S01.E01: Pilot

[OtterMommy]

Quote

Lou Mazzuchelli (Josh Radnor), an uninspired English teacher at Stanton High, petitions to take over as director of the school's theater program in an attempt to revitalize his passion for teaching, but quickly realizes he has his work cut out for him. His controversial decision to change the musical to the more provocative Spring Awakening and his atypical casting choices create a ripple effect for the program's assistant director Tracey Wolfe (Rosie Perez), the school's football coach Sam Strickland (Joe Tippett), and the students in the show. 

[mustbekarma]

I loved it. I'm in. My favorite moment was when the students burned The Pirates of Penzance props an d costumes.  That warmed my rebel heart.

[Laurie4H]

It has potential but too many cliche’s.  

Repressed gay kid with very religious family,  repressed school who  fight the teachers with progressive ideas....oh and throw in a transgender as well.    It wouldn’t bother me if it all didn’t seem so heavy handed and political.  

And it all seemed to happen so fast.  He won Rosie Perez and all the kids in one episode.  Within 5 minutes they were told that the teacher was leaving and they had to do Pirates and a few scenes later they are protesting and he is back and so is their  controversial play (which I somewhat agree is too controversial for high school).

[tennisgurl]

So this is what it would look like if Glee and Friday Night Lights had a baby together. As long as no one gets trapped in a stupid subplot involving fashion magazines OR murdering rapists and covering it up for no reason, I could get into this. 

[Snow Apple]

So, this is a dark dreary Glee complete with a blackmailed football player, a coach who probably want to sabotage them, the weak principal, and all the rest. The shaky camera work bugged me. But damn I couldn't stop watching. I already like the kids and adore Spring Awakening. I'll stuck around the now.

[Cotypubby]

It’s basically a dramatic version of Glee.

I might give it another shot but it just seemed so predictable and cliche in every way. The transgender character was at least something new and interesting. 

I wonder how they’ll get around “Totally Fucked,” the big song from Spring Awakening.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Cotypubby

[truthaboutluv]

6 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

It has potential but too many cliche’s.  

Repressed gay kid with very religious family,  repressed school who  fight the teachers with progressive ideas....oh and throw in a transgender as well.    It wouldn’t bother me if it all didn’t seem so heavy handed and political.  

And it all seemed to happen so fast.  He won Rosie Perez and all the kids in one episode.  Within 5 minutes they were told that the teacher was leaving and they had to do Pirates and a few scenes later they are protesting and he is back and so is their  controversial play (which I somewhat agree is too controversial for high school).

Well no need for me to comment because this one pretty much summed up my thoughts. I did enjoy it well enough and I think it has potential but yeah, it definitely felt at times like it hit every possible cliche it could. And the quickness of the whole "you'll have to fire us all" was a bit heavy handed. But there's definite potential. I could also tell that it had the same team as FNL because that direction was classic FNL. The constant random close ups, silences, etc. 

eta: I am curious about the theater director's son. Call me silly but I actually did believe him about the alcohol but there's clearly something going on with him. And speaking of, I know the teacher wanted to help the homeless kid but seriously, putting him in the room with the son who at best seems like he can barely stand his own family? Yeah that kid is going to want to have to share his space with some stranger. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[Guest]

Friday Night Lights was one of my all time favorite shows.  This isn't Friday Night Lights.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, this is basically the Glee pilot, but without all the camp. We have the dying town, the teacher who wants to change lives, the principle to lives to make the school board or whoever happy, the asshole coach of the big sports team, and the weirdly specific "teacher blackmails quarterback to be the star of his glee club I MEAN musical" plot. Plus we get the added cliches with the repressed gay kid with the super conservative religious parents, the super conservative school officials who want to kill the students buzz, plucky working class girl with big dreams, the sucky audition montage, AND the inspirational speeches. That being said, I can still give this a try. I already like the kids, and I can already see I will be more invested in their story than in Teds. It has potential, especially if it rises above the cliches. Pun 100% intended. 

I do have to say though, I kinda understand parents not being thrilled about the school doing Spring Awakenings. They deal with a lot of really dark subjects in that play that I would think would require some parental consent forms or a lot of discussions with adults or something (especially dealing with sexual abuse or other heavy themes), and a lot of really sexual situations that would be rather eye raising for students who are still minors. I know the characters are teens, but most of the Broadway actors weren't, or were at least 18. I could easily see it being a good college play, but for high school...not trying to be the evil prudish small towners or anything (I am so not a prude at all), but it is something that I think should at least be discussed with parents first. It is just an easy play.

Edited March 14, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Cotypubby]

Yeah, Spring Awakening is pretty heavy material, it was adult even for Broadway let alone high school! I saw it on Broadway and wasn’t there also a rape scene with nudity?

It’s not light fare by any means. 

[Pop Tart]

I agree that a lot of this was heavy-handed and exposition heavy, but my biggest issue is Lou. I pretty-much hated him. Talk about your white, male privilege. He decides he wants the job of theater director and gets it even though there’s a woman of color who has been doing the job for eleven years. Which, granted, wasn’t his fault, but when she makes clear that she still wants her position, he shrugs and offers her the job of his assistant. And then he goes home and drops the news on his wife who expresses dismay because it will be a huge added burden for her. He makes a bunch of unrealistic promises - and we know they’re unrealistic because he immediately breaks them - and then earnestly tells her he really needs this and she gives in. 

These scenes plus the ones he had with the maybe-gay kid and the football player and a couple others were all about what he needed. He talked a good game about them being a troupe, but nothing he did demonstrated concern for anyone but himself. Even his choice of Spring Awakening was about his ego, he’s the cool guy, not the lame-o who does Grease or Pirates of Penzance. 

I liked the rest of the cast, so I’ll probably try one more episode, but boy he may make it impossible for me to watch this.

[Snow Apple]

3 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

 

I wonder how they’ll get around “Totally Fucked,” the big song from Spring Awakening.

I read the book this show is based on and their high school production was allowed to say it three times. But I don't think they can get away with it on network tv.

[itsjustme]

8 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, this is basically the Glee pilot, but without all the camp. We have the dying town, the teacher who wants to change lives, the principle to lives to make the school board or whoever happy, the asshole coach of the big sports team, and the weirdly specific "teacher blackmails quarterback to be the star of his glee club I MEAN musical" plot. Plus we get the added cliches with the repressed gay kid with the super conservative religious parents, the super conservative school officials who want to kill the students buzz, plucky working class girl with big dreams, the sucky audition montage, AND the inspirational speeches. That being said, I can still give this a try. I already like the kids, and I can already see I will be more invested in their story than in Teds. It has potential, especially if it rises above the cliches. Pun 100% intended. 

I do have to say though, I kinda understand parents not being thrilled about the school doing Spring Awakenings. They deal with a lot of really dark subjects in that play that I would think would require some parental consent forms or a lot of discussions with adults or something (especially dealing with sexual abuse or other heavy themes), and a lot of really sexual situations that would be rather eye raising for students who are still minors. I know the characters are teens, but most of the Broadway actors weren't, or were at least 18. I could easily see it being a good college play, but for high school...not trying to be the evil prudish small towners or anything (I am so not a prude at all), but it is something that I think should at least be discussed with parents first. 

Lea Michele the original  Wendla in Spring Awakening did her first work shop of the muscial when she was 14.  The character grew as she did not include nudity until she was 19.  When it went to BWay v-the OBC was 16-24.

 

This is based on a a true story when a small town did do SA.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drama_High_(novel)

2 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I read the book this show is based on and their high school production was allowed to say it three times. But I don't think they can get away with it on network tv.

They recorded 2 versions one for sale Totally fucked and one Totally effed.

[tennisgurl]

3 minutes ago, itsjustme said:

Lea Michele the original  Wendla in Spring Awakening did her first work shop of the muscial when she was 14.  The character grew as she did not include nudity until she was 19.  When it went to BWay v-the OBC was 16-24.

 

Wow, I thought Lea was a bit older when she started with that part. And I didn't know the show was based on a true story, thats quite interesting. I wonder how close this follows the true story? Damn, my small town high school choir had to cut the word Gay out of "Deck the Halls" in our Christmas concert, and had to cut the word Beer out of one line of Beauty and the Beast! 

[Sandman]

I enjoyed it, but I was surprised that the principal read the play after Mr. Mazzu (... Really, show?) had cast the thing. That seemed unrealistic. Surely any faculty advisor/program head would need to have the play approved first? And the scene of the Stanton Drama group more or less publicly burning the sets and costumes for Pirates of Penzance -- either school property or rental property belonging to someone else -- would result in the teachers' immediate termination for cause and in mass suspensions for the students. It made for a very uplifting scene, granted (I mean, I'm not made of stone, people) -- no way in hell would it ever happen.

I like the kids, though, and I thought Radnor was pretty effective as their inspiring teacher -- that seems to be right in Katims' wheelhouse.

[bobbyjoe]

Loved Friday Night Lights.  Loved Glee.  Hoped this would be like a Reeses Cup: two great tastes that taste great together.  But instead it felt more like peanut butter and tuna fish.  Not a combination that really works.

 

I’m not sure what year this is supposed to be taking place in.  On one hand you have people talking about Spring Awakening and Hamilton and at least so far the reaction to the transgender character was refreshingly cool and nonchalant.  But many of the storylines feel like they’re taking place in 1992.  

 

And as others have mentioned, oy, the cliches.  Could we maybe once have a story about a high school drama class where the star football player doesn’t turn out to be a great singer who saves the day?  Or, how about, considering it’s 2018, we get a story about a gay guy in drama club who isn’t conflicted and whose story is something else than yet another coming out tale?

Edited March 14, 2018 by bobbyjoe

[itsjustme]

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Wow, I thought Lea was a bit older when she started with that part. And I didn't know the show was based on a true story, thats quite interesting. I wonder how close this follows the true story? Damn, my small town high school choir had to cut the word Gay out of "Deck the Halls" in our Christmas concert, and had to cut the word Beer out of one line of Beauty and the Beast! 

She did the workshops and it it took some time to get to bway.  She was 19 before it finally  got  the full stage treatment. 

[jmonique]

It was trying way, way too hard for "This Is Us" meets "Glee" for me, and Josh Radnor just isn't a strong enough actor for me to not think "Ted's kind of a hard-ass on his kid" while lecturing about AA.

Pass.

[LittleIggy]

I enjoyed it, cliches aside. I’m still pissed Mercy Street was cancelled so I’ll take any bearded Josh Radnor I can.

[CoyoteBlue]

2 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Repressed gay kid with very religious family

And a special needs sister! (Damn, a little on the nose for Colfer there... :)) I found the dynamic there interesting though. Like, despite the fact that we're probably supposed to feel like his parents are terrible and repressive, it seems Simon has no problem having a mature discussion with them about issues and his parents seem to allow him to make his own decisions after giving their opinions/advice. So... kudos? I hope they don't blow that out of the water by making them cardboard villains later on. 

It also looks like Simon and Jeremy are going to develop something. 

 

2 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

I agree that a lot of this was heavy-handed and exposition heavy, but my biggest issue is Lou. I pretty-much hated him. Talk about your white, male privilege. He decides he wants the job of theater director and gets it even though there’s a woman of color who has been doing the job for eleven years. Which, granted, wasn’t his fault, but when she makes clear that she still wants her position, he shrugs and offers her the job of his assistant. And then he goes home and drops the news on his wife who expresses dismay because it will be a huge added burden for her. He makes a bunch of unrealistic promises - and we know they’re unrealistic because he immediately breaks them - and then earnestly tells her he really needs this and she gives in. 

Yeah, he's a small-town white man in his mid-life crisis taking everyone out along the way and not giving a shit who gets trampled. High-school English bores him, so he bullies his way into a new hobby. They'd have a long way to go to redeem him for me.

[Trini]

Okay but, maybe destroying school property isn't the best way to plead your case?

I checked this out just out of curiosity; I won't be sticking with it. Also that style of camerawork is really irksome for me.

[Minneapple]

It wasn't bad, but it felt like it was trying to be a lot of things - heavy on exposition yet rushed. Let's rush to introduce all the kids now. Gay kid, football player, trans kid, etc. 

Also.

Lou: I want to be theater director

Principal: OK

Later

Lou: Hey wife, I'm going to be theater director. This will be a huge added burden on our family.

Wife: OK

So the bonding and the togetherness felt unearned and awkward. That sort of thing should evolve over the whole season, not over one bloody episode. As rar as i know these kids barely know each other.

I'll stick with it for now, though. The high school that this is based on is not far from where I live. 

[dcinmb]

Oddly enough, I actually found Glee more realistic and believable than this show. On the fence so far, but I love Spring Awakening (was lucky enough to see the original Broadway show with Jonathan Groff, Lea Michele and John Gallagher, Jr.), so I'll give it a few more eps.

[CelticBlackCat]

Destroying school property.  With the school zero tolerance mindset and the actual financial burden/loss, this would not be tolerated.  Hopefully the principal was meekly going back to his office to call the police and file a property loss police report!

Gay kids in high school!

Transgender (which bathroom shall I use now that I'm Michael?) amongst us!

Super religious Catholic family (Mom didn't get an abortion when they found out she'd be having a Down Syndrome baby) tries to curtail son from participating in adult sex-themed show for theater!

Slutty Mom does Coach!

Daughter is embarrassed and in despair over the affair!

Bored English teacher steamrolls over Rosie Perez but then cuts her some slack and lets her assist him.  Wife gets notice of big decision along with rest of family.  Don't like it, too bad, so sad, I Need This!

I'm not sure I'll get hooked on this one, even as a replacement for This Is Us until fall 2018.

[Snow Apple]

I agree everything was too rushed. I don't even know any of their names except Simon, Lou, and Robbie. All the characters and backgrounds are thrown at us too soon, too fast.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I didn't know the show was based on a true story, thats quite interesting. I wonder how close this follows the true story?

The short answer is: not very. They have made so many changes that the title credit for the show says "inspired by" rather than "based on" the book. Most of these changes are irrevocable but I'm going to put them under the spoiler cut just in case.

In real life/the book:

Spoiler

• Lou didn't take over the theater department because he was bored after 17 years of teaching English. A few months after he began teaching, he walked by the theater where they were having rehearsals for Camelot. He asked the drama director (who taught in the English department with him) if she needed any help, so he started out selling tickets and doing administrative stuff. At the end of the school year, that director moved out of state. He applied to be the assistant drama director, thinking he could help the new person and instead the principal appointed him the new drama director.
• Tracey is his assistant director, not because he pushed her out of the job of director but because she was one of his drama students who ended up working at the school after he had already been the drama director for many years.
• He began working with the drama club in the 1970s so rather than doing a period piece, they moved the setting to today.
• Obviously since he began his time with the drama club in the 70s, his first production was not Spring Awakening. The first play he selected as drama director was a modern version of Antigone that had only one performance and had an audience of fourteen people. The first musical he directed was You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown. His second musical was Bye Bye Birdie. He did like doing edgier plays and musicals, but it took him a little while to get there. His first somewhat edgier selection was Pippin, which was controversial at the time. He got some angry letters from parents (one of whom thought she was taking her daughter to see Pippi Longstocking).
• After Antigone, he realized that he needed help so he started attending every local play he could and he started taking theater classes and workshops including improv.
• He did do a production of Spring Awakening but it came about very differently. In 2001 Music Theatre International (the company that licenses rights for schools and theaters to do plays aka the people who get paid every time anyone performs a play) contacted Lou and asked him if he would do a pilot for the school version of Les Misérables. It's pretty common for MTI to have a professional version of the play as well as a school version. Sometimes the cuts are made for time constraints (like Les Mis since most kids/parents aren't going to sit through a three hour musical). Sometimes the cuts are made for content. For example, the high school version of Grease changes the lyrics of "Greased Lightning" ("the chicks'll cream" "she's a real pussy wagon," "we'll be getting lots of tit"). There is also a junior version available for which changes the lyrics to even more songs like "Sandra Dee."
• Heh, sorry for the digression. After Lou successfully created the school version of Les Mis, MTI asked him to do the same for Rent a few years later. After that, he approached MTI and asked permission to create the school version of Spring Awakening. They said they had already planned to ask him to do it anyway.
• Lou did not poach anyone from the football team. He had athletes who participated in the plays and musicals but voluntarily without any blackmail on his part. One of his first athletes did inadvertently create a conflict because the coach didn't want him to do the play but Lou did not pressure the kid to choose. He told him that he could do whatever he wanted, whether that was try to do both or just quit the play.
• In real life, Lou is gay. He was married to a woman for a long time, but they eventually separated and remain good friends (when they sold their family home, they bought two separate townhouses in the same development so they're a three minute walk away from each other). They have one son (not three kids) who is now a sixth grade teacher in the same town, which means often his students end up later becoming his father's students. The show runners have said that the Lou on the show is NOT gay.

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Lou had a total Ted Mosby moment when he told the football coach "Actually musicals are typically referred to as shows, not plays." Next he'll be telling him how to pronounced renaissance.

I find it hilarious that the reasons various people cited for Spring Awakening being too mature/controversial for high school students are themes that are in other plays and musicals commonly done at high schools. Grease, the show that Tracey was originally staging, features a knocked up Rizzo and Marty asking if she's going to "get rid of it" (Teen sex, check! Abortion discussion, check!). Romeo & Juliet, a staple of high school drama departments, features teen suicide (after teen sex). Antigone, also done at many high schools, is the product of incest, the daughter/sister of Oedipus and his mother Jocasta (incest, check!). West Side Story, another staple high school musical, features a gang pretending to rape Anita.

[MelineB13]

26 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I find it hilarious that the reasons various people cited for Spring Awakening being too mature/controversial for high school students are themes that are in other plays and musicals commonly done at high schools. Grease, the show that Tracey was originally staging, features a knocked up Rizzo and Marty asking if she's going to "get rid of it" (Teen sex, check! Abortion discussion, check!). 

I remember my high school drama teacher REFUSED outright to even consider doing Grease because she decided it villainized Sandy being a good person who did well in school and obeyed her parents and didn't drink or smoke and made her change to become more like the boy she liked. Even though he made a half assed attempt to change, he quickly went back to his greaser/bad boy ways the minute she put on those leggings and started smoking. She decided those were not messages she wanted to teach teen girls. 

Digression aside, I am 100% HERE for this show! It had me at hello with the Hamilton singing and the cool stylized montages of kids singing and dancing. The one thing that drove me crazy were during those montages of the rehearsal... when all of a sudden they all knew the choreography and all the lyrics in a day. Or when Lillet is stumbling over the words reading straight from the script during the football player's audition and then in a second she knows it by heart.  They made a big to-do about how 80% of these kids were completely new to theater so are they all just complete naturals?

[buffy11bnl]

7 hours ago, CoyoteBlue said:

Yeah, he's a small-town white man in his mid-life crisis taking everyone out along the way and not giving a shit who gets trampled. High-school English bores him, so he bullies his way into a new hobby. They'd have a long way to go to redeem him for me.

I thought it was just Ted Mosby I found insufferable, but I’d like to print this out and mail it to the writers because I’m pretty sure they don’t get it.  

He’s getting paid so little for this it is insane - I’ve been involved in community + school theater for 30+ years and here is a very conservative breakdown

$2000 for the year

1 show in the fall and 1 in the spring =$1000 per show 

about 12 weeks of prep & rehearsals for each = $83.33 per week

I’ll be generous and say he’s only at the school for 4  4 hour rehearsals a week = 16 hours a week at a rate of $5.20 an hour.

Hell at $4000 a year at least Rosie Perez was getting above minimum wage.

 

the fact that he’d throw his entire family under the bus at what is so clearly a time they could use more support *at home* is just so aggravating, I ended changing the channel about halfway through and not feeling like I was going to miss anything.

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So this is what it would look like if Glee and Friday Night Lights had a baby together. As long as no one gets trapped in a stupid subplot involving fashion magazines OR murdering rapists and covering it up for no reason, I could get into this. 

I was thinking FNL (which is one of my all-time favorite shows) and Smash. That opening shot was like frame for frame from the (EXCELLENT, I still watch it regularly) FNL pilot. So was the pep rally. The diner waitress/football coach affair reeks of Buddy Garritty sleeping with Tyra's mother, as does the rivalry between the two daughters. Poor daughter with a single mother goes against daughter from the town's most prominent family (although in FNL it was Lyla, the one from the prominent family, who was the meek one and Tyra was brash and outspoken).

This suffers a bit from the thing many pilots do, where they have to set up the rest of the series so they cram in a ton of stories all at once. Unless a pilot is absolutely horrible, I always give new shows two episodes. This is no exception.

I was in all the singing groups in high school and did some musicals. A lot of this looked familiar except the timeline was crazy compressed. Grease was cast already and they were in rehearsals, but he scraps that and recasts a totally new show? In, like, two days? Okay.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Even if I hadn't know this was a Jason Katims show beforehand, it was obvious from the opening shot which was very FNL.

Loved Lou's daughters singing along with Hamilton. I wonder how much it cost them to use those two snippets.

ITA that scrapping the current production of Grease when the show had already been cast and they were already in rehearsal was a dick move. Do another play next semester, man! It's not fair to the kids to disregard all the work they had already put into the original show because the new guy wants to do something else. I mean, I totally agree that doing four productions of the same show in ten years is overkill but it's still pretty inconsiderate to say, "Hi, everyone! I just took your director's job and now I'll be picking a new play for you to learn. Sorry you wasted your time for however long on that other lame show!"

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA that scrapping the current production of Grease when the show had already been cast and they were already in rehearsal was a dick move. Do another play next semester, man! It's not fair to the kids to disregard all the work they had already put into the original show because the new guy wants to do something else. I mean, I totally agree that doing four productions of the same show in ten years is overkill but it's still pretty inconsiderate to say, "Hi, everyone! I just took your director's job and now I'll be picking a new play for you to learn. Sorry you wasted your time for however long on that other lame show!"

Agreed; but, on the other hand, I've never understood the appeal of Grease -- seriously, never. I think the whole premise is awful, and I never been able to sit through more than a few minutes of any of it. So, yay! Grease-cutting! (But why would the production have already started only to have the principal, horrified once he actually got around to reading Spring Awakening, announce that the school wouldn't be putting on Spring Awakening, because Eeeek! or Grease, either, because it was too expensive? That didn't make sense.) Poor Principal: I think he only exists in the story to spoil everyone's fun.

I don't think Mosby-Mazzu blackmailed the kid, exactly: if anyone was blackmailed, it was the coach, the principal and Robbie's father, after they tried to strong-arm Mr. Magoo -- er, Mazzu into bending the rules in their (not Robbie's, necessarily) favour.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Sandman

[jennknee]

11 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

I agree that a lot of this was heavy-handed and exposition heavy, but my biggest issue is Lou. I pretty-much hated him. Talk about your white, male privilege. He decides he wants the job of theater director and gets it even though there’s a woman of color who has been doing the job for eleven years. Which, granted, wasn’t his fault, but when she makes clear that she still wants her position, he shrugs and offers her the job of his assistant. And then he goes home and drops the news on his wife who expresses dismay because it will be a huge added burden for her. He makes a bunch of unrealistic promises - and we know they’re unrealistic because he immediately breaks them - and then earnestly tells her he really needs this and she gives in.

YES! Like, this whole set up of him (having acted ONCE or something) walking in, saying "gimmie" and the principal being like "Sure, that lady director with years of experience is a REAL pain in the ass, anyway." was so infuriating to me. Reminds me of that quote that's something like "Lord, give me the confidence of a mediocre white man."

And then all the plot points are pulled directly from Glee as mentioned...blackmailed football player that the hero teacher "discovers" is actually a great singer, gay and transgendered kids, and the opposing coach of the successful team. Hero genius teacher pulls a rag tag group of kids together - who are all AMAZING singers yet never thought to get involved in the school musical. All done in the exact style of FNL.

Like, I kind of hated everything about it?

But...singing, musicals, Moana being in it, Spring Awakening...I'm totally gonna watch it all. And I'm gonna love it. What can I say...I'm a sucker.

And, yes, to the fact the Spring Awakening is to risqué but Grease is very wholesome! HA!

[Cotypubby]

7 hours ago, Minneapple said:

It wasn't bad, but it felt like it was trying to be a lot of things - heavy on exposition yet rushed. Let's rush to introduce all the kids now. Gay kid, football player, trans kid, etc. 

Also.

Lou: I want to be theater director

Principal: OK

Later

Lou: Hey wife, I'm going to be theater director. This will be a huge added burden on our family.

Wife: OK

So the bonding and the togetherness felt unearned and awkward. That sort of thing should evolve over the whole season, not over one bloody episode. As rar as i know these kids barely know each other.

I'll stick with it for now, though. The high school that this is based on is not far from where I live. 

And then later

Lou: Hey wife, this random teenager is going to be living with us. I'm sure that will have no burden on us at all even though we're already struggling. Son fix up the sleeping bag in your bedroom.

Wife: OK

The more I think about the more I dislike this show.

[wonderwoman]

ali barthwell at the av club pretty much summed up my reaction to the pilot:

https://www.avclub.com/lazy-choices-and-too-many-tragedies-lead-to-a-disappoin-1823750817

[chaifan]

I thought the pilot was ok - a bit rushed, but I think that is obligatory now to fully introduce every main character in the pilot for ratings and such.  I was also bothered with him scrapping a production that was already well into rehearsals, etc., and also did not like the burning of the pirate costumes. I really thought that was incredibly irresponsible, and wholly unrealistic because in high school theater you reuse costumes for different productions (puffy pirate shirt could also be used in Romeo & Juliet) and I don't like seeing destructive behavior rewarded with getting what you want in the end.  I can't see a principal saying, oh, no Pirate costumes? sure go ahead and do the play (oh, sorry, I mean *show*) I told you you couldn't do.  Forget that there are a million other plays/shows to pick from.

Totally catty, but Rosie Perez's bangs really bothered me - couldn't see her eyes half the time. 

I didn't catch the blackmail of the football player.  Can someone fill me in?

Talented cast, and none of the teen actors bugged, but I'm not hooked.  I may give it a few more episodes, but I don't think this will stick for me.

[Ireland77]

Lou didn't blackmail Robbie (the star QB) to join the musical. Sure, he blackmailed him to try out because he wanted to drum up interested and get other boys to try out.  But he very calmly talked to him in the gym and told Robbie that he thought he had talent.  He explained to Robbie that he could both play football and be in the musical (I think he said Robbie would miss one game if he committed to both).  He told Robbie to think about it and left the decision up to Robbie.  I understand the comparisons between Glee, but this is not at all the same situation.

I actually found this Pilot much more similar to Friday Night Lights - especially with the opening scene cinematography of Lou driving and the music used.  Plus, the mom/coach affair is definitely shades of Tara's mom sleeping with Buddy Garity.

[BonnieD]

I agree with everyone else, too cliched, too rushed, too much (retreaded) plot shoehorned in the very first episode. I love theater shows so I'll continue to watch but I know I'll always be grumbling about these things. Football player secretly wants to sing...sigh, not again! Couldn't they make the least effort to try a different spin, something fresh?

One nitpick that REALLY bugged me was the switch to Spring Awakening in the middle of working on Grease. Everyone who knows anything about theater knows how expensive it is to rent a show. A poor school like this would not be able to afford to just change their minds. Plus it takes time to contact the company, sign a contract, and get the new scripts sent. They aren't just lying around willy nilly! The school was financially committed to Grease. Not to mention the cast would have gone berserk if someone pulled the rug out from under them by cancelling. They would have had their parents involved so fast Teacher Better-than-Grease's head would spin. Imagine the divas in your local high school being told, "nope. Forget it. Your role is gone."
Also, the parents would have to be contacted about the serious subject matter and waivers would have to be signed. Period. 

Quote

They deal with a lot of really dark subjects in that play that I would think would require some parental consent forms or a lot of discussions with adults or something (especially dealing with sexual abuse or other heavy themes), and a lot of really sexual situations that would be rather eye raising for students who are still minors.

[lavenderblue]

One executive producer is a Hamilton producer and Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote the football player's rap, so that all might've helped along some cost breaks on the Hamilton snippets...

This show is...not off to a great start, though some reviewers suggest it improves dramatically by the later episodes. My feeling is that Glee was a better vehicle for a story like this because this story is inherently very earnest. It's high school drama (or glee) club! It's artistic kids and a dreamy teacher living out creative fantasies on stage! It needs something sour or salty, or just overall comedic and light, to offset it, to punch some holes in things. This show has plenty of dark storylines brewing, but there's no levity to any of it. You don't need the full camp of a Glee, but it's hard to take how very, very seriously the show is currently taking every character's seriousness.

[wonderwoman]

slate's willa paskin concurs:

https://slate.com/culture/2018/03/nbcs-rise-reviewed.html

[tennisgurl]

Maybe other schools do it differently, but in high schools where I grew up, most shows like Grease, West Side Story, and Annie had "teen" versions, that tended to take out the darker parts of the shows, usually having to do with sex, drugs, or anything political in nature. Not that they shouldn't do the "real" versions, but talking to students and parents about the more PG-13 elements isn't unreasonable. If they can explain to parents why its important to talk about these issues with teens, I think it could work out just fine. 

I want a show to have a sub plot where a father who loves music and dancing has a son he cant relate to who just wants to express himself by playing basketball. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by tennisgurl

[chaifan]

9 hours ago, Ireland77 said:

Lou didn't blackmail Robbie (the star QB) to join the musical. Sure, he blackmailed him to try out because he wanted to drum up interested and get other boys to try out. 

OK, so what was that blackmail?

8 hours ago, wonderwoman said:

slate's willa paskin concurs:

https://slate.com/culture/2018/03/nbcs-rise-reviewed.html

I disagree with Paskin on her call that Radnor cast the maybe-gay kid in the gay part to help him come out.  I thought he simply recognized that this kid and his prior female leads had no chemistry (probably because he's gay?) and wanted to have someone in the lead who could.  Maybe that was a ruse to put a maybe-gay kid in a gay role, but I didn't see it that way. 

I liked the scene where Simon stood up to his parents, but I just see the follow up:  Hey mom, dad, remember how you didn't want me to be in that play or play a gay character because, well you know, God?  Well I just helped burn all the costumes for another play - oh, sorry, I meant *show* - so, how about letting me be in this show now?  (Sorry - I can't let it go - that whole burn the costume thing was just such a bad plot element and not enough hand waiving can make it better.)

[HazelEyes4325]

I think I came into this with too high expectations.  This was sort of the belle of the ball last pilot season and I just expected more.  I co-sign all who said that the characters are too trope-y and, strangely, that kept me from getting too emotionally invested in them.  But, in the end, I like musicals so I'll keep watching for now.

Oh, and here's my general rant for many shows, although this one can be included...Can they please just turn the lights on???  It was all so freaking DARK and, well, sepia.....  What do these people have against light and color?

[truthaboutluv]

25 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I think I came into this with too high expectations. 

And that's probably why despite it's issues I liked it just fine because I swear, I only became vaguely aware of this show and that it was premiering this week, sometime last week. So I came in with no expectations. The show definitely had issues but it's actually more the norm for Pilots to be a little clunky and the show gets better, versus it being amazing right from the start. At least in my experience anyway.

 

Quote

Maybe other schools do it differently, but in high schools where I grew up, most shows like Grease, West Side Story, and Annie had "teen" versions, that tended to take out the darker parts of the shows, usually having to do with sex, drugs, or anything political in nature.

Yeah that's what I've heard. I could swear I read somewhere online where a poster said their school did Spring Awakening but changed a few things. It's kind of like how every film adaptation of It has removed the apparent orgy scene that exists in the book.

Edited March 14, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[Ireland77]

42 minutes ago, chaifan said:

OK, so what was that blackmail? 

Robbie got a 47 on his English test, which would not have permitted him to play in the homecoming game. The principal and coach were pressuring Lou to let Robbie play, and Lou said he would let Robbie retake the test and allow him to play if he tried out for the musical.  So really, I think it barely qualifies as blackmail anyway.

[HazelEyes4325]

7 minutes ago, Ireland77 said:

Robbie got a 47 on his English test, which would not have permitted him to play in the homecoming game. The principal and coach were pressuring Lou to let Robbie play, and Lou said he would let Robbie retake the test and allow him to play if he tried out for the musical.  So really, I think it barely qualifies as blackmail anyway.

Yeah, that's not really blackmail.  I mean, yeah, it's a dick move and pretty unethical (and pointless, as I'm sure the Principal could "finesse" things), but it's not really blackmail.

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Maybe other schools do it differently, but in high schools where I grew up, most shows like Grease, West Side Story, and Annie had "teen" versions, that tended to take out the darker parts of the shows, usually having to do with sex, drugs, or anything political in nature. Not that they shouldn't do the "real" versions, but talking to students and parents about the more PG-13 elements isn't unreasonable. If they can explain to parents why its important to talk about these issues with teens, I think it could work out just fine. 

The guy who the show is based on, Lou Volpe, was the one who adapted Spring Awakening for the high school stage. He also adapted Rent, Les Miserables and some other shows. But Volpe didn't start with Spring Awakening, he started with much more standard high school drama fare like Bye Bye Birdie and whatnot. Drama High, the book that inspired the show Rise

[lazylou]

What is not realistic: Usually it is a young man hired to be the new drama teacher who puts on a controversial show, then finds his contract is not renewed the following year.  The kids walk out, protest, go to the school board...all to no avail  That is what REALLY happens.

Here they had an experienced teacher...he reminded me of the teacher in Updike's The Centaur...volunteer to take over the play.  Advantage to the storyline: It will be hard to fire him.  The union will go to bat for him.  I believe an older teacher would volunteer to take over the drama department,   but I doubt he would cancel a show already in production or cast a star football player during football season, especially one who is already on the edge of ineligibility.  Nor would he be surprised when he runs into trouble with Spring Awakening.  I think he would postpone shaking things up and go with something like Grease, or, as mentioned above, Bye Bye Birdie.  The controversy could have been in the casting.

I am a Jason Katims fan from way back...and I yield to his knowledge of what has to happen these days in the pilot episode, but, as mentioned over and over above, this is too much.  

Edited March 15, 2018 by lazylou

[CelticBlackCat]

I'm sure that when the original shows have adult-themed scenes and subjects, that the high school puts on a sanitized version, especially in this very PC world.

[LisaM]

I could tell it was a Jason Katims' show after 5 minutes. Definitely reminded me of the suffocating small town, football-obsessed culture of Friday Night Lights, one of my all-time favorite shows. 

I'm in.