM, GussieK said:

This was a nice juxtaposition with the previous scene where Paige was watching the movie and was "shocked, shocked" that the Russian men were so domineering, and Claudia said that men "back home" were more "traditional."  What a crock.  First of all, Claudia was going too easy on the Russian men.  But more to the point, men are like this everywhere, and that Navy guy was a perfect example.

I think the first time it happens you are unprepared and you take a beat.  That beat was all that it took for Navy guy to get Paige’s ID.  It wasn’t stupidly or Paige being unsuited it was her being inexperienced.  I just don’t think she ever expected to be treated like that and it took her a minute.  If anything Paige is too sheltered to be a practical spy not dumb or whatever other word has been used to describe her by people who don’t like the character.  Then again I don’t think she handled the situation especially badly.  I think it was Elizabeth who overreacted by killing him.   

[Mrs peel]

20 hours ago, Pink-n-Green said:

I don't know how, but that idea never occurred to me.  I like it!

Renee is the FBI internal affairs officer Phillip claimed to be!

[Mrs peel]

19 hours ago, whiporee said:

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:51 AM, Bannon said:

Gosh, just a scene at some point, with Paige watching a documentary, with footage showing people shot dead as they try to get over the Berlin Wall, and Paige asking "Mom, if communism is superior, why do communist governments have to kill people for trying to leave?" Instead, they've pretty much just written her as largely credulous to whatever her mommy says about politics, which is not a sign of intelligence.

I complained about it two seasons ago they they completely omitted KAL 007. I always thought that had they shown that, Paige could have not ever been turned, because it was such a horrific and unapologetic act. I would have liked to have seen the scenes where P&E talked about it themselves and tried to justify it to each other, but the showrunners decided, I think, that reliving that bit of history would have made everything else a harder sell. 

Well, on both counts I expect Elizabeth would have denied the USSR involvement and the facts.  Footage of people being shot?  Fake news faked photos, faked evidence of Soviet involvement, etc.  And Paige is primed to believe the US lied, based on her involvement with Pastor Tim.

Someone said Elizabeth would respond by talking about redistribution of wealth, the evil of wanting more than others.  While that's the "party line," it doesn't explain why the individuals who fled needed to be killed. 

This also makes me wonder what Paige is studying.  I would guess not history.

[Erin9]

34 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

I think the first time it happens you are unprepared and you take a beat.  That beat was all that it took for Navy guy to get Paige’s ID.  It wasn’t stupidly or Paige being unsuited it was her being inexperienced.  I just don’t think she ever expected to be treated like that and it took her a minute.  If anything Paige is too sheltered to be a practical spy not dumb or whatever other word has been used to describe her by people who don’t like the character.  Then again I don’t think she handled the situation especially badly.  I think it was Elizabeth who overreacted by killing him.   

IDK about that. He had her photo ID. That’s worse than Hans maybe being seen by that SA guy. I sure see why she got the ID back at the very least. All he had to do was get curious when she didn’t show up for the date and start digging. Unlikely, but a risk I can’t imagine Elizabeth taking. 

I think the problem with Paige is she didn’t see how serious the problem was, and Elizabeth didn’t tell her. It’s hard to see how Elizabeth training her own daughter won’t prove to be a mistake. She’s not objective, which is bad for everyone involved. 

[sistermagpie]

36 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

That beat was all that it took for Navy guy to get Paige’s ID.  It wasn’t stupidly or Paige being unsuited it was her being inexperienced.

True, it only took a second for the guy to get her idea and there's no reason she could have assumed he was going to try to keep it. It was a weird move on his part.

But then she let him walk away--even if you think Elizabeth overreacted by killing him, Paige didn't react at all except to dump the problem in her mom's lap. She was the one watching him walk away with her ID.

Sure, plenty of smart people would be equally paralyzed in that situation. But for most of those people it would just be a funny story about some creep being so obnoxious you didn't even know what to say and now you have to get a new ID. Paige was somebody professionally committing treason for a foreign country. Just like when she told Pastor Tim about her parents and then suffered for it, she doesn't have the option of crying inexperience or youth or claiming it's unfair to put this responsibility on her, because the punishment here isn't her getting grounded, it's actual consequences of having her ID out there. Any other spy would have had the same responsibility no matter how long they'd been on the job. They have to be relied on.

Elizabeth obviously knows she can't trust her because she clearly looked at the guy's name tag when she found him, recognized that it was not the name Paige had given her, and then knifed him anyway because in that moment she showed she had no real confidence in Paige's information. 

[SusanSunflower]

Isn't surveillance "bread and butter" novice babysteps? -- training exercise 101 of little jeopardy  with veteran operatives supervising, able to intervene after three (3!) years of "training", Paige's lapse(s) were serious and added not one but two (or 3) layers of more work for Elizabeth -- hiding Paige's error (losing situational awareness and being snuck up on),   hiding the murder from Paige (E. can't pretend Paige did A-ok with a dead body as a result) and likely hiding the murder from the Centre -- oh, and even dealing with her other doubtful-of-Paige operatives  -- all in addition to carrying out and hiding her extra-special (cyanidal) special assignment from everyone ... more bricks on Elizabeth's shoulders (and nothing that she could/would/should share with ... anyone ... ever. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[Umbelina]

Another thought I had, kind of a strange one, but as Elizabeth approached him and was (to me) obviously going to kill him?

If Philip were still in the game, Elizabeth could have called him to come, or he might have even been around helping with surveillance on that job, in disguise.  Why would he being there make such a difference?  He could have just mugged him, got the ID, taken the money as a cover, and let the guy live.  Alternately, he could have mugged him later if he weren't close by, he wouldn't have to kill him, just knock him out.

As I watched Elizabeth approach creepy sailor dude, I very quickly realized she HAD to kill him, because if she let him live, as the victim of some random mugging, WHO wouldn't be suspicious after he told the cops or his C.O.?  Some fairly small attractive older women, all dressed up, easily took down a much larger man in the heart of DC?  NCIS would probably already know about the wanted man and woman, and if not, it would certainly ping enough "WTF?" bells for a call to the FBI, police, etc. about such an odd thing.

Now if Philip did it?  No biggie, most muggers are in fact men.  The sailor might not even tell, but if he did?  Honestly, file that in the circular file.

Anyway, I also wondered if that killing might be another reason that on some level Liz was SO pissed at Philip that night?  "I had to KILL some US Navy Guard, to protect our daughter and our cover, because you are no where around anymore, and if you were, you could have just mugged him, you asshole!"

Edited April 4, 2018 by Umbelina

[SusanSunflower]

I think she was outraged with Philip because she couldn't tell him anything about it, because that would be admitting Paige screwed up and that she might well have handled the situation badly (don't forget she too might have attempted to seduce the sailor (in suitable disguise) taken him somewhere "private" (a parked car maybe) and much less bizarrely killed him (more street crime, less OMG randomly stabbed with great force and viciousness in the neck) ... Personally, I don't think a mugger would choose that guy ... setting it up as maybe a killing by an angry woman he knew and had had sex with ... maybe ... (particularly if he was a known horndog) 

[Umbelina]

A mugger might have, maybe the mugger was homeless and all that Chinese Food in the bags smelled delicious.  Ha.

A MALE mugger, not some petite, obviously not homeless, older woman.

I'm sure Elizabeth did consider the whole seduce and roll him thing, she didn't have the time, and she would still have to kill him, because THEN he could identify BOTH Paige and Liz. 

That was the biggest issue, this wasn't Hans, this was her daughter, and her daughters photo could lead the FBI directly to HER.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

A MALE mugger, not some petite, obviously not homeless, older woman.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of this at all but whether or not they intended this idea, it's really logical. Philip's fake-mugged people before. He could have chosen whatever persona he thought would make sense (junkie, person having a psychotic episode, whatever) and either mugged him like a robber or attacked him and knocked him out and taken just enough out of his wallet to cover up that he was looking for the ID. 

Philip seemed to get the brunt of *all* of Elizabeth's frustrations in the ep, none of which she could share with anybody else. She had to be stoic and capable for Claudia, Mommy protecting and encouraging Paige, fake nurse on the job, steely spy in Mexico City, sex partner in the hotel room, pleasant neighbor to the dinner party. There was probably a million things she was resenting Philip for when she came in, and easily some of them could have been him not being there to help the way he always would have been in the past--as husband, partner and parent. 

I wonder if that's the first thing in Elizabeth that will break, her needing Philip's help with work whether it's just to talk about or to help clean something up. Little knowing that he has his own reasons for wanting to know what's going on with her besides his genuine concern for her. 

I wonder, now I think about it, what his original pitch was going to be to her there. He's gotten the info from Oleg that Elizabeth is either being used against Gorbachev or is willingly acting against him. When she comes in he says that her telling him to quit was great advice and she's clearly crumbling and he was thinking...

That's when she cuts him off. So it seems like maybe his first instinct was to try to get them all out (again) in some way. Or maybe it wasn't that black and white. Can't know for sure, I guess.

[Umbelina]

I was thinking "Elizabeth must be super pissed at Philip for not being here to easily handle this" AS it was happening, during that walk towards the sailor dude, at the same moment I was thinking "oh crap, she has to kill him, if Philip were there, he wouldn't have to."

I think Philip was going to spill everything to her.  They've never lied to each other about their real jobs.  I think his natural instinct would have been to continue that honesty.

Glad she cut him off, because I don't want Oleg dead...or in prison.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

6 hours ago, RedHawk said:

had one of those pull-out CD decks and it was stolen from my car the ONE time I didn't take it out. I was parked on a street near Dupont Circle that was a known place for theft from cars -- and it's not far from the location of the Jennings' travel agency! Phillip -- always take out the deck! I also knew I could have swung it as a self-defense weapon -- it was quite heavy and had sharp metal edges

Heavy with sharp metal edges for sure ... I had one as well and when I got into a car crash on the FDR (NYC), the third car in a five-car pile-up, it flew right off the casters into my knee. That hurt more than the concussion from hitting my head on the rear-view mirror (though the latter had MUCH longer after-effects). Totaled my poor sweet Chevy Citation (hey, laugh if you will, but I loved that car). 

5 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Single and double digit addresses do exist, and I think some are office buildings, especially in the NW quadrant near Union Station. The "unit block" of streets has double digit addresses. DC has a grid system and four quadrants: NW, NE, SW, SE. Where the quadrants begin is the "unit block" where you have double-digit addresses and then you have 1st St, 2nd  St, and C St, D St. etc. where you have triple-digit addresses.

There are a couple of office-type buildings similar to the one Paige parked in front of that are in Glover Park and not far from the Naval Observatory grounds but they're not a match because they're not as tall and they don't film in DC anyway (other than some establishing shots), and yes, their addresses have 4 digits.

Thank you for the enlightenment! Despite having lived in the general DC suburbs since 1989, I clearly do not venture into the city as much as I could/should!

[dubbel zout]

5 hours ago, Pink-n-Green said:

Remember, though, Elizabeth was asleep when Haskard's wife was sketching her so probably Elizabeth has no idea that she's been immortalized in charcoal.

All the woman does is sketch, though, so if Elizabeth isn’t aware of that, she’s seriously dropping the ball.

[SusanSunflower]

Those sketches wouldn't be there if they did not figure in the future story (and likely call back to those other sketches of P&E seen by Stan, irrc).  There will be more sketches by this woman and I'm guessing in the future some more witness sketches.  My gut reaction was that they were playing into Elizabeth's growing paranoia (exhaustion and PTSD can help trigger this). 

Again, did she really need to kill the sailor?  Was the information on the fake ID somehow "breadcrumbs" that would lead back to her or Paige or the operation or was she scrubbing the possibiilty in an OCD sort of way? 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the possible side-effect of the murder bringing even more detectives/cops who -- in searching for the murderer and/or witnesses  -- disrupt or observe and recognize the surveillance.  If the sailor had not walked away with Paige's fake ID, would she have needed to be taken off the surveillance routine simply because he might well recognize her or her car in the vicinity in the future and realize he'd seen her before.  People suddenly hanging out in cars for no reason (watching the road) or a sudden increase in coffee shop business of customers taking an hour over a cup of coffee also might "ping" someone's radar as odd happenings, depending.  Can't wait to find out what happens next. 

[Umbelina]

The sailor's murder will definitely be investigated by NCIS, local cops, and possibly even the FBI.  I'm not sure about the FBI, because I don't know their rules about a serviceman being murdered, especially on US soil, but I'd think they would at least be notified. 

Yes, it was much less of a risk to murder him than let Paige's photo float around, and Elizabeth didn't really have good options, though she would have if Philip was still on the job, a mugging would have worked for him.

There is no reason they would have that woman endlessly sketching Elizabeth if it doesn't play into something, not necessarily the expected thing.  Yes, she tends to paint in abstract reality fantasy, but she's obviously very talented.  She could easily paint a realistic Elizabeth, and what's more, from all angles.  She has an artist's eye.  One thing that pops out of me is that she would DEFINITELY notice the mole on Elizabeth's lip.  Make up or no make up, that's something she would see.

That's kind of huge really  She's beat, make up wears off a bit after a long day, and the artist would notice the slight bump even under make up, but my bet is, she's seen it.  Elizabeth leans over her to help with pillows, or food, meds, etc.  She's been VERY close.

So, obviously, have Stan and Renee, possibly even Aderholt.

I still say, as I've said from the very beginning of this show?  There is no way the KGB wouldn't have removed that thing while she was still in the USSR.  That kind of identifying mark is dangerous in her line of work.

ETA the curly hair and glasses wouldn't help, if the FBI was looking at it.  They've already discussed the glasses, wigs, and disguises used by the KGB several times on the show.  They'd be looking at the face, not the hair, for identity.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Umbelina
g not k

[JFParnell]

3 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

Renee is the FBI internal affairs officer Phillip claimed to be!

Renee is a real-life Clark (keep wanting to call him Griswold)! There's certainly a chance that's what Renee is, yeah. Stan has ruffled enough feathers to raise some alarms. Enough for them to watch out for him. But I dunno ... ?? ... wouldn't they just surveil him from a distance, rather than go to the step of planting someone in his life? If they think he's a security risk, don't they just kick him to the curb rather than send him Laurie Holden? On the other hand, as someone alluded to way upthread, do you hire a fairly well known Walking Dead alum to be nothing but a head fake (my theory and I'm clinging to it! lol) who likes racquetball? Perhaps we will learn more tonight!

[sistermagpie]

I think the photo id is important for more than just this job. You don't want Paige starting her spy career by dropping this kind of thing, a KGB issued fake ID a military guy took from her while she was waiting for work. Paige would quickly forget about it but Elizabeth wouldn't. I honestly think if this was any other recruit Philip, at leadt, would be in the same mode he was in with Lucia and Kate.  

[Umbelina]

http://kerirussellweb.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=90714&fullsize=1

To really enlarge it to life sized, use the link above.  The mole, while covered, is completely visible, certainly to any artist doing a portrait, or anyone with an artist's eyes. 

Cool site for screen caps though!  Click on any photo and it will enlarge it to fill your screen.  (On that site.) 

In some photos it's covered, in others, it's not.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Umbelina

[SusanSunflower]

A fake ID needs to stand up to some scrutiny ... and the photo can (and probably should be) terrible ... Paige is not particularly distinctive in terms of looks, in fact she's still rather Bambi bland which is great for making disguises (which Paige hadn't bothered with -- again is this surveillance 101 to be so "recognizable as her real self". ) A young girl (at any time) has the option of having gotten a hair cut, dye job, swapped glasses for contacts or otherwise changed her appearance and style since she got that ID photo taken. 

I gather kids on the east coast routinely have fake ID (even several) as we saw with Kimmie.  (On the west coast when I was a kid, we hung out at friend's houses and -- for my crowd -- alcohol was not an issue.  We could "borrow" from our parents, true also with cigarettes ... some kids had plenty of cash because they had rich parents or they sold drugs ... (1960's)  I have no memory of fake ID being a "thing" ... 

I guess that's why I'm doubtful Paige's ID and (hopefully really bad)  photo would "obviously" raise alarms.  Another college student with fake ID with a nondescript photo.  Who'd care and when might "they" make any connection -- except now possibly / potentially with the sailor's murder.   The ID should probably check out wrt name / address (though they need not trace to Paige), but kids move around, and duh, it's just another fake ID anyway....  using "real" data for someone else.  I don't think there was face recognition software ... even primitive. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

I guess that's why I'm doubtful Paige's ID and (hopefully really bad)  photo would "obviously" raise alarms.  Another college student with fake ID with a nondescript photo.  Who'd care and when might "they" make any connection -- except now possibly / potentially with the sailor's murder.   The ID should probably check out wrt name / address (though they need not trace to Paige), but kids move around, and duh, it's just another fake ID anyway....  using "real" data for someone else.  I don't think there was face recognition software ... even primitive. 

I don't think the point is that it would raise any alarms right now. It's that there's a piece of evidence out there, period. Doesn't have to be about a specific fear. In fact, that would be better because you could just watch for this one thing. (And who knows how many other things might be out there eventually if Paige isn't obsessive about it like her mother is.) She's lost control of that now.

One of the defining features of Philip and Elizabeth is that they are better than good at what they do. They're amazing because they're obsessive about it. The only time they let something slide even a little is when they're emotionally compromised and that's a big deal. They would never argue that sloppiness is okay. Usually when Philip or Elizabeth argue that something isn't a big deal it's because they can't do anything about it and need to calm down about it. That's why Philip was always so scornful of Kate. (Elizabeth I think has more of a pattern of prioritizing enthusiasm, but she cares about the other stuff too--maybe they're both just mirroring their own recruitment there.)

Even if the ID never came to anything, putting the loss of it on the level of something that one deals with by apologizing to one's mom is seriously lowering the standard.

[Umbelina]

Also, Elizabeth, for a trainer, seems far too concerned with Paige THINKING she's good or OK, instead of ensuring that Paige is good or OK at being a spy.

We'll find out hopefully, if Elizabeth lies to Granny about this, or sugar coats why she killed the sailor when she does tell the story. 

[SusanSunflower]

not only does Paige need to not know about the dead sailor, she must tell no one on the surveillance team about this thing that happened ...  she can't even ask how they might have handled it or if they'd ever been in a similar situation ... 

Unless Elizabeth immediately called the Centre about the killing, I doubt she would see any reason to tell them (or anyone else) now. 

She is tightening the noose, by multiplying the number of people she is lying to. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[RedHawk]

11 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

14 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I don't think the first episode can cover every storyline so it's likely we'll see young Misha and Phillip's supposed brother and family soon.

Interesting--do you think the family Mischa met last season was fake?

It seems so convenient that suddenly "they" (the KGB) give Misha a family he didn't know he had...

Edited April 5, 2018 by RedHawk

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

It seems so convenient that suddenly "they" (the KGB) gives Misha a family he didn't know he had...

Ah, I see. I figured that was Gabriel playing "Ded Moroz" again, hooking them up because Philip would like him to have one.

[Anela]

I'm only just catching up with the new episodes. I wondered why Elizabeth kept cradling that locket thing, and looking worried. It holds a suicide pill? I wondered why the guy said she'd never get arrested. Yikes. 

I liked seeing Philip enjoying himself, too. 

I know that they want to protect their daughter, but if she's going to be a real spy, they should tell her that yes, sex and murder are involved. It's not a game. They've almost died before. 

[millennium]

I thought this episode was a lot of work.   Too much exposition, too much of it in Russian.   

The Peter Gabriel song reminded me of Miami Vice.   Seat me with those who call bullshit on Paige's overnight conversion to communism.   Poor Henry, he's the only innocent. 

When Elizabeth goes to the mall, does she shop for 7-10 personas all at once?

Edited April 13, 2018 by millennium

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, millennium said:

When Elizabeth goes to the mall, does she shop for 7-10 personas all at once?

I can picture her going to various malls, one persona each. Just to make sure no one sees her.

[diggle]

I didn't realize you were back to more "old school" recaps until the other day. I am so excited, and have so many recaps I need to read! Viva la Words! (No, not a podcast person.)

[UncleChuck]

On 3/29/2018 at 11:00 AM, kay1864 said:

OR he could try to look her up, call the college, go to the address and discover that it's fake THEN start a real investigation,

Because NOTHING is more suspicious than a college student with a fake identity card...

[Roseanna]

On ‎29‎.‎3‎.‎2018 at 5:38 AM, TimWil said:

The film the gals were watching was Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears (1980). I watched it a couple of times in the 1980s. I liked Katerina a lot, too. And I also agree with Paige about the love interest-he was a pig and we were supposed to think he was charming and someone the leading character really needed. The USSR really was a patriarchal society, after all.

I agree. 

The actors have told that ordinary Soviot society doesn't have those modern things the heroine had in her home in the 80ies.