S07.E13: I'm Beautiful, I'm Smart, I'm Strong

[Kalamityjayne]

5 hours ago, Kb60 said:

 

Where in the world did you read that I didn't care or I wasn't phased. I can tell by your post that we are indeed very different. I don't see things that aren't there, lol.

 

I wasn’t speaking of /you/. You said about you don’t see why they’d be upset over a large clot or name it. I explained how other people feel about pregnancies even earlier ones. I’m not the only one you read offense into their comments so I’m not going to take it personal that you took offense to what I said by doing what you accuse others of- seeing something that is not there but maybe take a step back and re read before  being reactive because I didn’t comment on your personal one at all. I said all people react differently and it’s fine if some are sad and if some can shrug it off because it was early.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Kalamityjayne

[CaliforniaLove]

8 hours ago, toodywoody said:

Do Cate and Tyler even have friends?

They do, but they seem to share the SAME friends. I don't think I've ever seen Tyler hang out with a male friend. 

[teapot]

13 hours ago, Bridget said:

 

Clinician: 'What makes you think you can take care of a big ass horse when you struggle to take care of a toddler? Do you know how big horse shit is? Do you know Nova can't pick it up and play with it? "

 

 

Dead.

[Phoebe70]

13 hours ago, toodywoody said:

I just think Cate is very impulsive. First the pig, then the horse, then the baby. She thinks all these things will make her happy when nothing right in front of her makes her happy. Another baby, another pet, another nod of agreement is not bringing Carly back and is not erasing what she suffered in her childhood. Another tortilla, sopapilla or quesadilla isn't going to either.  Either is the hit off the bong. What she has done so far is not working. So to change it up with another baby is not the answer either. Cate needs to learn to make herself happy and not make everyone else happy.  Do Cate and Tyler even have friends? Do they have anyone else besides each other and their family? And I am not saying anything is wrong with that. I am saying maybe if there was someone else that could be on the outside looking in, someone who is only hers,  not her family's or Tyler's.  

Basically she needs to focus on herself.  Don't rush having kids, don't rush getting another animal, don't rush getting another house. Take it one day at a time and learn to love herself. 

YES!!  Wow, is she impulsive.  The various animals, the many houses (how many houses have they lived in?!), wanting to become a grief counselor,  joining Weight Watchers, the children's clothing line.  She gets so excited about it in the beginning but then it quickly  fades away.  I remember years ago when she got a job at some type of retail store and Tyler got a job at a pizza place.  That didn't last long either. 

[Isthisok]

On 2/27/2018 at 12:04 PM, Quilty said:

Hey Amber why don't you ask Leah what she'd like to do when you have "quality time"? A massage? A good massage is great but probably not at the top of a little girls list of fun stuff to do. 

To be fair, “Building a time machine so we can rewind to a year ago and put a Nuvaring on it” probably isn’t something they could’ve accomplished in one afternoon.

[teapot]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 1:04 PM, Quilty said:

Hey Amber why don't you ask Leah what she'd like to do when you have "quality time"? A massage? A good massage is great but probably not at the top of a little girls list of fun stuff to do. 

I'm trying to think now, and I feel like only Leah, Maci, Chelsea, & Kail have taken their kids to kid-appropriate activities that they would enjoy.  I can't imagine Amber, Jenelle, Catelynn, Briana, or Farrah hanging out at the American Girl store or going to Disney on Ice or a trampoline park or any kid-friendly places.  Basically, they just get dragged to wherever the moms feel like going, whether they're happy about it or not.

[RealitytvLover]

On 2/28/2018 at 10:34 AM, gunderda said:

He's already stated that he let Deb abuse Farrah and he feels guilty about that. So you're almost spot on! And probably whatever other abuse it was that Farrah claimed she experienced but wouldn't share on that one other show. 

Maybe it's just me... but the first time we saw Hudson and Bentley together, Hudson seemed a little TOO excited to get to be with Bentley. Because like you, I dont think they've spent much time together.  I feel like Hudson has some weird attachment to him. 

To be fair, Bentley is a very likeable and fun kid. I don't doubt that Hudson enjoys his company when they're together. 

[Rebecca]

40 minutes ago, RealitytvLover said:

To be fair, Bentley is a very likeable and fun kid. I don't doubt that Hudson enjoys his company when they're together. 

Agreed and I think Mackenzie encourages it too. I’m not convinced Bentley cares much about hanging with a 3 year old, however. I’m sure he’s nice to him and whatever but I doubt a 9 year old is super sad about not playing with a 3 year constantly.

[Chris Knight]

On 2/27/2018 at 9:52 AM, imjagain said:

 

I admit sometimes call my son monkey because he loved Curious George as a toddler,  and monkey stuck . However never in front of other kids and it's usually just when he allows me to snuggle with him , lol.

I call my 12-y-o George because of that lovable cartoon monkey, but only at home the last few years. 

[Ladystardust]

11 hours ago, teapot said:

I'm trying to think now, and I feel like only Leah, Maci, Chelsea, & Kail have taken their kids to kid-appropriate activities that they would enjoy.  I can't imagine Amber, Jenelle, Catelynn, Briana, or Farrah hanging out at the American Girl store or going to Disney on Ice or a trampoline park or any kid-friendly places.  Basically, they just get dragged to wherever the moms feel like going, whether they're happy about it or not.

Hey, don’t forget that one time Jenelle took Jace to a children’s museum (I think?) with her gaggle of friends and they did a dirty puppet show in front of the poor kid. 

[GreatKazu]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:00 PM, FawnLeibowitz said:

I see the "porn is legal" mentioned all the time. I think we all know that it's legal - it's just not exactly respected. And yes, I would be very disappointed and embarrassed if that was the path that any of my kids chose.

 

 

It is not about porn needing to be respected. When porn has been mentioned as being legal, it is usually in response to a comment about one or more of the cast members committing criminal acts. For example, Amber tries to assault Farrah. Nothing happens to her even though what she did was an attempted assault which is a crime. Farrah is in the adult business and for some reason MJ Freeman throws it in her face as an excuse for letting her go. One can drive under the influence many times on this show and never get scolded by MJ Freeman and get threatened with losing their job on camera for committing such crimes. But Farrah, who has a legal job outside of this show, is somehow violating some kind of moral code that is not up to MTVs standards. 

Porn being legal also gets mentioned when some of the lazier cast members who have no jobs have shamed Farrah for being in the industry. Porn is a job that is legal and must abide by certain laws, rules, regulations, and city codes. It is not the career choice for many people, and there are people who don't dream of having a child enter into such a business, but I often wonder how many of those people, including the slut-shamers on Teen Mom such as Amber, Cate, Tyler, Butch, Ryan, Maci, and Kail have sat and watched porn for their own entertainment. No doubt in my mind Tyler, Butch, and Ryan watched Farrah in action. 

Tyler slut-shames Farrah, but he has no problem looking at half-naked women and paying those women for his own enjoyment: 

Edited March 4, 2018 by GreatKazu

[IDreamofJoaquin]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 5:08 PM, Bridget said:

This is one of the many reasons why I love this board: I'm now thinking and looking at things from a totally different point of view.

Me too.  Sometimes I'll think UBT seems like he has a good episode and I'll come on here and all the icky things he did will be pointed out.  HA!

[Rebecca]

On 3/3/2018 at 2:03 AM, GreatKazu said:

 

It is not about porn needing to be respected. When porn has been mentioned as being legal, it is usually in response to a comment about one or more of the cast members committing criminal acts. For example, Amber tries to assault Farrah. Nothing happens to her even though what she did was an attempted assault which is a crime. Farrah is in the adult business and for some reason MJ Freeman throws it in her face as an excuse for letting her go. One can drive under the influence many times on this show and never get scolded by MJ Freeman and get threatened with losing their job on camera for committing such crimes. But Farrah, who has a legal job outside of this show, is somehow violating some kind of moral code that is not up to MTVs standards. 

Porn being legal also gets mentioned when some of the lazier cast members who have no jobs have shamed Farrah for being in the industry. Porn is a job that is legal and must abide by certain laws, rules, regulations, and city codes. It is not the career choice for many people, and there are people who don't dream of having a child enter into such a business, but I often wonder how many of those people, including the slut-shamers on Teen Mom such as Amber, Cate, Tyler, Butch, Ryan, Maci, and Kail have sat and watched porn for their own entertainment. No doubt in my mind Tyler, Butch, and Ryan watched Farrah in action. 

Tyler slut-shames Farrah, but he has no problem looking at half-naked women and paying those women for his own enjoyment: 

 

Allllll of this. I can’t even explain how yucky I felt watching those two men discussing and judging Farrah’s career choices. I’d rather be in porn ala Farrah (Not that I actually want to do porn, however. It’s not for me but I don’t begrudge anyone who chooses to do so.) than be the one responsible (hi, Morgan) for these losers being on tv and continuing to be rewarded for fucking up the lives of their children and setting the worst examples possible for the teens viewing the show. Glass houses and shit. Morgan should think about his own morality slope, imo. Your hands aren’t clean either in some people’s eyes, ”fucktard.”

[GreatKazu]

3 hours ago, Rebecca said:

Allllll of this. I can’t even explain how yucky I felt watching those two men discussing and judging Farrah’s career choices. I’d rather be in porn ala Farrah (Not that I actually want to do porn, however. It’s not for me but I don’t begrudge anyone who chooses to do so.) than be the one responsible (hi, Morgan) for these losers being on tv and continuing to be rewarded for fucking up the lives of their children and setting the worst examples possible for the teens viewing the show. Glass houses and shit. Morgan should think about his own morality slope, imo. Your hands aren’t clean either in some people’s eyes, ”fucktard.”

Right. His using the word "fucktards" was against the viewers who had complained about David and his use of slurs and not showing empathy and common sense on a day where another school shooting had taken place. 

MJFreeman doesn't have an issue with morality. If he did, he wouldn't be producing this show. He only now spoke up because the whole teacher on the set violation could cost him. The complaining production crew probably didn't even bother him as they are replaceable as they proved when they got rid of Heather. MJFreeman does not give one iota about what UBT did. He does not care about anyone committing crimes. Not until sponsors began pulling away from the show did it suddenly become a concern to him. It is all about money. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by GreatKazu

[ReadMeLattice]

2 hours ago, Rebecca said:

Allllll of this. I can’t even explain how yucky I felt watching those two men discussing and judging Farrah’s career choices. I’d rather be in porn ala Farrah (Not that I actually want to do porn, however. It’s not for me but I don’t begrudge anyone who chooses to do so.) than be the one responsible (hi, Morgan) for these losers being on tv and continuing to be rewarded for fucking up the lives of their children and setting the worst examples possible for the teens viewing the show. Glass houses and shit. Morgan should think about his own morality slope, imo. Your hands aren’t clean either in some people’s eyes, ”fucktard.”

Seriously. Porn is people getting screwed on camera, but at least it's in a fun way.

In the shows Freeman sells, people are constantly getting screwed, too. It's abuse porn.

[ReadMeLattice]

On 2/27/2018 at 2:38 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

I highly doubt he's being put on camera against his will, but even if he were, that doesn't explain his poorly crafted twitters in her defense, so I just have to conclude that he does all of this because he wants to.  There's something very wrong with every single person in that family, and I would even argue that wanting access to Sophia might be an indicator of that.

 

But that huge break he got has altered his baseline, so he sees only the additive woes without really thinking about it.  We all have problems that make us feel beat down, even those of us who "shouldn't" because we're pretty or rich or successful or have been given a huge break.  I wouldn't trade places with Tyler, even with his huge break.

 

People can be sued for anything.  But they'll lose only if they have some sort of legal duty, and I can't imagine that MTV would in this case.  The only time I can think of that a third party is responsible for the harm a drunk driver causes is when dram shop laws that prohibit serving intoxicated people or minors come into play.  It's that act that sets up the responsibility.

If the "talent" were an employee of MTV, then maybe that would constitute a connection that leads to liability, but I'm very sure that MTV is very careful to ensure the "talent" are all independent contractors. 

 

And I know Farrah's porn career is legal and therefore in some people's eyes above reproach, but I just don't think that any sane person would think it's a good thing for a child to have a parent who does porn, much less is famous for it.  Is there any reason to think Sophia is going to parrot everything Farrah does, but somehow see a difference when it comes to porn?

And in that vein, I have no problem with MTV cutting ties because of it.  Apparently she stopped doing porn for a while, and has now started doing it again, and they don't want their show to be associated with it.  I find many of their shows skeevy and objectionable, but it's their line to draw if their contract covers them.  As far as I know, it's legal to do a lot of things that a TV show might not want to have associated with it.  Like being a white supremacist.  That's legal (not the same as committing illegal acts), but I can certainly see a TV show saying, "We don't want you on our show." 

 

That one in particular always bothers me because some, actually most, people simply aren't beautiful, and Catelynn is one of them.  And by "beautiful," I don't mean getting all dolled up, which is actually saying, "I'm not beautiful, but can be made to appear so."

So what good does it for a demonstrably not beautiful person to tell herself, "I'm beautiful?"  And I mean that especially if she knows she's not--that puts her in the position of knowing something but being told she's wrong.  What good does that do? 

 

And Maci with her "I'm so glad the dad's here now.  I used to have to whip Bentley's ass and hug him at the same time."  So Taylor, the man, can do the ass whipping?  How about neither of you whips anybody's asses?

I don't think it's "above reproach" any more than anything else is above reproach, but as @GreatKazu pointed out, the only reason it's important that it's legal (IMO) is that plenty of crimes, even felonies, are openly committed on this show--child abuse, domestic violence, Matt's stealing, multiple people driving while high and endangering people's lives and the lives of their own children--yet the porn is the issue? It's just not consistent at all. 

I would also personally like to ask Freeman if he's ever *watched* porn and thus contributed to the industry. I wouldn't be in it myself, but I don't pretend that most men and probably at least half of women haven't watched it at some point, and in that way I have an issue with the hypocrisy there. Tyler and Ryan are two of the biggest detractors about porn, but Tyler went to a strip club on camera. Ryan has obviously watched *more* than his share of porn. And Queen Maci and her hipster boyfriend have never ever deigned to watch porn? I sincerely doubt it--she made a barely-clothed twerking video for Instagram and is a mom herself.

I personally think porn is pretty weird and gross, but if you consume something, I just don't personally think you get to knock the people who produce the things you consume. I think we do probably have a porn issue in this country...but that's an issue of everybody who watches, sells, AND participates in it, not just the stars themselves. To me it's like blaming only the prostitutes but not the johns or the pimps or their wives who look the other way. It reminds me of people who love going to McDonald's at 3 AM but then mock the people who work in fast food. But hey, they'll take the convenience when it suits them! And Freeman was all too willing to making $ off of Farrah's notoriety for several seasons. He works at MTV, for God's sake! It's incredibly exploitative and not respectable at all. So I just don't get the logic. It's clearly just to cater to audiences' particular morals, not out of any real problems he sees with it. Their shows constantly feature hookups, strippers, porn, threesomes, blah blah blah.

Just trying to explain my perspective on why it's so weird that they're making a big deal out of the porn thing, not arguing. I respect that everybody has a different take on this issue.

[ReadMeLattice]

Well, that and Farrah and Chelsea seem to be the only two who know how to use a damn condom. Kail, Maci, Jenelle and Bri are out here having 73 soulmates bang them without condoms yet somehow that's ok with MTV...I doubt they get tested for STDs.

[Rebecca]

Apparently for MTV it’s ok for their “stars” to sleep with as many as they want and have babies by any of them (that they don’t care for at all or don’t properly care for) as long as it’s not filmed and there is no profit made from it.

Again, I’m not even a porn fan but I’d rather have planned out sex with a male porn star, where he’s tested and known to be clean and there’s almost zero chance of conception than to have random sex with some dude I met in a club an hour before. And then oh gee, I’m pregnant with his kid that neither of us really want because we didn’t use protection. I know it’s not an either or for most people, including me (lol) but this is what Farrah does versus what Briana did with Lewwwwisssss when she got her oops baby Stella from having unprotected sex with a random. Yet MTV brought Briana on this show, probably for this very reason. Who is trashier? 

Also, I’ve read that it’s wrong to be in porn when the person has children but I think it’s equally as messed up to be filmed doing and saying all the stuff we’ve seen a lot of these girls doing when they have children. Hell, sometimes the horrible stuff filmed is about said children. At least Farrah’s porn doesn’t directly relate to Sophia. I’d argue being on this show and having her mom be on this show is going to be more harmful to Sophia than the porn stuff that Farrah has done. And I think some of the other kids will be even more harmed than Sophia by what they will see on these shows when they’re older.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Rebecca

[ReadMeLattice]

15 hours ago, Rebecca said:

Apparently for MTV it’s ok for their “stars” to sleep with as many as they want and have babies by any of them (that they don’t care for at all or don’t properly care for) as long as it’s not filmed and there is no profit made from it.

Again, I’m not even a porn fan but I’d rather have planned out sex with a male porn star, where he’s tested and known to be clean and there’s almost zero chance of conception than to have random sex with some dude I met in a club an hour before. And then oh gee, I’m pregnant with his kid that neither of us really want because we didn’t use protection. I know it’s not an either or for most people, including me (lol) but this is what Farrah does versus what Briana did with Lewwwwisssss when she got her oops baby Stella from having unprotected sex with a random. Yet MTV brought Briana on this show, probably for this very reason. Who is trashier? 

Also, I’ve read that it’s wrong to be in porn when the person has children but I think it’s equally as messed up to be filmed doing and saying all the stuff we’ve seen a lot of these girls doing when they have children. Hell, sometimes the horrible stuff filmed is about said children. At least Farrah’s porn doesn’t directly relate to Sophia. I’d argue being on this show and having her mom be on this show is going to be more harmful to Sophia than the porn stuff that Farrah has done. And I think some of the other kids will be even more harmed than Sophia by what they will see on these shows when they’re older.

Seriously, I can't even imagine what, say, Bentley or Jace or Carly is going to feel when they watch these episodes when they're older...it seemed harmless when they were babies but some of them are about to reach double digits. 

[kira28]

 Unpopular opinion here but I hope Farrah wins her lawsuit as frivolous as it may be. I'm not a Farrah fan. Could care less that she did porn. It's legal. However MTV has stood by and watched children being neglected and abused, has filmed Janelle shooting up heroin and filmed her clearly high while taking care of an infant. They have stood by and filmed Leah obviously on drugs and nodding off while her kids are unsupervised. They have filmed Leah fresh from a drug run while her kids cry in the back seat that they are hungry. Filmed Ryan nodding off from drugs while driving and never intervened. He could have killed Someone!! Filmed April and cate doing drugs while driving.  Kail attacked  Javi during filming and hit jo. And filed fake pfas on both guys. The fake pfa filed to control javi cost him the opportunity to have a career as a police office. Kail is an abuser and so is Amber. So MTV has no problem giving paychecks for druggies and perpetrators of domestic violence but if you do porn u dont measure up to their high standards lol.  And yes Farrah is difficult to work with. But look at what Janelle s crew puts up with. Psycho David and threats and fights and domestic violence. Farrah is a huge bitch but she is not breaking any laws. And she makes sure her daughter is taken care of unlike everyone else on this shit show aside from Chelsea, Gary and Jo  . Maci tries but I have a feeling her bud light gets more attention than her kids. Just cancel the show. We don't need to see Tyler's angst and all the made up storylines. Maci as just saying she had a miscarriage but now it's she's been on birth control. She can't even keep her fake stories straight. 

If cate really did have a miscarriage  she has my sympathy. But I'm going to hell because when she was saying the I'm beautiful I'm smart I'm strong mantra I was thinking no sweetie u are definitely not any of those things. 

As far as her suicide ideations I call bullshit. I believe it's just for attention. When Someoen wants to kill themselves they just do it. They don't call their film crew crying so the situation can be filmed for ratings. Cate thrives on attention. She thought a baby would bring her attention. She doestn even give a shit about the sweet little girl she has. I had an ex that made a huge deal about how he wanted to kill himself. I left work in the middle of the day without telling anyone to try to stop him. He told me exactly how he was going to end His life he made me watch him tell him 6 year old daughter goodbye. He told me he'd made arrangements for a will. He was crying saying he was worthless. He announced His intent on social media had friends and family calling him.. I was scared to death. I though he'd actually do it. I frantically called his friends his sister etc. His sister told me her brother had done thus once before and it's for attention. I didn't believe her. But she was right, the next day he was fine after receiving so much attention from everyone. People who want to end it do it quietly because they don't want anyone to stop them. I'm not saying cate isn't hurting. I'm sure she is. But she's draining  the life out of Tyler with her over dramatics. 

 

[heatherchandler]

On 3/1/2018 at 5:55 PM, Bridget said:

My first thought too!

"Heed! Here! Now!" (Scottish spelling of head)

"It's like an orange on a toothpick!"

 

He'll be cryin' himself to sleep on his huge pill-a!

 

15 minutes ago, kira28 said:

 Cate thrives on attention. She thought a baby would bring her attention. She doestn even give a shit about the sweet little girl she has. 

 

 

Did anyone notice when Tyler and Cate are getting into the car to leave for the airport - Cate says to her producer, "I just miss my baby."  And she replies, "well don't worry, they will be visiting you soon!"  Cate looks perplexed, and then realizes that the producer means Nova (her baby!).  Cate was speaking of the baby she lost, and seems to have forgotten that she alsready has one at home.

I actually feel a lot of sympathy for Cate, I think she is trying to figure out how to have a "good life," with a lot of abuse and trauma coming up from her past.  It's tough to work through that, especially when you don't have the tools, or really even know what a good life is.  

[druzy]

[teapot]

9 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

 

 

 

Did anyone notice when Tyler and Cate are getting into the car to leave for the airport - Cate says to her producer, "I just miss my baby."  And she replies, "well don't worry, they will be visiting you soon!"  Cate looks perplexed, and then realizes that the producer means Nova (her baby!).  Cate was speaking of the baby she lost, and seems to have forgotten that she alsready has one at home.

I actually feel a lot of sympathy for Cate, I think she is trying to figure out how to have a "good life," with a lot of abuse and trauma coming up from her past.  It's tough to work through that, especially when you don't have the tools, or really even know what a good life is.  

that's so sad.  I know the circumstances are (vastly) different, but omg poor Nova...she's probably going to have the same "do they love me?" kind of abandonment issues that Cate has.

[GreatKazu]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

 

Did anyone notice when Tyler and Cate are getting into the car to leave for the airport - Cate says to her producer, "I just miss my baby."  And she replies, "well don't worry, they will be visiting you soon!"  Cate looks perplexed, and then realizes that the producer means Nova (her baby!).  Cate was speaking of the baby she lost, and seems to have forgotten that she alsready has one at home.

I actually feel a lot of sympathy for Cate, I think she is trying to figure out how to have a "good life," with a lot of abuse and trauma coming up from her past.  It's tough to work through that, especially when you don't have the tools, or really even know what a good life is.  

I caught that the second time I watched the episode. 

All roads lead back to Carly.

I have felt for the longest time the loss of Carly is the root of Cate's problems although my posts have pretty much been about Cate seeking Tyler's love while putting on the drama and doing things for the show. However, it wasn't until @Lm2162 mentioned how the loss of this baby (assuming there was one as I am still not convinced) was akin to losing Carly again, did I really see how Cate has been trying to do anything and everything to fix that gaping hole over the loss of Carly. Cate has never accepted the adoption of her child. Nova is a constant reminder of that child that was given up. Nova is not fulfilling the unrealistic expectations of Cate. She will never  never measure up and will never be as good as the child Cate signed away. 

This is just my opinion - Even if Cate was mistaken or blatantly lying about being pregnant, it is still painful to her only because she is trying to deal with her unresolved grief the only way she knows how which is to do something or bring another baby into her life thinking it will fulfill her and stop the pain she feels. Everything up until now has been a temporary fix. When one thing doesn't work, on to the next one.

It wouldn't be surprising to me if she lied about being pregnant. The girl does have mental issues. Telling people she is pregnant would bring her much-needed attention not only from her spouse and family, but from her fans. I am thinking something similar to Munchausen Syndrome. Coming to the realization that she can't go on with her lie or seeing how Tyler is not especially happy about having another baby, she waits for her period to start, makes a mess in the bathroom and claims a miscarriage. She likely had the breakdown due to another "loss" which is in reality the reminder of her lost Carly or she needed to claim she had to go to rehab as a way to get  away from Tyler who may have begun questioning her about the pregnancy or both. Maybe Tyler began questioning when she told him about her pregnancy. I know we had questions about the timing and how soon she was able to conceive after having her IUD removed. I do think she is torn up inside over the loss of Carly and that is the root of her problems which in turn bring on the suicidal thoughts. I don't believe she has ever really been honest about the Carly situation with the medical professionals at these rehab visits.  

I also agree with @kira28 and others who have pointed out that a part of it is that Cate just thrives on the attention the cameras and her minions give her. The famewhore attention. It is almost like a drug to her as it gives her a different kind of high. One can desire attention in more ways than one and for different reasons. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by GreatKazu

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I think the loss of Carly is the core issue Cate can't "get over," as well.  As Rust Cohle says in S1 True Detective, ""Time is a flat circle. Everything we have done or will do we will do over and over and over again- forever."  Cate is going to go through losing Carly over & over again for the rest of her life.

Do we ever get over things like death?  Or get closure in an adoption? I don't know that getting over something/closure is really a thing.  Time makes things better, but great losses are always a part of us.  I know from time to time losses I've experienced (friends, uncles, etc...not ones as "dramatic" as losing a child, spouse, or parent, for example), come back years later out of nowhere for me to deal with again.  From what I've read/heard from other birth mothers, placing a child for adoption is a loss like a death in many ways, and something you don't ever get over or get closure from.  You just learn to deal with it better.  She has to learn how to respond/manage her reactions to going through that loss over & over.  I wish she'd be able to get help from a therapist who perhaps had placed a child for adoption herself or a group for birth mothers that was NOT run by Bethany or an adoption agency, where she could talk freely about the real issues with the adoption/Bethany/Tyler/the adoption industry/etc.  I'm sure the years of being a spokesperson for Bethany/adoption also prevented her from really admitting to any negative feelings she had about it and those have started to come up more since she's no longer on the Bethany speaking pay roll.  I also think being able to talk to other women who have placed babies for adoption (who won't pretend it's all rainbows and sunshine like at a Bethany retreat) away from Tyler and with 100% confidence that he'll never hear what she says would be beneficial.  Yeah, the adoption was the best thing for Carly for sure.  But it's also a loss that Catelynn is going to be experiencing for the rest of her life. 

(Also, thank ya'll for indulging me while I quote from my favorite show - S1 True Detective - on this snark board. I love when my interests can collide. LOL.) 

Edited March 5, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[ghoulina]

49 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

As Rust Cohle says in S1 True Detective, ""Time is a flat circle. Everything we have done or will do we will do over and over and over again- forever." 

I will love you forever for this. One of the best damned seasons of TV. Ever. 

And I agree that we don't ever truly "get over" huge losses/traumas. We have to learn to live with it. Cate is not "living". She's just existing. 

[GreatKazu]

Quote

Do we ever get over things like death?  Or get closure in an adoption? I don't know that getting over something/closure is really a thing. 

I don't believe we really have closure. It is more about acceptance. Getting to the point of accepting what has happened.  I was given some great advice from a mental health professional about this very thing when dealing with an unexpected death. He told me it is not about how much time passes, but what we do in that time to help the grieving process. 

I certainly don't believe Cate has done anything productive or healthy that has helped her along with her grieving only because she has not accepted the adoption. My belief is, she didn't want to give up that baby, so how can she accept something she didn't want to do to begin with? All those speeches she gave (that she was paid for) and all the talk about how wonderful adoption is (it can be when done for the right reasons and people are prepared) were done solely to continue the façade (and earn an paycheck) by a person who was not happy with her own decision to give up her child. 

If our belief is that Cate didn't want the adoption to happen, then everything since then has been one big lie. All that she did hindered her grief, it put a halt to anything productive she could have been doing to get help for her loss, and all that we are watching play out is a young lady who lives her life "doing over" as you posted. She has not moved forward from that day. And she continues the lie by not being honest about her loss. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by GreatKazu

[teapot]

3 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I don't believe we really have closure. It is more about acceptance. Getting to the point of accepting what has happened.  I was given some great advice from a mental health professional about this very thing when dealing with an unexpected death. He told me it is not about how much time passes, but what we do in that time to help the grieving process. 

I certainly don't believe Cate has done anything productive or healthy that has helped her along with her grieving only because she has not accepted the adoption. My belief is, she didn't want to give up that baby, so how can she accept something she didn't want to do to begin with? All those speeches she gave (that she was paid for) and all the talk about how wonderful adoption is (it can be when done for the right reasons and people are prepared) were done solely to continue the façade (and earn an paycheck), was done by a person who was not happy with her own decision to give up her child. 

If our belief is that Cate didn't want the adoption to happen, then everything since then has been one big lie. All that she did hindered her grief, it put a halt to anything productive she could have been doing to get help for her loss, and all that we are watching play out is a young lady who lives her life "doing over" as you posted. She has not moved forward from that day. And she continues the lie by not being honest about her loss. 

What confuses me is how little she dotes on Nova.  She was at April's more often than at home in her infancy, and it seems like Ty does most of the heavy lifting, even when Cate's at home.

I know that I can't relate.  And that it all seems very black and white, like, oh you wanted to be a mom?  K, here ya go, love *this* little girl, then.  It's obviously nowhere near that easy!

[GreatKazu]

13 minutes ago, teapot said:

What confuses me is how little she dotes on Nova.  She was at April's more often than at home in her infancy, and it seems like Ty does most of the heavy lifting, even when Cate's at home.

I know that I can't relate.  And that it all seems very black and white, like, oh you wanted to be a mom?  K, here ya go, love *this* little girl, then.  It's obviously nowhere near that easy!

In my opinion, Nova is a reminder of the fact Cate had Nova to hold her relationship with Tyler together. She is also a reminder of the one child that got away.  Nova's birth was supposed to come with unrealistic expectations. Nova never brought on the healing that Cate expected to have happen. 

I came across this from an article about parents who have a child to replace the death of another child. It seems to fit Cate's scenario:

In the extreme case scenario, the replacement child is a constant cruel reminder to one or both of the parents of the loss of the much loved child, the “angel”, the perfect one. In its extreme, the replacement child is not only criticized, judged and found lacking, but may even be ignored and made to feel worthless and unloved.

[teapot]

2 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

In my opinion, Nova is a reminder of the fact Cate had Nova to hold her relationship with Tyler together. She is also a reminder of the one child that got away.  Nova's birth was supposed to come with unrealistic expectations. Nova never brought on the healing that Cate expected to have happen. 

I came across this from an article about parents who have a child to replace the death of another child. It seems to fit Cate's scenario:

In the extreme case scenario, the replacement child is a constant cruel reminder to one or both of the parents of the loss of the much loved child, the “angel”, the perfect one. In its extreme, the replacement child is not only criticized, judged and found lacking, but may even be ignored and made to feel worthless and unloved.

FREE NOVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My heart breaks for her;  she's adorable and she seems so happy all of the time.  I can just imagine how she'd thrive in a loving family!  it's just so sad!

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

23 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I don't think it's "above reproach" any more than anything else is above reproach, but as @GreatKazu pointed out, the only reason it's important that it's legal (IMO) is that plenty of crimes, even felonies, are openly committed on this show--child abuse, domestic violence, Matt's stealing, multiple people driving while high and endangering people's lives and the lives of their own children--yet the porn is the issue? It's just not consistent at all. 

I would also personally like to ask Freeman if he's ever *watched* porn and thus contributed to the industry. I wouldn't be in it myself, but I don't pretend that most men and probably at least half of women haven't watched it at some point, and in that way I have an issue with the hypocrisy there. Tyler and Ryan are two of the biggest detractors about porn, but Tyler went to a strip club on camera. Ryan has obviously watched *more* than his share of porn. And Queen Maci and her hipster boyfriend have never ever deigned to watch porn? I sincerely doubt it--she made a barely-clothed twerking video for Instagram and is a mom herself.

I personally think porn is pretty weird and gross, but if you consume something, I just don't personally think you get to knock the people who produce the things you consume. I think we do probably have a porn issue in this country...but that's an issue of everybody who watches, sells, AND participates in it, not just the stars themselves. To me it's like blaming only the prostitutes but not the johns or the pimps or their wives who look the other way. It reminds me of people who love going to McDonald's at 3 AM but then mock the people who work in fast food. But hey, they'll take the convenience when it suits them! And Freeman was all too willing to making $ off of Farrah's notoriety for several seasons. He works at MTV, for God's sake! It's incredibly exploitative and not respectable at all. So I just don't get the logic. It's clearly just to cater to audiences' particular morals, not out of any real problems he sees with it. Their shows constantly feature hookups, strippers, porn, threesomes, blah blah blah.

Just trying to explain my perspective on why it's so weird that they're making a big deal out of the porn thing, not arguing. I respect that everybody has a different take on this issue.

Co-signing this.

Also, a girl who gets pregnant as a teenager has a far higher chance of ending up working in the adult industry/as a sex worker than she does getting a reality TV show gig that pays her six figures per season.  If anything, Farrah's "job" is much more realistic for a teen mom than getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for sitting on your couch (and/or running online clothing businesses selling crappy fringed toddler clothes, pocket t-shirts, or online "haute boutiques"). 

People work in porn. It's legal, legitimate work, and while many people don't aspire to it, the way our society demonizes it and refuses to talk about people who work in the industry as real people (rather than "less-thans") means its easier for the women (and men) who work in that industry to be taken advantage of and mistreated. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

25 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I came across this from an article about parents who have a child to replace the death of another child. It seems to fit Cate's scenario:

In the extreme case scenario, the replacement child is a constant cruel reminder to one or both of the parents of the loss of the much loved child, the “angel”, the perfect one. In its extreme, the replacement child is not only criticized, judged and found lacking, but may even be ignored and made to feel worthless and unloved.

I think this is likely.

Also, I think we have to remember the childhood Catelynn likely had.  She probably thinks she's killing it as Nova's mom because she & Tyler aren't beating each other in front of her, the lights aren't out for non-payment, stranger hook-ups aren't being brought home around her, she's fed, she's clothed, her parents aren't having to stay with relatives after an eviction, she isn't seeing her parents carted away by the police, she isn't visiting a parent in jail, etc.  The bar is set really low. Catelynn was just trying to survive her childhood. She probably saw stable homes and just wanted that basic stability she saw.  She probably never even got past seeing that and looked into what else makes good parents good parents aside from meeting the kids' basic needs and giving them a level of stability she never got.  My guess is she thinks because Nova has a house, dad, food, clothing, and isn't getting beat by her mom's boyfriend (like Cate was), that Nova has a pretty perfect childhood.  When you grow up in such chaos, you just want that "stability" of knowing the basics will be met.  I doubt it has ever crossed her mind that she ignores Nova, etc. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[guilfoyleatpp]

50 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I will love you forever for this. One of the best damned seasons of TV. Ever. 

And I agree that we don't ever truly "get over" huge losses/traumas. We have to learn to live with it. Cate is not "living". She's just existing. 

All of this. And can I just add that I love the places we go in this discussion board?! I do. My sister died (we were two years apart). It was bad for me. She was my older sister and loomed large in my life from birth. We were adults at the time. It was fucking tragic and complicated in so many ways. The most helpful thing I can recall from that was a passage that essentially said that we never get over losses. There's a giant hole that you eventually learn to negotiate around instead of running, falling, jumping into it. It never goes away, gets smaller, or less deep...you just eventually get better at unintentionally falling in. 

 

Just now, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I think this is likely.

Also, I think we have to remember the childhood Catelynn likely has.  She probably thinks she's killing it as Nova's mom because she & Tyler aren't beating each other in front of her, the lights aren't out for non-payment, stranger hook-ups aren't being brought home around her, she's fed, she's clothed, her parents aren't having to stay with relatives after an eviction, she isn't seeing her parents carted away by the police, she isn't visiting a parent in jail, etc.  The bar is set really low. Catelynn was just trying to survive her childhood. She probably saw stable homes and just wanted that basic stability she saw in other homes.  She probably never even got past seeing that and looked into what else makes good parents good parents aside from meeting the kids' basic needs and giving them a level of stability she never got.  

THIS! Compared to her childhood with April, she probably does think that she's killing it. Mr. Guilfoyle had an unfortunate childhood. When we first got pregnant and throughout the first couple years of our boy's life, we had to adjust his behavioral expectations of HIMSELF. We talked a lot. My parents and brother's family still model excellent parental behavior. Mr. Guilfoyle's sisters and brothers are more in the chaotic and lacking stability vein. It's interesting to see how your experiences rub off on you in practice. Even in chatting with and observing other parents...it can tell you a lot about how their own childhoods were. 

And a lot of times people succeed (or fail) despite their own upbringings. There is still hope for Nova. And Cate. I do think that Cate would have been better served to wait until closer to 30 for the child she planned to raise herself.  If she had received adequate counseling she might have realized that.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I just have to interject that IMO, the only voice of reason on this show when it came to Farrah's foray into porn has been April.  April, Cate's mom of boogie-town-pig-buying-trips.  April, who married Butch.  April, who has made a LOT of bad decisions. But I think April also gets real life and gets that you sometimes have to do jobs that aren't as glamorous as "adoption advocate," "clothing designer," and "reality star" when you have a kid and want to buy stuff (including in April's case, drugs and booze, but hey....).

When they mentioned Farrah's porn film when TMOG first came back, April just smiled (in a non-judgmental way; it was more of a knowing way) and said "A girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do."  She's probably known people who worked in the sex industry in one way or another because they did what they had to do.  I think April might even have some low-key respect for Farrah for you, know, actually working to keep up her lifestyle, even if it was in porn. I also don't think April puts on any airs despite being on reality TV.  She at least knows not to act like she's above someone because they did porn when she has a plethora of bad decisions in her past.  Too bad Cate and the other girls can't be the same way. April knows what's up. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[GreatKazu]

33 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Co-signing this.

Also, a girl who gets pregnant as a teenager has a far higher chance of ending up working in the adult industry/as a sex worker than she does getting a reality TV show gig that pays her six figures per season.  If anything, Farrah's "job" is much more realistic for a teen mom than getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for sitting on your couch (and/or running online clothing businesses selling crappy fringed toddler clothes, pocket t-shirts, or online "haute boutiques"). 

People work in porn. It's legal, legitimate work, and while many people don't aspire to it, the way our society demonizes it and refuses to talk about people who work in the industry as real people (rather than "less-thans") means its easier for the women (and men) who work in that industry to be taken advantage of and mistreated. 

 

Preach.

Even Drew said it on the reunion show that Farrah entering in the adult entertainment field is par for the course for some young, single mothers who are in need of supporting themselves and a child.  He mentioned, I believe, the fact that some  young mothers  become strippers as a way to have an income. I can't recall his words to a tee, but I do recall feeling he finally said something that not only supported Farrah, but he said it in such a way that indicated adults are being scrutinized for entering into the adult business when they shouldn't be.  At that time the porn was made, TM was not on the air. There were no plans for its return. 

Even if Farrah were to have gone the porn route during filming, she would be capitalizing on her "fame" the way the other girls do with their online businesses and other gigs. Would C&T have ever been asked to be on Couples Therapy? Would Jenelle have ever been able to establish a make-up line without her infamous name? Maci is now filming as a special guest on Naked & Afraid. Would she have been cast for the show if not for Teen Mom? 

When April was the voice of reason re Farrah's porn? lol That was all kinds of awesome. I think she may have resorted to doing a few things to earn some drug money.  She isn't about to judge someone like Farrah and I really respected her for not going down that path like Tyler and Butch. 

To quote Missy Elliot, "Just make sure you ahead of the game." 

I also agree that Cate probably feels she is the best parent ever to Nova only because she compares it to her own childhood growing up. C&T are of the opinion that feeding Nova, having "five cars" and a Crunchwrap home is all that should matter and therefore, Nova has the perfect life.  Any and all the stimulation Nova gets is from her weeks at April's house. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by GreatKazu

[kira28]

7 hours ago, teapot said:

What confuses me is how little she dotes on Nova.  She was at April's more often than at home in her infancy, and it seems like Ty does most of the heavy lifting, even when Cate's at home.

I know that I can't relate.  And that it all seems very black and white, like, oh you wanted to be a mom?  K, here ya go, love *this* little girl, then.  It's obviously nowhere near that easy!

I think cate  is one of the people who has no real interest in being a parent. Sort of like Janelle and amber. If Tyler wasn't there that poor little girl would be a permanent fixture at April's house. I think they have idealized Carly as this perfect golden child. She has a great life she probably does well in school and shes beautiful. C and T were not around for normal life with Carly, the tantrums the time she was tired or sick. Her real parents Brandon and Teresa were there for all that. Cate got pretty pictures of a smiling Happy baby and later a smiling perfect little girl . the only exposure they had to Carly was yearly visits that are no more so they never did really know the daughter they gave up for adoption. In their minds I'm sure she is the perfect child. Unfortunately for nova no child is perfect and she will never live up to their unrealistic  expectations. So cate really doesn't have much use for nova. She does not act like nova is an important part of her life. The child is ignored or left with addicts as babysitters. Cate is lazy and doesn't look to do anything thst requires effort. IMO she has no  business   having any more children because children do require alot if effort.  C and T got tons of attention from giving up Carly. Their minions rallied around them when they posted pics of Carly and I doubt they get that kind of attention from pics of nova. Poor sweet girl will always live in Carlys shadow  

Edited March 6, 2018 by kira28

[Rebecca]

I read that Catelynn found out she was pregnant at 3 weeks and miscarried at 6 weeks, does anyone know if that’s accurate? I’m not trying to deny anyone their feelings but her reaction, if that timeline is true, seems a little over the top to me. Most people don’t even know they’re pregnant at those times. I know I’m verging into controversial territory but I just don’t understand her saying she “misses her baby” ... I totally understand why the producer thought she meant Nova. I don’t doubt she has many true issues and I don’t want to think it but I think some posters are right, she loves the attention that falling apart gives her.

I can’t subscribe to the idea that all suicidal people go about it without telling anyone their plans, sadly I know that’s not the case from experience. But, I did wonder about Catelynn...especially with her repeating nonchalantly about how she was “thinking about every way to kill herself” all day or whatever. Next time, instead of going off to plush rehab they should immediately take her to the local ER and 5150. I don’t think most suicidal people are fine to wait around for people to find them a cross country rehab facility to fly off to. It’s almost as if knowing she was going back to rehab made her desire to die go away.

I feel dirty about this post but I had to let it out.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Rebecca

[CofCinci]

14 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

 

I read that Catelynn found out she was pregnant at 3 weeks and miscarried at 6 weeks, does anyone know if that’s accurate? I’m not trying to deny anyone their feelings but her reaction, if that timeline is true, seems a little over the top to me. Most people don’t even know they’re pregnant at those times. I know I’m verging into controversial territory but I just don’t understand her saying she “misses her baby” ... I totally understand why the producer thought she meant Nova. I don’t doubt she has many true issues and I don’t want to think it but I think some posters are right, she loves the attention that falling apart gives her.

 

I believe it was Mirena Syndrome — which is why these famewhores didn’t have any footage. 

(I do not mean to be insensitive to those here who lost via miscarriage. ) 

[AirQuotes]

8 hours ago, CofCinci said:

I believe it was Mirena Syndrome — which is why these famewhores didn’t have any footage. 

(I do not mean to be insensitive to those here who lost via miscarriage. ) 

I'm with you. 

[Marilee]

Quote

All I know about them is that they're not the same as service animals, so keep your fucking emotional support alpaca out of CVS.

And with that,  this board officially owns my ass!! You guys are awesome!

This is my first time to post but I read here all the time. I caught up on this season today while I’m home recovering from dental surgery. Seriously, you guys have some great discussions and I get a lot of food for thought here. I haven’t posted before since most often someone else has said exactly what I’m thinking only way more eloquently than I could’ve lol

Ok, carry on! I just wanted to pop up and say this made me really laugh for the first time today! Hope I made sense cause, Percocet.

[Marilee]

On 3/5/2018 at 7:30 AM, Lm2162 said:

I can't even imagine what, say, Bentley or Jace or Carly is going to feel when they watch these episodes when they're older...

I’m going to venture to guess that Carly will be thanking God a million times over for her parents, Brandon and Teresa. 

Jace will hopefully see just how selfish and how much of a lying trash bag Jenelle is by filling his head with all the bs about how she only gave him to Barb to raise until she was able to provide for him because she loved him sooo much. Then cut off contact himself.

Bentley will probably just be apathetic to it like his Daddy and go shotgun another Bud Light with his Mama.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Marilee

[TimeToCancelTM]

On 3/5/2018 at 10:40 AM, GreatKazu said:

I caught that the second time I watched the episode. 

All roads lead back to Carly.

I have felt for the longest time the loss of Carly is the root of Cate's problems although my posts have pretty much been about Cate seeking Tyler's love while putting on the drama and doing things for the show. However, it wasn't until @Lm2162 mentioned how the loss of this baby (assuming there was one as I am still not convinced) was akin to losing Carly again, did I really see how Cate has been trying to do anything and everything to fix that gaping hole over the loss of Carly. Cate has never accepted the adoption of her child. Nova is a constant reminder of that child that was given up. Nova is not fulfilling the unrealistic expectations of Cate. She will never  never measure up and will never be as good as the child Cate signed away. 

This is just my opinion - Even if Cate was mistaken or blatantly lying about being pregnant, it is still painful to her only because she is trying to deal with her unresolved grief the only way she knows how which is to do something or bring another baby into her life thinking it will fulfill her and stop the pain she feels. Everything up until now has been a temporary fix. When one thing doesn't work, on to the next one.

It wouldn't be surprising to me if she lied about being pregnant. The girl does have mental issues. Telling people she is pregnant would bring her much-needed attention not only from her spouse and family, but from her fans. I am thinking something similar to Munchausen Syndrome. Coming to the realization that she can't go on with her lie or seeing how Tyler is not especially happy about having another baby, she waits for her period to start, makes a mess in the bathroom and claims a miscarriage. She likely had the breakdown due to another "loss" which is in reality the reminder of her lost Carly or she needed to claim she had to go to rehab as a way to get  away from Tyler who may have begun questioning her about the pregnancy or both. Maybe Tyler began questioning when she told him about her pregnancy. I know we had questions about the timing and how soon she was able to conceive after having her IUD removed. I do think she is torn up inside over the loss of Carly and that is the root of her problems which in turn bring on the suicidal thoughts. I don't believe she has ever really been honest about the Carly situation with the medical professionals at these rehab visits.  

I also agree with @kira28 and others who have pointed out that a part of it is that Cate just thrives on the attention the cameras and her minions give her. The famewhore attention. It is almost like a drug to her as it gives her a different kind of high. One can desire attention in more ways than one and for different reasons. 

^^^THIS^^ on point with your entire post KAZ!!! 

[TimeToCancelTM]

On 3/5/2018 at 1:28 PM, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I just have to interject that IMO, the only voice of reason on this show when it came to Farrah's foray into porn has been April.  April, Cate's mom of boogie-town-pig-buying-trips.  April, who married Butch.  April, who has made a LOT of bad decisions. But I think April also gets real life and gets that you sometimes have to do jobs that aren't as glamorous as "adoption advocate," "clothing designer," and "reality star" when you have a kid and want to buy stuff (including in April's case, drugs and booze, but hey....).

When they mentioned Farrah's porn film when TMOG first came back, April just smiled (in a non-judgmental way; it was more of a knowing way) and said "A girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do."  She's probably known people who worked in the sex industry in one way or another because they did what they had to do.  I think April might even have some low-key respect for Farrah for you, know, actually working to keep up her lifestyle, even if it was in porn. I also don't think April puts on any airs despite being on reality TV.  She at least knows not to act like she's above someone because they did porn when she has a plethora of bad decisions in her past.  Too bad Cate and the other girls can't be the same way. April knows what's up. 

A million fucking likes for this!!!! I know exactly what scene youre talking about and i can see that smile she made from here! And it most defitnetly wasnt judgemental. April knows whats up... im sure shes been around the blade a couple times...and to quote her again..." A girls gotta do whatta girls gotta do" 

[MaggieG]

On 3/5/2018 at 4:28 PM, GreatKazu said:

Preach.

Even Drew said it on the reunion show that Farrah entering in the adult entertainment field is par for the course for some young, single mothers who are in need of supporting themselves and a child.  He mentioned, I believe, the fact that some  young mothers  become strippers as a way to have an income. I can't recall his words to a tee, but I do recall feeling he finally said something that not only supported Farrah, but he said it in such a way that indicated adults are being scrutinized for entering into the adult business when they shouldn't be.  At that time the porn was made, TM was not on the air. There were no plans for its return. 

Even if Farrah were to have gone the porn route during filming, she would be capitalizing on her "fame" the way the other girls do with their online businesses and other gigs. Would C&T have ever been asked to be on Couples Therapy? Would Jenelle have ever been able to establish a make-up line without her infamous name? Maci is now filming as a special guest on Naked & Afraid. Would she have been cast for the show if not for Teen Mom? 

When April was the voice of reason re Farrah's porn? lol That was all kinds of awesome. I think she may have resorted to doing a few things to earn some drug money.  She isn't about to judge someone like Farrah and I really respected her for not going down that path like Tyler and Butch. 

To quote Missy Elliot, "Just make sure you ahead of the game." 

I also agree that Cate probably feels she is the best parent ever to Nova only because she compares it to her own childhood growing up. C&T are of the opinion that feeding Nova, having "five cars" and a Crunchwrap home is all that should matter and therefore, Nova has the perfect life.  Any and all the stimulation Nova gets is from her weeks at April's house. 

 

Hold up. What?! I totally missed this news! 

ETA: I just visited Maci's thread and saw the article. Jeez, I stay away for one weekend....

Edited March 6, 2018 by MaggieG

[TimeToCancelTM]

21 hours ago, Rebecca said:

I read that Catelynn found out she was pregnant at 3 weeks and miscarried at 6 weeks, does anyone know if that’s accurate? I’m not trying to deny anyone their feelings but her reaction, if that timeline is true, seems a little over the top to me. Most people don’t even know they’re pregnant at those times. I know I’m verging into controversial territory but I just don’t understand her saying she “misses her baby” ... I totally understand why the producer thought she meant Nova. I don’t doubt she has many true issues and I don’t want to think it but I think some posters are right, she loves the attention that falling apart gives her.

I can’t subscribe to the idea that all suicidal people go about it without telling anyone their plans, sadly I know that’s not the case from experience. But, I did wonder about Catelynn...especially with her repeating nonchalantly about how she was “thinking about every way to kill herself” all day or whatever. Next time, instead of going off to plush rehab they should immediately take her to the local ER and 5150. I don’t think most suicidal people are fine to wait around for people to find them a cross country rehab facility to fly off to. It’s almost as if knowing she was going back to rehab made her desire to die go away.

I feel dirty about this post but I had to let it out.

I love your entire post!! Maybe it makes me dirtier...lol ill go pack my basket for hell now....

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, JuliesMommy said:

I love your entire post!! Maybe it makes me dirtier...lol ill go pack my basket for hell now....

Scoot over, sister. I'll bring the snacks. 

[TheRealT]

On 3/5/2018 at 3:21 PM, teapot said:

What confuses me is how little she dotes on Nova.  She was at April's more often than at home in her infancy, and it seems like Ty does most of the heavy lifting, even when Cate's at home.

I know that I can't relate.  And that it all seems very black and white, like, oh you wanted to be a mom?  K, here ya go, love *this* little girl, then.  It's obviously nowhere near that easy!

I think that in her conscious/intellectual mind Cate wants to be a mom, even to a bunch of kids, and I believe that she has organically maternal aspects to her personality. BUT, I think that, in reality, Cate isn't necessarily disposed to be a good parent. She has a lot of emotional problems (largely untreated as she has lived her life thus far). On top of that, she hasn't had good models of parenting/adulthood and she lacks the intellectual curiosity, initiative, ambition, etc., etc. to stretch herself to learn how to be a good parent. As others have said, she probably doesn't even realize that she needs to work on herself as a parent because (as Cate sees it) Nova's childhood is soooooo much better than hers.

And, in reality, Cate struggles to get through most days just holding it together on a basic level. If she hadn't had the MTV money, she would have been forced to work normal jobs and deal with life in other basic ways, which probably would have been better for her mental health. Even the structure of showing up for their job at 7-11 because they won't be able to pay their rent otherwise can be a real help to people dealing with depression and anxiety, especially in the long term when habits like getting up every day and going to work can become their "normal," versus hanging out on their couches self-medicating  and perseverating on random things that worry them all day every day.

Even if (what I assume is) Catelynn's fantasy had happened and she had kept Carly and lived "happily ever after" with Ty and the MTV money, I'm not sure she would have been a much better mom to Carly than she is to Nova (by some people's estimation). Not because she doesn't love Carly/Nova, but because she's limited in her ability to parent for the aforementioned reasons.

Edited March 7, 2018 by TheRealT

[GreatKazu]

Quote

Even if (what I assume is) Catelynn's fantasy had happened and she had kept Carly and lived "happily ever after" with Ty and the MTV money, I'm not sure she would have been a much better mom to Carly than she is to Nova (by some people's estimation). Not because she doesn't love Carly/Nova, but because she's limited in her ability to parent for the aforementioned reasons.

For sure. That is why we are always posting how Carly will watch this show one day and realize how she dodged a bullet. She will watch Nova's life and she will tell herself, "That could have been me."  Yes, it could have been her because Cate would have been the same non-doting parent to her as she is now to Nova. When people show you who they are, believe them. Thank you Maya Angelou. 

[MargeGunderson]

I think Cate wants a bunch of kids because they represent unconditional love to her. Her kids will always love her, no matter what, and will never leave her. That's what she's looking for. 

[Chris Knight]

I feel no pity whatsoever for Cate. She needs to snap the hell out of it, and keep things in perspective. Carly didn't die - she's living a fabulous life with B&T. I look at parents who have tragically lost children thru illness or accident, and those are the people who seek comfort and closure. Carly is fine, Catelynn

 Move on !